| The ending doesn't make any sense to me... So to get him back into the time line Kurisu goes back to convince young Okabe to go and "kidnap" Mayuri, but didn't he already do that; it's why she's there in the first place right? He already kidnap her in the first time line, so Kurisu shouldn't even be there otherwise this wouldn't even be a memory in the first place. Shouldn't the strong memory have been Kurisu admitting her feelings, or something about his friends and the lab? |
| This is my theory. I think that S;G is like a multiverse where all the world lines exist at the same time, except the beta ones that branched off due to specific events (d-mails). In all of the other world lines, a younger Kurisu told Okabe about Houin Kyouma when they were at the train stop, so since Okabe was originally from another world line (call it anime beginning world line), he begins disappearing since there hasn't been anything impactful that happened to him in this Steins gate World line. So Okabe disappears causing Kurisu to make a time machine in the future to return her to 2005 where she takes his first kiss, which made it very memorable. The kiss being the impactful event seems to hold true since that is the first thing Okabe mentions after he returns. The kiss resulted in stemming off into a second Steins gate world line, since the original one is where Okabe disappears. In this new world line, no time machine will be built since Okabe will not disappear. Too bad the movie did not show what happened to Suzuha when they traveled back to the future. Would have been helpful if they did show Suzuha disappearing into thin air again, which I will presume did happen. How Okabe managed to return: With Okabe in the R world line gaining the memories of the Okabe from the newly stemmed off second Steins Gate World line (using his Reading Steiner) that Kurisu created by kissing him in 2005, he remembers the memorable first kiss and manages to return to this second SG world line. This also seems very likely because before this new world line was created, Okabe does not seem to recall having his first kiss with Kurisu. It was only stated in the series that he had had his first kiss already, but if it was with Kurisu he would've mentioned it. I think this connects pretty well with the original anime. Starts off in anime beginning world line with the metal upa and kurisu dying, bunch of dmails forward and back. Okabe returns to anime beginning world line. Fails first try (branches to another world line) and returns to the future. In that world line his future self sent him a video and he returns to branching point. By taking the metal upa and saving Kurisu he jumps to the SG world line where he disappears to R inbetween world line in a year because this SG world line has the same past as in the anime beginning world line (where young Kurisu talks to him). Kurisu makes time machine, travels back and kisses Okabe which created a new SG2 world line. Okabe gains memory of SG2 Okabe and pinpoints this new world line since he had a very different impactful event. Travels from R World Line to SG2 world line, and remains there forever, hopefully. Well that's my take on the events of the series. Although this theory has some flaws, I found it much more plausible than the single world theory that i was thinking about beforehand. |
ninja88880Dec 15, 2013 12:49 AM
| Well, your question isn't exactly the clearest possible, but I try to answer. (According to my understanding.) Kurisu went back in time to plant a powerful memory from Steins;Gate world line, to Okabe. This memory is the story of Hououin Kyouma. Now, you would wonder where Okabe came up with the idea of Hououin Kyouma in time travelling Kurisu's world line. At first I thought it creates a grandfather paradox, but it actually might not be. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox Okabe probably originally simply came up with the idea of Hououin Kyouma on his own. However, the sad story that fits the way Okabe thinks (He was the one who came up with it in the original world line anyways) gives Okabe the needed kick to cool down his reading steiner, and return to Steins;Gate world line. + There was the kiss as an extra boost hehe Here comes the only flaw I had with this movie. It doesn't explain everything clearly. What I said is most likely how it went, but maybe due to the limited length animation studio was given, they didn't have time to explain everything maybe as clear as I'd wanted. |
cupcDec 15, 2013 1:22 AM
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| Hm, but if it was only in the single Steins;Gate world line, then with Kurisu changing the past, to alter the events of 2011, it will lead to Kurisu not making a time machine in the first place to travel back in time, which is a grandfather paradox. |
| Basically the movie was trying to confuse the audience with theories and stuffs which the anime was trying so hard to explain, it makes less sense than the anime. Like, the reason for what Okabe had been through, was the time machine which he first invented. And by inventing the first time machine that Okabe was able to move to the steins;gate world line. And the movie tried to convince us that it was Kirusu who made the first time machine, with negates the whole story-wise. _ If Okabe didn't make the first time machine, then there would be no loop and no steins;gate world line in the first place. _ By building the first time machine, Kurisu was able to save Okabe. But I don't see the connection here in a world when both of them can build the first time machine. Unless her invention was based on what has been discovered by Okabe and SERN. So, it feels like the circle of question with no true answer: which is existed first? Egg or chicken? Aside from poor explanation and confusion, the movie was quite touching to watch. It has some teary moments and heavily focuses on drama than the anime. |
Takana_no_HanaDec 15, 2013 10:19 AM
| I think you got it pretty much right. ^ I was, for a while wondering how did Kurisu get in to the R world line. It was probably just Okabe, who was getting visible to Kurisu's Steins;Gate world line, however. (As Kurisu said: "I didn't come to you. You're trying to come back") Then Okabe gets up, and seems full of energy, probably meaning that his mind got back in "order" again, heh. And all the people came visible, bringing Okabe back. And what I mean by getting visible, the reverse effect of how he earlier in the movie disappeared at times due to him getting those visions from the overloaded reading steiner. (His consciousness was many different world lines, so his consciousness started to crumble and he started to move to the R world line so that Steins;Gate world line could be in balance.) Only thing mystery to me now, is the video he received to his phone. (In the very end) How did he receive that? Or was it just Okabe's consciousness getting in order again, and the video was a metaphor of a sort? Anyways, this movie took some serious pondering to be understood well, for me at least. Unlike the series. Yesterday, I was a bit unsure whether I should give this 8 or 9, but now that all pieces came together for me (Pretty much, at least) I know I can give this 9 and be happy. |
cupcDec 15, 2013 1:30 PM
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Yowamushi said: To me it seems like Kurisu went to the R-world line where she found Okabe and convinced him to come back to the steins;gate world line, but i really don't understand how she did that...but if she didn't go to the R-world line how did those people start showing up? No, it's the opposite. Thanks to Makise, Okabe remembered his first kiss and his existence in the main S;G worldline and so he came back. Yowamushi said: Fenaralan said: Well yeah, they both went back to the S;G world line from the R-world line. I know that Okabe was already there but how did Kurisu get there?I think that Okabe was coming back to S;G worldline that's why he see Kurisu and then the other people start showing up. It's not that Makise is really in R-world line, it's Okabe that remembers her, that makes her look like an apparition. But in reality he's just coming back to S;G worldline. |
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| Okabe couldn't stay in Steins;Gate due to there being no consistency to his memory and events, thus his existence could not sustain in Steins;Gate. Makise Kurisu, with the time machine, went back and took his first kiss, something that will be deeply ingrain into his hippocampus, as well as stating her role as his observer all along. Thus creating a consistency for Okabe and Steins;Gate to co-exist. "Return me my first kiss" - Okabe Here's the consistency... Okabe stated back in the TV series, that Kurisu didn't take his first kiss, and his first kiss wasn't particularly romantic. I always thought the "forced kiss" on Moeka was his first... It turn out that his first kiss was took by his "observer" Makise Kurisu all along, creating the consistency that he needed to remain in Steins;Gate It's very wonderfully written. Hope that helps. |
AirStylesDec 17, 2013 9:59 PM
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WatashiWaZero said: After reading all these replies, I`m still a bit lost. From what I understand is that the SG world line is actually NOT the original line, but simply one where Kurisu and Mayushi doesn`t die. Kurisu travels back to 2005 of the SG world line to the time where they`ve met before (I assume that this was mentioned somewhere in the anime... can`t remember). When she is in the past, we (the audience) see her as her current self, while in reality, she is actually in her younger form (otherwise, I can`t explain to myself the train stop scene)??? Instead of letting the events go on as it did in the past, she simply changes it by kissing him, therefore making it memorable enough for him to stay locked in the SG world line. Hopefully this is correct, if anyone could confirm it??? Errr... Yes, and no. D-mail = Alter world line. (Crazy dangerous) Time leap = stay within the same world line and nothing can be change. (Loop without change) Time machine = within the exact same world line, but things can be change. (safe for the user, but can be very influential to the same world line) Think of it this way! There are 3 characters. 13 years old Okabe of Steins;Gate *I'll refer to him as boy-Okarin 18 years old Kurisu of Steins;Gate *I'll refer to her as Kurisu 18 years old Okabe of original world line. * I'll refer to him as O-Okarin O-Okarin suffer from the lack of consistency, thus poof and gone, as his memory and existence makes no sense to the physics of the world. Kurisu, wanting O-Okarin back, so she travel back to 2005. However, even with the power of time machine, there are certain law that she can't break. She wanders around wondering how to save O-Okarin, and she accidentally met boy-Okarin. Their meeting is one that would not have made sense, as Kurisu is not suppose to exist. Thus the world fix itself by "adjusting itslef" into a world line where girl Kurisu can meet boy-Okarin. girl-kurisu, with Kurisu's knowledge and memory(she is Kurisu to begin with), created Kyouma, as well as sharing a kiss with him. Giving boy-Okarin a strong memory. O-Okarin, stuck in R-world line meet Kurisu, and Kurisu stated that she's his observer. O-Okarin, having reading steiner, retain the memory of boy-Okarin. (consistency obtain) "Give me back my first kiss" Basically, O-Okarin, having been through crazy amount time travel, have received far too much memory for his existence to be accepted in Steins;Gate, as his existence is not one that would've been consistent with boy-Okari. Thus rejected. Kurisu alter boy-Okarin's memory, to provide O-Okarin the consistency to stay in Steins;Gate. |
AirStylesDec 17, 2013 11:18 PM
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| It is a time machine after all. Not a time leap machine, so yes, the past can be change. Though she have to obey the rule of "Changing the present without changing the past". That mean, she cannot make big changes, instead, she need to alter things a little bit and let butterfly effect take it's course. * *This is the hard bit, as we saw what happen if she made the slightest of error, such as boy-Okarin end up dead. Not to mention if she alter it differently, she herself may not be able to return to Steins;Gate. She could always repeat? No. If she keep repeating and failing, she might get overload with memories/de javu and not be able to stay in Steins;Gate herself. (Like O-Okarin) Kinda like how Okabe saved her without changing what happened in the past, saving her from her father, while didn't change his past-self's perception. |
AirStylesDec 18, 2013 1:52 AM
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WatashiWaZero said: Well, with your explanation of how everything takes place in one world line (in this case, the SG line) and that reality made it so their meeting is true, then wouldn`t it incur a massive plot hole in the story? Seeing as how Kurisu can`t be in two places at once. Oh whales, good movie regardless. Errr... no. The story of steins;gate is about numerous world line, with memories obtained from each world line show up as some sort of De Javu. Kurisu shouldn't be back there, that is true, but it occur in the world line where Kurisu is actually there, they merely obtained the memories of those who're in that specific world line. In world A, x meet y. In world B, x never met y. Reading steiner(memories of other world) are like De Javu where x from world A see things that x in world B saw. Kurisu went back in time to change things, which make slight changes the the world line. Now, think back to episode... I think 15, where Suzuha explain that world line are like ropes, made up of thousands of threads, but in the end, they all reach the same destination/conclusion. By triggering changes to world line B, world line B, who is made out of 1000 different threads. Lets say, Kurisu went to world line B-569, because she met kid-Okarin, the world line B adjust itself and change to world line B-006. Same world line, same destination, small differences, but end up the same. By triggering world line B-006, Okabe is able to obtain the memory of World line B-006, thus create a consistency. make sense? |
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| The ending is really simple if you remember episode 22 in the anime (the greatest episode of all time). Kurisu says right after their first kiss that "first kisses" are stored in the hippocampus as a strong memory. In the movie, Suzuha says that Kurisu needs to create a strong memory to anchor Okabe to the timeline, and she achieves this by not changing the past completely (her younger self is the one who originally convinced him to take Mayuri hostage probably). Kissing teenage Okabe made that his first kiss and it was ultimately the strong memory that kept him in the Steins Gate timeline. Remember, in episode 22, kissing Kurisu was not Okabe's first kiss, so that created an opening in the past to steal it from him, ie. his last words in the movie. I rewatched the whole series to start the movie and that's how I see it with my fresh knowledge. |
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Reverb_Shock said: The ending is really simple if you remember episode 22 in the anime (the greatest episode of all time). Kurisu says right after their first kiss that "first kisses" are stored in the hippocampus as a strong memory. In the movie, Suzuha says that Kurisu needs to create a strong memory to anchor Okabe to the timeline, and she achieves this by not changing the past completely (her younger self is the one who originally convinced him to take Mayuri hostage probably). Kissing teenage Okabe made that his first kiss and it was ultimately the strong memory that kept him in the Steins Gate timeline. Remember, in episode 22, kissing Kurisu was not Okabe's first kiss, so that created an opening in the past to steal it from him, ie. his last words in the movie. I rewatched the whole series to start the movie and that's how I see it with my fresh knowledge. Yes that's exactly how I perceived it! I thought I understood it completely until I came on here and started to feel like Mayuri (Tuturuu! :3) with people trying to explain it with Beta and Zeta worlds and complex timey wimey stuffs :P Edit: Why people saying there was a young and old Kurisu? :S I thought it's the same Kirusu but from the future who took Okabe's first kiss in the station wasn't it...? Or was young Kirusu told by old Kirusu to say all that. That seems unlikely since why would she believe all that when she was young? O.o |
ittou_shuraJan 3, 2014 5:15 AM
| It's great that everyone is very good at explaining things...! |
WE SHOULD ALL GET ALONG~! >:3 |
| After reading all of these comments, I personally believe that Airstyles has the most solid explanation. It answered all my questions about the young Kurisu popping up spontaneously at the train station and the R-line and how Okabe disappeared and was able to come back. So I appreciate all the effort and thanks for answering my questions. The only beef I have is about the time leap explanation.. AirStyles said: D-mail = Alter world line. (Crazy dangerous) Time leap = stay within the same world line and nothing can be change. (Loop without change) Time machine = within the exact same world line, but things can be change. (safe for the user, but can be very influential to the same world line) You stay within the same world line but you can also make changes. The only difference between leaping and the machine is you go back in time mentally, not physically. No risks of encountering your past self because you are the past self. It's literally the exact same thing as restarting from a save point in a VN. So once your mind goes back the instant you do something different you end up in a different world line. |
ihusmal1234Jan 7, 2014 9:20 PM
Takana_no_Hana said: Basically the movie was trying to confuse the audience with theories and stuffs which the anime was trying so hard to explain, it makes less sense than the anime. Like, the reason for what Okabe had been through, was the time machine which he first invented. And by inventing the first time machine that Okabe was able to move to the steins;gate world line. And the movie tried to convince us that it was Kirusu who made the first time machine, with negates the whole story-wise. _ If Okabe didn't make the first time machine, then there would be no loop and no steins;gate world line in the first place. _ By building the first time machine, Kurisu was able to save Okabe. But I don't see the connection here in a world when both of them can build the first time machine. Unless her invention was based on what has been discovered by Okabe and SERN. So, it feels like the circle of question with no true answer: which is existed first? Egg or chicken? Aside from poor explanation and confusion, the movie was quite touching to watch. It has some teary moments and heavily focuses on drama than the anime. It wasn't wrong of them saying that she made the time machine, you were not paying attention, in this world, the steins;gate, time travel wasn't suppose to exist, but because of okabe disappearing, the future of that world changed because she wanted to bring him back, thus Kirusu created the time machine |
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ninja88880 said: This is my theory. I think that S;G is like a multiverse where all the world lines exist at the same time, except the beta ones that branched off due to specific events (d-mails). In all of the other world lines, a younger Kurisu told Okabe about Houin Kyouma when they were at the train stop, so since Okabe was originally from another world line (call it anime beginning world line), he begins disappearing since there hasn't been anything impactful that happened to him in this Steins gate World line. So Okabe disappears causing Kurisu to make a time machine in the future to return her to 2005 where she takes his first kiss, which made it very memorable. The kiss being the impactful event seems to hold true since that is the first thing Okabe mentions after he returns. The kiss resulted in stemming off into a second Steins gate world line, since the original one is where Okabe disappears. In this new world line, no time machine will be built since Okabe will not disappear. Too bad the movie did not show what happened to Suzuha when they traveled back to the future. Would have been helpful if they did show Suzuha disappearing into thin air again, which I will presume did happen. How Okabe managed to return: With Okabe in the R world line gaining the memories of the Okabe from the newly stemmed off second Steins Gate World line (using his Reading Steiner) that Kurisu created by kissing him in 2005, he remembers the memorable first kiss and manages to return to this second SG world line. This also seems very likely because before this new world line was created, Okabe does not seem to recall having his first kiss with Kurisu. It was only stated in the series that he had had his first kiss already, but if it was with Kurisu he would've mentioned it. I think this connects pretty well with the original anime. Starts off in anime beginning world line with the metal upa and kurisu dying, bunch of dmails forward and back. Okabe returns to anime beginning world line. Fails first try (branches to another world line) and returns to the future. In that world line his future self sent him a video and he returns to branching point. By taking the metal upa and saving Kurisu he jumps to the SG world line where he disappears to R inbetween world line in a year because this SG world line has the same past as in the anime beginning world line (where young Kurisu talks to him). Kurisu makes time machine, travels back and kisses Okabe which created a new SG2 world line. Okabe gains memory of SG2 Okabe and pinpoints this new world line since he had a very different impactful event. Travels from R World Line to SG2 world line, and remains there forever, hopefully. Well that's my take on the events of the series. Although this theory has some flaws, I found it much more plausible than the single world theory that i was thinking about beforehand. Thanks! I was kinda confused with the ending, but this explanation answered all of my questions. You're awesome :D |
| I don't know if I should revive this topic, but here I go. I have some thoughts and opinions about certain things I didn't quite understand. 1) Let's think of Hououin Kyouma character as an object, a ball, just for explanation purposes. I'll also adress 19 y/o Kurisu as Kurisu, 13 y/o Okabe as Kid-Okarin, and 19 y/o Okabe as Okabe. Okabe has Hououin Kyouma "ball", Kurisu takes this Kyouma information (aka the "ball") and goes back to the past, then she gives this ball to Kid-Okarin which will grow up, become Okabe and give this "ball" to Kurisu which will go back in time and repeat this. So, being that said let's separate events with letters to make it easier to understand: A) Kurisu gives Hououin Kyouma knowledge to kid-Okarin B) Okabe gives Hououin Kyouma knowledge to Kurisu So, B) can never happen if A) never happened, and of course A) is dependent of B), hence A) can never happen if B) never happens. To me that seems like a loop, a paradox. Kurisu went back in time to plant information she would only possess if kid-Okarin already has it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the original S;G series Okabe says he invented Hououin Kyouma based on some TV show. A paradox I can compare this with is the movement paradox: You can only travel from A to B if you had already traveled the half of the distance between these two points, and for this being possible you need the half of the halt and etc. Or even, the Grandfather Paradox can be used to compare it. In the end, I don't know how this is possible. It's a loop. 2) Some people say that the worldline made Kurisu younger to make her existence in that time possible. I think that's a good theory based on those scenes in the train station that she "became" a girl-Kurisu. But this travel was made using a time machine so that shouldn't be the case. Suzaha came from the future using a time machine to go back to 2010 (and 2011), but the worldline didn't make her any younger or older just to make her existence there possible, heck not even when she traveled to 1975. She was still 18 y/o no matter what time she traveled. So, I'm still not sure if her looking younger for moments was really there or it was just metaphorical. Also, I was freaked out for the kiss because it's a 19 y/o woman kissing a 13 y/o boy, I mean, OkabexKurisu are a lovely couple (I love them) but come on, it's an adult kissing a teenager, that didn't seem appropriate to me jajaja. Besides, change roles, 19y/o Okabe kissing a 13y/o Kurisu... o.o Anyway, that's not really that important. Either way, the movie was hear-touching, beautiful, I loved it. I gave it a 10/10 in the heat of the moment, and I don't think it's fair to give it 9/10 now just because there are things I don't understand. I don't thing the writers made plot holes or things without sense, they just didn't have enough time to explain everything because the 90 minutes of the movie. I'm not a genius, so what I wrote my be wrong, I just wan't to understand things better =) |
marklee said: In my thoery, like suzuha explained when she and kurisu met after kurisu timeleaped, the SG world line is less stable than the others because okabe saved both kurisu and mayuri. The SG world line has another world line tangled up with it and thats the R world line. The R world line is a world line that is separated from the SG world line just for the sole purpose of keeping okabe's existence, in other words its basically a part of SG world line. The SG world lines past is where kurisu didnt go back to 2005 to tell okabe about hououin kyouma and okabe disappeared but then another branch was created(lets call it SG2 world line) and thats where kurisu decided to go back to 2005 and told okabe about kyouma and saved him and it goes on until the future okabe decides to send suzuha and a video to year 2010 to guide himself(another version) thus saving kurisu again(ep 24). And then there's the other question of how kurisu saved okabe. Okabe has an unstable memory thats why hes disappearing. The reason behind this is that he timeleaped so many times that his memories of the other world lines is all tangled up, he doesnt know anymore which memory is from which world line, resulting to him being unable to exist in any other world line aside from R world line. Until kurisu decided to help him by putting a strong memory of him and her kissing so that okabe will recognize himself that he existed on that SG world line. I dont know if this is just an explanation or a hypothesis and Its really really confusing so im not sure myself This movie is not canon and, unlike the main show, is full of plotholes, the main plothole that cause other plotholes in that there is only 1 world line active in any moment, they are not parallel worlds. When world line changes Okabe is not jumping to another wolrld, this is same world and same Okabe, world rebuilded and memories are changed, but Okabe has ability to save and rewrite his memories from old WL to new WL in that process. Yes this is nice movie to watch, but don't try to understand it's mechanic, official time travel mechanic ended on 24 episode and of course there will be S;G0. |
ninja88880 said: This is my theory. I think that S;G is like a multiverse where all the world lines exist at the same time, except the beta ones that branched off due to specific events (d-mails). In all of the other world lines, a younger Kurisu told Okabe about Houin Kyouma when they were at the train stop, so since Okabe was originally from another world line (call it anime beginning world line), he begins disappearing since there hasn't been anything impactful that happened to him in this Steins gate World line. So Okabe disappears causing Kurisu to make a time machine in the future to return her to 2005 where she takes his first kiss, which made it very memorable. The kiss being the impactful event seems to hold true since that is the first thing Okabe mentions after he returns. The kiss resulted in stemming off into a second Steins gate world line, since the original one is where Okabe disappears. In this new world line, no time machine will be built since Okabe will not disappear. Too bad the movie did not show what happened to Suzuha when they traveled back to the future. Would have been helpful if they did show Suzuha disappearing into thin air again, which I will presume did happen. How Okabe managed to return: With Okabe in the R world line gaining the memories of the Okabe from the newly stemmed off second Steins Gate World line (using his Reading Steiner) that Kurisu created by kissing him in 2005, he remembers the memorable first kiss and manages to return to this second SG world line. This also seems very likely because before this new world line was created, Okabe does not seem to recall having his first kiss with Kurisu. It was only stated in the series that he had had his first kiss already, but if it was with Kurisu he would've mentioned it. I think this connects pretty well with the original anime. Starts off in anime beginning world line with the metal upa and kurisu dying, bunch of dmails forward and back. Okabe returns to anime beginning world line. Fails first try (branches to another world line) and returns to the future. In that world line his future self sent him a video and he returns to branching point. By taking the metal upa and saving Kurisu he jumps to the SG world line where he disappears to R inbetween world line in a year because this SG world line has the same past as in the anime beginning world line (where young Kurisu talks to him). Kurisu makes time machine, travels back and kisses Okabe which created a new SG2 world line. Okabe gains memory of SG2 Okabe and pinpoints this new world line since he had a very different impactful event. Travels from R World Line to SG2 world line, and remains there forever, hopefully. Well that's my take on the events of the series. Although this theory has some flaws, I found it much more plausible than the single world theory that i was thinking about beforehand. I can buy It, making one last definitive timeline with both him and Kurisu staying in a "perfect" timeline as outsiders. |
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