Korrvo said: Mamster-P said: fair enough, keep in mind though most people who think like that end up in jail@Korrvo trust me, i ALWAYS keep in mind that much of this is the "i need to prove im a smart/badass teenager" mentality, which im sure we all went through, but "gettem while they're young" i feel is something that can be done @Nico- hi LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLL what you did there..... i see it...... but hey man...... not if theyre 2d ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
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PatheticRanger said: Not sure the title of the topic goes with the video in OP. Just because fanservice/moe helps anime studios to exist and create other shows doesn't mean it isn't also hurting the industry at the same time. At the moment it seems to be more of a double-edged sword. Where fanservice/moe helps to sustain anime but also takes up and reduces the amount of other kinds of anime that gets produced. Which may slowly lead into a spiralling circle where more and more fanservice/moe anime gets made (because easy money), eventually leading to a saturation point of where the market gets fed up of it and collapses the anime market. As consumers get fed up of seeing that kind of anime at some point later down the line. They can't saturate the market... Is like saying: ''If Hollywood continue to produce so many action movies, one day peoples will get bored of them.'' No they won't, because most peoples who watch them like the action genre. Is the same with moe. Actually if you check the sells, saying that moe anime help the industry is not very accurate... THEY ARE THE INDUSTRY! Most of the time, moe shows sell 3-4 times the ammount that normal ones do... sometimes they sell even ten times the ammount or more. They have a very big and loyal fanbase... if you think that a fanbase that invest so much in a genre will get bored of them one day, you are very wrong. Here in West the standard of beauty revolves around: sexy. In Japan the standard is: cute. They have a culture of cutness that exist in all the layers of media. umashikaneko said: I mean late-night anime as anime that air night time slot typically targeting fandom or youth. Early late-night anime days industry could chose from abundant sources both ''major'' manga titles(1-2 million seller manga all at hand) and ''popular''otaku friendly LN,Gal Game also left intact. Just imagine now late-night anime(anime beyond kids friendly ones) started today in 2016 We would have Death Note,Monster,Nodame,NANA,SNK and a bit less popular Tokyo Ghoul,One Punch Man,Erased,Ore monogatari,Kimi ni Todoke all at hands At the same time relatively niche but more otaku friendly popular sources(LN,VN) such as Monogatari,Toaru Kagaku,Clannad,Haruhi,Sword art online,Higurashi,Durarara,Fate all available too. What are you talking about? All those ''less popular series'' are bestselles in top 30. Monster sold well because it got better period in Japan's economy, but even so with just 20 milions volumes it can't even hold a candle to SNK which sold of 52 milions. The colsest to that level from the ones you mentioned is Initial D which sold 48 milions, but it also had 48 volumes which means that SNK sold way better taking in consideration that it has only 19 volumes. Tokyo Ghoul has around 18 milions of sales too and is growing.Last time when I chacked One Punch Man sold over 1 million volumes in 3 weeks. And I doubt that the anime industry would be any better if we would got Death Note,Monster,Nodame and NANA this year... |
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Nico- said: You know that sad part about this? People here actually have this phase continued through their adulthood, it's like they don't want to get out of being edgy and actually think that being edgy is considered the new intelligence. In reality they are self-entitled whiners, nothing more. and these fucking reviewers that spend all their time calling everything bad and shit aren't helping... im sorry but people like digibro whether they intend to or not are just creating elitists and fueling peoples insecurity "oh look, digibro has videos with over 1millions views, i have to listen to what he says" "oh look 10 people said they do this thing this way, therefore im gonna do it too" |
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My response ------------------------------------ |
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NO MOE DICKIE MOE This is a good response for people who think it's "killing the industry" but says nothing about complaints EDIT :  DICKIEEEE MOEEEEE |
ashfrliebertJul 25, 2016 10:36 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
She looks like she's gonna sneak into my house and break my dick off. Ecchi_Hater_9000 said: Stopped watching when he started talking about a consensus on the Golden Age of anime. I'm sure there are interesting things in the rest of the video, but I'm not gonna bother after that. Good effort, though. That's a very convenient way to stay ignorant. Do you also happen to be a climate change denier? |
No, Digibro is Pretentious Overthinker. I'll send Digibro and ThatAnimeSnob to the Imprison Dungeon and make anime community into better place. I ship them both. |
| Do you play Azure Lane? Then please join my fanclub https://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=74907 |
Goofs said: you're forgetting something: why would they care about international viewers? the international sales of anime haven't been significant ever since the majority of non-Japanese fans started watching everything for free online. the only major revenue any of them make these days is off marginal merchandise sales or through paid streaming sites like Crunchyroll why would they at all care about this audience when the Japanese audience is consistently much more likely to buy the blu-ray along with much more merchandise? all their money is coming from the Japanese market, so obviously they would cater to what those fans want the most Yes I know they don't care about the international audiences. But you got to remember that Japan's population is aging, those same otaku that buy 2 or 3 copies of the same blu-ray will not live forever. They'll eventually change hobby and probably give up otaku fandom. Has the anime industry in Japan not have a future plan when that happen or when that day come? Also it doesn't help that Japan is not promoting other aspect of pop culture like J-pop or J-dramas which really surprised me and many people because Korean pop culture is one proof it worked so why didn't Japan "cash in" on that and start to make J-pop and J-drama accessibility more restricted. I mean I can go on but I don't want to veer off topic. But my point: Sooner or later Japan's anime industry has got to take the international audiences more seriously. |
mdo7 said: But my point: Sooner or later Japan's anime industry has got to take the international audiences more seriously. In reality they don't care even for hundreds of years until their economy died. Japanese people think that International Anime Audience are like Mosquito of Anime Industry. |
| Do you play Azure Lane? Then please join my fanclub https://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=74907 |
i have no idea who demo is and i have a strong feeling i don't want to know |
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| Check his twitter, twitch and second youtube channel. He's still there just chillin' |
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕ |
Nico- said: nah, apparently he's just watching anime a ton lessKorrvo said: Check his twitter, twitch and second youtube channel. He's still there just chillin' ngl i actually thought he died because thatanimesnob, digibro, and bobsamurai are massive attention whores and that actually killed him also does demo support trump? :3 beats me but he likes memeing about it |
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕ |
The one and only True Elitist with no.1 taste in anime, too bad he's inactive. |
| Do you play Azure Lane? Then please join my fanclub https://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=74907 |
| So....let's use some common sense. What keeps any industry going? Growth, right? And how does one grow? Income, profit. And how does one get profits? Yes MALers....I'm sure that DEEP serious elitist show you LOVE so much is raking up millions of yen... And not the moe shit that is selling tons of BDs, figures, and a variety of other anime goods that is mass produced thanks to the high demand of the over sexualization of the characters! |
i'll never understand actual elitism... why can't people just accept that they aren't easily satisfied and maybe certain mediums just aren't going to cater towards them? or at least for the most part i swear, SO MANY PEOPLE get into anime and force themselves to watch as if its some kind of assignment... theres a whole fucking world out there and all kinds of shit to do and all these mfs wanna do is watch something and complain about it what do i do when something doesn't interest me? i don't watch or i drop it..... and i don't even give it attention..... |
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Mamster-P said: i'll never understand actual elitism... why can't people just accept that they aren't easily satisfied and maybe certain mediums just aren't going to cater towards them? or at least for the most part i swear, SO MANY PEOPLE get into anime and force themselves to watch as if its some kind of assignment... theres a whole fucking world out there and all kinds of shit to do and all these mfs wanna do is watch something and complain about it what do i do when something doesn't interest me? i don't watch or i drop it..... and i don't even give it attention..... Finally the hamster filthy casual has spoken something constructive. I'm still waiting for you to convert me Hamster-kun. |
  ♰ ἡ φύσις οὐδὲν ποιεῖ ἅλματα. ♰ συκεροκυ™ |
| Moral of the story is: Don't blame the studios. Blame otaku culture. Demand creates supply, not the other way around. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
kamisama751 said: >makes a thread >puts a video for explaining all the stuff OP you know... you should better write that thing yourselves. He is a semi pleb. I am the true elitist. >looks at completed list >985 You haven't surpassed ThatAnimeSnob yet. Go watch more Retro anime, it's the only solution to prove why Retro always wins. |
GridleyJul 25, 2016 10:54 PM
| Do you play Azure Lane? Then please join my fanclub https://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=74907 |
Goofs said: so to all those guys who hate ecchi shows, slice of life moeblob shows, etc, remember, they're necessary for your favorite "elite" shows to exist. if those shows aren't made, studios don't make money, and they can't take creative risks great shows and movies are still being made at a similar rate to older decades, it's just that more bad moe and ecchi shows are being made to pay for it so studios don't have to close down. I think this is a perfectly reasonable tradeoff I feel like that's just one aspect of why things are they way they are. The demand for Anime rises so the studios needs to keep up. He even mentions that the industry purposely cultivated the need for ecchi, moeblobs, and slice of life shows because it's the lowest common denominator when it comes to easy cash grabs. It has become a vicious cycle of producing low quality shit -> which in turn attracts more and more flies -> which then generates the need to make more low quality shit. Personally I'd like it the way before. Where there wasn't this need to pander just because there existed an overwhelmingly huge demand in order to fund a studio's next serious project. I much rather have each season carry ten or twenty shows and have ten or fifteen range from average to good than forty to fifty shows and have thirty to forty be absolute shit. In a perfect world it'd be quality over quantity but sadly it's the all mighty dollar over all. |
EggsOnToast said: Mamster-P said: i'll never understand actual elitism... why can't people just accept that they aren't easily satisfied and maybe certain mediums just aren't going to cater towards them? or at least for the most part i swear, SO MANY PEOPLE get into anime and force themselves to watch as if its some kind of assignment... theres a whole fucking world out there and all kinds of shit to do and all these mfs wanna do is watch something and complain about it what do i do when something doesn't interest me? i don't watch or i drop it..... and i don't even give it attention..... Finally the hamster filthy casual has spoken something constructive. I'm still waiting for you to convert me Hamster-kun. ill declare my all out war official when im not tired af staying up when i have work super early xD i hope you like your eggs scrambled |
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| Not only are those ecchi and moe shows important for the existence of elitist shows, sometimes they can even rival them. Shirabako, Barakamon, and Full Moon wo Sagashite are all amazing anime that are also very cute. Bakemonogatari is considered to be one of the best anime despite being an ecchi harem. They are not killing the industry nor are they healing class anime only there to financially support the "real anime", they are both important parts of the anime industry. |
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kamisama751 said: Yes, those moe, echi things sell more and are the profit for the indutry. And then? They are mostly still poor in quality and there is nothing wrong at criticizing them. I've never been against criticizing ecchi/moe/loli/whatever... I am against saying that they are killing anime or that anime in general is bad due to ecchi/moe/loli... I personally don't like mecha, shoujo, josei, melodrama, and purely romance anime. But I'm not the one making threads saying those anime are ruining the industry. By all means though....if MALers want to continue making threads like that...it'll just encourage more shitposting, which is more than fine by me. :) |
Goofs said: well, the reason they created that cycle in the first place is because previously, a lot of studios were really struggling and bankruptcy was around every corner. every show they made might have been their last. nobody wants to work under that kind of stress, wondering if the show they're making will lose them their job and prevent them from working in the industry again. this was especially true after Japan's economic crisis. if they kept taking risks making high budget, creative shows that maybe only a few people at the time would appreciate and made nothing else, most of the current studios that have been around for a while just wouldn't exist. Manglobe tried it and went bankrupt, for example so you see, they started the cycle really because they had no choice if they wanted to make consistent enough money to stay afloat and pay everyone what they need having an industry full of Manglobes going bankrupt, then the employees creating more studios that go bankrupt is just unsustainable Believe me, I understand that. Still, couldn't you argue that such was the nature of the business; or any other business that relies on people taking in interest in your particular creative expression? Even if the industry had remained in that age between early and mid 2000's I still think it's preferable then to the one now. Yes, the odds of business failing would be more frequent and the overall number of shows would be lower, but there still be that sense of exploration and awe that many of the older fans are so nostalgic about. I believe at the end of the day the studios who are still there are truly the ones who understand Anime and the passion rooted in it's history. I agree from a business sense that the torrent of these type of shows can only mean the industry is booming. I think it's the surprise and dissociation from the longer and older viewers that the current state of Anime is so heatedly discussed. They became fans because Anime filled that void of mature storytelling in cartoons that wasn't being done anywhere else. It seem to be pushing boundaries and making strides that animation hadn't seen before and did so until the late 2000's. When all of the sudden the industry embraced the lower caste of storytelling and started pandering whichever market was hottest at the time. I, and many others, just didn't see the industry that dared to explore and tackle the unknown of animation suddenly turn the other cheek and embrace meritocracy. |
LordLagannJul 25, 2016 11:36 PM
PatheticRanger said: Where fanservice/moe helps to sustain anime but also takes up and reduces the amount of other kinds of anime that gets produced. No, more moe shows does not mean less of other shows. I don't know why people get this idea, it' doesn't make any sense. It's like saying "I don't like superhero movies, because these days there are so many superhero movies that it reduces the amount of girly romantic comedies". The two have nothing in common. There are less of "non-moe" anime because they don't make enough money that's all. The successs of moe objectively only helps the industry, and it's not the otaku's fault if other shows are not profitable. Just look at Kyoto Animation; the huge success of moe shows like Haruhi and K-On! allowed them to produce Nichijou, a high-budget and critically acclaimed comedy anime that was not relying on moe. And it was a commercial failure. Ironically, a good non-moe anime was produced thank to the moe fans, and it was never followed up because of the lack of support from the other fans. Fans who seems to be more concerned about ranting on what doesn't exist than supporting what exists. |
YarrowiaJul 26, 2016 12:06 AM
As the video said, it's not that the best anime of today are worse than the best anime of the past. It argues that the ratio of good to bad is becoming worse. To this, my answer is - "anime becomes more diverse". It means there more anime is made that is not meant for you (regardless of who "you" are). And that is a good thing. Goofs said: by late night anime, I'm guessing you mean what I meant by "elite" shows? because Monster, Nana, Nodame and stuff are all the type of shows I like, lol I've heard that pretty much all anime that are popular in the West are "late night anime". More mainstream time is filled with more mainstream anime - kiddy action shows like big 3, other long-runners like Sazae-san and Doraemon, magical girl anime meant for actual girls... @mdo7 - the trick is, Japanese are isolationist and xenophobic. They will never depend on worldwide audience even if they have to commit seppuku. They don't even try to sell anime to non-japanese - it's american people who have to wrangle the rights to distribute them anywhere. (I probably exaggerated it a bit here) That said, we like anime because it is not like western entertainment. So it's alright that it stays the way it is. |
| just because that's what the otaku wants doesn't mean it is good most of the staff lack imagination to creating compelling story and interesting characters so they put moe in everything |
| It is so dense. Every single image has so many things going on. |
| @flannan Yes, I know most Anime aren't original in of themselves and came from other mediums. The same logic still applies when in an industry growing in size there needs to be enough supply to meet the demands. After cultivating the mindset that moeblobs and other such shows are the quickest and easiest way to fame and fortune it's no surprise everything associated with Anime followed suit. Since most shows are promotional works for the original material you could argue that this mindset has spread further then what we see on the screen. It's not that all the good stuff has been done but rather the medium and the source material it draws upon are both equally being filled with third rate stories that pander to the lowest common denominator. I'd say more on the digital novels and print side then anything else. |
| @umashikaneko Yeah I was responding to you, sorry about that. Since Manga requires publication I understand why it's still not as commonplace there. The argument still stands as more people are involved with Anime the more are from the younger audiences that think the industry standard is K-on or Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei. When in actuality it's just a quick cash grab or something of the sort to hold studios over for a real project. I've seen Genshikin and it was a cool show. Didn't feel like the latter half of the story lived up to the original male oriented narrative because it seems like that was also trying to reflect the new generation and it's sensibilities. Maybe because I'm not female, or because I'm a dinosaur, but it wasn't as interesting without the original cast. I accept that it's not the pace of which solid shows are produce that's dropping but the ratio in which it's seen. The youth seems content with moeblobs and such as the staple go to genre instead of it being a hold over for something legitimately worth-wild. Not to take away anything from those shows but I feel it's become too one sided. |
| @umashikaneko More or less, which is pretty much what the video was about. The current Anime climate exist because there's a demand for it, a demand superficially imposed by the industry itself in order to become economically sustainable in the mist of an every growing audience. It's tough because business wise it's really the sensible thing to do but as a medium that pushed the boundaries of animation through mature themes and diverse narratives was it really right? I said before I'm all about quality over quality. I still think there's still a lot that can be explored but having so many shows that reinforce the notion that Anime is nothing but cliche protagonist, lazy writing, and fanservice it's no wonder why so many people are on full doomsday mode. |
| I don't give a fuck about fanservice, ecchi and this kind of shit, i don't hate them, i completely ignore them. |
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| Well, that was an interesting video I started out in the so called "golden age" although I was just a little kid back then but as I grew older, I got into more and more titles and more and more genres. I like both the shows with fanservice and those without it Ofc there are some genres that I still can't and won't ever get into such as Yaoi and there are also genres that I have come to hate such as episodic monster of the week shows Oh, I'm also still not a big fan of mecha even after finding some that I really liked, I still find myself dropping the majority of them, heck I have a hard time even starting them |
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| Maybe if not a braidead monkey write the ecchis "storyline", and not using template characters, and airhead girls (khm, to-love-ru), and start making good ecchis (Prison School).. Then maybe, just maybe I will stop hating ecchi/harem trash. |
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Mamster-P said: however i won't agree because i know for sure one of them is at least a partial shitposter and the other just feels so damn bad about himself that he feels the only way to bring himself up is to talk all this shit and act superior Well I'll just say this: People who talk the most shit, do the least shit. You'll know this especially if you've subjected yourself to the fighting game community or speedrunning community at all. On topic: That video is still biased as fuck, because it assumes that "moe" is automatically a bad thing. |
| more money for studios. i dont see an issue |
| moe and fanservice is the savior of the anime industry, deal with it |
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Goofs said: well, when there's no one to buy blu-rays or merchandise, anime will probably die. how else can the studios support themselves? they sure can't on Crunchyroll alone. not having domestic buyers doesn't suddenly make international fans a better source of money. the money we put into it is almost nothing. after all, the average anime fan in America is poor I doubt anime will die anytime soon though. just because the current buyers will one day die or move on doesn't mean there won't be more hardcore anime fans in Japan to replace them. people in Japan have a lot of free spending money, they have the lowest poverty rate in the world despite their economy being in decline as for J-Pop and J-dramas not being promoted outside of Japan, that's also up to fans who buy. J-Pop stars have a lot of fan events and merchandise geared towards Japanese with lots of spending money, international fans don't usually do that to the same extent with Japanese musicians, so it's the same issue as with anime, and J-dramas are usually actor vehicles to promote aspiring celebrities to appear on more TV shows and talk shows and have their managers sell things like pictures of themselves Japan's media seems to be just sticking to formulas that worked for them in the past and don't really want to change unless they have to Although you are correct on your assessment. I'm afraid the anime industry may face the same type decline that Hong Kong film industry is going through today. Are you familiar with how famous Hong Kong films used to be back in the 70's and 80's until HK was given back to Mainland China: Hong Kong Cinema Survives Where Survival Is Success Hong Kong’s film industry struggling to regain the fame as China enters the limelight Lack of Successors, Shift to Mainland Chinese Market to Blame for Decline of Hong Kong Movie Industry Although HK film industry decline for different reason, I'm afraid anime industry may face this same type of industry decline that HK film industry is going through. I highly doubt HK film industry will be able to get it's golden year back because South Korea is overshadowing everything. About J-pop, well a lot of fans are frustrated because of the accessibility issues unlike K-pop. Again I don't want to go off topic but I think you may want to read these: Onehallyu blog: JAPANESE ENTERTAINMENT 101: ACCESSIBILITY ANN's Answerman-Why is it so tough to buy Japanese digital media downloads? Meanwhile K-pop is continuing to make headlines outside of Asia like for example, Itunes USA Stores few month ago already created a dedicated section for it. And to add to the insult, a lot of international J-pop fans feel like their being stigmatized/demonized and some are blaming K-pop for that. Regarding what you said about J-dramas, yeah I will agree with you on that. But what really frustrate international fans is that there's lack of J-drama catalog on streaming sites like Dramafever and Viki. I mean read these: Why doesn't DramaFever Add more Japanese Dramas? Is it that hard to license/get J-Dramas? So yes that is making some fans of other aspect of Japanese pop culture not very happy that Korean pop culture are overshadowing and getting more attention. Akeno_Misaki said: mdo7 said: But my point: Sooner or later Japan's anime industry has got to take the international audiences more seriously. In reality they don't care even for hundreds of years until their economy died. Japanese people think that International Anime Audience are like Mosquito of Anime Industry. Yes, it's a sad truth. It's no wonder why Korean pop culture are winning more audiences around the world. It's because they take their international fandoms more seriously then the anime industry not caring about the international fandom. flannan said: @mdo7 - the trick is, Japanese are isolationist and xenophobic. They will never depend on worldwide audience even if they have to commit seppuku. They don't even try to sell anime to non-japanese - it's american people who have to wrangle the rights to distribute them anywhere. (I probably exaggerated it a bit here) That said, we like anime because it is not like western entertainment. So it's alright that it stays the way it is. Well the same can be said about Korean TV dramas and yet they have a larger international audiences then anime fandom. I mean I'm not making this up: Source 1 Source 2 Source 3 Source 4 So you're right about Japanese don't care about the international fans. I mean has the Japanese government ever ask or do a international survey on how many or how big is the anime fandom? Because I can't find any information on that when the Korean government seem to care about the international K-pop/Hallyu fanbases. katsucats said: Moral of the story is: Don't blame the studios. Blame otaku culture. Demand creates supply, not the other way around. This I agreed. But I also blame the production committee system for hampering and restricting creativity and innovation in the industry. As I said, back in the 70's and 80's the anime industry had more creative freedom then today. |
kamisama751 said: You said: moe and fanservice is the savior of the anime industry, deal with it Better die with good quality instead of living with bad quantity. "Good quality" is like horison. You never reach it, it's always a few kilometers ahead. See also: Sturgeon's Law. |
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