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How would you rate this anime?
Nov 11, 2011 8:38 AM
#1

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Spotlight Anime: Usagi Drop



MAL Anime Information Page: Usagi Drop


MAL Score – 8.74 (by 15900 users)
Ranked - #41
Popularity - #537

For the next week I would like to have a discussion about the anime that focuses on the key elements that we here on MAL use to critically rate an anime: Animation, Sound, Characters, Story, and Enjoyment.

I would like everyone to approach this thread as if you were going to write a review and structure your initial post like this:


Animation - insert rating
Sound - insert rating
Characters - insert rating
Story - insert rating
Enjoyment - insert rating

Animation - discuss any pros and cons of the animation styling used in the series, try to include some specifics.

Sound - describe any of the things you liked or didn't care for in regards to the music and sound effects used in the series

etc...



If you are having trouble writing up a review or coming up with specific pros and cons, please don't worry. Just do the best you can with it and if you can only write two or three sentences about any of the 5 elements then that's OK. Not everyone here is currently at a level which will allow them to articulate their thoughts and opinions.

After your initial post is made you can feel free to civilly discuss issues of contention. I am sure there will be many opinions expressed here that some of us will disagree upon and criticise and it is for that reason that this entire club exists. So I hope everyone has fun and I am really looking forward to watching this discussion unfold.


RESULTS OF THE YOU DECIDE POLL

Usagi Drop was PERMANENTLY inducted into the club Anime list:
46 Yes - 79.3%
12 No - 18.1%

24 Don't know this manga - 28.2% of the total number polled
3 Abstained - 3.5% of the total number polled
santetjanNov 25, 2011 8:26 AM
Current FAL Ranking + Previous best::
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Nov 11, 2011 2:28 PM
#2

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A lot of people have been nominating this series continuously since it was finished and I've been questioned why I don't think Usagi Drop is club material.

I direct you guys to this review

The idea of this show is basically the same as any other story about an adult taking on with a child with or without little relations and they slowly grow on each other. Have you guys seen Seirei no Moribito? Because I think it's essentially the same and they've done it better because it had a plot I could follow instead of just watching cute children on paper growing.

Hence, I am going to vote "no" on Usagi Drop.
ConfuciusNov 11, 2011 2:56 PM
Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
Nov 11, 2011 2:52 PM
#3

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Usagi Drop is basically Aishiteruze Baby with better production values, less developed cast, and a weaker closure (both anime series have no endings).
It sure is realistic, memorable, gives the same fuzzy feeling present in MOE titles, and doesn't bore the average casual viewer who is incapable of watching 10 episodes straight of Mushishi, Aria, or any other siimilar episodic anime without sleeping.
The thing is that there is no central plot, a couple of sub-plots, or simply a direction that culminates in a satisfying finish; the story is left incomplete.
(Technically, there was a plot but, by the second half, it became episodic.)

IIRC, there won't be any sequels because of the path the manga took after the time skip. So, this is it.

Story: 5/10 (sidetracked in the second half, ending?closure?, idealized)
Character: 7/10 (catharsis? What happened to most of the introduced characters?)
Art: 9/10 (Undeniably fitting but I still prefer Miyazaki's animation)
Sound: 9/10 (soundtrack is not memorable enough to get a perfect score, great voice acting)
Value: 8/10 (large fanbase, idealized but the most realistic parenting anime)
Enjoyment: 7/10 (enjoyable but unresolved)
Overall: 7.5/10 (abstain)

Compilation of quotes in this thread
_laz_Nov 17, 2011 6:23 PM
The threat is stronger than the execution.
Nov 12, 2011 3:52 AM
#4

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I think the review which Confucius linked to raises some very good points.

The production values are wonderful and it's often heartwarming but some aspects are too idealized for me to really consider it realistic.* Rin, in particular, feels like a character who was built from the ground up to be as likable as possible. It didn't help that many of the scenes in which she interacts with other children only serve to show how much smarter and more mature she is.

Unlike other criticasters, however, I wasn't bothered with the lack of a central plot or overarching conlfict. That is actually an aspect of the show I do consider realistic.

Story: 6/10
Character: 7/10
Art: 9/10
Sound: 9/10
Value: 7/10
Enjoyment: 7/10 (heartwarming, but too idealized and at times cloying)
Overall: 7/10 (will probably vote 'no')

* = I've noticed that even some fans of the show admit that Usagi Drop's portrayal of circumstances is idealized. Good examples of this are Archaeon's review on this site and the review on nihonreview.com
Uriel1988Nov 13, 2011 3:03 AM
Nov 12, 2011 3:52 PM
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Okay, here's my two pence.

While Usagi Drop is idealised in many ways, it's the subject matter itself that makes it important.

One could argue that it's like Aishiteruze Baby, but in actuality the two are as different as chalk and cheese as Kippei was put in the role of perpetual babysitter rather than guardian, and there was always the understanding that Yuzuyu's mother would come back for her. In addition to that, the parenting aspect in Seirei no Moribito wasn't the central theme of the story, and while it did portray it very well, Balsa has a much easier time since Chagum is much older than Rin.

Enough rambling, on to the point. The majority of people in this world will become a parent at some point in their lives, and once you are one, you cease to be anything else. Now this is important because as far as I can tell (and feel free to prove me wrong by suggesting titles that aren't Aishiteruze Baby and Seirei no Moribito), Usagi Drop is the only anime about parenting from the last ten years, and may be the only one from the last twenty or thirty years.

So here's a question. As critics and/or connoisseurs, should we be judging this anime simply on the basis of what it is? If so then it should be on our lists as a rare, viable example of parenting in anime, especially as everyone seems to agree that while the series is idealised, it's also very realistic.

Personally I don't mind the lack of a conclusion. After all, your story only ends when you die, so why should a realistic anime be any different?

As for the whole "incest" thing ...



It's a definite yes from me, and not simply because I enjoyed the anime. If we disregard every show simply because we didn't like the lack of a conclusion or whatever else, then we can't call ourselves critics or connoisseurs. We should be looking at every aspect of a story, including its rarity in a medium swamped by fanservice, high schools, harems, and other stuff that will appeal to adolescent minds.
ArchaeonNov 12, 2011 4:01 PM
What a day! What a lovely Day!
Nov 12, 2011 5:09 PM
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Archaeon said:
In addition to that, the parenting aspect in Seirei no Moribito wasn't the central theme of the story, and while it did portray it very well


If not better I would say. You are correct on Balsa having it easy because Chagum himself was already well disciplined even though he had difficulty adapting to modern society. Plus


Archaeon said:
Now this is important because as far as I can tell (and feel free to prove me wrong by suggesting titles that aren't Aishiteruze Baby and Seirei no Moribito), Usagi Drop is the only anime about parenting from the last ten years, and may be the only one from the last twenty or thirty years.


Does Michiko to Hatchin count...? But more seriously, My Girl (manga) would be one and I think they handled some things better than Usagi Drop

Archaeon said:
So here's a question. As critics and/or connoisseurs, should we be judging this anime simply on the basis of what it is?


No, but that doesn't mean we induct anything that hasn't been done before.
Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
Nov 12, 2011 5:49 PM
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Bravo Archaeon! I suppose that some might argue that 'moe' itself is an example of a genre that panders to the parental desires of unmarried otaku, but in no way is moe ever beneficial or instructional in regards to parenting. Usagi Drop is heartfelt without forcing the drama. I do see how some could see the series as being too overly idealistic in regards to Rin's personality, but it's also very true to life that children who are abandoned have to grow up faster. The void of loving parents can be reflected behaviorally in children becoming overly obedient in an attempt to gain acceptance and love. Some times children seem to internalize the abandonment as it being something wrong with themselves. The flip side of this behavioral pattern is represented in Kouki's character who acts out constantly in an attempt to gain attention. The fact that this show has both bahaviors represented just adds to the argument for its induction. Like Archaeon I can't also help but enjoy a series that isn't bogged down by cliche fan-service. Demographics here seems to be a big factor in the level of enjoyment I suppose.

My first impression of the art initially wasn't as favorable. It's style of pastels and minimal animation at first seemed a bit overused in slice of life series. But that was quickly dispelled when I began noticing that the art subtly in the face of such a story seemed yet another element of the story that's pointing my vote towards yes. If this anime was in fact created to stimulate otaku into having children, I think it was very successful but I suppose we couldn't know if this anime actually stimulated any hikikomori's out of their seclusion without extensive testing and surveys pertaining to the Japans population dynamics post Usagi Drop.

Even without the psychological implications, the minimal artistic style, subtle and gentle musical arrangement and the easy to like characters of this story make this a series very easy to like and vote yes for. It really is too bad if this story won't be continued, but as it stands it's still a great theoretical slice of someone's ideal life and how children play an important role in the equation of life. I was hit with another huge example of this with Mallicks newest movie The Tree of Life.
Orion1Nov 12, 2011 5:53 PM
Nov 13, 2011 3:21 AM
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Archaeon said:
So here's a question. As critics and/or connoisseurs, should we be judging this anime simply on the basis of what it is? If so then it should be on our lists as a rare, viable example of parenting in anime, especially as everyone seems to agree that while the series is idealised, it's also very realistic.

.....

It's a definite yes from me, and not simply because I enjoyed the anime. If we disregard every show simply because we didn't like the lack of a conclusion or whatever else, then we can't call ourselves critics or connoisseurs. We should be looking at every aspect of a story, including its rarity in a medium swamped by fanservice, high schools, harems, and other stuff that will appeal to adolescent minds.


You strongly emphasize that Usagi Drop is unique within the medium. Which is true. But does that mean that the series deserves a free pass on the way it makes parenting look like a walk in the park?

I would say not.

I also find it unfair that you bring up moe shows, harem shows and the like to make your point. Would it be fair to criticize To-Love-Ru for its unrealistic depiction of romantic relationships? I think not, seeing as the series never aspires to do so.

Usagi Drop, by contrast, aspires to be a fairly realistic portrayal of raising a child and yet it's so idealized in some aspects that it undermines itself. The best examples of this are Rin's aforementioned maturity and near-angelic demeanor, but the series also opts to conveniently leave out exploring how Daikichi would have extra financial concerns (raising a child isn't cheap, after all), among other things.

All in all, I think these are pretty considerable failings. And I think it's unfair to write it all off simply because the series doesn't pander to the typical otaku.
Nov 13, 2011 7:20 AM
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@ Uriel

You say it's overly idealised, but Orion raised a very good point (one that I didn't consider I might add).

Orion1 said:
it's also very true to life that children who are abandoned have to grow up faster. The void of loving parents can be reflected behaviorally in children becoming overly obedient in an attempt to gain acceptance and love. Some times children seem to internalize the abandonment as it being something wrong with themselves. The flip side of this behavioral pattern is represented in Kouki's character who acts out constantly in an attempt to gain attention. The fact that this show has both bahaviors represented just adds to the argument for its induction.


That's a pretty accurate description of both Rin and Kouki, and it also explains Rin's maturity and near angleic demeanour.

As for Daikichi's financial problems, they're not really considered because he doesn't lead a jet-set lifestyle in the first place, and while his new job doesn't pay as well as his old one, from the various shopping scenes it seems like he knows how to be thrifty.

You mentioned aspirations. Usagi Drop aspired to show the diffculties of being a single parent and child, something it did very well. Orion's take on it leads me to believe that the series is less idealised than anyone of us think.

To be honest, it may all come down to life experience. I'm kicking myself for not seeing Orion's point before now, mainly because my nephew behaves exactly the same as Kouki and they're about the same age. I also know that children do react in the way that Orion described after suffering a loss like Rin did, which explains why Daikichi had those flashbacks about how vacant she looked when he first met her. There's a part of her that's terrified of being "abandoned", and that's why she tries to be good.

Or has everyone forgotten about how she began to wet the bed when she first realised Daikichi was going to die someday (which is a pretty normal reaction for a 6 year old by the way)?

No, we shouldn't automatically induct everything that is unique, but if you take Usagi Drop for everything that it is, then yes, it should be on the list.

One other thing, and I'm not meaning to be rude here, but how many of you actually have kids of your own, or have raised them for a period of time (being a babysitter doesn't count by the way). I'm curious as to how big a factor this is when it comes to understanding and enjoying a show like Usagi Drop.
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Nov 13, 2011 11:09 AM

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I read the manga, but I Haven't watch the anime.

However, there was a scene in the anime that I actually watched and found to be wonderful.

It is a given fact that young children can't sing, and so when they sang in the episode, I was amazed at how off key/not beautiful it was. Now, if the anime is filled with little moments like these, then I'm watching it for sure. I thank the production team for this realistic representation. I also thank them to use actual children VA for the children, rather than a full grown female with high pitched voice.
WilioNov 13, 2011 11:13 AM
-Fixing-
Nov 13, 2011 11:40 AM

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First of all, one has to admit that Usagi Drop is an original concept with an original execution. It's not comparable to other anime because there's simply not another anime that has the intention of Usagi Drop. In this anime we want to characterize the issue of "parenting". At most what we have in other anime is "babysitting". Never before I've seen an anime that made clear that it wanted to talk about the problems of being a parent and the consequent joy of having such life. Because of this originality I had high expectations for this. They did not come out destroyed, but I felt like something was missing during the whole thing. Let's try to pinpoint it!

Let's start by the story. There is nothing simpler than this story: a guy discovers his grandfather has a child. As nobody wants to take care of the kid, he takes the little girl in and starts sharing a life with her. It works, it definetely works. The slice-of-life formula is perfect for this theme, because it focus on the daily problems of this newborn family. It does not have a conclusion, I would have (personallu) liked to see Rin-chan growing older and having a happy life after childhood, and that leaves a bittersweet ending after all. However, having it incomplete is not a bad thing, because it leaves space to our imagination (and to the rest of the manga, which - apparently - is also the worst part of it)

The characters are very human and believable. They are detailed to an extent that we identify with them (for example, Daikichi's bad mornings, I absolutely found that detail essential) The children are also very real, except for the star of the show: Rin. As adorable as a child can be, Rin is an impossibility of nature. She is mature, that's ok, she is kind, that's ok, she is nice, that's ok. But she is so much all of this, on a such great effort to make her likeable to everyone, that she does not pass for a child. Children throw fits, children are annoying, children are dirty, and Rin-chan is not any of this. I deal with children a lot and as much as they are nice and cute, they are also horrible little critters sometimes. Rin is always adorable! My mother says I was a wonderful child, that I behaved like a small lady (hoho), but even I threw fits sometimes. Like that time when I wanted my nails cut with the shape of the moon, whatever that is. This kind of characterization, illustrated by all the situations in which they participate, is a very serious flaw. All the other children, especially Reina-chan, are pretty much ok, but they apparently exist to emphasize how much Rin is special and wonderful. I bet that if she was a brat Daikichi would think twice about having her as "daughter". And he never thinks twice, never hesitates, and that's not his fault, that's Rin's characterization's fault.

The art is very beautiful and the character design is appropriate. The lack of pretty people is reassuring. I would have liked richer backgrounds, even with the watercolour design present through the series, but like this it's ok too.

The music is pretty and appropriate. The OP and ED are pleasant and I'll listen to them again.

Overall, a series I'd recommend because it's so unique. However, for this club, it holds too many flaws for me to consider it's nomination.
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori
Nov 13, 2011 1:17 PM

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@ Archaeon:

I want to start off by admitting that I tend to be sceptical of stories that present nigh-idyllic familial circumstances. 'Summer Wars' would be a good example of that. I understand that not every story about family has to go the Richard Yates route but I'm nonetheless quick to label any depiction of a happy family life as idealized.

You and Orion raise a very good point about Rin's behavior. But I still think Rin is a little too perfect a child to really be believable. I'll believe that she's very mature for her age, but when the anime goes out of its way to show that her drawings are nicer and that she scolds other kids for being immature I can't help but feel that the show is blatantly trying to steer my sympathy.

That said, ladyxzeus puts it much better than I did.

ladyxzeus said:
...Rin is an impossibility of nature. She is mature, that's ok, she is kind, that's ok, she is nice, that's ok. But she is so much all of this, on a such great effort to make her likeable to everyone, that she does not pass for a child. Children throw fits, children are annoying, children are dirty, and Rin-chan is not any of this. I deal with children a lot and as much as they are nice and cute, they are also horrible little critters sometimes. Rin is always adorable!

...

All the other children, especially Reina-chan, are pretty much ok, but they apparently exist to emphasize how much Rin is special and wonderful. I bet that if she was a brat Daikichi would think twice about having her as "daughter". And he never thinks twice, never hesitates, and that's not his fault, that's Rin's characterization's fault.


Well said.
Nov 13, 2011 2:41 PM

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Actually I think it's the other way around. To me it seemed as though Reina and all of the other kids existed to show how different, how abnormal Rin and Kouki are. Rin's "perfection" is the outward sign of her abandonment issues, and if they didn't already know about Rin's background, the majority of teachers I know would have alarm bells ringing that something wasn't right.

As ladyxzeus says, children can be horrible little critters, but that's what makes those who deal with them suspicious if a kid is too well behaved. Hell, when my nephew knew his parents were getting divorced he behaved a lot like Rin, but after the divorce he started acting more like Kouki. It's fairly common for kids to react in these ways, and that's why the distinction has to be made.

Unfortunately the majority of people don't think kids can act like Rin until they see it for themselves. There's always a reason for their behaviour, and it's rarely because their parents have taught them how to behave.
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Nov 13, 2011 3:38 PM

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Archaeon above said exactly what I wanted to say: the idea that Rin's so-called "perfect" behavior reduces the believability of the show is actually the opposite of the truth. Her shaky upbringing and sudden abandonment is what caused her to begin acting so mature; she simply acted as many other children in unpleasant situations like her's would.
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Nov 13, 2011 4:33 PM

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Archaeon said:
One other thing, and I'm not meaning to be rude here, but how many of you actually have kids of your own, or have raised them for a period of time


No, I haven't raised any children or have been involved with parenting in whichever fashion. In fact, I'm pretty well known amongst, well, those who know me as someone who is completely incapable of interacting with children in any way.
That said, I am, on a daily basis, a party to psychological assessments of, police reports concerning, custodial placements requested for and court orders regarding children who have developmental delays, disabilities or disorders, children who have been neglected, are convicted or abducted, children whose parents are incarcerated, who were born of trafficked women or who grew up in asylum seekers' centres.
What I do know about children is that their behaviour is very strongly shaped by circumstance. In fact, 'acting to mature' and 'not being able to act like a child' are issues well enough known that they call for immediate action by youth protection authorities where I live.

What I'm trying to say here is that, while Rin is certainly designed to appeal to the general audience, her behaviour in itself, though unlikely, is neither impossible nor even implausible.
What is more damning, though, is the rest of her portrayal. As said, I don't think her behaviour is all that uncommon, nor are her mental faculties too mature. What is true, though, is that she is not portrayed as a child. Her design is that of a scaled-down adult or teenager. The animation is sloppy in this regard, as she doesn't move like a child does (Kure-nai's Murasaki and Clannad AS's Ushio are better animated). The script-writing is off, in that, even though the words she uses are simple enough, her sentences are just too glib. Which isn't helped at all by the fact that it is clearly an adult who does the voice acting - necessary, I know, but unconvincing.

So, no. Rin is certainly not presented as a child. Neither are Kouki and Reina. They're scaled-down adults. But I don't think it's even possible for any scenario writer to present children convincingly (it's not for no reason that writing books for children just might be the most difficult career option when trying to become an author).
Given this, I think it might be a bit unfair to have this show stand or fall by how Rin is portrayed. In fact, I'd be willing to state that she is actually the extra here, the prop 'child', and that what matters to the story is how Daikichi handles it all.
Then again, I haven't read the manga, so, really, what do I know?

Also, on a more general note:
Uriel1988 said:
Would it be fair to criticize To-Love-Ru for its unrealistic depiction of romantic relationships? I think not, seeing as the series never aspires to do so.


While I've made good use of the 'it tries to be X' argument in my time, this is, in itself, not a very convincing one as, logically, we would have to extend it to giving praise to a show that aspires to be absolutely worthless and succeeding at it.
The question one may, I suppose, rightfully ask here is: should a series have aspired for excellence when it comes to our inducting it or not? That is, can we actually blame To Love-Ru, in the unlikely event it was ever spotlighted, for not being relatable at all? I admit that comedy is a difficult genre in this respect, but the general question remains.
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Nov 13, 2011 5:50 PM

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Uriel1988 said:
I'll believe that she's very mature for her age


Not once had I thought she was mature. She was well-behaved and disciplined, perhaps it is the result from spending so much time with an old person

Archeaon said:
Unfortunately the majority of people don't think kids can act like Rin until they see it for themselves.


To some extent, I could imagine Rin to be realistic. Would you believe me if I told you I was like her? Maybe I wouldn't had scolded the other kids to stop because it's easier for a girl to tell a group of boys to stop than a boy telling a group of boys to stop.

santejan said:
So, no. Rin is certainly not presented as a child. Neither are Kouki and Reina. They're scaled-down adults.


Man...I wait for the day when a guy comes and asks me to check out the size of his dump.
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Nov 13, 2011 5:56 PM

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santetjan said:
While I've made good use of the 'it tries to be X' argument in my time, this is, in itself, not a very convincing one as, logically, we would have to extend it to giving praise to a show that aspires to be absolutely worthless and succeeding at it.

The question one may, I suppose, rightfully ask here is: should a series have aspired for excellence when it comes to our inducting it or not? That is, can we actually blame To Love-Ru, in the unlikely event it was ever spotlighted, for not being relatable at all? I admit that comedy is a difficult genre in this respect, but the general question remains.


Looking back, I must acknowledge that it was indeed a poor argument.

That said, I still think that there's some truth to it. When I judge a work of fiction, I try to figure out what the creator strived for when making it and then judge it based on how well I felt it accomplishes what it sets out to do. It just makes sense to me, personally.

Your ''in my day'' comment suggests that you disagree with this way of looking at things, however. And I would say that, yes, series that are spotlighted her should strive for excellence seeing as this is a club that wishes to round up all the exemplary series.

But I digress. This thread was made to discuss Usagi Drop so this discussion might be best left for another topic.
Nov 13, 2011 5:56 PM

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Wilio said:


However, there was a scene in the anime that I actually watched and found to be wonderful.



Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
Nov 13, 2011 5:58 PM

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Uriel1988 said:
You strongly emphasize that Usagi Drop is unique within the medium. Which is true. But does that mean that the series deserves a free pass on the way it makes parenting look like a walk in the park?


I really don't see how you could have got that this series makes parenting look like a walk in the park. Every episode presents real problems that a parent would have to deal with in child care. The Loss of a Career, the Loss of a social life, and probably the biggest impact would be the responsibility of protecting and caring for someone else. This didn't completely hit home for Daikichi until Rin got sick. I think what made it look so easy was Daikichi seemed to take all these intrusions to his life too easily. In many ways though Daikichi needed Rin as much as she needed him. I think Daikichi was lonely and unhappy. His job and personal life were very unfulfilling. He was walking through life as so many of us do today, in need of social affection and loving interpersonal relationships. Once again I can't help but admit that since I am seriously the chosen demographic here, single thirty something male, that I really identify with Daikichi. Perhaps it has blinded my judgement a little.

I really liked the beginning of the series when his sisters and other family members immediately reacted in a typical selfish fashion. Self interest became clear real quick as it does so often in liberal societies. I also liked how this series showed that even males have maternal instincts and can make good parents.

As for the Rin issue, it's clear to me that Rin's mother neglected and or abused her from the get go. Rin's prime parental figure was Daikichi's father who was an old man, someone who had the life experience and understanding in how to raise children already. Older people are just more patient and full of a wealth of helpful knowledge and insight into how to deal with children. While I watched Rin's more mature behavior, I always attributed it to towards her acting out upon her abandonment issues and the fact that her key parental figure was an older man. I didn't separate this from her personality and use it to justify her behavior.



@Archaeon:

I don't have any children but my sister was a single mother and my niece was definitely no Rin. Actually my niece is an entirely different case study because I believe the family overcompensated by spoiling her. This has created all sorts of new issues for her. However, had my sister ran off on her at an early age I can see her personality becoming more like Rins.

@Ladyx

I'm curious if these children you've dealt with are from broken families and psychologically scared children? I suppose that some parts of this series was overly idealized. Rin's character was lacking a certain sadness that I was waiting to see develop a little more with the introduction of her mother. This aspect never completely developed, and I was under the impression that it would probably be the subject of the next season. It's unfortunate to see that it wasn't explored more, it would have made Rin's character more dynamic and probably would have dispelled most of this discussion about Rin being too ideal of a child. Basically the series does lack a real sense of sadness and heartbreak. Rin internalized this pain, and the author choose not to express this sadness in the first series. That doesn't mean that the sadness wasn't present, it just wasn't on the surface, it manifested itself in the overly needy Rin. Once again I'm very disappointed that there won't be a second season in which we can see her struggle through some of these more complex emotions that she seems to be internalizing in this first part of the series. Of course many of these emotions and sadness often don't manifest themselves until much later in life. I'm still voting yes, because I think the show did a good job of showing many of the negative and positive aspects of child rearing. I'll just reiterate that this series seems to be very aimed towards an older single otaku demographic without children, therefore it obviously does leave out the hard truths about raising children.

I wanted to believe this.

Orion1Nov 14, 2011 12:58 AM
Nov 13, 2011 6:22 PM

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Orion1 said:
I really don't see how you could have got that this series makes parenting look like a walk in the park. Every episode presents real problems that a parent would have to deal with in child care. The Loss of a Career, the Loss of a social life, and probably the biggest impact would be the responsibility of protecting and caring for someone else.


I felt that the impact of those problems weren't all that present or at least not felt (much) within the story.

Loss of career? Yeah, Daikichi takes on a lower-paying job with regular hours to better take care of Rin. But you never see him worrying about how he's got less to spend because of it nor does he ever regret or even doubt his decision.

Loss of social life? Daikichi didn't have much of a social life from what I could tell. I recall that he once makes an offhand comment about how he used to go out drinking before Rin came into his life but he never really expresses that desire in the series nor do you see him turn away former drinking buddies. He makes all these big changes in his life and yet it feels as if he only has the slightest bit of trouble adjusting to it all.

On paper, Usagi Drop is the story of 2 people who make the most of a set of very unfortunate circumstances and help each other rise above them. In practice, though, the way Rin and Daikichi get along is just so smooth and perfect that it almost seems like they were destined to be together. An interpretation that's actually reinforced by certain developments in the later half of the manga (which the anime doesn't cover) up to and including the controversial ending.
Uriel1988Nov 13, 2011 6:52 PM
Nov 14, 2011 7:51 AM

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Orion1 said:
[

@Ladyx

I'm curious if these children you've dealt with are from broken families and psychologically scared children?

They are all in the same private school, the same school I went to. They are overly spoiled for the most part and many come from monoparental families. Most of these children are abused in a reverse way: they don't lack, they have too much. It's weird, but we deal with them all the same and they have their little problems all the same. It's fun that most of these children try to act mature and fail hard, because they don't have the experience yet.

On any case, this gave me the idea to show this series to my friend that is a teacher at a "bad" neighbourhood with a lot of abused children, just to see what she thinks about it.
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Nov 14, 2011 1:27 PM

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Upddated compilation of quotes in this thread
_laz_Nov 17, 2011 6:21 PM
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Nov 14, 2011 3:16 PM

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santetjan said:
Which isn't helped at all by the fact that it is clearly an adult who does the voice acting - necessary, I know, but unconvincing.


You've made Matsuura, Ayu sad.
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Nov 14, 2011 4:05 PM

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Decamper said:
You've made Matsuura, Ayu sad.


Clearly the issue is that she's too convincing, heh.
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Nov 15, 2011 12:42 PM

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Ah, yes, my mistake. I considered that all voice actors necessarily be adults, because of this small issue called 'child labour laws', but I forgot that this is the entertainment industry and that it has been gracefully provided with a special dispensation from ethics.
However, this does not invalidate the argument, as it can easily be re-phrased like 'it is clear that the script writer/voice director/whatever they deem to call it is an adult': the fact remains that Rin's speech patterns and mannerisms are just too polished, too free of errors and too glibly produced. This is not how a child of six years speaks and sounds really unnatural.

Of course, this is a minor issue, but I have to return here to the argument of what the show aspires to be and what is important to it - and the relationship between grown-up Daikichi and little child Rin is rather central to it all.

Also, Uriel, the issue of what is important when considering a series worthy of induction may certainly be broached here, as it influences the discussion of this series.
As I said, yes, I have used the 'what does it try to be?' argument myself, but it must be accompanied by pointing out whether or not the things a series tries to incorporate (or not) are actually relevant to its reception.
Taking the To Love-Ru example once again, it certainly could have aspired to portray the relationship between the main characters as lifelike as possible. But would that have mattered at all to the series as a whole? Would it have been a greater or lesser success if it has succeeded at this? Conversely, should we lambast it for not paying attention to such matters?
Applying this to Usagi Drop, the real question would be: does it matter to the show as a whole whether it succeeds at its aspiration to be a realistic portrayal? That is, is it important whether or not one can relate to what is going on? (I suppose that, in this case, yes, it is important, seeing as how most people here go on mainly about this question.)

Ah, and Confucius:
Man...I wait for the day when a guy comes and asks me to check out the size of his dump.


Can you honestly tell me no-one ever ran up to you wanting to share that he had just shat a perfect möbius strip?
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Nov 16, 2011 8:10 AM

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santetjan said:
Rin's speech patterns and mannerisms are just too polished, too free of errors and too glibly produced. This is not how a child of six years speaks and sounds really unnatural.


To be fair, this applies to most dialogue in fiction. That may not excuse it (entirely) but I don't feel it's fair to hold that against it.

santejan said:
I have used the 'what does it try to be?' argument myself, but it must be accompanied by pointing out whether or not the things a series tries to incorporate (or not) are actually relevant to its reception.


You're correct. And it's definitely something that can only be discussed on a case-by-case basis. That said, I feel I did a decent enough job explaining why I felt that it was relevant in the case of Usagi Drop.

I will say, though, that you're right that the 'what does it try to be' argument doesn't (always) hold up in and of itself. I'llhave to rethink my way of using it.
Nov 16, 2011 6:22 PM

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IIRC, Yuzuyu's speech patterns and mannerisms are more flawed than Rin in every aspect; she is more realistic than Rin in terms of the voice acting.
In that sense, santetjan's criticism is valid if we are treating Usagi Drop as one of the most realistic (not real) anime ever made since another anime series has portrayed its characters more realistically in terms of voice acting.

Archaeon said:
Kippei was put in the role of perpetual babysitter rather than guardian, and there was always the understanding that Yuzuyu's mother would come back for her.

Yes but the core mechanics are extremely similar so I just grouped them together.

After all, your story only ends when you die, so why should a realistic anime be any different?

It lacks some sort of catharsis which, IIRC, Aishiteruze Baby, Koi Kaze (sort of), 5 Centimeters per Second, and Grave of the Fireflies all have.
Nodame Cantabile has it as well but I'm not sure if it is realistic enough.

Uriel1988 said:
In practice, though, the way Rin and Daikichi get along is just so smooth and perfect that it almost seems like they were destined to be together.

which is why it is a balanced MOE & slice of life title with realism. Like Aria, you're not suppose to take it so seriously.

Orion said:
no way is moe ever beneficial or instructional in regards to parenting.

If Usagi Drop is considered to be the only parenting anime ever made, then I must disagree when it comes to its aesthetics. Similar to the Aria series, it can't work without the moe. Otherwise, it becomes almost real with a more slice of life feel than Aria.

and Exkalamity's post is a dream that can only become a reality with hard statistics and research which will take at least year since the airing of the first episode.
Current ratings are strongly polarized nowadays (I'm looking at you, AnoHana, Gintama (not completely sure yet but my initial impression is that it is not 9+/10 material a.k.a masterpiece having the same quality of Tatami Galaxy and LoGH), Madoka, and Steins;Gate) so it doesn't count.
_laz_Nov 17, 2011 5:46 PM
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Nov 18, 2011 3:18 PM

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lazlain said:
Yes but the core mechanics are extremely similar so I just grouped them together.


I'm not sure what you mean by "the core mechanics". One has the support of his family, the other must raise the child on his own. One has the ability to slack off at school and still manages to be late picking up the child from school. The other quit a better paid job and must work in a physically taxing environment throughout the day, then rush to pick up the child on time (which he does).

One doesn't raise the child. The other one does

Kippei isn't a parent, Daikichi is. The mechanics are not the same, or are you saying that all babysitters automatically qualify as parents?

lazlain said:
It lacks some sort of catharsis which, IIRC, Aishiteruze Baby, Koi Kaze (sort of), 5 Centimeters per Second, and Grave of the Fireflies all have.
Nodame Cantabile has it as well but I'm not sure if it is realistic enough.


Erm, it does have catharsis. Rin needs Daikichi as much as Daikichi needs Rin, and by the end of the series they both understand that.

5 Centimetres Per Second and Grave of the Fireflies don't really have catharsis. What they have is closure.

lazlain said:
If Usagi Drop is considered to be the only parenting anime ever made, then I must disagree when it comes to its aesthetics. Similar to the Aria series, it can't work without the moe. Otherwise, it becomes almost real with a more slice of life feel than Aria.


How many ugly 6 year old children are there in this world?

Besides, very few people would consider the image of Rin holding her tooth while blood drips from her gums to be moe (and if you do, then you need serious help).
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Nov 18, 2011 4:14 PM

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Archaeon said:

How many ugly 6 year old children are there in this world?

All of them.
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Nov 18, 2011 4:24 PM

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@Ladyx

I've heard of terrible 2's but never ugly 6's. (I'm tired of LoL but LoL)
Nov 18, 2011 4:40 PM

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ladyxzeus said:
Archaeon said:

How many ugly 6 year old children are there in this world?

All of them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo2Y4PzTCOct=1m40
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Nov 19, 2011 9:49 AM

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lazlain said:
It lacks some sort of catharsis


Leaving aside whether or not it actually does, isn't such a lack exactly what - for lack of a better word coming to mind - the special gimmick of slice of life shows is? The lack of a resolution to matters - or of matters to be resolved in the first place - is what provides a focus that is squarely on either the characters or their setting, the plot being seated in the back.
Granted, it is exactly this point that allows one to question the validity of 'slice of life' as a true storytelling genre, as there is really no story, allowing one to question what the point of showing the slice is in the first place.
I suppose one thing that is aimed for in such shows is an emotional attachment to the characters simply because they are who they are instead of what happens to them and what this does to them because of the vagaries of a story. If this is the case, though, the characters really need be realistic within their setting. For Usagi Drop, which takes place in the here and now, that would mean the characters would actually have to act like people - the level of achievement of which is precisely what is questioned in this thread.
So we have no real story, meaning it is up to the characters to carry the show. But we also have no 'real' characters (even if a valiant effort was at times made).

For that matter:
Uriel1988 said:
To be fair, this applies to most dialogue in fiction. That may not excuse it (entirely) but I don't feel it's fair to hold that against it.

This wouldn't be so much of a problem if the fiction in question was centred around a story, with the characters really being actors acting out their parts in it. In fact, in some genres idealisation and playing of type is exactly what is needed.
However, it is especially in character-centric dramas, and particularly 'slice of life' shows where the issue becomes more galling, as much more of the effect of the show hinges on the audience's appreciation of the characters.

Finally:
lazlain said:
Similar to the Aria series, it can't work without the moe.

I'll probably never understand what is exactly meant by 'moe', but I do believe that it would really be stretching the term into meaninglessness if even Aria were to be included. I cannot for the life of me consider Aria to be in any way 'moe'.
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