Spotlight Anime: Clannad: After Story MAL Anime Information Page: Clannad: After Story MAL Score – 9.12 (by 48252 users) Ranked - #5 Popularity - #41 For the next week I would like to have a discussion about the anime that focuses on the key elements that we here on MAL use to critically rate an anime: Animation, Sound, Characters, Story, and Enjoyment. I would like everyone to approach this thread as if you were going to write a review and structure your initial post like this: Animation - insert rating Sound - insert rating Characters - insert rating Story - insert rating Enjoyment - insert rating Animation - discuss any pros and cons of the animation styling used in the series, try to include some specifics. Sound - describe any of the things you liked or didn't care for in regards to the music and sound effects used in the series etc... If you are having trouble writing up a review or coming up with specific pros and cons, please don't worry. Just do the best you can with it and if you can only write two or three sentences about any of the 5 elements then that's OK. Not everyone here is currently at a level which will allow them to articulate their thoughts and opinions. After your initial post is made you can feel free to civilly discuss issues of contention. I am sure there will be many opinions expressed here that some of us will disagree upon and criticise and it is for that reason that this entire club exists. So I hope everyone has fun and I am really looking forward to watching this discussion unfold. RESULTS OF THE YOU DECIDE POLL Clannad: After Story was NOT inducted into the club Anime list: 19 Yes - 40.4% 28 No - 69.5% 26 Don't know this anime - 33.7% of the total number polled 4 Abstained - 5.1% of the total number polled Resurrected You Decide results: Clannad: After Story (Anime) (12/9/21) - Yes: 16 - No: 16 - Haven't Watched: 18 ~ Abstained: 2 - 50.00% |
HiroM_Dec 31, 2021 5:10 AM
| You do not beg the sun for mercy. |
| I can understand the rage and angst this spotlight will probably have, but After Story is actually a good show in my book. Anyway, I'm not going to try to defend it, since my vote will probably/mostly be a no. |
| -Fixing- |
| I hate this ending *rage* |
 |
| Fan service comes in all forms. Clannad:AS decided to choose a "fan service" ending but in my opinion that's not the only thing that's wrong with this series. Cliche is written all over this anime. Characters that you can even predict their dialogue, cliche setting, bad script and above all falling in a cycle that became predictable too early. Sad, tearjerker story with fluff and cuteness starts but it surely wouldn't wanna harm the delicate minds of the fans who now have puffy eyes and as a result every story ends with an emotional/happy conclusion: Dead girls are revived, the brokenhearted maidens find peace, sick people are healed and if the story was running for more than 24 episodes I'm sure all the arcs would follow suit. Boring, predictable, cliche and dumbed down to cater to certain audience. It's huge "NO" for me. |
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| Well, I am going to be stuck here for a long time and will have a huge post going if I do this all in one go. As such, I'm going to split this one out into sections, and post each section one at a time. Fortunately I already have a blog written about the soundtrack. Be warned: rage will follow. Animation Sound: http://theotaku2anime.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/understanding-ambience/ 5/10 |
LindleSep 3, 2011 10:11 AM
kokuro said: I'd largely second this, but I still think there were some really good parts in it. Boring, predictable, cliche and dumbed down to cater to certain audience. It's huge "NO" for me. First of all it gets extra points for being a harem romcom drama where the lead actually ends up with someone, and after Nagisa died, it really took a splendid turn. Tomoyas depression and final forgiveness of his father that in turn spurred him to become a responsible father himself was great, and if it ledt off at that, I'd definitely be giving it a yes. But then you have a terrible, nonsensical deus ex machina ending that invalidates any drama, emotional impact and mature themes it had gathered up until then. And don't even get started about how it all makes sense in the VN, because a bad adaption is a bad adaption and thus simply bad. And the few random magical occurrences, tacked on extra-dimensional garbage robots and light orbs in no way laid the groundwork necessary to make the ending seem passable. |
| The first half was really not that good. Trying to turn a strictly comic relief character into something that has angst and anger and a soul is a poor idea. My memory on this arc is pretty vague, but I strictly recall a scene where it's raining and there's all these dudes and then there's some fight. What I recall about is that it was overly dramatic and thus came across as dumb. But what am I talking about the focus should be on the second half which was great. It was touching, it was realistic (at the very least the emotions it portrayed were very realistic), and it promised to conclude with a fantastic bittersweet ending (or just completely sad - either one would have been fine). But yes, as everyone has said, they went for the worst possible outcome by undoing everything with some shitty typical key reasoning that they didn't actually explain in the show (apparently tomoya collected orbs and then he got enough to turn back time LMFAO). Oh and of course they had to bring in the worst character of all time @ the ending too (i refer here to Fuko) Such a waste |
| Animation. It is great, can't expect less from KyoAni. Almost no lazy backgrounds, really good character animation. If it weren't thanks to this, AS would probably be a below average anime. One thing to notice, none of the characters, but Ushio, seemed to age. 9/10 Sound I didn't really enjoyed any of the songs, didn't notice most of the background songs as they were pretty low compared to character voices; also, the timing for them was poor, most of the time it made no sense for a background song to be there. Usually, the final part of the episodes would be the 'touching' part, yet the ending was this energetic, upbeat song. A real mood-killer. 5/10 Characters Nothing special here either. You won't see anyone different than what you see in any other kind of anime. They eventually grow, albeit only mentally, and, from time to time, they seemed to get out of their one-dimensional persona. 7/10 Story AS' weak spot. The pacing was great, the content was also good and interesting, the overlapping with the Illusion World gave the anime a bit of mystery; everything was going great, until...The last three or so episodes. This is where everything went downhill. By some kind of magical act, everything bad becomes good and a sad ending becomes a good ending, just for the sake of it. I tried to get some questions answered by some people who played the VN, and they couldn't answer some of them. Lots of plotholes. 7/10 Enjoyment No matter how many technical flaws this anime may have, I can't deny did enjoyed it a lot. It made me cry more than anything I've ever watched and I'm sure I grew as a person, too. I will, no doubt, recommend this anime to other people. 9/10 |
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| Fun thing that I did not see the robot story as a plot procedure to make things end happy. I mean, I saw it that way the first season, but in the second season the whole thing distinguished itself and had, for me, a completely different perspective. This to say that I don't think things ended up like they did because of a silly magic trick. Alas, I'm not really sure on how they ended, but I'd prefer them to work out alright. I like Tomoya... |
 Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| Just in case, I'll use spoiler tags. They don't explain any of this in the anime, and even if you have played the VNs it is quite confusing. This is one of the main reasons, for me, why AS' story is so weak. I like Tomoya too, but butchering the whole story just so he can be happy is not all right. |
|
| I interpretated it as "a dream inside a dream", without any knowledge of the rest. If we see it this way, the whole thing instantly turns better, no? xD |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| I was going to weigh in on this too ladyxzeus. For some reason I interpreted the ending as an alternate ending to what would have been the , yes I suppose I fit the demographic Kokuro speaks of, most emotive story I'd ever seen. I've been asking myself why AS invoked so much of an emotional response. I was more than "puffy eyed" it was full on water works in my case. I think Baman eluded to some of the elements that made this story more than just predicable and generic. But it was also the entire story and the history behind both seasons that added to emotional response. If I were to vote no for this series it would probably be based upon the idea that AS wouldn't provoke such an emotional response without the first season? The question mark is because it's been a while and I'm really not sure if this could actually be true. For all intensive purposes, Key and Kyoto animations adaption of Clannad definitely fit into the Moe/harem genre. While I don't think stylistic choices can completely be interpreted as fanservice, as kokuro suggests, it's definitely a style and format that has become highly distasteful to many anime fans including myself. However, in my case I'm not going to write a series off before I give it a chance. Yes the character designs / school harem theme in Clannad are generic, however the soulfulness that Clannad brings to the genre with the depiction of 'slice of life' scenarios, culminating in AS, does warrant some sort of recognition. I thought the plot balanced it's cute themes with 'slice of life' realities and depressing themes in way that made this story more than just another candy coated cutesy harem. I guess to me the story was bittersweet until the end, possibly even Manic depressive. Without the alternate ending the series wouldn't have lived up to it's VN's origins and the entire robot/orb element would have been left unexplained. It wasn't until the orb/wish element was added that this part of the story made any since at all. However for dramatic effect, trying to give Clannad a VN element probably should have been written out. As a whole though, the animation, thoughtful plot elements and music was in large very good. In this case the strengths of the production elements can't be ignored. Story: (edit:) 7/10 Art: 9/10 Character design: 1/10 Animation: 7/10 Music: 7/10 Voice Acting: 5/10 Overall enjoyment: 7/10 Overall for the amount of emotion After Story was able to evoke and the quality of the production I can't help but vote yes. |
Orion1Sep 7, 2011 1:16 PM
| @Orion: I think you're missing/overlooking a few key points that bring After Story down from the level you're putting it at: Is Clannad good at making some people feel emotional while looking pretty? Yes it is. Does it deserve a place on the relations list considering all the flaws it has? I don't think so. |
kokuroSep 6, 2011 10:06 PM
|
| Yes, just to add. Fuko's role as comic relief (random appearances) also made it difficult for me to feel any emotions towards the characters. |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| @Kokuro: I don't really think that I've missed or overlooked the fact that Clannad is not a shoujo. VN=Visual Novel of which has already been well established in this forum. I shouldn't have to point out that VN's are typically aimed more toward males, which you've already made clear in your first post by taking the position that the entire genre is fan service aimed at a specific audience you choose to leave ambigious. You speak of countless anime that use story and plot to develop characters through the depiction of sick/dying people, cute/dumb girl elements, but you haven't mentioned one that did it effectively. I'm guessing that you can't within genre, because your bias towards it's specific style. My argument isn't that Clannad After Story is non generic. I've already said that it was, for that matter we could argue that 99 percent of anime is generic today. Within the genres of school harem, romance and slice of life series, Clannad stands out as definitely noteworthy and something I'd point some one towards as a prime example of one of Kyoto Animations best works. I'm guessing that the Backlash you are feeling towards AS's popularity has more to do with the subjective and less to do with the actual technical merits of the series. Your points about the music could easily be seen in the reverse. The whole role of music is to help instill emotion into a scene, i don't remember it feeling forced, actually quite the contrary. The music in AS in that respect is a masterpiece, because it rarely misses it's queues and all the scores are expressive and well orchestrated. I never really take opening or endings into account unless they are effectively incorporated into the actual plot, like in Macross Frontier. I see how and why you hate Clannad Kokuro, I just don't think you're being fair in it's analysis. Part of the reason I enjoyed the franchise so much was because I saw the same flaws, and yet it still didn't matter because of the actual execution of the plot elements, which included music, art, animation, emotive voice acting that I probably didn't credit enough, and yes even it's Disney ending that softened what would have been a complete tragedy was of a higher quality than I'd seen in other similar works . I guess I still have to reiterate that the actual Fuko happy ending was within the plot design originally started in the first series. It didn't leave me feeling any less puffy eyed to be honest, it only softened what was already an epically tragic anime that did a good job of invoking emotion through the development of dynamic characters and effective dialog accented with a high quality of animation, music and artistic backgrounds. I'm not even mentioning the many other plot devices like foreshadowing and metaphors that were used throughout the series that you found to be so trivial because simply put it's probably impossible to sway you to the idea that it was all intentional. I still think your best argument to getting me to vote no against this series is that Clannad needs to be seen as a whole. Alone AS probably looses a lot of it's emotive effect therefore I couldn't vote yes for it. |
| @Orion I think you missed Kokuro's points. She was pointing out why Clannad, AS specifically, is not the masterpiece everyone thinks it is. She never said she didn't enjoyed it. She voted 'no' because she doesn't consider it a masterpiece, and you should only vote 'yes' on animes you consider masterpieces, not animes you 'enjoy a lot'. I'm sure lots of people will enjoy Clannad, or AS, but its flaws are so big and obvious than it's hard to call it a masterpiece; hence, a 'no' seems the proper way to go. |
|
| @Klownzie: I didn't miss any of Kokuro's points. I just don't agree with them and am only trying to defend a series I consider noteworthy. And since I'm posting again I'll just keep defending the series. I remembered another aspect that AS that was done very well. It was able to excel at something that most anime fail to do effectively. That's incorporate setting and seasonal change to create mood. Many anime try, and most are unsuccessful. The seasons are something that can be yet another emotive tool when done right. After Story is on list of series that used seasons effectively to foreshadow or even as metaphors meant to elicit emotion. The snow and winter setting during the death scene of Ushio, and the individuality of the snowflakes falling is a prime example of how AS incorporated a multiplicity of devices to help establish mood. I honestly can't remember another series or movie that has ever evoked that much emotion from me. The wish orbs and robot for me represented the light of hope that every person holds onto in times of great disparity. I remember wondering if Tomoya had actually had a mental break with reality at that point. To me the ending is bittersweet and ambiguous. We really don't know if this wish was actually a fabrication of Tomoya's subconscious or not. I interpreted it as such, while others can pretty much look on the surface and basically call it a cop out ending, I see it more as a break with reality and an effective plot device to end the story with hope instead of anguish and despair. Another aspect that seems to have been overlooked is how effective AS transitioned from Tomoya's childhood to his acceptance of Adult realities. How many anime, let alone movies do you see take the time to follow a very average persons life story. Tomoya represents more than just our main protagonist, he is the example of the average wage earner, a person that reflects the human experience of the vast majority of people. Go to school, meet someone you love, settle down to a less than glamorous job that you do in order to support the people who matter most to you, your family and loved ones. It is this humanistic approach and the tragedy within the simple life that gives edge to the already thoroughly criticized genericness that has been established. In some aspects you could say that the generic format is the perfect plot device to push forward the story and exemplify the generic nature of most of our own lives. |
Orion1 said: Another aspect that seems to have been overlooked is how effective AS transitioned from Tomoya's childhood to his acceptance of Adult realities. How many anime, let alone movies do you see take the time to follow a very average persons life story. Tomoya represents more than just our main protagonist, he is the example of the average wage earner, a person that reflects the human experience of the vast majority of people. Go to school, meet someone you love, settle down to a less than glamorous job that you do in order to support the people who matter most to you, your family and loved ones. It is this humanistic approach and the tragedy within the simple life that gives edge to the already thoroughly criticized genericness that has been established. In some aspects you could say that the generic format is the perfect plot device to push forward the story and exemplify the generic nature of most of our own lives. This is what I think is After Story's strongest aspect, one I think many people on both sides seem to ignore when discussing it much to my confusion. Tomoya's life felt so real, especially after Nagisa passed. That and essentially the entire little trip he took with his daughter were really powerful to me for how natural and, as Orion puts it, "generic" they are. At the very least, I find it hard to believe this show isn't at least exemplary in its genre. |
| "My tables-meet it is I set it down That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain." |
| You know, not all delinquents have a harem of their own. So I am not sure how you can find Tomoya's life 'real'. Honestly, you have to be blind to not foresee her death. She was ill like thrice before graduating? I honestly don't even know how Nagisa conceives a child when they blush just holding hands. |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
Confucius said: I honestly don't even know how Nagisa conceives a child when they blush just holding hands. In fact I tought this was a very positive aspect. Actually not showing and not even implying that the natural things eventually happened is a change from our usual formula (if characters have sex everyone gotta know it during at least half of an episode!) |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
NavyCherub said: It's just too bad that they didn't realize this when they made the anime. This is what I think is After Story's strongest aspect, one I think many people on both sides seem to ignore when discussing it much to my confusion. Tomoya's life felt so real, especially after Nagisa passed. That and essentially the entire little trip he took with his daughter were really powerful to me for how natural and, as Orion puts it, "generic" they are. At the very least, I find it hard to believe this show isn't at least exemplary in its genre. Because even though that last development for Tomoya was great, it was ruined completely by the ending. Suddenly it wasn't a touching and realistic story about love, loss, acceptance and growth anymore, but a cheap, unimaginative happy ending that singlehandedly ruined all the themes and emotions previously invoked. It's almost as if the Wire had ended with McNulty suddenly becoming president, eliminating the budget crisis, fixing the schools and stopping all drug trafficking with the wave of a hand. Granted, Clannad was mostly generic harem romcom fare with a dash of random KEY style supernatural filler, up until Nagisa died so in a sense, it merely reverted back to it's generic roots in the end. But it was still terrible to have to watch it destroy all the good stuff it had finally managed to build up. |
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