Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Episode 16 Discussion

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Mar 2013

20064

Midou89 said:
Subaru is such an unlikable character hope that whale swallows him whole.

What's the point, he'll just come back to life in front of the apple guy all slack jawed and the cycle will begin anew.

The only way out is some sort of actual character development that, unlike what has been happening for the last few episodes, involves him not digging a deeper grave (well, a metaphorical grave anyway) for himself.

Jul 17, 2016 5:28 PM

#454

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Kaetokiha said:

Idiotproofninja said:
The worst part is , she's right he's a fool.

He is not a foll. He is trying to save other people. He thought those bitches, whose mind you, are trying to become that country's ruler would be interested in help those in need. That's not being a fool, that's just being naive.

Crusch admitted that she believed in his story so it was not a case where she doubted him, but it was a matter of if not benefiting her.

So it just means that Subaru had too much faith in those girls and it's clear he shouldn't have any.

Do you take horrible deals that don't guarantee anything without first exploring other options? If the other options are worse then by all means take the deal. Subaru is a feet fool.

[quote=Midou89 message=46969498]

Kaetokiha said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Crusch admitted that she believed in his story so it was not a case where she doubted him, but it was a matter of if not benefiting her.

So it just means that Subaru had too much faith in those girls and it's clear he shouldn't have any.

She admitted Subaru believed it but I also think she believes Subaru is insane.

Dude fix your thing I didn't say those words You forgot to put an [//quote]

Jul 17, 2016 5:30 PM

#455

IshtaRin

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Sep 2013

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Nothing pissed me more than Anastasia, if i were suburu i would gladly die once just to punch her face.... i don't mind that she refused suburu or manipulated him, i just loath the type that have loss and gain mindset. i just hope she find her self in a situation where she needs help but can't offer anything in return maybe then she will know the value of kindness.

out of the three girls she wins the title "bitch of the year".

Jul 17, 2016 5:30 PM

#456

notsomacho

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If I were Subaru I'd give up on Emilia. No one cares for him or appreciates his efforts aside from Rem. Why bother? Why not just say fuck it and go find something more enjoyable. It's not worth the torture

Jul 17, 2016 5:30 PM

#457

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Jul 2016

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[quote=Jagd84 message=46969280]

Connections said:

Jagd84 said:

You spew a bunch of crap here. Maybe you if stop taking context out of his actions just because you don't like them, maybe you would actually understand something. Reacting to different situations doesn't not make biploar. All his of his emotions action have reason behind.

Well thanks for the personal insult. What exactly is his reason for going to the royal selection/dragon priestess ceremony? What foreseeable event could he have possibly prevented by being at that ceremony? Keep in mind that in both that episode and after that episode he stated that he is either pathetic or helpless (to Rem after and to Emilia before). Reacting to different situations doesn't make someone bipolar but swapping between depressive (after he finds out that the mansion gets burned down) moods and manic moods (as he shows with his rants during the dragon priestess ceremony) does. It might be due to the repeated deaths but it doesn't make him not bipolar.

I don't made no ad hominem so don't pull that victim crap. I'm saying your previous post is just pulling out random scenarios without context to justify you point. Every reason he might acted in one way or another established in those very scenes themselves but you turn a blind eye to them anyway.

Here I'll address each of points and you go back verify yourself.

Well thanks for the personal insult. What exactly is his reason for going to the royal selection/dragon priestess ceremony? What foreseeable event could he have possibly prevented by being at that ceremony?

Because as he said himself, Emilia tons of enemies in the capital because of her position. That what his experience with Elsa taught. He's only ever been about to help her because he right there in the thick of it things to gain information to solve the problems. He says this himself back in episode 12. You may or may not agree but that is not the point which is the fact he had reason and acted on it.

Keep in mind that in both that episode and after that episode he stated that he is either pathetic or helpless (to Rem after and to Emilia before)/quote]

Except he never said that. He said he's only used when he's an place where something might happen.

Reacting to different situations doesn't make someone bipolar but swapping between depressive (after he finds out that the mansion gets burned down) moods and manic moods (as he shows with his rants during the dragon priestess ceremony) does. It might be due to the repeated deaths but it doesn't make him not bipolar

Don't know what bipolar means. How supposed to react to deaths everyone he knew? How is supposed to react to brutal murder of Rem?

Again the stuff you bring all had context and circumstance lend to his reactions. I.e He got angry minsters at ceremony because they were shouting racist remark and whine about Emilia with giving her a chance to speak up. I don't care if you ignore them. It doesn't' mean they don't exist and you inability or unwillingness to see that isn't my problem or the shows.

Ok firstly "Maybe you if stop taking context out of his actions just because you don't like them, maybe you would actually understand something" is a personal insult again me, rather than "You are taking things out of context" which is much shorter and without implying anything against me.

Second, the thing with Elsa and the assassins. Ok I don't agree with his concept of "They need me there" perhaps because I think the clown, the mage, the spirit familiar, and pretty much every knight in the realm could fend off the assassins he is making up.

Yes he has stated that he is pathetic, on multiple occasions, once after the fight at the forest when he was with Emilia (and she had to confort him) and once after when he got knocked out by Wilhelm and is in her lap.

Being bipolar just means you go through depressive lows punctuated with manic highs. Aside from learning it in a psychology class, google has pretty good definition.

I am taking things in context, I'm also saying that he is going through very expressive states and very depressed states (which you seem to think I'm saying it's his fault... but I'm just saying I'd prefer he use his experiences to better his situation rather than digging himself deeper).

Jul 17, 2016 5:30 PM

#458

Iron_Maw

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Kaetokiha said:

Idiotproofninja said:
The worst part is , she's right he's a fool.

He is not a foll. He is trying to save other people. He thought those bitches, whose mind you, are trying to become that country's ruler would be interested in help those in need. That's not being a fool, that's just being naive.

Crusch admitted that she believed in his story so it was not a case where she doubted him, but it was a matter of if not benefiting her.

So it just means that Subaru had too much faith in those girls and it's clear he shouldn't have any.

Exactly. But Idiotproofninja clearly like twist things and thinks the average person some superhero who has right tools at the right time.

Jul 17, 2016 5:31 PM

#459

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Idiotproofninja said:

Kaetokiha said:

He is not a foll. He is trying to save other people. He thought those bitches, whose mind you, are trying to become that country's ruler would be interested in help those in need. That's not being a fool, that's just being naive.

Crusch admitted that she believed in his story so it was not a case where she doubted him, but it was a matter of if not benefiting her.

So it just means that Subaru had too much faith in those girls and it's clear he shouldn't have any.

Do you take horrible deals that don't guarantee anything without first exploring other options? If the other options are worse then by all means take the deal. Subaru is a feet fool.

Subaru IS a fool.

But I still do not agree with the ''other options'' thing. I mean, seriously? Yea, it makes you seem like you have no pride and honor. But licking a foot to have everyone you like saved? How is that a bad deal?

You do something that won't affect you mentally or physically for literally 2 seconds and you get to kill the witch's cult ( or at least get help to try doing so ). How is that a bad deal?

Jul 17, 2016 5:32 PM

#460

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RinFTW said:
Nothing pissed me more than Anastasia, if i were suburu i would gladly die once just to punch her face.... i don't mind that she refused suburu or manipulated him, i just loath the type that have loss and gain mindset. i just hope she find her self in a situation where she needs help but can't offer anything in return maybe then she will know the value of kindness.

out of the three girls she wins the title "bitch of the year".

You hope she meets Rance then.

Jagd84 said:

Kaetokiha said:

He is not a foll. He is trying to save other people. He thought those bitches, whose mind you, are trying to become that country's ruler would be interested in help those in need. That's not being a fool, that's just being naive.

Crusch admitted that she believed in his story so it was not a case where she doubted him, but it was a matter of if not benefiting her.

So it just means that Subaru had too much faith in those girls and it's clear he shouldn't have any.

Exactly. But Idiotproofninja clearly like twist things and thinks the average person some superhero who has right tools at the right time.

I didn't know regular people could timetravel when they die.

AmejiHunter said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Do you take horrible deals that don't guarantee anything without first exploring other options? If the other options are worse then by all means take the deal. Subaru is a feet fool.

Subaru IS a fool.

But I still do not agree with the ''other options'' thing. I mean, seriously? Yea, it makes you seem like you have no pride and honor. But licking a foot to have everyone you like saved? How is that a bad deal?

You do something that won't affect you mentally or physically for literally 2 seconds and you get to kill the witch's cult ( or at least get help to try doing so ). How is that a bad deal?

Maybe you like feet. I don't. Remember it doesn't guarantee success as I said. She said she'll consider it. She didn't put it into writing that if you did that she'll send people to save Emilia.

Jul 17, 2016 5:32 PM

#461

jjihhye

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tbh i would love to see the spoon animated. it will be one hell of a hilarious scene.

Jul 17, 2016 5:32 PM

#462

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[quote=Midou89 message=46969498]

Kaetokiha said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Crusch admitted that she believed in his story so it was not a case where she doubted him, but it was a matter of if not benefiting her.

So it just means that Subaru had too much faith in those girls and it's clear he shouldn't have any.

She admitted Subaru believed it but I also think she believes Subaru is insane.

She's not wrong in that belief. It would have been more insane to go along with what he wanted. Was nice of her to hear him out at least.

Jul 17, 2016 5:33 PM

#463

mohamedgx

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Jun 2016

22

Midou89 said:
Subaru is such an unlikable character hope that whale swallows him whole.

you just want another shallow pretty boys mc, immature idiot, find another anime, leave and never come back

Jul 17, 2016 5:33 PM

#464

Kokorowagurasu

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Jun 2016

161

Probabbly the reason why subaru got so humiliated this episode is that he's gonna die and redo shit with an actual plan. At least I hope so, I like the MC but man, the whole reseting thing will get old if the MC don't progress.

Jul 17, 2016 5:34 PM

#465

AngryCritic2

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Jun 2015

11

The things he did this time could really help him negotiate with the 4 bitches next reset (assuming he dies). I really want to see Subaru own them in a negotiation.

Jul 17, 2016 5:34 PM

#466

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mohamedgx said:

Midou89 said:
Subaru is such an unlikable character hope that whale swallows him whole.

you just want another shallow pretty boys mc, immature idiot, find another anime, leave and never come back

Damn, relax man. The MC is unlikable, but I somehow like him being unlikable...

Does that make sense?

Jul 17, 2016 5:35 PM

#467

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Dec 2015

725

Kokorohagurasu said:
Probabbly the reason why subaru got so humiliated this episode is that he's gonna die and redo shit with an actual plan. At least I hope so, I like the MC but man, the whole reseting thing will get old if the MC don't progress.

I'm guessing at least another 2 deaths before he suddenly has an epiphany.

Jul 17, 2016 5:35 PM

#468

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Mar 2013

20064

RinFTW said:
Nothing pissed me more than Anastasia, if i were suburu i would gladly die once just to punch her face.... i don't mind that she refused suburu or manipulated him, i just loath the type that have loss and gain mindset. i just hope she find her self in a situation where she needs help but can't offer anything in return maybe then she will know the value of kindness.

out of the three girls she wins the title "bitch of the year".

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Gotta make a living somehow, and hey, at least she creates jobs.

Unfortunately charity doesn't pay the bills.

Jul 17, 2016 5:36 PM

#469

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725

AngryCritic2 said:
The things he did this time could really help him negotiate with the 4 bitches next reset (assuming he dies). I really want to see Subaru own them in a negotiation.

That would actually involve sitting down and thinking. You are asking too much.

Jul 17, 2016 5:36 PM

#470

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Jagd84 said:

Idiotproofninja said:

I'd still go with using the RFD for gambling and making a crap ton of money. Then figuring out what to do once I have it. Gambling takes less than an hr if you know how to win every single bet.

RL People at least try a lot harder because they got one shot and if they acted like Subaru in a business deal, GG. People will bring their clients to places they know their clients like to eat at etc. I'm not trying to be smartass but when someone offers you a shit deal you don't take it. You go to other people first and if thats the best deal you can get you take it. That's common sense but Subaru love feet.

Jesus, it's like I'm talking to wall. Whenever in this episode was not trying his hardest? When came to those candidates he could literally only offer what he had which is good will and his position in Emilia's camp. He's not richman or owns land. He's doing what any normal poor person would do.

Ok, we aren't saying he isn't trying. We are saying he isn't being smart about it. It might be his personality. It might be how he reacts to certain situations. But for the past 3 pages on this discussion thread, it seems like Subaru is the only character everyone is arguing over. There are people who say that the author intended for Subaru to be hated these past few episodes. We aren't saying that he can personally do better. We are saying his personality/ability to reason absolutely sucks.

Jul 17, 2016 5:36 PM

#471

Fayt89

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Aug 2013

276

mohamedgx said:

Midou89 said:
Subaru is such an unlikable character hope that whale swallows him whole.

you just want another shallow pretty boys mc, immature idiot, find another anime, leave and never come back

When did I say I hate the show?

I enjoy watching Subaru get what is coming to him

So how about you piss off with the insult okay?

Jul 17, 2016 5:37 PM

#472

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Connections said:

Jagd84 said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Connections said:

AironicallyHuman said:

Idiotproofninja said:
You mean like Edge of Tomorrow and Groundhog , where the MCs grow and learn and more importantly use their brains?

In 'All You Need Is Kill' / Edge of Tomorrow, the lead is killed over and over - 100's of times - until he became desensitised. He had no choice. In Groundhog Day there's no suicide/death.

As for there being no growth I was referring to relationships with other characters. The lead in a neverending time loop would grow himself and learn more about others, but there's different from establishing and building a relationship with someone, imperfections and all. There has to be a balance between resets and failure or it would paint an unrealistic picture of the character's interactions with others.

Ok, but that's it. You should have a balance. I'm not saying kill yourself at every little mistake; but not knowing how to fight/basics of negotiation/making a fool out of yourself and the person you support in front of the entire government/not getting help from 3 potential allies because you were an idiot, all seem like reasonable reasons to restart the day when you know that everyone you love is going to get screwed in 3 days.

I'd still go with using the RFD for gambling and making a crap ton of money. Then figuring out what to do once I have it. Gambling takes less than an hr if you know how to win every single bet.

Jagd84 said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Jagd84 said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Rehls said:

Idiotproofninja said:

TonyJ said:

leNerd said:

AmejiHunter said:

And for the whale, Rem said it creates a fog fromw hich no one comes back

Ok thanks for the reminder. Guess well see another reset then

Well, we don't know if the respawn of Return By Death will work this time if he gets beaten by the White Whale. THe Whale seems to be able to erase someone's existence, and that's another level. Death is one thing. Get erased from existence? That means everything you've done has never happened, that you've never existed. I'm not sure about Subaru being unaffected by that.

You underestimate the power of plot armor

You underestimate the improbability of it being used.

As much as I want a new MC , hopefully one that uses their brains more. It won't happen.

Good. You go your perfect heros, I like one that has actually learn from the world and grow into a hero. He's already put some of that into practice.

He just learned the basics of how to negotiate with people. Something anyone that has bargained with their parents knows. Find out what the other party wants. Offer them what they want in exchange for what you want.

This literal does not matter to what I'm saying. It's not he hasn't negotiated anything before, he did just with Felt back in arc 1. What he's learning here is how maneuver things into what you want in much more complex manner using multiple angles it is far harder to do then make it out to be since even people IRL repeatedly fail at. So don't try to be smart.

RL People at least try a lot harder because they got one shot and if they acted like Subaru in a business deal, GG. People will bring their clients to places they know their clients like to eat at etc. I'm not trying to be smartass but when someone offers you a shit deal you don't take it. You go to other people first and if thats the best deal you can get you take it. That's common sense but Subaru love feet.

Jesus, it's like I'm talking to wall. Whenever in this episode was not trying his hardest? When came to those candidates he could literally only offer what he had which is good will and his position in Emilia's camp. He's not richman or owns land. He's doing what any normal poor person would do.

Ok, we aren't saying he isn't trying. We are saying he isn't being smart about it. It might be his personality. It might be how he reacts to certain situations. But for the past 3 pages on this discussion thread, it seems like Subaru is the only character everyone is arguing over. There are people who say that the author intended for Subaru to be hated these past few episodes. We aren't saying that he can personally do better. We are saying his personality/ability to reason absolutely sucks.

It does suck, and it's what I believe is so great about him. Honestly.

Jul 17, 2016 5:37 PM

#473

KaeUBW

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May 2012

741

Idiotproofninja said:

I'd still go with using the RFD for gambling and making a crap ton of money. Then figuring out what to do once I have it. Gambling takes less than an hr if you know how to win every single bet.

Gambling...yeah what smart choice. He would make a bet 3 times and lose. Then he would die make the first bet and win, but who can guarantee he would win the second bet? Everything changes depending on his actions. He would have to kill himself countless of times to try something like that and i doubt anyone would want to keep commenting suicide that much.

Then what? Hire some thugs to fight those cultists. Those guys killed even Rem so it's obvious he needs better help than some thugs laying around.

I find this idea so stupid. The irony is you calling him a fool while having this foolish idea.

I despise woke people.

Jul 17, 2016 5:38 PM

#474

AironicallyHuman

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Jun 2007

2253

My bad about Groundhog day: it's been many years and only watched it once. Seems I remember the start and not the rest.

AmejiHunter said:

The author isn't trying to make us like Subaru.

Sometimes, it's good to have an unlikable character/MC. It can work.

Whenever there is a flawed character like Subaru, the fanbase of *insert anime here* generally dislike them intensely. Whether it's Shinji Ikari or, more recently, Rygart in Break Blade, if a character does not instinctively do the heroic thing or makes bad choices, they get a lot of hate. But I have always found broken, imperfect characters to be far more realistic and human than fictional heroes. Subaru is an idiot and a NEET in the real world--it'd be more surprising if things weren't going this badly, by far.

fst said:
The only way out is some sort of actual character development that, unlike what has been happening for the last few episodes, involves him not digging a deeper grave (well, a metaphorical grave anyway) for himself.

...Isn't the ultimate point of this arc for Subaru to learn his lesson in the long-run as he rebuilds his relationship with Emilia/learns to depend on others? I've been viewing every episode since 13 as the foundation for a shift in his characterisation, with ep16 being his latest lesson. 'Pride before a fall' and all that.

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Jul 17, 2016 5:38 PM

#475

Devil_Slayer

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Jul 2014

1058

notsomacho said:
If I were Subaru I'd give up on Emilia. No one cares for him or appreciates his efforts aside from Rem. Why bother? Why not just say fuck it and go find something more enjoyable. It's not worth the torture

That how heathy logic goes but you won't have a plot then xD
also it's not just for emillia he's doing it for everyone there also that the place he belong too as of right now so if he aband them there no place for him in ther world xD

well there always rem but you know , it won't work for the sotry if he decide to say fuck everthing

Jul 17, 2016 5:40 PM

#476

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AironicallyHuman said:
My bad about Groundhog day: it's been many years and only watched it once. Seems I remember the start and not the rest.

AmejiHunter said:

The author isn't trying to make us like Subaru.

Sometimes, it's good to have an unlikable character/MC. It can work.

Whenever there is a flawed character like Subaru, the fanbase of *insert anime here* generally dislike them intensely. Whether it's Shinji Ikari or, more recently, Rygart in Break Blade, if a character does not instinctively do the heroic thing or makes bad choices, they get a lot of hate. But I have always found broken, imperfect characters to be far more realistic and human than fictional heroes. Subaru is an idiot and a NEET in the real world--it'd be more surprising if things weren't going this badly, by far..

Yeah, exactly. But people want a likable character for X reason. I just think characters that you like aren't as interesting because you're almost always going to agree with what they do... It's far more interesting to disagree with what they do.

Jul 17, 2016 5:41 PM

#477

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725

Kaetokiha said:

Idiotproofninja said:

I'd still go with using the RFD for gambling and making a crap ton of money. Then figuring out what to do once I have it. Gambling takes less than an hr if you know how to win every single bet.

Gambling...yeah what smart choice. He would make a bet 3 times and lose. Then he would die make the first bet and win, but who can guarantee he would win the second bet? Everything changes depending on his actions. He would have to kill himself countless of times to try something like that and i doubt anyone would want to keep commenting suicide that much.

Then what? Hire some thugs to fight those cultists. Those guys killed even Rem so it's obvious he needs better help than some thugs laying around.

I find this idea so stupid. The irony is you calling him a fool while having this foolish idea.

Come up with another way to raise huge amount of money in hours with time travel then. Gambling is a good choice. All he needs is to watch the clock and bet at the right time. The Last girl said her army was a merc army. That means they might save Emilia if the price is right.

Jul 17, 2016 5:43 PM

#478

pteroz

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Nov 2011

209

Idiotproofninja said:

RinFTW said:
Nothing pissed me more than Anastasia, if i were suburu i would gladly die once just to punch her face.... i don't mind that she refused suburu or manipulated him, i just loath the type that have loss and gain mindset. i just hope she find her self in a situation where she needs help but can't offer anything in return maybe then she will know the value of kindness.

out of the three girls she wins the title "bitch of the year".

You hope she meets Rance then.

Jagd84 said:

Exactly. But Idiotproofninja clearly like twist things and thinks the average person some superhero who has right tools at the right time.

I didn't know regular people could timetravel when they die.

AmejiHunter said:

Subaru IS a fool.

But I still do not agree with the ''other options'' thing. I mean, seriously? Yea, it makes you seem like you have no pride and honor. But licking a foot to have everyone you like saved? How is that a bad deal?

You do something that won't affect you mentally or physically for literally 2 seconds and you get to kill the witch's cult ( or at least get help to try doing so ). How is that a bad deal?

Maybe you like feet. I don't. Remember it doesn't guarantee success as I said. She said she'll consider it. She didn't put it into writing that if you did that she'll send people to save Emilia.

Subaru don't like feet either, but he likes the people he want to save more. Even if it's not guaranteed, it's legit to try all he could to save them.
If he didn't lick it, people would say in this topic "maybe if you lick this feet, you would have save everyone dumbass". Now there we are ...

Jul 17, 2016 5:43 PM

#479

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Jul 2018

564534

Idiotproofninja said:

Kaetokiha said:

Gambling...yeah what smart choice. He would make a bet 3 times and lose. Then he would die make the first bet and win, but who can guarantee he would win the second bet? Everything changes depending on his actions. He would have to kill himself countless of times to try something like that and i doubt anyone would want to keep commenting suicide that much.

Then what? Hire some thugs to fight those cultists. Those guys killed even Rem so it's obvious he needs better help than some thugs laying around.

I find this idea so stupid. The irony is you calling him a fool while having this foolish idea.

Come up with another way to raise huge amount of money in hours with time travel then. Gambling is a good choice. All he needs is to watch the clock and bet at the right time. The Last girl said her army was a merc army. That means they might save Emilia if the price is right.

Oh, forgot about the merc army. Does seem way more of a good idea like that.
Although the same thing happens. Subaru isn't you, so he doesn't think like you. As long as you don't pull off some ''that means Subaru is a bad character'', I won't really have much of a problem with what you say haha

Jul 17, 2016 5:43 PM

#480

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Dec 2015

725

AmejiHunter said:

AironicallyHuman said:
My bad about Groundhog day: it's been many years and only watched it once. Seems I remember the start and not the rest.

Whenever there is a flawed character like Subaru, the fanbase of *insert anime here* generally dislike them intensely. Whether it's Shinji Ikari or, more recently, Rygart in Break Blade, if a character does not instinctively do the heroic thing or makes bad choices, they get a lot of hate. But I have always found broken, imperfect characters to be far more realistic and human than fictional heroes. Subaru is an idiot and a NEET in the real world--it'd be more surprising if things weren't going this badly, by far..

Yeah, exactly. But people want a likable character for X reason. I just think characters that you like aren't as interesting because you're almost always going to agree with what they do... It's far more interesting to disagree with what they do.

I don't think most people agree with anything Rance does, he's still more likeable than Subaru.

AmejiHunter said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Come up with another way to raise huge amount of money in hours with time travel then. Gambling is a good choice. All he needs is to watch the clock and bet at the right time. The Last girl said her army was a merc army. That means they might save Emilia if the price is right.

Oh, forgot about the merc army. Does seem way more of a good idea like that.
Although the same thing happens. Subaru isn't you, so he doesn't think like you. As long as you don't pull off some ''that means Subaru is a bad character'', I won't really have much of a problem with what you say haha

I don't judge characters on a good/bad scale. Well written or not is another topic. Likability is different from being a Good/Bad Character.

Jul 17, 2016 5:45 PM

#481

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Jul 2016

31

AmejiHunter said:

AironicallyHuman said:
My bad about Groundhog day: it's been many years and only watched it once. Seems I remember the start and not the rest.

Whenever there is a flawed character like Subaru, the fanbase of *insert anime here* generally dislike them intensely. Whether it's Shinji Ikari or, more recently, Rygart in Break Blade, if a character does not instinctively do the heroic thing or makes bad choices, they get a lot of hate. But I have always found broken, imperfect characters to be far more realistic and human than fictional heroes. Subaru is an idiot and a NEET in the real world--it'd be more surprising if things weren't going this badly, by far..

Yeah, exactly. But people want a likable character for X reason. I just think characters that you like aren't as interesting because you're almost always going to agree with what they do... It's far more interesting to disagree with what they do.

Ok, being a flawed character and a likable character is not mutually exclusive. Is it too hard to find a character who is both likable and flawed? No it isn't... Felt is both likable and flawed, so is the Archbishop of Sloth, he is hilarious, completely batshit insane, but still likable, Rem has an inferiority complex but is still likable. I have to disagree with Crusch, but I still like her on a character level. Why is it so hard for the person who is going to have 80+% of the screen time to be likable

Jul 17, 2016 5:45 PM

#482

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Jul 2018

564534

AmejiHunter said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Do you take horrible deals that don't guarantee anything without first exploring other options? If the other options are worse then by all means take the deal. Subaru is a feet fool.

Subaru IS a fool.

But I still do not agree with the ''other options'' thing. I mean, seriously? Yea, it makes you seem like you have no pride and honor. But licking a foot to have everyone you like saved? How is that a bad deal?

You do something that won't affect you mentally or physically for literally 2 seconds and you get to kill the witch's cult ( or at least get help to try doing so ). How is that a bad deal?

Maybe you like feet. I don't. Remember it doesn't guarantee success as I said. She said she'll consider it. She didn't put it into writing that if you did that she'll send people to save Emilia.[/quote]

Considering it is enough. If she considers it for something you took 2 seconds to do, it's already a good thing. What do you prefer? Her NOT doing anything or her MAYBE not doing anything?

Jul 17, 2016 5:46 PM

#483

Ledo-kun

Offline

Jun 2015

348

The intentions of Subaru is nowhere near wrong but I just really hate the way he's been doing things for the past few episodes. I mean, yeah, it's not like he has other options. He can't really tell other people how he knows that many people are gonna die but y'know, why does he keep on doing things that make him waste another life? He already went through horrible sufferings yet he still makes stupid decisions and makes everyone(especially my darling Rem) worry about him. Idk I just find him totally unlikable right now. Hopefully there's some kind of development in the future episodes.

Jul 17, 2016 5:47 PM

#484

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Dec 2015

725

AmejiHunter said:

Subaru IS a fool.

But I still do not agree with the ''other options'' thing. I mean, seriously? Yea, it makes you seem like you have no pride and honor. But licking a foot to have everyone you like saved? How is that a bad deal?

You do something that won't affect you mentally or physically for literally 2 seconds and you get to kill the witch's cult ( or at least get help to try doing so ). How is that a bad deal?

Maybe you like feet. I don't. Remember it doesn't guarantee success as I said. She said she'll consider it. She didn't put it into writing that if you did that she'll send people to save Emilia.

Considering it is enough. If she considers it for something you took 2 seconds to do, it's already a good thing. What do you prefer? Her NOT doing anything or her MAYBE not doing anything?[/quote]

I believe in writing when it comes to contracts. Verbal contracts unless enforced by a court of law are easily broken.

If I told you I would give you 1000$ tomorrow if you gave me 100$. Would you prefer it in writing signed or just a verbal contract?

Jul 17, 2016 5:48 PM

#485

Offline

Mar 2013

20064

Connections said:

Jagd84 said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Connections said:

AironicallyHuman said:

Idiotproofninja said:
You mean like Edge of Tomorrow and Groundhog , where the MCs grow and learn and more importantly use their brains?

In 'All You Need Is Kill' / Edge of Tomorrow, the lead is killed over and over - 100's of times - until he became desensitised. He had no choice. In Groundhog Day there's no suicide/death.

As for there being no growth I was referring to relationships with other characters. The lead in a neverending time loop would grow himself and learn more about others, but there's different from establishing and building a relationship with someone, imperfections and all. There has to be a balance between resets and failure or it would paint an unrealistic picture of the character's interactions with others.

Ok, but that's it. You should have a balance. I'm not saying kill yourself at every little mistake; but not knowing how to fight/basics of negotiation/making a fool out of yourself and the person you support in front of the entire government/not getting help from 3 potential allies because you were an idiot, all seem like reasonable reasons to restart the day when you know that everyone you love is going to get screwed in 3 days.

I'd still go with using the RFD for gambling and making a crap ton of money. Then figuring out what to do once I have it. Gambling takes less than an hr if you know how to win every single bet.

Jagd84 said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Jagd84 said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Rehls said:

Idiotproofninja said:

TonyJ said:

leNerd said:

AmejiHunter said:

And for the whale, Rem said it creates a fog fromw hich no one comes back

Ok thanks for the reminder. Guess well see another reset then

Well, we don't know if the respawn of Return By Death will work this time if he gets beaten by the White Whale. THe Whale seems to be able to erase someone's existence, and that's another level. Death is one thing. Get erased from existence? That means everything you've done has never happened, that you've never existed. I'm not sure about Subaru being unaffected by that.

You underestimate the power of plot armor

You underestimate the improbability of it being used.

As much as I want a new MC , hopefully one that uses their brains more. It won't happen.

Good. You go your perfect heros, I like one that has actually learn from the world and grow into a hero. He's already put some of that into practice.

He just learned the basics of how to negotiate with people. Something anyone that has bargained with their parents knows. Find out what the other party wants. Offer them what they want in exchange for what you want.

This literal does not matter to what I'm saying. It's not he hasn't negotiated anything before, he did just with Felt back in arc 1. What he's learning here is how maneuver things into what you want in much more complex manner using multiple angles it is far harder to do then make it out to be since even people IRL repeatedly fail at. So don't try to be smart.

RL People at least try a lot harder because they got one shot and if they acted like Subaru in a business deal, GG. People will bring their clients to places they know their clients like to eat at etc. I'm not trying to be smartass but when someone offers you a shit deal you don't take it. You go to other people first and if thats the best deal you can get you take it. That's common sense but Subaru love feet.

Jesus, it's like I'm talking to wall. Whenever in this episode was not trying his hardest? When came to those candidates he could literally only offer what he had which is good will and his position in Emilia's camp. He's not richman or owns land. He's doing what any normal poor person would do.

Ok, we aren't saying he isn't trying. We are saying he isn't being smart about it. It might be his personality. It might be how he reacts to certain situations. But for the past 3 pages on this discussion thread, it seems like Subaru is the only character everyone is arguing over. There are people who say that the author intended for Subaru to be hated these past few episodes. We aren't saying that he can personally do better. We are saying his personality/ability to reason absolutely sucks.

Well, him not being smart about it isn't much of a statement for us to be making, as the show itself is quite clear on that point. I think it's quite clear that he is intended to be disliked, or at the very least, we are not meant to think well of his actions; why else would pretty much every other character in the series be laying it on him so hard?

The thing is, watching him scream and rage and then bumble around doing nothing useful isn't fun to watch, especially when he wasn't nearly this stupid or annoying in general in the other arcs.

Now, some people, insist that this is actually a good thing for the show, and anybody who says otherwise is just a dumbass who can't sympathize or understand his actions, that this makes for a more interesting character because he's not some marty stu that accomplishes anything without facing a challenge or because it will lead to interesting character development (ie. learn and grow type of thing) later on.

If you like watching this shit, ok, but not everybody is going to because there are a number of decidedly unlikable elements which are played up very, very hard.

These elements (Subaru's personality) were always present; but they were never as annoying as they have been in the last few episodes. And even if we understand why he is the way he is, it doesn't make it any less annoying to watch. Any development or character growth or struggling and overcoming, appears a far, far way off because he hasn't made shit for progress in the last few loops; if anything he's digging himself deeper into his grave. This can't continue forever, and maybe when it's all over the payoff will be worth it, but as there's no llight at the end of the tunnel yet, so to speak. Furthermore, while he may not be some super perfect onii-sama level main character, I would argue he's the same thing, just the opposite in that he can't succeed. Even when he has the opportunity to, he finds some way to sabotage himself and kill that possibility. In a way, he's about as bad of a character as Kirito or Onii-sama.

So, despite a shitload of back and forth, not everybody can accept that while some people might like the current course that the show is taking, others might have a justifiable reason not to.

And thus this thread grows at a rate of like 10 posts a minute.

Jul 17, 2016 5:48 PM

#486

FrozenRaider

Offline

May 2015

5885

good stuff my friend, good stuff.

"The future is always blank. Only your willpower can leave footsteps there."

"Ruling over death means ruling over life. Death is the climax of life. To have the best death, you must honor life."

Jul 17, 2016 5:49 PM

#487

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Jul 2018

564534

Connections said:

AmejiHunter said:

Yeah, exactly. But people want a likable character for X reason. I just think characters that you like aren't as interesting because you're almost always going to agree with what they do... It's far more interesting to disagree with what they do.

Ok, being a flawed character and a likable character is not mutually exclusive. Is it too hard to find a character who is both likable and flawed? No it isn't... Felt is both likable and flawed, so is the Archbishop of Sloth, he is hilarious, completely batshit insane, but still likable, Rem has an inferiority complex but is still likable. I have to disagree with Crusch, but I still like her on a character level. Why is it so hard for the person who is going to have 80+% of the screen time to be likable

I'm not saying Subaru is a better character than those who are flawed and likable. I'm just saying that most people's complaints are about him being stupid/dumb and them not liking him, but I believe that's just ridiculous judgment.

I'm not saying Subaru being likable would be a bad thing, but I'm not saying it would be better either. I think the way Subaru is right now makes a lot of why I like the anime so much, and why I believe it's so great.

Idiotproofninja said:

I don't think most people agree with anything Rance does, he's still more likeable than Subaru.

( Who is Rance? )

Rance isn't Subaru, and he must not be as liked as Luffy ( to One Piece fans ) or Natsu ( to Fairy tail fans ) if people do not agree with what he does.

I mean, I know that liking a character doesn't mean you're going to agree with what they do, but there's more chances you agree with them if you like them.

Jul 17, 2016 5:50 PM

#488

pteroz

Offline

Nov 2011

209

I'm I the only one who think that Subaru's fall was all planned by the witch? She has something to do with the seven deadly sins, and Subaru seems like collecting them all like trophies >_<.
I want to look him hate the world of re;zero, take control of the cultist and rekt all those candidate who reject him <3

Jul 17, 2016 5:50 PM

#489

KaeUBW

Offline

May 2012

741

Idiotproofninja said:

Kaetokiha said:

He is not a foll. He is trying to save other people. He thought those bitches, whose mind you, are trying to become that country's ruler would be interested in help those in need. That's not being a fool, that's just being naive.

Crusch admitted that she believed in his story so it was not a case where she doubted him, but it was a matter of if not benefiting her.

So it just means that Subaru had too much faith in those girls and it's clear he shouldn't have any.

Do you take horrible deals that don't guarantee anything without first exploring other options? If the other options are worse then by all means take the deal. Subaru is a feet fool.

Yeah exploring other options. Let us see...

"i'm here on this world that i know very little of, but i know some people who are going to get slaughtered and i want to help them.

I can go around killing myself and make bets on a casino or i can talk to the most powerful people i got acquainted with and ask them for help."

Which plan sounds more stupid to you?

Notice he only talked with Anastasia by chance, he didn't went after her. He went after Priscilla because he had some time with her already and Crusch was helping him so they were his best bets.

I despise woke people.

Jul 17, 2016 5:51 PM

#490

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Mar 2013

20064

AironicallyHuman said:

fst said:
The only way out is some sort of actual character development that, unlike what has been happening for the last few episodes, involves him not digging a deeper grave (well, a metaphorical grave anyway) for himself.

...Isn't the ultimate point of this arc for Subaru to learn his lesson in the long-run as he rebuilds his relationship with Emilia/learns to depend on others? I've been viewing every episode since 13 as the foundation for a shift in his characterisation, with ep16 being his latest lesson. 'Pride before a fall' and all that.

I should hope that's the direction it's supposed to go in... I mean it seems quite obvious that's the point, but until the show actually makes good on it you can't say for sure. But it's been like 4 episodes and it seems we're still on the fall part. Hopefully I'm wrong about that, because my cringe tolerance is limited.

Jul 17, 2016 5:52 PM

#491

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Jul 2018

564534

Idiotproofninja said:

AmejiHunter said:

Maybe you like feet. I don't. Remember it doesn't guarantee success as I said. She said she'll consider it. She didn't put it into writing that if you did that she'll send people to save Emilia.

Considering it is enough. If she considers it for something you took 2 seconds to do, it's already a good thing. What do you prefer? Her NOT doing anything or her MAYBE not doing anything?

I believe in writing when it comes to contracts. Verbal contracts unless enforced by a court of law are easily broken.

If I told you I would give you 1000$ tomorrow if you gave me 100$. Would you prefer it in writing signed or just a verbal contract?[/quote]

Not the same thing at all.
If you told me ''I will give you 1000$ tomorrow if you give me 100$'', yes I would prefer it in writing.
If you told me ''I will consider giving you 1000$ tomorrow if you give me 100$'', I would just cancel the deal.

The thing is, yes, I cancel because you said ''consider''. But that's because you consider it when I actually LOSE something.

Priscilla might only consider it, but Subaru doesn't really lose anything, except for pride/honor which he already has lost. It's not like she said ''I'll consider it if you give me 100$''.

Jul 17, 2016 5:53 PM

#492

Offline

Dec 2015

725

AmejiHunter said:

Connections said:

Ok, being a flawed character and a likable character is not mutually exclusive. Is it too hard to find a character who is both likable and flawed? No it isn't... Felt is both likable and flawed, so is the Archbishop of Sloth, he is hilarious, completely batshit insane, but still likable, Rem has an inferiority complex but is still likable. I have to disagree with Crusch, but I still like her on a character level. Why is it so hard for the person who is going to have 80+% of the screen time to be likable

I'm not saying Subaru is a better character than those who are flawed and likable. I'm just saying that most people's complaints are about him being stupid/dumb and them not liking him, but I believe that's just ridiculous judgment.

I'm not saying Subaru being likable would be a bad thing, but I'm not saying it would be better either. I think the way Subaru is right now makes a lot of why I like the anime so much, and why I believe it's so great.

Idiotproofninja said:

I don't think most people agree with anything Rance does, he's still more likeable than Subaru.

( Who is Rance? )

Rance isn't Subaru, and he must not be as liked as Luffy ( to One Piece fans ) or Natsu ( to Fairy tail fans ) if people do not agree with what he does.

I mean, I know that liking a character doesn't mean you're going to agree with what they do, but there's more chances you agree with them if you like them.

Google Rance.

My thoughts on Subaru, Do I think he's well written, as a dumbass who doesn't know what he's doing and obsessed with a girl. He's written intentionally that way so no complaints. Do I like him? No. Do I think he's a great character? Too soon to judge

Jul 17, 2016 5:55 PM

#493

yamen

Offline

Aug 2013

199

Subaru is tolerable this episode :3
These fails should teach him a good lesson now.looking forward seeing how will he handle things now

The closer you get to the light,the greater your shadow becomes.

Jul 17, 2016 5:56 PM

#494

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Jul 2018

564534

Idiotproofninja said:

AmejiHunter said:

I'm not saying Subaru is a better character than those who are flawed and likable. I'm just saying that most people's complaints are about him being stupid/dumb and them not liking him, but I believe that's just ridiculous judgment.

I'm not saying Subaru being likable would be a bad thing, but I'm not saying it would be better either. I think the way Subaru is right now makes a lot of why I like the anime so much, and why I believe it's so great.

( Who is Rance? )

Rance isn't Subaru, and he must not be as liked as Luffy ( to One Piece fans ) or Natsu ( to Fairy tail fans ) if people do not agree with what he does.

I mean, I know that liking a character doesn't mean you're going to agree with what they do, but there's more chances you agree with them if you like them.

Google Rance.

My thoughts on Subaru, Do I think he's well written, as a dumbass who doesn't know what he's doing and obsessed with a girl. He's written intentionally that way so no complaints. Do I like him? No. Do I think he's a great character? Too soon to judge

Just like I said, as long as you don't pull off some ''he's dumb/stupid so he's written like shit'', I won't have any problem, really.

I like him for me not liking him. I know that's weird, but eh.

As for the great character thing, too soon to judge, I guess. You will have time to judge, I'm pretty sure this will get the season 2 with all the popularity and the super important stuff ( that is only relevant in two or three arcs ) that got skipped.

Jul 17, 2016 5:57 PM

#495

Offline

Jul 2016

31

Kaetokiha said:

Idiotproofninja said:

Do you take horrible deals that don't guarantee anything without first exploring other options? If the other options are worse then by all means take the deal. Subaru is a feet fool.

Yeah exploring other options. Let us see...

"i'm here on this world that i know very little of, but i know some people who are going to get slaughtered and i want to help them.

I can go around killing myself and make bets on a casino or i can talk to the most powerful people i got acquainted with and ask them for help."

Which plan sounds more stupid to you?

Notice he only talked with Anastasia by chance, he didn't went after her. He went after Priscilla because he had some time with her already and Crusch was helping him so they were his best bets.

I would gamble a lot of money and hire the merc army. Whose leader by the way is self professed as being pretty greedy

Jul 17, 2016 5:57 PM

#496

KaeUBW

Offline

May 2012

741

Idiotproofninja said:

Kaetokiha said:

Gambling...yeah what smart choice. He would make a bet 3 times and lose. Then he would die make the first bet and win, but who can guarantee he would win the second bet? Everything changes depending on his actions. He would have to kill himself countless of times to try something like that and i doubt anyone would want to keep commenting suicide that much.

Then what? Hire some thugs to fight those cultists. Those guys killed even Rem so it's obvious he needs better help than some thugs laying around.

I find this idea so stupid. The irony is you calling him a fool while having this foolish idea.

Come up with another way to raise huge amount of money in hours with time travel then. Gambling is a good choice. All he needs is to watch the clock and bet at the right time. The Last girl said her army was a merc army. That means they might save Emilia if the price is right.

Those girls are rich, why do you think they would want his money? Also how much money do you think he could gain in a short time? We never saw any casino on that world and it might not even exist.

Also your logic is flawed...you called him a fool for going around asking the girls to help him, but we only know that Anastasi has an army because he talked to her in the first palace.

So if he was trying to search for a casino to make bets from the beginning like you said he would never had talked to her and would never know she has an army.

So with this we got back at hiring thugs...which is foolish.

I despise woke people.

Jul 17, 2016 5:58 PM

#497

Iron_Maw

Offline

Mar 2010

2841

Connections said:

Yes... and then, he blows up at Anastasia for what purpose? If he already put aside his pride and his sole purpose was towards the villagers and Emilia. Anastasia gave him help, he should be thanking her not yelling at her

Because any goddamn normal person wouldn't like being made a fool out of for others amusement? He hated doing that with Priscilia why the hell would he like it now? Even my 13 year old niece was watching this very episode understood this.

Connections said:

Ok, we aren't saying he isn't trying. We are saying he isn't being smart about it. It might be his personality. It might be how he reacts to certain situations. But for the past 3 pages on this discussion thread, it seems like Subaru is the only character everyone is arguing over. There are people who say that the author intended for Subaru to be hated these past few episodes. We aren't saying that he can personally do better. We are saying his personality/ability to reason absolutely sucks.

And what I'm saying you're opinion doesn't matter. Suabru doing what he's doing right now because he doesn't have the conditions, state of mind or options to do better. So you're just whining that he isn't suddenly succeeding in everything just because. Sorry but failure is part of life and not verything will always go your way.

Jul 17, 2016 5:59 PM

#498