Zalis said: What's worse is when they don't even sub the songs. I've seen clips of Korean dubbed songs from idol anime, but it's like they want the genre to fail outside Asia. @DreamingBeatsAnd a lot of the time, the Japanese content owners don't want songs dubbed in the first place |
| その目だれの目？ |
MeguSae38 said: Very broadly speaking I think the subs are generally more faithful to the original lines, which makes sense given the constraint of having to adapt to the timing of the lips movements for the dub. That said, the subs are not 100% correct themselves, they just feel closer to the real meaning for me; which is why I prefer them over the dubs. I think subs and dubs serve different purposes. Dubs are for people who want to be able to enjoy the series in their own language and are not necessarily interested in the Japanese language and culture (having said that, given that Japanese cuisine is fairly popular worldwide, there’s little reason to try and translate the names of Japanese dishes to something else) Subs, on the other hand, is meant for people’s who want to enjoy the series in as closely to the original as possible with little to no knowledge in the Japanese language themselves. Subbing isn’t an exact science, and some may choose to sub a series more accurately, while others will choose to be more liberal about it. It seems that Billybilly tends to be more accurate, while Crunchyroll tends to be more liberal (sometimes a little too liberal). @Lucifrost I’ve seen a few clips of Korean dubs for Precure, Pripara and Kiratto, and they were really well done imo. You can clearly see the effort put into making the Korean dub for those series. Although, they also watch anime subbed over there and kids anime may be an exception of getting dubs. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
MeguSae38 said: Very broadly speaking I think the subs are generally more faithful to the original lines, which makes sense given the constraint of having to adapt to the timing of the lips movements for the dub. That said, the subs are not 100% correct themselves, they just feel closer to the real meaning for me; which is why I prefer them over the dubs. Sometimes it's hard to get exact meaning even if the person doing the subs is trying to be faithful to the language but I do feel Crunchyroll truly tries to water down subs to a more localized audience. My Japanese is not the most polished but sometimes I'll hear some lines in more modern anime and the subs are much more "flavored". Especially since a lot of Japanese youth don't speak too much with slang in mind it's just different depending on their manner scale. DreamingBeats said: MeguSae38 said: That said, the subs are not 100% correct themselves, they just feel closer to the real meaning for me; which is why I prefer them over the dubs. I think subs and dubs serve different purposes. Dubs are for people who want to be able to enjoy the series in their own language and are not necessarily interested in the Japanese language and culture (having said that, given that Japanese cuisine is fairly popular worldwide, there’s little reason to try and translate the names of Japanese dishes to something else) I guess this is a good point of. Whose watching. I mean I don't know what the casual experince is for people who aren't exactly immersed in Japanese/Anime community. So maybe this changes the view point, I'd really like to know but they're probably not on this forum lmao. |
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| But on the flip side, what infuriates me more is studios not giving us a sequel for one reason or another. |
  𝒮𝑜𝓂𝑒𝓉𝒾𝓂𝑒𝓈, 𝓎𝑜𝓊 𝒸𝒶𝓃'𝓉 𝓂𝑜𝓋𝑒 𝒻𝑜𝓇𝓌𝒶𝓇𝒹 𝓌𝒾𝓉𝒽𝑜𝓊𝓉 𝒸𝓁𝑜𝓈𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝒹𝑜𝑜𝓇 𝒷𝑒𝒽𝒾𝓃𝒹 𝓎𝑜𝓊. - 𝑅𝑒𝒾 𝒦𝒾𝓇𝒾𝓎𝒶𝓂𝒶   |
| Honestly, I don't care. I watch dub if there's one available, if not I switch to subs. |
 MALoween✟Mansion 2024            |
| I think that has more to do with licensing issues. For example half of Gintama is licensed by Sentai filmworks and the other by funimation. Sentai dubbed some of it but not all of their half while funimation started dubbing everything they had the rights to. OVA's aren't usually a package deal with the series they're associated with so you have to get the license to those as well. I think it comes down to what the dubbers think is a good business decision. Not everyone watches ova's so the extra effort might seem worth it to them. |
| It just comes down to the fact that I find english dubs less organic than the original japanese version. There's also the localization issues which have mountains of problems in itself. Catering to a western audience by removing japanese lingo/phrases and having them sound as western as possible. Whenever a character uses an honorific (like -san, -kun, -sama for example) I don't particularly like it if they used the accurate honorifics that they would say in english as opposed to their original japanese ones. Addressing someone with a Mr. or Mrs. instead of -kun or -san just feels clunky in the context and it feels worse when they don't use an honorific entirely. Then there are the onii/onee-chan issues as well. If you're gonna address an older sibling, I'd much prefer it if they stuck to big bro/sis instead of addressing them by name instead. I HATE hearing onii/onee-chan but the subtitles change it to the characters name. I'm not stupid, just refer to them as big bro/sis. It may seem insignificant, but it does distract from my viewing experience. In short, I avoid dubs because they don't feel as organic and have a myriad of translation issues on top of the mountains of localization bullshit that comes with it. The Pokemon dub is notorius for how insultingly bad it is. And do I dare mention 4kids? Yeah, I figured. |
  "This is my darkness. Nothing anyone says will console me." ☆ 𝙰𝚗𝚒𝚖𝚎 𝙻𝚒𝚜𝚝 ☆ ☆ 𝚅𝙽𝙳𝚋 ☆ ☆ 𝙱𝚊𝚌𝚔𝚕𝚘𝚐𝚐𝚎𝚛𝚢 ☆ |
| Honestly, I have the strong opinion that watching anything dubbed is just being lazy, be it in films, TV series, cartoons or anime. The voice acting plays a huge role into the whole consistency of a work of art, it's an intimate part of the characters and should be appreciated in the original version if you're looking for the best possible experience. Anyway, that's just me tho, and I can see dubs being made to make the media more accessible to the general public, but in the end I think all it accomplishes is to butcher the original work. |
  Grant me one hour on love's most sacred shores To clasp the bosom that my soul adores, Lie heart to heart and merge my soul with yours |
| dubbing is the death of all movies or anime and I always wonder how anybody can like watching anything dubbed.. I rather don't watch it and wait for the subtitles or watch it raw .The voice counts and actors spend all their lives working and perfecting their voices so the voices count more than the animating body movements.. that's why we can enjoy radio/audio drama and shows! So I am not watching anything dubbed! |
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ryo-san said: Because nobody can even tell what the original language of an animation is without looking it up in advance. I would think that's obvious.I always wonder how anybody can like watching anything dubbed. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Sachyan said: Honestly, I have the strong opinion that watching anything dubbed is just being lazy, be it in films, TV series, cartoons or anime. The voice acting plays a huge role into the whole consistency of a work of art, it's an intimate part of the characters and should be appreciated in the original version if you're looking for the best possible experience. Anyway, that's just me tho, and I can see dubs being made to make the media more accessible to the general public, but in the end I think all it accomplishes is to butcher the original work. Or you know, people want to watch things without having text fill up their screens - understand and hear nuance in lines of dialog, by professional voice actors, in a dialect they can understand. I would argue people who watch things subtitled (which are translations done in much the same way dubbing transcripts work) are actually butchering the work by reading instead of watching and listening to the medium in the way which it was intended. I also find people who go to bat or even hold the opinion that subtitles are superior to dubs to be pompous and pee brained. Like this guy. ryo-san said: dubbing is the death of all movies or anime and I always wonder how anybody can like watching anything dubbed.. I rather don't watch it and wait for the subtitles or watch it raw .The voice counts and actors spend all their lives working and perfecting their voices so the voices count more than the animating body movements.. that's why we can enjoy radio/audio drama and shows! So I am not watching anything dubbed! I have yet to see a legitimate argument for subtitles being superior that isn't routed in elitism or purism - Truth Is - Unless you understand the Japanese language and its intricacies, you are missing out on a lot more watching with subtitles then you are listening to a dub. This "butchering" argument is more trivial then the arguments about English VA being worse then Japanese VA, at least that one is routed in some form of personal preference that pseudo makes sense, if still a little moronic, being that some people are more sensitive to voice acted lines - understandable when one is listening to their native language and picking up on oddities. Still not truly an argument for the comparison in quality of the voice work for the same reasons listed above. I also hope they don't watch other animated western films or play western video games, as these days there is a lot of cross over in anime work. Unless the quality of the voice acting is actually sub par (Rare for the past 20 years) there really is no reason to not watch dubbed anime, aside from personal preference. |
AndigoMar 6, 2023 5:53 PM
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Andigo said: Sachyan said: Honestly, I have the strong opinion that watching anything dubbed is just being lazy, be it in films, TV series, cartoons or anime. The voice acting plays a huge role into the whole consistency of a work of art, it's an intimate part of the characters and should be appreciated in the original version if you're looking for the best possible experience. Anyway, that's just me tho, and I can see dubs being made to make the media more accessible to the general public, but in the end I think all it accomplishes is to butcher the original work. Or you know, people want to watch things without having text fill up their screens - understand and hear nuance in lines of dialog, by professional voice actors, in a dialect they can understand. I would argue people who watch things subtitled (which are translations done in much the same way dubbing transcripts work) are actually butchering the work by reading instead of watching and listening to the medium in the way which it was intended. I also find people who go to bat or even hold the opinion that subtitles are superior to dubs to be pompous and pee brained. Like this guy. ryo-san said: dubbing is the death of all movies or anime and I always wonder how anybody can like watching anything dubbed.. I rather don't watch it and wait for the subtitles or watch it raw .The voice counts and actors spend all their lives working and perfecting their voices so the voices count more than the animating body movements.. that's why we can enjoy radio/audio drama and shows! So I am not watching anything dubbed! I have yet to see a legitimate argument for subtitles being superior that isn't routed in elitism or purism - Truth Is - Unless you understand the Japanese language and its intricacies, you are missing out on a lot more watching with subtitles then you are listening to a dub. This "butchering" argument is more trivial then the arguments about English VA being worse then Japanese VA, at least that one is routed in some form of personal preference that pseudo makes sense, if still a little moronic, being that some people are more sensitive to voice acted lines - understandable when one is listening to their native language and picking up on oddities. Still not truly an argument for the quality of the voice work for the same reason listed above. I also hope they don't watch other animated western films or play western video games, as these days there is a lot of cross over in anime work. Unless the quality of the voice acting is actually sub par (Rare for the past 20 years) there really is no reason to not watch dubbed anime, aside from personal preference. English voice actors are not shit.. I'm saying the Japanese ones have lots of them..they have so many schools for voices acting.. So the competition is huge to land a role. Even a minor character has their own VA.. In English, same VA voices a lot of different characters which is not easy on the ears.. I do understand Japanese and I can probably hold a conversation in Japanese sounding like 5 year old.. but I can't read or write correctly.. But I can understand it without subs unless it's thick Kansai dialog.. Or aomori accent... Not even rest of Japan can understand aomori accent |
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Andigo said: Sachyan said: Honestly, I have the strong opinion that watching anything dubbed is just being lazy, be it in films, TV series, cartoons or anime. The voice acting plays a huge role into the whole consistency of a work of art, it's an intimate part of the characters and should be appreciated in the original version if you're looking for the best possible experience. Anyway, that's just me tho, and I can see dubs being made to make the media more accessible to the general public, but in the end I think all it accomplishes is to butcher the original work. Or you know, people want to watch things without having text fill up their screens - understand and hear nuance in lines of dialog, by professional voice actors, in a dialect they can understand. I would argue people who watch things subtitled (which are translations done in much the same way dubbing transcripts work) are actually butchering the work by reading instead of watching and listening to the medium in the way which it was intended. I also find people who go to bat or even hold the opinion that subtitles are superior to dubs to be pompous and pee brained. Like this guy. ryo-san said: dubbing is the death of all movies or anime and I always wonder how anybody can like watching anything dubbed.. I rather don't watch it and wait for the subtitles or watch it raw .The voice counts and actors spend all their lives working and perfecting their voices so the voices count more than the animating body movements.. that's why we can enjoy radio/audio drama and shows! So I am not watching anything dubbed! I have yet to see a legitimate argument for subtitles being superior that isn't routed in elitism or purism - Truth Is - Unless you understand the Japanese language and its intricacies, you are missing out on a lot more watching with subtitles then you are listening to a dub. This "butchering" argument is more trivial then the arguments about English VA being worse then Japanese VA, at least that one is routed in some form of personal preference that pseudo makes sense, if still a little moronic, being that some people are more sensitive to voice acted lines - understandable when one is listening to their native language and picking up on oddities. Still not truly an argument for the quality of the voice work for the same reason listed above. I also hope they don't watch other animated western films or play western video games, as these days there is a lot of cross over in anime work. Unless the quality of the voice acting is actually sub par (Rare for the past 20 years) there really is no reason to not watch dubbed anime, aside from personal preference. I feel like is much more about the voice acting than the subtitles, you're not really watching it because it's subbed, but rather because you want to listen to the proper voice acting, merging with how the characters portray and behave and how the story is supposed to be told, it was meant to be that way, and it's not just about the meaning of the words, but the sound, the way each sentence and dialogue is spoken, and the overall feeling of each act in every little scene. You mentioned the nuance, and this is a keyword here, since you miss it entirely in the dubbed version, there's not really nuance, it's merely a distant interpretation of the original work. Anyway, in the end is not about reading, but about listening. The subtitles are just there so you can understand the meaning behind the words you don't properly understand, assuming you don't really know the language, and that goes for any media. Also, reading your comment I can assume that if someone prefers the dubbed version they're actually just choosing the option where they can avoid reading the subtitles, which for me is a very poor reason to discard the original voice acting, in other words laziness. Sure, being overly sensitive about this issue isn't something I consider productive, because in the end it doesn't really matter to me if someone chooses the dubbed version, as long as this doesn't make the original voice acting more scarce I don't really care all that much. Is just that I'd never watch anything dubbed; films, TV series, cartoons, anime or whatever, it just feels wrong to me. |
GuidSMRMar 6, 2023 6:10 PM
Grant me one hour on love's most sacred shores To clasp the bosom that my soul adores, Lie heart to heart and merge my soul with yours |
Sachyan said: Your right, nuance is the key here, the point being that the voice acting and emotion portrayed, the subtle inflections, sarcasm, tone, all of it is lost on a non native Japanese speaker - if not fully then partially, only guided by the context of the words they are reading on screen or past experience watching subtitled anime. All this is accounted for in the dubbing process and is not rocket science. This is not a live action, all the dialog is voice work - casting choice, with emotion to be presented via scripted prompts. These dubbing studios are given more then just the footage to work with, and in my experience have no problem having their VA's hitting the right beats. I feel like is much more about the voice acting than the subtitles, you're not really watching it because it's subbed, but rather because you want to listen to the proper voice acting, merging with how the characters portray and behave and how the story is supposed to be told, it was meant to be that way, and it's not just about the meaning of the words, but the sound, the way each sentence and dialogue is spoken, and the overall feeling of each act in every little scene. Its an interpretation of the original work, as is the anime an interpretation of the manga. The distance of an interpretation is not represented by how far away the voice lines are record from the original source materials inception lol. This is what I mean by purism. Your argument is one made on preference alone, and really turns to shit when you starting bringing peoples motives for watching anime into it. As I said, its a preference in watching something as intended instead of reading, and also a preference for hearing a dialect that can be fully understood, and hear all the nuances of emotion paired with the animation as was intended for the medium. Good luck getting that experience fully reading translated text, and listening to what is essentially gibberish to an untrained ear. |
AndigoMar 6, 2023 7:14 PM
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ryo-san said: I want to assume you are not a native English speaker as well, so I commend you for understanding multiple languages if that is the case - even if not, that's more languages then I know.English voice actors are not shit.. I'm saying the Japanese ones have lots of them..they have so many schools for voices acting.. So the competition is huge to land a role. Even a minor character has their own VA.. In English, same VA voices a lot of different characters which is not easy on the ears.. I do understand Japanese and I can probably hold a conversation in Japanese sounding like 5 year old.. but I can't read or write correctly.. But I can understand it without subs unless it's thick Kansai dialog.. Or aomori accent... Not even rest of Japan can understand aomori accent See that is an argument to be made, that could be off putting and a decent albeit weak argument for watching subs - that the same voice actor plays various roles in different anime, though I doubt this is not the case in Japan either. Their VA pool might be larger for anime over in Japan, but I doubt it is that large. Oh unless you mean same VA in the same show playing different characters, yeah, happens very very rarely among main and secondary characters and is more something that happens with random side characters - I can say it does not bother me that much on the rare occasion I notice it. Your original argument was way to melodramatic for my taste though. |
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Andigo said: Sachyan said: Your right, nuance is the key here, the point being that the voice acting and emotion portrayed, the subtle inflections, sarcasm, tone, all of it is lost on a non native Japanese speaker - if not fully then partially, only guided by the context of the words they are reading on screen or past experience watching subtitled anime. All this is accounted for in the dubbing process and is not rocket science. This is not a live action, all the dialog is voice work - casting choice, with emotion to be presented via scripted prompts. These dubbing studios are given more then just the footage to work with, and in my experience have no problem having their VA's hitting the right beats. I feel like is much more about the voice acting than the subtitles, you're not really watching it because it's subbed, but rather because you want to listen to the proper voice acting, merging with how the characters portray and behave and how the story is supposed to be told, it was meant to be that way, and it's not just about the meaning of the words, but the sound, the way each sentence and dialogue is spoken, and the overall feeling of each act in every little scene. Its an interpretation of the original work, as is the anime an interpretation of the manga. The distance of an interpretation is not represented by how far away the voice lines are record from the original source materials inception lol. This is what I mean by purism. Your argument is one made on preference alone, and really turns to shit when you starting bringing peoples motives for watching anime into it. As I said, its a preference in watching something as intended instead of reading, and also a preference for hearing a dialect that can be fully understood, and hear all the nuances of emotion paired with the animation as was intended for the medium. Good luck getting that experience fully reading translated text, and listening to what is essentially gibberish to an untrained ear. I see that you're from Canada, I can understand why someone that speaks English natively would prefer watching something dubbed, it's cultural, specially for north-americans where a lot of what is produced is already in their language anyway. They're not used to experience something foreigner. As someone that is not a native English speaker I just don't feel like watching something that is originally German, Swedish, Korean, Japanese, French, Arabic, Spanish, Turkish, Iranian, Indian, Italian or in any other language and culture outside of their own cultural boundaries. So it really doesn't make sense to me to search for an English dubbed version of something if English is equally foreigner to me as any other. The world in general, outside of the anglophone bubble, is already used to experience foreigner things, also there isn't even that many dubbed versions in languages that are not English, so is not like our ears are stuck in one specific culture. Either way, other cultures don't sound gibberish at all to me, is beautiful to listen to another language, specially in a work of art that is inseparable of language itself. |
GuidSMRMar 6, 2023 7:58 PM
Grant me one hour on love's most sacred shores To clasp the bosom that my soul adores, Lie heart to heart and merge my soul with yours |
Sachyan said: So then why take a strong stance on the dubbing process of another country and the people who choose to consume anime that specific way. Referring to a whole group of people as lazy? So it really doesn't make sense to me to search for an English dubbed version of something if English is equally foreigner to me as any other. We are talking about anime here, not any other medium - there can be different arguments made for other forms of entertainment that I may agree with you on. Anime happens to be one of the mediums that works quite well with dubbing, due to the nature of the product, in that its animated, already an interpretation in most cases, and the point of contention being voice over which is already a default process in creating anime. Also you type very well for a none native English speaker, but I wont be fooled by how you took me using the words gibberish and turned it into something negative. Every language you don't understand is essentially gibberish, as in you do not understand it. I find other languages alluring to listen to as well. |
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| Dubbed anime is not anime. Fans of dubbed anime are not fans of anime. |
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Sachyan said: I agree! But here's a secret: English dubs were never intended for people like you. They're for native English speakers living in places like North America, Britain, and Australia. You telling 4kids they're dubbing the wrong way is like me telling Toei they're animating the wrong way. They don't care.So it really doesn't make sense to me to search for an English dubbed version of something if English is equally foreigner to me as any other. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Andigo said: Sachyan said: So then why take a strong stance on the dubbing process of another country and the people who choose to consume anime that specific way. Referring to a whole group of people as lazy? So it really doesn't make sense to me to search for an English dubbed version of something if English is equally foreigner to me as any other. We are talking about anime here, not any other medium - there can be different arguments made for other forms of entertainment that I may agree with you on. Anime happens to be one of the mediums that works quite well with dubbing, due to the nature of the product, in that its animated, already an interpretation in most cases, and the point of contention being voice over which is already a default process in creating anime. Also you type very well for a none native English speaker, but I wont be fooled by how you took me using the words gibberish and turned it into something negative. Every language you don't understand is essentially gibberish, as in you do not understand it. I find other languages alluring to listen to as well. Referring to it as pure laziness might've been overly dramatic, I'm sorry for that. I guess since we're talking about animation, and you could extend the argument to videogames as well, since there isn't any actual people involved in the presentation of the media, the dubbing can be acceptable. Still, I find that you're somehow losing the way the message was originally intended to be delivered, but I won't go as far as to blame people for choosing to experience it in any other way. Before I throw off the towel though, and to give a simple example, if you're given two reviews, one from someone that watched the anime dubbed, and the other from someone that watched it subbed, I would respect the opinion of the latter a little bit more, since I believe the original voice acting is what makes the show more powerful and true to its own form of presentation. Either way, I guess we're all lost in translation somehow... |
Grant me one hour on love's most sacred shores To clasp the bosom that my soul adores, Lie heart to heart and merge my soul with yours |
Lucifrost said: Sachyan said: I agree! But here's a secret: English dubs were never intended for people like you. They're for native English speakers living in places like North America, Britain, and Australia. You telling 4kids they're dubbing the wrong way is like me telling Toei they're animating the wrong way. They don't care.So it really doesn't make sense to me to search for an English dubbed version of something if English is equally foreigner to me as any other. I don't know about the English dubs, but I've seen my share of dubbed anime in my own language back when they aired on TV and that was the only possible way to watch it. Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Saint Seiya, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Pokemon, Cardcaptor Sakura, Inuyasha, Digimon, The Prince of Tennis, Cowboy Bebop, some Ghibli, and at the time I didn't feel like I was missing on something. They would even make a dubbed version of the openings and endings, and you could say there's some kind of nostalgia involved in these experiences. But at some point, when I decided to rewatch a few of them, like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, NGE and Cowboy Bebop, the Ghibli films, I made sure I could get my hands on the original work, and it just felt completely different and refreshing. That's why I tried to say it's a whole different experience when you watch something with the original voice acting. I guess you could say ever since we got internet like it's today, I've never watched something dubbed even once. To illustrate the point, let's take the opening of Saint Seiya, in the dubbed version in my native language, and in the original version: You can't really say the people who are responsible for the work in the dubbed version haven't done all they could to deliver a good work. But at the same time, despite my own nostalgia, this kind of thing is unacceptable for me today, because they're simply creating a whole different thing. The same goes for things like honorifics, pronunciation and every other little detail that is shown throughout the anime. |
GuidSMRMar 6, 2023 9:36 PM
Grant me one hour on love's most sacred shores To clasp the bosom that my soul adores, Lie heart to heart and merge my soul with yours |
| I think going from dub to sub is typically less painful than sub to dub, so even though it DOES suck (especially if you're attached to the dub cast), it's worth making the transition if you really care about the show. There are some cases where its less about the voice acting and more about the script... Lupin III pt. 2 has an English dub that was done decades after the original broadcast and it was spiced up and localized flawlessly for a Western audience. The original Japanese is so dry and tame in comparison that the show becomes a lot less compelling. @MFDOOMED Nice writeup. I enjoy the Persona dubs, but I completely agree that honorifics sound so awkward in English. Understandable you can't listen to YYH without the dub. It's the definitive audio for the show haha I've never met someone who actually prefers the Japanese for that one. I totally agree with you about earlier dubs feeling more natural. I feel English VAs sometimes try to match the zaniness and over-the-top nature of the Japanese VAs, and it usually sounds forced. There's a reason shows like Jojo are unwatchable to me in dub, even though I'm usually pretty accepting of most dubs. |
AnimeIsWrongMar 6, 2023 10:10 PM
Sachyan said: No hard feelings really~Referring to it as pure laziness might've been overly dramatic, I'm sorry for that. Sachyan said: I understood you perfectly, I also understand your argument - I get what you are saying, I just disagree that's all. You look at dubbing as altering the product, where I see it as simply translating it into another language. I see no loss in quality, where you see one. My argument is that a product you can understand audibly I would argue is more in line with the way it is intended to be experienced. With actual audible emotion and nuance that is fully comprehended the moment the character speaks a line, having the baseline of your own dialect to connect to the struggles of a character is much more powerful then reading text - albeit with subtle locational changes that often take zero substance away from the messaging or plot of the show. This is ultimately the better way to experience it. Those text translations you are reading are no better then the vocal translations, from a purist standpoint. And your argument is a purist one.Still, I find that you're somehow losing the way the message was originally intended to be delivered, but I won't go as far as to blame people for choosing to experience it in any other way. Assuming we have quality voice over work, modern dubbing, I see zero difference in purity from those who watch it in sub, to those who choose to watch it with dubs. |
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| My major issue with dubbed anime being someone who watches both Japanese/english sides of it is the English VA's. In Japan there is a huge talent pool of VA's to choose from your 97% of the time going to find the right VA to voice a character. When dubbed into English your choices are limited that most of the time you get the same 12 VA's to voice the main characters even if the personality and voices they bring don't match the character themselves. 2 major concerns for me are Bryce Papenbrook and Greg Ayres. Bryce's voice usually takes away the seriousness of some characters or makes their shouts less intimating for some characters that I don't feel as thrilled as I would by the Japanese counterparts, also for a time he was just getting every male lead for 2 years straight. Greg sounds like a pussy, I love him in comedy but on a serious note I just can't take him, well seriously. Also as mentioned before some translation and meaning is lost when going from Japanese to English. For heavily centralized Japanese anime with so dialogue rooted in Japanese culture and sayings it's always better to listen/watch in Japanese. |
AnimeIsWrong said: I think going from dub to sub is typically less painful than sub to dub, so even though it DOES suck (especially if you're attached to the dub cast), it's worth making the transition if you really care about the show. There are some cases where its less about the voice acting and more about the script... Lupin III pt. 2 has an English dub that was done decades after the original broadcast and it was spiced up and localized flawlessly for a Western audience. The original Japanese is so dry and tame in comparison that the show becomes a lot less compelling. I agree on the Lupin thing. Even in the old dubs to the more modern. They change drastically (mostly quality of audio ha) but it always seems like the cast keeps up good pace with their character. Plus with a pick up any where anytime with that series it's easy to not get super attached. xTaihou said: I used to love watching dubbed anime but I got to a point where I wanted to keep going (Really hit this in Naruto & Yu-Gi-Oh!) so had to teach myself to watch dubbed. I found myself re-watching the shows subbed and finding that especially in shows like Yu-Gi-Oh there is a bit of censorship and the subs are more "true to the source". I have no issue with dubbed but no I just prefer subbed Yugioh is a hard case. I did grow up with the dub so nostalgia but I do genuinely think they all sound solid. Even with all the changes and even despite the censorship, they not only finished the series but kept the ending which was pretty emotional and cathartic but the sub hits that home too but 224 is just easier to knock out in English no doubt. Fantaria said: My major issue with dubbed anime being someone who watches both Japanese/english sides of it is the English VA's. In Japan there is a huge talent pool of VA's to choose from your 97% of the time going to find the right VA to voice a character. When dubbed into English your choices are limited that most of the time you get the same 12 VA's to voice the main characters even if the personality and voices they bring don't match the character themselves. 2 major concerns for me are Bryce Papenbrook and Greg Ayres. Bryce's voice usually takes away the seriousness of some characters or makes their shouts less intimating for some characters that I don't feel as thrilled as I would by the Japanese counterparts, also for a time he was just getting every male lead for 2 years straight. Greg sounds like a pussy, I love him in comedy but on a serious note I just can't take him, well seriously. Also as mentioned before some translation and meaning is lost when going from Japanese to English. For heavily centralized Japanese anime with so dialogue rooted in Japanese culture and sayings it's always better to listen/watch in Japanese. It's really tragic how the anime dub scene is soooooo messy? It has very little structure and correct, most dubbing is done by Funimation, they are located in Texas and all their actors live their too (for the most part). There are exceptions to this The Cartoon Cipher on Youtube covers this really well and during Covid these comapnies were down to out reach for talent that wasn't able to just come in the studio. However! I hear this practice hasn't kept up and personally I don't think that makes the dub scene diverse as it should be because if I do like dubs for anything, I like it for the range of talent it can reach outside of typical Japanese voices. |
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DEMSpirit said: big problem with anime dubs is the cast is just of a far lower caliber compared to japanese seiyuus. English dubs are often failed actors while seiyuus literally took a 4 year program for it. Also dub actors don't take their roles as seriously as seiyuus since there is less competition and you are more likely to get it through connections. While seiyuus often have to read the source material. Like the gundam seed funimation dub they literally mispronounced all the names as they have never watched the sub. It shows the lack of care dub actors put in. Not all, but way too much of the dub voice acting industry just doesn't care Pretty much all you've said is true. Though I wouldn't put a blanket statement on all English Voice Actors. Some of them are consistently good or do really care about their jobs, I do see a lot of them phoning it in for a lot of projects and not small ones either. The biggest fault in the dub landscape has been the fact that Funimation kind of gets away with only using the same stable of voice actors (they did do remote voice auditions during covid but apparently that's not happening much anymore). When lets be real, not all voice talent can live in the middle of Texas. I get that Japan doesn't really have this issue since most voice actors who want that career live in proximity to these studios or would move there for work for that career. And since being a seiyuu makes more money then being a measly VA in some random anime. It's dramatically different. Plus seiyuu have more opportunities to dub American movies and go to live events, radio specials, and goddamn CD dramas. I mean all VA really have is something like Comic Con, so low pay, having to live in very certain cities like California and New York which are some of the most expensive parts of the country, and having to work on so many projects just to afford it all. PASS. It's honestly just a mess that America as an industry can't handle or afford with the labor they got so *shrug* |
StripesJun 16, 2023 3:37 PM
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| I think it's because most of this is released in japan specifically and doesnt exist on legal streaming sites. So why would they dub that stuff |
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HarrierDuBoisFan said: I think it's because most of this is released in japan specifically and doesnt exist on legal streaming sites. So why would they dub that stuff I mean it depends on what you mean. A lot of extra material has converted onto Streaming platforms. Not saying all of it but for major series, yes. I don't expect older series to dredge up some 5 minute shorts or anything like that but I expect modern series to keep up with it. |
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| It is a shame a lot of anime dubs don't do the whole show. It makes it pointless to bother watching the dub at all in those cases. I don't mind the openings and endings not being dubbed most of the time, but when it's the cast of the show singing I think it'd be nice if it was dubbed. It feels like part of the experience is missing compared to the japanese version when that happens. Sometimes I can't tell what the dub actors are even saying. I've found this more with recent dubs than older ones though. |
Andigo said: YESSSS THANK you. Very well said, i agree 100%. die hard sub watchers seem to let their condescending only-this-way-is-the-correct-way attitudes get to their head a little too much sometimes, as if watching it sub somehow makes they themselves any more authentic to japan (or so they feel). Not to mention dismissing every english/non japanese voice actor just for the fact that it’s dubbed does a huge disservice and is very close minded. I’d argue dubs have helped expand the anime medium to a broader audience (example- toonami) especially for enticing newcomers, who’d probably be turned away otherwise for it being in another language. It’s great to have both because that way you can bring in people from all sides. Neither is the “better” one, it’s all about preference. English voice actors bust their asses off and anime is their passion, some do a greater job than others but the exact same can be said for the japanese voice actors. It’s not like every japanese voice actor is going to automatically do a top notch job every time, that’s just sillySachyan said: Honestly, I have the strong opinion that watching anything dubbed is just being lazy, be it in films, TV series, cartoons or anime. The voice acting plays a huge role into the whole consistency of a work of art, it's an intimate part of the characters and should be appreciated in the original version if you're looking for the best possible experience. Anyway, that's just me tho, and I can see dubs being made to make the media more accessible to the general public, but in the end I think all it accomplishes is to butcher the original work. Or you know, people want to watch things without having text fill up their screens - understand and hear nuance in lines of dialog, by professional voice actors, in a dialect they can understand. I would argue people who watch things subtitled (which are translations done in much the same way dubbing transcripts work) are actually butchering the work by reading instead of watching and listening to the medium in the way which it was intended. I also find people who go to bat or even hold the opinion that subtitles are superior to dubs to be pompous and pee brained. Like this guy. ryo-san said: dubbing is the death of all movies or anime and I always wonder how anybody can like watching anything dubbed.. I rather don't watch it and wait for the subtitles or watch it raw .The voice counts and actors spend all their lives working and perfecting their voices so the voices count more than the animating body movements.. that's why we can enjoy radio/audio drama and shows! So I am not watching anything dubbed! I have yet to see a legitimate argument for subtitles being superior that isn't routed in elitism or purism - Truth Is - Unless you understand the Japanese language and its intricacies, you are missing out on a lot more watching with subtitles then you are listening to a dub. This "butchering" argument is more trivial then the arguments about English VA being worse then Japanese VA, at least that one is routed in some form of personal preference that pseudo makes sense, if still a little moronic, being that some people are more sensitive to voice acted lines - understandable when one is listening to their native language and picking up on oddities. Still not truly an argument for the comparison in quality of the voice work for the same reasons listed above. I also hope they don't watch other animated western films or play western video games, as these days there is a lot of cross over in anime work. Unless the quality of the voice acting is actually sub par (Rare for the past 20 years) there really is no reason to not watch dubbed anime, aside from personal preference. |
purplemoon_Jun 19, 2023 9:12 PM
🌙  I wish you an ounce of luck |
purplemoon_ said: Andigo said: YESSSS THANK you. Very well said, i agree 100%. die hard sub watchers seem to let their embarrassingly condescending only-this-way-is-the-correct-way attitudes get to their head a little too much sometimes, as if watching it sub somehow makes they themselves any more authentic to japan (or so they feel). Not to mention dismissing every english/non japanese voice actor just for the fact that it’s dubbed does a huge disservice and is very close minded. I’d argue dubs have helped expand the anime medium to a broader audience (example- toonami) especially for enticing newcomers, who’d probably be turned away otherwise for it being in another language. It’s great to have both because that way you can bring in people from all sides. Neither is the “better” one, it’s all about preference. English voice actors bust their asses off and anime is their passion, some do a greater job than others but the exact same can be said for the japanese voice actors. It’s not like every japanese voice actor is going to automatically do a top notch job every time, that’s just sillyOr you know, people want to watch things without having text fill up their screens - understand and hear nuance in lines of dialog, by professional voice actors, in a dialect they can understand. I would argue people who watch things subtitled (which are translations done in much the same way dubbing transcripts work) are actually butchering the work by reading instead of watching and listening to the medium in the way which it was intended. I also find people who go to bat or even hold the opinion that subtitles are superior to dubs to be pompous and pee brained. Like this guy. I have yet to see a legitimate argument for subtitles being superior that isn't routed in elitism or purism - Truth Is - Unless you understand the Japanese language and its intricacies, you are missing out on a lot more watching with subtitles then you are listening to a dub. This "butchering" argument is more trivial then the arguments about English VA being worse then Japanese VA, at least that one is routed in some form of personal preference that pseudo makes sense, if still a little moronic, being that some people are more sensitive to voice acted lines - understandable when one is listening to their native language and picking up on oddities. Still not truly an argument for the comparison in quality of the voice work for the same reasons listed above. I also hope they don't watch other animated western films or play western video games, as these days there is a lot of cross over in anime work. Unless the quality of the voice acting is actually sub par (Rare for the past 20 years) there really is no reason to not watch dubbed anime, aside from personal preference. You've made a great point, dubs do expand anime to a broader audience! |
 Code Lyoko, we'll reset it all Code Lyoko, be there when you call Code Lyoko, we will stand real tall Code Lyoko, stronger after all |
| I believe the biggest issue would be localization and ensuring that the localizers and writers stay true to the original intention of the Japanese script. Funimation had some pretty egregious lines that caused major issues (which ultimately led to their downfall, among other issues). Many people in the dubbing industry like to use anime as a vehicle for their own beliefs and agendas, which is always concerning, as it steals away the art that the Japanese writers, directors, and artists worked hard to make. |
MoonBunny9297 said: Thank you! :) i say this from experience too, my younger days of first discovering anime were from tv dubbed in my language. Cute sailor moon avatar btw! purplemoon_ said: YESSSS THANK you. Very well said, i agree 100%. die hard sub watchers seem to let their condescending only-this-way-is-the-correct-way attitudes get to their head a little too much sometimes, as if watching it sub somehow makes they themselves any more authentic to japan (or so they feel). Not to mention dismissing every english/non japanese voice actor just for the fact that it’s dubbed does a huge disservice and is very close minded. I’d argue dubs have helped expand the anime medium to a broader audience (example- toonami) especially for enticing newcomers, who’d probably be turned away otherwise for it being in another language. It’s great to have both because that way you can bring in people from all sides. Neither is the “better” one, it’s all about preference. English voice actors bust their asses off and anime is their passion, some do a greater job than others but the exact same can be said for the japanese voice actors. It’s not like every japanese voice actor is going to automatically do a top notch job every time, that’s just silly You've made a great point, dubs do expand anime to a broader audience! |
🌙 I wish you an ounce of luck |
| The dialogue just feels incredibly unnatural and scripted. It is often too slow like they have to drag it out to fit the animation. Vs something initially intended for an English audience like avatar where the dialogue is faster and more natural. Dub comedy simply doesn't land since you cannot really rely on synonyms, words that sound the same etc. I also find it weird how they mispronounce names vs the Japanese sounds. It is so rampant the dub almost feels fake. Watching sub feels like I am watching avatar the last airbender. Watching the dub feels like the last airbender live action. The English is so broken and stuttered it is almost like the vas aren't native speakers Yes I am at n2 level at japanese. |
icefirestone23Jul 6, 2023 10:06 AM
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