What is the worth of Spice & Wolf?
| Spice & Wolf is now up for vote. Decide if it will win a business gamble and buy its way to Enlightenment or if it will be torn apart by giant wolves in the Relations. RULES: 1. You can only vote for a title if you've finished watching/reading it. You must’ve read or watched at least 60% of the published content for unfinished titles. There might be exceptions for very long finished titles – they are decided on a case by case basis, but usually amount to more than half of the published content. 2. Write your vote at the very top of your comment. 3. Below your vote, give a substantial explanation to back it up. It doesn't have to be lengthy; it just needs to cover the points you want to make. 4. If you have only read/watched the adaption/source material of the respective nominee, please state so in your post. 5. It will take a minimum of 5 votes for either Enlightenment or Relations to make it into any of the lists as an anime (3 votes for manga). If it fails to reach that, it will be deemed Invalid. 6. The votes for Enlightenment will have to outnumber the votes for Unremarkable and Relations for it to be included in our list; the same goes for Relations. If it fails to reach that, it will be deemed Unremarkable. 7. Behave yourself. We accept discussions and debate, not flaming and incoherent fanboy/fangirl behavior. 8. The fate of the poll will lie in the hands of the officers if it turns out that there are more first time voters than regulars or the series cannot be gauged by both voting and discussions. This polling process will last 14 days. BEGIN!!!!!!!! |
Ducat_RevelFeb 16, 2014 5:41 PM
| Option 1 First of all, this opening is my favorite opening of all time. That shouldn't really be a factor for S&W's defense but I just wanted to bring that up. Okay, this is Sekai no Monshou with basic economics and business tactics. That means it runs on character dynamics. Its core strength lies in the interplay between Holo's fiery personality and Lawrence's strategies and reserved nature. Everything else is secondary. And I'll tell you, there is enough depth in their relationship to trump most other shows in the list. Lawrence scrambles to make a living while slowly accepting the goddess next to him while Holo carries the burden of returning to her roots which comes into conflict when her affection for Lawrence grows. What's more is that Lawrence cannot fully come to terms with either the larger-than-life existence of Holo nor his budding fondness and this hurts Holo, yet not enough to leave him. The flow of their relationship feels organic and natural even when it hits choppy waters and gives it the edge it needs. The dynamics feel authentic enough to immerse the watchers while the romance and difficulties are powerful enough to stir change in the characters. Now, the other aspects. The plot is told in arcs and they're all pretty straight forward. Like I've said before in other polls, I'm okay with this move as long as the characterization is strong enough, which it was. It knows how to give way to the real meat of the anime. There's also the economic side of the anime which I can't really talk about intelligently. All I can say is that I was never sleepy when it was brought up. A subjective experience, I know, but it was still supported by strong character interactions, which should at least make it bearable for those who don't give a damn about that dimension of the show. There's also some suspense thrown in the show, which makes it a lot more climactic by the end. Ultimately, this show works. It might not be to everyone's liking, but what show is? Now if we could only erase season 2's existence and make season 3. |
| Option 1 I mostly share Ducat's feelings for this show and believe it really is remarkable. S&W's story arcs aren't very strong or particularly deep, but serve their purpose of testing Lawrence and Holo's relationship and strengthening it as they overcome these obstacles. The interactions between the two are amusing, fresh, entertaining and never feel forced and the development of their relationship is natural and never contrived. Economics might be off-putting for some, and sometimes it DOES feel like random exposition, but one has to remember anime is mostly targeted at a young and often casual audience, and at the end of the day, S&W's economics are more interesting than much of the dialogue you normally experience in anime. S&W takes its time to develop the medieval setting in all its oddities and particularities: myths, popular traditions and festivals are shown and explained during times of peace and sometimes intertwined with the story. From what I've read around, they went as far as tweaking the language and dialogue to match the medieval setting, and used custom-made instruments for the OST so they would sound like medieval instruments. This little series is a singular experience and has been put toghether with a lot of care. Although the second season didn't manage to capture most of what made it good, the first season still works as a standalone and therefore shouldn't be removed from the list. |
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| Option 1- Enlightenment "Its core strength lies in the interplay between Holo's fiery personality and Lawrence's strategies and reserved nature. Everything else is secondary. And I'll tell you, there is enough depth in their relationship to trump most other shows in the list." -My thoughts exactly. The witty back and forth of their relationship makes this show so engaging and enjoyable. I was interested in seeing the two go at it from the start and watching them learn about and trust one another had me fully invested invested by the end. As Valkyrion pointed out, their relationship feels real. Heck, when I see my brother and girlfriend together I'm reminded a little bit of these two. The economic aspect of this show was a bit over my head at parts but I was always interested in it. I was interested enough to go back if I didn't initially grasp it and I appreciated learning a thing or two. I liked how the barter system was implemented as it helped with the world building and immersion. Speaking of immersion, the soundtrack was quite fitting and pleasant to listen to. It gives off a folky, festival-like vibe that was appropriate and entertaining. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWWETTms5kg&list=PL97AB2E4164073FDA The positives shined so brightly that they overshadowed any weaknesses to the point that they were insignificant. This show is really a memorable and an entertaining little experience that I believe most anyone can appreciate and enjoy. (Also, I like Season 2 just as much as the first one.) |
| Option 2 Its an okay and fairly entertaining series, given the right mood, but enlightening it is not. Its whole story is mainly apples and talk about girl's tail, and occasional economics. It really doesn't present anything more than that, no deeper meaning, no real overarching plot, no cultural significance, hell! even the relationship barely progresses. Its simply there to lay back and soak in, nothing more, nothing less. |
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| Option 2 inb4, I second his opinion as much as it illustrates economics it only shown the basic trading system in medieval times where the value of non-consumptive goods (whether its currency, armor, microprocessor or clothing) depreciates unexpectedly that you have to use public relations, propaganda or even some underhanded trickery to sell it fair or overpriced, although its history some of it still works today. There might be times that they have struggled since Lawrence even being decisive can still be deceived by false opportunity but most of the time they get away with it because of Holo being a wise bitch female canine having the anchor lifted before the tides came. Another part is about their interaction being an exchange of tease and teachings from one another even being enjoyable it's just that (I'm a Sage lol, woof-woof).The only in depth they really have is when they were in a life and death situations and encountering what they fear the most but after those developments the relationship they had still remains somehow platonic, wish there will be S3 to have it resolved. |
"Deep." |
| Option 1 This is a show whose heart and soul centers around character interaction. The actual plot is a simple and straightforward one, and the same go to all it's story arcs, not possessing that much in terms of depth, or complexity or even all that many twists. Now, this is far from a problem, as the actual story of Spice & Wolf is very well directed, paced and well written that it doesn't matter much in the end, it's still good. The economics part of the show can be overwhelming to some, specially those who have lower attention spans or just don't get this sort of thing, but it never becomes to complex to the point of melting your brain cells, and...well, it never felt boring to me, even if I did not understand it all, it still felt interesting Another thing that is worth mentioning, is how alive the world of Spice & Wolf feels, it may not like it because of the simple, almost slice of life approach the show takes, but the world is blooming with detail, we learn about the culture and religious beliefs, we see many festivals and and to a certain extent, the influence the economy has on the lives of the people. The soundtrack is also worth mentioning, being very memorable due to how unique it is in the end. It feels like something that would be played by a bard in a medieval tavern, which perfectly matches the tone and world of Spice & Wolf. The animation is also another thing that is good, with a art style that while clearly animesque, is realistic enough to allow for the immersion the show gives to continue to flow. But why am I giving so much thought into all of that? What makes Spice & Wolf great is it's two main characters and the interactions they have with one another. They have what is pretty much the greatest chemistry I've seen in any anime duo, their personalities are unique, extremely well developed and contrast well with one another, the writing of the show, as mentioned before, is excellent, and the two character's voice acting is great, which further improves the greatness. Doesn't matter if they are having a calm chat about some seemingly useless subject, throwing sarcasm and witty remarks at one another, having a heated argument with one another, or comforting each other in a more emotional scene, the relationship betwen Holo and Lawrance feels real, more than the vast majority of relationships I've seen in anime, and in many novels and movies to for that matter. In the end, I consider Spice & Wolf a very well crafted show (get it? Because Lawrance Craft, oh Matt, u a genius), that while only good or pretty good in most of it's aspects, has such a phenomenal main duo, that it deserves to stay on the enlightening position. |
| Option 2 You know, I don't really care if it ends up enlightening or not, but I agree that this anime lacks one crucial thing: a purpose. I mean, sure it is in some ways quite competent, but how far can some dialogues take an anime and is it even among the best dialogue based anime? I would say probably not. We can also consider that this show is incomplete, probably forever and it only scratches some ideas about its own mythology (which more seems to exist for the sake of being a convenient trump card). Overall, I think an enlightening anime need not be perfect, but it does need to showcase some greater ideal than the others. Hipster baiting with being "well-written" or something along those lines is just an extra, but generally I think not valuable enough to make a story self-justifiable in itself. I do give it some points for setting and a choice of subject matter, but not really that much in terms of values (thematic content, philosophy, educational aspects, atmosphere). That wouldn't necessarily matter if this was a show heavy on plot, action or fap-material, but it is really none of those things so I'm sort of left feeling I need something more. |
| Option 1 Spice and Wolf was, to me, not only very pleasant but very beautiful as well. I felt Holo was a really fun and interesting character that may have been otaku bait in some ways, but in others was very intriguing. I am normally quite bored by overly slice of life series, but perhaps the clever mix of fantasy into Spice and Wold was what kept me interested along with the really great character interaction. Their romance was subtle, but I felt much more believable than many straight-up romance anime. I felt Lawrence was an interesting male lead not only in his own right in terms of development but also because he was not some young kid with a magical girlfriend like so many anime of this type. His profile says 25 though I always pegged him as older, both due to his personality and appearance. The visuals were absolutely gorgeous and really added to the atmosphere of the show. All in all I felt Spice and Wolf was a very pleasant watch and a very beautiful experience. |
| Option 2 It was average. The anime talked about the economy in medieval times, trading and other sorts of merchandising which was interesting but tends to get dull after a while. I think they could have done a better job at the character progression between the two main characters, it didn't feel like their relationship was going anywhere. I'm not entirely sure what they were trying to accomplish in Spice & Wolf. Not my cup of tea, I guess. Edit: Adding to this, I enjoyed the sequel more than the first. I don't care if it gets enlightening or not. |
makkusu29Feb 6, 2014 1:28 AM
Current AMV Project: Started The Layout For Cowboy Bebop. |
| Option 1 Since most things have already been said i just add my 5 cents On the first look it may not seem much but S&W actually has a nice fantasy setting that does quite well without much action. It has a slow pace but i would say that is a part of its charm. The characters are loveable and well constructed with there relationship to each other that is quite unique compared with other romance animes. It really awakens a longing towards that strange and mysterious world. The trading that gets more attention in the progress of the anime is not dry and boring but in fact rather interesting. I really enjoyed the whole anime and while it may not be blessed with an actual ending i think it should be on the enlightment list for it's atmosphere and the beautiful relationship of the two MCs. |
"Es irrt der Mensch, solang er strebt." - Faust I, Vers 317 |
| Option Two- Unremarkable Spice and Wolf is a lovely series. But unfortunately, being just pleasant is not enough for me to consider something 'enlightening.' I wouldn't protest if it were to end up on the list, and I definitely understand why several people consider it worthy of being there. But to me, it just doesn't quite stick out enough as something truly remarkable. |
| 2 - Unremarkable I find it surprising how some can agree on the majority of the show being mediocre yet still consider it enlightening. Personally I don't see how one good couple would carry a show to enlightening status; and by such criteria there should be a lot of other candidates for the list which I can't say I agree with. Perhaps some see more to it, but I don't think it trumps other shows featuring 'interesting interactions/relationships', most of which I wouldn't consider enlightening either. That aside, I also can't be as forgiving on what has been said on the 'economics' aspect of the show, which not only served no purpose but was terribly executed. This is partially based on my very limited understanding of medieval economics though, but even that considering it's just plain bad. It was overly simplified; traders are apparently running around buying whatever they feel like with their guild placing blind trust in their ability for returning a profit. But the simplification I can understand, in Japan they would probably know next to nothing about medieval Europe (even I didn't learn that much about it) and I sure as hell wouldn't understand the complexity of medieval economics either; but this show really didn't surpass the level of the 2 years of economy I had in middle school. But that could have been forgiven if the series didn't boast its 'superb understanding' of economics and made it a major part of the plot. It's dull, pretentious and wholly uninteresting. This super intelligent ancient goddess and cunningly clever trades person really didn't seem all that awesome or praiseworthy. And these not-so-awesome characters' interactions were good, but that's really where it ends for me. They weren't remarkable characters on their own and the 'level' at which they interacted isn't exclusive to S&W. There are other shows, probably plenty, which display similar interactions, some of which have other qualities going for them besides that. I think Spice and Wolf really needs to have something else going for it as well for it to come even close to enlightening, as one good relationship simply doesn't cut it. Because aside from this, there really isn't much else to mention about the show. Art and animation is decent. The setting is pretty bland. The music is good though not excellent. The plot is pretty useless, as it mostly consists of 'I'm going to buy something!'; 'I've bought something, let's fight over it!'; 'Let's go somewhere else to sell it!'. And occasionally there's this background story where dramatic music plays; charming but not overwhelmingly convincing. That remark about fighting reminds me of a conversation I had with my mother about commercials. Apparently it's perceived as normal that relationships consist of constant bickering, fighting and heated arguments; often easily made all fine and dandy by a joke, a gift or a kiss. This display of relationships -- my mom and I agreed -- is pretty disconcerting; I find it hard to swallow that healthy and loving relationships should ever consist more of fighting and argument than just regular conversation and understanding. In this regard I found Holo's and Lawrence's relationship not even all that... 'romantic', by lack of a better word. The dialogue didn't do much more than discuss, argue and explain, leaving out a lot of potential for character depth and development. And that's all my mind managed to spew forth. EDIT: Removed random capitalisation of 'medieval'; what am I, German? |
LazhwardFeb 12, 2014 7:31 AM
| "The view from the bottom of a well may not be much, but you can see the sky and the stars really well. My world is small, but since I'm looking up at space night after night, you could say I'm a frog on a universal scale. When you gaze up at space all alone like that, the back of your mind goes quiet, and you feel as though you've gained an extraordinary amount of wisdom." |
| Option 1 Spice and Wolf, or as I'd like to call it, "that one series that seriously needs season 3". Yes, I know there's also Baka To Test and FullMetal Panic, but those aren't enlightening, unfortunately. Mercifully however, the first season has a solid enough ending to be able to stand on its own. The animation is top notch, which is to be expected from Brains Base and the soundtrack is definitely fitting the feel of the show. The story mainly revolves around medieval economics, but the storytelling never feels like its forcing you to learn about the topic against your will. In other words, it makes it easy and straightforward to understand. The best part of the show, however, is the chemistry between Lawrence and Holo. Especially Holo is a very well-written and love-able character, but Lawrence avoids the many cliches that plague so many male love interests by actually having a charming and mature (even being somewhat witty) personality. This series is hugely underrated and is most certainly unique, so my vote goes to it being Enlightening. |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
sushiisawesome said: Option 1 Spice and Wolf, or as I'd like to call it, "that one series that seriously needs season 3". But Sushi, Maoyuu Maou Yuusha was season 3. |
Nagisa33 said: sushiisawesome said: Option 1 Spice and Wolf, or as I'd like to call it, "that one series that seriously needs season 3". But Sushi, Maoyuu Maou Yuusha was season 3. What is that? The rumoured LN originating from 2ch that was supposed to get adapted into a 1-cour anime that would be doomed to fail? It's actually fortunate it was never made. Although I did like the leaked song that was supposed to be its ED. |
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| Option 1 A very enjoyable and very unique Anime. It moved something inside of me...not many animes can do that. Can only sign this quote: "that one series that seriously needs season 3" |
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EmileNoir said: Option 1 A very enjoyable and very unique Anime. It moved something inside of me...not many animes can do that. Can only sign this quote: "that one series that seriously needs season 3" Moved something inside you huh, I think I see what you're getting at. http://i-a.nattoli.net/thumbnails/preview/790/1/nattoli.net_photo_standard_magazines_dengeki_gs_festival_spice_and_wolf_poster_790_nat_preview-e4981bd2.jpg But does that really make it enlightening? Perhaps you should be more clear. |
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| With 7 votes for Enlightenment and 5 votes for Unremarkable, I draw this poll to a close. Thank you all for voting. Note: I did not count the votes of Rarity and EmileNoir. |
| Ach, a bit too late then. Oh well, I'm nearly finished with the series and I can say that I'm glad it's going to stay. |
| Damn, was too tired yesterday to vote. I basically came home, ate something and fell into my bed :( But it's still enlightening so all is well :) |
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