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MarthX said: I'm fine with people accepting the witch and thinking she did it but if you insult the series or belittle it then it makes me want to smack you with spoilers to show how little that you know. Don't act like that you know everything. The real story has just started. Who's belittling? D: |
Foggle said: MarthX said: I'm fine with people accepting the witch and thinking she did it but if you insult the series or belittle it then it makes me want to smack you with spoilers to show how little that you know. Don't act like that you know everything. The real story has just started. Who's belittling? D: My post was in reponse to posts like xoxo's |
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MarthX said: Foggle said: MarthX said: I'm fine with people accepting the witch and thinking she did it but if you insult the series or belittle it then it makes me want to smack you with spoilers to show how little that you know. Don't act like that you know everything. The real story has just started. Who's belittling? D: My post was in reponse to posts like xoxo's Ah, didn't see that one. |
vinesage said: Zedrane said: vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. are u saying that, laughing at corpses of your relatives whose faces are completely torn apart, isnt sick? I'd say Maria is the one of the sickest character i have seen and by far sicker than this serial murderer they are after. If i must define the evil in this show then it is definitely called maria.... and evil does, most of the time, deserve their suitable end (and i didnt see her end) I don't want to spoil you but you can rewatch everything that Maria has said or done. She isn't an evil person. She truly trusts Beatrice and waits for the opening of the Golden Land. Since she 100% believes in Beatrice those deaths aren't something bad for her. She has always tried to help Battler, from her point of view. Make yourself believe in Beatrice and the twilights then see if you're not happy when all the dead get resurrected and sent into a Utopia. I only summarized what you could have learned from Episode 1 (first arc) if you had paid more attention to Maria's goals, not her means. Also, don't judge her before you get to learn about her, which will happen. |
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| yeah kinda strange but it think its totally fine, since this is a show which confronts logic with magic. so even the bad ending stuff was amusing for me at least. rika <3 i mean bernkastel but cool act^^ since the witches finally showed up it will begin to be really interesting now. |
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MarthX said: kameko14 said: I'm so confused.. can someone explain this episode to me without spoiling anything? You're all discussing things that make no sense to me o.o Everyone died. The scene you saw afterward was a place called Purgatorio where Battler goes against Beatrice Battler tries to prove that everything can be explained with human tricks Beatrice tries to prove that it's impossible for humans, forcing him to accept that it was a witch with magic. Purgatorio is a different world/dimension. The fact that Beatrice exists there does not prove that she exists in the world of Rokkenjima and that she was the culprit behind everything. This is just the premise. The real story of Umineko has begun. There are many twists, turns and surprises in the future. Sit back and enjoy the ride, because you're in for a hell of a ride. I understand that the purgatory area is a completly different world, but like Xoxo above me, mentioned the fact that everybody remembers their deaths and experiences thereof, so in this purgatory, is meant to be the main setting wherein Battler tries to prove Beatrice wrong, and Beatrice trys to do the opposite, and they need to know how the deaths occured and what not to prove it or something similar... because I just don't understand why they all remembered. If a VN Reader can shed some light on this, it would be apprecieated. |
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Kiseki said: yeah kinda strange but it think its totally fine, since this is a show which confronts logic with magic. so even the bad ending stuff was amusing for me at least. rika <3 i mean bernkastel but cool act^^ since the witches finally showed up it will begin to be really interesting now. That fucker is Rika with a teleporter. Witches =/= real. I will not believe! )': |
| *ignores all spoilers*, i'm interested to see how he plans to explain these inplausible situations. |
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| I had not answered any of the mysteries but I might have given a little too much information. Rufusruferson said: Actually I think I put in a little too much information so read it at your own risk. MarthX said: kameko14 said: I'm so confused.. can someone explain this episode to me without spoiling anything? You're all discussing things that make no sense to me o.o Everyone died. The scene you saw afterward was a place called Purgatorio where Battler goes against Beatrice Battler tries to prove that everything can be explained with human tricks Beatrice tries to prove that it's impossible for humans, forcing him to accept that it was a witch with magic. Purgatorio is a different world/dimension. The fact that Beatrice exists there does not prove that she exists in the world of Rokkenjima and that she was the culprit behind everything. This is just the premise. The real story of Umineko has begun. There are many twists, turns and surprises in the future. Sit back and enjoy the ride, because you're in for a hell of a ride. I understand that the purgatory area is a completly different world, but like Xoxo above me, mentioned the fact that everybody remembers their deaths and experiences thereof, so in this purgatory, is meant to be the main setting wherein Battler tries to prove Beatrice wrong, and Beatrice trys to do the opposite, and they need to know how the deaths occured and what not to prove it or something similar... because I just don't understand why they all remembered. If a VN Reader can shed some light on this, it would be apprecieated. Foggle said: Kiseki said: yeah kinda strange but it think its totally fine, since this is a show which confronts logic with magic. so even the bad ending stuff was amusing for me at least. rika <3 i mean bernkastel but cool act^^ since the witches finally showed up it will begin to be really interesting now. That fucker is Rika with a teleporter. Witches =/= real. I will not believe! )': Once again. |
TsunamiJul 30, 2009 9:53 AM
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| So, I went to sleep thinking so much about the show that I even dreamed about it. Like hopper jp said, I thought about what Higurashi was at its core. About Oyashiro (or whatever)-sama being blamed for the deaths and then the actual culprit being a disease that Rika was trying to stop with the abilities she has from Hanyuu and (maybe) Bernkastel. What I came to the conclusion was that not once was it ever a mystery about how someone died, it was always "what made these people snap" and "who's going to be the snapper this go around?" Oyashiro was the explanation for that. What we have in Umineko is a totally different case. We have people who were murdered, some in very hard to explain situations, and from the very beginning, we're told that a witch exists. Not only that, we've seen golden butterflies out the wazoo on this show, and finally, we have this last episode. Whether or not Purgatorio is removed from the "game board" (a stupid way of putting it) doesn't matter, the fact is that Beatrice showed herself to them, so by that nature, she just does exist. Someone mentioned that we can't trust anything Battler doesn't see, well, thats fine, but still doesn't explain the golden butterflies that split into four or five at the end of the first half. Moreover, I wonder why no one can seem to remember their killer. Especially Shannon and Kanon, which is why, again, I feel like they aren't saying all that they can, and why Battler can't outright disprove her existence with his death. Lastly, if we look at Umineko as a second installation in a series, if Beatrice does not exist, then by proxy, neither does Bernkastel, totally nullifying everything that happened in Higurashi. It makes sense (to me anyways) to bridge these worlds together with the witches, which I almost feel is a more important story than that of Battler refuting Beatrice's existence. I'll respond to a couple of comments that happened while I was gone. Kantarou said: You could think of it this way as well: Beatrice the Golden Witch exists, but the murders on Rokkenjima are committed by humans using her name and legend as a cover. The possibilities so far are endless until the answer arcs come out. That's all part of the fun, to guess what really occured in some scenes and etc. As I said, refuting Beatrice's existence flies in the face of almost everything that was bothered to have been presented. If she doesn't exist, what are we left with? A story where the first five episodes had barely any meaning, with shoddy characters. I think that the fake out doesn't have to do with Beatrice's existence, but more to do with some of the character's roles in the fake out and the relationship between Beatrice/Bernkastel, and whoever it was she was rhetorically talking to at the end of the episode. SilentXenocide said: The point isn't whether or not magic exists. It's whether or not the murders were carried out by a human. Keep a few things in mind. On the island, you cannot trust what other people see unless Battler is around. Just because you see Kanon die in the boiler room for example doesn't necessarily mean that's the way things go down. Also, Battler himself never sees the witch while on the island while the murders take place. If the witch existed, she could just simply show magic to him on the island to prove magic exists. As the show goes on, you'll see it isn't as simple as the witch is the culprit. Well, I think everything I want to say, I've already said at the beginning of the post...again, it seems to me that you already have it in your head that this mystery works the same as Higurashi. I don't think it does. I think we are supposed to carry some of our knowledge of that world over to this in order to be closer to solving the mystery. On an unrelated note, When exactly do both of these shows happen? Higurashi uses the Japanese way of telling when the year is (Showa something?) so I've totally forgotten when. It's around June or July (summertime) of somewhere in the 80's? And this is summer of 86? |
Tsunami said: Foggle said: That fucker is Rika with a teleporter. Witches =/= real. I will not believe! )': Once again. Don't worry, I'm just being retarded for the sake of it. AceSoldia said: *ignores all spoilers* Best way to do that is to never go onto any boards or threads with "Umineko" in the title. I've already had the first three fucking VNs spoiled for me. :| |
noteDhero said: So, I went to sleep thinking so much about the show that I even dreamed about it. Like hopper jp said, I thought about what Higurashi was at its core. About Oyashiro (or whatever)-sama being blamed for the deaths and then the actual culprit being a disease that Rika was trying to stop with the abilities she has from Hanyuu and (maybe) Bernkastel. What I came to the conclusion was that not once was it ever a mystery about how someone died, it was always "what made these people snap" and "who's going to be the snapper this go around?" Oyashiro was the explanation for that. What we have in Umineko is a totally different case. We have people who were murdered, some in very hard to explain situations, and from the very beginning, we're told that a witch exists. Not only that, we've seen golden butterflies out the wazoo on this show, and finally, we have this last episode. Whether or not Purgatorio is removed from the "game board" (a stupid way of putting it) doesn't matter, the fact is that Beatrice showed herself to them, so by that nature, she just does exist. Someone mentioned that we can't trust anything Battler doesn't see, well, thats fine, but still doesn't explain the golden butterflies that split into four or five at the end of the first half. Moreover, I wonder why no one can seem to remember their killer. Especially Shannon and Kanon, which is why, again, I feel like they aren't saying all that they can, and why Battler can't outright disprove her existence with his death. Lastly, if we look at Umineko as a second installation in a series, if Beatrice does not exist, then by proxy, neither does Bernkastel, totally nullifying everything that happened in Higurashi. It makes sense (to me anyways) to bridge these worlds together with the witches, which I almost feel is a more important story than that of Battler refuting Beatrice's existence. I'll respond to a couple of comments that happened while I was gone. Kantarou said: You could think of it this way as well: Beatrice the Golden Witch exists, but the murders on Rokkenjima are committed by humans using her name and legend as a cover. The possibilities so far are endless until the answer arcs come out. That's all part of the fun, to guess what really occured in some scenes and etc. As I said, refuting Beatrice's existence flies in the face of almost everything that was bothered to have been presented. If she doesn't exist, what are we left with? A story where the first five episodes had barely any meaning, with shoddy characters. I think that the fake out doesn't have to do with Beatrice's existence, but more to do with some of the character's roles in the fake out and the relationship between Beatrice/Bernkastel, and whoever it was she was rhetorically talking to at the end of the episode. SilentXenocide said: The point isn't whether or not magic exists. It's whether or not the murders were carried out by a human. Keep a few things in mind. On the island, you cannot trust what other people see unless Battler is around. Just because you see Kanon die in the boiler room for example doesn't necessarily mean that's the way things go down. Also, Battler himself never sees the witch while on the island while the murders take place. If the witch existed, she could just simply show magic to him on the island to prove magic exists. As the show goes on, you'll see it isn't as simple as the witch is the culprit. Well, I think everything I want to say, I've already said at the beginning of the post...again, it seems to me that you already have it in your head that this mystery works the same as Higurashi. I don't think it does. I think we are supposed to carry some of our knowledge of that world over to this in order to be closer to solving the mystery. On an unrelated note, When exactly do both of these shows happen? Higurashi uses the Japanese way of telling when the year is (Showa something?) so I've totally forgotten when. It's around June or July (summertime) of somewhere in the 80's? And this is summer of 86? Higurashi's main story took place in June 1983. Umineko's main story takes place in October 1986. |
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Tsunami said: If a king sacrifices 30,000 of his people because he believes magic/god will thus bless his kingdom, can his action be excused by what he believes? And as another poster referenced to death note earlier: why was Yagami Light considered a villain when he actually does believe in justice and good? because his action can not be excused by any believe he has, so does Maria. Her behavior, up to this point, can not be excused by whatever she really believes. For me, she is designed to be the reflection of evil, but, as you said, maybe i am judging a bit early since the interesting part is starting now according to what many ppl postedI don't want to spoil you but you can rewatch everything that Maria has said or done. She isn't an evil person. She truly trusts Beatrice and waits for the opening of the Golden Land. Since she 100% believes in Beatrice those deaths aren't something bad for her. She has always tried to help Battler, from her point of view. Make yourself believe in Beatrice and the twilights then see if you're not happy when all the dead get resurrected and sent into a Utopia. I only summarized what you could have learned from Episode 1 (first arc) if you had paid more attention to Maria's goals, not her means. Also, don't judge her before you get to learn about her, which will happen. |
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vinesage said: I didn't say that what she has done so far is right. Wait, why am I even starting to explain on Maria. Just watch it, it will all be revealed.Tsunami said: If a king sacrifices 30,000 of his people because he believes magic/god will thus bless his kingdom, can his action be excused by what he believes? And as another poster referenced to death note earlier: why was Yagami Light considered a villain when he actually does believe in justice and good? because his action can not be excused by any believe he has, so does Maria. Her behavior, up to this point, can not be excused by whatever she really believes. For me, she is designed to be the reflection of evil, but, as you said, maybe i am judging a bit early since the interesting part is starting now according to what many ppl postedI don't want to spoil you but you can rewatch everything that Maria has said or done. She isn't an evil person. She truly trusts Beatrice and waits for the opening of the Golden Land. Since she 100% believes in Beatrice those deaths aren't something bad for her. She has always tried to help Battler, from her point of view. Make yourself believe in Beatrice and the twilights then see if you're not happy when all the dead get resurrected and sent into a Utopia. I only summarized what you could have learned from Episode 1 (first arc) if you had paid more attention to Maria's goals, not her means. Also, don't judge her before you get to learn about her, which will happen. |
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| As I said earlier, Maria is a mystery. Visual novel players know more about her but there's still a lot we don't know. |
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| First arc was pretty cool. Tamura voicing Bern was perfect <3 |
vinesage said: Tsunami said: If a king sacrifices 30,000 of his people because he believes magic/god will thus bless his kingdom, can his action be excused by what he believes? And as another poster referenced to death note earlier: why was Yagami Light considered a villain when he actually does believe in justice and good? because his action can not be excused by any believe he has, so does Maria. Her behavior, up to this point, can not be excused by whatever she really believes. For me, she is designed to be the reflection of evil, but, as you said, maybe i am judging a bit early since the interesting part is starting now according to what many ppl postedvinesage said: Zedrane said: vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. are u saying that, laughing at corpses of your relatives whose faces are completely torn apart, isnt sick? I'd say Maria is the one of the sickest character i have seen and by far sicker than this serial murderer they are after. If i must define the evil in this show then it is definitely called maria.... and evil does, most of the time, deserve their suitable end (and i didnt see her end) I don't want to spoil you but you can rewatch everything that Maria has said or done. She isn't an evil person. She truly trusts Beatrice and waits for the opening of the Golden Land. Since she 100% believes in Beatrice those deaths aren't something bad for her. She has always tried to help Battler, from her point of view. Make yourself believe in Beatrice and the twilights then see if you're not happy when all the dead get resurrected and sent into a Utopia. I only summarized what you could have learned from Episode 1 (first arc) if you had paid more attention to Maria's goals, not her means. Also, don't judge her before you get to learn about her, which will happen. Maria didn't get too warm of a reception among VN crowds until at least EP4, when her past was extensively covered. Up until this point in the anime (end of EP1), I can see where you're coming from, as Maria is undoubtedly designed to be the "creepy weird kid" of Umineko. Though they did overdo the facial expressions a bit in the anime version. Though this has to be said Maria believed that Beatrice and magic exists. So to her, dying isn't much of a problem since everyone will be revived at the end. Instead of panicking and trying to figure out who the murderer is (she believes that it's Beatrice who is opening the door to the golden land), its far more constructive to go with the flow and not suspecting the existence of Beatrice. Plus, so far she only did "creepy" things (facial expressions) other than chasing down Battler with a knife wanting to kill him or something like that. So to say that she's evil, IMO, is too harsh of a term. Creepy and scary, prehaps; but definitely not evil. |
mouselmmJul 30, 2009 10:33 AM
J3T said: This series is bit confusing, but quite interesting. Can't wait to see the next arc. Lol, I hope you like being confused. Otherwise you won't like this show at all. |
| /me is amused at the amount of people who have already accepted the witch They really should have made it more clear that the 2nd half of the episode wasn't in the real world. And about Bernkastel, didn't Ryukishi say something about the Umineko Bernkastel not being the same as the Higurashi Bernkastel? I don't think Umineko and Higurashi are really related. |
hirahira said: /me is amused at the amount of people who have already accepted the witch This is gonna' be bad for business. hirahira said: They really should have made it more clear that the 2nd half of the episode wasn't in the real world. It was obvious enough. The one thing this show shouldn't do is beat people over the head with what's going on. |
hirahira said: /me is amused at the amount of people who have already accepted the witch. Now that I think about it, I was pretty anti-mystery for a good portion of Ep2. It wasn't until near the end when I started seeing the use of POVs (sadly lacking in the anime because of its medium) and the explanation of magic's possible existence in Ep3 that I became anti-fantasy. So give it some time, I'm sure more people will end up switching sides. *cackle**cackle**cackle* |
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hirahira said: /me is amused at the amount of people who have already accepted the witch less work for Beato & co. =3 |
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mouselmm said: Yes that's mainly the reason that Maria is getting this harsh treatment. VN players got to see all the sides of her with the creepy ones only showing during times of the incidents which were not common. lets say out of 30 hours 1 was Maria beeing creepy. Since it was all pushed into a 20 minutes episode (per twilight) they only get to see creepy Maria.vinesage said: Tsunami said: If a king sacrifices 30,000 of his people because he believes magic/god will thus bless his kingdom, can his action be excused by what he believes? And as another poster referenced to death note earlier: why was Yagami Light considered a villain when he actually does believe in justice and good? because his action can not be excused by any believe he has, so does Maria. Her behavior, up to this point, can not be excused by whatever she really believes. For me, she is designed to be the reflection of evil, but, as you said, maybe i am judging a bit early since the interesting part is starting now according to what many ppl postedvinesage said: Zedrane said: vinesage said: LOL?? what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes.... and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically) ps: preview http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard. are u saying that, laughing at corpses of your relatives whose faces are completely torn apart, isnt sick? I'd say Maria is the one of the sickest character i have seen and by far sicker than this serial murderer they are after. If i must define the evil in this show then it is definitely called maria.... and evil does, most of the time, deserve their suitable end (and i didnt see her end) I don't want to spoil you but you can rewatch everything that Maria has said or done. She isn't an evil person. She truly trusts Beatrice and waits for the opening of the Golden Land. Since she 100% believes in Beatrice those deaths aren't something bad for her. She has always tried to help Battler, from her point of view. Make yourself believe in Beatrice and the twilights then see if you're not happy when all the dead get resurrected and sent into a Utopia. I only summarized what you could have learned from Episode 1 (first arc) if you had paid more attention to Maria's goals, not her means. Also, don't judge her before you get to learn about her, which will happen. Maria didn't get too warm of a reception among VN crowds until at least EP4, when her past was extensively covered. Up until this point in the anime (end of EP1), I can see where you're coming from, as Maria is undoubtedly designed to be the "creepy weird kid" of Umineko. Though they did overdo the facial expressions a bit in the anime version. Though this has to be said Maria believed that Beatrice and magic exists. So to her, dying isn't much of a problem since everyone will be revived at the end. Instead of panicking and trying to figure out who the murderer is (she believes that it's Beatrice who is opening the door to the golden land), its far more constructive to go with the flow and not suspecting the existence of Beatrice. Plus, so far she only did "creepy" things (facial expressions) other than chasing down Battler with a knife wanting to kill him or something like that. So to say that she's evil, IMO, is too harsh of a term. Creepy and scary, prehaps; but definitely not evil. On another note, Happy Halloween Maria! *cackle* |
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| Wow, another awesome episode, I'm liking this show more and more. Concerning this whole "the witch exists!" (or not) thing, if it's like Higurashi, I'm pretty sure Beatrice and co. do exist in another dimension, just like Bernkastel observing the events of summer 1983. That doesn't mean that all the crimes on the island can't be explained without magic, after all they did give us a pseudo-scientific conspiracy theory ending in Higurashi that didn't have anything to do with magic, except maybe for Hanyuu's existence. Note to self : stopping reading these Umineko anime discussion threads, too many spoilers. -_- |
| gyaahh, beato makes her appearance along with lady bern!!! animation does not disappoint. i love the golden butterflies X3 --- and people should stop picking on maria. i admit that maria wasn't my most favorite character (even then i liked beatrice the portrait) in the 1st episode of the VN but it's not like i wanted her to die. I liked her eccentric-ness. I started liking her in the 2nd episode of the VN. i feel so sad for her. |
DearFutureJul 30, 2009 11:02 AM
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Tsunami said: On another note, Happy Halloween Maria! *cackle* Oh, yes. That will be episode 7 I'm guessing. Bwahahahahaha! |
| I wish they had the pacing of the first two episodes like this one. |
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| Really good episode. Just what I expected (I'm reading the SN as the anime airs). As for anti-fantasy/anti-mystery... I like to think of Umineko as taking place in the old World of Darkness, and Battler is just creating an huge amount of Paradox all over the place which in turn causes the magic to backlash against everyone, lol. Otherwise, I don't think "a witch did it" would make the series interesting, so I'll keep watching for all the "human only" explanations (including the meme that gets mentioned a lot). |
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Plate said: Sure is using lever action rifles with no lever action. Actually I re watched that scene and if you look closely Battler pulls the lever to eject the cartridge at the exact same time he pulls the hammer back. His arm moves in front of the lever so it's hard to see though. |
| Jeez, where did all of you guys get the visual novel? |
titanguy654 said: Jeez, where did all of you guys get the visual novel? You can buy it from Himaya Shop or download it. I think NyaaTorrents has it. |
| http://www.witch-hunt.com/hist.html ^ this makes me even more sure that's a human behind it all |
| I am just so lost now. |
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| Nipah~ Great episode, very entertaining until the end. |
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| Oh, by the way guys just warning you. The next episode is gonna be a back story episode that takes place a few months before the family conference up to when they're about to go to the conference. You're gonna have to wait two weeks for a continuation of the story so far. :P |
Zedrane said: Oh, by the way guys just warning you. The next episode is gonna be a back story episode that takes place a few months before the family conference up to when they're about to go to the conference. You're gonna have to wait two weeks for a continuation of the story so far. :P Kanon's casual outfit always seemed slightly emo to me. I really hope ANN is wrong about the series being 13 episodes, covering Episode 2 in 8 episodes would be great, but having us wait for another anime for the last 2 arcs would be a pain. :/ |
| Well that was a surprising turn. Haha Battler is so... stubborn The witches are interesting :) |
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Fujikira said: Kanon's casual outfit always seemed slightly emo to me. I really hope ANN is wrong about the series being 13 episodes, covering Episode 2 in 8 episodes would be great, but having us wait for another anime for the last 2 arcs would be a pain. :/ Kanon's regular outfit always seemed slightly emo to me.... Oh wait, he is emo. P.S. Yes, ANN is wrong. It is going to be 26 episodes long. |
DrZedJul 30, 2009 12:39 PM
| Holy shit it's Rika! D: |
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Nyarth said: Guu... What the hell happened in the second half? So the golden butterflies surrounded Battler and the rest and Beatrice laughing in the background, and after the second half they all resurrect to discuss what happened? I'm lost. The second half is the tea party. (The meeting that starts Beato's, and Battler's game. |
InsaneZero said: The main point of the anti-fantasy side is that the murders themselves could have been all done by humans without the aid of the supernatural. The only other explanation is science fiction. It's either fantasy or it's science fiction. I'm well aware of what you're saying this "anti-fantasy" side is. I'm saying it's impossible for modern humans. Modern humans cannot accomplish such things without magical powers, or alienish more advanced technology than we already currently have. Also, I think paranormal is a better word that supernatural. Because supernatural tends to imply outside of the realm of science. There could be scientific explanations for things like Witches, Magic, and Ghosts, if one were to come across them and observe them scientifically. Supernatural automatically assumes there are limits to what science can understand, which I do not believe. And again, if it's not paranormal, then that only leaves room of the other. There is no room for the events here to be real without an element of either fantasy, or science fiction. If anyone thinks otherwise, they are stupid. You'd might as well just attempt to inject the Higurashi aliens theory into Umineko. It would honestly make more sense than saying "just humans". By the way, if Beatrice needs believers in order to be real, that doesn't mean she's not real, it means her supernatural powers have conditions. And that Battler is an incredibly lucky colossal idiot. InsaneZero said: What you're trying to argue against at the moment is idea that magic doesn't exist, period. Yes, I'm arguing that magic can exist in this fictional universe. InsaneZero said: However, it's not an argument without merit. I would say it is without merit, because it assumes the unlikely. InsaneZero said: You won't really get the point of Anti-Mystery vs Anti-Fantasy until the second game gets into gear, so just go with the flow for now. I can only hope at that point I don't get irritated with people I find lacking logic until I start flaming them. If there's anything leaving room for such a thing at this point, I have grossly overlooked something in the equation. If not, I'm likely to continue looking down upon people who hold an illogical stance. |
 Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
Nyarth said: Fujikira said: Nyarth said: Guu... What the hell happened in the second half? So the golden butterflies surrounded Battler and the rest and Beatrice laughing in the background, and after the second half they all resurrect to discuss what happened? I'm lost. The second half is the tea party. (The meeting that starts Beato's, and Battler's game. So everyone comes back to life? o_O Beatrice kills them all like the epitaph says "And none will be left alive". Everyone dies. But, also like the epitaph says, Beatrice brings them all back to life with her endless magic (supposedly). Battler still denies the witch though and won't believe. So, everyone goes back to they way they were when they were dead. Then Battler's confusing game of twisted logic to prove witches fake begins. |
Chickenchief said: I is kinda confused about the sudden change from seeing the flask mail go to shore and then going over to the scene were they talked about bad endings and whatnot. I have not played the VN, so i am just wondering if this is getting explained somehow? Zedrane said: Oh, by the way guys just warning you. The next episode is gonna be a back story episode that takes place a few months before the family conference up to when they're about to go to the conference. You're gonna have to wait two weeks for a continuation of the story so far. :P they probably end the whole Shannon-Kanon's past in a single episodes. |
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