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Sep 3, 2013 6:57 AM
#1

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** This thread contains Major spoilers **
** PLEASE leave the page if you haven't read the manga till chapter 42 -at least- **

Note: RBA stands for Reiner, Bertholdt and Annie.

Hey guys, after re-reading the last few chapters..
i have a feeling that RBA isn't as bad as we think..
well, sure they did a BAD things and nothing will erase it but still i think they have a GOOD reason behind it..

personaly, i like this trio (RBA).
Reiner, he's Badass.. Funny as hell.. and Helped his friends in many times..
Bertholdt, he's the quiet guy.. i find it so funny how he always showed with Reiner in the panels LOL..
also his speech in the last chapter made me feel sympathy for them.. :(
Annie, She's Awesome.. i don't need to say more..
also why did she cry? -in the spoiler down below-..

what do you think guys..?
do you like them? do you dislike them?
or do you Hate them and won't accept any excuses/reasons for what they did? and why?
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Sep 3, 2013 7:33 AM
#2

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There is never a good enough reason to kill 250,000 people without trying other options first.
Sep 3, 2013 8:21 AM
#3

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Until I know the reason they did what they did, no not really. I do like Reiner and Annie a lot though, certainly more than Eren, Mikasa, Armin and Jean, god they are boring and annoying.

Annie and Reiner spin off manga when?
Sep 3, 2013 9:07 AM
#4

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Right now I have no sympathy for them at all, but my opinion on them might change as story makes progress. They caused Eren and others so much grief and it's too early to know if they can redeem themselves after all they did.
Sep 6, 2013 2:39 PM
#5

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Given what we know right now, no, plus Annie killed Petra.
Sep 6, 2013 3:09 PM
#6

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No sympathies for them whatsoever. They're not meant to be sympathized with, and that's the point. This isn't some sappy manga where they'll get some half-assed redemption.

However, they're fantastically well-written characters. That's the point; a character doesn't have to be "good" morally to be good. They count amongst my favorite characters precisely because they're so nuanced and fascinating.
Sep 6, 2013 3:50 PM
#7

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I hope Eren snaps Bert over his titan knee for what he did to him. Reiner and Annie also need to die, but I don't know who should get the honor.
Sep 6, 2013 3:55 PM
#8

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I still don't know what's their reason in killing so many people and betraying everyone who used to trust them so much. Betraying is the worst thing to do. Until I know what's their goal in doing all this I don't like them much. It's something about them getting to home but it's unclear. The one I hate the most is Annie. She's plain evil, but Reiner and Bertoldt I don't know what I can say about them now.
Sep 6, 2013 4:08 PM
#9

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insanity- said:
I still don't know what's their reason in killing so many people and betraying everyone who used to trust them so much. Betraying is the worst thing to do. Until I know what's their goal in doing all this I don't like them much. It's something about them getting to home but it's unclear. The one I hate the most is Annie. She's plain evil, but Reiner and Bertoldt I don't know what I can say about them now.

Annie is not totally lost though. She didn't kill Armin when she had the chance. From what we can tell, she was brought up to hate the world. She hasn't done as much damage as Reiner and Bertl, but she has a lot never the less.

None of them seem to be really terrible, but they still committed terrible crimes, Bertl and Reiner having the most severe by far.
Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!)
Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe
Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics.
Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it.

Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something...
Sep 6, 2013 4:16 PM

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HalfMetalJacket said:
insanity- said:
I still don't know what's their reason in killing so many people and betraying everyone who used to trust them so much. Betraying is the worst thing to do. Until I know what's their goal in doing all this I don't like them much. It's something about them getting to home but it's unclear. The one I hate the most is Annie. She's plain evil, but Reiner and Bertoldt I don't know what I can say about them now.

Annie is not totally lost though. She didn't kill Armin when she had the chance. From what we can tell, she was brought up to hate the world. She hasn't done as much damage as Reiner and Bertl, but she has a lot never the less.

None of them seem to be really terrible, but they still committed terrible crimes, Bertl and Reiner having the most severe by far.


Either way she's the worst one to me. In the manga her dad said to treat the world as your enemy which might be one reason why she's evil. But still even if Bertoldt killed more people than her I still don't like her for what she's done.
Sep 6, 2013 4:17 PM

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HalfMetalJacket said:
insanity- said:
I still don't know what's their reason in killing so many people and betraying everyone who used to trust them so much. Betraying is the worst thing to do. Until I know what's their goal in doing all this I don't like them much. It's something about them getting to home but it's unclear. The one I hate the most is Annie. She's plain evil, but Reiner and Bertoldt I don't know what I can say about them now.

Annie is not totally lost though. She didn't kill Armin when she had the chance. From what we can tell, she was brought up to hate the world. She hasn't done as much damage as Reiner and Bertl, but she has a lot never the less.

None of them seem to be really terrible, but they still committed terrible crimes, Bertl and Reiner having the most severe by far.

None of them seem really terrible? Need I remind you of how Annie toyed with members of the Scouting Legion as she murdered them, how she killed all of Levi's squad and attempted to kidnap Eren.
Reiner and Bertholdt have the blood of thousands of innocents on their hands, Eren's mother died because of their actions, they destroyed his life. What is even worse is that they lied about to everybody, trained with them for a few years, and then broke the wall again, leading to the deaths of many of their "comrades" .
They all sicken me, and I hope they all have a painful end for what they have done, there is no reason to murder people like they did, and even enjoy it (in Annie's case).
Sep 6, 2013 4:19 PM

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With annie in her preserved state I feel like the author might turn her "good" later on since he decided not to kill her off, but even then I don't know if I'd completely forgive her.
Sep 6, 2013 6:36 PM

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MikasaxEren said:
HalfMetalJacket said:
insanity- said:
I still don't know what's their reason in killing so many people and betraying everyone who used to trust them so much. Betraying is the worst thing to do. Until I know what's their goal in doing all this I don't like them much. It's something about them getting to home but it's unclear. The one I hate the most is Annie. She's plain evil, but Reiner and Bertoldt I don't know what I can say about them now.

Annie is not totally lost though. She didn't kill Armin when she had the chance. From what we can tell, she was brought up to hate the world. She hasn't done as much damage as Reiner and Bertl, but she has a lot never the less.

None of them seem to be really terrible, but they still committed terrible crimes, Bertl and Reiner having the most severe by far.

None of them seem really terrible? Need I remind you of how Annie toyed with members of the Scouting Legion as she murdered them, how she killed all of Levi's squad and attempted to kidnap Eren.
Reiner and Bertholdt have the blood of thousands of innocents on their hands, Eren's mother died because of their actions, they destroyed his life. What is even worse is that they lied about to everybody, trained with them for a few years, and then broke the wall again, leading to the deaths of many of their "comrades" .
They all sicken me, and I hope they all have a painful end for what they have done, there is no reason to murder people like they did, and even enjoy it (in Annie's case).


True but when you look Reiner is the one who did the least. Bertholdt is the one who broke the wall down. Reiner he actually didn't even kill anyone. Bertholdt looked like he didn't even want to do this but either way Annie would be my least favorite from them. I didn't like her from the start.
Sep 6, 2013 7:06 PM
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insanity- said:
MikasaxEren said:
HalfMetalJacket said:
insanity- said:
I still don't know what's their reason in killing so many people and betraying everyone who used to trust them so much. Betraying is the worst thing to do. Until I know what's their goal in doing all this I don't like them much. It's something about them getting to home but it's unclear. The one I hate the most is Annie. She's plain evil, but Reiner and Bertoldt I don't know what I can say about them now.

Annie is not totally lost though. She didn't kill Armin when she had the chance. From what we can tell, she was brought up to hate the world. She hasn't done as much damage as Reiner and Bertl, but she has a lot never the less.

None of them seem to be really terrible, but they still committed terrible crimes, Bertl and Reiner having the most severe by far.

None of them seem really terrible? Need I remind you of how Annie toyed with members of the Scouting Legion as she murdered them, how she killed all of Levi's squad and attempted to kidnap Eren.
Reiner and Bertholdt have the blood of thousands of innocents on their hands, Eren's mother died because of their actions, they destroyed his life. What is even worse is that they lied about to everybody, trained with them for a few years, and then broke the wall again, leading to the deaths of many of their "comrades" .
They all sicken me, and I hope they all have a painful end for what they have done, there is no reason to murder people like they did, and even enjoy it (in Annie's case).


True but when you look Reiner is the one who did the least. Bertholdt is the one who broke the wall down. Reiner he actually didn't even kill anyone. Bertholdt looked like he didn't even want to do this but either way Annie would be my least favorite from them. I didn't like her from the start.


Before Reiner revealed himself to be the Amoured Bastard, he was actually a bro.

He followed the bro code.

He has that Bro-feeling, like Barney Stinson or Yosuke Hanamura.

He should be called Reiner Bro-un.

But alas, he doomed 1/3 of the Insiders' population.
Sep 6, 2013 7:43 PM

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Xinception said:
insanity- said:
MikasaxEren said:
HalfMetalJacket said:
insanity- said:
I still don't know what's their reason in killing so many people and betraying everyone who used to trust them so much. Betraying is the worst thing to do. Until I know what's their goal in doing all this I don't like them much. It's something about them getting to home but it's unclear. The one I hate the most is Annie. She's plain evil, but Reiner and Bertoldt I don't know what I can say about them now.

Annie is not totally lost though. She didn't kill Armin when she had the chance. From what we can tell, she was brought up to hate the world. She hasn't done as much damage as Reiner and Bertl, but she has a lot never the less.

None of them seem to be really terrible, but they still committed terrible crimes, Bertl and Reiner having the most severe by far.

None of them seem really terrible? Need I remind you of how Annie toyed with members of the Scouting Legion as she murdered them, how she killed all of Levi's squad and attempted to kidnap Eren.
Reiner and Bertholdt have the blood of thousands of innocents on their hands, Eren's mother died because of their actions, they destroyed his life. What is even worse is that they lied about to everybody, trained with them for a few years, and then broke the wall again, leading to the deaths of many of their "comrades" .
They all sicken me, and I hope they all have a painful end for what they have done, there is no reason to murder people like they did, and even enjoy it (in Annie's case).


True but when you look Reiner is the one who did the least. Bertholdt is the one who broke the wall down. Reiner he actually didn't even kill anyone. Bertholdt looked like he didn't even want to do this but either way Annie would be my least favorite from them. I didn't like her from the start.


Before Reiner revealed himself to be the Amoured Bastard, he was actually a bro.

He followed the bro code.

He has that Bro-feeling, like Barney Stinson or Yosuke Hanamura.

He should be called Reiner Bro-un.

But alas, he doomed 1/3 of the Insiders' population.


Betrayal is the worst thing to do. When you put so much trust into that person and actually consider them like a brother but then they betray you is horrible. I mean if you were plain evil from the beginning no one cares but when someone close betrays you it's hard to believe that. Like how he didn't believe Annie of all people were a titan. And he thought Reiner was crazy when he said he was the Armored titan.
Sep 6, 2013 7:57 PM
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Um, well I like their characters. Don't like what they did, however.
Sep 6, 2013 8:04 PM

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I was talking about them as people. They don't really rub off as truly evil (Annie has demonstrated tendencies though) people. If anything, they actually seem somewhat remorseful for their crimes.

I didn't say their crimes weren't terrible, if that's what you think I was saying. For the damage they've caused, they'll never find forgiveness and they know that.

The severity of their crimes would go Reiner> Bertholdt> Annie. Yet Annie seems to be the most malicious of the group in spite of how much less damage she's caused. Reiner pretty much doomed the residents of Wall Maria (1/3 of the population), but we can tell the guilt pretty much destroyed his mental well being, and Bertholdt is held accountable for the destruction of one district and then Trost.

I think the real monsters here are bastards that are making BRA do these things. The thought of making kids perform your the dirty work sickens me more than the what BRA has done.
Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!)
Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe
Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics.
Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it.

Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something...
Sep 6, 2013 10:18 PM

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HalfMetalJacket said:
Yet Annie seems to be the most malicious of the group in spite of how much less damage she's caused.
Is this including that fact that she's the one who probably lead all the titans towards the wall?
Sep 6, 2013 10:52 PM

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Edefrem said:
HalfMetalJacket said:
Yet Annie seems to be the most malicious of the group in spite of how much less damage she's caused.
Is this including that fact that she's the one who probably lead all the titans towards the wall?

I didn't see her around the wall at the time, but did it actually say anywhere that she did? Just wanna know.
Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!)
Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe
Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics.
Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it.

Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something...
Sep 6, 2013 11:13 PM
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"I hate them.. i will rip them apart.. tear them to shreds and eat them!"

HalfMetalJacket said:
Edefrem said:
HalfMetalJacket said:
Yet Annie seems to be the most malicious of the group in spite of how much less damage she's caused.
Is this including that fact that she's the one who probably lead all the titans towards the wall?

I didn't see her around the wall at the time, but did it actually say anywhere that she did? Just wanna know.


armin theorized it sometime back
Sep 6, 2013 11:44 PM

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chikkychappy said:
"I hate them.. i will rip them apart.. tear them to shreds and eat them!"

HalfMetalJacket said:
Edefrem said:
HalfMetalJacket said:
Yet Annie seems to be the most malicious of the group in spite of how much less damage she's caused.
Is this including that fact that she's the one who probably lead all the titans towards the wall?

I didn't see her around the wall at the time, but did it actually say anywhere that she did? Just wanna know.


armin theorized it sometime back

If she really did that, then she is now the worst of the trio.

Annie is still one of my favourite characters in this series though. Her or Mikasa. Reiner proves to be the most fascinating by far though, so in terms of the most well written, I'll give it to the big bro.
Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!)
Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe
Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics.
Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it.

Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something...
Sep 7, 2013 8:17 PM
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Well in latest chapters Ymir said something about not remembering eating comrade of Reiner. And they replied with not remembering doing something as titans as well. Also the part with being warrior with purpose of destroying wall. I think reiner didn't do that on purpose for the first time. He had goal( catalyst to activate titan form) and uncounciously destroyed it. THEY RE GOOD GUYS
Sep 7, 2013 8:29 PM

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Annie is also implied to have killed Marco too, because she had his maneuvering gear.
Sep 11, 2013 6:35 AM

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Jotaro_Kujo said:
They're not meant to be sympathized with, and that's the point.

Says who? Going by the results of the poll alone, most people to not seem to hate them. I'm also in this group, at least as far as Reiner and Bertholt are concerned, Annie always semmed rather cold. Also it's pretty obvious that they did not do anything of that out of evil intent and are suffering from their guilt (again, at least Reiner and Bertholt, not sure about Annie). So I'm pretty sure they ARE meant to be sympathized with, especially with Bertholt's whining in the recent chapters about how they never liked killing people.

As long as we don't know why they did it, it's too early to judge them. I chose poll option number one, since Reiner is awesome.

MikasaxEren said:
There is never a good enough reason to kill 250,000 people without trying other options first.

And who said they never tried any other way to deal with whatever problem they are facing?
Sep 14, 2013 5:57 AM
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MikasaxEren said:
Annie is also implied to have killed Marco too, because she had his maneuvering gear.


Implied to have killed Marco? Jean took some other corpses 3D Gear when his broke, so is he implied to have killed that person aswell? ^^
Marco died inside the walls of Trost and the female titan never appeared there. If she had been, the normal titans would have hunted her which would have been very easy for everyone to notice since the army was in the process of luring the titans to the walls when Marco was last seen and he was clearly killed by a titan, so she couldn't have cut him down in human form.


---

As for BRA: Their actions are neither right nor just but I'm not sure if they can be called evil.
The only thing we know about them so far is that they consider themselves warriors, not soldiers. The difference between those two is that being a soldier is a job: you're simply a trained fighter under some governments command. A warrior however is someone that fights for his own beliefs. That can even be seen in Reiners "disorder". Multiple Personality Disorder is usually the brains way of protecting itself or coping with something, and Reiners "Soldier-Personality" is this coping mechanism which most likely appeared due to him growing an affection to his comrades.
So as a warrior he did what he believed to be right but his mind could not bear having to betray his friends for it and he took shelter by becoming a soldier: Someone that simply follows orders without questioning them.
If his reason for trying to eradicate mankind wasn't very very good he would have had the choice of simply saying "I'll stay true to my human side and stay loyal to my friends." and would have never developed MPD.
Sep 14, 2013 6:52 AM

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LestrangeHakase said:
MikasaxEren said:
Annie is also implied to have killed Marco too, because she had his maneuvering gear.


Implied to have killed Marco? Jean took some other corpses 3D Gear when his broke, so is he implied to have killed that person aswell? ^^
Marco died inside the walls of Trost and the female titan never appeared there. If she had been, the normal titans would have hunted her which would have been very easy for everyone to notice since the army was in the process of luring the titans to the walls when Marco was last seen and he was clearly killed by a titan, so she couldn't have cut him down in human form.


---

As for BRA: Their actions are neither right nor just but I'm not sure if they can be called evil.
The only thing we know about them so far is that they consider themselves warriors, not soldiers. The difference between those two is that being a soldier is a job: you're simply a trained fighter under some governments command. A warrior however is someone that fights for his own beliefs. That can even be seen in Reiners "disorder". Multiple Personality Disorder is usually the brains way of protecting itself or coping with something, and Reiners "Soldier-Personality" is this coping mechanism which most likely appeared due to him growing an affection to his comrades.
So as a warrior he did what he believed to be right but his mind could not bear having to betray his friends for it and he took shelter by becoming a soldier: Someone that simply follows orders without questioning them.
If his reason for trying to eradicate mankind wasn't very very good he would have had the choice of simply saying "I'll stay true to my human side and stay loyal to my friends." and would have never developed MPD.


When Annie says "I'm sorry" around the corpses way back, that could have implied she took part in killing marco
Sep 14, 2013 7:23 AM
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ErenxMikasa said:

When Annie says "I'm sorry" around the corpses way back, that could have implied she took part in killing marco


It could be. But then again it could simply be due to the way BRA operate. When Armin first saw the female titan and guessed she was "like Eren" he took the wild guess that she might be the one that lead all the normal titans towards the breached wall.

Meaning Annie usually runs around outside to get the titans attention, Berthold breaks the outer walls gate, Annie leads the titans towards the gate and later Reiner destroys the inner wall. If that was true Annie (same goes for Reiner and Berthold ofc) would be indirectly responsible for everyone that was killed by those normal titans. Enough of a reason for her to apologize.
Sep 14, 2013 8:22 AM

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LestrangeHakase said:
ErenxMikasa said:

When Annie says "I'm sorry" around the corpses way back, that could have implied she took part in killing marco


It could be. But then again it could simply be due to the way BRA operate. When Armin first saw the female titan and guessed she was "like Eren" he took the wild guess that she might be the one that lead all the normal titans towards the breached wall.

Meaning Annie usually runs around outside to get the titans attention, Berthold breaks the outer walls gate, Annie leads the titans towards the gate and later Reiner destroys the inner wall. If that was true Annie (same goes for Reiner and Berthold ofc) would be indirectly responsible for everyone that was killed by those normal titans. Enough of a reason for her to apologize.


That still means she took part in Marco's death.
Sep 14, 2013 1:27 PM
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Oh yeah she did. In fact she pretty much took part in the deaths of almost every human we've seen dying. It's just that I doubt she willfully and personally killed Marco just to get his 3D gear. He simply happened to die in the chaos BRA orchestrated and Annie took his gear afterwards. Maybe she found him before Jean did (haven't gone back to seeing whether or not Marco was wearing his gear when Jean found him) or she took it just before Marco was burned along with the other corpses.
Sep 14, 2013 1:29 PM

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after seeing episode 23, Annie is a confirmed piece of ****.
Sep 14, 2013 1:56 PM

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LestrangeHakase said:
Oh yeah she did. In fact she pretty much took part in the deaths of almost every human we've seen dying. It's just that I doubt she willfully and personally killed Marco just to get his 3D gear. He simply happened to die in the chaos BRA orchestrated and Annie took his gear afterwards. Maybe she found him before Jean did (haven't gone back to seeing whether or not Marco was wearing his gear when Jean found him) or she took it just before Marco was burned along with the other corpses.


That still doesn't explain her apologizing, I think the timing is too convenient for it to have been a coincidence.
Sep 14, 2013 2:03 PM
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Anime versus canon :P In the manga it's a reluctant smile, in the anime they exaggerate it into a long manic laughter.

ErenxMikasa said:
That still doesn't explain her apologizing, I think the timing is too convenient for it to have been a coincidence.


Well yeah it was pretty convenient. After all she knew people would die that day, but she couldn't have known who would die. If Marco had survived she'd have taken Minas Gear, or maybe the gear of one of the many redshirts that died that day. So there wasn't even a reason to kill Marco. Especially since he was neither and extraordinary trainee, nor a born leader or a threat in any other way.

Oh and whats more: Why would she have any need to kill him during the fight anyway? She needed to get a second 3D gear to kill the two captured titans. However the trainees only found out that titans were captured after the fighting ended. The Scouting Legion hadn't even appeared in Trost when Marco was last seen alive (luring away the titan that was going for Jean) so no titan was captured at that point o.o
LestrangeHakaseSep 14, 2013 2:20 PM
Sep 14, 2013 2:26 PM

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LestrangeHakase said:
Anime versus canon :P In the manga it's a reluctant smile, in the anime they exaggerate it into a long manic laughter.

ErenxMikasa said:
That still doesn't explain her apologizing, I think the timing is too convenient for it to have been a coincidence.


Well yeah it was pretty convenient. After all she knew people would die that day, but she couldn't have known who would die. If Marco had survived she'd have taken Minas Gear, or maybe the gear of one of the many redshirts that died that day. So there wasn't even a reason to kill Marco. Especially since he was neither and extraordinary trainee, nor a born leader or a threat in any other way.

Oh and whats more: Why would she have any need to kill him during the fight anyway? She needed to get a second 3D gear to kill the two captured titans. However the trainees only found out that titans were captured after the fighting ended. The Scouting Legion hadn't even appeared in Trost when Marco was last seen alive (luring away the titan that was going for Jean) so no titan was captured at that point o.o


No I meant the timing with regards to when Marco was revealed dead, it seemed like she was apologizing to him
Sep 14, 2013 2:30 PM

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LestrangeHakase said:
Anime versus canon :P In the manga it's a reluctant smile, in the anime they exaggerate it into a long manic laughter.

ErenxMikasa said:
That still doesn't explain her apologizing, I think the timing is too convenient for it to have been a coincidence.


Well yeah it was pretty convenient. After all she knew people would die that day, but she couldn't have known who would die. If Marco had survived she'd have taken Minas Gear, or maybe the gear of one of the many redshirts that died that day. So there wasn't even a reason to kill Marco. Especially since he was neither and extraordinary trainee, nor a born leader or a threat in any other way.

Oh and whats more: Why would she have any need to kill him during the fight anyway? She needed to get a second 3D gear to kill the two captured titans. However the trainees only found out that titans were captured after the fighting ended. The Scouting Legion hadn't even appeared in Trost when Marco was last seen alive (luring away the titan that was going for Jean) so no titan was captured at that point o.o

She laughs in the manga too, there are the sound effect things on the panel where she grins, although it does seem less manic.
Sep 14, 2013 2:47 PM
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MikasaxEren said:
She laughs in the manga too, there are the sound effect things on the panel where she grins, although it does seem less manic.


True, but the anime goes as far as to show her blushing and laughing manically to depict her as the perverted psychopath getting aroused by what she does. Guess thats due to the Animes nature. It's about to end, so they need to turn her into the perfect villain for now.


@ErenxMikasa
The timing is convenient but there are lots of reasons for her to apologize. Either the fact that the titans that she lured in killed Marco, or she's apologizing cause she desecrated his corpse by stealing his 3D gear or she's simply sorry that some of her comrades died.
I'm not saying she's a good person, but for now the only person that has willfully killed someone just to get their equipment is Berthold. He's the one that ate a guy along with Ymir cause he figured he'd need the 3D gear to flee. Annie used Marcos death to her advantage which is already pretty disgusting, but I seriously doubt she actively killed Marco with her own hands just because she apologized to the people that died.
Sep 14, 2013 2:54 PM

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LestrangeHakase said:
MikasaxEren said:
She laughs in the manga too, there are the sound effect things on the panel where she grins, although it does seem less manic.


True, but the anime goes as far as to show her blushing and laughing manically to depict her as the perverted psychopath getting aroused by what she does. Guess thats due to the Animes nature. It's about to end, so they need to turn her into the perfect villain for now.


@ErenxMikasa
The timing is convenient but there are lots of reasons for her to apologize. Either the fact that the titans that she lured in killed Marco, or she's apologizing cause she desecrated his corpse by stealing his 3D gear or she's simply sorry that some of her comrades died.
I'm not saying she's a good person, but for now the only person that has willfully killed someone just to get their equipment is Berthold. He's the one that ate a guy along with Ymir cause he figured he'd need the 3D gear to flee. Annie used Marcos death to her advantage which is already pretty disgusting, but I seriously doubt she actively killed Marco with her own hands just because she apologized to the people that died.

I don't know, I still think Annie killed Marco to take his gear, we kind of get a hint in the anime in episode 13 when we see Marco's shocked expression. Why would he be shocked if he saw a t titan? he had been fighting them all day, now if Annie was coming at him with her blades, then he would be surprised. More evidence to this is Annie's hesitation when Armin asks her why she had Marco's gear, if she had just taken it from his corpse she wouldn't have found it so difficult to answer that question.
The thing is, Annie doesn't care for anybody else. The only act of compassion we see is that she doesn't murder Armin, but why would she? he wasn't attacking her.

Marco's injuries can easily be explained as those caused by the titan killing blades, I mean look what Mikasa did to Reiner and Bertholdt so easily, or what a one armed Irvin Smith managed to do.
Sep 15, 2013 5:49 PM
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I have BIG sympathy towards them. I mean we don't even know their reasons for infiltrating the walls, and yet everyone is just hating on them. I actually became really interested into their characters now that they've revealed their identities. And All murders have a reason in them right? So why can't we just learn about their reasonings and backstories before we try to kill them. And Remember how Eren's dad gave Eren that shot as a kid. Well what if RBA had to face that kind of fate like that, and were told to destroy humanity from their village. Speaking of the village, does anyone wanna guess that the village is actually filled with other titan shifters in there, which explains the fact that RBA are trying to kidnap Eren and Ymir.

And I'm done with my ranting or something.
Sep 15, 2013 6:28 PM

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ConquestOtaku17 said:
I have BIG sympathy towards them. I mean we don't even know their reasons for infiltrating the walls, and yet everyone is just hating on them. I actually became really interested into their characters now that they've revealed their identities. And All murders have a reason in them right? So why can't we just learn about their reasonings and backstories before we try to kill them. And Remember how Eren's dad gave Eren that shot as a kid. Well what if RBA had to face that kind of fate like that, and were told to destroy humanity from their village. Speaking of the village, does anyone wanna guess that the village is actually filled with other titan shifters in there, which explains the fact that RBA are trying to kidnap Eren and Ymir.

And I'm done with my ranting or something.

They still did some nasty shit.
Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
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Sep 15, 2013 8:59 PM
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HalfMetalJacket said:
ConquestOtaku17 said:
I have BIG sympathy towards them. I mean we don't even know their reasons for infiltrating the walls, and yet everyone is just hating on them. I actually became really interested into their characters now that they've revealed their identities. And All murders have a reason in them right? So why can't we just learn about their reasonings and backstories before we try to kill them. And Remember how Eren's dad gave Eren that shot as a kid. Well what if RBA had to face that kind of fate like that, and were told to destroy humanity from their village. Speaking of the village, does anyone wanna guess that the village is actually filled with other titan shifters in there, which explains the fact that RBA are trying to kidnap Eren and Ymir.

And I'm done with my ranting or something.

They still did some nasty shit.


Like I said, they must've had some reason for it.
Sep 15, 2013 9:02 PM

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ConquestOtaku17 said:
HalfMetalJacket said:
ConquestOtaku17 said:
I have BIG sympathy towards them. I mean we don't even know their reasons for infiltrating the walls, and yet everyone is just hating on them. I actually became really interested into their characters now that they've revealed their identities. And All murders have a reason in them right? So why can't we just learn about their reasonings and backstories before we try to kill them. And Remember how Eren's dad gave Eren that shot as a kid. Well what if RBA had to face that kind of fate like that, and were told to destroy humanity from their village. Speaking of the village, does anyone wanna guess that the village is actually filled with other titan shifters in there, which explains the fact that RBA are trying to kidnap Eren and Ymir.

And I'm done with my ranting or something.

They still did some nasty shit.


Like I said, they must've had some reason for it.

We'll see.

While I don't have much sympathy, I do feel pity towards RBA. I can see how greatly they've been affected by their actions, and yet they still believe what must be done must be done. Maybe sympathy is the same as pity.
Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!)
Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe
Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics.
Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it.

Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something...
Sep 15, 2013 9:07 PM

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I'm still waiting for the reveal for what and why are they doing this.
It seems that Reiner and Bertholdt weren't completely lying about their backstory, but at the same time they've already dirtied their hands and so has Annie.
There is some big reason behind their actions we haven't seen yet, but even so it's going to be really hard for me to hold any sympathy towards them.

They've killed plenty of people and even fellow soldiers, it's going to take a lot to justify that. I'm wondering if it's going to follow that set up where someone betrays another and at the end of it all they die or receive punishment, but are forgiven by their peers.
RagixSep 15, 2013 9:31 PM
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Sep 15, 2013 9:24 PM

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Same. I'm still waiting to find out the story behind them and why they're doing everything that they're doing. But right now to me, they seem like Itachi from Naruto. It looks like they don't enjoy killing people but they have no choice for reasons that are worth the lives of many. They've stained their hands with blood for the greater good (?).
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Sep 15, 2013 9:41 PM

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Preciize said:
It looks like they don't enjoy killing people but they have no choice for reasons that are worth the lives of many. They've stained their hands with blood for the greater good (?).


I think that's more because they accidentally let themselves get attached to them as "friends". The ONLY way I can see it being for the greater good is if it turns out it's the Monarch who's the real villain here. I see that being very unlikely though.
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Sep 15, 2013 10:07 PM

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Ragix said:
I think that's more because they accidentally let themselves get attached to them as "friends". The ONLY way I can see it being for the greater good is if it turns out it's the Monarch who's the real villain here. I see that being very unlikely though.


Well I don't think they were cold hearted killers to begin with. Since Bertolt repeatedly says they can finally go home it makes me think they were forced to go on their current mission. He also says he and Reiner cherished the times they had with their comrades during the 3 years of training. I don't believe they would have developed such a strong bond w/ their friends if they only cared about completing the mission given to them. Looks like Reiner, Bertolt, and Annie all have their inner conflicts.

As for the Monarchy, I could see it happening. With all the corruption going on, it seems like the government doesn't care much about anything or anyone but themselves. Plus there's so much about the cult we don't know yet so I wouldn't rule it out.
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Sep 15, 2013 10:32 PM

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Preciize said:
Ragix said:
I think that's more because they accidentally let themselves get attached to them as "friends". The ONLY way I can see it being for the greater good is if it turns out it's the Monarch who's the real villain here. I see that being very unlikely though.


Well I don't think they were cold hearted killers to begin with. Since Bertolt repeatedly says they can finally go home it makes me think they were forced to go on their current mission. He also says he and Reiner cherished the times they had with their comrades during the 3 years of training. I don't believe they would have developed such a strong bond w/ their friends if they only cared about completing the mission given to them. Looks like Reiner, Bertolt, and Annie all have their inner conflicts.

As for the Monarchy, I could see it happening. With all the corruption going on, it seems like the government doesn't care much about anything or anyone but themselves. Plus there's so much about the cult we don't know yet so I wouldn't rule it out.


That's where the problem comes in though, they all say that, but are still willing to go as far as kill innocent people and even Marco presumably for their mission. Unfortunately, all we can do is speculate for now, but like I said, they're going to need a damn good reason for me to show them sympathy after what they've done so far.

It could, but as of now I'm not sure. I feel like the Monarch is just kind of there for us to know how exactly the whole place runs. I mean, we know almost nothing about the government or Monarch, we just know that there are nobles and a King, but we've been focusing on the Military only this whole time. If they do end up playing that card, I hope they give us more vivid details about the Monarchy and Nobles instead of giving us a bland static antagonist.

The cult on the other hand is something I'm rather interested in. Especially seeing as how they're seen as crazy, but hold possibly one of the greatest secrets of the walls and perhaps the key as to how humanity survive for so long.
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Sep 15, 2013 10:55 PM

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Ragix said:

That's where the problem comes in though, they all say that, but are still willing to go as far as kill innocent people and even Marco presumably for their mission. Unfortunately, all we can do is speculate for now, but like I said, they're going to need a damn good reason for me to show them sympathy after what they've done so far.

It could, but as of now I'm not sure. I feel like the Monarch is just kind of there for us to know how exactly the whole place runs. I mean, we know almost nothing about the government or Monarch, we just know that there are nobles and a King, but we've been focusing on the Military only this whole time. If they do end up playing that card, I hope they give us more vivid details about the Monarchy and Nobles instead of giving us a bland static antagonist.

The cult on the other hand is something I'm rather interested in. Especially seeing as how they're seen as crazy, but hold possibly one of the greatest secrets of the walls and perhaps the key as to how humanity survive for so long.


I thought Marco had already died and Annie just took his 3D gear. But anyways, I know where you're coming from. I hope we won't have to wait too long for their reasons to be revealed to us.

I agree, I'm pretty fascinated by the mysteries surrounding the cult. There's so many ways the author could go with this.
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Sep 15, 2013 11:01 PM

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My body is ready. Watcha got Isayama? Bring it on!!!
Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!)
Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe
Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics.
Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it.

Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something...
Sep 15, 2013 11:05 PM

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Preciize said:


I thought Marco had already died and Annie just took his 3D gear. But anyways, I know where you're coming from. I hope we won't have to wait too long for their reasons to be revealed to us.

I agree, I'm pretty fascinated by the mysteries surrounding the cult. There's so many ways the author could go with this.


I'm not so sure myself, I'll have to go re-read it. Although from what I do know is that even if she didn't kill him, she played an indirect role in his death as she did have his 3D gear, which she shouldn't have.
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Sep 16, 2013 2:31 AM
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One again: Annie likely led all the regular Titans into Trost so she had an indirect role in every death that day. Same goes for Berthold. Reiner is prolly an exception. Maybe There was no need for him to break the inner wall or he was in his soldier-personality and couldn't do his job.

But her killing Marco for his 3D gear still makes no sense.

Time: Marco was last seen luring Titans away during the "titan eren boulder plan". The two titans that were captured were captured by the scouting legion. The Scouting Legion appeared right AFTER Eren sealed the gate and even then it would have taken a while for everyone to get the information that there were captured titans.

Reason: Thats the part that still annoys me, cause it seems like people are not content with the disgusting stuff Annie actually did, but are instead forcefully trying to turn her into even more of a monster than she already is. What reason would she have had to kill Marco at the time he died?
1. She could not have known she would need a second 3D gear to kill the captured titans before the Scouting Legion even showed up in Trost or minutes after they did. Was she just collecting 3D-gears for fun?
2. Even if she found out about the captured titans very early: Why would she need to kill anyone? There were hundreds of corpses everywhere and not all of them were chewed on (you can see multiple other fully intact corpses lying everywhere just one panel before Annie finds Marco while identifying the dead). Whats more, Marco was noone special to her. They pretty much never spoke in the manga and had no reason to like or hate each other, so why would she rather kill him (and risk someone seeing her kill him) than just pick up another persons 3D gear?
Even in court you can hardly claim someone is guilty if there is neither evidence for it nor any motive for them to comit the crime and Annie simply had no motive at the time of Marcos death. She may have had one a few hours or a day later when she heard about Sawney and Bean, but not right then.

Apology: Her apologizing to Marco is somehow taken as proof that she violently stabbed him to death with her sword on a whim. There's a very simple reason for her to apologize. She was the reason all those titans swarmed into Trost and then she sees that one of her comrades died because of those titans, while she's counting and identifying people. More than enough of a reason to owe him an apology.

"I found it": Another one of those quotes that seem to serve as proof. By telling Armin that she "found it" she's neither saying "I randomly found Marcos corpse and stole it." nor "I killed him to take it.". The important part at that moment is that she is not denying that she has it and is basically saying ""Yep, I'm the female titan" while still keeping up her pokerface and answering as vague as possible. She does the same thing seconds later when Armin asks her if she was the one that killed the captured Titans. She simply answers "Maybe, maybe not" - another vague answer that's still shocking because it's not a denial.

Fun fact I stumbled upon while re-reading those chapters: It seems like Annie never actively lies. Whenever she's asked a question she either refuses to answer, gives a very vague answer or tells the truth. Actually it's the same with Reiner and Berthold. The bits about their hometown that they revealed to Eren and Armin during training were actually true ( hometown being attacked by titans -> Ymir killing Berik / Reiner saying he has something he'll never deviate from and that he wants to see his homeland again -> they said the same in the last 3 chapters). Maybe it's their honor since they consider themselves warriors?
However all of them are passive liars ofc.
LestrangeHakaseSep 16, 2013 2:36 AM
Sep 16, 2013 3:07 AM

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LestrangeHakase said:

Apology: Her apologizing to Marco is somehow taken as proof that she violently stabbed him to death with her sword on a whim. There's a very simple reason for her to apologize. She was the reason all those titans swarmed into Trost and then she sees that one of her comrades died because of those titans, while she's counting and identifying people. More than enough of a reason to owe him an apology.

There's one thing people don't realise.

Annie was actually apologising to the corpse of Mina Carolina, that girl with the black pig tails.

You know, the cutie that got caught by the 'Moe' titan (some people find it kawaii, but looking at the corpse, more like kowaii)? The anime doesn't show much of the corpse due to its nasty nature but in the manga, its clearer.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7Hzc377HLFQ/TpFYu4gCziI/AAAAAAAACcw/SBb1NGhsLxM/180.png?imgmax=2000

Looks feminine. Has similar hair. Injury matches (her face was last seen in the 'Moe' titan's mouth. It must have discarded her corpse after chewing her face off. Kowaii indeed). Doesn't help when you notice that Mina seems to hang around a lot with Annie. She's apologising to Mina.

Really brings up some questions. Hope they show her body in the BD, would really clear some things up. Poor girl, I hardly knew you.
Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!)
Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe
Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics.
Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it.

Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something...
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