^So you might be wondering, is this a church or some other private event where they CAN tell the people in there what to do? Nope. It is a PUBLIC city meeting open to any citizen. After they were done worshiping their sky genie (Who lets face it is about as productive as the members of the city council themselves) they were on their way to worshiping their nation. When the EVIL man said he wouldn't stand up for the pledge, this was ultimately the final straw. I'm actually surprised the cop that showed up didn't shoot him right there and then....hey this is Florida, that EASILY could've happened. Congrats Florida, you are solidly #1 as the biggest embarrassment in the country. |
JustALEX said: ...they were on their way to worshiping their nation. Un-American? Also, there are states much worse than Florida. Get yourself together, man. |
| This isn't even that bad. |
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| Are you a child OP? |
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| When was the last time you made a thread that wasn't about religion? |
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NebulaC3I said: Un-American? It's Un-American to NOT stand up for the pledge of allegiance? That shit's optional you know....and plenty of people do not like certain elements of the pledge and thus don't want to stand up and guess what in a country with freedoms, you shouldn't have to. Tsindria said: When was the last time you made a thread that wasn't about religion? Yesterday. |
| I'm on Alex's side. This shit is embarrassing. |
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| I'm always on Alex's side until Yami and Momo come up in the topic. NebulaC3I said: Subjective assumption is subjective.JustALEX said: ...they were on their way to worshiping their nation. Also, there are states much worse than Florida. Get yourself together, man. |
| "Respect your troops" 1 prayer = 1 respect, share to all your friends |
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| I wonder if they would've taken offense had someone been in a wheelchair and been unable to stand I think they would have |
| [size=200]MAL AVATAR SYSTEM BLOWS |
JustALEX said: Tsindria said: When was the last time you made a thread that wasn't about religion? Yesterday. Really? How refreshing. |
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Tsindria said: JustALEX said: Yesterday. Really? How refreshing. Lol, he couldn't find anything to bash yesterday. Had to recharge. |
| The 7 cult leaders of Florida. |
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| You know, whatever I might personally believe in regards to religion is actually irrelevant to this particular story. This guy's rights were violated to a ridiculous level and yeah I know some people might think that's a stretch. But when a government section of the state is literally KICKING YOU OUT because you hold different views on religion and nationalism and didn't want to stand up for something you DON'T have to stand up for.....this is when real advocates of freedom of speech should speak up. And I'm thankful that the FFRF has already sent a scathing letter to the Mayor of this Florida city and has told him that an apology to this man is in order. And yeah, expect other people to now do the same thing this guy did as an act of solidarity. |
JustALEX said: I thought it's Detroit. oh wellCongrats Florida, you are solidly #1 as the biggest embarrassment in the country. |
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0Gintoki_san0 said: Are you a child OP? Ding ding ding! We have a winner! You guessed correctly! |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| It's considered disrespectful not to stand. Would you want a disrespectful person at a public meeting? |
| It's a shame that my post in the NBA thread went unheeded. I've lost track of how many better ways to approach this subject than what you put on display in the OP. While it is ridiculous that they forced him to stand, it seems more likely to me that he continued to sit down both knowing that he was filming, and knowing that his actions would garner a reaction. In a way it really was disrespectful to not stand at all. I'm not saying that he should have been forced in any way, but standing does not equate to joining in in prayer and/or the pledge of allegiance. Red_Keys said: "Respect your troops" 1 prayer = 1 respect, share to all your friends While funny, that wasn't what he was asking the man to do. He was asking the man to stand, not join in. To me, it's simply the equivalent of taking off your hat when you enter a place of worship as an example. It's a sign of respect; not a sign that you believe in it. Almost anywhere else, not standing wouldn't be a problem. A city meeting though? I'm not surprised this happened in the least. TL;DR -- Don't confuse respect for your country with religion. It's clear the Mayor was able to separate the two, as he exclusively asked the man to stand during the pledge, and not during the prayer. Kicking him out was certainly a violation of rights though. |
UmbryaAug 30, 2014 10:54 AM
Vaskr said: It's considered disrespectful not to stand. Would you want a disrespectful person at a public meeting? What? Who gives a shit if it's disrespectful....it's called RIGHTS! We have the RIGHT to not stand for nationalistic bullshit if we don't want to, regardless of how people feel about it. Legendre said: While it is ridiculous that they forced him to stand, it seems more likely to me that he continued to sit down both knowing that he was filming, and knowing that his actions would garner a reaction. First of all, from the video it is unclear whether the council members knew that they were being filmed, but if they did know....so what? They still can't force him to stand for something he doesn't want to stand for. Personally I also no longer stand for any displays of nationalism in ANY sporting event I go to. And if someone dares to tell me otherwise, my reaction will be very much like the man filming.....I DON'T HAVE TO STAND! It is MY RIGHT not to stand for something I don't believe in or something I simply disagree with. Legendre said: In a way it really was disrespectful to not stand at all. I'm not saying that he should have been forced in any way, but standing does not equate to joining in in prayer and/or the pledge of allegiance. Disrespectful to who? The people there? Who cares? What is ultimately more important to you? Whether or not you appease others, or your own beliefs and values? No one has to stand if they don't want to, and YES a lot of people DO feel that if they stand during a prayer or the pledge it is a way of showing agreement with said prayer or pledge. This is why they don't stand....because they disagree. Legendre said: TL;DR -- Don't confuse respect for your country with religion. It's clear the Mayor was able to separate the two, as he exclusively asked the man to stand during the pledge, and not during the prayer. Kicking him out was certainly a violation of rights though. Let me tell you a funny fact....many JWs (Jehovah's Witness) and other sects of Christianity do NOT stand for things like the Pledge or the National anthem. Do you know why? Because to them, it is an idolization of the flag/country.....and to them THAT is against their beliefs. So, ironically a JW WOULD stand for the prayer but NOT for the pledge. This has NOTHING to do with respect, it has to do with your beliefs and your rights. If you don't believe in god or nationalistic pride then you probably won't stand....someone like me for example. And whether or not people like that or find it disrespectful, you are within your full rights to NOT stand if you wish not to. |
JD2411 said: I don't see why he had to cause unnecessary trouble, he could have just stood instead of being childish I don't see why the city council member had to cause trouble, he could have just respected his rights instead of being childish. |
| [size=200]MAL AVATAR SYSTEM BLOWS |
JustALEX said: Legendre said: In a way it really was disrespectful to not stand at all. I'm not saying that he should have been forced in any way, but standing does not equate to joining in in prayer and/or the pledge of allegiance. Disrespectful to who? The people there? Who cares? What is ultimately more important to you? Whether or not you appease others, or your own beliefs and values? No one has to stand if they don't want to, and YES a lot of people DO feel that if they stand during a prayer or the pledge it is a way of showing agreement with said prayer or pledge. This is why they don't stand....because they disagree. Don't you think it's a little more than mere coincidence that a person who would refuse to stand during the pledge of allegiance would show up at a city council meeting? Don't you think that it's highly probable that he had a specific agenda by filming this? That's why I referenced respect and context in my previous post. Or maybe you don't realize how stupid it would be to work in government and/or public service and not stand for your country's national anthem.. If that's the case, then this conversation isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Respect embodies the majority of this conversation, and it would embody the entire conversation had the man not been forced to stand or leave. Your examples of Jehovah's Witness' and yourself choosing not to stand at a public sporting event only show how far off the mark you are with this. |
| What the fuck? For a moment I thought this was a comedy skit on rednecks... |
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| If you go back to how America gained their independence, refusing to stand for the pledge is a very American thing to do. In actual fact, there are quite a few people who ended up in America precisely because they refused to do something very similar to this. Deportation of the Acadians. Look it up. And in doing so, find out that your grade 7 history textbook totally whitewashed the event to make the brits look worse than they actually were. Fuck. |
Legendre said: Or maybe you don't realize how stupid it would be to work in government and/or public service and not stand for your country's national anthem.. If that's the case, then this conversation isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Respect embodies the majority of this conversation, and it would embody the entire conversation had the man not been forced to stand or leave. What exactly are you saying? That "respect" overrides RIGHTS? Seriously, I don't know where you're going with this. I don't stand up for the National Anthem anymore when I go to sporting events....I haven't done so for years now, and I don't do it to be overtly disrespectful or to make a show or whatever. I do so because A) it's my RIGHT to do whatever the fuck I want as long as I don't infringe the rights of others, and that includes NOT standing up to honor this country if I wish to not do so. And B) Because my personal views are against it. Legendre said: Your examples of Jehovah's Witness' and yourself choosing not to stand at a public sporting event only show how far off the mark you are with this. How so? According to reports, the man on the video is an atheist, his views are very much AGAINST the Christian view and the part in the pledge that says "One nation under god".... Thus he didn't stand up for that stuff, he wanted to quietly stay seated....it's his right to do that. I made an example of how a JW would not stand up for the Pledge or National anthem because they consider that idolatry....in other words it's against their personal beliefs. The same thing applies. This man didn't stand up because of his personal beliefs which are in conflict with things like religious prayer and the Pledge. |
| Yeah.. Not going anywhere. At least we can both agree that forcing him to stand or leave was a violation of rights. |
| Lol individual rights above all and let's never achieve anything of worth ever again, fight the power! |
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