RedRoseFring said: Salxer said: You're free to point out what you believe is wrong. Basically everything. Nope. Netanyahu blaming Hamas without a single proof, and Palestinians being killed through the search for the missing kids is a fact. [quote=RedRoseFring] bacchi said: First of all: it is not their homeland. I already showed that with the quote from a Palestinian leader himself. It is a fabrication, and anyone still falling for it needs to do some serious revision of history. Lol, actual evidence for your empty talk would be appreciated. |
SalxerJul 15, 2014 2:19 PM
Salxer said: It began with the kidnapping of three Israeli kids, which Israel/the prime minister of Israel automatically blamed Hamas for WITHOUT A SINGLE PROOF. Hamas denied have anything to do with. lol |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: Salxer said: It began with the kidnapping of three Israeli kids, which Israel/the prime minister of Israel automatically blamed Hamas for WITHOUT A SINGLE PROOF. Hamas denied have anything to do with. lol You can laugh all you want, but this is the facts here, in THIS specific case. You don't know the huge consequences this had that both Israelis and Palestinians are still suffering from though, so no wonder it would make you laugh. BTW Israel's prime minister is also the first one to use the word "revenge" in the Israeli Knesset after the missing teens turned out to be dead, resulting in a huge wave of incitement for Palestinian/arab blood and revenge both online and offline which resulted in the murder of Muhammad Abu Khudair. It's complicated to tell exactly what caused what, but it's clear that not only one party is responsible for how things are right now. |
| It is all about the off shore natural gas that BP have negotiated to withdraw from Gaza with Israel. If you look at the casualty numbers it is obvious this is an act of aggression and not self defense. |
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ReasonDesu said: If you look at the casualty numbers it is obvious this is an act of aggression and not self defense. By that reasoning, the US was the one that first attacked Japan in WWII since the Japanese suffered more losses. Oh wait.....casualty numbers are only an indication of how many people died which could be due to 1) Incompetence to protect them (actually, Hamas wants them to die. It looks good for the press and they get their 72 virgins anyway. It's even in their charter). 2) The other side's determination to protect its own citizens (Like it says: Israel uses shelters to protect its people. Hamas uses its people to protect its weapons). The casualty numbers are just factual proof of Hamas stupidity. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| I don't like any of this....BUT....if Palestine really wants peace, they need to get rid of Hamas. |
Salxer said: StopDropAndBowl said: You can laugh all you want, but this is the facts here, in THIS specific case. You don't know the huge consequences this had that both Israelis and Palestinians are still suffering from though, so no wonder it would make you laugh. I'm not arguing that Hamas denied doing it. I'm laughing at the notion that we should believe them for a second, especially when their denial included praising the killing of the teens and called for more of the same... I know the consequences. I don't know what it's like to have my son ripped from me and brutally murdered by a bunch of terrorist thugs. I doubt many people here do. And I don't know what it's like to have a bunch of Israeli thugs murder my son in retaliation. I can't imagine what either would be like, and quite frankly, I'm grateful that I will almost certainly never have to go through anything like that. But I can laugh when someone starts spitting anti-Semitic propaganda, because I know how utterly absurd it all is. And I know that it only fuels more deaths and more war, and that it doesn't help anyone; and that it hurts the Palestinians most of all. I know that the useful tools who lap up the propaganda because they want to appear to be humanitarians, or want to appear to be fair to both sides... those people are almost worse than the terrorists themselves. The terrorists wouldn't exist without them. Yes, the Israeli PM promised vengeance. What else would you have him do? Should he have looked the grieving mothers in their eyes and lectured them about peace before their son's bodies were even in the ground? Should Israel just allow it's citizens to live in constant fear of attack, rape, murder, and annihilation? Is that the world you want to live in? Because this might be academic for you, but it's a very real threat to them. We're not talking ancient history here. There are Holocaust survivors who are still alive. Genocide isn't something they read about in a fucking history book; they lived it. So when the Arabs, who kill more "Palestinians" than Israel ever has, complain about "overreaction", I tend to start laughing. Those same Arabs will talk about driving Israel into the sea, and speak openly about annihilating the Jews, and they try very hard to follow through with that plan. So who the fuck is overreacting here? |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: Salxer said: You can laugh all you want, but this is the facts here, in THIS specific case. You don't know the huge consequences this had that both Israelis and Palestinians are still suffering from though, so no wonder it would make you laugh. I'm not arguing that Hamas denied doing it. I'm laughing at the notion that we should believe them for a second, especially when their denial included praising the killing of the teens and called for more of the same... I know the consequences. I don't know what it's like to have my son ripped from me and brutally murdered by a bunch of terrorist thugs. I doubt many people here do. And I don't know what it's like to have a bunch of Israeli thugs murder my son in retaliation. I can't imagine what either would be like, and quite frankly, I'm grateful that I will almost certainly never have to go through anything like that. But I can laugh when someone starts spitting anti-Semitic propaganda, because I know how utterly absurd it all is. And I know that it only fuels more deaths and more war, and that it doesn't help anyone; and that it hurts the Palestinians most of all. I know that the useful tools who lap up the propaganda because they want to appear to be humanitarians, or want to appear to be fair to both sides... those people are almost worse than the terrorists themselves. The terrorists wouldn't exist without them. Yes, the Israeli PM promised vengeance. What else would you have him do? Should he have looked the grieving mothers in their eyes and lectured them about peace before their son's bodies were even in the ground? Should Israel just allow it's citizens to live in constant fear of attack, rape, murder, and annihilation? Is that the world you want to live in? Because this might be academic for you, but it's a very real threat to them. We're not talking ancient history here. There are Holocaust survivors who are still alive. Genocide isn't something they read about in a fucking history book; they lived it. So when the Arabs, who kill more "Palestinians" than Israel ever has, complain about "overreaction", I tend to start laughing. Those same Arabs will talk about driving Israel into the sea, and speak openly about annihilating the Jews, and they try very hard to follow through with that plan. So who the fuck is overreacting here? I'm not sure why they would deny it, they have admitted to doing worse in the past, and it's not like they denied it in a nice way. What Netanyahu did was irresponsible, and I can't see it as anything other than that. He knew how resentful and mad the public was and he only made it worse. Even some of the parents of the kids spoke up and tried to calm people down, by saying that killing is wrong on both side, but obviously not everyone agrees with that. Also lol at your terminology: "terrorist thugs" vs "Israeli thugs" because we know being a terrorist is determined by race and/or religion. "in retaliation" because the 15 year old kid was responsible for the murder. I'm not gonna bother replaying to your predictable use of the usual cards, which have nothing to do with the matter at hand as far as I'm concerned. And I'm not sure what's the use of talking about that, many Jewish people also speak openly about annihilating all Palestinians and All arabs (very openly, like going in the streets in hundreds and chanting "death for arabs" while roaming the city looking for arab workers to beat up/ possibly kill if the police wasn't there). |
SalxerJul 16, 2014 4:21 AM
RedRoseFring said: I don't even have the will to point out how stupid this is. You just stay in your little bubble sheepling.ReasonDesu said: If you look at the casualty numbers it is obvious this is an act of aggression and not self defense. By that reasoning, the US was the one that first attacked Japan in WWII since the Japanese suffered more losses. Oh wait.....casualty numbers are only an indication of how many people died which could be due to 1) Incompetence to protect them (actually, Hamas wants them to die. It looks good for the press and they get their 72 virgins anyway. It's even in their charter). 2) The other side's determination to protect its own citizens (Like it says: Israel uses shelters to protect its people. Hamas uses its people to protect its weapons). The casualty numbers are just factual proof of Hamas stupidity. |
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ReasonDesu said: RedRoseFring said: I don't even have the will to point out how stupid this is. You just stay in your little bubble sheepling.By that reasoning, the US was the one that first attacked Japan in WWII since the Japanese suffered more losses. Oh wait.....casualty numbers are only an indication of how many people died which could be due to 1) Incompetence to protect them (actually, Hamas wants them to die. It looks good for the press and they get their 72 virgins anyway. It's even in their charter). 2) The other side's determination to protect its own citizens (Like it says: Israel uses shelters to protect its people. Hamas uses its people to protect its weapons). The casualty numbers are just factual proof of Hamas stupidity. No. You just don't have the intelligence to understand how reasonable that is. Don't confuse the 2 situations. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Salxer said: Actually, what Netanyahu did was very responsible. Compassion is nice, but it should never cloud pragmatic judgement. Feel sorry for the enemy, but don't lie down and let yourself be slaughtered. If there was no response from the Israeli government, what would have happened? You think the killers would think: "Oh, we got away with 3. I guess we should stop now. It's not killing Israelis is all we live for." They encouraged more of the same to be done, so unless they learn that it is not in their best interest to perpetrate such acts, they would just continue ad infinitum. Also, a ceasefire will not help the future. This isn't the first time this has happened. 2008 and 2012 and now 2014. This is becoming a regular cycle, and the only way to stop a cycle is to break it. Hamas must be put down once and for all, because if they manage to escape with a ceasefire like they have done in the past, they will just get more rockets and continue this in another 2 years. Then we will have 2016, 2019, 2021, and so on. A lot of Palestinians have died and will die, but if we let the cycle continue, those same numbers will arrive again in later years. Add those up together and it is just suffering continued on a large scale. End it now so that future generations will not have to suffer Hamas stupidity. And you have pointed out a fundamental difference between the 2 sides here that you are not even able to see for yourself. Israelis are the ones who STOP those crying out "Death to Arabs". Hamas encourages those who cry out "Death to Israel". The difference and problem is so stark and evident, the solution must be as well. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Israelis are the ones who STOP those crying out "Death to Arabs". Hamas encourages those who cry out "Death to Israel". The difference and problem is so stark and evident, the solution must be as well. That's the usual classification in categories. As someone who has been- due to work - in Tel Aviv for a few months and met also people of different 'social-grades' I can tell you that a lot of Israelis have a natural repulsion against Palestinians. That doesn't count for everyone, but the historical events of the last 50/60 years leave their marks. Those incidents also have resulted into the founding of the 'Kach-Movement'. The Kach movement is one of the most militant anti-Arabian groups in Israel. Their spiritual father, the rabbi Meir Kahane, had put to himself by foundation of the movement in 1971 the expulsion of all Palestinians from Israel and the occupied areas. On the territory a Jewish God's state should be established. However, that's one side. On the other hand you are also right. A lot of people in Israel are willing to do anything for peace. They are even established peace-organisations. According to them, it would be the best to give back a part of the land which was taken away from Palastine. However, the government is strictly against it. Actually, the dispute between Israel and Palestine base (mainly) on the events of 1918. In my opinion the separation into an jewish- and arabic-part was simple caprice not only to create the new state which is known as Israel, but to restrict the political and economic influence of the Arabian states. The last part is pretty interesting though, because it didn't end well for our western countries at some time. The oil embargo in 1973 was used as a warning to stop the support of the western countries for Israel. However, It's my belief that whole situation isn't a one-sided thing to begin with. |
Jet_Nice_GuyJul 16, 2014 9:16 AM
Behemoth11 said: RedRoseFring said: Israelis are the ones who STOP those crying out "Death to Arabs". Hamas encourages those who cry out "Death to Israel". The difference and problem is so stark and evident, the solution must be as well. That's the usual classification in categories. As someone who has been- due to work - in Tel Aviv for a few months and met also people of different 'social-grades' I can tell you that a lot of Israelis have a natural repulsion against Palestinians. That doesn't count for everyone, but the historical events of the last 50/60 years leave their marks. Those incidents also have resulted into the founding of the 'Kach-Movement'. The Kach movement is one of the most militant anti-Arabian groups in Israel. Their spiritual father, the rabbi Meir Kahane, had put to himself by foundation of the movement in 1971 the expulsion of all Palestinians from Israel and the occupied areas. On the territory a Jewish God's state should be established. However, that's one side. On the other hand you are also right. A lot of people in Israel are willing to do anything for peace. They are even established peace-organisations. According to them, it would be the best to give back a part of the land which was taken away from Palastine. However, the government is strictly against it. Actually, the dispute between Israel and Palestine base (mainly) on the events of 1918. In my opinion the separation into an jewish- and arabic-part was simple caprice not only to create the new state which is known as Israel, but to restrict the political and economic influence of the Arabian states. The last part is pretty interesting though, because it didn't end well for our western countries at some time. The oil embargo in 1973 was used as a warning to stop the support of the western countries for Israel. However, It's my belief that whole situation isn't a one-sided thing to begin with. You just kind of emphasised my point. There are those in Israel who have let their resentment build, but the government does not support them. Heck, even now Netanyahu is fighting those in his party who simply want him to invade and reoccupy Gaza. And giving back part of the land is the last thing Israel would think of doing now. That's what they did in 2005 with Gaza, and here we are now. Someone else phrased it quite well, and I will repeat here: "You can give the Palestinians land as big as the Solar System, but they won't be satisfied until there is no state of Israel." People really need to read Hamas' charter. The West Bank though it has its problems is still doing fairly well, and Abbas (though his influence is limited) took a good step in recognizing Israel's right to existence. The people of Gaza need to follow suit if they want peace. Of course, this problem will not be changed overnight, and a period of at least 5 years is what I forsee for any lasting peace negotiations. Simply put, this is the 3rd time Hamas is doing this, so to ease the blockade they'll have to prove that they can go for that period of time without attacking Israel and instead help the people of Gaza to establish at least a fledgling economy. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Salxer said: Also lol at your terminology: "terrorist thugs" vs "Israeli thugs" because we know being a terrorist is determined by race and/or religion. No, it's just that not all thugs are terrorists. Hamas is a terrorist organization, hence their thugs are terrorists. That doesn't mean the Israeli murderer is any better, just that they are not definable as "terrorists". I'm not gonna bother replaying to your predictable use of the usual cards, which have nothing to do with the matter at hand as far as I'm concerned. That you don't see the connection speaks volumes about your position here. Anyone who is without the ability to understand cause and effect is doomed to see reality as snapshots and not how it is, a continuum of consequences. The result of this is people like you, uninformed and incapable of understanding even the most basic events. And I'm not sure what's the use of talking about that, many Jewish people also speak openly about annihilating all Palestinians and All arabs And when in history was any such genocide carried out? And when has Israel as a state ever pursued such a policy? And where in Israel's constitution is such a genocide called for and promised? I can find a member of any political group who says racist things, but that doesn't make every political group the equivalent of the Nazi's. Likewise, you can find many Israeli's who do terrible things, or advocate terrible things; but that does not make Israel the equivalent of Hamas. |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: I'm not gonna bother replaying to your predictable use of the usual cards, which have nothing to do with the matter at hand as far as I'm concerned. That you don't see the connection speaks volumes about your position here. Anyone who is without the ability to understand cause and effect is doomed to see reality as snapshots and not how it is, a continuum of consequences. The result of this is people like you, uninformed and incapable of understanding even the most basic events. Nope, it's just shitty excuses made by shitty people. |
| Israel about to make itself hated worldwide if this wasn't the case already http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html |
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| yeah i care and lots of people do i'm a muslim and i care but it's not only a muslim case it's a humanity case !!!!! people are killed thwew children become orphans due to what happen now people lose their famillies people die people get injured people cry and cry and resist and fight so yeah i fucking care it breaks my heart everytime i see pictures of very small children crying their hearts out next to a xorpse of someone loved or an old man who lost his family !!! those are not jews those are zionist terrorist !!! |
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Ame-Drop said: yeah i care and lots of people do i'm a muslim and i care but it's not only a muslim case it's a humanity case !!!!! people are killed thwew children become orphans due to what happen now people lose their famillies people die people get injured people cry and cry and resist and fight so yeah i fucking care it breaks my heart everytime i see pictures of very small children crying their hearts out next to a xorpse of someone loved or an old man who lost his family !!! those are not jews those are zionist terrorist !!! You see, the problem with that is that it disregards some of the fundamental rational points of such a situation. It is good to be compassionate, but don't let that cloud your judgement. The awful truth is that a lot of the Palestinians' problems are self-inflicted (and I'm not even talking about the rockets that misfire and kill their own people), but many people living in comfort get bamboozled by it and forget to address it rationally, thereby falling into the eager hands of those willing to take advantage of them. Simply put: be compassionate, but be strict. Handling the situation while trying to please everyone is going to get you nowhere. It also depends on your goal in the situation. If your primary concern is the death of children, the solution to that is simple: Hamas should stop firing rockets. If you are thinking more long-term for peace and stability of the people, then it gets a bit more complicated and harsher truths will have to be faced. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| Attempted murder is attempted murder, and begets retribution. You poke someone twice your size with a stick, don't flip shit when he eventually punches you in the face. |
| i do ._. |
RedRoseFring said: Ame-Drop said: yeah i care and lots of people do i'm a muslim and i care but it's not only a muslim case it's a humanity case !!!!! people are killed thwew children become orphans due to what happen now people lose their famillies people die people get injured people cry and cry and resist and fight so yeah i fucking care it breaks my heart everytime i see pictures of very small children crying their hearts out next to a xorpse of someone loved or an old man who lost his family !!! those are not jews those are zionist terrorist !!! You see, the problem with that is that it disregards some of the fundamental rational points of such a situation. It is good to be compassionate, but don't let that cloud your judgement. The awful truth is that a lot of the Palestinians' problems are self-inflicted (and I'm not even talking about the rockets that misfire and kill their own people), but many people living in comfort get bamboozled by it and forget to address it rationally, thereby falling into the eager hands of those willing to take advantage of them. Simply put: be compassionate, but be strict. Handling the situation while trying to please everyone is going to get you nowhere. It also depends on your goal in the situation. If your primary concern is the death of children, the solution to that is simple: Hamas should stop firing rockets. If you are thinking more long-term for peace and stability of the people, then it gets a bit more complicated and harsher truths will have to be faced. i agree with you hamas isn't helping at all and the victims are the women and children and the old people .. hamas is wrong but still does that justify what isreal is doing ?? they say they are defending themselves but is it really defending or just finding a reason to kill ?!!! |
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| what hurt most is that it's Ramadan .. muslims all over the world are extremely happy but the gazans are fighting to live .. |
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| .. beside that .. it's all about politics .. all wars are a matter of politic shit .. 500 years ago or let's say 200 were there even a place called isreal !! |
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Ame-Drop said: RedRoseFring said: You see, the problem with that is that it disregards some of the fundamental rational points of such a situation. It is good to be compassionate, but don't let that cloud your judgement. The awful truth is that a lot of the Palestinians' problems are self-inflicted (and I'm not even talking about the rockets that misfire and kill their own people), but many people living in comfort get bamboozled by it and forget to address it rationally, thereby falling into the eager hands of those willing to take advantage of them. Simply put: be compassionate, but be strict. Handling the situation while trying to please everyone is going to get you nowhere. It also depends on your goal in the situation. If your primary concern is the death of children, the solution to that is simple: Hamas should stop firing rockets. If you are thinking more long-term for peace and stability of the people, then it gets a bit more complicated and harsher truths will have to be faced. i agree with you hamas isn't helping at all and the victims are the women and children and the old people .. hamas is wrong but still does that justify what isreal is doing ?? they say they are defending themselves but is it really defending or just finding a reason to kill ?!!! Why not both? I'm pretty sure some politicians in Israel are taking this situation as an opportunity to attack the Palestinians, but there will always be just as many who simply want to protect their own children and families, no matter the cause. From the outlook of things, I do believe Israel is justified in this situation. Everyone can debate around the bush forever, but the truth remains that the solution to stop the killing is simple: Hamas should stop firing rockets. We can deal with whatever injustices have been done after that. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| The Palestine conflict as an analogy: |
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Shiratori99 said: Aren't analogies supposed to simplify things? I got lost somewhere in paragraph 2...The Palestine conflict as an analogy: (though I get the point you are trying to make) |
Jackrabb1t said: Shiratori99 said: Aren't analogies supposed to simplify things? I got lost somewhere in paragraph 2...The Palestine conflict as an analogy: (though I get the point you are trying to make) You could simplify it as "foreigner seizes control of your house and kicks you out", but that wouldn't do the historical facts justice. I suppose you're right though. |
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| I guess Israel is also justified in using internationally banned weapons.. Ame-Drop said: yeah i care and lots of people do i'm a muslim and i care but it's not only a muslim case it's a humanity case !!!!! people are killed thwew children become orphans due to what happen now people lose their famillies people die people get injured people cry and cry and resist and fight so yeah i fucking care it breaks my heart everytime i see pictures of very small children crying their hearts out next to a xorpse of someone loved or an old man who lost his family !!! those are not jews those are zionist terrorist !!! Didn't you know? if civilians didn't want to be killed they should stop living in civilian areas. #Israel |
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Salxer said: I guess Israel is also justified in using internationally banned weapons.. Like? Examples please. Didn't you know? if civilians didn't want to be killed they should stop living in civilian areas. #Israel No. If civilians do not want to be killed, they should: 1) Not elect a ruling party that will only bring death upon them. 2) Not antagonize a strong power that will not stay silent. 3) Allow people to store rockets in their house. 4) Not teach each other and their children that it is good to die as long as it is for "the cause." 5) Not go playing around in the middle of a war. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Shiratori99 said: Jackrabb1t said: Aren't analogies supposed to simplify things? I got lost somewhere in paragraph 2... (though I get the point you are trying to make) You could simplify it as "foreigner seizes control of your house and kicks you out", but that wouldn't do the historical facts justice. I suppose you're right though. That analogy was good for a laugh. Missing quite a lot, understating a lot more, and omitting intent...but still quite entertaining. Ame-Drop said: Nice song, and while I appreciate the feeling that goes behind it, it still made me shake my head at the misconstrued situation. Things will not change until we address the issue as it truly is, not as how we would like it to be. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Salxer said: I guess Israel is also justified in using internationally banned weapons.. Like? Examples please. Cluster bombs? White phosphorus? Not that it matters. International law is a sham anyway. Btw: The Palestinians have also used questionable weaponry: suicide donkeys. I'm sure PETA would like to have a word with them. No. If civilians do not want to be killed, they should: 1) Not elect a ruling party that will only bring death upon them. 2) Not antagonize a strong power that will not stay silent. 3) Allow people to store rockets in their house. 4) Not teach each other and their children that it is good to die as long as it is for "the cause." 5) Not go playing around in the middle of a war. I agree, they really should do that if they don't want to die. But as someone famous once noted, dying for freedom is not so bad after all. |
Shiratori99Jul 19, 2014 8:47 PM
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
RedRoseFring said: Salxer said: I guess Israel is also justified in using internationally banned weapons.. Like? Examples please. Didn't you know? if civilians didn't want to be killed they should stop living in civilian areas. #Israel No. If civilians do not want to be killed, they should: 1) Not elect a ruling party that will only bring death upon them. 2) Not antagonize a strong power that will not stay silent. 3) Allow people to store rockets in their house. 4) Not teach each other and their children that it is good to die as long as it is for "the cause." 5) Not go playing around in the middle of a war. Is that really needed? White phosphorus is the most infamous. Doctors like Mads Gilbert spoke out saying the same banned shit is being used again this time around (have you looked at the bodies? it should be obvious from that). and lol, did you check houses in Gaza to see if they have rockets in them or something? I have little reason to believe this. "Not go play around in the middle of a war" what do you even mean? I hope you don't mean the four kids who were killed recently while playing at the beach (next to the rockets Hamas had lying there, rofl). It's not like their houses are any more safe, where the hell are they supposed to go? stick with your other, slightly better excuses. Excuse 4 is bad too. |
SalxerJul 19, 2014 9:39 PM
Shiratori99 said: Cluster bombs? White phosphorus? Israel hasn't used any of those weapons since Operation Protective Edge began last month. Or are we solely dwelling in the past? But as someone famous once noted, dying for freedom is not so bad after all. As long as you take the enemy's women and children along with you, according to Hamas. Salxer said: and lol, did you check houses in Gaza to see if they have rockets in them or something? I have little reason to believe this. Anyone with common sense knows they do this: "Thursday, the U.N. refugee agency for Palestinians, UNRWA, said a routine check in one of its vacant Gaza schools found about 20 hidden rockets and called on militants to respect the "sanctity and integrity" of U.N. property." It doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to know that Hamas doesn't value life on either side. And of course, the UN remains as impotent as ever. "called on militants to respect"....lol. "Not go play around in the middle of a war" what do you even mean? I hope you don't mean the four kids who were killed recently while playing at the beach (next to the rockets Hamas had lying there, rofl). It's not like their houses are any more safe, where the hell are they supposed to go? stick with your other, slightly better excuses. Excuse 4 is bad too. Really? The hotel the reporters came rushing out of seemed pretty safe. And I guess standing out in the open is a wise choice during a hailstorm just because the umbrella you have is only slightly more protective. Of course, they'd have places to go if Hamas was willing to build bomb shelters instead of tunnels to go and try to kidnap Israelis. Ha. I see. So "excuse 4" as illustrated in these lovely video is bad: I guess you support the teaching of "killing Jews" to children? |
RedRoseFringJul 20, 2014 12:15 AM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: As long as you take the enemy's women and children along with you, according to Hamas. Of course. The more victims, the better. Sadly, the Palestinians are so vastly outmatched that they rarely get any of those pesky Jews and so the death toll of the recent operation stands by some 350:1 now. RedRoseFring said: Anyone with common sense knows they do this: "Thursday, the U.N. refugee agency for Palestinians, UNRWA, said a routine check in one of its vacant Gaza schools found about 20 hidden rockets and called on militants to respect the "sanctity and integrity" of U.N. property." It doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to know that Hamas doesn't value life on either side. And of course, the UN remains as impotent as ever. "called on militants to respect"....lol. I agree, they should just pile up all these rockets on an open field and light a fire, so the Israeli bombers can easily spot and destroy them in a single strike. Might as well just give up then. RedRoseFring said: Of course, they'd have places to go if Hamas was willing to build bomb shelters instead of tunnels to go and try to kidnap Israelis. Oh I'm pretty sure they would if Israel didn't ban the import of cement and other building materials into Gaza :) RedRoseFring said: I guess you support the teaching of "killing Jews" to children? As if orthodox Jews were any better  |
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| Anyone else love Jon Stewart? |
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| ^ I do :) RedRoseFring said: Shiratori99 said: Cluster bombs? White phosphorus? Israel hasn't used any of those weapons since Operation Protective Edge began last month. Or are we solely dwelling in the past? But as someone famous once noted, dying for freedom is not so bad after all. As long as you take the enemy's women and children along with you, according to Hamas. Salxer said: and lol, did you check houses in Gaza to see if they have rockets in them or something? I have little reason to believe this. Anyone with common sense knows they do this: "Thursday, the U.N. refugee agency for Palestinians, UNRWA, said a routine check in one of its vacant Gaza schools found about 20 hidden rockets and called on militants to respect the "sanctity and integrity" of U.N. property." It doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to know that Hamas doesn't value life on either side. And of course, the UN remains as impotent as ever. "called on militants to respect"....lol. "Not go play around in the middle of a war" what do you even mean? I hope you don't mean the four kids who were killed recently while playing at the beach (next to the rockets Hamas had lying there, rofl). It's not like their houses are any more safe, where the hell are they supposed to go? stick with your other, slightly better excuses. Excuse 4 is bad too. Really? The hotel the reporters came rushing out of seemed pretty safe. And I guess standing out in the open is a wise choice during a hailstorm just because the umbrella you have is only slightly more protective. Of course, they'd have places to go if Hamas was willing to build bomb shelters instead of tunnels to go and try to kidnap Israelis. Ha. I see. So "excuse 4" as illustrated in these lovely video is bad: I guess you support the teaching of "killing Jews" to children? Yeah lets put everyone in Gaza in hotels, that's very realistic.. and you think building bomb shelters is as easy as building tunnels? And of course I do not support that, I did not mean teaching kids that entire groups of people deserve to be killed, but I'm not for teaching them "For many people you don't deserve to live, so you'll be killed, oh and you're dying for nothing" either, I'm sure that would help them sleep better at night.. Oh and that Hamas spokesman is dumb tbh, how did that strategy prove itself? the only thing it proved is that it doesn't work. Shiratori99 said: As if orthodox Jews were any better Oh if only it was just orthodox jews, lol http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/16/371556/israel-must-kill-all-palestinian-mothers/ this is not even a particularly unpopular opinion or anything either. but yeah, orthodox jews can be pretty funny. At the time Muhammad Abu Khudair (15 years old, lived in Jerusalem) was killed, one site for them reported everything about the case by calling him "the little terrorist". |
Shiratori99 said: I agree, they should just pile up all these rockets on an open field and light a fire, so the Israeli bombers can easily spot and destroy them in a single strike. Might as well just give up then. That's right, if they don't want their children to die that is. Oh I'm pretty sure they would if Israel didn't ban the import of cement and other building materials into Gaza :) Well.....they've built dozens of tunnels, some 30m deep. You'd think those would be suitable, but I guess they are more suitable for trying to kidnap Israelis. As if orthodox Jews were any better The problem being that those are a minority, while Hamas (and the PLO) are a majority and aren't condemned by their fellows, and are basically the ruling power. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Salxer said: Yeah lets put everyone in Gaza in hotels, that's very realistic.. and you think building bomb shelters is as easy as building tunnels? What? I can't even.....how did 4 boys suddenly become "everyone in Gaza"? Like what? And of course I do not support that, I did not mean teaching kids that entire groups of people deserve to be killed, but I'm not for teaching them "For many people you don't deserve to live, so you'll be killed, oh and you're dying for nothing" either, I'm sure that would help them sleep better at night.. Well you say that....but you are still not willing to accept that Hamas is the problem. Those kids are "dying for nothing" precisely because Hamas won't stop firing rickets and have again rejected another ceasefire. They are in no position to make demands, yet are doing so which is a sign of both stupidity and insanity as it comes at a much heavier cost to their people than to Israel. Oh and that Hamas spokesman is dumb tbh, how did that strategy prove itself? the only thing it proved is that it doesn't work. Unfortunately, that "dumb" spokesman is also one of the most popular that has also corresponded with CNN, and it is obvious that mentality is shared by Hamas at large. You'd truly be naive to think that some of them (and their children) do not voluntarily enlist to be human shields. Shiratori99 said: As if orthodox Jews were any better Oh if only it was just orthodox jews, lol http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/16/371556/israel-must-kill-all-palestinian-mothers/ this is not even a particularly unpopular opinion or anything either. The difference is that that sentiment does not run the country. Netanyahu is still refusing those in his party who simply want to shut off water and food to Gaza and let them rot to death. Try to tell Hamas to bomb an Israeli child hospital and see if there would be any resistance. They'd do it gleefully, and everyone knows what would happen if they laid their hands on a nuclear bomb. They would gladly wipe themselves out as long as they take Israel with them. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: The difference is that that sentiment does not run the country. Netanyahu is still refusing those in his party who simply want to shut off water and food to Gaza and let them rot to death. Try to tell Hamas to bomb an Israeli child hospital and see if there would be any resistance. They'd do it gleefully, and everyone knows what would happen if they laid their hands on a nuclear bomb. They would gladly wipe themselves out as long as they take Israel with them. The difference is that Israel actually has something to lose (international support) and that Hamas doesn't. Israel would be more than happy to turn the world's largest refugee camp into an isolated death camp if it was given a free hand. |
RedRoseFring said: Shiratori99 said: I agree, they should just pile up all these rockets on an open field and light a fire, so the Israeli bombers can easily spot and destroy them in a single strike. Might as well just give up then. That's right, if they don't want their children to die that is. So you want them to live in that overcrowded shithole forever, without any citizenship nor real political representation. Being ruled over by a government that they cannot vote, not being able to import even the most basic of goods or even allowed to leave to emigrate somewhere else. The Gaza strip is an open-air prison, nothing more or less. You are delusional if you think the removal of Hamas from power would change anything. The people of Gaza have been imprisoned there for decades, long before there even was anything like Hamas or the PLO was politically recognized. And at this rate they will still be long after the name Hamas has already been forgotten. Israel is not interested in a sovereign Palestinian state, because they would have to concede lots of land to the Palestinians to make that work. Neither do they want to annex the Palestinian territories and give the Palestinians citizenship, because of their völkisch fantasy of a state solely for ethnic Jews. So if the Palestinians do not do anything, the natural outcome is the indefinite prolongation of the status quo. This is unacceptable for everyone living in Gaza and the West Bank, so military resistance against Israel is perfectly legitimate. Well.....they've built dozens of tunnels, some 30m deep. You'd think those would be suitable, but I guess they are more suitable for trying to kidnap Israelis. Yeah, try to fit some 1.4 million people in those tunnels and then watch them collapse on top of their heads because they didn't have enough cement to make them safe against bomb shockwaves, good luck XD The problem being that those are a minority, while Hamas (and the PLO) are a majority and aren't condemned by their fellows, and are basically the ruling power. Bibi's (former) ruling coalition includes the whole ultra-orthodox, pro-settler, greater israel block. The general Israeli public doesn't protest against them either, because their views are very well accepted. Btw, the power of the orthodox lobby in Israel even materializes itself in the marriage laws:  |
Shiratori99Jul 20, 2014 6:08 PM
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
| just thought i should just share the fact that I was in Israel when they started sending in a lot missiles. Honestly i was so scared for my life. But the Israeli's went about there life like it wasn't a big deal. "it happens a lot, were used to it." Thats fucked up |
Celestrial2 said: just thought i should just share the fact that I was in Israel when they started sending in a lot missiles. Honestly i was so scared for my life. But the Israeli's went about there life like it wasn't a big deal. "it happens a lot, were used to it." Thats fucked up No it isn't. Hardly anyone loses lives to the Hamas missile attacks- in fact it's practically a joke, just look at the numbers- Israel's had more than enough time and money to set up a defense system, and it's been working just fine. |
Sweet_Love said: Have you been to Israel? Talked to Israelis? Heck, just looked at (modern) Israeli history?RedRoseFring said: The difference is that that sentiment does not run the country. Netanyahu is still refusing those in his party who simply want to shut off water and food to Gaza and let them rot to death. Try to tell Hamas to bomb an Israeli child hospital and see if there would be any resistance. They'd do it gleefully, and everyone knows what would happen if they laid their hands on a nuclear bomb. They would gladly wipe themselves out as long as they take Israel with them. The difference is that Israel actually has something to lose (international support) and that Hamas doesn't. Israel would be more than happy to turn the world's largest refugee camp into an isolated death camp if it was given a free hand. Israel doesn't care about the international community as much as its own people. The international community has almost always failed to live up to its supposed obligations when Israel was involved. You can see it time and again. As such, Israel doesn't care about what other nations think. France abandoned them at least three times. Germany twice. The UK's history with them is one giant abdication. The US didn't even start materially supporting them until the 1960s. The UN can't even follow its own resolutions (Israel is the only party that followed the 2006 one on Lebanon), and is a hotbed of anti-Semitism. They're already pretty much an international pariah. However, Israelis are intelligent and liberal-minded in general. Israelis don't like war and violence. And believe it or not, there is very strong internal pressure for peace initiatives and nonviolent defense, which is part of why so much was invested in Iron Dome - a phenomenally expensive system for what it actually does. Heck, in 2006, Olmert's regime was heavily investigated and chastised for the 2006 Lebanon War, even as Israelis continued to assert themselves internationally. The truth is, if there were clear signs that it would not turn into another Gaza, they'd be completely out of the West Bank in a matter of weeks. |
Sweet_Love said: The difference is that Israel actually has something to lose (international support) and that Hamas doesn't. Israel would be more than happy to turn the world's largest refugee camp into an isolated death camp if it was given a free hand. International support is a paltry worry in the long run. It's no secret that a lot of nations are hypocrites. Shiratori99 said: So you want them to live in that overcrowded shithole forever, without any citizenship nor real political representation. Being ruled over by a government that they cannot vote, not being able to import even the most basic of goods or even allowed to leave to emigrate somewhere else. The Gaza strip is an open-air prison, nothing more or less. Well.....the last time I checked, they were free to elect political parties (unless you view Hamas as an entity that is immune to change, then this conversation will get us nowhere anyway). There are step to follow for freedom, and all they need is the willingness to take those steps. Stopping the export of suicide bombers and terrorists would be a great start (unless again you think that is impossible, then you reduce them to less than animals incapable of decency). I won't deny that Gaza is a prison, but for very obvious reasons. No country on this planet would gladly accept an influx of suicide bombers into its restaurants. Do not forget that there was a time when the blockade was lax, but all Israel received from that was destruction. You are delusional if you think the removal of Hamas from power would change anything. The people of Gaza have been imprisoned there for decades, long before there even was anything like Hamas or the PLO was politically recognized. And at this rate they will still be long after the name Hamas has already been forgotten. Of course Hamas removal wouldn't change much, but the number of dead Palestinians would reduce greatly for a start. The only way lasting change is possible is if the Palestinians get with the program like the rest of the world to realize that their hate is getting them nowhere. Israel is not interested in a sovereign Palestinian state, because they would have to concede lots of land to the Palestinians to make that work. Neither do they want to annex the Palestinian territories and give the Palestinians citizenship, because of their völkisch fantasy of a state solely for ethnic Jews. So if the Palestinians do not do anything, the natural outcome is the indefinite prolongation of the status quo. This is unacceptable for everyone living in Gaza and the West Bank, so military resistance against Israel is perfectly legitimate. Israel is not interested in a sovereign Palestinian state because their main goal remains the destruction of Israel.I think that is a pretty good reason for anyone to not want such a state at their doorstep. As I have said before: if the Palestinians drop their arms and take up the task of building a stable economy for themselves, the world may start to reconsider. Yeah, try to fit some 1.4 million people in those tunnels and then watch them collapse on top of their heads because they didn't have enough cement to make them safe against bomb shockwaves, good luck XD As always, the primary solution to that would be to stop firing rockets. Secondly, what would be the point of stuffing all citizens in there? I didn't know all 7 million Israelis ran into bomb shelters. Don't act oblivious on purpose. The tunnels would only have to support a few at a time, just like the schools currently serving as refuge. Bibi's (former) ruling coalition includes the whole ultra-orthodox, pro-settler, greater israel block. The general Israeli public doesn't protest against them either, because their views are very well accepted. Btw, the power of the orthodox lobby in Israel even materializes itself in the marriage laws. Interesting. I don't remember the last time Bibi came to the podium to shout "death to all Arabs" or "death to Palestinians",and carry that out in action. o_O Are we missing something there? I also did not know that marriage laws were equivalent to documented attempted genocide. The things we learn, eh? |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: International support is a paltry worry in the long run. It's no secret that a lot of nations are hypocrites. WELL, GEE, GUESS WHY THE FUCK ISRAEL LOOSENED ITS BLOCKADE ON GAZA IN 2010. RedRoseFring said: Israel is not interested in a sovereign Palestinian state because their main goal remains the destruction of Israel.I think that is a pretty good reason for anyone to not want such a state at their doorstep. ... That is a ludicrous argument. If that's how you want to make your case, then Israel would have forced a more "permanant" solution onto Palestine/Gaza a long time ago. But seriously, you keep repeating this point of "stop the rockets" yet you fail to mention what that would accomplish. Nil. That in itself is a bit of a problem, no? |
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| I think it's pretty pointless to continue arguing with someone who considers all Palestinians to be suicide bombers lol If you are not able to view Palestinians and Jews as equal human beings, then the case is already lost on you. |
Shiratori99Jul 20, 2014 10:15 PM
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Sweet_Love said: WELL, GEE, GUESS WHY THE FUCK ISRAEL LOOSENED ITS BLOCKADE ON GAZA IN 2010. Because Israel cares more about the people there than Hamas ever will. ... That is a ludicrous argument. If that's how you want to make your case, then Israel would have forced a more "permanant" solution onto Palestine/Gaza a long time ago. But seriously, you keep repeating this point of "stop the rockets" yet you fail to mention what that would accomplish. Nil. That in itself is a bit of a problem, no? "Ludicrous argument?" Ha! You're kidding right? Have you read Hamas' charter? Or heard/read the speeches of the PLO leaders? I think I posted it before, but here you go: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp Take as much time as you need to read it. It includes such wonderful points as subjugating the world under Islam, dying for Allah as the "loftiest" wish, solidarity with other Islamic terrorist groups like Boko Haram and ISIS, and education of Jew hatred. Again, Israel doesn't just wipe them out because all they are concerned about is peace and security for their own people, not the destruction of another. If that were the case, Gaza would be devoid of life by now and renovated into a blooming paradise a few years later in Israeli style. "What would that accomplish?" You seem to only have read my comments halfway: an end to the current death of Gazans. You can argue about lasting peace, injustice and oppression after that, but that single FACT remains. Israel has already adhered to 3 ceasefires this month while Hamas kept launching rockets. UNLESS: Are you saying that Israel will not stop an attack if Hamas stops firing rockets? |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Shiratori99 said: I think it's pretty pointless to continue arguing with someone who considers all Palestinians to be terrorists lol And who might that be? o_O StopDropandBowl hasn't commented for hours. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
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