symbv said: Precisely, you put it there to stop any discussion from starting. You prefer to start an argument, a flame war. There was no discussion and you did not want to have any discussion. You just barged in to make attack in a mean way, to provoke, to hurt, to spread hatred, to start an argument. You never have any intention to guide this thread to a proper discussion. This is your biggest problem. Symbv, I'm honestly a bit shocked right now what kind of malicious intent you want to credit me here. Is it that hard to believe that I merely wanted to voice my opinion as well? "To hurt, to spread hatred".. you almost make me sound evil ;_; Yes, I didn't have any intention to guide this thread, that's not my function. If other people would've liked to actually discuss this "topic", what would've stopped them? You could've reported my post and/or simply not pay attention to it, especially if you think that I really only wanted to derail this thread - which I honestly didn't. symbv said: As I said, by making the atmosphere in this thread so poisonous and filled with hatred that reasonable discussion is no longer possible. And of course by then you can just shrug and disappear into another corner of the forum, perhaps doing the same to other thread just because you read some hypes for a show "you don't actually care" Now you're just being silly, reasonable discussions are no longer possible because of one post? Even after you guys continued to reply to me, you could've stopped now and discuss this topic instead. You chose not to and to discuss my behaviour though for some reason. What's more interesting, is how you knew that I was going to respond if you're replying, and therefore further derailing the thread yourself. Seriously, if on other forums there's a reply which is offtopic/seems like a derail-bait or they simply disagree with, then people simply don't go batshit insane over it and move on. Why is it so hard to do the same here, and instead constantly go on and on about how one person, with one post, single handedly "desroyed" this thread? You could say the same about my initial post of course, but as I said earlier, we're all free to voice our opinions here, especially if the OP made such a lousy attempt at a topic. synbw said: Because you kept replying to me and I was actually interested in a discussion at first, which only changed when the OP continued to articulate himself like a 14 year old CoD gamer. You already made multiple posts here, didn't you? symbw said: No, it's not a good habit. But we're all grown ups here, people shouldn't get this offended by something like "overrated crap". ? Well, then perhaps it is time for some reflection: is it a good habit you picked up from those place you frequent? How do you like people calling things you love dearly crap? Even if you do not feel offended, would you feel better compared to someone coming back with some constructive criticism? Of course I could've given constructive criticsm to the points the OP raised, but again, from his opening post it was already clear that he wasn't interested in an actual discussion - which is only further backed up by his later posts. Yes, my opinion may have been worded harshly and you may not agree with it. So, what's the big deal? Why not get over it, not reply to me at all or something, and discuss what you actually wanted to discuss? I really don't like how I'm made out to be the bad guy here. Yes, I could've stayed out of this thread completely, but it was up in the ticker and I was interested by the title. When the OP did nothing more but voicing his opinion though, I didn't feel the need to put much more effort into my reply than he. And again, this wouldn't have stopped you from discussing whatever this topic was intended to discuss. |
| References =/= inspiration. We know JJBA is popular, doesn't make it inspirational. "clever battle's instead of 'hey lets just punch the shit out of everything' rings a bell" Been done way before Jojo. It neither invented it nor popularized it. And that said, Jojo still doesn't have anything clever. |
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| Oh my goodness where do I even begin Hunter x Hunter? Zeno Zaoldyeck (Hunter x Hunter) hunterxhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Zeno_Zoldyck Wang Chun (Jojo's Bizarre Adventure) i.imgur.com/UmI78dP.png I could do a bit more but not witout going into spoiler territory. I'm not knocking HxH (it's my second favorite Shonen Manga ever), but really? oh and about Hisoka, I heard the same thing too, but I also don't see it |
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x5exotic said: References =/= inspiration. We know JJBA is popular, doesn't make it inspirational. "clever battle's instead of 'hey lets just punch the shit out of everything' rings a bell" Been done way before Jojo. It neither invented it nor popularized it. And that said, Jojo still doesn't have anything clever. If all you've seen is the anime, you do realize, you're judging a whole 100+ volume series by only 12 volumes worth of material? Just hold on till it gets the eighties out of it's system. |
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x5exotic said: Not really. DBZ is the one that popularized it, and HxH -virtually- perfected that whole fighting aspect. So Toriyama is the one who gets credit here for that. And I fail to see anything in jojoa that actually inspired anything in modern manga. How are HxH, OP, Bleach etc inspired by Jojo? I kept hearing all the time how Hisoka's design was inspired by Dio or Gio or whoever but I don't see anything remotely close. @OP, No. HxH is the shonen that is done right. (not the hiatus part though) but then again, I don't want all shonen to be exactly the same so noty nothing to see here everyone mind his own bu'ness. >DBZ It's called Dragonball and if you read more than half a dozen manga you would know that. But as usual, the usual Shounen fanboys come out of the corner and hype their favourite... i said earlier that Jojo popularized the personal manifestion of a fighting spirit trope, which is the foudnation of the Nen system, for example. Also, half of the Touhou characters, some of the iconic lines in history as well as the designs and powers of a lot of manga characters are based off of Jojo. Not to mention the constant references most manga and anime series make in regards to the series. HxH gets credit for it's storyline and consistency but it is certainly not as iconic as Jojo - I will also refrain from insulting Togashi and his "work ethics" here. You and Hurricane need to actually start reading manga for real and learn to apprciate what some of the classic series brought us. Stuff like "1987 or the future. Doesn't matter. " (Hurricane) just screams ignorance. You two need to stop talking shit when you haven't even read a single manga that is subject of the discussion here. You are prime examples of Toriyama and Togashi fanboys. Also, Toriyama was never a big fan of tactics as far as battles are concerned. He did create a very influental and imho great series, but stop giving him credit for aspects her just isn't good at. Anyway, I'm done here. It's pointless wasting time with people who pretend they know it all when they have less read series than my 4-year old cousin on their lists. |
NidhoeggrFeb 27, 2013 8:01 AM
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
Nidhoeggr said: x5exotic said: Not really. DBZ is the one that popularized it, and HxH -virtually- perfected that whole fighting aspect. So Toriyama is the one who gets credit here for that. And I fail to see anything in jojoa that actually inspired anything in modern manga. How are HxH, OP, Bleach etc inspired by Jojo? I kept hearing all the time how Hisoka's design was inspired by Dio or Gio or whoever but I don't see anything remotely close. @OP, No. HxH is the shonen that is done right. (not the hiatus part though) but then again, I don't want all shonen to be exactly the same so noty nothing to see here everyone mind his own bu'ness. >DBZ It's called Dragonball and if you read more than half a dozen manga you would know that. But as usual, the usual Shounen fanboys come out of the corner and hype their favourite... i said earlier that Jojo popularized the personal manifestion of a fighting spirit trope, which is the foudnation of the Nen system, for example. Also, half of the Touhou characters, some of the iconic lines in history as well as the designs and powers of a lot of manga characters are based off of Jojo. Not to mention the constant references most manga and anime series make in regards to the series. HxH gets credit for it's storyline and consistency but it is certainly not as iconic as Jojo - I will also refrain from insulting Togashi and his "work ethics" here. You and Hurricane need to actually start reading manga for real and learn to apprciate what some of the classic series brought us. Stuff like "1987 or the future. Doesn't matter. " (Hurricane) just screams ignorance. DBZ. DBZ. It's shorter. So I'll call it that. You don't say? Once again, Toriyama is the one who used it before and the one who popularized it. Iconic or not, neither are as iconic as DBZ or the other more popular series. So that doesn't mean anything. Also HxH has inspired anime more than Jojo, which got a lot of references. @gedata well this is an anime thread with even the OP himself not being a manga reader and praising it based on the 12 volumes of material. So I think I can also criticize it the same way. |
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bNq said: As I said, saying a show is "overrated crap" does not count much as an opinion. It is ranting meant to offend to provoke. Symbv, I'm honestly a bit shocked right now what kind of malicious intent you want to credit me here. Is it that hard to believe that I merely wanted to voice my opinion as well? bNq said: Who knows what was your intent when you rushed to post a provocative remark? If JoJo is such a show you don't care, then why would you have so much annoyance pent up that you had to reply in this thread? Anyway, by making a post that is meant to bash in a thread that is meant to start a discussion of how other adaptations might have to learn from JoJo's adaptation, I would like to think that you at least care about this show, or at least this show's fans, that you want to make your presence felt. And yes, "to hurt", if only the feeling of those fans. "To hurt, to spread hatred".. you almost make me sound evil ;_; Yes, I didn't have any intention to guide this thread, that's not my function. If other people would've liked to actually discuss this "topic", what would've stopped them? You could've reported my post and/or simply not pay attention to it, especially if you think that I really only wanted to derail this thread - which I honestly didn't. bNq said: By the time I wrote my last post, it is no longer one post isn't it? You are already starting to derail this thread. Fortunately most other posters deem it better to ignore your rant and your silly attitude shown in your first post. Now you're just being silly, reasonable discussions are no longer possible because of one post? bNq said: So you admit your continued posting is derailing the thread, right? You continue to post here to defend your childish attitude in your first post as if it was entirely right thing to do, to continue to poison this thread. I guess you just cannot let it go and say that you may have acting immature in your first post, can you? Even after you guys continued to reply to me, you could've stopped now and discuss this topic instead. You chose not to and to discuss my behaviour though for some reason. What's more interesting, is how you knew that I was going to respond if you're replying, and therefore further derailing the thread yourself. bNq said: Voicing a generalised rant as if it is your only worthy opinion to share is even more lousy. And seriously you may want to know that perhaps not every assault you do will end up with people just taking shit from you and moving on without confronting you. Perhaps up till now you are just having an easy time attacking people and see people move on so that you think you just succeed in your "hurt". Seriously, if on other forums there's a reply which is offtopic/seems like a derail-bait or they simply disagree with, then people simply don't go batshit insane over it and move on. Why is it so hard to do the same here, and instead constantly go on and on about how one person, with one post, single handedly "desroyed" this thread? You could say the same about my initial post of course, but as I said earlier, we're all free to voice our opinions here, especially if the OP made such a lousy attempt at a topic. bNq said: You showed you were interested in bashing and provoking from your first post. From then on, as I said it made any discussion much more difficult. As I went back to read your reply, honestly I do not see too much of any sincere attempt from you to start a discussion. I was actually interested in a discussion at first, which only changed when the OP continued to articulate himself like a 14 year old CoD gamer. bNq said: Glad that you said we are all grown-ups. Perhaps we should startNo, it's not a good habit. But we're all grown ups here, people shouldn't get this offended by something like "overrated crap". by acting like a grown-up at the very beginning and avoid using remarks that are meant to provoke and nothing else. bNq said: As I said above, if you do not like the way he phrased in his post, why not ignore it or voice a reply that set the discussion on a more meaningful ground, like a mature grown-up would do? If you started by NOT acting like a grown-up, why can you demand that people should act like a grown-up by ignoring your post, which is clearly meant to provoke and hurt? Why do you think it a big deal that you need to act defensive when people confront your attitude and approach here?Of course I could've given constructive criticsm to the points the OP raised, but again, from his opening post it was already clear that he wasn't interested in an actual discussion - which is only further backed up by his later posts. Yes, my opinion may have been worded harshly and you may not agree with it. So, what's the big deal? Why not get over it, not reply to me at all or something, and discuss what you actually wanted to discuss? I really don't like how I'm made out to be the bad guy here. Yes, I could've stayed out of this thread completely, but it was up in the ticker and I was interested by the title. |
symbvFeb 27, 2013 8:12 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
x5exotic said: Once again, Toriyama is the one who used it before and the one who popularized it. Iconic or not, neither are as iconic as DBZ or the other more popular series. So that doesn't mean anything. Also HxH has inspired anime more than Jojo, which got a lot of references. I'll be as frank as possible: STOP. TALKING. BULLSHIT. Seriously: Educate yourself before you talk so much nonsense. Tell me how HxH has more influence on the whole manga subculture than Jojo? amuse me with your vast knowledge of a dozen fucking manga and your hilarious statement that a series with 340 chapters on hiatus most of the time is more influental than a series that laid the foundation for HxH, Touhou and most other franchises you probably like. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| Prove that JJBA guy popularized it? Jojo does stand out among HxH and OP, etc...but each of them stands out for one reason or the other. Doesn't make it inspirational. And we're talking about WHAT should other anime now aspire to be, not what has already inspired anime to be (which you haven't proved that Jojo inspired anything yet). And among battle-shounen only, I'd say HxH. But shonen overall isn't all about aura and stuff. Post-edit: Jeez calm down first. Well the burden of proof falls on you since you're the one who claimed it's inspired a lot. Sure HxH uses something similar to Jojo, if Jojo did it first, then maybe you can call it inspiration, but it isn't so the inspiration credit goes somewhere else. And yes Togashi IS a fan of Jojo, much like Oda is, or Kishi, but I have yet to see anyone borrow an aspect from what I've seen of Jojo outside the "reference" zone, feel free to point them out. |
x5exoticFeb 27, 2013 8:15 AM
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| Hunter x Hunter influencing more manga than JJBA, sorry but that is WRONG! http://jjba.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_cultural_influences_of_JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure I have no problem with you calling it's quality into question, but to deny it it's place in as one of the most iconic mangas ever to hit Japan? Nope. |
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gedata said: Hunter x Hunter influencing more manga than JJBA, sorry but that is WRONG! http://jjba.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_cultural_influences_of_JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure I have no problem with you calling it's quality into question, but to deny it it's place in as one of the most iconic mangas ever to hit Japan? Nope. Dude someone already posted this. I already said: They are just references. Influence when you take a whole element and implement it into your own work and try to make it work within the context of said work. |
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x5exotic said: gedata said: Hunter x Hunter influencing more manga than JJBA, sorry but that is WRONG! http://jjba.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_cultural_influences_of_JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure I have no problem with you calling it's quality into question, but to deny it it's place in as one of the most iconic mangas ever to hit Japan? Nope. Dude someone already posted this. I already said: They are just references. Influence when you take a whole element and implement it into your own work and try to make it work within the context of said work. Yu Gi Oh was pretty much fathered by a few chapters of Jojo arc 3. And the Persona series as well. |
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Nidhoeggr said: @x5exotic: Ok, then show me manga around the same timespan as Jojo and teh Stand system that had more influence on the creation of all these series and their battle systems. Or actually try to show us how influental HxH is. We are waiting. This is weird. I already said the proof is required on your part first. Show me what Jojo inspired. So far you only got one: Stands inspired all the aura thing in recent series but that credit goes to DBZ, and even according to Rekien, it goes to Ken which did it first. So it's not Jojo. What else you got? I'll name what HxH inspired after you name yours. (even though I don't see the point since this is the point of the topic and I really don't see HxH as THAT big of an influence at all, I'm just saying it's more than Jojo's) |
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| I'll admit it, Hunter x Hunter is a great work of creativity when it comes to handling the genre it's in, no one is saying that it ripped off hue chunks of JJBA. But come on! there was some influence, there is nothing wrong with that, heck JJBA is rather similar to Hokuto no Ken at first. There is nothing wrong with paying homage to a series, just so long as it maintains it's own identity. |
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gedata said: x5exotic said: gedata said: Hunter x Hunter influencing more manga than JJBA, sorry but that is WRONG! http://jjba.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_cultural_influences_of_JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure I have no problem with you calling it's quality into question, but to deny it it's place in as one of the most iconic mangas ever to hit Japan? Nope. Dude someone already posted this. I already said: They are just references. Influence when you take a whole element and implement it into your own work and try to make it work within the context of said work. Yu Gi Oh was pretty much fathered by a few chapters of Jojo arc 3. And the Persona series as well. And Shaman King too. Both Kazuki Takahashi and Hiroyuki Takei are big fans of Jojo. Akira Amano's Reborn series seems inspired by Vento Aureo too. I assumed it's her favorite part since she fangirled over Narancia and Aerosmith during the Jojo tribute. |
| @gdata I know there is influence I'm just saying it's not as many as people make it out to be. HxH was influenced by many series itself. Including Jojo. @Rekien maybe the stands specifically inspired HxH. But no other series |
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revolverjunkie said: gedata said: x5exotic said: gedata said: Hunter x Hunter influencing more manga than JJBA, sorry but that is WRONG! http://jjba.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_cultural_influences_of_JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure I have no problem with you calling it's quality into question, but to deny it it's place in as one of the most iconic mangas ever to hit Japan? Nope. Dude someone already posted this. I already said: They are just references. Influence when you take a whole element and implement it into your own work and try to make it work within the context of said work. Yu Gi Oh was pretty much fathered by a few chapters of Jojo arc 3. And the Persona series as well. And Shaman King too. Both Kazuki Takahashi and Hiroyuki Takei are big fans of Jojo. Akira Amano's Reborn series seems inspired by Vento Aureo too. I assumed it's her favorite part since she fangirled over Narancia and Aerosmith during the Jojo tribute. things we wouldn't have if not for JJBA Yu Gi Oh! Shaman King Reborn Persona Guile's haircut Rose (Street Fighter) anyone else wanna chip in? gg HxH |
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gedata said: revolverjunkie said: gedata said: x5exotic said: gedata said: Hunter x Hunter influencing more manga than JJBA, sorry but that is WRONG! http://jjba.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_cultural_influences_of_JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure I have no problem with you calling it's quality into question, but to deny it it's place in as one of the most iconic mangas ever to hit Japan? Nope. Dude someone already posted this. I already said: They are just references. Influence when you take a whole element and implement it into your own work and try to make it work within the context of said work. Yu Gi Oh was pretty much fathered by a few chapters of Jojo arc 3. And the Persona series as well. And Shaman King too. Both Kazuki Takahashi and Hiroyuki Takei are big fans of Jojo. Akira Amano's Reborn series seems inspired by Vento Aureo too. I assumed it's her favorite part since she fangirled over Narancia and Aerosmith during the Jojo tribute. things we wouldn't have if not for JJBA Yu Gi Oh! Shaman King Reborn Persona Guile's haircut Rose (Street Fighter) anyone else wanna chip in? gg HxH Bleach Naruto Toriko One Piece + series that were inspired by those. (not HxH, but Togashi's works in general) |
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| I was referring to things that were obviously borrowed from JJBA, One Piece Bleach and Naruto borrow from previous Shonens in general, where as in Shaman King for example, the battles resemble fights from Stardust Crusaders but with less wit. |
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| Bleach and Naruto are infamous for "copying" Togashi's biggest works respectively. It doesn't get any more obvious than that. Same for the rest, and Idk about the series you mentioned but most of the series I named have been heavily inspired by togashi's. And as you can see, these are THE biggest 4 franchises at the moment (excluding Blue Exorcist's manga) |
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| Oh it's you! you changed your profile so I didn't recognize you for a moment Naruto is indeed a HxH rip-off But the rest remind me more of DBZ. And heck Togashi's work reminds me of DBZ too (but I think Togashi's work is better though). |
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gedata said: Oh it's you! you changed your profile so I didn't recognize you for a moment Naruto is indeed a HxH rip-off But the rest remind me more of DBZ. And heck Togashi's work reminds me of DBZ too (but I think Togashi's work is better though). I bet Togashi would just regard that (Naruto copying HxH) as a parody. When the same case was put up against him, that's what his excuse was anyway:http://mangafox.me/manga/yuyu_hakusho_dj_yoshirin_de_pon/v01/c001/9.html (you-know-what is Jojo by the way) |
| Well, I must say one thing first. If you have not read the manga, do not come respond because those who read the manga know very well respond to your comment. When the stand begins, the fights are more original and it is a lot better than other shonen. For those who do not know the manga, you should shut your mouth. You have not seen a fraction of Jojo. If you're not happy with that and do not agree that Jojo was a shonen who inspire others mangaka, although you bounded. Araki and Toriyama are the two that inspired the mangaka nowadays. Togashi has taken so much stuff to Araki, that we should put the question of if HXH would good if Jojo does'nt exst. The answer is no. If you just saw the anime of 2012, you do not have to answer, because you are in the dark because you need read Stardust Crusaders and Diamond is Unbreakable for now. Togashi even said himself and he does not hide. It is so popular that there are just a fan gathering to make postures and ect ... If you think this is not popular, but you're wrong because the manga exists since 25 years. The manga is renewed all the time and it is always good |
KiraYoshikage said: Well, I must say one thing first. If you have not read the manga, do not come respond because those who read the manga know very well respond to your comment. When the stand begins, the fights are more original and it is a lot better than other shonen. For those who do not know the manga, you should shut your mouth. You have not seen a fraction of Jojo. If you're not happy with that and do not agree that Jojo was a shonen who inspire others mangaka, although you bounded. Araki and Toriyama are the two that inspired the mangaka nowadays. Togashi has taken so much stuff to Araki, that we should put the question of if HXH would good if Jojo does'nt exst. The answer is no. If you just saw the anime of 2012, you do not have to answer, because you are in the dark because you need read Stardust Crusaders and Diamond is Unbreakable for now. Togashi even said himself and he does not hide. It is so popular that there are just a fan gathering to make postures and ect ... If you think this is not popular, but you're wrong because the manga exists since 25 years. The manga is renewed all the time and it is always good 1) This is the anime section, so no. We do get to talk as much as we'd like. Manga section is on the other side, go there. 2) from what most people say, P3 is mree of a typical shonen than BT so I doubt it. 3) Again, name the things he took and put in HxH? And how is the answer no? Because so far the writing in Jojo is not much at all compared to...anything. 4) So what? Popularity means what? Most of the on-going manga nowadays are much more popular than Jojo, and ever fanbase has otakus so yeah there are gatherings for everything. 5) What is your point exactly? |
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| The nen was plagiarism on hamon Hisoka was inspired by Dio(part 3) the Technic of Gon (jajanken) was inspired by the stand user, named Boy 2 Men (part4) Zeno Zoldyca share resemblances to Wang Chan The power of Bomber strangely resembles at Kira Yoshikage Stand. Anamuna and Kaitô Yu on Yuyu are inspired by the Arby brothers (part 3) Mitarai is inspires by the stand N'Duul(par 3) The limitation of power of the Sensui arc is like the Stand There are probably other point of inspiration. It is my point that I'm getting. Your famous Togashi took so much stuff at Jojo that you can't said think like that.Jojo was at the summit in 90 for shounen, but Araki has evolved and style are not really a shonen since the part 7. |
x5exotic said: I have never agreed with you more. It sounds really stupid to say that since someone hasn't read the manga that they should shut their mouth and are not allowed to post in a thread on the anime discussion board about the current progress of an anime.KiraYoshikage said: Well, I must say one thing first. If you have not read the manga, do not come respond because those who read the manga know very well respond to your comment. When the stand begins, the fights are more original and it is a lot better than other shonen. For those who do not know the manga, you should shut your mouth. You have not seen a fraction of Jojo. If you're not happy with that and do not agree that Jojo was a shonen who inspire others mangaka, although you bounded. Araki and Toriyama are the two that inspired the mangaka nowadays. 1) This is the anime section, so no. We do get to talk as much as we'd like. Manga section is on the other side, go there. And with that, so far JoJo is a good anime, not great though. The powers are interesting, the story is ok. I don't know how I feel about the changing of generations so fast. |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
| I'm talking about the work in general and it is better to talk about original version which is much better. I just mean those who are ignorant. We must go to the source and for that we must speak of the manga. It is very sensitive to based solely on the anime because Jojo become popular with the Stand. If you read the manga you should know that Parts 3 to 5 are not far. Just about everything that comes from Part 3 and more, everything change. Therefore, it is not appropriate to judge the two first part which are separate from the rest of the manga. |
| Having read Jojo from start to the end of SBR awhile back, I can say it's far from the ideal of any genre. It's made up of a lot of generic cliches, tropes, and stereotypical cast members who magically win every battle (aside a few times specifically for the story to pretend to "take an unexpected turn" which has, in the area of battle shounen, become hilariously typical) and some EXTREMELY unoriginal writing. Is it entertaining? Some parts - the parts that don't focus on shounen aspects (read as; part 4) are actually good. The rest is pretty goddamn bad and is akin to Touma meeting Naruto and Ichigo and having a festival of generic shounen protagonists instead of just one. It's basically like every other battle focused shounen out there, the only difference is the age of the main cast is a bit higher and the art style is a bit older. The writing, character designs in terms of how they are written and their personalities, settings, motivation, way the fights play out, way the fighting is done to begin with, and so on is all EXTREMELY generic - which could be fine if it was that way with some amazing writing or something unique to it, but it lacks that. It's just a pile of cliches and been-done-a-billion-times tropes and a very overdone writing style. Jojo is fine, but it's far from anything special or something to use as a guiding light. It's an every day run of the mill battle shounen, just with different style art. |
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| But isn't JJBA considered seinen? I mean, it was considered shounen in the 80's, because 80's was a lax time, but by today standards it would definitely be a seinen series. |
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| @MagnumBookworm You are correct. However, Part 1-6 is consider Shounen. It was then move as Seinen in Part 7+. Although I don't really know how the system works though. 80s and before it have some of the most graphic anime scene. Mod edit: removed off-t |
koleareMar 1, 2013 2:30 AM
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MagnumBookworm said: But isn't JJBA considered seinen? I mean, it was considered shounen in the 80's, because 80's was a lax time, but by today standards it would definitely be a seinen series. This is a shonen until Stone Ocean (SO is limited shonen) and this is after he becomes more a seinen. where the change to go into the magazine Ultra Jump |
MagnumBookworm said: But isn't JJBA considered seinen? I mean, it was considered shounen in the 80's, because 80's was a lax time, but by today standards it would definitely be a seinen series. Seinen and Shounen are demographics - it's only based on what magazine it's published in. Jojo was in Shounen Jump for most of it until a (kinda) recent move into a different publication. Nothing else determines something as shounen or seinen or any other demographic. |
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TallonKarrde23 said: which could be fine if it was that way with some amazing writing or something unique to it, but it lacks that. Jojo is lacking something unique to it. LOL! The overall style of the serie, the stand and the clever fights occuring because of it are not unique enough for you. I like the Nen in HxH, but Stands are a much more effective power system. |
SetsukoHara said: TallonKarrde23 said: which could be fine if it was that way with some amazing writing or something unique to it, but it lacks that. Jojo is lacking something unique to it. LOL! The overall style of the serie, the stand and the clever fights occuring because of it are not unique enough for you. I like the Nen in HxH, but Stands are a much more effective power system. Stands are far from something relevant enough to make the franchise unique. The stands are a gimmick - just like ninjutsu in Naruto (I assume they do that in it at least), bankai in bleach, espers in Index, and every other x in every other y. It's a changeable variable that doesn't change the uniquity of the series. This is why you can end up with even SPORTS series seeming the exact same as DBZ, when clearly magical spirit balls and someone hitting a baseball are nothing alike, and yet there is no feeling of originality there because the writing is the exact same for both. Stands are not unique because the are written like every single other special ability in anything ever. The concept of a stand was pretty cool - but where did it lead to? Just the same shounen battles you'll find in any other series of power vs power or special ability vs special ability. And saying "clever fights" is kind of an empty piece of praise. What was clever? It's pretty typical - having some strategy involved doesn't make it special, it makes it what you should expect from a series focused on fighting. Aside that the fights are actually pretty poor and extended way too long when the way to end them is already available much sooner. Instead, we get typical battle focused shounen - lets make this a billion pages long fight when the actual important events in it take about 30 seconds to cover. It's not just typical, it's extremely generic in how the battles are written, let alone the rest of it. As for the style, what's unique about it? The only truly unique aspect in comparison to other CURRENT shounen is the art style still looks dated - aside that the writing is literally the exact same as anything else of the same genres and demographics. The characters are hilariously cookie cutter (dio for example is a typical evil villain big mean guy who kills doggies and never ever dies because he's just soooo evil and baaad) and have nothing aside the typical personalities and ways of being as every other shounen, and the writing is your typical save the world because an evil big bad is being mean stuff. This is the problem with jojo fans - they treat the series like it's some amazingly unique special series. It's not. It's a very typical generic battle shounen/battle seinen with nothing remotely original about it and average writing. It's not BAD, but it's far from something special in any area of it's contents aside maybe the poses they strike from time to time. Feel free to love it, but don't act like it's something it's not. |
TallonKarrde23Feb 27, 2013 3:49 PM
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| I pretty much agree with TallonKarrde23. Jojo's is entertaining because of its crazyness. But it's far from having a solid plot or being anything special. I have a lot of fun reading it, but it's really just fights most of the time... KiraYoshikage said: The nen was plagiarism on hamon Not at all, there isn't almost any similarity. If anything, I would say nen resembles stands, except that nen is much more logic and follows certain rules. KiraYoshikage said: Hisoka was inspired by Dio(part 3) Not at all. Just no. In personality, you could hardly find two characters more different. KiraYoshikage said: the Technic of Gon (jajanken) was inspired by the stand user, named Boy 2 Men (part4) The only thing they have in common is that both are inspired in Rock, Paper and Scissors, a widely known game. The rules and characteristics of the technic are completely different. KiraYoshikage said: Zeno Zoldyca share resemblances to Wang Chan That's a tribute, the same than Meryem resembles Cell. |
BennyDelonFeb 27, 2013 5:06 PM
| There is no point asking them. As one of my post stated earlier. There is too much begging the question. An example: "As in Jojo generic reason is it's generic." It's a repeated reason. Neither sides willing to give a reasonable reasons until the other makes the first move. So I will try my best. Just call me Pro-Jojo. So far the current argument now is the term "generic." I'd say "No." Jojo isn't your average "generic" Shounen. First, "The way of how the manga formulate the Protagonist." The manga is formulate each Part with a different Jojo. Phantom Blood has Jonathan and Battle Tendency has Joseph. They both aren't the same character but are related. So each part is always a fresh Jojo. It also saves you time. For you don't really need to read previous arc to understand the whole series. Second are the Battle Instruments. In Part 1&2 has what we have call Ripple(Hamon). It follows the same characteristic in the real world. (Chi) Part 3 and beyond has what we call Stands. It is like a ghost that comes from your inner conscience or your potential of developing. A stand can person, animal, or thing. And not all Stand user are Human nor alive. Everyone can have Ripple or posses a Stand. However not everyone can master Hamon nor control Stands. Examples Holly Kujo (Read Part 3 or the OVA) and Speedwagon(for Ripple). Note: Part 7 has what it's call a Spin. It's basically the alternate world version of Ripple. Third how battles are resulted. Not all the good guys wins. And not all the bad guys win as well. If you watch the 2012 adaptation Jojo,or read the manga you know what happen to Jonathan. And of course Dio. Fourth is how the battles are fight. I am just going with the 2012 anime adaptation for now. I will breakdown for First Arc and Second Arc. The first arc does have barrage of fist attack. But not all the attacks are barrage fist. Some of the more stand out attack are tentacle veins, and of course magnetic leaves glider. And the usage of tactics in this case the surrounding (something that isn't supernatural) are understandable as law of nature. Jonathan breath the air bubble, or use fire to thaw his hand. Special mention for Speedwagon. It may not be a write of a genius but it's still reasonable to pass in it's own fictional world. Second arc is different though, especially if you watch Joseph fights Straights, Santana, and ACDC. Joseph isn't proclaim by others character, or a narrator that he is a genius like Naruto for example > Shikamaru has over 200 IQ. Joseph is a goofball that can back up his word, or I call him a Trickster(Joseph actually disguise as a women although fail). Why do some of us interpret Joseph as smart? Because what he does are unpredictable(no not the kind as ass pull or powering up). His character is also entertaining and draws in our attention compare to Johnathan. And what makes Joseph stand out when he fights? He actually runs away from a fight. TL;DR? Basically, Jojo Bizarre Adventure may not appeal to everyone, but it's very good and can stand on its own. And by "No" means is "generic." If there is a trope Jojo Bizarre Adventure specializes, it will be a "Fridge Logic." I am sure there are better response than mine, but that is I can think for now. |
TookMe6YearsFeb 27, 2013 9:40 PM
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| Continue Now here are some flaws in Jojo and why people may call it "generic." First, the length. Like many popular "Shounen" series, Jojo is a very long one. With 25 years under it's belt, it can scare some reader. Jojo Bizarre Adventure has over 100 volumes, and that can be a turn off. Second, characters are flat. Yes, some character even the protagonist themselves are flat. Johnathan is one for example. Although Jojo's Bizarre Advenure isn't really a deep stories, its flat character may cause readers and viewer to not liking the series. Third the death scenes. If you watch the 2012 adaptation, you can tell some character are going to die. Will A Zeppeli for example death is so spot on you can't miss it. The heavy spoiler or hint of death can drive the audience away as it can be annoying. Fourth, is a special mention to the Narrator, Speedwagon and of course Stroheim. Simply speaking, nobodies like to point the obvious. Although it can add flavor to the series. Even though these flaws hits Jojo Bizarre Adventure, it can be overlook, if you shut down your mind. And to me personally, it's not that big of a deal. And mindless fun doesn't always equate to quality of a series. As long you enjoy the show, it's done its job(not always the case as we all enjoy an anime for a different reason.) That is all I can think of for now. |
TookMe6YearsFeb 27, 2013 9:30 PM
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| ^ Interestingly though, "flaws" like Narrator and sensational Death Scenes are the "strengths" some fans like to mention. :-) |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| @symbv Yes. The death scenes and narration can be both good and bad. For me, I think it add flavors to the series. Some people may not like the heavy hint all in the face, but david Production handle the death scene well in my opinion. @HYbridbloodszak I am glad you enjoy this thread. *Gives out drinks* |
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| @kira Nen is nothing like Hamon, if anything it sorta resembles Ki from Dragon Ball except Togashi made a extremely approved version of it. I don't remember Dio being a pedophile? Getting turned on by stronger foes? Jajenken resembling Boy II men I don't know yet since I'm on that part yet but it reminds me of DB because of the stance and how paper looks like it shoots out a ki blast but instead an Emission nen If anyones Hatsu resembles a stand is Neteros Hatsu who sort of reminds me of Star Platinum. |
RX-782Feb 28, 2013 12:17 AM
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TallonKarrde23 said: Stands are far from something relevant enough to make the franchise unique. The stands are a gimmick - just like ninjutsu in Naruto (I assume they do that in it at least), bankai in bleach, espers in Index, and every other x in every other y. It's a changeable variable that doesn't change the uniquity of the series. Stupid, I can say that characters are not relevant enough, because there are characters in every story... Those are battle anime or manga, so obviously there is going to be a power system, saying that you can totally dismiss it when you judge a this kind of manga is a bit ignorant as it is one of the main aspect of the genre and one that differentiates this genre from other one. So, it's definitely an important element when you judge the uniquity of this serie. It is especially the case for Jojo, since the Stands play a greater role in the storytelling than the ninjutsu in Naruto for example. The name of chapters are often the name of the characters or the Stands they are facing. You're only judging the originality of a serie through its character and the overall plot, when they are others elements to manga than that. 90% of the contents of Jojo is fight, which is why dismissing them like you do is a bit stupid. A well thought out fight can be more difficult to write than a character. Jojo excels in the way it creates and use original powers to create some situations you're just not used to see in your regular shonen. Stands are not unique because the are written like every single other special ability in anything ever. The concept of a stand was pretty cool - but where did it lead to? Just the same shounen battles you'll find in any other series of power vs power or special ability vs special ability. I have to question your definition of the term:"unique". Because it seems very restrictive. A Special Ability can't be unique because they are used in other serie. LOL, it’s like saying that a joke can’t be unique because they are jokes in other serie. What makes Stands stand out (lol) is the originality and diversity of the special ability it gives to its user. It’s much more complex than just: “The character is able to produce fire” which is what most shonen actually do. And the tactics employed are much clever than just “my water can extinguish your flame.” Which once again is something a lot of shonen are notorious for. And saying "clever fights" is kind of an empty piece of praise. What was clever? It's pretty typical - having some strategy involved doesn't make it special, it makes it what you should expect from a series focused on fighting. Yeah, but when it does it well, you have to praise the serie for it. And Jojo does that well. Aside that the fights are actually pretty poor and extended way too long when the way to end them is already available much sooner. Instead, we get typical battle focused shounen - lets make this a billion pages long fight when the actual important events in it take about 30 seconds to cover. It's not just typical, it's extremely generic in how the battles are written, let alone the rest of it. You’re not reading those fights seriously enough. None of those fights that extended for several chapters could end in only 30 seconds, each strategy used by a character leads to a reaction by an opponent, who then change his tactic to adapt. The way to end the fights is more than often not available because the tactics used at the beginning and the one used at the end are not the same most of the time. Fights are long because the opponents are constantly adapting their strategy to their opponents. As for the style, what's unique about it? The only truly unique aspect in comparison to other CURRENT shounen is the art style still looks dated - aside that the writing is literally the exact same as anything else of the same genres and demographics. The characters are hilariously cookie cutter (dio for example is a typical evil villain big mean guy who kills doggies and never ever dies because he's just soooo evil and baaad) and have nothing aside the typical personalities and ways of being as every other shounen, and the writing is your typical save the world because an evil big bad is being mean stuff. The art style is not just dated. Did you not notice the american influence in the art, the pop art reference in the character's clothes and figure trait, and the freaking pose. How can you say that it's not unique. Redirect me to a manga with the same art style please? Araki has been praised in America and Europe for the originality of his art style. This is definitely one of the least valid point in your rant. This is the problem with jojo fans - they treat the series like it's some amazingly unique special series. It's not. It's a very typical generic battle shounen/battle seinen with nothing remotely original about it and average writing. It's not BAD, but it's far from something special in any area of it's contents aside maybe the poses they strike from time to time. Feel free to love it, but don't act like it's something it's not. Where did you get that I am a fan of Jojo exactly? I was merely saying that saying this had nothing unique like you did in your previous post was actually not true. You’re judging the writings of Jojo only through the character complexity and the Overall plot, which is definitely not the right thing to do, because the serie doesn’t even try to expand on those aspects. If a serie can only be interesting through those points, then good for you, but don’t try to impose youre limited view on others please. |
SetsukoHaraFeb 28, 2013 4:42 AM
| For me, HxH and Jojo are best shounens airing since FMA. What i find in Jojo very unique and mostly entertaining is: - The over the top intense action, reactions, dubbing, dialog, craziness, badassary, wtf feeling and awesomeness. - Imagination and flexibility in the way hamon/ripple is applied. - The fast progression and brevity. This puts Jojo in a different basket from other animes like Naruto, Bleach and DBz. While there, some of the battles and training arcs takes ~5-10 eps to fisnish here they don't take more than 1 or 2 epis and are overall more satisfying. - I think that "the poor writing or the generic" some of you wrote is deliberate for the sake of unpredictability and for comedic purpose. Jojo never promised to tell a complex story it’s just written as it is while adding some "extras" (diverse, identifiable and first sight likable characters, the references to music, people and places, ridiculous poses, etc. As a shounen its focus is different, its good the way it is, or maybe the same as saying it wouldn't be good if it tried to be complex the way you wanted. - The uncertainty that the hero will die or not, win or loose. - The comedic stuff are everywhere and does not feel forced, even when everything the show does is in a ridiculously dumb, stupid, silly, shameful, bizarre, wrong and nonsensical way but at the same time its believable, they work perfectly in its own world and thus they come and feel natural. - Best OP, best ED, and great, huge and diverse soundtrack. Period - The art and use of colors that melts on every character personalities, reactions and different situations. - A lot funnier when you watch with your friends or family. It doesn't have to be the best, just watch and enjoy. /bye |
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| I wholeheartedly agree with you, OP. Ever since I read Jojo Parts 2-5, I can't look at other shounen fighting manga/anime the same way anymore. A lot of them don't hold a candle to Jojo, specifically in terms of how the fights are written and executed, and how imaginative and fun they can be. There are exceptions, of course (such as the aforementioned HxH), but otherwise, Jojo raised the bar for me to a point that many shounen series cannot reach. |
| I wouldn't go as far as calling Jojo "generic". I just said that is 90% fights, and it doesn't have a deep story. The series is basically a sucession of entertaining fights, where the plot is just a thin thread that connects the fights. And it works because Araki is very imaginative and since part 4 his drawings are amazing. But as an story it definitely isn't something a mangaka should aspire. |
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