| Its easily the "worst" dragon ball series (dragon ball heroes was way better) but thats more like cause it simply couldn't compete with any of the other series of dragon ball overall rather than itself being bad as a standalone, for the rest they had a lot of great things to show, real overal direction and they knew what to do with them, this one feels more like an uninspired copy-paste and its basically a random kids story that isnt meant to make much sense, so it would have less appeal and also barely fits in the main series anyway, super saiyan 3 vegeta was good though, it needed to happen in canon at some point |
ElfezenJan 3, 4:24 AM
Reply to reiisnotreal
stevejawbs said:
Spoilers for up to episode 12.
I've been reading the comments in the episode discussions, and I'm surprised that most of the comments have been super positive. I feel like the show has fantastic visuals and the fights are great, but the story just feels so empty.
I think the main problem I'm having with the show is that it's trying to be early Dragon Ball, but with even less stakes. The Tamagami were introduced as these crazy strong baddies, but both Goku and Vegeta beat them with ease. Vegeta going SSJ3 came out of nowhere, and it felt like cheap fanservice. As soon as Goku and Vegeta beat the Tamagami easily, the whole story up to this point became pointless, and all the ridiculous contrivances that were supposedly hindering our protagonists become even more contrived than before. The fact that they're children seems to be almost completely forgotten about at this point, with only passing mentions to it when the characters struggle against their opponent, only to then completely destroy them in the next episode. The premise doesn't even make sense within the universe, considering Gotenks, a fusion of two actual children, was far stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
Seriously, "the air is too heavy to fly long distances", meanwhile Vegeta's spent hours training at 500x Earth's gravity, or that the Gendarmerie were ever a threat and that they had to hide from them, despite the fact that they are weaker than the Tamagami (or else why wouldn't Gomah just use them to get the dragon balls himself) and Goku could take out the entire army if he wanted, or that the kraken ever posed a danger when the last villain they fought was destroying literal planets in seconds, etc. There's just too much baggage from DBZ - you can't really go from "fighting an unstoppable evil that will destroy the entire universe" to "the air is too heavy to fly in" or "we have to hide from regular non-powered soldiers with spears" without some serious eye-rolling nonsense. I'm also hoping for a twist villain, because the thought of the big bad being a slightly modified copy of the previous one is a level of laziness I'm not prepared for.
Even though Dragon Ball was much more comedic and lighthearted than DBZ, there's still proper stakes and reasons to get invested. Even within the first arc, the protags almost lost everything to Pilaf and only just barely prevented him from making his wish for world domination. The tournament arc was the highlight of the show and a staple in shonen, showing the intense training that they went through and then the result from that hard work. Every arc after that had significant stakes, but it never stopped being a fun gag manga. It had a great blend of both that Daima is lacking in (at least so far).
I'll keep watching because I'm a fan of the Dragon Ball franchise, and I do genuinely enjoy the demon world and how fleshed out it is. But for every cool detail about the world, the actual story of saving Dende from Gomah is so underwhelming and lacks any tension at all. I'm not sure if the core problems I have with it can be addressed, but I'm hoping for it anyway. What do you all think?
Spoilers for up to episode 12.
I've been reading the comments in the episode discussions, and I'm surprised that most of the comments have been super positive. I feel like the show has fantastic visuals and the fights are great, but the story just feels so empty.
I think the main problem I'm having with the show is that it's trying to be early Dragon Ball, but with even less stakes. The Tamagami were introduced as these crazy strong baddies, but both Goku and Vegeta beat them with ease. Vegeta going SSJ3 came out of nowhere, and it felt like cheap fanservice. As soon as Goku and Vegeta beat the Tamagami easily, the whole story up to this point became pointless, and all the ridiculous contrivances that were supposedly hindering our protagonists become even more contrived than before. The fact that they're children seems to be almost completely forgotten about at this point, with only passing mentions to it when the characters struggle against their opponent, only to then completely destroy them in the next episode. The premise doesn't even make sense within the universe, considering Gotenks, a fusion of two actual children, was far stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
Seriously, "the air is too heavy to fly long distances", meanwhile Vegeta's spent hours training at 500x Earth's gravity, or that the Gendarmerie were ever a threat and that they had to hide from them, despite the fact that they are weaker than the Tamagami (or else why wouldn't Gomah just use them to get the dragon balls himself) and Goku could take out the entire army if he wanted, or that the kraken ever posed a danger when the last villain they fought was destroying literal planets in seconds, etc. There's just too much baggage from DBZ - you can't really go from "fighting an unstoppable evil that will destroy the entire universe" to "the air is too heavy to fly in" or "we have to hide from regular non-powered soldiers with spears" without some serious eye-rolling nonsense. I'm also hoping for a twist villain, because the thought of the big bad being a slightly modified copy of the previous one is a level of laziness I'm not prepared for.
Even though Dragon Ball was much more comedic and lighthearted than DBZ, there's still proper stakes and reasons to get invested. Even within the first arc, the protags almost lost everything to Pilaf and only just barely prevented him from making his wish for world domination. The tournament arc was the highlight of the show and a staple in shonen, showing the intense training that they went through and then the result from that hard work. Every arc after that had significant stakes, but it never stopped being a fun gag manga. It had a great blend of both that Daima is lacking in (at least so far).
I'll keep watching because I'm a fan of the Dragon Ball franchise, and I do genuinely enjoy the demon world and how fleshed out it is. But for every cool detail about the world, the actual story of saving Dende from Gomah is so underwhelming and lacks any tension at all. I'm not sure if the core problems I have with it can be addressed, but I'm hoping for it anyway. What do you all think?
Better than dbs🥱🥱
| @reiisnotreal well, thats really easy. DBS Made GT look like a good series |
| :v |
| nah its light hearted fun not everything should be serious or dire lol plenty of popular dark fantasy anime are like that already like attack on titan, demon slayer, jujutsu kaisen, chainsaw man, etc |
| anyway for a late night anime the ratings of daima in japan are similar to one piece which airs in the morning so i say its doing great in japan where it matters more |
Reply to FreedomKME
I am not reading all that, kid. If you can't be precise and concise with your thoughts, then the problem is you, not the show.
| @FreedomKME LOL Just say you can't read, by not saying you can't read. Damn I feel sorry for you. |
 |
Reply to stevejawbs
DBGT and DBS definitely had stakes. I mean yes, as with all battle shonens and most conventional stories, the protagonist is not going to die or lose the main fight. I'm not watching One Piece and thinking that Luffy could die in the next fight, because it'd make no sense for the main protagonist of the story to die before his story is finished.
The enemies they faced in DBGT and DBS were actual threats, and the consequences for losing was almost always the end of the world/universe(s). They were almost always far stronger or had a significant advantage over the Z fighters. Only through sheer determination and will (and of course some magic voodoo asspull) did Goku defeat them and save the world.
Daima's stake is that they need to rescue Dende from Gomah, or else... nothing really will happen, lol. I guess they're stuck as children, but that's about it. Dende's in no danger whatsoever, so much so that they're taking their sweet time going to the second demon world to defeat the tamagami. The villain in this story is far weaker than the villain in the last story, which basically means that the characters are in no real danger whatsoever.
Mind you, there's nothing wrong with that. Plenty of stories have the "OP MC" who's so strong that they can never be defeated, and all they do is steamroll everyone. But it has to be written properly for it to work. Daima is playing it completely straight, trying to set up the tension with the tamagamis and the kraken, but then completely falling flat.
The enemies they faced in DBGT and DBS were actual threats, and the consequences for losing was almost always the end of the world/universe(s). They were almost always far stronger or had a significant advantage over the Z fighters. Only through sheer determination and will (and of course some magic voodoo asspull) did Goku defeat them and save the world.
Daima's stake is that they need to rescue Dende from Gomah, or else... nothing really will happen, lol. I guess they're stuck as children, but that's about it. Dende's in no danger whatsoever, so much so that they're taking their sweet time going to the second demon world to defeat the tamagami. The villain in this story is far weaker than the villain in the last story, which basically means that the characters are in no real danger whatsoever.
Mind you, there's nothing wrong with that. Plenty of stories have the "OP MC" who's so strong that they can never be defeated, and all they do is steamroll everyone. But it has to be written properly for it to work. Daima is playing it completely straight, trying to set up the tension with the tamagamis and the kraken, but then completely falling flat.
| @stevejawbs For me, the great charm of Daima is precisely the fact that it doesn't have these big threats that can destroy the universe. We've seen that too much in Dragon Ball, I think it's saturated... Dragon Ball isn't just about defeating ultra-powerful villains. It has adventure and Toriyama's cheesy jokes too. I'm happy to see this new series that's lighter and more laid-back. If its intention is to bring back the essence of the first arcs, it's working for me. But I understand that most fans prefer this formula where each arc has a villain more powerful than the last. |
  |
Reply to FreedomKME
xDreww said:
@FreedomKME LOL Just say you can't read, by not saying you can't read. Damn I feel sorry for you.
@FreedomKME LOL Just say you can't read, by not saying you can't read. Damn I feel sorry for you.
Not everyone is a useless child with excessive free time to waste like you, kid.
| @FreedomKME hey nice excuse to ignore the fact that your comprehending skills are low. Lazy kid. Check my birthday on my profile or are you ACTUALLY OLDER THAN ME? Let me know if I made you look stupid. |
|
| u are just too old for it |
Reply to stevejawbs
@-lies- While I do appreciate the sentiment, there's a bit of nuance that's missing here.
Classic DB, even when it was low stakes, it still had stakes and tension. The first saga, which was arguably the only one that's not focused on fighting, was still consistently the main characters struggling to get the dragon balls, and then in the end stopping Pilaf from his wish of world domination. The next one is the tournament saga, arguably the best one of the series, and while it was a low-stakes story of them training and then entering the tenkaichi budokai, it was full of tension. Then every saga after that increased the stakes significantly, with Red Ribbon Army, Tien, and Piccolo.
Daima starts off with the main villains shitting their pants at the Z fighters defeating the villain from two sagas ago. I'm not using power levels to blindly compare the relative strengths of the characters, but instead to infer how significant or impactful certain elements will be to the story. With that opening scene, I'm led to believe that these beings pose no threat to the main characters whatsoever. Then the show tries its very hardest to tell me that there actually is tension and stakes, with the Z fighters becoming children, the air, etc., and of course with the Tamagamis. And then within a couple episodes, they proceed to undo all that setup by having it play out exactly what people would think would happen, i.e. Goku and Vegeta defeat the Tamagamis easily.
This is the crux of the issue. It's not that it's too laid back or the threat is not big enough, it's that it tries to be both. I would've much preferred if they leaned into the fact that the Z fighters are way stronger, but instead they wasted the show's runtime trying to pretend that they weren't. Seriously, there was so much buildup for these Tamagamis, so you'd expect that something interesting would happen, but nothing does.
Classic DB, even when it was low stakes, it still had stakes and tension. The first saga, which was arguably the only one that's not focused on fighting, was still consistently the main characters struggling to get the dragon balls, and then in the end stopping Pilaf from his wish of world domination. The next one is the tournament saga, arguably the best one of the series, and while it was a low-stakes story of them training and then entering the tenkaichi budokai, it was full of tension. Then every saga after that increased the stakes significantly, with Red Ribbon Army, Tien, and Piccolo.
Daima starts off with the main villains shitting their pants at the Z fighters defeating the villain from two sagas ago. I'm not using power levels to blindly compare the relative strengths of the characters, but instead to infer how significant or impactful certain elements will be to the story. With that opening scene, I'm led to believe that these beings pose no threat to the main characters whatsoever. Then the show tries its very hardest to tell me that there actually is tension and stakes, with the Z fighters becoming children, the air, etc., and of course with the Tamagamis. And then within a couple episodes, they proceed to undo all that setup by having it play out exactly what people would think would happen, i.e. Goku and Vegeta defeat the Tamagamis easily.
This is the crux of the issue. It's not that it's too laid back or the threat is not big enough, it's that it tries to be both. I would've much preferred if they leaned into the fact that the Z fighters are way stronger, but instead they wasted the show's runtime trying to pretend that they weren't. Seriously, there was so much buildup for these Tamagamis, so you'd expect that something interesting would happen, but nothing does.
| @stevejawbs You have a good point I hadn't thought about that and it can be quite disappointing when expectations for Tamagamis aren't met. |
|
Reply to stevejawbs
@zonda_r2 I mean, considering it's a direct continuation of a story that ended in 1996, I don't see how I could be.
Imagine someone watching this without watching DBZ, they'd be so confused.
Imagine someone watching this without watching DBZ, they'd be so confused.
| @stevejawbs i meant u are too old to enjoy cheesy stuff like this. dbz is barely entertaining, new db would be worse as clearly toei is just trynna milk the shit out of it. now i dont know what type of stuff u like so im just assuming a lot but imo modern db is just too soft for old anime fans, not enough otaku pandering shit. |
Reply to Bastiono
@stevejawbs they're collecting the dragon balls from the tamagamis in order to wish themselves and Dende back to Earth, Dende is the only reason they're in the demon world in the first place, they're not worried about waiting for Shenron to recharge for them to reage. That was never a factor except being planted as a part of the plan the doctor laid.
When Goku was fighting in the tavern,it was made blatant that he was holding back (you don't often see artists eating while they fight seriously)
When they were in the third demon world they determined that fighting the tamagamis would be easier then Gomah, plus Goku's sayian blood makes him want to fight.
Which would be a simpler fight: Goku vs the tamagamis or Goku vs the tricks and traps Gomah might set in their way?
When fighting the 2nd tamagami, Neva powered it up against Vegeta,even he knows they love to fight
There is no tension for Goku and the others because they're just having fun. The tension you're looking for is coming exclusively from the rulers of the demon world
Dragon Ball Daima is telling a story, not a fight, things are happening for the story
I could see,if Goku actually faces Gomah, that he would just ask Dende to be returned.
When Goku was fighting in the tavern,it was made blatant that he was holding back (you don't often see artists eating while they fight seriously)
When they were in the third demon world they determined that fighting the tamagamis would be easier then Gomah, plus Goku's sayian blood makes him want to fight.
Which would be a simpler fight: Goku vs the tamagamis or Goku vs the tricks and traps Gomah might set in their way?
When fighting the 2nd tamagami, Neva powered it up against Vegeta,even he knows they love to fight
There is no tension for Goku and the others because they're just having fun. The tension you're looking for is coming exclusively from the rulers of the demon world
Dragon Ball Daima is telling a story, not a fight, things are happening for the story
I could see,if Goku actually faces Gomah, that he would just ask Dende to be returned.
| @Bastiono Goku clearly said that they want the dragonballs first to turn back into normal (adults) again so they can deal with the situation easier, but it obviously isn't going to happen until the very end, Gomah will most likely steal Arinsu's dragonball or something like that, also it wouldn't make sense to collect the dragon ball just to wish to go back to earth when they can do that easily without them anyway |
| I dropped around 9 since it lacked the comedy of og dragonball, and the decent fights of the og, Z, gt, or even super. The anime feels more like dragon quest using the dragonball franchise. Not only that, but a very overly corporate politically correct plot making even gt look edgy by comparison. |
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