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| Magically induced vampire not dead apostle caused by true ancestor. Wormpire may be more appropriate. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: Zelretch, not Zouken....Magically induced vampire not dead apostle caused by true ancestor. Wormpire may be more appropriate. |
HentaiPriest said: black1blade said: Zelretch, not Zouken....Magically induced vampire not dead apostle caused by true ancestor. Wormpire may be more appropriate. Zelretch was not involved in Grail creation. Just in Tohsaka family foundations. |
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CookingPriest said: He was there supervising the formation.So yeah he helped.HentaiPriest said: Zelretch, not Zouken.... Zelretch was not involved in Grail creation. Just in Tohsaka family foundations. |
HentaiPriest said: CookingPriest said: He was there supervising the formation.So yeah he helped.Zelretch was not involved in Grail creation. Just in Tohsaka family foundations. He helped or he brought popcorn and a lawn chair and watched? |
fst said: HentaiPriest said: He was there supervising the formation.So yeah he helped. He helped or he brought popcorn and a lawn chair and watched? For me supervising means he did something. |
| Huh. Never seen zombies be confused for vampires, but eh. That Natalia girl was SUCH A TRAP. Goddammit, her initial appearance had me as "hot damn, boy" And then they showed the boobs. Goddammit. |
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k0k0 said: Huh. Never seen zombies be confused for vampires, but eh. That Natalia girl was SUCH A TRAP. Goddammit, her initial appearance had me as "hot damn, boy" And then they showed the boobs. Goddammit. It's a tie in to Tsukihime (another work in same universe of Fate/Stay Night + Fate/Zero) They start as 'ghouls' and eventually may become a Dead Apostle(vampire). It's hard to explain if you haven't read it so yeah.. leave it at that. |
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k0k0 said: Huh. Never seen zombies be confused for vampires, but eh. That Natalia girl was SUCH A TRAP. Goddammit, her initial appearance had me as "hot damn, boy" And then they showed the boobs. Goddammit. They are not zombies they are vampire ghouls. That's how humans after being infected progress into dead apostles(most of times they don't and stay ghouls tho). Basically it starts as a mindless ghoul/zombie, after consuming certain amount of blood, brain functions start to get restored and then 1 out of thousands has the potential to become a full fledged vampire. Vampires or Dead Apostles are essentially the "third faction" and one of the main reasons Church even exists. The most powerful elite of the dead apostles are known as 22 Dead Apostle Ancestors(essentially 22 strongest beings with vampire qualities - requirements being an immense vampire strength and an unique reality marble). Dead Apostles stay immortal as long as they consume human flesh and blood, so it makes sense on why rogue magi would be interested in that. Apart from that the Association does not deal or interact with them as much as the Church's Burial Agency to whom they are natural enemies. |
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nocorras said: They start as 'ghouls' and eventually may become a Dead Apostle(vampire). It's hard to explain if you haven't read it so yeah.. leave it at that. That made sense. Thanks. CookingPriest said: They are not zombies they are vampire ghouls. That's how humans after being infected progress into dead apostles(most of times they don't and stay ghouls tho). Basically it starts as a mindless ghoul/zombie, after consuming certain amount of blood, brain functions start to get restored and then 1 out of thousands has the potential to become a full fledged vampire. Vampires or Dead Apostles are essentially the "third faction" and one of the main reasons Church even exists. The most powerful elite of the dead apostles are known as 22 Dead Apostle Ancestors(essentially 22 strongest beings with vampire qualities - requirements being an immense vampire strength and an unique reality marble). Dead Apostles stay immortal as long as they consume human flesh and blood, so it makes sense on why rogue magi would be interested in that. Apart from that the Association does not deal or interact with them as much as the Church's Burial Agency to whom they are natural enemies. Woah, thanks for the entire background story, CookingPriest. I can now link Kiritsugu's father's experimentation to the Dead Apostles. Also, can you please tell me which Fate/ series expands on these 22 Dead Apostle Ancestors? |
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k0k0 said: Also, can you please tell me which Fate/ series expands on these 22 Dead Apostle Ancestors? None of them, though one is very vaguely relevant in F/SN Heaven's Feel. Though to actually get anything about the DAA (and I think it's 27, not 22, not sure though) the series to go to is Tsukihime. The anime is crap tier though, the best choice is to read the VN but it's pretty antiquated and not everyone reads VN's, so failing that read the manga. |
Insertanamehere said: k0k0 said: Also, can you please tell me which Fate/ series expands on these 22 Dead Apostle Ancestors? None of them, though one is very vaguely relevant in F/SN Heaven's Feel. Though to actually get anything about the DAA (and I think it's 27, not 22, not sure though) the series to go to is Tsukihime. The anime is crap tier though, the best choice is to read the VN but it's pretty antiquated and not everyone reads VN's, so failing that read the manga. ^This Kara no Kyoukai expands quite a bit on concepts of mystic eyes, as well as the main goals of Magi Association(the whole root thing). Tsukihime expands upon the Church's Burial Agency(an agency to combat vampires and demons), True Ancestors(natural born vampires) and dead apostles(humans made into vampires). Fate is essentially Emiya Shirou's story, with focus on concepts of using magic as well as what servants are. Also expands upon what Counter Force is. Tsukihime Manga covers quite a good chunk of the story(around 2/7ths of it) and is decently faithful. You won't see ALL the 27 Apostle Ancestors(mainly because the positions change as some die and new are introduced) but it does introduce some of them(manga has two or three I think). FSN/Zero story actually contains one Dead Apostle Ancestor in the story, that being the Wizard Marshall Zelretch, the head of Magic Association. The current list of 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors and the works they appear in is as follows: [/spoiler] |
AhenshihaelMar 10, 2015 6:38 AM
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Insertanamehere said: None of them, though one is very vaguely relevant in F/SN Heaven's Feel. Though to actually get anything about the DAA (and I think it's 27, not 22, not sure though) the series to go to is Tsukihime. The anime is crap tier though, the best choice is to read the VN but it's pretty antiquated and not everyone reads VN's, so failing that read the manga. CookingPriest said: Kara no Kyoukai expands quite a bit on concepts of mystic eyes, as well as the main goals of Magi Association(the whole root thing). Tsukihime expands upon the Church's Burial Agency(an agency to combat vampires and demons), True Ancestors(natural born vampires) and dead apostles(humans made into vampires) . Fate is essentially Emiya Shirou's story, with focus on concepts of using magic as well as what servants are. Tsukihime Manga covers quite a good chunk of the story(around 2/7ths of it) and is decently faithful. VNs never really worked for me. After Fate/Zero I've been told to just go for UBW (TV), so that's what I'm going to do. And I'd no idea that the Kara no Kyoukai movies interlaced with the Fate/ series--I'd always planned to watch them. Gracias, both of you. |
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| In that case the Tsukihime manga is what I'd recommend. Kara no Kyoukai is also connected to FSN and Tsukihime, as he said, though KNK has nothing on the Dead Apostles, if that's what you're looking for. |
CookingPriest said: The current list of 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors and the works they appear in is as follows: Stuff Where did you get some of those pictures? I was under the impression a lot of them didn't have designs; are those just fan impressions or based of any official description? |
| Shirley no... nonono... you just wanted to help... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO So much emotional attachment for me towards Shirley in one episode qq |
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Insertanamehere said: CookingPriest said: The current list of 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors and the works they appear in is as follows: Stuff Where did you get some of those pictures? I was under the impression a lot of them didn't have designs; are those just fan impressions or based of any official description? No, those are official designs(the only one who is notshown officially is van fem but he is described in great detail so that rendition is accurate) |
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CookingPriest said: Insertanamehere said: Where did you get some of those pictures? I was under the impression a lot of them didn't have designs; are those just fan impressions or based of any official description? No, those are official designs(the only one who is notshown officially is van fem but he is described in great detail so that rendition is accurate) Altrouge? |
| That was intense! Sad backstory. Poor Shirley, I really liked her... Also Natalia is awesome! |
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| Once in a while I'm glad to read the comments here, I watched the Tsukihime anime so that stuff is actually connected with this episode. That's actually pretty cool ^^ Though I'm not sure how I feel about Kiritsugu's father, did he intend to eventually use Shirley for his experiment or was this just an accident? |
Gator said: It was an accident. A fortunate accident for him actually, because you probably noticed how quickly the Association's Enforcers arrived. See my other response here:Once in a while I'm glad to read the comments here, I watched the Tsukihime anime so that stuff is actually connected with this episode. That's actually pretty cool ^^ Though I'm not sure how I feel about Kiritsugu's father, did he intend to eventually use Shirley for his experiment or was this just an accident? CapsuleCore said: Mich666 said: The thing is I don't believe he was in situation when he could think so logically to think so logically about the future and he should realize it was an accident. It's not like his father wanted that to happen. For me, this was like unwarranted 180 degree flip, it would meant he is actually worse than Kotomine who had doubts for a long time. What monster was he to actually kill his father? This was really too extreme. It's not like his father didn't care for him. As matter of that, his decision felt very unrealistic. I mean, why couldn't they just go with him bringing his father to Natalia while SHE would do the actual killing. Or catch him for the Sealing? The impact would be the same (if not better). Whole scene felt like it was made just for the sole purpose of his first kill. This scene actually shows that something is seriously wrong with Kiritsugu that he can separate what his heart feels from what his rational head thinks. Kiritsugu wanted to talk with his father first, to see whether Norikata would try becoming immortal again and Kiritsugu then decided to kill his father because such a disaster could have happened again. However, Kiritsugu wanted to be a champion of justice who saves everyone, yet he didn't want to make the same mistake again because he refused to kill someone he loves, which led to the death of many more people, so he personally attacked his father with the knife he was supposed to use to kill Shirley. Mich666 said: Yes, and Kotomine was hunting Dead Apostles with Bazett before, I know, and I don't question their existence. But even that, it was just something existing far, far away from actual story and it was only mentioned there. In context of Fate it's like blending two themes together and maybe it's just me, but whole this "zombie apocalypse" felt somehow out of place (I don't even want to start about how those agents got there so quickly just in time when they were located on remote isolated island in Phillipines). Wouldn't it be a lot better to have only Shirley on the run, not whole city and to have one dedicated hunter, not dozen? The Enforcers actually came so quickly because they already found Norikata. Norikata got his Sealing Designation twenty years before his death. Shirley drinking the potion was a lucky coincidence, as it served as a distraction. Also, Dead Apostles are inevitably linked to immortality and that is what Norikata wanted for his time research to reach Akasha. If he cannot achieve true immortality, which means no downsides like blood to sustain oneself and the impulse to drink blood, it's a failure and will lead to becoming a "regular" Dead Apostle. The Dead Apostles' Curse of Restoration is time based. The Emiya family researched time magecraft. Akasha research -> Time magecraft -> Immortality -> Dead Apostle. Dead Apostles are really making lots of sense here. Mich666 said: I know and that's why I was saying few episodes back how cool it would be if they actually did flashback episode with Irisviel and Kiritsugu instead of mere Drama CD. Because it was this Drama that made me finally understand who Kiritsugu really was and what relationship he had with her. This unaired bonus made me actually understand him more than anything that was told in anime. Contrary to that, this episode only served as his background (to appease novel readers) but it actually added nothing to actual story. His past could have been revealed in much more efficient way during short flashback if Tohsaka had actually got some documents detailing his past. Or he could have some conversation with Iris. I would say the flashback does serve its purpose as several viewers seemed to understand Kiritsugu better, though I find it to be misplaced. It would have fit better, if they had shown the flashback right after Saber's not-conversation with Kiritsugu, when she concluded that he wanted to become a champion of justice in the past. Well, what I think should be mentioned is that the anime doesn't bother showing the nicer and more human sides of Tokiomi and Norikata. Kiritsugu's father could have fled already, but he didn't want to leave until his son came back. He and Kiritsugu loved each other. |
CapsuleCore said: Gator said: It was an accident. A fortunate accident for him actually, because you probably noticed how quickly the Association's Enforcers arrived. See my other response here:Once in a while I'm glad to read the comments here, I watched the Tsukihime anime so that stuff is actually connected with this episode. That's actually pretty cool ^^ Though I'm not sure how I feel about Kiritsugu's father, did he intend to eventually use Shirley for his experiment or was this just an accident? Well, what I think should be mentioned is that the anime doesn't bother showing the nicer and more human sides of Tokiomi and Norikata. Kiritsugu's father could have fled already, but he didn't want to leave until his son came back. He and Kiritsugu loved each other. Thanks for the clarification, I thought as much but I wasn't too sure. That makes me dislike Kiritsugu even more, his father didn't mean for this to happen and was just researching. He hadn't done anything wrong so far :( |
Gator said: CapsuleCore said: It was an accident. A fortunate accident for him actually, because you probably noticed how quickly the Association's Enforcers arrived. See my other response here: Well, what I think should be mentioned is that the anime doesn't bother showing the nicer and more human sides of Tokiomi and Norikata. Kiritsugu's father could have fled already, but he didn't want to leave until his son came back. He and Kiritsugu loved each other. Thanks for the clarification, I thought as much but I wasn't too sure. That makes me dislike Kiritsugu even more, his father didn't mean for this to happen and was just researching. He hadn't done anything wrong so far :( Well, there would have come the time where Norikata would have tested it eventually, and it's very unlikely that it would have succeeded the first time, so Norikata would have definitely caused more death. Kiritsugu could have stopped the catastrophe on the island, if he had killed Shirley, but he hesitated, so he swore to not do this again. Even if he loved his father, he decided that killing his father would eventually save more people. It's very messed up and twisted, but it was not wrong to stop his father. The result is the same, whether an Enforcer, like Natalya, would have gotten Norikata, then incarcerated and killed him eventually, or whether Kiritsugu killed him. Only the burden of the sin is on Kiritsugu. And he willingly committed that evil, because that is how he thinks he must protect and achieve his ideal. By ironically going against it. |
| He finds it so easy to kill. I don't know how his upbringing could cause him to act in such a way. |
| Zaaaaaaaaaaambies! |
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| Kiritsugu's backstory really made me speechless. Impressive episode, though it was weird I guess, the vampires zombies and stuff. lol rip shirley girl and kiritsugu's father. |
| Kiritsugu's amazing and tragic backstory Part 1: Infected childhood. I think that's a good name. If we didn't have enough of a reason to cheer for Kiritsugu, then here comes the backstory... Part 1. Shirley was honestly one of the sweetest characters I've seen in a while, sorta like Celica from Blazblue, only without the infamy, however both are like gentle lambs in a wolf-like world. For Shirly, it doesn't work out well. Albeit, seeing her effectively friend zone Kiritsugu by saying he was like a brother to her was chuckle worthy. However, the BIg kicker comes when the island that Kiritsugu was living on went The Walking Dead on us. Not to mention he song that played at the end, temporarily replacing the boring ending music, was just... many shades of beautiful. Manten by Kalafina was a great song, and I recommend you give it a listen. Given the nature of both this and next episode, this song really completes them. Also, I guess Shirley's dead now? Is she missing? Eh, Let's just call her M.I.A. |
CodeBlazeFateApr 23, 2016 3:39 AM
| Being wrong is just an occupational hazard. Follow me on twitter. I have an anitube channel so feel free to check it out and subscribe if you like what you see. |
| [Re-watch | BD version] I thought I was prepared but Kiritsugu's past is still painful. His life all burned to the ground, her first love not only dead but she had to go through all that... become a dead apostle. Then, killing his own father... the look in his eyes, he did not expect his very own son to kill him. Not that Kiritsugu wanted, or... did all that really made it easier? To pull the trigger? "That's not a reason for a child to kill his father" A part of Kiritsugu died with him that day... Shirley's wish may live within him. T_T Poor Kiritsugu. Again, the song Manten by Kalafina really suits the mood for the ending, beautiful. |
| Noo, shirley. That's how Kiritsugu transformed into some one so badass. What a tragedy, damn. |
| Holy ... This was an amazing episode. |
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| Backstory. No fight scenes. FILLER!!!! Terrible truck textures, though. |
| Well, this wasn't a really good episode, especially not a really good backstory. Just tossing in some random love interest, then killing her out to make an emotional shock. And using a cold, "evil" father character, just to show Kiritsugu's source of determination to kill evil mages. But why? It was clearly the girl's fault that everyone died, not directly because his father made dangerous experiments. Killing him just because a random terrorist-woman said he is evil? Kiritsugu must have reeeally hated him to begin with, because this reason stands on weak grounds. So this episode gave a weak and forced explanation why Kiritsugu became who he is. I expected a better writing for this part. |
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Ennetsu said: what? it's the girls fault that kerry's father was making monsters in a bid for immortality?Well, this wasn't a really good episode, especially not a really good backstory. Just tossing in some random love interest, then killing her out to make an emotional shock. And using a cold, "evil" father character, just to show Kiritsugu's source of determination to kill evil mages. But why? It was clearly the girl's fault that everyone died, not directly because his father made dangerous experiments. Killing him just because a random terrorist-woman said he is evil? Kiritsugu must have reeeally hated him to begin with, because this reason stands on weak grounds. So this episode gave a weak and forced explanation why Kiritsugu became who he is. I expected a better writing for this part. |
Maloghurst said: what? it's the girls fault that kerry's father was making monsters in a bid for immortality? No, but if she wouldn't make that stupid mistake probably nothing would have happened. The biggest fault of Kiritsugu's father is that he didn't try to stop the vampires/ghouls after the outbreak. Even if he did unethic experiments (on plants!!), killing him for this by his own son isn't really convincing. |
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Ennetsu said: if it wasnt her it would have ended up being other people. Maloghurst said: what? it's the girls fault that kerry's father was making monsters in a bid for immortality? No, but if she wouldn't make that stupid mistake probably nothing would have happened. The biggest fault of Kiritsugu's father is that he didn't try to stop the vampires/ghouls after the outbreak. Even if he did unethic experiments (on plants!!), killing him for this by his own son isn't really convincing. -i'll agree -pretty sure you can't do dead apostle experimentation on things like plants. or at least not reliable experimentation. kerry had deduced that his father was a monster and needed to die or many others would die for his father's own greed. i'd say being the source of an outbreak like that more than warrants his son killing him. now it's been a while since i've gone through F/Z. so there probably is some slip up in there because the urobochi had to get kerry from point A to point B to point C. |
Maloghurst said: if it wasnt her it would have ended up being other people. -i'll agree -pretty sure you can't do dead apostle experimentation on things like plants. or at least not reliable experimentation. kerry had deduced that his father was a monster and needed to die or many others would die for his father's own greed. i'd say being the source of an outbreak like that more than warrants his son killing him. now it's been a while since i've gone through F/Z. so there probably is some slip up in there because the urobochi had to get kerry from point A to point B to point C. Well, I wouldn't say that his change in personality was not more or less understandable after some more episodes, but compared to other parts of F/Z, I feel like the main character's backstory got a little too cliché. Like "normal kid + tragedies = "cool" and tragic character". |
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Ennetsu said: well, kiritsugu's character Maloghurst said: if it wasnt her it would have ended up being other people. -i'll agree -pretty sure you can't do dead apostle experimentation on things like plants. or at least not reliable experimentation. kerry had deduced that his father was a monster and needed to die or many others would die for his father's own greed. i'd say being the source of an outbreak like that more than warrants his son killing him. now it's been a while since i've gone through F/Z. so there probably is some slip up in there because the urobochi had to get kerry from point A to point B to point C. Well, I wouldn't say that his change in personality was not more or less understandable after some more episodes, but compared to other parts of F/Z, I feel like the main character's backstory got a little too cliché. Like "normal kid + tragedies = "cool" and tragic character". i do wanna say it feels like many people like his character for some of the wrong reasons though. |
| I just happened to be reading the Tsukihime manga, and lo and behold, I get to see vampire ghouls animated! Fun times. Looks like Kerry had a cold-blooded side to him right from the beginning. VN/HF spoiler: |
| Well he had balls to just kill his dad, I"m sure if he knew it was contagious he would have killed shirly. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
Rasco said: Nope, he wouldn't have killed her. The only reason he killed his father was because he realized he fucked up (by not killing Shirley), and wanted to prevent the same shit from happening again.Well he had balls to just kill his dad, I"m sure if he knew it was contagious he would have killed shirly. |
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| Wow amazing episode! I thought it was going to be a beach episode filler, but it turned out much more than that. Wonder what happened to Shirley? Kinda stupid how he Kiritsugu killed his father just like that. Guess he probably knows he has been doing these things for quite some time no. Can't wait for the next episode! |
| Well, that's quite dark past Kiritsugu had. But still, it doesn't justify the way he does things in the present. |
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| Best episode so far |
| Woah, I gotta say...... best episode this season! :o And to hear Miyu-san's voice... plus plus! *^* About Shirley though... Truly sick and sad... :( |
MagePhairaMay 24, 2017 8:54 AM
  “I despise common sense. I’ve seen the world from every possible angle. This cruel, ridiculous, beautiful world.” - Lacie Baskerville ||❤|| |
| Wow. In terms of art quality this episode looked brilliant. If everything from Ufo looked like this episode, I wouldn't have any reason to hate them. Anyway, poor Shirley :( |
| Dub = fake crap. Always. |
| Gotta love an episode with zombie-vampires and hey, now I know why some fans call Kiritsugu Kerry. Poor Shirley though D: |
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