Doesn't work like that though. Harming mentally is still harming a person, and a person hasn't chosen to be hurt by others, have they? It's like with physical harm. You continuing living despite harrassment is not the same. You live and are responsible for it - all your own thing, people bully and someone kills themselves - an action directed outwards causes harm. Also I don't think that it's mutually exclusive - someone's deciding to take their life doesn't excuse those who have contributed to that mental state. And sometimes it's fully their doing, because you can drive a person to nothing just by abuse. And nah, it's literally "driving to suicide" written in the law here. It's not murder, but a crime nonetheless. Having a choice is a very weak argument in itself, unless we weight that choice. Mental fortitude is also a very bad argument, cause it all depends and it's relative. I can understand the survivor's pride, but circumstances differ wildly. SadMadoka said: Verbal harassers should (in some cases) be punished, but not convicted of murder or manslaughter. That is my strong conviction. (Pun intended.) I agree that it shouldn't be directly equated to murder. Tho I don't think that OP limits it to verbal abuse. |
deadoptimistApr 19, 2018 4:44 AM
deadoptimist said: Doesn't work like that though. Harming mentally is still harming a person, and a person hasn't chosen to be hurt by others, have they? It's like with physical harm. You continuing living despite harrassment is not the same. You live and are responsible for it - all your own thing, people bully and someone kills themselves - an action directed outwards causes harm. Also I don't think that it's mutually exclusive - someone's deciding to take their life doesn't excuse those who have contributed to that mental state. And sometimes it's fully their doing, because you can drive a person to nothing just by abuse. And nah, it's literally "driving to suicide" written in the law here. It's not murder, but a crime nonetheless. Having a choice is a very weak argument in itself, unless we weight that choice. Mental fortitude is also a very bad argument, cause it all depends and it's relative. I can understand the survivor's pride, but circumstances differ wildly. I agree that it shouldn't be directly equated to murder. Tho I don't think that OP limits it to verbal abuse. Oh, I totally agree that causing such mental/emotional harm is a thing that should be punished, if it can be proven that this was the case and was done in an excessive way. But if someone on the Internet just casually tells someone to kill themselves in an argument, that's different. I still hold my position that an individual is responsible for their own actions. They could have taken any number of other actions, and other people in their life would ultimately not be responsible for that, so it's not fair to point the blame only when it is convenient. |
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| Consider a parallel wherein you tell someone to rob a bank. If the person actually does it, you are not at fault because they voluntarily robbed the bank and your influence was also non-aggressive. Because harassing someone is aggression, I would say the harasser is at fault. This conclusion comes from the first principles of the law of non-contradiction and the consistency principle. |
ポリスマンファック |
SadMadoka said: Oh, I totally agree that causing such mental/emotional harm is a thing that should be punished, if it can be proven that this was the case and was done in an excessive way. But if someone on the Internet just casually tells someone to kill themselves in an argument, that's different. I still hold my position that an individual is responsible for their own actions. They could have taken any number of other actions, and other people in their life would ultimately not be responsible for that, so it's not fair to point the blame only when it is convenient. Internet is more than real life for most though these days. It's work, entertainment, socialization. It's really time to take people accountable for what they do in it, when they seriously overstep. I mean, there're people who e-stalk or hatemail people for years, organise hate campaigns just for giggles (there was a research into one such guy, he had normal life in physical space, made internet rape campaigns in evenings), post revenge porn in the most disgusting ways (like that scandal around Neogaf, when they took private photos of exes, printed them out, ejaculated on them and took photos of the result)... Some boards of 4chan seem very, you-would-flip-you-shit-if-you- knew-your-teen-kid-visits-them level of unhealthy (the "trap farm" story, for example). The neo-nazi fad isn't endearing either. And the list goes on and on. Of course, a random internet fight with a few heated comments flying here and there shouldn't be viewed as punisheable crime. But it's wise to remember than words do harm. The risk that you may be pushing someone over the edge is real and everpresent - it's the flipside of the anonymity and freedom of the internet. In my opinion, it's necessary to drive it home that there're real people behind the screen, cause people forget this a lot or choose to ignore it, and things go south for everyone. I like flame wars myself, but in most cases you can and should tear into your opponent's arguments and/or views, not their personality, race, gender, etc. And striving to do better, even in stupid internet arguments, is the way to go. |
| The blame varies in degrees. Society as a whole is at fault, meaning the bully, the family, friends, acquaintances, and the one who committed suicide have some blame in different amounts |
iSpadeApr 19, 2018 3:29 PM
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