Girls und Panzer Episode 9 Discussion

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Sep 2012

10121

Jyuu-niDesu said:
Anyways the Type-3 Chi Nu makes it's appearance in a Parking lot?.

Well, they clearly drew inspiration from this:

This is the Type-3 Chi Nu displayed on the exhibition park inside the compound of the Japanese Self-Defense Force Camp Tutiura ( http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9C%9F%E6%B5%A6%E9%A7%90%E5%B1%AF%E5%9C%B0 ) in Ibaraki prefecture that is not far from Ooarai.

And my guess of the label stuck on the front of the Type-3 Nu is "This place is not for dumping of bulky rubbish!!" LOL

symbvDec 15, 2012 5:45 AM

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 15, 2012 7:28 AM

#202

zenjamibu

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May 2012

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It's official. Girls und Panzer episode 10.5 will be airing on Dec. 24 and the last episode for now and episode 11 & 12 will be aired around spring 2013.

http://girls-und-panzer.at.webry.info/201212/article_15.html

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/mizshima1941

Hope someone can translate this to be more clear.

Dec 15, 2012 7:47 AM

#203

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Oct 2012

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symbv said:
While there may be legitimate criticism of the Chinese government about their using anti-Japanese sentiment, such sentiment is real and strong in many places of China.

I could talk about such things all day, but you are right this isn't the proper forum. As final words on it, just wanted to make clear that I firmly understand the rage that many East Asians feel towards Japan and my comments were by no means to de-legitimize that rage. That said, stoking Nationalistic feelings is a very dangerous movement through ALL of East Asia, and those who do it for political gain (similar to those in Europe who raise the "hate nazi" banner as a weapon against their German Debt) would be wise to remember the Balkans before opening that box. And yes, this applies to the Japanese as well as even the United States.

Dec 15, 2012 7:48 AM

#204

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zenjamibu said:
http://girls-und-panzer.at.webry.info/201212/article_15.html
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/mizshima1941
Hope someone can translate this to be more clear.

Key points:

http://girls-und-panzer.at.webry.info/201212/article_15.html

The time slot for the last week in this season will have Ep.10.5 『紹介します２！』 (I'd introduce 2) instead. The last two episodes will be broadcast in 2013, tentatively March. This ep.10.5 will be included in BD/DVD vol.5

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/mizshima1941

The director assumes all responsibility of the delay. He attributed the delay to his over optimistic work scheduling and his wish to show as much about the characters and the tanks as possible. He said as a result the number of cuts has jumped up significantly, affecting even ep.10, so ep.10 will be broadcast in less than ideal quality but he promises that it will be fixed in BD/DVD. Since he wants ep.11 and 12 to be shown in best quality so he is planning to take time and thus looking at a March broadcast schedule.

2ch is now comparing the delay of GirlPan with the delay of the last 2 episodes of Madoka.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 15, 2012 8:00 AM

#205

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Oct 2012

6648

zenjamibu said:
It's official. Girls und Panzer episode 10.5 will be airing on Dec. 24 and the last episode for now and episode 11 & 12 will be aired around spring 2013.

http://girls-und-panzer.at.webry.info/201212/article_15.html

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/mizshima1941

Hope someone can translate this to be more clear.

The first says it is currently scheduled to be aired in March, 10.5 will be a second introduction of the characters. The rest is just apologies.

The blog says roughly the same thing, except Mizushima also blames his lapse in editing and that the thought that the quality had dropped too much due to pressures of meeting the time schedules. He mentions that he doesn't believe that episode 12 should be the end of the story, and he hopes that everyone's support will make a continuation possible.

In his defense, the quality in this show has been very high. In most shows around the mid to late part of the season there is an obvious drop in quality, and that hasn't occurred here, and I am sure that to a large part made this delay occur. However, with the problem they had with episode 6 being the fault of one person makes this additional slip more painful.

Though in a strange way, I think this might from a "non-I want it now" perspective work out. Episode 10 is a bridge episode. 11 and 12, like 5 and 6, and 8 and 9 are linked episodes. I would rather NOT know the cliffhanger and see both together, than see the cliffhanger and wait 3 months for the resolution.

Dec 15, 2012 8:14 AM

#206

zenjamibu

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May 2012

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@symbv and @Takuan_Soho: Thanks a lot for translating the important things in those posts.

I know waiting is hard but as long as the quality of those episodes will be intact, it will be worth the wait.

Now I'm looking forward to see the BD version of the series.

zenjamibuDec 15, 2012 8:19 AM

Dec 15, 2012 8:20 AM

#207

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Sep 2012

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I think out of all the shows this season only GirlPan can get away from this kind of disaster. Essentially we are seeing the anime delayed not once but twice, and it is often said that it is absolutely important for the director to deliver the finished episode for broadcast (hence the infamous animation for Bakemonogatari in its broadcast of the later episodes). Even though Mizushima is saying he wants to get ep.11 and 12 absolutely right so he is looking at March broadcast schedule, it is also possible that no good time slot is left from Jan-Mar as the Winter season starts. I believe that only because of the consistently positive view by fans that we are not seeing much of a backlash.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 15, 2012 8:27 AM

#208

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Oct 2012

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Girls und Panzer episode 10.5 will be airing on Dec. 24

I can see serious potential legal problems with that date. I recall there was an episode of B Gata H Kei where one of the characters said, "We have to take our boyfriends to a hotel on December 24th. It's in the Japanese Constitution."

Given that, would it be legal for the boyfriends to watch TV in the hotel room on December 24th?

All I know about Japan is based on watching anime, so I don't know precisely which part of the Japanese Constitution says this. Any legal experts out there?

Dec 15, 2012 8:36 AM

#209

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okanagan said:
Given that, would it be legal for the boyfriends to watch TV in the hotel room on December 24th?

Genshiken has an episode that resolves that problem, quite humorously as well as Saki learns to her regret.

Dec 15, 2012 8:46 AM

#210

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Sep 2012

10121

Nothing special about Dec 24 in Japan except it is Christmas Eve for couples to go out (but there is no Christmas holiday in Japan). Christmas in Japan is a couple thing, never a family thing.

One thing I sense when Mizushima said that he doesn't believe that episode 12 should be the end of the story, he may try to get the story modified for the last 2 episodes to plant hints or plot devices that would allow a smoother continuation of Season 2. If the episodes are really going to be aired only in March (which is indeed really long time from now and the impact to its BD sales is hard to predict) there should be quite a lot of time for such changes to be implemented.

symbvDec 15, 2012 8:51 AM

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 15, 2012 9:19 AM

#211

meimon

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Oct 2012

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So... ep10 would be low quality.. It' s a shame.

Dec 15, 2012 9:27 AM

#212

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meimon said:
So... ep10 would be low quality.. It' s a shame.

Have you seen the preview stills? It looks absolutely lovely, particularly the bloom on Hana's face in the kimono. Once again something to look forward to on the 17th. The only disappointment is that episode 11 won't be shown on the 24th.

It may be a bit of conspiracy thinking on my part, but I am beginning to have the feeling that once it became clear that 12 would be pushed to March instead of January, it was a corporate decision to delay 11 to match 12. There are examples of 2 final episodes being delayed without ill effect (Madoka), but as I pointed out above, to broadcast 11 with a cliff hanger and then tell fans: well wait three months, probably would been asking too much of them, and would make 12 sort of anticlimactic when it did finally come out. This way the can release the finale as a unified whole, taking their time to get it right.

Dec 15, 2012 9:51 AM

#213

めんどくさい

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insan3soldiern said:
Pretty damn awesome I have to say. Loved this battle scene and, yeah, Anzu's tank was particularly great. I guess that kind of strategy is useful in a contest where no ones life is at stake. I actually thought they would get away for a minute, but I'm glad they didn't.

Actually, it's realistic (to an extent) and historical. During the 1941 summer/fall invasion of the Soviet Union the bulk of the German tank forces were made up of vehicles like the Pz38 or Mk III with the 37mm guns. It proved very difficult for the 37mm to hurt the t34 (at the time armed with a 76mm) and all but impossible to hurt the KV-1 (a very heavily armored tank with the same 76mm gun), and the Germans simply had to resort to running right up next to the Soviet tanks in an effort to take them out.

There was an instance of a KV-1 getting behind the German lines (or simply was bypassed) and found its way onto an important supply route (important because it was the only decent road for miles that trucks could use). It sat there for over a day, knocking out anything the Germans brought close enough for it to see, before apparently crew exhaustion allowed the Germans to set up an 88mm flak gun behind it and put two shots through the rear of the turret.

Actually, often the same thing happened during the invasion of France in 1940, though it's not often talked about as much. The British Matilda's were difficult enough, but during the battle of Stonne there was an instance of a French Char B1 bis taking out over a dozen German tanks while taking an estimated 140 hits from German guns without being disabled.

In the book Flame Thrower, about the crews of British Churchill tanks modified to replace the hull machine gun with a flame thrower, there is the 'joke' about how the only way for a Churchill with the 57mm or weak 75mm to take out a King Tiger was for the Churchill to get close enough for the gunner to bounce a round off of the gun mantlet and hoped it ricocheted down into the driver's exit hatch where it might have a chance of penetrating.

As we've discussed elsewhere, during the 1944 campaign in France the Western Allies learned that often to take out a tiger they needed to swarm it with 4 or 5 M4/75 Shermans and hope one could get around it and hit it from behind at under 50 yards.

Often crews cursed with weak guns facing heavily armored opponents found that their only recourse was to get to point black range and hope to hit a weak spot in the armor. Usually the odds of surviving such an encounter were very, very low.

CratexDec 15, 2012 10:03 AM

Dec 15, 2012 9:58 AM

#214

めんどくさい

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For the Germans in France in 1940, it was fortunate that the French and British had few of those heavy tanks and did not know how to use them very well, as well as that the Char 1B bis was difficult to operate and sucked fuel at a prodigious rate. In the Soviet Union in summer/fall of 1941 the T34 was rare and the KV-1 even rarer, and the disruption to the Soviet tank industry by the German advance gave the Germans time to at least start to up - gun their tanks and anti-tank guns. In the mean time, differences in crew training and experience were often the deciding factor, but even then lose rates were high.

CratexDec 15, 2012 10:04 AM

Dec 15, 2012 10:10 AM

#215

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Oct 2012

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Symbv wrote:
Nothing special about Dec 24 in Japan except it is Christmas Eve for couples to go out

At this very moment there must be girls in many parts of Japan who are having their boyfriends tell them, "Oh . . . uh . . . sorry . . . I can't go out with you on December 24th since the Girls und Panzer recap episode is on."

Something else I have often seen on Japanese anime are the "Love Hotels". Apparently, a single hotel may have different rooms decorated with a wide variety of exotic themes. So is it possible to book a room with a TV in the ceiling right above the bed?

Dec 15, 2012 10:36 AM

#216

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Oct 2012

1917

Japan could soon be facing some other challengers besides Korea. The
cartoon industry here in Canada is doing extremely well internationally.

http://www.bwob.ca/profiles/canadian-childrens-cartoons-find-an-international-appeal/

The MLP fans among you should take note that "the 2012 massive hit,
My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, ... was produced in Vancouver,
British Columbia". I recall some interesting earlier posts by some
Girls und Panzer critics suggesting that only "bronies"** like GuP.
**See: www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bronies

okanaganDec 15, 2012 11:12 AM

Dec 15, 2012 11:48 AM

#217

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Sep 2012

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^ Well, My Little Pony is the only legitimate moe cartoon made in the west that young-at-heart adults can enjoy. They should have higher tolerance for moe anime as long as they don't know they like it for its moe (and GuP has tanks).

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 15, 2012 2:03 PM

#218

Onyxthegreat

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Jul 2010

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Oh come on, what a way to leave us hanging!

Such a good episode though. The action was great and the way they used the first person camera was very exciting.

Dec 15, 2012 3:30 PM

#219

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Sep 2012

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zenjamibu said:
It's official. Girls und Panzer episode 10.5 will be airing on Dec. 24 and the last episode for now and episode 11 & 12 will be aired around spring 2013.

http://girls-und-panzer.at.webry.info/201212/article_15.html

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/mizshima1941

Hope someone can translate this to be more clear.

Here's another article about the delay:http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-12-15/girls-and-panzer-delays-episode-no.11-tentatively-until-march

Dec 15, 2012 4:52 PM

#220

Ston3_FreeN7

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Jun 2009

15194

Kind of sucks that this series is taking a hiatus. It makes me wish I'd put it off until it finished airing. Yet, if it improves the episodes I can't really complain.

"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia

Dec 15, 2012 5:53 PM

#221

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Oct 2012

1917

Thanks to AiCon for pointing out that Anime News Network story in English.

I am still scratching my head trying to figure out what to make of the very short and enigmatic tweet that GaruPan Director Tsutomu Mizushima sent out yesterday:

根本的な、私の戦略ミスだ。

I'll make a very amateur attempt to translate it:

My battle strategy was fundamentally in error.

根本的な could mean "fundamental" or "fundamentally", depending on whether the situation calls for an adjective or an adverb. (Basic/basically is another option.) In this case, it is clear that we want to use "fundamentally".

私の simply means "my".

戦略 can be translated as "strategy" and sometimes as "tactics". It could be any kind of strategy, such as a strategy for investing in the stock market.

But take note that 戦 by itself can be combined with other characters to form things like "war" or "warring" or "struggle" or "fight". For example, 戰國時代 is "The Warring States Period". 第二次世界大戦 means "World War II". 戰車 means "tank", i.e. war (戰) chariot (車).

略 can have many different meanings, but in some situations it can carry the connotation of "strategy", "plan" or "scheme".

Symbv pointed out that ミス (pronounced misu) could mean either "miss" or "mistaken".

Was Mizushima-san's choice to use 戦 in his tweet somehow inspired by the battle theme of Girls und Panzer?

I also wonder if this tweet is some kind of callback (i.e. an allusion -- or perhaps even a quote) to a famous utterance of some military leader after losing a battle. Did some well-known general say this?

After a bit of Googling I came up dry.

okanaganDec 15, 2012 6:22 PM

Dec 15, 2012 6:28 PM

#222

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MAL just picked up the story: Girls und Panzer Goes on Hiatus Until March

Dec 15, 2012 6:39 PM

#223

めんどくさい

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I'll just go chew on my carpet for a while. Don't mind me.

Dec 15, 2012 6:41 PM

#224

めんどくさい

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okanagan said:
Did some well-known general say this?

Montgomery?

(Note, that's meant to be a joke)

Dec 15, 2012 6:41 PM

#225

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okanagan said:
Thanks to AiCon for pointing out that Anime News Network story in English.

I am still scratching my head trying to figure out what to make of the very short and enigmatic tweet that GaruPan Director Tsutomu Mizushima sent out yesterday:

根本的な、私の戦略ミスだ。

I'll make a very amateur attempt to translate it:

My battle strategy was fundamentally in error.

No problem okanagan. I'm just as shocked and saddened as everyone here about the news.

I think that the director was rushing the episodes while trying to keep the same high quality of detail that GaruPan is known for. IN the end, it just ruined the timeline for all of us.

Dec 15, 2012 7:02 PM

#226

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Oct 2012

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Cratex, thank you for suggesting Montgomery, even if it was a joke. As far as I know, the
only battle that he ever lost was when George Patton beat him to Messina when they
were both in Sicily. I don't know the exact quote of what Montgomery said when he
found out that Patton had gotten there first!

Dec 15, 2012 7:24 PM

#227

めんどくさい

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okanagan said:
Cratex, thank you for suggesting Montgomery, even if it was a joke. As far as I know, the only battle that he ever lost was when George Patton beat him to Messina when they were both in Sicily.

You don't have to lose to have failed - for instance, one could point to all the failed attacks he made against the German lines during the Normandy battles that he described as "part of his plan" to "write down the German strength" as making excuses - some argue that he was a good one for that sort of thing. Note, I'm not saying he should have won them - just that he shouldn't have tried to make them look like they were his plan. But, personally, as far as I'm concerned he really did blunder, and badly, with the Market Garden offensive he forced on Eisenhower. It delayed the capture of the vital port of Antwerp and due to German damage and mining of the estuary they were able to cause it would take months to get operational once they did capture it. Had the Allies captured Antwerp in September instead they could have been in a FAR better supply situation later that fall. And, in any case, the Market Garden offensive failed, wrecked the British 1st airborne division, and left the allies with a narrow road to nowhere. It was an operational failure and a strategic blunder.

At least, that's my opinion ;)

Dec 15, 2012 7:27 PM

#228

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Cratex said:

okanagan said:
Cratex, thank you for suggesting Montgomery, even if it was a joke. As far as I know, the only battle that he ever lost was when George Patton beat him to Messina when they were both in Sicily.

You don't have to lose to have failed - for instance, one could point to all the failed attacks he made against the German lines during the Normandy battles that he described as "part of his plan" to "write down the German strength" as making excuses - some argue that he was a good one for that sort of thing. Note, I'm not saying he should have won them - just that he shouldn't have tried to make them look like they were his plan. But, personally, as far as I'm concerned he really did blunder, and badly, with the Market Garden offensive he forced on Eisenhower. It delayed the capture of the vital port of Antwerp and due to German damage and mining of the estuary they were able to cause it would take months to get operational once they did capture it. Had the Allies captured Antwerp in September instead they could have been in a FAR better supply situation later that fall. And, in any case, the Market Garden offensive failed, wrecked the British 1st airborne division, and left the allies with a narrow road to nowhere. It was an operational failure and a strategic blunder.

At least, that's my opinion ;)

I agree with everything you said Cratex. I think that Patton also wanted to drive straight towards Germany and end the war sooner, but had to delay the offensive since the Allies couldn't support 2 large offensives at the same time.

Dec 15, 2012 11:46 PM

#229

zenjamibu

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May 2012

381

It's December 16 today.

Happy Birthday, Hana Isuzu! ^_^

Dec 15, 2012 11:50 PM

#230

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Sep 2012

3496

zenjamibu said:
It's December 16 today.

Happy Birthday, Hana Isuzu! ^_^

I didn't even know when her birthday was. LOL

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HANA ISUZU! <3

Dec 16, 2012 12:05 AM

#231

Meruru_Arls

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Apr 2011

488

Now I'm pissed...Fuck Actas!!! Stupid Hiatus!!!

"I left everything I own in One Piece" ~ Gol D. Roger

Dec 16, 2012 12:28 AM

#232

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Sep 2012

3496

Meruru_Arls said:
Now I'm pissed...Fuck Actas!!! Stupid Hiatus!!!

It's not entirely their fault. Blame the director too. He's the one in charge.

Dec 16, 2012 12:42 AM

#233

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Sep 2012

10121

okanagan said:
Symbv pointed out that ミス (pronounced misu) could mean either "miss" or "mistaken".

"Mistake" not "mistaken", and it means "mistake" far more often than "miss".

okanagan said:
Was Mizushima-san's choice to use 戦 in his tweet somehow inspired by the battle theme of Girls und Panzer?

One can imagine that is the case.

symbvDec 16, 2012 12:46 AM

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 16, 2012 3:55 AM

#234

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Sep 2012

10121

I posted a video of the seiyuu of the main cast (Anko Team) singing GirlPan ED at the Ooarai Festival but the video was removed before some could take a look (anyway that post is now gone after the rollback in MAL). I find another video, so wanna share it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra1BxlyOFDY

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 16, 2012 5:12 AM

#235

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Oct 2012

1917

It looks like some fan has taken all of the closing credit sequences and combined them so that we see all five tanks driving along the road together. It is even more fun to watch than the original versions. In case this gets taken down I suggest you enjoy it right away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aluwJqRsfug

Also, ever since the end of that Ankou fish festival in Ooarai there has been an exhibition of Girls und Panzer stuff in the train station. Lots of fans have been visiting Ooarai for what is called a "Pilgrimage to the Holy Land". It turns out that they have created a very elaborate museum there, and some fan made an extremely detailed video of everything on display. It is absolutely fascinating since it shows all kinds of things that go far beyond what we have seen in the show. Unfortunately, there is a bit of camera shake. If I recall correctly, the train company tweeted that this exhibition has now closed, but I am not sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK0c_Y5Fi0k&NR

okanaganDec 16, 2012 5:57 AM

Dec 16, 2012 5:53 AM

#236

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Oct 2012

6648

Cratex said:
At least, that's my opinion ;)

As a military tactician one would be very hard pressed to rank Montgomery as anything above average, he generally had a multitude of advantages which he squandered. Market Garden as you pointed out is a good example, it was a brilliant demonstration of a Nietzsche axiom: "people seldom make a single error, first they do too little, then they do too much." Montgomery was a "too little" commander, who then erred in trying too much. He never found that happy medium.

His greatest victory at El Alamein is a perfect example. Here he had every possible advantage. He greatly outnumbered the Germans, he had the advantage of being on the defensive, of selecting the battle site, and of having ample opportunity to fortify his position. The British had ascendency in both the sea and in the air, forcing Rommel to depend on a long, easily disrupted logistical route, while Montgomery enjoyed short, secure supplies. In addition he had the added bonus of his enemy having particularly inept Italian commanders and demoralized Italian soldiers. Even with all these advantages, the first battle was a near thing.

But what cannot be denied was that Montgomery was the leader that the British needed at that time. First it wasn't like they had particularly good generals, their rout in Europe and Singapore demonstrated that. Second he at least could get his men to fight, which in war is half the battle, and given the string of British failures this was harder than one would assume based on the situation.

So much in war, as in life, is just a matter of showing up. Seems easy when looking back, but time and time again, when the ball drops, it is amazing how few people rise to the challenge. Montgomery did, so despite everything about him and I agree that the list of his failures was a long as the day was long, he was a good military leader because of one thing: He got his men to fight.

Dec 16, 2012 2:01 PM

#237

AnimeForDummies

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Nov 2012

213

Such an intense episode!!! The CG was top notch in this episode. Sucks that after the 10th ep it'll go on a 3 month hiatus D;

Dec 16, 2012 4:45 PM

#238

blasterion

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Jul 2012

770

AiCon said:
MAL just picked up the story: Girls und Panzer Goes on Hiatus Until March

There goes my hopes of finishing the series before doing military service

Dec 16, 2012 5:00 PM

#239

fanks_177

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Jan 2012

298

last shot ends it all
wait.... i mean two shots!!!! at the same time?!?!?!?!

what kind of sorcery is this?!?! can't wait next episode!

Dec 16, 2012 5:42 PM

#240

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Nov 2012

4706

Takuan_Soho said:

Jyuu-niDesu said:
Interestingly the Japanese also envision a super large tank during the early years of the war. code name O-I, weighing in at 120 tonnes and comparable to the largest tank in the world in size, the gigantic Pzkpfw VII Maus. It would have a 105mm guns and 2 rocket launchers. Also 2 smaller 37mm guns in twin turret(like the 7TP TT) in front of the main armament and 7 machine guns. armor would have been 200mm(twice the Tiger's!).Power comes from two V12 diesel engine.Rumor has it that one prototype was completed and sent to Manchuria although this is unconfirmed.

It would have been mad, the O-I, on the battlefield. But this is nothing compared to the Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte!! Insanity at it's peak.

Thank you for that tank information, that was fascinating and confirmed something that I was talking last night to my wife about. The Japanese military obsession with size (and how I think it really hurt them in the war).

Japan had limited access to resources, but they spent a ton of them on making the biggest battleships in the world (Yamato and Musashi), the largest submarines of the war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400_class_submarine (fascinating history there),
and were in the process of creating the largest aircraft carrier of the war (which was sunk by a single torpedo, which sort of shows the stupidity of the bigger was better philosophy). That this also applied to the Army really doesn't come as a surprise, but I had never thought to apply it to find out. So again thank you very much.

On a side note, this is a good deal of information about the possibility of Japan being fairly close (at least closer than Germany) in creating an atomic bomb. The factory was located in what is now North Korea and was dismantled and taken back to the USSR by the triumphant Soviets. This I believe has never been followed up on, so it is just a rumor, though a very possible one (few people realize how good Japanese science was before the war).

A piece of the rumor was a German Uboat that made a mad dash for Japan the days before Germany surrender. There is a lot of belief that it contained Germany's fissionable uranium supplies (as well as other treasures). Of course it was sunk so we will never know.

About Germany Technology Transfers to Japan:
http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/KRUPP%20KUGELPANZER.htm

That German U-boat actually surrendered to the Americans, it was also holding a me262 jet fighter that was bound for japan.

Sorry but i cant remember the U-boats number, there was a debate weather or not the German uranium was used in the atomic bombs dropped on japan (turns out it wasn't, the Americans got it too late)

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Dec 16, 2012 5:48 PM

#241

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Welcome back, No_good_name!

A number of us noticed that you hadn't posted here for a while.

We were getting a little worried.

Dec 16, 2012 6:00 PM

#242

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Cratex said:

okanagan said:
Cratex, thank you for suggesting Montgomery, even if it was a joke. As far as I know, the only battle that he ever lost was when George Patton beat him to Messina when they were both in Sicily.

You don't have to lose to have failed - for instance, one could point to all the failed attacks he made against the German lines during the Normandy battles that he described as "part of his plan" to "write down the German strength" as making excuses - some argue that he was a good one for that sort of thing. Note, I'm not saying he should have won them - just that he shouldn't have tried to make them look like they were his plan. But, personally, as far as I'm concerned he really did blunder, and badly, with the Market Garden offensive he forced on Eisenhower. It delayed the capture of the vital port of Antwerp and due to German damage and mining of the estuary they were able to cause it would take months to get operational once they did capture it. Had the Allies captured Antwerp in September instead they could have been in a FAR better supply situation later that fall. And, in any case, the Market Garden offensive failed, wrecked the British 1st airborne division, and left the allies with a narrow road to nowhere. It was an operational failure and a strategic blunder.

At least, that's my opinion ;)

From what i can recall the allies got the port of antwerp operational relatively fast considering the fact that german engineers almost completely destroyed it.

One of the few generals of the war that didnt really seem to blunder was Omar Bradley(please correct me if i'm wrong)

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Dec 16, 2012 6:08 PM

#243

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okanagan said:
Welcome back, No_good_name!

A number of us noticed that you hadn't posted here for a while.

We were getting a little worried.

For shame i got banned, oddly enough this GuP delay has not got me angry, i hope the last 2 episodes are perfect.

I was happy to read that this wont be the only season of GuP.
I am so late to the discussion i think i'll just wait till ep 10 (shold be released soon)

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Dec 16, 2012 6:09 PM

#244

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no_good_name said:
That German U-boat actually surrendered to the Americans, it was also holding a me262 jet fighter that was bound for japan.

Sorry but i cant remember the U-boats number, there was a debate weather or not the German uranium was used in the atomic bombs dropped on japan (turns out it wasn't, the Americans got it too late)

You are correct, it was U 234. Shows what my memory is worth thinking it was sunk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-234

The book I was thinking about I read back in the early 1990's, I found the amazon link
http://www.amazon.com/Japans-Secret-War-Against-Atomic/dp/156924815X

A couple of historians and an intelligence analyst wrote rebuttals, but the one fact that I gave a lot of credence to in supporting the theory is that in 1946, the Japanese scientist who ran the project and claimed how close he was, also said that he thought the Soviets were pretty close. In that the US intelligence totally underestimated both the extent and progress of the Soviet program, I am somewhat skeptical about US declarations about how far the Japanese actually were at the time.

Dec 16, 2012 6:21 PM

#245

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Takuan_Soho said:

no_good_name said:
That German U-boat actually surrendered to the Americans, it was also holding a me262 jet fighter that was bound for japan.

Sorry but i cant remember the U-boats number, there was a debate weather or not the German uranium was used in the atomic bombs dropped on japan (turns out it wasn't, the Americans got it too late)

You are correct, it was U 234. Shows what my memory is worth thinking it was sunk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-234

The book I was thinking about I read back in the early 1990's, I found the amazon link
http://www.amazon.com/Japans-Secret-War-Against-Atomic/dp/156924815X

A couple of historians and an intelligence analyst wrote rebuttals, but the one fact that I gave a lot of credence to in supporting the theory is that in 1946, the Japanese scientist who ran the project and claimed how close he was, also said that he thought the Soviets were pretty close. In that the US intelligence totally underestimated both the extent and progress of the Soviet program, I am somewhat skeptical about US declarations about how far the Japanese actually were at the time.

God i wanted that me262 when i read the report, the Japanese had some crazy secret weapons in development during ww2, much like the Germans i was amazed at how often they seemed to think outside the square.

From what i remember, the soviet nuclear program was extremely primitive compared to its western counterparts, they relied heavily on captured scientists and the KGB espionage network (if i recall correctly they managed to infiltrate the Manhattan project?)

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Dec 16, 2012 6:35 PM

#246

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no_good_name said:

From what i can recall the allies got the port of antwerp operational relatively fast considering the fact that german engineers almost completely destroyed it.

I probably exaggerated, but I recall reading that it took until the end of November to get both the port operational and the estuary cleared of mines, by which time the weather was becoming the main obstacle to Allied operations and the chance to make good use of the additional supplies lost.

Dec 16, 2012 6:48 PM

#247

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no_good_name said:
God i wanted that me262 when i read the report, the Japanese had some crazy secret weapons in development during ww2, much like the Germans i was amazed at how often they seemed to think outside the square.

From what i remember, the soviet nuclear program was extremely primitive compared to its western counterparts, they relied heavily on captured scientists and the KGB espionage network (if i recall correctly they managed to infiltrate the Manhattan project?)

Humm, there is no doubt that they did infiltrate the Manhattan project, and the Verona transcripts makes it pretty hard for people to defend the Rosenburgs as not being traitors (whether they should have been executed is another question), but personally I think that the emphasis that this was what allowed the soviets to leap frog their nuclear program is overstated. Again, if the United States has a fault, it is that they underestimate the intelligence of their opponents. It is a side-effect of extreme democratic sentiment, that people living in a police state cannot be creative, but can only be drones in a "system". As you mentioned, in drips and drabs, we have learned about an assortment of crazy weapons the Germans and the Japanese had developed, so obviously during the cold war there was a concentrated effort to keep this secret. Since the end of the cold war a lot of material has been released, but atomic and nuclear secrets are the type of information still relevant, and still worth keeping secret.

Dec 16, 2012 7:11 PM

#248

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Takuan_Soho said:

no_good_name said:
God i wanted that me262 when i read the report, the Japanese had some crazy secret weapons in development during ww2, much like the Germans i was amazed at how often they seemed to think outside the square.

From what i remember, the soviet nuclear program was extremely primitive compared to its western counterparts, they relied heavily on captured scientists and the KGB espionage network (if i recall correctly they managed to infiltrate the Manhattan project?)

Humm, there is no doubt that they did infiltrate the Manhattan project, and the Verona transcripts makes it pretty hard for people to defend the Rosenburgs as not being traitors (whether they should have been executed is another question), but personally I think that the emphasis that this was what allowed the soviets to leap frog their nuclear program is overstated. Again, if the United States has a fault, it is that they underestimate the intelligence of their opponents. It is a side-effect of extreme democratic sentiment, that people living in a police state cannot be creative, but can only be drones in a "system". As you mentioned, in drips and drabs, we have learned about an assortment of crazy weapons the Germans and the Japanese had developed, so obviously during the cold war there was a concentrated effort to keep this secret. Since the end of the cold war a lot of material has been released, but atomic and nuclear secrets are the type of information still relevant, and still worth keeping secret.

I think as far as the rosenburg case is concerned, America had to take a strong stance on espionage, i wonder how different it would have been in this enlightened age?

The soviets were far from drones as you said, if you look at their advances in aircraft design during ww2 it was on par with German development and completely blew the British and American out of the water, i watched an interesting documentary about soviet designers who had to work out of gulags(i cant remember its name but it was good) they were developing rocket powered aircraft before the Germans and also built one of the best jet engines of the era, it was a shame Stalin didnt let any of them go into mass production (he preferred the tried and true designs, even the t34's development was held back somewhat)

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Dec 16, 2012 7:21 PM

#249

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no_good_name said:
I think as far as the rosenburg case is concerned, America had to take a strong stance on espionage, i wonder how different it would have been in this enlightened age?

The soviets were far from drones as you said, if you look at their advances in aircraft design during ww2 it was on par with German development and completely blew the British and American out of the water, i watched an interesting documentary about soviet designers who had to work out of gulags(i cant remember its name but it was good) they were developing rocket powered aircraft before the Germans and also built one of the best jet engines of the era, it was a shame Stalin didnt let any of them go into mass production (he preferred the tried and true designs, even the t34's development was held back somewhat)

The Rosenberg case as well as the guilt of Albert Hiss was a cause dejour for the American left for nearly 50 years. Verona put some damp into their argument, but there are still plenty of people in this country who, to this day, defend them and believe them to be innocent victims of McCarthyism. Though I am more sympathetic with the government position on these two cases, there is a decent argument that the only reason they were executed was because the US government painted themselves into a corner that they couldn't extract themselves from.

It would probably be an interesting historical question about how history would have changed had Stalin not been such a scientifically illiterate boor. Historians like to believe that people don't matter, but this is a situation where I believe it does. While I am a pretty hardcore free market economist, I have no delusions about the certainty of its triumph. Chance plays a much greater role in history than people care to admit.

Dec 16, 2012 7:39 PM

#250