Japan's Weekly Blu-ray & CD Rankings for Dec 24 - 30

Progeusz said:
I'm really disappointed LB! sold so much. Just get the game instead of bad anime.

Kaioshin_Sama said:
Yeah as much as I hate to admit it cause Kyoani fanboys did totally shit on the adaptation before it aired by not being done by their majesties for the most part I do see people actually critiquing it on it's own merits and shortcomings now which is progress as far as I'm concerned. Though I will say I don't think the fact that that Pet no Kanojo show clearly showing more of a budget has helped the matter as Key fans seem pretty butthurt about that.

phoenixalia said:

You gotta be kidding me. KamiHaji has a male fanbase? B-But it was so shoujo-y! I recall even hearing some shoujo fans saying that it was a tad bit too shoujo-y.

Could you tell me what story elements attract male watchers?

symbv said:
I did not read the manga or watch the anime, but from the replies to those comments it seems that the drawing style is neutral enough to attract male audience and the story has a lot of elements that appeal to male watchers.

jmal said:
Haha, really? It's like... the most incredibly shoujo-y shoujo we've had recently.

jmal said:
Oh, okay, separate article. Surprising Oricon doesn't go after them, considering it's a very large site. I guess Oricon doesn't really care about the Youtaiju data, just the more comprehensive Biz data.

jmal said:

It's up to 3,873 now. I wonder, it might actually have hit 5k with BDs. We really need that full list from last week.

Kaioshin_Sama said:
I tried Girls Und Panzer but it kind of reminded me of Strike Witches only with tanks. Lost interest pretty quickly. :/

jmal said:

I'll preface this by noting that you're the one bringing up KyoAni specifically, and I'd be perfectly happy to make this argument on behalf of just about any other studio or show if you'd used something else instead, so if we can sidestep the "KyoAni fans are so defensive" thing that would be awesome - it's about far more than KyoAni. If we can't agree to this, I'd prefer you just pretend I didn't post, because I'm frankly not up for another "KyoAni vs the world" argument I never wanted. I'd actually like to assume this disclaimer is now considered implied going forward.

If we're on the same page there: The "major appeal" is more than "moe tropes". If that's all it were, any old show could be just as successful, and I'd like every show. But that's definitely not the case. I'm sure you'd describe, say, To Love-Ru as a successful show full of moe tropes, and I can't stand that, personally. The appeal of most [insert proper noun here] titles that I enjoy but you classify as just being "about moe tropes" for me is usually not just that. [Though as usual I can only make an educated guess at what someone means, exactly, when they use that vague term, because I've seen it utilized to describe just about everything.]

What I love above all is good writing. Funny comedy. The depth of emotional reaction I have to well-done dramatic or sad scenes. The stellar visual and musical quality. Nicely choreographed action sequences. Frankly, pretty much the same things I like in shows you would not ever classify as about moe. The exact proportion of these changes with each show and genre (gag comedy and romantic drama and violent action won't be measured quite the same), but what it almost always comes down to for me is how interesting and engaging I find the characters to be, and whether the writing utilizes them appropriately for the kind of show being presented.

I don't think most anime fans are all that different. We just have different tastes in what makes a good character or appropriate writing.

Now don't get me wrong, there are shows I like for pure stupid guilty pleasures, but I find that what separates "temporary enjoyable diversions" from the shows I truly love and remember for a long time is whether it's really got feeling, whether it really digs into its material and makes the best of it. Not simply how many shallow surface gimmicks it can employ. And yes, among many other shows from many other studios, I find KyoAni's shows like Hyouka, Clannad, Kanon, Haruhi, K-ON!, Chuunibyou etc really have that depth of feeling and appropriateness of writing that really speak to me beyond any surface glitter.

Kaioshin_Sama said:
Generally if the obvious moe appeal of a show is it's overwhelming defining feature to me I consider it a moe show. A good example would be just about everything Kyoani has produced since Full Metal Panic The Second Raid.

Kaioshin_Sama said:

I know it's probably rare but I make a pretty clear distinction between shows with moe in them and shows that are about moe and have my own sets of criteria on where to draw the line.

Kaioshin_Sama said:

That said with each passing year or so I become slightly more comfortable with the idea of moe. Initially I was firmly in the moe is the cancer killing anime camp, but now I sort of get the appeal as I get more used to the idea of it and certain shows have helped to slowly bridge the gap. I still can't do the really aggressively cutesy moe stuff or Tsunderes and the like but I don't mind the whole kuudere and Tall Dark and Bishoujo Yamato Nadieshiko thing much possibly cause there the closest thing to how the female characters usually are in the shows I've grown to like most over the years.

symbv said:
Obviously? I doubt it, as I never read anything about Japanese fans finding the direction, the BGM, the presentation or the script-writing to be daring. If anything, I would say to the contrary they did not find the scripts or the direction to be daring enough to worth a special mention. Granted I also find a lot to like about its pick of music and the care of the script to look deeper into the relationship between the characters, but I think it is all a matter of whether they find it entertaining enough. Apparently they did not find it that interesting for most of the early part but the mind game where 4 characters engaged for 3 episode without much of a change of the scene or setting got a lot of praises on the other hand. So the matter goes a bit deeper than a simple classification of Japanese not liking something that I find daring. It is great that you find so much to love in Zetsuen but I would not say that all other works are just lazy or bland or unimaginative. Girls und Panzer are just one anime that are none of the above for example.

Kaioshin_Sama said:
It does things most productions would be too lazy or too unimaginative to do and I suppose in this day and age where I see a lot of laziness and bland presentation of concepts and tropes I consider that a little daring and experimental. Obviously too daring for Japans audience.

symbv said:
Well, most of what is on offer in midnight anime shows can be called a "moe show" one way or another. At the end it is a mater of whether you find those moe noticeable and irritating. If that is the case, then you may be more likely to call it a "moe show" instead of referring it with its proper genre, like adventure, love comedy, slice of life, science fiction etc.

Kaioshin_Sama said:

We must have a very different perspective on what constitutes experimental or fresh if you consider something like Girls Und Panzer to fit that description. Obviously I'm pretty out of touch with what fans find fascinating and ingenious these days.

Kaioshin_Sama said:
The season has way too much variety for all the money just to go to moe shows.

Kaioshin_Sama said:

Obviously the shows will get made, I just don't see how it's awesome to keep seeing the same basic kinds of shows and same names

symbv said:
Thing is Zetsuen clearly has a lot of moe in there. Fans even discover new source of moe in the series - Samon is recently proclaimed by consensus as the most moe character in the show, believe it or not. Besides, Zetsuen is not an experimental show you so want the industry to make. Girls und Panzer would be a much bolder attempt to try something new, and its boldness is rewarded by a very much unexpected success in sales (and many other things).

jmal said:
Yeah, I personally like Zetsuten, it's got nice Bones production values and an amusing way of presenting itself, but I'm really not seeing what's "experimental" or "branching out" about it. Targeting someone other than (or in conjunction with, rather) male late night anime otaku doesn't make a show special, plenty of shows do that. And it's not like being experimental has anything to do with being inherently enjoyable.