| Whenever I recommend an old game to a friend and say "oh you can play it with this or that emulator", they always say something about how emulation is supposedly a really complicated process and they don't think they could do it. Where does this idea come from exactly? In my experience it's barely ever more complicated than "download the emulator, open it and choose the game you want to play", it takes maybe 2 minutes at most. You might have to find and download a bios file from somewhere else sometimes which can be annoying, but even that doesn't seem like that much effort to me. I've been thinking about it because I had to set up Sega Saturn emulation for myself just recently and it was an absolute pain, I went through about 5 or 6 emulators before I found one (Bizhawk) that eventually worked, and even that one took a bit to get right. Once I was done, it hit me that the whole process was probably what those sorts of people think emulating an easier system like the SNES or GBA is like, but I doubt the type of person who's never used any emulator before at all has ever tried setting one up for the Saturn of all things, so that can't have been what gave them the idea it was hard. Where does this come from? Are they just stupid, or is there more to it? |
 <-- the guy |
| I think a lot of console gamers never really tried to learn how file manager works on windows/linux despite being very basic. Emulation is just a test of knowing what the accepted file formats are per type of emulation like .zip/.iso. .rar almost always needs extracted. |
 |
Reply to rohan121
I think a lot of console gamers never really tried to learn how file manager works on windows/linux despite being very basic. Emulation is just a test of knowing what the accepted file formats are per type of emulation like .zip/.iso. .rar almost always needs extracted.
| @rohan121 Ah yeah true, that's probably part of it. There's also the fact most emulators need you to extract the files but some want you to keep them in .zip format (I've seen this one confuse a lot of people on Fightcade for example). Seems simple enough that I have a bit of a hard time believing that many people really get filtered by having to right click and then extract a file, but it's probably the case for a few of them. |
| <-- the guy |
| they aren't hard to set up. They are just not worth setting up in the first place. |
| I have approximately 1 terabyte of anime on my computer. |
| The only emulators that are "hard" to set up (and by that I mean they don't work right after installation and need some extra shit) are MAME and computer emulators like DOSBox but they've made frontends and forks for both of them that fix these issues. rohan121 said: I think a lot of console gamers never really tried to learn how file manager works on windows/linux despite being very basic. Sounds right. We had a discussion at work once about this and we came to the conclusion that there is an entire generation of people who don't grasp the concept of a file system because they were raised on phones. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| If you think it's so easy, you should teach them how to do it. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| It's not hard, it just takes some time to get used to the controls. I always customize them to make the keyboard usage more convenient for my fingers. That takes some time at the beginning, but it's worth it for a better experience. |
*kappa* |
DesuMaiden said: They are just not worth setting up in the first place. Odd opinion. What makes you say that? Lucifrost said: If you think it's so easy, you should teach them how to do it. That's true and I have, and they tend to get it fairly quickly once I've had a chance to show them. The "emulation is hard and confusing" attitude isn't one I find particularly annoying, more just strange and odd and kind of interesting. Zarutaku said: It's not hard, it just takes some time to get used to the controls. I always customize them to make the keyboard usage more convenient for my fingers. Ah yeah fair, that's definitely an aspect I hadn't considered. I just plug in a controller and use it that way, trying to play something like MediEvil with a keyboard sounds painful. |
| <-- the guy |
Reply to Dogsmic
DesuMaiden said:
They are just not worth setting up in the first place.
They are just not worth setting up in the first place.
Odd opinion. What makes you say that?
Lucifrost said:
If you think it's so easy, you should teach them how to do it.
If you think it's so easy, you should teach them how to do it.
That's true and I have, and they tend to get it fairly quickly once I've had a chance to show them. The "emulation is hard and confusing" attitude isn't one I find particularly annoying, more just strange and odd and kind of interesting.
Zarutaku said:
It's not hard, it just takes some time to get used to the controls. I always customize them to make the keyboard usage more convenient for my fingers.
It's not hard, it just takes some time to get used to the controls. I always customize them to make the keyboard usage more convenient for my fingers.
Ah yeah fair, that's definitely an aspect I hadn't considered. I just plug in a controller and use it that way, trying to play something like MediEvil with a keyboard sounds painful.
Dogsmic said: That's true and I have, and they tend to get it fairly quickly once I've had a chance to show them. The "emulation is hard and confusing" attitude isn't one I find particularly annoying, more just strange and odd and kind of interesting. They're probably not good with computers. Everything is hard and confusing before I've done it once. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| Emulators also come along with so much benefits, like increased emulation speed, multiple save states for each game, and easy cheat code usage. I'll probably never play on consoles again if I can emulate the game instead. |
*kappa* |
Reply to Zarutaku
Emulators also come along with so much benefits, like increased emulation speed, multiple save states for each game, and easy cheat code usage.
I'll probably never play on consoles again if I can emulate the game instead.
I'll probably never play on consoles again if I can emulate the game instead.
| @Zarutaku That's true, but I honestly tend to not like using those features much. Things like save states on NES games where a game over sends you all the way back to the start, or a fast forward button on JRPGs that like their long attack animations a little too much are nice, but for me, I tend to not want the experience to stray too far from how it was originally. With rewind features that let you basically ignore the challenge entirely, or HD texture packs that completely change the whole look and feel of the game, I don't really feel like I've played the game at all, just some weird, "updated" alternate version of it. For me it's just about being able to play games you can't easily find anymore, so if I can find a reasonably cheap secondhand copy I tend to do that instead. |
| <-- the guy |
| Some people are so technology-averse. Anything that requires a little bit of learning is a big no for them. There's some form of learned helplessness here. That said, some emulators do require you to at least map the input, which is hard for those people. I personally find it not hard, but an annoyance, which is why I have an emulations folders set up so I never have to do it again. |
 ~Vive La Miémorrina~ Play Lolita Caramel | Admire My Artworks Follow Me On Twitter | Read My Drawing Blog |
| It's not that difficult to set up emulators but this misconception has persisted for years, I think a lot of that comes from the fear of messing something up or having to deal with a bunch of menus and information that doesn't make much sense if you don't use a pc for games etc. Patience could also be another reason, some people just want the game to run without needing to do much, it's one of the reasons why old game rereleases are popular. |
 Thank you secret santa for this amazing set! |
Reply to Dogsmic
DesuMaiden said:
They are just not worth setting up in the first place.
They are just not worth setting up in the first place.
Odd opinion. What makes you say that?
Lucifrost said:
If you think it's so easy, you should teach them how to do it.
If you think it's so easy, you should teach them how to do it.
That's true and I have, and they tend to get it fairly quickly once I've had a chance to show them. The "emulation is hard and confusing" attitude isn't one I find particularly annoying, more just strange and odd and kind of interesting.
Zarutaku said:
It's not hard, it just takes some time to get used to the controls. I always customize them to make the keyboard usage more convenient for my fingers.
It's not hard, it just takes some time to get used to the controls. I always customize them to make the keyboard usage more convenient for my fingers.
Ah yeah fair, that's definitely an aspect I hadn't considered. I just plug in a controller and use it that way, trying to play something like MediEvil with a keyboard sounds painful.
| @Dogsmic they are worth setting up, as long as your computer is compatiable with the emulation software....... |
| I have approximately 1 terabyte of anime on my computer. |
Reply to DesuMaiden
@Dogsmic they are worth setting up, as long as your computer is compatiable with the emulation software.......
| @DesuMaiden Good thing is that all of the good emulators work on Windows and x86 Linux so they cover the majority of computers. Lately a lot of emulators require AVX2 instructions but all PCs built in the last decade will have them. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
Reply to SweetMonia
Some people are so technology-averse. Anything that requires a little bit of learning is a big no for them. There's some form of learned helplessness here.
That said, some emulators do require you to at least map the input, which is hard for those people. I personally find it not hard, but an annoyance, which is why I have an emulations folders set up so I never have to do it again.
That said, some emulators do require you to at least map the input, which is hard for those people. I personally find it not hard, but an annoyance, which is why I have an emulations folders set up so I never have to do it again.
SweetMonia said: Some people are so technology-averse. Anything that requires a little bit of learning is a big no for them. There's some form of learned helplessness here. SweetMonia! Legend! 😊 It's 100% this. ONE THOUSAND MILLION PERCENT THIS! I've encountered this countless times. Including with emulator installation. There's a lot of good tutorials out there for the emulators, including ones that link to everything even the "illegal" stuff. And people simply put this mental hurdle and an overreaction of frustration if anything doesn't look exactly like the tutorial. And yes it often requires a bit of learning/curiosity with exploration of their own file system, which is ironic, since many games are all about curiosity so wtf? And sometimes all you need to do is LOOK to the left or click around a bit but even that is too much to ask?! Example, true story OK here's everything you need, along with a video of it I CAN'T DO IT Um what part did you have trouble on? I DONT KNOW did you install A, B, C I DONT KNOW OK, one step at a time: download and install winrar (A) THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING It is, but one step at a time: download and install winrar (A) (doesn't answer) I ACTUALLY DID THIS umm ok, did you move X to documents? We still need to make sure winra- I CANT FIND DOCUMENTS see it in the video? YOUR PC IS DIFFERENT open a folder, see Documents? THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING it is, but open a folder, do you see Documents on the left? You can also search your PC a bit its there somewhere OH I ALSO DID THIS OTHER STUFF I WAS NEVER TOLD TO DO At this point I gave up. But notice there's this complete lack of exploring a bit for the damn Documents folder in addition to moving and messing around with stuff they were never told to. Basic exploration is ignored, there's no learning from visual aids trying to see how they could do the same on their PC, and they FOR SOME REASON start tinkering with the components when they dont understand it.... as if it will magically work. This reminds me of kids who'd slam on every button on the arcade machine back in the 90s hoping the quarter genie would appear and give them a free play. But why do all that and not even look to the left and find the Documents folder likely in plain sight? I think they do the tinkering in hopes for an easy shortcut. Since I've been in this position A BILLION TIMES and people like this often demand one-on-one video call help, I'm gonna assume they just want it all done for them instantly. AHHHHHHHHH 😂😂😂😂🔫  I will say the mapping and also "hacking a ROM" with a patch can a massive pain in the ass. It's so annoying that I save these in multiple locations as I never want to do this again and you might not find the hack again anyhow. A lot of RPG hacks. Hacking PS1 ROMs is the worst. |
Shishio-kunJan 3, 3:16 PM
 |
| In addition to the things said by the above posters, I would also say that there's some exaggerated fear that anything downloaded "ilegally" could come infected with malware, which is true and a completely valid fear, but, in my experience, finding a safe ROM is pretty easy nowadays as long as you know what file formats the emulator is compatible with and don't download a .exe (aside from the emulator itself). |
  "—Please save me before the Grinch makes me do an evil thing. —We have to save him." Kdekalcio's fire writing when I was 11 years old Avatar art by Shino |
Reply to Kdekalcio
In addition to the things said by the above posters, I would also say that there's some exaggerated fear that anything downloaded "ilegally" could come infected with malware, which is true and a completely valid fear, but, in my experience, finding a safe ROM is pretty easy nowadays as long as you know what file formats the emulator is compatible with and don't download a .exe (aside from the emulator itself).
| @Kdekalcio I've heard this too. And it's with some other stuff like random aps or scripts from well-known people or sites. But those same ppl (I suspect) also visit a million unsafe porn sites and get malware this way. Their poor lil PCs are sometimes DESTROYED. Many online users need safe porn surfing lessons! I thought to myself, "Approach gaming emulation with the same fearless dedication you have when searching for porn." Would never say it.  |
|
| @Shishio-kun I think your friends are stupid. OP said his friends understand emulation just fine once he explains it. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Shishio-kun
SweetMonia said:
Some people are so technology-averse. Anything that requires a little bit of learning is a big no for them. There's some form of learned helplessness here.
Some people are so technology-averse. Anything that requires a little bit of learning is a big no for them. There's some form of learned helplessness here.
SweetMonia! Legend! 😊
It's 100% this. ONE THOUSAND MILLION PERCENT THIS! I've encountered this countless times. Including with emulator installation.
There's a lot of good tutorials out there for the emulators, including ones that link to everything even the "illegal" stuff. And people simply put this mental hurdle and an overreaction of frustration if anything doesn't look exactly like the tutorial. And yes it often requires a bit of learning/curiosity with exploration of their own file system, which is ironic, since many games are all about curiosity so wtf? And sometimes all you need to do is LOOK to the left or click around a bit but even that is too much to ask?!
Example, true story
OK here's everything you need, along with a video of it
I CAN'T DO IT
Um what part did you have trouble on?
I DONT KNOW
did you install A, B, C
I DONT KNOW
OK, one step at a time: download and install winrar (A)
THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING
It is, but one step at a time: download and install winrar (A)
(doesn't answer) I ACTUALLY DID THIS
umm ok, did you move X to documents? We still need to make sure winra-
I CANT FIND DOCUMENTS
see it in the video?
YOUR PC IS DIFFERENT
open a folder, see Documents?
THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING
it is, but open a folder, do you see Documents on the left? You can also search your PC a bit its there somewhere
OH I ALSO DID THIS OTHER STUFF I WAS NEVER TOLD TO DO
At this point I gave up. But notice there's this complete lack of exploring a bit for the damn Documents folder in addition to moving and messing around with stuff they were never told to. Basic exploration is ignored, there's no learning from visual aids trying to see how they could do the same on their PC, and they FOR SOME REASON start tinkering with the components when they dont understand it.... as if it will magically work. This reminds me of kids who'd slam on every button on the arcade machine back in the 90s hoping the quarter genie would appear and give them a free play.
But why do all that and not even look to the left and find the Documents folder likely in plain sight? I think they do the tinkering in hopes for an easy shortcut. Since I've been in this position A BILLION TIMES and people like this often demand one-on-one video call help, I'm gonna assume they just want it all done for them instantly.
AHHHHHHHHH 😂😂😂😂🔫
I will say the mapping and also "hacking a ROM" with a patch can a massive pain in the ass. It's so annoying that I save these in multiple locations as I never want to do this again and you might not find the hack again anyhow. A lot of RPG hacks. Hacking PS1 ROMs is the worst.
| @Shishio-kun Genuinely curious as to how a person ends up like this, surely finding the documents folder can't be that hard? File explorer in general feels like something you'd have to engage with naturally just by virtue of having a computer, can't even begin to imagine having to engage with this sort of person. True about rom hacks though, even relatively easy stuff like patching with LunarIPS or Xdelta I can see being intimidating enough that someone might not want to go near it. Since I've been in this position A BILLION TIMES and people like this often demand one-on-one video call help, I'm gonna assume they just want it all done for them instantly. It's 50/50 in my experience, whenever I've helped show someone in the past it's been an irl friend and I've just physically done it for them on their computer while explaining each step of what I'm doing. Generally they want to be handheld through each step of the process at first because they've built it up in their head as something scary, but once they've seen how little it actually takes, you don't really need to do anything after that's done. I remember one particular guy I helped set up PS1 emulation for Klonoa told me he'd been playing Resident Evil 2 on it a few weeks later, and he didn't even need to ask me for help at any stage. More than anything you just need to help them overcome the mental barrier they've built up in their head for whatever reason, it's more about that than anything. |
| <-- the guy |
Reply to Lucifrost
@Shishio-kun
I think your friends are stupid. OP said his friends understand emulation just fine once he explains it.
I think your friends are stupid. OP said his friends understand emulation just fine once he explains it.
Lucifrost said: I think your friends are stupid. Dogsmic said: Genuinely curious as to how a person ends up like this, surely finding the documents folder can't be that hard? Also, unfathomable levels of laziness. But they certainly overcomplicate things in their head thinking it's going to be way harder than it is. If it's already too hard to them before even starting, trying could either A) prove they overreacted and will feel dumb or B) waste their time and fail making them feel dumb? Maybe. Either way I think also some internalized shame is being projected in the frustration and anger. Some of these things might be scary and fear is causing more barriers and frustration. And what about the possibility of success? Maybe something else blocks that thought out. No confidence? Too many past failures?  Geez what a mess! My thinking is just "me want game, me get, me press buttons until game comes out". The reward is too high to not try, honestly, even if it was to take days xD Lucifrost said: OP said his friends understand emulation just fine once he explains it. To understand, you have to first listen and try so that you can learn. Problem is there's people who just outright refuse to make those basic first steps. Likely because of the aforementioned mental walls they've built in their head (I knew I wasn't the only one who suspected this). I guess if I was to handhold them through it in person or on a video call but... uh Dx that's for the close friends (who can do this lol) not online acquaintances. |
Shishio-kunJan 3, 5:14 PM
|
| @Shishio-kun:- Oh yeah. That was stupid... I had a similar experience as that. Maybe not to the same extreme, but similar:- - I was once playing with a kid, and we launched Fortnite on PS5. - At the main menu, the game shows the "Term of service" with an obvious "Press X to accept" written below it. All you need to proceed is to press X, and continue with starting the game. - The kid (who knows English very well), asked me what to do. - I told him "read the message" - He read the message at the top of "Press X to continue" without care in the world, then asked me what to do. He was clearly depending on me to tell him what to do. - I stuck to my gun, which forced him to eventually press X. Even the simple stuff can get some people really stuck. I am lucky in a way, as I don't have to deal with that too much. >>>> Speaking of patching roms. I am actually stuck with patching one, but I am hoping I find the right rom to get the job done. |
~Vive La Miémorrina~ Play Lolita Caramel | Admire My Artworks Follow Me On Twitter | Read My Drawing Blog |
Reply to Dogsmic
@Shishio-kun Genuinely curious as to how a person ends up like this, surely finding the documents folder can't be that hard? File explorer in general feels like something you'd have to engage with naturally just by virtue of having a computer, can't even begin to imagine having to engage with this sort of person. True about rom hacks though, even relatively easy stuff like patching with LunarIPS or Xdelta I can see being intimidating enough that someone might not want to go near it.
It's 50/50 in my experience, whenever I've helped show someone in the past it's been an irl friend and I've just physically done it for them on their computer while explaining each step of what I'm doing. Generally they want to be handheld through each step of the process at first because they've built it up in their head as something scary, but once they've seen how little it actually takes, you don't really need to do anything after that's done. I remember one particular guy I helped set up PS1 emulation for Klonoa told me he'd been playing Resident Evil 2 on it a few weeks later, and he didn't even need to ask me for help at any stage. More than anything you just need to help them overcome the mental barrier they've built up in their head for whatever reason, it's more about that than anything.
Since I've been in this position A BILLION TIMES and people like this often demand one-on-one video call help, I'm gonna assume they just want it all done for them instantly.
It's 50/50 in my experience, whenever I've helped show someone in the past it's been an irl friend and I've just physically done it for them on their computer while explaining each step of what I'm doing. Generally they want to be handheld through each step of the process at first because they've built it up in their head as something scary, but once they've seen how little it actually takes, you don't really need to do anything after that's done. I remember one particular guy I helped set up PS1 emulation for Klonoa told me he'd been playing Resident Evil 2 on it a few weeks later, and he didn't even need to ask me for help at any stage. More than anything you just need to help them overcome the mental barrier they've built up in their head for whatever reason, it's more about that than anything.
Dogsmic said: File explorer in general feels like something you'd have to engage with naturally just by virtue of having a computer, Actually, many people grew with tablets. And only do homework in Google docs & something similar, which shows them a list of files & a search bar. That's it. The idea of file system with folders, multiple drives, a desktop & more sounds intimidating & complicated to them. They have to learn all that. The ones willing to learn do manage to learn it, at least to a degree, but not everyone does. Sadly speaking. |
~Vive La Miémorrina~ Play Lolita Caramel | Admire My Artworks Follow Me On Twitter | Read My Drawing Blog |
Reply to SweetMonia
Dogsmic said:
File explorer in general feels like something you'd have to engage with naturally just by virtue of having a computer,
File explorer in general feels like something you'd have to engage with naturally just by virtue of having a computer,
Actually, many people grew with tablets. And only do homework in Google docs & something similar, which shows them a list of files & a search bar. That's it. The idea of file system with folders, multiple drives, a desktop & more sounds intimidating & complicated to them. They have to learn all that. The ones willing to learn do manage to learn it, at least to a degree, but not everyone does. Sadly speaking.
| @SweetMonia Everything I know about using a computer, I was taught. You can't expect kids to teach themselves to use computers. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| @Lucifrost:- I didn't say that. I just said that some are willing to learn, and some others are not. It's fine if they learned from a book or taught by someone else. |
~Vive La Miémorrina~ Play Lolita Caramel | Admire My Artworks Follow Me On Twitter | Read My Drawing Blog |
Reply to Lucifrost
@SweetMonia
Everything I know about using a computer, I was taught. You can't expect kids to teach themselves to use computers.
Everything I know about using a computer, I was taught. You can't expect kids to teach themselves to use computers.
Lucifrost said: You can't expect kids to teach themselves to use computers. I think if you let them explore they can figure it out, many of us did. As long as it is Windows and in their native language. I've seen kids breeze through some Roblox game nonsense which seems complicated for a child to understand and adult gamers struggled a tiny bit with the same stuff. BELIEVE! BELIEVE IN THE CHILDREN!  |
|
Reply to Shishio-kun
Lucifrost said:
You can't expect kids to teach themselves to use computers.
You can't expect kids to teach themselves to use computers.
I think if you let them explore they can figure it out, many of us did. As long as it is Windows and in their native language. I've seen kids breeze through some Roblox game nonsense which seems complicated for a child to understand and adult gamers struggled a tiny bit with the same stuff.
BELIEVE! BELIEVE IN THE CHILDREN!
| @Shishio-kun That sort of thing is not standard practice, even if some kids may have done it. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| Whether it's complicated or not depends on console, game, and how much you care about making it look and play well, but in most cases, for casual gaming it's just install and open, yes. Years ago, for PS1 and PS2 I remember there were bunch of plugins you had to find, download and set up properly according to a guide so it runs smoothly on your PC, but nowadays it's not necessary anymore, everything's in and ready. Dogsmic said: I've been thinking about it because I had to set up Sega Saturn emulation for myself just recently and it was an absolute pain, I went through about 5 or 6 emulators before I found one (Bizhawk) that eventually worked, and even that one took a bit to get right. I have most emulators set up on RetroArch, and only use few external ones, for PS1, PS2, PSP and PC-98. Here, you just need to download the core for the system you want from the list and it will work. Sometimes you need a firmware too, but that's easy to find. It's convenient to have multiple emulators in 1, and you can make mixed playlists too. |
| I think it's also the emulator graphics settings as well to make the games look as great as possible but there are so many guides for that now as well. PCSX2 also has so many QoL options with patches integrated into the emulator that it's now easier than ever. |
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