What is the worth of Bakemonogatari?
It is made of excellence, and deserves to be added to our Enlightenment list.
32.0%
8
It is neither good or bad enough to be mentioned in either of our lists.
64.0%
16
Its flaws are ignored for all the hype it has, and it deserves to be added to the Relations list.
4.0%
1
25 votes
| This title was due for a poll ages ago, and here it is now! Now is your chance to praise it to the heaven of Enlightenment, or to rant it down to Relations hell. If you haven't seen the series yet, use the reviews and opinions expressed here or elsewhere to help decide whether to watch it or not, NOT to decide your vote. This poll will last for four days, so you better hurry up and drop your opinions. Anyone misbehaving will be intensely molested by Arararagi and Kanbaru. |
Ducat_RevelMar 24, 2013 6:38 PM
| It is neither good or bad enough to be mentioned in either of our lists. (your vote) Bakemonogatari is by no means a bad series, but it's not especially good either. It utilize a pretty clever style of dialogue and visuals to make it seem deeper and more intelligent than it actually is, which is praiseworthy in and of itself but objectively speaking, it's nothing special. It has some interesting characters and a interesting concept, but the focus was on the wrong things and as Amberleh says, the girl of the week theme really ruins a lot of enjoyment. I would recommend it to people who I know enjoys/tolerates a lot of fanservice and heavy dialogue but it's not for everyone. Less harem and more "exorcism" and it would be much, much better. (sorry for abusing the word "but") |
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| Option 1 'Cause Senjougahara Hitagi makes me smile in ways which should not be legal. Also, because Araragi bleeds in many different colors. It makes me happy. |
Ducat_RevelMar 20, 2013 12:01 PM
| Ducat: Araragi is the best character in the anime imo. Shinobu or Suruga = best girl. EDIT: typo |
HaakonwaleMar 20, 2013 11:20 AM
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Haakonwale said: Ducat: Araragi is the best character in the anime imo. Shinobu or Surugu = best girl. Amen to that. No one can out do Araragi in getting beat up. He's the man! |
| Its flaws are ignored for all the hype it has, and it deserves to be added to the Relations list. It is overrated typical shaft psuedo-psychology psuedo-harem talking heads and annoying camera angles bullcrud. I really don't want to see it on our Enlightenment list. There are some that I'm on the fence with, but this isn't once of them. I am also just in general against anything with an unnecessary harem being added to the list- I find psuedo-harems to be FAR worse than just regular harems. I also don't want to see SHAFT works outside of Madoka on our list, especially not their harem series. I am also okay with it just not appearing on either list. |
| Before this gets out of hand and I'll be forced to hide in a bunker, Gash, what's your vote in this poll. It doesn't count unless you comment it. |
Gash_V-D_Hetchum said: Well, the easy answer is that nothing they talk about is neither deep nor intelligent. They just talk.Give specific examples of how its not intelligent or deep instead of just saying it is, and stop blaming the fanservice, which in itself, is not like the normal kind, but is instead a beautiful one. And girl of the week, implies they only show up then and never again, wherein, the girls get more screentime and development even after their acrs, save Tsubasa, since hers is last in the series. I would just like to point out the highest review for Bake, which beautifully explains the Boku/Tsukommi relationship between Koyomi and Hitagi, which I never knew upon my first view. I don't blame fanservice. I don't know how you deduced that from my post. They each have their own arc where the focus is on their relationship and interactions with Araragi. The other characters appear again after the conclusion of the previous arc, but they rarely appear with any significance mid-arc. You are just grasping at straws, trying to find flaws in my argument. |
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| It is made of excellence, and deserves to be added to our Enlightenment list. (your vote) |
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Gash_V-D_Hetchum said: Funny how you cut out the rest of that quote. Have you learned how to argument from Drac? I said it's not for everyone. That doesn't mean that I think it's bad. Would you recommend an anime with heavy focus on fanservice to someone you know doesn't like that? No. Also, the second quote is not mine and should not be added there.>I would recommend it to people who I know enjoys/tolerates a lot of fanservice >Its a fanservice anime and if you don't like that, the series is bad And huh? They appear again without any significance.... Did you even watch the series then? Or actually remember it if so. In not grasping at straws, I want explanations. As I said in my previous post. There are mini-arcs between each arc that contains some additional character development, but they don't offer anything mid-arc. All the focus is on the new girl in the harem. If you want explanations, please say your side of the story so I know exactly what your view on the series is. |
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| Option 2 Hype? The fanservice on this series is pretty much about adolescences parody of teenagers who are curios in being a relationship, in terms of substance on how to deal with oddities and philosophies xxxHolic has a better one. |
"Deep." |
| Option 2. Its not that bad but its not good enough for enlightenment.Its just better than most of the harem thats it.Story was not that great if there was a story to begin with and about unusual interactions between characters its not like they are explaining the meaning of life or telling us anything enlightening its just random talk.People are just being main girl fanboy. |
Gash_V-D_Hetchum said: Amberleh said: I also don't want to see SHAFT works outside of Madoka on our list, especially not their harem series. Sure is biased in here. I'll add this here, since a double post is bad enough. Its strengths are ignored because of the rotten eggs in the fansbase and the hype it respectfully deserves, and it thus also deserves to be added to the Relations list. Oh so now you're saying it deserves to be added to relations? Well then you sure did change your mind fast. See that Ducat? Count Gash's vote against the series being added to enlightenment. =) |
Amberleh said: Gash_V-D_Hetchum said: Its strengths are ignored because of the rotten eggs in the fansbase and the hype it respectfully deserves, and it thus also deserves to be added to the Relations list. Oh so now you're saying it deserves to be added to relations? Well then you sure did change your mind fast. See that Ducat? Count Gash's vote against the series being added to enlightenment. =) Gotta admit, Gash, your post confuses me. I'll count it as a vote for the Relations then? @Amber, I have to know: what's your problem with Shaft (namely Shinbou)? Surely Bakemono is not that great of a show, but they still have Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei in the pocket. |
| Gotta cool down, Gash. No need to get so worked up over this. They all have their stands and already cast their stones. Their minds are made up. Plus with the way you're barking, no one is going to be convinced. Also, I got Amber's sarcasm. It was straight to the point, dry, clear, and witty. Yours was harder for me to discern though. Of course I knew you didn't mean it, but the way you said it was confusing. My reply was also a joke, but I'm pretty sure you picked up on that. |
Ducat_RevelMar 20, 2013 12:30 PM
Gash_V-D_Hetchum said: Azraniel said: Option 2 Hype? The fanservice on this series is pretty much about adolescences parody of teenagers who are curios in being a relationship, in terms of substance on how to deal with oddities and philosophies xxxHolic has a better one. X-anime is better than Y-anime. Fanservice: Can't be good, unobjective. 2_Steps_Ahead said: Option 2. Its not that bad but its not good enough for enlightenment.Its just better than most of the harem thats it.Story was not that great if there was a story to begin with and about unusual interactions between characters its not like they are explaining the meaning of life or telling us anything enlightening its just random talk.People are just being main girl fanboy. Its just better that most harems, that's is. Fuck everything good about it. Every story told, is limited by its genres, you cannot expect a supernatural,harem,comedy to have the same moral lessons as a pychological series. I'm pretty sure there are many anime on the enlightenment list without life lessons. Why are these people voting again? Then why are fans crying over it being a intelligent show in the first place just say its a harem with different style.What so good anyway?GIRL OF THE WEEK or Fanservice sequel |
Ducat_Revel said: @Amber, I have to know: what's your problem with Shaft (namely Shinbou)? Surely Bakemono is not that great of a show, but they still have Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei in the pocket. I'm sure some of their shows are fine- namely the ones that don't involve harems of any kind in any way, shape, or form. Anyway, my problem with SHAFT is... Hold on, let me find my list... 1. Almost all of their shows tag on random harem elements for no reason. 2. They really like lolicon, and I have a VERY BIG issue with this. 3. Okay, I am an animator/illustrator. I'm an artist, I get the artsy stylistic thing. I'm all about that. SHAFT, however, abuses the hell out of their 'artsy' style by using it to come up with clever ways to give you panty shots so that they look 'beautiful' or 'artful' when, in reality, it's still just a panty shot. Showing a panty shot in a more artsy, angled way does not make it any better. It is what it is and it's stupid. 4. They use their fancy camera angles to make the story seem more 'deep', but in reality they are often poorly placed and annoying. The only show of theirs that I have seen this work in is Madoka Magica, and it that show the camera angles and all their typical wanna-be 'artsy' sillyness was perfect and masterfully executed. 5. Their shows are always sexist in some form or another. It's subtle, but it's there. But this kinda goes hand in hand with all of their shows being either harem or loli. 6. I don't know, just.. there's just something about their stuff in addition to what I have already mentioned. Every SHAFT show I have ever tried to watch or actually managed to watch I have either dropped or not enjoyed, oftentimes without ever knowing it was SHAFT. I remember that as stupid as the series was, I had enjoyed Negima!- watched the entire first season (26 eoisdoes). I went to try to watch the OVA sequels and had to drop them after only about 5 minutes. Years later I learned the OVAs and sequel had been picked up by SHAFT, which explained a lot. 7. Their harems are absurd and ridiculous, yet they try to come off as serious and they take themselves seriously. In the end, they come off as pretentious, and pretentious harems are, well... Come on. Pretentious harems. There is little else more absurd than that. I also dropped Maria Holic after one episode, if that. I had no idea it was SHAFT when I watched it and I am rather found of shoujo ai. I get that it was a parody of the genre which I thought would be amusing since I am familiar with the genre. Instead, it was just hard to watch and BAD. Watched all of Moonphase and Dance in the Lolicon Bund, for some reason. Both series are pseudo-harems featuring girls in the body of 10 year olds as the main love interest. I don't care if they are actually 100000 years old. They only threw that angle in so that they could have pedophilia in there without everyone freaking out, because Japan. I watched all of Uta Kata and while I enjoyed it somewhat, they still managed to slip lolicon and fanservice into the series. The worst was that they were panty shots of 10-12 year old girls that were just really out of place and creepy. It isn't a comedy, AT ALL, so it made it all the more creepy and disturbing. Madoka I feel was good because they didn't really have guys in the series, so they utterly eliminated the harem and lolicon elements.Just taking these two elements out of their formula made the show over 10x better. |
AmberlehMar 20, 2013 12:47 PM
Gash_V-D_Hetchum said: Azraniel said: Option 2 Hype? The fanservice on this series is pretty much about adolescences parody of teenagers who are curios in being a relationship, in terms of substance on how to deal with oddities and philosophies xxxHolic has a better one. X-anime is better than Y-anime. Fanservice: Can't be good, unobjective. My statement was subjective, my praise about it is on how hilarious it turned out. And yes it wasn't really deep as how it wants to be, not sure if looks appealing in a casuals perspective to be known ed overhyped, so I stand in an apathy. |
AzranielMar 20, 2013 12:59 PM
"Deep." |
| @Amber, thanks! Now my turn: Well, Shaft isn't really the spring of culture. They've made a ton of shows that I'm not too interested in. And I do agree with you when you say they have an unhealthy obsession with loli characters. They don't handle them maturely (unlike in the novel "Lolita") instead making them get into uncomfortable fanservice scenes. But they do have a few exceptions (namely Madoka, the Monogatari Series, and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei). First, I will have to explain that I am a dog. I like shinny things. Mindlessly. And unlike you, I'm not a visual artist. I lack the technical know-how with art. I just like Shaft's art style since it is distinct. For no other reason than that. I'm anti-generic, so this fits my bill. Now: my obligatory defense on the Monogatari Series. The series as a whole is worthy of praise. It's not just about a boy's supernatural harem, but about the development of his bonds with them and how it all slowly depletes, leaving only the supernatural aspects of the story as well as his gradually maturing romance. I voted option 1 for Bakemonogatari because I think it makes for a good representative of the series. It has all the girls and sets up the supernatural setting. Unless Kizumonogatari will prove to be a better representative, I'm going to stick to this one. |
| It is neither good or bad enough to be mentioned in either of our lists. (your vote) My opinion of the series is pretty much the same as Haak's, so I won't be going in length with this. The use of dialogue, visuals and camera angles are fresh at first and interesting but they become a bit repetitive after a while. Furthermore, more often than not heavy dialogue serves no purpose in characterisation/plot progression and is instead used just because. I don't mind a lot of talking in the least, but there's got to be some purpose/goal in it; if there isn't, then it's talking just for the sake of talking. The focus of the series is obviously on the characters, but I felt the monster/girl of the week/arc format didn't work for me and thus I pretty much didn't care about the characters. Overall, an interesting concept and a different take on a tired formula that gives fresh blood to it. I definitely don't consider it a bad series (overhyped definitely, but not bad), however, it's not worthy of the Enlightenment list either. |
metamorphiusMar 20, 2013 1:17 PM
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| Unremarkable. Bakemonogatari has an interesting narrative which is based on the stream of conciousness technique and the dialogues don't follow a standard logic but rather they flow by associating ideas and concepts which is quite unusual at least in anime. The weaknesses of the show are obviously the arc format with a different girl each time, and probably the inconsistency in quality, as the first two arcs are FAR more interesting than the other since they have far more meaningful and interesting dialogues, while the other ones seemed like a different take on common tropes (kanbaru and nadeko). I could further expand both those points but this is not really a review so I don't think it's necessary. Consider, though, that Bakemonogatari is only ONE installment of a novel series, and it might be wise to wait for the rest of the adaptations before making a real judgement on the whole franchise - Bake could be setup for possibly enlightening sequels. |
ValkqtMar 20, 2013 6:36 PM
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Haakonwale said: It is neither good or bad enough to be mentioned in either of our lists. (your vote) Bakemonogatari is by no means a bad series, but it's not especially good either. It utilize a pretty clever style of dialogue and visuals to make it seem deeper and more intelligent than it actually is, which is praiseworthy in and of itself but objectively speaking, it's nothing special. It has some interesting characters and a interesting concept, but the focus was on the wrong things and as Amberleh says, the girl of the week theme really ruins a lot of enjoyment. I would recommend it to people who I know enjoys/tolerates a lot of fanservice and heavy dialogue but it's not for everyone. Less harem and more "exorcism" and it would be much, much better. (sorry for abusing the word "but") This is mostly my opinion as well, but I think it is still a worthy entry if you are interested in the genre. Option 2 it is. |
| Jojolion anime when? |
| I voted two, while it a good anime but it also has some flaws My opinion on Bakemonogatari is similar to metamorphius opinion. Also I liked Araragi, Anekawa and Senjougahara but I disliked all others characters. I liked the dialogues but I disliked the supernatural elements. @Amberleh : you dislike SHAFT anime company ? I suggest you try Arakawa Under the Bridge, the awkwards situations make this anime extremely funny, it's a very touching anime imo, no harem/loli elements in it, and there's no weird camera positions like in Bakemonogatari. The first season is great. |
| Off-topic, but I agree with Shiranui. Arakawa and arguably Hidamari are the modern SHAFT shows where style fits substance pretty well. |
| Jojolion anime when? |
| Yeah Arakawa is one that I intend to try out as it looks nice. The faces in Hidamari bother me too much but I might try it eventually. Also, in regards to my vote I'll go ahead and change mine to 'unremarkable'. |
| Their faces can never be wide enough. |
| Jojolion anime when? |
| It is made of excellence, and deserves to be added to our Enlightenment list. (your vote) I don't care for the plot but the dialogue (Which makes up about 95% of the show) is absolutely amazing. I can't put my finger on exactly what I liked about the show and its sequels. But for whatever reason, I think the show is fantastic Amberleh said: Yeah Arakawa is one that I intend to try out as it looks nice. The faces in Hidamari bother me too much but I might try it eventually. Also, in regards to my vote I'll go ahead and change mine to 'unremarkable'. Hidamari is great, but just be warned that Season 1 looks horrible. |
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| No no no! Bakemonogatari is amazing because it spams innuendos and fanservice every second! Plus, it has this ball of fun: |
Ducat_RevelMar 20, 2013 11:53 PM
| I voted that Bakemonogatari is neither good enough nor bad enough to be on either list. Why? Because, for me, I didn't believe that the writers, director or studio ever meant for it to be taken seriously. Viewing it in that light, I found it to be a parody of sorts and as such it worked well for me. I don't know what the original author had in mind because I never read any of the work. The series is not original, but as a parody I laughed my head off at many of the scenes in it. The characters are cliche, but I didn't care. The interplay between Senjhogahara and Araragi was not original but it did work. It wasn't as good as the interplay between Craft Lawrence and Holo in Spice and Wolf, but few would be that good.That's my 2 cent's worth. |
| I always thought one of Nisio's biggest strength was the steady switch between parody and non-parody elements. Medaka Box utilizes this as well. |
| Jojolion anime when? |
Furykury1 said: The characters are cliche, but I didn't care. The interplay between Senjhogahara and Araragi was not original but it did work good Mind posting examples before calling characters cliche..? |
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Nidhoeggr said: I always thought one of Nisio's biggest strength was the steady switch between parody and non-parody elements. Medaka Box utilizes this as well. Nothing wrong with parody. I just see this series as better than average but not to be in either list. |
KnightRyderMar 22, 2013 1:47 PM
tsudecimo said: Furykury1 said: The characters are cliche, but I didn't care. The interplay between Senjhogahara and Araragi was not original but it did work good Mind posting examples before calling characters cliche..? OK, Meme Oshino reminds me of many of the aloof, unattached teacher/guru types. He most resembles Kisuke Urahara from Bleach Hitagi Senjougahara is a tsundere bordering on yandere type. She is a less dangerous version of Yuno Gasai of Mirai Nikki or Lucy from Elfen Lied. Koyoomi Araragi is pretty typical of many harem anime guys....not particularly strong, somewhat pervy, but willing to be helpful. He most reminds me of Kazuki Shikimori from Maburaho. Does that help? I had to look up some spelling of names. |
Furykury1 said: tsudecimo said: Furykury1 said: The characters are cliche, but I didn't care. The interplay between Senjhogahara and Araragi was not original but it did work good Mind posting examples before calling characters cliche..? OK, Meme Oshino reminds me of many of the aloof, unattached teacher/guru types. He most resembles Kisuke Urahara from Bleach Hitagi Senjougahara is a tsundere bordering on yandere type. She is a less dangerous version of Yuno Gasai of Mirai Nikki or Lucy from Elfen Lied. Koyoomi Araragi is pretty typical of many harem anime guys....not particularly strong, somewhat pervy, but willing to be helpful. He most reminds me of Kazuki Shikimori from Maburaho. Does that help? I had to look up some spelling of names. I can agree to some degree about Oshino but ROFL @ Hitagi and Araragi. You don't seem to know what cliche is apparently oh well ~moving on. |
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| This poll will close in a couple of hours. I'll give it 13 hours to be exact. Comment and vote now while you still have a chance to save this harem and all its erratic glory. |
| Generic. There is not really any story to speak of but loosely connected monster/harem girl-of the week arcs. The characters are various combinations of cliches without any special "POP POP" as far as I can see. As for the dialogues, I always found them way too exaggerated and gag humour focused, to the point where it seemed more like some actors reading lines off a script rather than any meaningful or engrossing character interaction. This in turn lead the already unremarkable characters to become pretty dull, with barren personalities only recognizable by whatever flavour of comedy/fanservice fetishes they generate. So in short, it plays pretty much like Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, only this one keeps suddenly trying to take itself seriously and put on somewhat pretentious airs before falling back into the gag comedy it is based on. I have to wonder though whether this is due to the actual novels themselves or Shaft's directing. Not that it matters. |
| It's a mix of both. Shaft's art really added a lot to the "pretentious" nature of the dialogue since White Fox's Katanagatari's dialogue, while still lengthy, is nowhere close to pretentious or useless. |
| It is made of excellence, and deserves to be added to our Enlightenment list. (your vote) I like the comedy, story, and animation style. It's not good because of hype, it's good because it's legitimately good. It's different from all the other generic anime out there and all anime fans should watch it and appreciate it for what it is. |
NyaaMar 23, 2013 12:51 AM
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| Apparently, my sense of time has been greatly affected by the extensive amount of hours I lost to Homestuck. This poll still has a day to go. Have fun. |
Ducat_Revel said: Maybe you should make a note to past you, asking him to mind his time. In a condescending and abusive manner of course. You know he'll love it.Apparently, my sense of time has been greatly affected by the extensive amount of hours I lost to Homestuck. This poll still has a day to go. Have fun. |
Baman said: Ducat_Revel said: Maybe you should make a note to past you, asking him to mind his time. In a condescending and abusive manner of course. You know he'll love it.Apparently, my sense of time has been greatly affected by the extensive amount of hours I lost to Homestuck. This poll still has a day to go. Have fun. Alright. I don't think past me will mind violating time paradoxes. He'll probably get a kick out of it. |
| I voted option 1 (enlightenmnet), and have one reason for doing so that stands high above any other factor. This is what can be done with anime. An experience like this would not have been possible in any other medium. I mean that literally. A live-action show can't do this. A book wouldn't have come anywhere close. I absolutely love discovering things that remind me why I watch cartoons from Japan, and this was one of them. Someone decided to make this and break the cycle of typical anime, to finally utilize the art form they had been given. Now, from that heap of praise I must consider this the greatest thing to ever grace the earth, right? No. It wasn't a perfect series. Far from it. Some of the characters were shallower than they should have been, that's true. And as stated previously - "The weaknesses of the show are obviously the arc format with a different girl each time, and probably the inconsistency in quality, as the first two arcs are FAR more interesting than the other since they have far more meaningful and interesting dialogues, while the other ones seemed like a different take on common tropes (kanbaru and nadeko)." - Valkyrion. Now, many posters have been criticizing this show for its fanservice, but, that's not entirely fair. This show is about perversions. That is its core. Each character we encounter is a manifestation of at least one of Araragi's sexual predilections. Yes, their are lolis, because Araragi is a pedophile, or at the very least a hebephile. This is a part of the show, and while I usually dislike blatant fanservice in anime, I do not condemn any that appears here because it is not thrown in for no reason. You wouldn't criticize a Human Sexualities course for discussing sex and fantasies, would you? Lastly, past any troubles that the story had, the script, voice acting, and music were near impeccable. I only noticed 2-3 times that the music wasn't right in tone with the visuals, and it is a soundtrack that definitely enhances the show. Of course, people have already said their fill regarding the dialogue in this series, so I won't comment much. I will say that I didn't find it overbearing or too hard to handle though. All in all, this was a highly addictive and intoxicating series that fulfilled its purpose as an anime, and I believe it deserving of the enlightenment list. |
| Whoops! This went on too long. I now close this poll and deem this series unremarkable. Better luck next time, Ararararararagi. |
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