Spotlight Character: Sayaka Miki (Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica) MAL Character Information Page: Sayaka Miki MAL Favorites: 119 For the next week I would like to have everyone familiar with this character discuss what they think makes it an exceptional character. What attributes make it stand out in the ocean of interesting characters that exist in the realms of anime and manga. Unlike the other two subjects I will not force this conversation to fall into any set structure. Characters that are nominated typically get here because they are adept at breaking the existing character moulds and defying definition. Because of this freedom I encourage everyone to do their very best to stay on topic and keep any and all debate civil. Have fun and I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say about this character. RESULTS OF THE YOU DECIDE POLL Sayaka Miki was NOT inducted into the club Character list: 12 Yes - 21.0% 45 No - 78.9% 17 Don't know this character - 22.3% of the total number polled 2 Abstained - 2.6% of the total number polled |
santetjanJul 26, 2011 9:46 AM
| You do not beg the sun for mercy. |
Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica is sure to become one of the most frequently cited examples of genre deconstruction, and Kyuubey has ascended to infamy for establishing such a twisted and misleading system within the story. However, credit should also be given to the girls for demonstrating how such extreme situations could affect your archetypical anime characters when all safety measures have been removed from the fairytale. Among them, Miki Sayaka leaves the strongest impression due to the direction of her development. Sayaka is basically an ordinary girl with noble intentions, understandable desires, and human flaws. Had she been part of a different story, another author might have made her experience many hardships, but she would have eventually earned her happy ending. But what if that happy ending was not guaranteed? Some viewers might argue that her situation appears contrived by specifically denying her what she desired. But that's the whole point. If you discovered that happiness was not guaranteed, that it would come at a great personal cost, that your sacrifice may even be futile in the end; would you still be willing to do what you believe to be right? What if, for a given situation, your ideals compelled you to be not just a saint but a selfless martyr, to live by the words of Ignatius of Loyola: to give and not to count the cost, Would altruism still be a preferable, nay, a possible option? To all these, Sayaka's answer is “yes”.to fight and not to heed the wounds, to toil and not to seek for rest, to labor and not to seek reward Unfortunately, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. After internalizing Mami's example and repudiating both Kyouko and Homura, Sayaka tries to walk the narrow path. She becomes more judgmental, and her world is divided into black and white. Her motives slowly decay from “protecting those dear to her” to “punishing the wicked”. Adding to the tragedy is her inability to live up to her own high standards. She regrets saving Hitomi, lashes out against her best friend, rejects those who offer a helping hand, and implicitly kills the two misogynists. Unable to forgive her own trespasses, she considers herself a failure of a hero who's unworthy of love. What we get is a star collapsing into a black hole, and it's god-damned spectacular as it is depressing. While its true that her actions had the least direct impact in Madoka's story, it is Sayaka's experience which puts everything into perspective. It is through her that the viewers are shown the gravity of the situation. Kyuubey isn't simply killing off little girls or turning them into monsters. The manipulative little critter is pushing them into a situation wherein their own emotions, ideals, and desires would turn against them and destroy them from within. Sayaka in relation to other characters of the show: Further comparisons with characters of other shows: Random: |
YuunagiJul 15, 2011 5:13 PM
| Bwah, the only character I would give yes in this series, fallen hero full of internal self-loathing and hatred. |
| EDIT: Rephrasing this. Honestly, not nearly as impressive as she is frequently made out to be. The plot stemming from her character and various implications in her characterisation that Yuunagi outlined are fine, but her actual characterisation is completely flat. I liked Madoka, but none of the characters are really strong enough on their own to be worth inducting. And even if I were to induct any of them, it'd be Homura, not Sayaka. |
LindleMay 5, 2013 10:06 PM
Lind_L_Tailor said: True, she's not the first of her kind, but that does not change my opinion that she's the most exemplary tragic hero I've ever encountered in anime (and by "tragic", I mean "a character with some fatal flaw", not "shit happens in my life, woe is me"). Honestly, not nearly as impressive as she is frequently made out to be. She may have some decent characterisation, but her character itself is nothing interesting and nothing we haven't seen before. Almost everybody else suffered from some shortcoming. Lelouch was promising, but his character relied to much on unexpected external factors to mar his plans. Light was similar, but the utter lack of internal reflection was disappointing. On the other end of the spectrum, the entire cast of Evangelion relied too much on internal reflection and did not have enough actual interaction between the characters. In contrast to all these, Sayaka's story struck a fine balance between the various conflicts as she struggled against fate, against other characters, and against herself. And here's the clincher: she lost the the war on all three fronts. I could only think of a handful of characters that could match that kind of tragedy, and few of them are in the same media. For manga, it's Okita Soji of Because Goodbyes Are Coming Soon. For Western comics, Dream of the Endless from The Sandman. For literature, Inspector Javert of Les Miserables. For film, Charles Foster Kane from Citizen Kane. From what I've seen so far, Miki Sayaka may be the best representative in the realm of anime. |
YuunagiJul 15, 2011 7:10 PM
| Yuunagi, nothing that you say makes any sense to me. Sayaka is just simple. Adding complexity to a simple character is easy, but it isn't true. |
 Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
ladyxzeus said: Unfortunately, the feeling is mutual.Yuunagi, nothing that you say makes any sense to me. Given the walls of text that I have posted above and in other similar spotlights, some members might notice that I have this penchant for attaching significance and giving meaning to details that would hardly catch the attention of other viewers/watchers. If something could be (mis)construed as symbolic, there is a high probability that I would see it as such. We were forced to do so in highschool and college literature classes, and it has become a rather nasty habit of mine. Although I do try to be objective, I am, for better or worse, a fanboy of this series, and convincing me to see things from a different perspective would require a little more than a handful of impressions which could be summed up in 3 or 4 short sentences. What flaws/shortcomings do you see? What are your criteria? Which other characters do you think serve as better examples for this particular archetype? Unless you're willing to elaborate more, I will be under the impression that you simply are not willing to dig deep enough. |
YuunagiJul 16, 2011 8:13 AM
| Ahahahahaaaa, no. Fuck this stupid emo cunt to Hell. And Yuunagi, where on Earth did you find bullshit about Light? And just for emphasis: you are completely wrong about Sayaka's characterisation too. A magical girl is supposed to defeat witches. That's what she does the entire time. There's no such thing as her motives changing or anything. She just gets depressed because she is too much of an idiotic fucking tool to talk to her boyfriend -who I may add she has a GIGANTIC head start on- and keep him from being swiped clean away fropm her by another girl because she has some retarded emo freakout about her soul being put in a piece of jewelry she can hide inside her body. That's where all her "character development" originates from: her being a fucking socially inept idiot. Faust and Ignatius of Loyola have fuck all to do with it. |
DozerJul 16, 2011 12:33 PM
| Oh fine. I'll spoonfeed you guys. Hell, I'll even do the chewing for you. It's up to you though whether you're going to swallow this masticated mess. Color code for your convenience: Sayaka Madoka Kyouko Homura Mami So, yes, she is an overly emotional lovesick puppy, but I'd find your skills to analyze questionable if that's all that you could see in her. She's at the very least on par with some of the other characters I've mentioned for comparison, and if several members thought that those might have been worth inducting, Sayaka too should deserve consideration. |
YuunagiJul 17, 2011 2:13 AM
| Sorry, fanboy tendencies. |
| I thought Sayaka was great; the tragedy which she allowed her heart to consume after becoming a magical girl seemed to me like a dramatic microcosm to a situation that was pretty relateable. Things happen, sacrifices are made, hearts darken. I thought her character development was displayed well and she definitely remains to be my favorite of the Madoka cast. |
| She is the only developed character in this series. Kyouko is a runner-up and Homura is of honorable mention. If the Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica has more than 12 episodes, positive aspects of her characterization are more apparent. Forced plot devices would not have been used. Sure, she is a simple normal fictional female student with some typical drama but she influenced 9/12 episodes of the entire show. Homura can't compare because of the last arc, especially episode 10. It was rushed and looked liked an excuse to give audience sympathy. In the end, the only character I liked in the cast is Kyuubey. Blame the series length, not the characters. |
_laz_Jul 17, 2011 8:38 PM
| The threat is stronger than the execution. |
| I think the characters could have had a better chance if the series was a tad bit longer for development. |
| I essentially agree with Yuunagi for the most part, though I still don't really understand how Sayaka and Light are connected. However, it hasn't been mentioned yet tgar one of the most important aspects of Sayaka and the implications her existence represents is her inevitable death; it's powerful that the one character with the most outwardly selfless original intentions is the same character who's corruption and eventual death is completely unavoidable in every timeline. Her inability to admit to her own selfishness and desires always results in her downfall. lazlain said: Homura can't compare because of the last arc, especially episode 10. It was rushed and looked liked an excuse to give audience sympathy. It was foreshadowed heavily and is essentially the driving force that made the plot possible, so I completely disagree. But this thread is about Sayaka, so I won't go into it too much here. |
| "My tables-meet it is I set it down That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain." |
Confucius said: I have to agree here. Again, Homura is the closest to induction in my book, but I wouldn't because her development is too rushed.I think the characters could have had a better chance if the series was a tad bit longer for development. |
NavyCherub said: Not really "connected", but they are similar in that both characters did not have a grander antagonist manipulating their moral outlook/development. Both originally had good intentions, but these became tainted as the story progressed, and they became killers of their own free will. The primary distinction is that Light did not realize or regret the change while Sayaka did and could not forgive herself for it. The difference in direction is the result of their stories having different central ideas: Whereas Death Note warned about the combination of ideals and absolute power, Sayaka's arc in Madoka★Magica focused more on conflict between ideals, selfish desires, and human shortcomings. Both could be regarded as less common flavors of tragedy.I essentially agree with Yuunagi for the most part, though I still don't really understand how Sayaka and Light are connected. |
lazlain said: Basically I have a very similar opinion as lazlain for the most part. @Yuunagi: You almost have me convinced. However, Sayaka's character was an annoyance much of the time. I did like her more after she became a puella magica because it became apparent that at that moment (she)a supporting character was attempting to become a main character and step out of the shadow of Mami and Madoka. Her fight to become important to the plot was successful in forcing Madoka to finally act, and in that device she was a very effective tool. I see how you could call her an exemplary character because of her role in the tragic elements, but it still doesn't seem to be enough for me to want to put her on the relations list. Kyuubey on the other hand would probably be the only character I'd vote yes for. Diabolical to the max and the only character that surprised me. His blend of Sweet and diabolical were creepy to the max. Unfortunately as for Sayaka, I just didn't care if she died or not, it was almost expected and even possibly desired because she was in competition with the Madoka for the lead. Had the series killed off Madoka spectacularily and made Sayaka the new Lead character, I might think about voting yes for her. Once again the series would have had to have been a bit longer and Sayaka would need a lot more development. But as a plot tool, she was very effective to the point of annoyance. I might still vote yes, but I'm not sure what more you could say to get me over the first and last impressions that her character gives off, which is less than spectacular. I do admire the character more though after reading your comments and putting some more thought into her role. |
Orion1Jul 20, 2011 3:09 AM
| The truth is that I see Sayaka as two things: a plot driver and a plot device. She is not really developed as a character by herself. Her development only occurs so the origin of witches can be explained and so that the plot progresses into the culmination of the actions of the main character, Madoka. In fact, all the actions in the show are made so that Madoka is driven to her final decision and not as things by themselves. This is why I beleive Sayaka's character is basic and that all the exploration is useless and, basically, an invention just to justify her induction. |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
ladyxzeus said: The truth is that I see Sayaka as two things: a plot driver and a plot device. She is not really developed as a character by herself. Her development only occurs so the origin of witches can be explained and so that the plot progresses into the culmination of the actions of the main character, Madoka. In fact, all the actions in the show are made so that Madoka is driven to her final decision and not as things by themselves. This is why I beleive Sayaka's character is basic and that all the exploration is useless and, basically, an invention just to justify her induction. It's true that, in terms of plot, her primary purpose is to serve as a stepping stone leading Madoka to her final decision. With regards to thematic development however, Sayaka is an indispensable character which allows the central ideas to be explored and connected. Faustian references aside, I heavily suspect that Urobuchi Gen had patterned Sayaka and Kyouko (and by extension, Mami and Madoka) after Javert and Valjean from Les Misérables, given that these pairs contrast righteousness and compassion as means to redemption with the latter trumping the former. Victor Hugo said: As previously mentioned, she's certainly not the first, but I do hold her to be uncommon and exemplary in the realm of anime/manga. She's one of the few protagonists I'm aware of which demonstrate how something good can be taken to destructive extremes.Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand: their majesty, the majesty peculiar to the human conscience, clings to them in the midst of horror; they are virtues which have one vice, – error. The honest, pitiless joy of a fanatic in the full flood of his atrocity preserves a certain lugubriously venerable radiance. Without himself suspecting the fact, Javert in his formidable happiness was to be pitied, as is every ignorant man who triumphs. Nothing could be so poignant and so terrible as this face, wherein was displayed all that may be designated as the evil of the good. |
YuunagiJul 20, 2011 9:40 AM
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