Why wouldn’t this work?

Nov 12, 2023 12:18 PM

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Apr 2022

1541

https://imgur.com/a/fhEbYXp

I was watching a couple of reviews and came across this comment. Can anyone explain to me why this wouldn’t work?

thunderkitten13Nov 12, 2023 12:28 PM

Nov 12, 2023 12:40 PM

thunderkitten13

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Apr 2022

1541

Here’s the pic blahh

Nov 12, 2023 12:42 PM

skelash

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Oct 2022

ig because the plot wouldn't happened

Nov 12, 2023 12:42 PM

SuperNinja02

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Feb 2021

It would work. It’s just a plot hole that Eren didn’t do this. Isayama didn’t think the time travel through whatsoever and it shows.

Nov 12, 2023 12:46 PM

Madhav001

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Mar 2021

446

Woah this looks very reasonable.....
Then we can reach the Eren manipulation time and see him change the past ultimately the future also changes for the best and Eldia would have been saved.
Why did Eren not do this though, if he had seen the past and carried out various outcomes several times.... This is a perfect outcome though, is it not?

Nov 12, 2023 1:07 PM

ghier

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Aug 2019

1512

Monkey_D_Uzumaki said:
It would work. It’s just a plot hole that Eren didn’t do this. Isayama didn’t think the time travel through whatsoever and it shows.

I think Isayama did actually think it through a lot. He just wrote himself into a wall by making it so Eren could see and direct everything but also maintain the theme and mechanic that he couldn’t change anything b/c fate.

That’s why the only resolution for Eren’s character is that he is fucking idiot that desperately wanted the genocide despite feeling horribly guilty about it

Nov 12, 2023 1:16 PM

ForeverTraitor

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Jan 2019

883

Ok so the AoT timeline is deterministic, Eren sees multiple pieces of the future (from Grisha's memories of Eren in the future) when he kisses Historia's hand and despite his efforts to change it, everything still happens exactly as he saw it. It's why he laughed when Sasha died, it was the final moment for him that confirmed he couldn't change the future.

When he obtains the founder's power he can see the full past, present and future. He knows he'll start the rumbling, kill 80% of the population and be killed by Mikasa; and he does nothing to try and change that because past events have proved he can't.

Finally, it should be noted that Eren wants to do the rumbling for selfish reasons. He does have the secondary motive of protecting his friends, but as stated in that YouTube comment, there are multiple better ways to achieve that with the founding titan's power than the rumbling.

A lot of people don't like to believe that Eren did the rumbling for his personal satisfaction, they prefer the image of Eren as the calm badass who had everything worked out and was completely justified in his actions. It's why Isayama wrote that meltdown he has in his final conversation with Armin; trying to make it as clear as possible that he's kind of an idiot who shouldn't have been given all that power.

ForeverTraitorNov 12, 2023 1:28 PM

Nov 12, 2023 1:48 PM

1crusty

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Mar 2023

181

because plot convenience

Nov 12, 2023 2:41 PM

JWatchesFillers

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Sep 2022

Because it’s a love story and the titans needed to be eradicated

Nov 12, 2023 3:25 PM

#10

sdf1666

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Mar 2021

Eren's dad wasn't bloodthirsty enough to go through with killing the royal family. The only reason he did it in the end was because of Eren's future self goading him into doing it.

Even could only do THAT because of a combination of the Attack Titan's ability to see the memories of future users and Zeke taking Eren on a joyride through his father's memories.

So yea, that's basically why that wouldn't work.

Nov 12, 2023 3:35 PM

#11

Yosakusan

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Apr 2017

370

His mom was already doomed. Her lower half was crushed and she was surounded by titans. Bertoldt is the one that kicked the wall and killed her, Eren just sent the titan to finish her off before another titan, infection or blood loss did her in. Remember, inside the walls they did not have advanced medicine. Also, that would not have ended the titan curse, which was Eren's main goal.

Nov 12, 2023 3:58 PM

#12

OzScarlak

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Jan 2012

Because time paradox.

Nov 12, 2023 4:32 PM

#13

Jacky08

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Sep 2018

ForeverTraitor said:
Ok so the AoT timeline is deterministic, Eren sees multiple pieces of the future (from Grisha's memories of Eren in the future) when he kisses Historia's hand and despite his efforts to change it, everything still happens exactly as he saw it. It's why he laughed when Sasha died, it was the final moment for him that confirmed he couldn't change the future.

When he obtains the founder's power he can see the full past, present and future. He knows he'll start the rumbling, kill 80% of the population and be killed by Mikasa; and he does nothing to try and change that because past events have proved he can't.

Finally, it should be noted that Eren wants to do the rumbling for selfish reasons. He does have the secondary motive of protecting his friends, but as stated in that YouTube comment, there are multiple better ways to achieve that with the founding titan's power than the rumbling.

A lot of people don't like to believe that Eren did the rumbling for his personal satisfaction, they prefer the image of Eren as the calm badass who had everything worked out and was completely justified in his actions. It's why Isayama wrote that meltdown he has in his final conversation with Armin; trying to make it as clear as possible that he's kind of an idiot who shouldn't have been given all that power.

So you say it is determnistic and he cant change anything but he literally says that HE made the titan eat his mom. Also if it is determnistic then it does not matter that he is an idiot who should not have had the Power and wanted to use it for selfish reasons because he had no choice either way. Isayma just could not choose a side and wrote himself into a situation he obv didnt know what to do with

Nov 12, 2023 4:35 PM

#14

Jacky08

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Sep 2018

sdf1666 said:
Eren's dad wasn't bloodthirsty enough to go through with killing the royal family. The only reason he did it in the end was because of Eren's future self goading him into doing it.

Even could only do THAT because of a combination of the Attack Titan's ability to see the memories of future users and Zeke taking Eren on a joyride through his father's memories.

So yea, that's basically why that wouldn't work.

its literally said that eren made it so his mom was eaten so yeah it should be possible.

Nov 12, 2023 4:37 PM

#15

Jacky08

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Sep 2018

Yosakusan said:
His mom was already doomed. Her lower half was crushed and she was surounded by titans. Bertoldt is the one that kicked the wall and killed her, Eren just sent the titan to finish her off before another titan, infection or blood loss did her in. Remember, inside the walls they did not have advanced medicine. Also, that would not have ended the titan curse, which was Eren's main goal.

head cannon? He literally says he sent the titan to his mom so it does not eat Berthold

Nov 12, 2023 7:33 PM

#16

XDime

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Jan 2023

Was a fritz so denouncing war.....

Nov 12, 2023 8:44 PM

#17

Ayanokamisama

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Mar 2023

135

Reply to thunderkitten13

Here’s the pic blahh

@thunderkitten13
Idk what's so hard bro..

.. AoT was always about Eren and his inability and this final episode portrayed his inability perfectly.

Nov 12, 2023 11:56 PM

#18

Fuhrer_Wrath

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Dec 2020

524

Here's my attempt at explaining it.

If Eren did this we would have no guarantee that he would get the Founding Titan which would ensure Eren doing it in tge first place.

Here are a few things that can go wrong.

1.Dina eats Bertholdt and turns into human. Because that's how that works. Reiner who was in his Titan Form immediately eats Dina because he already learned his lesson with Marcel.
So there goes your Titan with Royal blood.

2.Grisha only killed the Reiss Family because Eren influenced him through the memories of his wife's death.

Similarly Grisha only gave Eren the Founding Titan and Attack Titan because his wife died .

So if his wife is alive and his whole family why would he then condemn his 9 years old son to die in 13 years?

Isn't it more likely that Grisha would tell someone in the Survey Corp the truth and give them the Titan Power.
Which would create a Time Paradox because if Eren never got the Attack Titan he couldn't have done the things required to access the Founding Titan in the first place through which he's changing the past.

3. Let's say Dina somehow survives and Grisha takes the Attack Titan and Founding Titan from the Reiss Family.
Now Grisha has less than a Year to convince the Survey Corp that not only so Titan Shifters exist, but also that their whole government is fake and needs to be dismantled.
And that someone has to turn in to a Titan and eat him within a few months.

And he has to do all of this all the while The Walls were literally attacked by other Titan shifters.

And not to mention that Grisha probably doesn't even know how to access the Founding Titan because Eren only found that out by accident.
And Grisha probably doesn't even know that Dina is alive because Eren can only send back memories he has. And in his Timeline Eren has no memories of Dina Turning human and surviving.

4. All of this is a moot point anyway because literally anything that prevents Eren from getting the Attack Titan cannot happen because it prevents Eren from sending back memories which prevents Eren from accessing the Founder which prevents Changing the past anyway.

Nov 13, 2023 9:15 PM

#19

Weap0nX

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May 2022

thunderkitten13 said:
Here’s the pic blahh

Founding Titan and Royale blood alone aren't sufficient for anything. There is the King's auth preventing anyone from using Founding Titan's power for offence and you have to convince Ymir also to do anything with Founding Titan.

Nov 13, 2023 11:57 PM

#20

Ayanokamisama

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Mar 2023

135

Reply to Weap0nX

thunderkitten13 said:
Here’s the pic blahh

Weap0nX said:
Founding Titan and Royale blood alone aren't sufficient for anything. There is the King's auth preventing anyone from using Founding Titan's power for offence and you have to convince Ymir also to do anything with Founding Titan.

Finally someone who pays attention when watching AoT 👍👍

Teach that guy.

Nov 14, 2023 1:38 AM

#21

Adnash

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Oct 2013

10456

Reply to Weap0nX

thunderkitten13 said:
Here’s the pic blahh

@Weap0nX And going deeper into details, it was basically Ymir that was pulling the strings. Not only, like you said, she had to be convinced to allow using the power of the Founding Titan in one way or another and to a specific extent. The plan mentioned in the comment we are discussing about wouldn't work, because it'd be against Ymir's will to reach a certain point in reality with a specific outcome (Mikasa the lover getting over her affection and moving on after her loved one's - Eren's - death). That's why, ironically, even with Ymir suffering from Stockholm syndrome and toxic love, all descendats of her husband (king Fritz) had to consider her will as the ultimate instance in wielding the godlike powers of the Founding Titan.

✨Saint Seiya Club🌠

Nov 14, 2023 6:51 AM

#22

zerotitan

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Sep 2018

212

Seems like people here are not aware of the causal loop and AOT story being a predestination paradox/ bootstrap paradox. Here is definition for those who are not aware:

Bootstrap Paradox:

The bootstrap paradox is a situation in which an object or piece of information is sent back in time and becomes the cause of its own existence. In other words, the origin of the object or information becomes unclear because it forms a loop with no discernible starting point. The term "bootstrap" refers to the idea of pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps, symbolizing a self-perpetuating cycle.

Example: If a time traveler gives Shakespeare a copy of his own complete works, and Shakespeare publishes them, the works have no clear origin—they exist in a loop where Shakespeare's future self provides the works to his past self.

Predestination Paradox:

The predestination paradox is a situation in which a time traveler's actions in the past were always meant to happen, and the events unfold in a predetermined or predestined manner. In this scenario, the time traveler's presence in the past and their actions are integral to the established timeline, with no true element of free will.

Example: A person discovers a time machine and travels back in time to prevent a catastrophic event. However, despite their efforts, the event still occurs. Later, the same person discovers records indicating that they were always destined to fail in preventing the event, and their actions were part of a predetermined timeline.

While the concepts overlap, the bootstrap paradox is often associated with the causal loop created by sending an object or information back in time, whereas the predestination paradox may encompass a broader range of time travel scenarios where events seem predetermined.

In practice, these terms are used somewhat interchangeably, and the distinctions might not always be rigidly maintained. The key idea in both cases is that events in the past are influenced by actions from the future, creating a loop in causality.

As can be seen from the manga it is very clearly depicted that there is only a fixed / single timeline in AOT world. There is no changing past, Eren never changed past, changing past will require multiple timelines with different outcomes, however, in AOT there in only one singular timeline where Grisha killed royal family and Carla was eaten, Diana ignored Bert etc., changing past will require a timeline where Grisha never killed royal family, Bert was eaten instead of Carla and so on however, there is no evidence whatsoever of multiple timelines. It is simply a case of past events being influenced by future events thus creating a causal loop which is explained above in the definition of bootstrap paradox/predestination paradox. Eren used founders power to influence the past but the past has already happened and can not be changed.

Nov 18, 2023 4:25 AM

#23

SuperNinja02

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Feb 2021

ghier said:

Monkey_D_Uzumaki said:
It would work. It’s just a plot hole that Eren didn’t do this. Isayama didn’t think the time travel through whatsoever and it shows.

It’s a damn shame

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