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| The ep was somewhat lacking in intensity, but I enjoyed it overall. Conclusion : you can get screwed over even after death. 5/5 |
JetNoirJan 17, 2015 11:39 AM
| Imagine a berserk anime by Yoshiaki kawajiri at Madhouse. Now take a look at Berserk (2016). YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION TO CRY. |
| I really love how this second episode made for so much talk on morality in the forums. However, I think several points should be pointed out. First, the one who mentioned about the cheating being only a one-time thing was the girl who doesn't have access to the memories, the assistant. The fact that the Arbiter did not deny or agree with her gives absolutely no information away as to whether or not that suggestion of "only one time" was true or not. This is also true about whether the gossiped "Matchy" was or was not actually Machiko as well. Onna put in a fair bit of doubt into Decim's judgement by saying that it was her woman's intuition that the wife was lying in the end to save her husband. Whilst that may have been true about the wife wanting to save her husband's soul after both of them have passed, it really has no correlation about whether or not this wife had been a serial-cheating skank before she had died. In fact, the fact that she had even cheated once should be put under scrutiny considering if she had really truly been in love with her husband (I'll come back to this point later). Second, the speculation that the woman was cheating because she was unhappy was pure speculation on the part of one of our forumers here. There were no flashbacks indicating that the husband neglected her, only that he was internally suspicious of her when she was on the phone texting someone else when they were in the same bed. Nor were there any flashbacks that showed that he had mistreated her in any way. Third, does anyone else but me find it strange about the timeline of things? First, Machiko agrees to marry the love of her life, then at the wedding reception the husband first gets word about a cheating skank married to a Doctor but with another man on the side. After this, the husband then gets suspicious and internally frustrated at his wife (note that they never mentioned that he neglected or mistreated his wife at this point in time). Que the flashback of his wife in bed with another man, looking regretful, but at the same time with a wedding band on her finger, which all culminates to his request to answer her phone on their way to the Honeymoon which resulted in them both plunging to their deaths in the accident. The timeline of those events don't make sense to me at all. If she was so in love with her husband when he asked for her hand in marriage and was happy with him all the way up to the wedding, why would she cheat on him between the wedding and the honeymoon? I doubt the period in between would be long enough for some huge argument to crop up, and if the argument was serious enough to trigger her to cheat on him, then I highly doubt they would even go on the honeymoon in the first place until they solved said problem first (which did not happen). The only conclusion I can garner from this is that Onna's deduction was correct only on the part that the wife wanted to save her husband's soul in the end (be it because of guilt, or because she realized in her memories that she truly loved him, or was manipulated into it by the arbiters [I'll come back to this later on..]), whether her speculation on what had happened when both of them had been alive was correct was an entirely different matter (You all seem to have forgotten that Nona was actually quite disappointed with her when she got out of the lift). I think what you all have to remember is that the situation which the couple had been put into was meant to test exactly how redeemable their souls were. The entire situation was set up so that both the husband and wife could be potentially at each others throats, or not, depending on how they would react to the situation. Onna was correct in that Machiko lied in the end to get a reaction from her husband, but since neither husband nor wife knew the requirements for void/reincarnation, Machiko's lie could be seen as either: 1.) as Onna said, to make the husband resent her and lessen his feelings of guilt in killing (presumably) their child, or 2.) to get a reaction out of the husband, exactly like the one which resulted (he tried to attack her), and to paint herself in the better light so as to avoid the heavier judgment. Someone who may be a romantic would think (1), most likely, whilst a realist may expect (2). However, in this situation, a third option exists: 3.) The facts of the matter was that neither husband nor wife had any ideas that the arbiter did in fact have a copy of their memories beforehand (how could they, when they themselves didn't remember anything), and both the husband and the wife's memories were "selectively" given back to them during the course of their little "game". These memories were recovered only because the arbiters allowed them to recover them (Nona mentioned this to Onna when they were observing), however we don't know the true extent of the memories recovered now do we? Machiko recovered her memories of her love for her husband, her affair as well as her guilt of cheating on him. If Machiko had truly believed everything that Decim had said, then she would also believe that admitting to her guilt of cheating and then lying about the unborn child not being her husbands would actually save her husband's soul (if she lied about anything, she never expected the arbiters to know beforehand + she didn't know the judgment criteria). Personally, I believe that the entire situation with the memories were all rigged in order to see just how dark the pits of human souls can be. Regardless of what happened during their lives, I also believe that Machiko's true nature was that she would rather protect the true love of her life (as she saw it in her recovered memories) selflessly instead of saving herself, whereas the husband was only able to build up his mistrust of her without any evidence whatsoever, even up till the moment they died (disregarding the fact that his suspicious were correct), and could not rise above it and refused to forgive/protect her even in death showed that his soul was darker than hers. Decim did make a mistake in the end by taking things at face value, but considering that he held all of the husband AND the wife's memories, what's to say that what the wife was saying in the end wasn't actually true, and Decim made a judgment based on memories+false reactions instead of truly observing the true nature of the two people in the end? After all that's said, though, even though Decim messed up his judgment on the darkness of the couples soul and on who should have been saved, I still believe that it is entirely possible that the wife was a serial-cheating skank before they died. There is a decidedly lack of evidence that really proves one truth or the other, and unless the director or the author of the story comes out to explain it, I feel like this will never truly be solved and that us fans can only choose to believe the truth that we want to believe. Okay. Apologies for the long rant, all these thought seemed very short when they were stuck in my head... |
L-RyoshiJan 17, 2015 12:27 PM
HESTIA   APPROVES |
| Decim is solely responsible on dealing where goes where, but shouldn't the "assistant" and Decim be able to communicate before the final decision is made in the future? |
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| It's good to have an explanation ep once in a while. Seems like the choice was rather controverial, but I like how this show is keeping the forum in an uproar and making it more alive. |
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| Hell ya! I called that shit from a mile away! *pats self on back* I thought I posted it on MAL forums, but apparently it didn't post but I posted my prediction form last episode on the CR forums: http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-873033/death-parade-tv-series-anticipation-and-discussion?pg=7#48962375 I'm glad I ended up being right about the wife!!! Anyways, the black haired girl has a lot of potential and is good at reading people. Also the white haired girl is interesting as well. I also liked how it showed Decim feeling bad that he messed up, so it seems like even the judges can make mistakes. Though, the wife got what she wanted, she saved her husband. She really did love him. |
LoomyTheBrewJan 17, 2015 11:56 AM
| Seems like i'm one of the few who don't share the enthusiasm. Most of the episode was hardly necessary, everything up until the cheating part wasn't actually hard to figure out, though i'm glad we found out she really did cheat. Seems like both were at fault for their deaths. Wonder what's the white-haired girl's story... 3/5 |
~||Sky of the Night Light||~  |
EarlCiel said: Tell me about it. I'm almost convinced that at least half of them never even experienced a situation like this first hand beforeTokoya said: My point exactly Everyone makes mistakes. Cheating is a mistake. In the end, we learned that she still loved him enough to sacrifice herself. So...like, honestly, people who are saying it's okay to destroy a soul for cheating is denying her love and saying it''s okay to condemn people for all of eternity...just for making a mistake. Some people have their heads screwed on the wrong way. |
| This is a pretty fascinating show. It seems to me that these games are not just meant as a means of judging the two playing, but also to shed some light on those doing the judging. I think this show is more going to be about the arbiters and their story -- how they got here, why they're there, why is it not a big deal if they fuck up and destroy an innocent soul, etc. I'm getting a very Haibane Renmei-esque purgatory story vibe from this whole set up, and it's obvious that there's more to this world than meets the eye. We'll just have to see what's being hidden. Of course, I could be wildly off base with this; the show might really just be about a shitty arbiter needing a more empathetic assistant so he doesn't fuck his judgments up anymore. Regardless, it's still a masterful premise, as it allows -- hell, it fucking encourages -- for the audience to actively engage with what's happening on screen. We judge while they judge, and in turn judge them depending on how they judge. In the end, their verdict is a reflection of their natures and selves -- the same could be said for us. Just looking at the myriad differing responses to these episodes, each says a lot about the person saying them. Maybe that's what this is really all about: revealing things about ourselves we never knew, and challenging our own worldviews with those differing. In a way, we, the audience are the ones on trial here. Seriously, fascinating stuff. |
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| Nona is my new waifu |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
| The first two-thirds of the episode felt uneccesary. In my opinion there was no point explaining everything as pretty much everything that was said could have been inferred from the first episode. The only new info we got was that the arbiters receive the memories of the people who died. |
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| Nice episode. I am glad they spent time to explain the details. Only thing that I wonder now is why people who die at the same time? Why doe's only one get to get reincarnated? or can both be? Are those who die alone judged in a different department? xD As for the episode, could they not tell if she was having a full on affair from the memories? or was the vague jumble of memories they receive only enough to show she spent time with another man, even if only briefly? Well the anime is very interesting. the darts really got to me, I fear what other sick games are to come... |
"When everyone else is about to give up, the fighter who becomes the role model, is the true Leader."  |
| hmm didnt see anything like this in Death Billards. Interesting how Decim seems to be subordinate to Nona. |
~my list
| So it was precisely the way I thought last time, it was only act she did and his insecurity was to blame for what happened. It was good to have this backstage view but I don't think it was really needed to explain the obvious. Did we really needed that spoon-feeding? Well, at least we got three new characters... |
| This episode showed what happened behind the scene in the first, it was good to clarify important points of history, as well as raise hypotheses about the outcome taken I liked seeing that judges are not absolute and can commit failures, demonstrates how to judge people is not easy The ED matches the somber mood of the anime, but the OP is excellent, I already dare say that may be the best OP of the season, I'm already looking forward to the next episode .. |
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| Quite interesting how the Void is not actually Hell per se but tied to the atheist view of death. As such, it's not actually that bad since most atheist accept the Void already as death itself. As for reincarnation, it seems eerily familiar to the concept in Buddhism. World Soul Balance issues aside with this system, I hope this series does a good job in the future at presenting good cases. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| Hmm so Decim misjudged the situation and caused the girl to went to void! They should have corrected his mistake not only pointing it |
| In all honesty, half of what they've said has been already interpreted from the audience. There was way too much spoonfeeding. However, it's nice to point out how they've set up the characters to even have potential character development. Decim making mistakes, realizing mistakes. I see potential strong characterization. Impressed. 4/5 |
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| The amount of reused scenes this episode is ridiculous, surely peoples memories aren't that sh*t as to warrant all of those recaps. Hopefully that will be the last of it. I'm not impressed, but will give it another episode. Pretty average series so far. |
| That was really great. The truth is exactly like everyone thought it would be. I could listen to that OP for hours on end. It's so good. |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
| A behind the scenes look at the first episode. Basically the whole point of this was to let us know mistakes can be made. |
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| So, its all one big misunderstanding. The OP is still misleading xD too cheerful. |
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| sick i guess thereis some explanation but wonder where they're gona take this stuff |
"Urushibara Ruka. The mannerisms and voice of a woman... No... More feminine than any woman. But he's a guy. Taller than Mayuri, but so very thin... But he's a guy. Looks great in a miko outfit... But he's a guy. It's already twilight And yet, it's so hot. The cicadas are crying. But... He's a guy." |
| one of the songs in this episode was really really cool so far so good :D |
Comic_Sans said: Nona is my new waifu |
| Powerful eyebrows. |
capnios said: I'm a little confused with the timeline and I'm not sure if it's just because Japanese people do things differently or if it's because I'm too slow to catch on. Isn't it usually the case that immediately after getting married, couples go on their honeymoon?
I wonder how Machiko found the time between the wedding ceremony and the trip to the honeymoon to find a man to sleep with. And what drove her to that point in such a short amount of time – and after a wedding, no less? Like I mentioned earlier, we don't see Takashi acting out on his jealousy until the accident, so what happened? Are you sure it's a wedding ring she's wearing and not an engagement ring? |
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| Another amazing episode. I really liked that plot twist and hearing Onna's perspective on it. Nona's really cute although she's definitely a bossy little badass lol she was not happy about Onna making Decim realize he made a mistake... Can't wait for next episode, the bowling game should be interesting! |
| Nona is lovely |
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| I really enjoyed the "reverse" perspective of this episode. One of the better introductions to a universe I've seen recently. Nona has captivated me. Tokoya said: EarlCiel said: Tell me about it. I'm almost convinced that at least half of them never even experienced a situation like this first hand beforeEveryone makes mistakes. Cheating is a mistake. In the end, we learned that she still loved him enough to sacrifice herself. So...like, honestly, people who are saying it's okay to destroy a soul for cheating is denying her love and saying it''s okay to condemn people for all of eternity...just for making a mistake. Some people have their heads screwed on the wrong way. Or we just understand the concept of marriage vows which is arguably one of the strongest convents between a man and a women (in this case) let one between the couple and God (if you believe so). That said something like cheating on your husband may not be a forgivable event considering they are newlyweds and don't have a ton of tangible, vested interests in their marriage aside from "love". I think individuals like yourself and your agreeable peers need to reflect on the level on insult cheating ie being unfaithful imparts onto a marriage. I'm not married and I can understand the degree of betrayal one must feel given the situation this character was in. I will go on to say being unfaithful is a calculated "mistake". |
IZEROIIJan 17, 2015 9:05 PM
jimjameswhatever said: The void is not really "hell" or even that bad if you think about it. The void is simply your soul being "lost forever" but it doesn't mean your consciousness will be wandering around in a dark pit for the rest of eternity. It's not much different from an atheist view of death, you die and you don't come back. Shit, I can live with that, pun not intended. In fact, what makes reincarnation so much better anyways? What makes living another life as someone else (and being none the wiser about the fact that you just got reincarnated) something to be desired? Are certain aspects of one's soul retained during reincarnation? If that were the case, maybe I would believe that reincarnation is better than being sent to the void. If not, then you would think that after a few "generations" of being reincarnated, every single soul would eventually be sent to the void. I was actually going to mention this, but good thing I read your post :) I said something about how heaven and hell may not necessarily mean it the way we think it does (since most people are reminded of the Christian heaven and hell) in another thread. I also said something in line with that they may have used the words "heaven" and "hell" when talking to Takashi and Machiko because those are the words they would be more familiar with, rather than having them being confused by "reincarnation" or "void." And that's what they said in this episode, that they're similar in idea but not quite; so many religions/belief systems/mythologies have a positive and negative place where you end up in the afterlife, but we just use the words that's most similar in our own language. Which is why I feel people should not think of reincarnation and void as equivalent to heaven and hell. Though I guess seeing Nona's reaction to Decim "wrongly" judging about Machiko and Takashi's destinations, the series right now seems to be portraying reincarnation as the positive and the void as the negative. But this is also where I don't agree with Nona's (and maybe everyone else in the anime's world) view; that the void is the bad. If the void isn't a place where you still have consciousness, it's no different from your soul being reincarnated, since like you said, "you" or "your" soul rather, is living a different life where the previous life has no connection with it whatsoever. The soul isn't "yours" anymore, "you" no longer exist. Unless you are one of those who believes that what constitutes the personal identity is the soul and not the memories and experiences...but then that leads to argument on personal identity, though my main point is that imo, it wouldn't matter if my soul went to the void since being lost forever doesn't sound like it would affect me negatively unlike suffering in Hell or having my consciousness wander forever as jimjameswhatever mentioned. Anyways, at this point in time with only 2 episodes out, I don't think that's near the main point. They may have just wanted to make a system of positive and negative places in the afterlife for the soul, and the negative place they came up with was the void in which your soul gets lost forever. Unless they elaborate more on the void, it seems to me that the void isn't all that bad. However if everyone sees the void as the bad place to go to in DP's world, then I would just ignore my personal opinion and watch it with the idea that reincarnation=good and void=bad. Though I think it would be nice if someone in the anime could challenge that view, and that the series isn't just about how not even arbiters are perfect/no perfect judgement (Decim), opposing values (Nona vs. Decim vs. Onna vs. whoever), and human nature. Though it would be fun too just to watch characters' opinions clash. |
IZEROII said: IIRC, this couple was on their honeymoon when they died which usually takes place a few days if not the day after marriage, so she cheated on him before they got marriedI really enjoyed the "reverse" perspective of this episode. One of the better introductions to a universe I've seen recently. Nona has captivated me. Tokoya said: Tell me about it. I'm almost convinced that at least half of them never even experienced a situation like this first hand before Or we just understand the concept of marriage vows which is arguably one of the strongest convents between a man and a women (in this case) let one between the couple and God (if you believe so). That said something like cheating on your husband may not be a forgivable event considering they are newlyweds and don't have a ton of tangible, vested interests in their marriage aside from "love". I think individuals like yourself and your agreeable peers need to reflect on the level on insult cheating ie being unfaithful imparts onto a marriage. I'm not married and I can understand the degree of betrayal one must feel given the situation this character was in. I will go on to say being unfaithful is a calculated "mistake". Clearly this woman loves this man and only wants him in her life but with that being said, why would a woman like this go out of her way and sleep with another man? It's because the guy himself is very selfish and extremely paranoid (which in itself are terrible qualities to have especially for a spouse). Everything that happened was his fault. Like I said before, her cheating on him was wrong too but at the end of the day when you take a good look at this man, she deserved better (Yet she still chose him in the end and that says a lot about her character). What annoys me is that some people are condemning the woman without even understanding the full story I'm not going to repeat what I said earlier but forgiveness is also encouraged in some religions as well. The guy was too much of a hot mess as well so he will never find happiness because that's just his nature...This outcome was inevitable even if she didn't cheat |
TokoyaJan 17, 2015 10:04 PM
| Wow.. to think that human's after life fate is decided by whether they get a competent arbiter or not. Some other couple in the next few days might be lucky enough to get the new girl as arbiter and both be sent for reincarnation -___- For an anime that deals with after life consequences in life, it sure is contradicting itself. It raises a lot of fundamental questions (such as the arbiters themselves, the existence of that place, the method of judgement, etc) as much as it's trying to make the viewers think for themselves. In the end I doubt even the author would have the answer to these questions, he/she probably didn't even think that far. |
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Tokoya said: IZEROII said: IIRC, this couple was on their honeymoon when they died which usually takes place a few days if not the day after marriage, so she cheated on him before they got marriedI really enjoyed the "reverse" perspective of this episode. One of the better introductions to a universe I've seen recently. Nona has captivated me. Or we just understand the concept of marriage vows which is arguably one of the strongest convents between a man and a women (in this case) let one between the couple and God (if you believe so). That said something like cheating on your husband may not be a forgivable event considering they are newlyweds and don't have a ton of tangible, vested interests in their marriage aside from "love". I think individuals like yourself and your agreeable peers need to reflect on the level on insult cheating ie being unfaithful imparts onto a marriage. I'm not married and I can understand the degree of betrayal one must feel given the situation this character was in. I will go on to say being unfaithful is a calculated "mistake". Clearly this woman loves this man and only wants him in her life but with that being said, why would a woman like this go out of her way and sleep with another man? It's because the guy himself is very selfish and extremely paranoid (which in itself are terrible qualities to have especially for a spouse). Everything that happened was his fault. Like I said before, her cheating on him was wrong too but at the end of the day when you take a good look at this man, she deserved better (Yet she still chose him in the end and that says a lot about her character). What annoys me is that some people are condemning the woman without even understanding the full story I'm not going to repeat what I said earlier but forgiveness is also encouraged in some religions as well. The guy was too much of a hot mess as well so he will never find happiness because that's just his nature...This outcome was inevitable even if she didn't cheat Your argument is flawed. The ring was on the marriage finger, not the engagement finger. There is no evidence at all that the cheating occurred before the wedding took place, whereas the evidence points to the cheating taking place AFTER they got married. Also, the man's paranoia only started up after the wedding ceremony, meaning that they were all lovey-dovey before and during, if anything had changed to make the wife feel neglected/unloved (i.e. cause her to cheat), it would occur only after the wedding. By your standards, it's okay for a woman to cheat on a man, so long as it's before their marriage, she doesn't tell anyone about it, AND she's repentant for it? That's some seriously messed up logic if you ask me. If the wife had cheated and not come clean about it before the wedding, even if she was repentant about it, that would make her indiscretion even worse. First, if she loved this man, why cheat on him? Second, if she cheated on him for no good reason, why still get married to him? Third, if she was really feeling that repentant and guilty, why not tell him about the cheating BEFORE getting married to him? Instead she just zipped her mouth and hid everything from him, even until after they died. I don't see any of her actions, assuming that you were right in saying it happened before they got married, as being repentant or asking for forgiveness. If she was really feeling so remorseful about the entire situation, she would have owned up to her mistake instead of trying to hide things. It's because she was trying to hide that past lover who was trying to call her that they ended up dead. If they had talked things through before the honeymoon, none of this would have happened, Granted they probably would have ended up unhappily divorced, but that's still better than being dead. Don't just put the blame on the man's inability to trust. She was equally guilty, if not guiltier in causing the situation that led to their deaths. |
HESTIA APPROVES |
| Meh.... |
lejon_brames said: Any person who cheats on a spouse belongs in hell or the void or any other form of eternal damnation. The husband was not at fault at all, even his paranoia was justified in the end. I didn't realize that the "women deserve no blame if they feel bad about their actions" mentality existed in Japan too. both were in the wrong even the husband but really... if i were to choose i'll say the husband should have went to the void instead. Comparing the wife's cheating(and the regret she felt for the decision she made) and her husband's ugly personality, which soul would be for suitable for reincarnation? One which actions could have been prevented or the other who cannot trust? |
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| maybe the after-life system is based off how the world generally sees it: heaven & hell. well, that's one thing to look forward to when our time comes. thinking like this makes dealing with death a lil more manageable. |
| anime and opening of this season for me. |
| current LN reading: Death March kara hajimaru isekai kyousoukyoku translated here for those who are interested in other forums about animes, check randomc.net, reddit.com/r/anime and forum.animesuki.com |
| i KNEW IT...I just couldnt accept that wasn't an act. That was a really nice episode though...that animation was spectacular. Looking forward to more |
| Ah so my guess was right. Totally had the same hunch as that girl(though I thought the woman had a different reason for her behavior). Wait. What? They made a mistake and then that's just it? Not even trying to correct that mistake? |
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