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| I'm glad you posted this, especially the distinction between subjective and objective arguments. But if you post a nonsensical argument you shouldn't be surprised when you receive nonsensical reply XD Although I guess there is something to be said about being the better man. Thanks for being the better man Samhiuy. |
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| @ Samhiuy: everything that someone posts should technically be their opinion. I shouldn't need to say it, though my criticisms were legitimate. All the counterarguments are just fanboys being assholes and not actually addressing what I'm saying. It's to be expected though. I like Fate, but when it missteps as hard as it does and still gets defended by it's fans as hard as they do, I find that pretty amusing. So yeah, these guys are being assholes because they can't take any criticism of their favourite show. If they could, they'd at least address the arguments, but they aren't. Characterisation? Please stop using that as an argument. That's the argument everyone uses when a show is boring. There are better ways to characterise than to talk. In fact, fight scenes can help to develop a character, but unfortunately, Fate stops to talk to do this rather than to show it through the fight. Even little things like telling us Caster can stop time. You can show us this by having Archer being unable to move despite trying desperately to do so for example, but the show decided it was necessary to tell us. |
Miraclezify said: @ Samhiuy: everything that someone posts should technically be their opinion. I shouldn't need to say it, though my criticisms were legitimate. All the counterarguments are just fanboys being assholes and not actually addressing what I'm saying. It's to be expected though. I like Fate, but when it missteps as hard as it does and still gets defended by it's fans as hard as they do, I find that pretty amusing. So yeah, these guys are being assholes because they can't take any criticism of their favourite show. If they could, they'd at least address the arguments, but they aren't. Characterisation? Please stop using that as an argument. That's the argument everyone uses when a show is boring. There are better ways to characterise than to talk. In fact, fight scenes can help to develop a character, but unfortunately, Fate stops to talk to do this rather than to show it through the fight. Even little things like telling us Caster can stop time. You can show us this by having Archer being unable to move despite trying desperately to do so for example, but the show decided it was necessary to tell us. See, Caster CAN'T stop time. He explained that she can use 'True Magic' the 5th True Magic, inside where they are. But you don't know True Magic yet, so just not being able to move, won't explain anything~ |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| All of the dialogue should be transplanted into the fights? There's a whole lot of dialogue to cover but not that many fights. Fate is hardly a show about fights. (sweet Jesus HF has about 5 fights but we expect it to cover 3 movies XD). |
WrongPriestNov 23, 2014 1:22 AM
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WrongPriest said: Also the Archer vs Assassin being all flash and short is the entire point. It served it's purpose to a T. I never mentioned it was too short. But it was all flash and no choreography. That's definitely a step down from every other piece of action we've received from the show which has thus far been pretty good. kingcity20 said: Agreed, if we get too many more episodes of this quality I'm not going to survive between cours. Definitely. Too much talking, not enough action. I have to think waaaaay to hard and I find it pointless. Who cares about the characters, I want to see mor bloooodz[/quote] It's not characterisation when you're espousing things we already know. Caster killing innocents? We found that out last week. That's repeated several times. Archer being similar to Shirou? They repeat that several times as well. If this is meant to be foreshadowing, that's pretty damn heavy handed. It's not about the fact that they talk too much, it's about the fact that they repeat the same thing too much. More dialogue in line with Archer and Shirou's views on justice and ethics are welcome however. WrongPriest said: I'm glad you posted this, especially the distinction between subjective and objective arguments. But if you post a nonsensical argument you shouldn't be surprised when you receive nonsensical reply XD Why is it that when someone posts a subjective positive statement, they get a pass, but when someone posts a subjective negative statement (and actually, parts of it are objective when its comes to storytelling), I get bullied by fanboys? VarunaBles said: And here I thought the foreshadowing was too obvious. There's obviously at least one of us here who didn't get it. At least the 2010 version was superior right? I mean, it had action. Actually that's pretty much all it had, but meh. The hell are you talking about? Are you agreeing with me then becoming sarcastic? Or were you sarcastic all the way through? |
| Fate/Stay night: Unlimited spoiler works. There should be a new discussion thread with *No spoilers or spoiler tags* allowed rule. Just so people who never read FSN can enjoy discussing. It's impossible to discuss anything here since it's all spoiler to spoiler to spoiler. Even if someone tries to guess something he's stopped immediately by a stream of endless spoiler tags. This is why I hate really popular shows. Always the same story. |
Miraclezify said: If perfection is constantly telling us things we already know, Wrong Miraclezify said: dialogue that doesn't lead anywhere How can you say that if you didnt get spoiled or can see future?It WILL lead somewhere Miraclezify said: perfect episode.and heavy handed foreshadowing then yup, definitely a you think that way,its completely subjective Miraclezify said: Probably the weakest episode of this series so far. subjective Miraclezify said: The fights, which have been a high point of this show, were too short to be any fun even if what they did show was pretty cool. Archer vs Assassin was too much flash so you couldn't see anything as well. Thats a thing,they are too fast for normal human eye,their fights dont drag on 5 episodes like Naruto Miraclezify said: I hope this doesn't become a thing. The show has so much more potential than talking rubbish and not fighting. Oh, and this is probably the first time Shirou has really been in infamous annoying self. Let's hope that doesn't continue either. More subjective opinions Happy? |
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mirakura said: See, Caster CAN'T stop time. He explained that she can use 'True Magic' the 5th True Magic, inside where they are. But you don't know True Magic yet, so just not being able to move, won't explain anything~ Please, that's just a nitpick at my argument. Do I really need to be that specific with what Caster can/can't do for you to understand my argument? We don't need to know about "true magic" yet either. When it shows up, then explain it. We don't need it now. WrongPriest said: All if the dialogue should be transplanted into the fights? There's a whole lot of dialogue to cover but not that many fights. Fate is hardly a show about fights. (sweet Jesus HF has about 5 fights but we expect it to cover 3 movies XD). It's not that it should be transplanted into fights, but a fight scene can tell a story. See, half the time, they stop and say "I'm impressed you can do blah blah blah". You can show this by a change of expression, or some surprised look etc. It doesn't need to be spelt out. RinPriest said: Ummmm... Caster can't stop time, I think that was said in the episode wasn't it? She can create a box where things aren't able to move or even distort it to speed stuff up inside of it but she does not have the power to stop time at all. Same as what I said to mirakura. You're just nitpicking my argument when that's not even the issue with what I'm arguing. |
| You might want to stop this before Kaioshin and SolviteSekai shows up again with the whole "cult" and "bully" shticks |
LonelyWizard said: Miraclezify said: If perfection is constantly telling us things we already know, Wrong Miraclezify said: dialogue that doesn't lead anywhere How can you say that if you didnt get spoiled or can see future?It WILL lead somewhere Miraclezify said: perfect episode.and heavy handed foreshadowing then yup, definitely a you think that way,its completely subjective Miraclezify said: Probably the weakest episode of this series so far. subjective Miraclezify said: The fights, which have been a high point of this show, were too short to be any fun even if what they did show was pretty cool. Archer vs Assassin was too much flash so you couldn't see anything as well. Thats a thing,they are too fast for normal human eye,their fights dont drag on 5 episodes like Naruto Miraclezify said: I hope this doesn't become a thing. The show has so much more potential than talking rubbish and not fighting. Oh, and this is probably the first time Shirou has really been in infamous annoying self. Let's hope that doesn't continue either. More subjective opinions Happy? The fuck? This is a discussion thread. Of course what I say is subjective. I'm talking my own opinions and getting bullied for it because you don't agree with them. Apparently any negative subjective opinions means that the person who has them is stating them objectively. |
Miraclezify said: mirakura said: See, Caster CAN'T stop time. He explained that she can use 'True Magic' the 5th True Magic, inside where they are. But you don't know True Magic yet, so just not being able to move, won't explain anything~ Please, that's just a nitpick at my argument. Do I really need to be that specific with what Caster can/can't do for you to understand my argument? We don't need to know about "true magic" yet either. When it shows up, then explain it. We don't need it now. WrongPriest said: All if the dialogue should be transplanted into the fights? There's a whole lot of dialogue to cover but not that many fights. Fate is hardly a show about fights. (sweet Jesus HF has about 5 fights but we expect it to cover 3 movies XD). It's not that it should be transplanted into fights, but a fight scene can tell a story. See, half the time, they stop and say "I'm impressed you can do blah blah blah". You can show this by a change of expression, or some surprised look etc. It doesn't need to be spelt out. RinPriest said: Ummmm... Caster can't stop time, I think that was said in the episode wasn't it? She can create a box where things aren't able to move or even distort it to speed stuff up inside of it but she does not have the power to stop time at all. Same as what I said to mirakura. You're just nitpicking my argument when that's not even the issue with what I'm arguing. Well, I would argue fully, but well, I'm busy, and I need to go. Prepare for my wrath when I come back~! |
The sun is a deadly laser |
Miraclezify said: It's not characterisation when you're espousing things we already know. Caster killing innocents? We found that out last week. That's repeated several times. Archer being similar to Shirou? They repeat that several times as well. If this is meant to be foreshadowing, that's pretty damn heavy handed. It's not about the fact that they talk too much, it's about the fact that they repeat the same thing too much. More dialogue in line with Archer and Shirou's views on justice and ethics are welcome however. So you knew that Caster is not actually trying to kill and she killed some of them because she couldnt adjust the amount of mana she suck?So you knew archer hates Shirou to the degree he will defy his master and try to kill him? you are just being funny now |
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mirakura said: Well, I would argue fully, but well, I'm busy, and I need to go. Prepare for my wrath when I come back~! Don't need to bother. I take breaks from MAL relatively frequently. By the time I'm back, I probably can't find your post any more. |
LonelyWizard said: Miraclezify said: It's not characterisation when you're espousing things we already know. Caster killing innocents? We found that out last week. That's repeated several times. Archer being similar to Shirou? They repeat that several times as well. If this is meant to be foreshadowing, that's pretty damn heavy handed. It's not about the fact that they talk too much, it's about the fact that they repeat the same thing too much. More dialogue in line with Archer and Shirou's views on justice and ethics are welcome however. So you knew that Caster is not actually trying to kill and she killed some of them because she couldnt adjust the amount of mana she suck?So you knew archer hates Shirou to the degree he will defy his master and try to kill him? you are just being funny now Are you just an idiot? At least others are making attempts to argue, but you're just espousing nonsense. The first point, yes. That was said last week. The second point? No, but when did I ever say that EVERY SINGLE THING was repeated? |
Miraclezify said: You clearly missed a good speech from samhiuy about the usage of Subjective and objective opinions...You asked for fair criticism but you cant criticise a %100 personal,biased opinion...im not saying you are wrong,im not attacking you...just saying those are your personal opinions...LonelyWizard said: Wrong How can you say that if you didnt get spoiled or can see future?It WILL lead somewhere perfect episode. you think that way,its completely subjective subjective Thats a thing,they are too fast for normal human eye,their fights dont drag on 5 episodes like Naruto More subjective opinions Happy? The fuck? This is a discussion thread. Of course what I say is subjective. I'm talking my own opinions and getting bullied for it because you don't agree with them. Apparently any negative subjective opinions means that the person who has them is stating them objectively. |
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Miraclezify said: @ Samhiuy: everything that someone posts should technically be their opinion. I shouldn't need to say it, though my criticisms were legitimate. All the counterarguments are just fanboys being assholes and not actually addressing what I'm saying. It's to be expected though. I like Fate, but when it missteps as hard as it does and still gets defended by it's fans as hard as they do, I find that pretty amusing. Not that you had actually intended to listen to what he had to respond with anyway. It was more amusing to have some satirical fun with it. Miraclezify said: So yeah, these guys are being assholes because they can't take any criticism of their favourite show. If they could, they'd at least address the arguments, but they aren't. Characterisation? Please stop using that as an argument. That's the argument everyone uses when a show is boring. There are better ways to characterise than to talk. In fact, fight scenes can help to develop a character, but unfortunately, Fate stops to talk to do this rather than to show it through the fight. When they decide to show it through fighting, people complain that the show is all action and no substance. When they do it through talking, people complain that it's too boring and nothing happens. Both of those have occurred for previous episodes. They just can't win. It's fine if it's not too your liking, but it's not a flaw within the show itself. Miraclezify said: Even little things like telling us Caster can stop time. You can show us this by having Archer being unable to move despite trying desperately to do so for example, but the show decided it was necessary to tell us. The fact that Archer didn't try to desperately move is actually displaying his character. Instead of giving off the impression that he was attempting to escape, he played it cool because he already had a technique in the process. Miraclezify said: Why is it that when someone posts a subjective positive statement, they get a pass, but when someone posts a subjective negative statement (and actually, parts of it are objective when its comes to storytelling), I get bullied by fanboys? If you don't want to get "bullied", then it'd be best if you learned how to express opinions in a non-provocative manner. if you word your posts well enough, you may find fanboys that even agree with you. There are a few things that I actually do agree with you on, but your post just came off as hilariously pretentious. Otherwise I'd have just probably left it alone like I do with most opinions. |
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Miraclezify said: Are you just an idiot? Stay classy MAL. |
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Ketuekigami said: lol,it actually fits if you think about the episode...He is just being a tsundereMiraclezify said: Are you just an idiot? Stay classy MAL. |
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| Well, I'm just glad Fake and Cooking aren't on. Things could have got nasty. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| @Miraclezify I'm actually am a bit sorry about the way we kind of ganged up on you, There's a whole lot of people that are here with great love for the franchise. The OP you commented on almost every other "Perfect" this show has gotten throughout the thread have not been for "A perfect Show". It's been perfect with the view to adaptation, it's exactly what we wanted from the source material transitioning into Anime. As Samhiuy commented, the problem you have is not with the show but the source material, as this is an adaptaion. The conversations, the type of fights and their flow all stem from the type of story this is. It's already set in stone what is to happen, and it's being adapted very well. This is not the show you are looking for, this is simply going in the wrong direction to your tastes and that's ok. You're entitled to that opinion and it's kind of a douche move for us to jump all over it. I'm just saying you're barking up the wrong tree is all. |
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insan3priest said: Well, I'm just glad Fake and Cooking aren't on. Things could have got nasty. I don't. That's about the only time where they're not throwing out passive-aggressive remarks at each other, or an all out nuclear war |
ZeroDragon said: If you don't want to get "bullied", then it'd be best if you learned how to express opinions in a non-provocative manner. if you word your posts well enough, you may find fanboys that even agree with you. There are a few things that I actually do agree with you on, but your post just came off as hilariously pretentious. Otherwise I'd have just probably left it alone like I do with most opinions. I'd prefer you respond in a manner similar to this one. Your points are legit, even if I don't agree with them. I don't believe the second point is true however, but if you say so. In response to this, I don't think my original post was provocative at all. People were calling it perfect, and I responded by saying it had some issues. Of course, they were subjective issues, but some objectively weak storytelling methods were employed as I had pointed out with some repetitive dialogue and heavy handed foreshadowing. The first time I had posted in this forum however, I was also attacked and that one was much less critical of the show and I wasn't responding to anyone. I even said I liked the show, but I didn't like how certain things were done. It's almost as if a negative remark on the show is a direct insult to fans. Trust me, I've tried a more passive approach, it doesn't work on this forum. Might wanna check the definition of "pretentious" as well. If anything, any segment of the Fate franchise is far more pretentious than I could ever be. |
| Well, I do think the "standing around and explain how things work" format that is used at times is a bit.....unnatural. That's an unfortunate side effect of this being an adaptation though as, while show don't tell is generally nice and I believe this series has certainly done this as much as it can, there are times where it isn't quite feasible because they have to get certain bits of information across. Also, I'm thinking this is the first time that anyone has outright stated that Shirou and Archer are "similar"? |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
Miraclezify said: This post of yours is the reason i tried to adress your "criticism" as you wanted...i did not start this conversation to attack you or insult you...i just wanted to adress everything you said 1by1 and tried to counterargument it without being an "asshole",you being overprotective caused lots of quote trees so i will just say this,this is not the show you are looking for,as WrongPriest said...I am actually having a similar conversation with my friend beside me right now and trying to explain him how this is not a "fighting" anime and fights are not the main focus without spoiling much...@ Samhiuy: everything that someone posts should technically be their opinion. I shouldn't need to say it, though my criticisms were legitimate. All the counterarguments are just fanboys being assholes and not actually addressing what I'm saying. It's to be expected though. I like Fate, but when it missteps as hard as it does and still gets defended by it's fans as hard as they do, I find that pretty amusing. Trying to state your opinions is a god thing but try to add that those are your subjective opinions if your post looks like objective but it actually isnt(writing a magical "imo" can change the air of your posts drastically ;) ) TL;DR:This show is probably not for you or what you expect it to be,watch next episodes knowing it or drop... |
LoneWizzyNov 23, 2014 1:58 AM
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| Man, that episode was awesome. We got the bakatsun talk, the drown in your ideals and die, the Tsubame Gaeshi and a great showcase of Saber's instinct, the MOTHERFUCKING SPINNING BOW DRAWING, and Shirou with a new shirt, Fate/Stay Fashionable style. I'm 99.9% satisfied. Only thing I regret is that the exposition at the beginning was so clumsy: all the talk before the fights felt unnatural. And there were maybe one or two moments when I think they could've let the fight do the talking instead of outright stating what was going on screen. |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
WrongPriest said: @Miraclezify I'm actually am a bit sorry about the way we kind of ganged up on you, There's a whole lot of people that are here with great love for the franchise. The OP you commented on almost every other "Perfect" this show has gotten throughout the thread have not been for "A perfect Show". It's been perfect with the view to adaptation, it's exactly what we wanted from the source material transitioning into Anime. As Samhiuy commented, the problem you have is not with the show but the source material, as this is an adaptaion. The conversations, the type of fights and their flow all stem from the type of story this is. It's already set in stone what is to happen, and it's being adapted very well. This is not the show you are looking for, this is simply going in the wrong direction to your tastes and that's ok. You're entitled to that opinion and it's kind of a douche move for us to jump all over it. I'm just saying you're barking up the wrong tree is all. Thanks for this response. And before you think I dislike the show, no, I actually like it, but I disagree with how it's been adapted. I believe there have been changes to the source material though, especially in regards to action and what parts of the dialogue they do show. For that, I respect whatever UFOtable has done, but I'd have preferred them to go further with their own interpretation. My problems probably are most definitely with the source material. I'd just hoped the adaptation would have cleared some of this up. I'll still be watching it, and I'll still be enjoying the show somewhat, but there are many parts I don't agree with, and I'll probably be bringing them up in these episodic threads if I feel the need to. I'd just much prefer some proper counterarguments rather than sarcastic remarks and nitpicking at details in my arguments. Thanks for clearing up the "perfect" thing though. |
RinPriest said: insan3priest said: Also, I'm thinking this is the first time that anyone has outright stated that Shirou and Archer are "similar"? No, someone else stated in episode 5 discussion that they are. I mean in the actual series. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
Miraclezify said: It's almost as if a negative remark on the show is a direct insult to fans. Trust me, I've tried a more passive approach, it doesn't work on this forum. People internalize their interests - I thought that was obvious. We all to some extent see what we like as an extension of our interests. So yes, in a way when you insult something, you insult a part of them (or at least that's how it's perceived). Honestly, must we spoon feed you on the nature of trolls now? Fanboys bitch about criticism - no shit, this is the internet you know. Don't want it to happen to you? Then make sure you make yourself look like someone interested in discussing the issues in a show - not someone bitching about it's flaws. It's called self-reflection people. |
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RinPriest said: insan3priest said: Also, I'm thinking this is the first time that anyone has outright stated that Shirou and Archer are "similar"? No, someone else stated in episode 5 discussion that they are. Miraclezify said: The first time I had posted in this forum however, I was also attacked and that one was much less critical of the show and I wasn't responding to anyone. I even said I liked the show, but I didn't like how certain things were done. It's almost as if a negative remark on the show is a direct insult to fans. Trust me, I've tried a more passive approach, it doesn't work on this forum. Might wanna check the definition of "pretentious" as well. If anything, any segment of the Fate franchise is far more pretentious than I could ever be. Uummmmm, I don't actually ever attack people if you know me but I actually just like to joke around when other people are making good and funny remarks. I do this all the time in other forum sub threads so I can kind of understand how you feel like I'm ganging up on you (I won't talk for other people as I'm not them and their intentions might very well be to gang up on you). So sorry if I came out looking as an asshole but that was not my intention at all. Eh, to be honest, I'm kinda like that too on other forums. But no, I never had a problem with you specifically. I believe you responded to my criticisms in earlier episodes much better than others. Either way, I look forward to what you can say to my future criticisms that hopefully come across as less provocative. |
Ketuekigami said: ThisMiraclezify said: @ Samhiuy: everything that someone posts should technically be their opinion. I shouldn't need to say it, though my criticisms were legitimate. All the counterarguments are just fanboys being assholes and not actually addressing what I'm saying. It's to be expected though. I like Fate, but when it missteps as hard as it does and still gets defended by it's fans as hard as they do, I find that pretty amusing. The problem I see is that you say that it is an opinion, but then you say it shortly after as if it were fact. That's probably what everyone is jumping on. It's hard when someone comes into a forum with fans of something that they believe is doing a phenomenal job and someone says it's factually doing this poorly. The moment you said it is a criticism you invite people to correct you according to their beliefs,then you complain because people are attacking you for your opinion...Its a bait,intentional or unintentional... |
LoneWizzyNov 23, 2014 1:57 AM
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Miraclezify said: @ Samhiuy: everything that someone posts should technically be their opinion. I shouldn't need to say it, though my criticisms were legitimate. All the counterarguments are just fanboys being assholes and not actually addressing what I'm saying. It's to be expected though. I like Fate, but when it missteps as hard as it does and still gets defended by it's fans as hard as they do, I find that pretty amusing. The problem I see is that you say that it is an opinion, but then you say it shortly after as if it were fact. That's probably what everyone is jumping on. It's hard when someone comes into a forum with fans of something that they believe is doing a phenomenal job and someone says it's factually doing this poorly. And its been in almost every episode that someone says something is wrong/bad, the fans explain how it is contrary to that belief, and the first person feels attacked. Yours wasn't as exact as others (plot and character wise that is), but its become such a cycle that its hard on some people. |
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LonelyWizard said: Ketuekigami said: I think you mean to say 'subjective'. But ya, if you come to a forum with this many pages, you should assume that negative input will be responded to. You can't really complain about it because the only part that can be controlled is the way you word your posts. You should never put the burden on others to control themselves because that is foolish. |
KetuekigamiNov 23, 2014 1:59 AM
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Ketuekigami said: Miraclezify said: @ Samhiuy: everything that someone posts should technically be their opinion. I shouldn't need to say it, though my criticisms were legitimate. All the counterarguments are just fanboys being assholes and not actually addressing what I'm saying. It's to be expected though. I like Fate, but when it missteps as hard as it does and still gets defended by it's fans as hard as they do, I find that pretty amusing. The problem I see is that you say that it is an opinion, but then you say it shortly after as if it were fact. That's probably what everyone is jumping on. It's hard when someone comes into a forum with fans of something that they believe is doing a phenomenal job and someone says it's factually doing this poorly. And its been in almost every episode that someone says something is wrong/bad, the fans explain how it is contrary to that belief, and the first person feels attacked. Yours wasn't as exact as others (plot and character wise that is), but its become such a cycle that its hard on some people. As an amateur writer (hopefully one that will be professional one day), I just feel parts of Fate's storytelling objectively badly handled. Like it's literally the "don'ts" they teach you on day 1 of writing class. I won't go on with this any more though. People can enjoy this, but I'm still going to point it out in future if it sticks out to me. |
LonelyWizard said: Ketuekigami said: ThisThe problem I see is that you say that it is an opinion, but then you say it shortly after as if it were fact. That's probably what everyone is jumping on. It's hard when someone comes into a forum with fans of something that they believe is doing a phenomenal job and someone says it's factually doing this poorly. Isnt "criticisms" something that should be more "objective"?Or am i completely wrong on this one?The moment you said it is a criticism you invite people to correct you according to their beliefs...Its a bait,intentional or unintentional... I don't know if that's fair. We praise FSN in an objective-ish tone but we insist on making sure criticism are made clear to be subjective? I don't buy it. I think the actual reason is a lot simpler - if someone doesn't show some measure of respect towards a product we believe deserves it, we will freak out. |
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| It's somewhat amusing to see people say that criticisms towards the series receive crazy backlash when, in the spoiler threads, you see Priests and other fans arguing about things they like and don't like. I guess the anime only viewers don't get to see that side of the fanbase as much, though. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Wow the action this episode was amazing, that bloody crawl was good. Too bad Shirou didnt die Animation was beautiful as well. Everything perfect, we even got a glimpse of Rin |
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| Hmm. They showed a sneak peek of how Archer became a Heroic Spirit. I liked that. And the action was good, VERY good. Can't wait till Shiro becomes badass too. |
Miraclezify said: ZeroDragon said: If you don't want to get "bullied", then it'd be best if you learned how to express opinions in a non-provocative manner. if you word your posts well enough, you may find fanboys that even agree with you. There are a few things that I actually do agree with you on, but your post just came off as hilariously pretentious. Otherwise I'd have just probably left it alone like I do with most opinions. I'd prefer you respond in a manner similar to this one. Your points are legit, even if I don't agree with them. I don't believe the second point is true however, but if you say so. In response to this, I don't think my original post was provocative at all. People were calling it perfect, and I responded by saying it had some issues. Of course, they were subjective issues, but some objectively weak storytelling methods were employed as I had pointed out with some repetitive dialogue and heavy handed foreshadowing. The first time I had posted in this forum however, I was also attacked and that one was much less critical of the show and I wasn't responding to anyone. I even said I liked the show, but I didn't like how certain things were done. It's almost as if a negative remark on the show is a direct insult to fans. Trust me, I've tried a more passive approach, it doesn't work on this forum. Might wanna check the definition of "pretentious" as well. If anything, any segment of the Fate franchise is far more pretentious than I could ever be. I'll deconstruct it for you. Miraclezify said: If perfection is constantly telling us things we already know, dialogue that doesn't lead anywhere and heavy handed foreshadowing then yup, definitely a perfect episode. This is a provocative remark. You took his opinion and bashed it with sarcasm. I saw this and did the same to you. You could have stated it easily in a much more non-provocative manner. This opening paragraph gave your post a certain impression. Miraclezify said: Probably the weakest episode of this series so far. The fights, which have been a high point of this show, were too short to be any fun even if what they did show was pretty cool. Archer vs Assassin was too much flash so you couldn't see anything as well. I hope this doesn't become a thing. Your opinion. Fair enough. I actually agree that two of the three fights were too short to properly enjoy. Miraclezify said: The show has so much more potential than talking rubbish and not fighting. Without your later explanations to clarify it, it comes off as essentially dismissing all dialogue. Miraclezify said: Oh, and this is probably the first time Shirou has really been in infamous annoying self. Let's hope that doesn't continue either. No reason for me to argue. Pretty reasonable. However, you already gave your post a negative impression so it was difficult to take without some underlying meaning. As for your other responses, other people have covered them. I have criticisms of this anime adaptation and the visual novel myself, some of which I've actually vocalized on this forum.Among them include saying that the pacing feels too slow and that there isn't a feeling of urgency yet, but because of the way I phrased it I didn't receive backlash like some other people who've said the same thing but in a more provocative way. |
ZeroDragonNov 23, 2014 2:05 AM
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mickdrew_99 said: Well,its really a part of human nature and i wont deny it...But seriously my main reason i replied to him wasnt that...I simply wanted to answer his "criticism"...He wanted "counter arguments" but overreacted for those counter arguments which are actually much less provocative then his "criticism"I don't know if that's fair. We praise FSN in an objective-ish tone but we insist on making sure criticism are made clear to be subjective? I don't buy it. I think the actual reason is a lot simpler - if someone doesn't show some measure of respect towards a product we believe deserves, we will freak out. The show is objectively good(Animation-wise) all other stuff is completely subjective...But when people say some important parts are bad because they thought it is boring,its just sad...I remember me watching Bakemonogatari first time :/ i missed lots of stuff unintentionally because i didnt knew those were important... |
LoneWizzyNov 23, 2014 2:06 AM
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Miraclezify said: The hell are you talking about? Are you agreeing with me then becoming sarcastic? Or were you sarcastic all the way through? I was being sarcastic. Intended to lighten the mood up but sorry if it came out wrongly. |
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Miraclezify said: As an amateur writer (hopefully one that will be professional one day), I just feel parts of Fate's storytelling objectively badly handled. Like it's literally the "don'ts" they teach you on day 1 of writing class. I won't go on with this any more though. People can enjoy this, but I'm still going to point it out in future if it sticks out to me. Even professional writing is subjective. I have not taken any classes on writing but I have herd professional opinions on the same work be completely different. There are defiantly objectively bad writing techniques but I do not believe FSN is guilty of those. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| About Shirou, if he comes across as overbearing with his "hero complex" well that's the point. Also, and I don't know if the anime got this across well enough or not, but this guy hates to be saved. That's why he was bitching at Archer with the idiot sequence and said something ridiculous like "I can handle myself" when he clearly was out of his league here. If you've ever just said something absolutely ridiculous in hindsight in order to cover for your weaknesses, it's something like that. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| @ MrNTR I wasn't actually talking about the Saber/Assassin fight. But more the first few minutes of conversation between Archer and Caster. I actually liked how Saber's explanation went from in her head to her actually speaking out loud at the end. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
LonelyWizard said: The show is objectively good(Animation-wise) all other stuff is completely subjective...But when people say some important parts are bad because they thought it is boring,its just sad...I remember me watching Bakemonogatari first time :/ i missed lots of stuff unintentionally because i didnt knew those were important... I've experienced that a lot too. Repeat viewings often show that. I actually thought F/Z was boring the first time around. A great show, but too dull. After reading FSN and rewatching, it's now one of my favorites. Can't blame him if he's fallen in that trap. RinPriest said: I think what happened in this thread is everybody jumped on the subjective and objective bandwagon and lost track of everything. People can criticize Fate as much as they want, I invite everyone to do so if they wish. It doesn't matter if it's subjective or objective as people can make their own opinions in whatever way they wish. There is no rule stating an argument about a show can't be made in a objective manner and so refuted as "its just your opinion man". I'll say it right now, objectively I know Mars of Destruction sucks. Do I have to make an argument of why it sucks? No, everyone already made arguments of why it sucks so I don't have to do anything. I criticize this show a lot sometimes too (no monologues, my worry about how they are going to do the 2nd cour with out most of Shirous monologues). But most of the fans on TM agree with me because I give out a detailed argument of my worries and concerns of how Ufotable is going to handle this show. Even when people disagree they joke about my points and call me a 'ArcherFag' and I take it as a joke and laugh it up. TL;DR - It doesn't matter if the argument is subjective or objective, it just differentiates on how much proof and evidence you need on the objective part that is different. I agree with this. You can hate on something all you like, just make sure you have good reasons for doing so. You'll get hate if you don't make those reasons very clear. |
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| we didn't get lightining swordsman, but the OST that played in the beggining was too good, i want the full version. Miraclezify said: ZeroDragon said: If you don't want to get "bullied", then it'd be best if you learned how to express opinions in a non-provocative manner. if you word your posts well enough, you may find fanboys that even agree with you. There are a few things that I actually do agree with you on, but your post just came off as hilariously pretentious. Otherwise I'd have just probably left it alone like I do with most opinions. I'd prefer you respond in a manner similar to this one. Your points are legit, even if I don't agree with them. I don't believe the second point is true however, but if you say so. In response to this, I don't think my original post was provocative at all. People were calling it perfect, and I responded by saying it had some issues. Of course, they were subjective issues, but some objectively weak storytelling methods were employed as I had pointed out with some repetitive dialogue and heavy handed foreshadowing. The first time I had posted in this forum however, I was also attacked and that one was much less critical of the show and I wasn't responding to anyone. I even said I liked the show, but I didn't like how certain things were done. It's almost as if a negative remark on the show is a direct insult to fans. Trust me, I've tried a more passive approach, it doesn't work on this forum. Might wanna check the definition of "pretentious" as well. If anything, any segment of the Fate franchise is far more pretentious than I could ever be. oh god here we go. where you read that something repetitive and "heavy foreshadowing" is "weak story-telling methods", and more importantly, that is objective ? looks like an asspull argument to say "lol my opnion has more weight if i call it is objective". First that repetitive dialogue (in the definiton of a same dialogue appearing over and over again) is a valid method in tons of works, in Umineko for example, it can serve both as a form to give some hint to the readers and because of the context of the work (and to show some characters personality, like Kinzo). but i don't see this applying to F/SN, where is repetitive ? can you point that out ? And since when "heavy foreshadowing" is a problem, since its only hints to what is gonna happen ? (and yet, this argument insn't a critic at all if you see that a foreshadow purpose is to guarantee the readers that something was planned beforehand and it's not just some asspull). and please, don't play the victim, if you want to post in a forum you have to be prepared to be questioned and to be criticized by your opinion, if that bothers you, don't post at all, that is the basic for a discussion, if you think that someone is attacking you for that, sorry, then that is not for you. |
JaogetsuNov 23, 2014 2:44 AM
crimson915 said: insan3priest said: About Shirou, if he comes across as overbearing with his "hero complex" well that's the point. Also, and I don't know if the anime got this across well enough or not, but this guy hates to be saved. That's why he was bitching at Archer with the idiot sequence and said something ridiculous like "I can handle myself" when he clearly was out of his league here. If you've ever just said something absolutely ridiculous in hindsight in order to cover for your weaknesses, it's something like that. I think Shirou was acting pissed off due having Archer be the one who saved him, otherwise he would have gone off on Rin and Saber too. I'm saying he likes being saved, just that his hate for Archer was the precedent for is actions in that scene. Yeah, I'm sure his innate dislike for Archer comes into play as well. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3priest said: Nah,he is just being a tsundere...Archer x Shirou is realcrimson915 said: I think Shirou was acting pissed off due having Archer be the one who saved him, otherwise he would have gone off on Rin and Saber too. I'm saying he likes being saved, just that his hate for Archer was the precedent for is actions in that scene. Yeah, I'm sure his innate dislike for Archer comes into play as well. |
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