Psycho-Pass Episode 20 Discussion

-michira- said:

I hate Sybil too. I wanted to make accent that I'm a girl that hates him, coz
almost all Psycho-Pass fangirls are like: "OMG he's killing Yuki, He's so adorable <3" or "Makishima is so cute, hot, lovely etc." :|||

Linkark07 said:
Am I the only one that wants Makishima to win?

danmari said:
...

-michira- said:
I meant that if you check out a scene when Makishima kills yuki (on youtube) there are comments like: "Omg he's doing it sooo cute~<3 I luv him"
-uh seriously? is killing an innocent person cute?

And yeah I have some favorite psychopaths too and I don't thinks it's wrong to like Mkishima. I just can't understand why don't fangirls fell even a little sorry for his victims (I mean innocent ones like Yuki, actually I liked him too when he kicked that bitches ass (Kaseis i mean))

bakuramariks said:


Nope. I wanna see everything going to hell because in my life, i've never seen a show where the "bad" wins. It will be truly something awesome for me to see, though i doubt it'll happen.

Litrydow said:


You mean like

-MgZ_ said:
Should've just destroyed the Sibyl System right there. Damn Akane. Sigh.

hazimechan said:

Makishima's smile is so scary...

Danielcook said:


Cliffhanger ending anyone?

Makashima spontaneously disapears along with Kogami?

bakuramariks said:


Of course i know they weren't directed at me. Why do you think that?
I just found it really shocking to see people who can't comprehend why some people may like psychopaths.

MsDiva said:


And exactly WHO said 'anyone' didn't understand that...?? Clearly, the person who is not understanding something is you. I didn't say anything about people not enjoying the psychopaths. The fact that you (and others who) feel that way recognizes these characters for who/what they are is not what our (me, danmari, and michira) freakin' dialogue was about.

I mean, seriously....the fact that you started off your comment w/ 'Some people simply loves him for being who he really is - a psychopath.' already proves you came playing in from complete wrong side of the field. And you mention it again, as stated in the quoted comment above, even though you 'claim' to know it wasn't directed at you (or people that think like you)...yet you still making the sam unrelated 'some people loving psychopaths' comments.

Well no shit, Sherlock--but that's NOT the group for 'some people' we were talking about. <_<

See, the 'other people' we were getting at are those blinded bishōnen fangirl/boy (hey if they roll that way too, I ain't leaving them) that don't see his character for what he really IS--as we've all stated, a socio/psychopath--and instead want to elevate him to some sort of 'hero/good guy' status simply b/c he's 'hawt'. All the while completing ignoring his true nature (which by no means is far from heroic or good guy).

While you may not have been on point w/ what we talking about, I do understand your point of view of you (or others that have similar ideas) of why you like his character--even though you know he's a psychopath. And you know what? There's nothing wrong w/ it at all. Why? Because you at least came w/ very logical and thought-out reason for your liking his character--it went beyond superficial.

AnimageNeby said:

Butting in here.

albeit he's a psychopath, and his actions itself are immoral, his stated goal and purpose isn't all that invalid. He makes some very poignant points, and is right in that the societal system he lives in, should be destroyed. He may be cruel, but in some respect, the sybil system is even far worse.

XartaX said:
I actually find myself kinda agreeing with the system. If a persons threat to society has been neutralized, there is no need for further punishment. In fact, punishment for the sake of punishment has been proven to not work - look no farther than the insanely high prison population in the US.

If these criminals no longer pose a threat to society, and are in fact enhancing it, then there is no need for punishment. Prison is a place to put people to *prevent* them from doing further damage to society, not to punish them.

jimbob1141 said:


I don't mean to sound rude, but have you been watching the show? there is more to it than the criminally asymptomatic people.

Or did you specifically mean you agree with that part of the system? if so, pardon my rudeness xD

Still, i don't agree with it. criminals judging if we pose a threat to society? no thanks. You can see by watching the show that their judgements are way off and cause people to suffer. I personally do not support sibyl, though i'm not blind i can see the good sides to :)

XartaX said:


1. Say you don't mean to be rude 2. be rude.

Welp, whatever.

I was simply referring to what teh sibyl system says during this episode, that the people among them who had performed criminal acts don't need to be punished, since they have a positive impact upon society now.

And of 'course the system has downsides, but from what I can see there are a lot fewer of them than in most societies today except for a few (like in Norway, which operates on a similar principle of reforming people rather than just letting them rot. Prison is mostly used on people who are dangerous to society in some way). Yes, some people have been shown to suffer, but it seems like a lot less than, say, in the US.

If you wish to punish someone who are no longer a danger to society, and is in fact helping it, you're simply acting upon your own selfishness and the one who is ACTUALLY a danger society is you - since you wish to deprive society of a positive element.

XartaX said:


1. Say you don't mean to be rude 2. be rude.

Welp, whatever.

I was simply referring to what teh sibyl system says during this episode, that the people among them who had performed criminal acts don't need to be punished, since they have a positive impact upon society now.

And of 'course the system has downsides, but from what I can see there are a lot fewer of them than in most societies today except for a few (like in Norway, which operates on a similar principle of reforming people rather than just letting them rot. Prison is mostly used on people who are dangerous to society in some way). Yes, some people have been shown to suffer, but it seems like a lot less than, say, in the US.

If you wish to punish someone who are no longer a danger to society, and is in fact helping it, you're simply acting upon your own selfishness and the one who is ACTUALLY a danger society is you - since you wish to deprive society of a positive element.

symbv said:
@XartaX I think you have made some very good points about the validity and benefits the Sybil system serves the current society (which is clearly why Akane found it so hard not to help the system get Makishima). One thing though - I have a feeling that they do not lose their sense of self when doing their job, at least according to what I understand from what Kasei said, but what this episode told us is that it does NOT matter if they all think with their own mind (with a lot of them being deeply criminal) because the judgement of the system is taken as a whole, and those (criminal) irregulars serve to improve the reliability as well as potential of evolution and development for the system. It seems that the system is not a simple majority voting by those (criminal) brains but a much more complex one, and the irregulars serve more to stabilize the result and improve its scope.

jimbob1141 said:


I wasn't really being rude, it seemed as though you missed all the down sides of it, so i was simply asking if you have actually been watching because they are so blatantly put across but it seems you do fully see the down sides of it.

I never said they should be punished, i just don't think they should have the right to be judging people like that. Instead innocent people are suffering because they love something a lot? is that really better? I do not wish to deprive society of a positive element, i just think people should be entitled to do their hobbies however much they like without being sent to prison, is that so wrong?

It does have the good sides of assigning jobs and that, but it leaves humans with no ambition and we become sort of like robots just doing as we're told. and anyone who does wish to go after their ambition will be sent to jail, that isn't the sort of society i would like to live in to be honest.

XartaX said:
Once again missing my entire point, which is that the suffering in the past is inconsequential if it is not going to occur again - if the likelihood of repeat occurance is low. The "weight" of the "suffering of the past" is zero, nilch. The thing you have to weight it against is the suffering that can be caused in the future. Since this show likes to use quotes so much: “To err is human; to forgive, divine.” It's not the past that matters, it's the future (although you can obviously LEARN from the past).

Obviously if sibyl has a negative impact upon society as a whole it has to be dealt with - but the show thus far clearly show it doesn't (although it might clash with your normal sense of what's right and wrong in some of it's actions. But if you dig deeper, all societies do, really). Although there have been shown to be occurances of what we'd perceive as injustice, there also seems to be a lot less of it than today from what we've been shown. The rest of society lives in a relative utopian environment.

And if we're to follow it's logic then it IS likely that the system would shut itself down if it judged itself to be a threat to society. From what I've gathered the "brains" 1. aren't the system as a whole, they are just supporting it, being used to process tasks in parallell. Which leads to 2. Brains are being used, yes, but there is a computer framework at the bottom of the system from what I understood. 3. they seem to lose their sense of self - even if they claim otherwise (like Kasei did). If not, I doubt they would want Makishima in there. It's obvious they think he will submit and "join" them once he's "integrated".

It overrode the dominator because Kagari was precisely judged to be a threat to stability of society in a neutral fashion. Like I said the brains seem to be a part of a system that is built upon a computer. As far as I know no members of Sibyl have been shown to hate Kagari personally for any reason (<- that is my fashion for neutrality. For it not to be neutral, the Sibyl system must've had a personal reason to want him dead). Heck, all of this was explained this episode.

You can't really view the members of Sibyl as normal human beings anymore. Their "rule" doesn't bring them any benefits. No glory, no place in history - all anyone will remember is the Sibyl system, not Kasei or anyone else. So what if they have a personal god complex? If it is of benefit to society, then that is what's important.

2cents

XartaX said:
I also never said the past wasn't important (anyone with any kind of functional brain could understand that from my statement "Obviously you can LEARN from the past").

In addition, the example you bring up with cymatic scan is the perfect example of what I mean, it assesses the likelihood of the subject performing criminal acts in the FUTURE. Hence the whole "threat to society" point. This society doesn't judge people for what they have done at all, only for what they will possibly do in the future. Of 'course past actions can MAKE them a threat in the future as well, as when someone snap and perform a criminal action the likelihood of them doing it again in the future is usually high. If someone gets put into the reform facilities here after being tazed, and then their coefficient goes down again, they're released. This is demonstrated very clearly in the anime.

This episode is confusing.
So the shibi system killed Kogami for what? Can someone tell me the shibi information again? I'm lost here.

XartaX said:

Well, they obviously have an identity of sorts. But the reason I say they kinda lose themselves, is because.. well, they comply with the system once they join it. Surely there must be someone kind of similar to Makishima in there? There are hundreds of people like him in there, but not a single one is fighting against the system once they're in there (unless it turns out that someone in there is actually plotting against it by convincing it to share info with Akane, etc. That could actually be a thing), and obviously they think Makishima will follow suit once he's among them. That's why I'm saying they're kinda losing themselves. Sure, they still identify them as themselves, but they've been.. domesticated?

symbv said:
Domesticated? I like this word. I think this is what the Sybil system expects will happen to Makishima once he joins, and given serial killer like the plastication murderer is already tamed and made to serve the system indicates that it can indeed work. However, for me the fact that those guys keep their memory and lack of regret over what they did when they come out of the system to "rest" as individual (e.g. Kasei) is kind of worrying. I wonder what prevents those criminals from doing criminal things once they are in the body of Kasei, separate from the system.

XartaX said:
Exactly where did I say that? I've constantly been saying that all systems have downsides, you just have to weigh the upsides against the downsides. And from the beginning I was only saying I kind of agreed with a certain assessment made by the system, not that I think it's the perfect form of government (but it sure seems better than a lot of governments today). "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." Of 'course, this is all assuming reality would turn out like it did in the anime - which is highly unlikely.

And yes, if that hobby damages society, then they shouldn't be allowed to keep doing it. That's why we ban e.g. CP. However if it causes no damage to society, then they should be allowed to keep doing it.

I haven't really seen anyone being sent to jail just for doing another job than the system tells them to? The closest thing would be those musicians who were "nonapproved", but as far as I gathered it wasn't illegal, it was just kinda underground.

Also by "you" I don't mean you personally (referring to my last paragraph in my response to you), the word can be used in another way as well... Substitute it with "someone" and it has the exact same meaning.

jimbob1141 said:
yeah i just jumped the gun a bit sorry about that. yayoi was sent to that place because of her love of music?

And when she pointed the dominator at the musician that wasn't assigned that job it said she was a target for enforcement. if i recall correctly the school girls dad was sent to "jail" for being an obsessive painter or artist, that isn't harming society, nor is playing in a band without being approved. your CC rising for playing in an unaproved band tells me that if you don't follow the system then your CC is gonna rise. All in all i personally don't like the system, of course it has its good points too but personally i think the bad out weighs the good. I would be in jail for sure as i'm fairly obsessive about my hobbies >.<

I imagine yayoi and that other musicians ambition was to have a career in music, which wasn't assigned to them which in turn caused their CC to rise which is mainly where i get the "going to jail for doing a different career" from. Humans aren't allowed ambitions under the sibyl system pretty much >.<

I know "you" doesn't necessarily mean me personally, but i was debating with you so i just took it that way :)

newnar said:
Kasei is just a pawn of Sybil. In fact Kasei's body is a ROBOT. That robot swaps controllers every now and then, how can you be sure it was Kasei who killed Kagari. It was Sybil as a whole, not one mind's decision. Sybil already said that they only make decisions as a combined intellectual, not individual.

phoenixalia said:


that might leave a possibility for a second season.