My Youth Romantic Comedy Is Wrong, As I Expected (light novel)
| I agree and that's exactly why my ratings dropped dramatically after the first season. I don't find myself giving two ducks about a high school edgelord(who claims he's a "loner")'s overdramatic love triangle and side character waifus with fake-ass personalities. I wouldn't even call it a romcom anymore because there's no comedy. But I came this far so I might as well finish it. But I wish I hadn't started this series. |
| If you read Eleceed you're automatically my friend. |
| nah. while i think they rushed the confession a bit the title of the anime literally has romantic comedy in it. so expecting no romance is just foolish |
| spot on. i was even surprised they really push the romance drama stuff this season. 1/10 final rating. |
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| Nobody promised me something about this series. I came for the title and it totally provided me what I wanted |
| I think the biggest difference of what made this anime awesome to it feeling a bit chore-ish each time is Hachiman's personality In season 1, Hachiman was awesome. I loved his personality. But in season 2 and 3, he just felt dead. Season 1 was interesting and entertaining. But seasons 2 and 3 were interesting but not entertaining. And thats because of Hachiman's personality, how likeable he was in season 1 as compared to the other seasons. |
Theroguemetal said: NakolHira said: If you like to stay a loner, struggling against the world, cool do it. Don't just assume Hachiman does want the same thing. He hates himself for those petty side of him, if you can't appreciate him for wanting to trust people, cool. Oregairu simply isn’t for you . This guy said it the best. Seriously though. That was the whole point of the show. It doesn't care about what you want. It just wants to show people what Hikigaya and people like him want. It's a story about Hikigaya's hate for himself when he says stuff that he knows doesn't make sense and is superficial. That's what changes in season 3 and that is what I think makes it so good. Hikigaya decides to let that part of him go. If you can't accept that truth then this story's not for you. Finally, this is the outcome I am trying to achieve in real life. To overcome many obstacles just to get to that point. I'm sated at the very least and loved the story of OregaiRu! Who doesn't want to overcome their past mistakes? Mostly all people would know the feeling of defeat and anguish. Do you not need any success in your life? Then why do you even live? For the sake of what or whom? Is there any point in living at this present? There were many things that his character represents and most of the time, you can only see what he is doing but the feelings he is portraying can only be seen by those who really came to that point in life. I can clearly say that, I'm very glad they animated such a fantastic story. People will say how generic a story can be but I will say the every story in real life or in fiction will always be a masterpiece in their own right/s. |
| It's not that I dislike this genre but... to add unnecessary fan services to/in/for heroines and ultimately destroys her character and personality; their purity tarnished because of it, is the only thing I hope to not happen to them. For that sole purity is my fan service. |
| Damn I thought this was an in-depth genuine explanation as to why Oregairu supposedly betrayed its own themes. Instead I was utterly betrayed and was fed nothing but lies. |
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lumiere_noir said: In the first season we see Hachiman as an edgy protagonist that have a really bad view of the world around him. Even though most of his ways of thought are wrong, the way the first season portrayed his classroom environment was spot on, considering the business world we have to face as adults: people will hurt each other to defend themselves, people will lie and live in a lie to keep their status quo, and furthermore, people will be neglected sometimes because that’s how life works. What I want to say is that in the first season the main focus of the show was how Hachiman (and Yukino) struggled against the world, how sometimes the world was mean to them but we got to see that it wasn’t that people were bad inherently, the situation made them make bad decisions. The show was about how to face the world, accept (or not) how things works and live trying to be themselves in the process, becoming mature to enter the adult world. However, as the seasons went by the show got gradually worse and worse. In the second halve of the second season the social conflict was nowhere to be seen and we started to see more of “personal” drama. This kind of drama is really good too, but I really don’t think that the solution for this anime was love. Love isn’t always the answer. Actually, in the case of people like Hachiman love can be really bad depending of how things unfold. I wanted to see them getting better by themselves, I really thinks Haruno was right: it was a codependency and in other to mature we have to know that sometimes is better to grown up and face the world alone (for some time) than giving up to “love” and make the person we like worse (seeing how Hachiman made Yukino weaker, for example). Oreigaru had so much potential to be a really mature (but funny) take of the reality, but in the end we got just another romcom with waifu wars. I have to agree. I was so drawn in initially by the premise that Hachiman would hold true to his negative world view. He sold out immediately when put into a 'service club' with 2 pretty girls. What a simp. |
NakolHira said: Codependency doesn’t even exist in real life. It’s a bullshit, Watari used a red herring for to showcase how much Hachiman and Yukino excuse themselves from reality. Hachiman loves Yukino, Yukino loves him. There's nothing wrong in trusting the guy you love or look up on him. Yeah there's nothing wrong with being dependent on somebody you want to be with. That's part of being human. I think it has more to do with Yukino's family status and her having to 'prove' something, the same way Western students have to do all these extracurricular activities as a way of differentiating themselves for college admissions to prestigious universities. Also Haruno seriously needed to mind her own business. What was she doing dispensing love advice? |
| The premise of these shows have been done a million times before: a lonely social outcast is exposed to some pretty girls and somehow they all become romantically interested in him. There's an obvious demographic this type of fantasy appeals to and it's not surprising considering they drop the big bucks on LN and merch. |
| Yeah, look at the manga art-work. That tells you everything you need to know. For a more serious take on romance, watch "Sing Yesterday for Me". |
smoledman said: NakolHira said: Codependency doesn’t even exist in real life. It’s a bullshit, Watari used a red herring for to showcase how much Hachiman and Yukino excuse themselves from reality. Hachiman loves Yukino, Yukino loves him. There's nothing wrong in trusting the guy you love or look up on him. Yeah there's nothing wrong with being dependent on somebody you want to be with. That's part of being human. I think it has more to do with Yukino's family status and her having to 'prove' something, the same way Western students have to do all these extracurricular activities as a way of differentiating themselves for college admissions to prestigious universities. Also Haruno seriously needed to mind her own business. What was she doing dispensing love advice? For the most part I agree with you, co-dependency is normal in most relationships and friendships. But the writer did a terrible job at depicting this in the last part of the LN. Yukino couldn't get anything done by herself without being saved by Hachiman. Prom 1 needed his intervention with Yukimom. Prom 2 wouldn't be a thing without him setting it up and convincing everyone to help. She wasn't able to come to grips with her romantically feeling until Hachiman confronted her. This level of needing to be "saved" isn't healthy. Compare this to Komachi's relationship with her brother. She tries to help out her brother when she can but also lives her own life. She sets him up with things but doesn't get upset when he dodges them. Co-dependency isn't an issue until you actually can't function without somebody else being there for you. |
h0ll0wxvict0ryOct 20, 2020 10:24 AM
| Also Yukino's personality was basically non-existent? Other than being a pretty face, I can't see what the appeal was for Hachiman. |
| Season 1 was the only okay/good season of oregairu because it didn't have Iroha in it |
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| I can definitely see how Hachiman and Yukino are attracted to each other due to being fellow victims of social trauma. It doesn't help Yukino that in the last couple LNs all she does is monologue and cry by herself. People complain about Yui getting too much screentime but that's because she's constantly interacting with other chracters. There's nothing to adapt for Yukino unless it's panning shots and internal monologues. |
| Yukino has shown throughout the series that she's an expert planner and project manager. Her skills absolutely contributed to the eventual success of both proms. However the issue here is that there wouldn't even BE proms if Hachiman didn't hand them to her. She had no way to overcome her mom for prom 1 and Hachiman did the leg work in getting people/other school's buy in for prom 2. Even at the very end of her character arc she couldn't confront her own feelings. It's true that Yukino can't read between the lines, but she always showed it a blunt way and always expresses herself. Yet when it comes to this she's not able to approach Hachiman and spell out her feelings to him? I understand her concerns about her family and for Yui. However, at the end of her confession she can tell him to go with Yui because of her issues and tell him why in her opinion Yui would be better for him. That's what a genuine, blunt person would do. Remember this whole series has been about pursuing what's genuine, yet at this critical juncture she wasn't able to complete this final step of her character arc. Moreover the club has ended and they likely won't associate with each other anymore (Hachiman's analysis), so there wouldn't be any awkwardness to worry about. Instead she just quietly mopes and cries, hoping somebody would come save her. Again these problems stem from the genre expectation. The princess can't be allowed to save herself before the hero has a chance to do it. The fact that the series pretty much immediately went into harem romcom mode with the club should have been a red flag. The fact that our socially awkward main character just happens to meet a girl that's beautiful and just as socially traumatized as him should have been another red flag. It never was about commentary or parody of the genre. The title of the series doesn't actually mean anything, it's just supposed to be eye catching. Ultimately the series is just another awkward MC harem romcom that's been done a million times. Honestly that's STILL fine. Nothing wrong with romcoms and they are popular for a reason. My personal issue is that the series has previously always taken a more realistic/serious route. Before when Hachiman save the day/help people but there are always consequences. But in the last part of the LN/S3 they got rid of that. He just does whatever now and everything works out. |
h0ll0wxvict0ryOct 20, 2020 4:19 PM
| Although Hachiman was interested solely in Yukino, the same can be said about Kirito and Asuna in SAO. Yet can anyone seriously argue that Kirito doesn't have a harem in SAO? Every new girl introduced start getting romantically interested in him. At least in SAO Kirito is the MF Blackswordsman. You see the same thing in Oregairu yet Hachiman was just supposed to be an awkward teenager. Girls fall in love with a random nobody that was strictly set up to be a social outcast at the beginning. That's why Oregairu is a harem show. Compare this to shows like Full Metal Alchemist, Kaguya-sama, or Your Name. Does anyone ever argue they are harems? It's interesting that you bring up nobody can do everything on their own as they each have their own strengths. When did Hachiman gain superpowers of persuasion? How can he just convince all those people and schools to agree to prom 2 when he has never shown those skills before? Yes, he has the ability to see things but if you looked at how he helped people before it always involved pointing out the obvious things nobody wanted to hear or behave in a drastic way that others must reevaluate their situation. This usually caused people to revile him which is part of his identity as a social outcast. He's not supposed to be a people person as that's supposed to be Hayama or Yui's thing. Yet he is able to achieve this now for no inexplicable reason. One of the current top reviews put it best: "Hachiman is like an isekai hero except instead of fighting his power is problem solving"(paraphrased). This then bring me my next point about Yukino. By empowering Hachiman the writer made Yukino meek and borderline useless. Yukino didn't just need Hachiman's help with part of a project. No, Yukino needed Hachiman to SAVE her so she can even have a project in prom 1. She needed Hachiman to SAVE her so she can prove herself to her family in prom 2. Finally, she needed Hachiman to SAVE her as she's not able to fully confront her feelings. Needing people's help is fine as nobody can accomplish everything on their own. However everything Yukino did in S3 only happens because Hachiman bails her out to give her a chance. That's a sad ending to an otherwise interesting character. Genuineness was never strictly defined in the series so your definition is as good as mine. In the end even Hachiman seemed to reevaluate when he sees the Hayama-Miura clique which is his ultimate example of superficial highschool friend group actually care for each other and enjoy each other company. Yet when it comes to Yukino her idea of genuineness at the minimum involves not lying. She is extremely blunt and will speak her mind. So then by lying via omission and lying to herself isn't that not being genuine by her standards? I can't recall another time in the series when she told a lie. I understand she has her insecurities about her family issues and Yui which ties her hands. However, even by your definition of "pushing your limits" how is crying and moping being genuine? That's the ultimate escapism inaction. She doesn't necessary have to surpass these issues but just confront them. I'm not saying she should have tried to convince Hachiman to get with her, rather just spell out her feelings and explain why she thinks it won't work. Hell, do SOMETHING instead of crying helplessly. |
h0ll0wxvict0ryOct 21, 2020 11:25 PM
JLucasCAraujo said: ooo333 said: I think the biggest difference of what made this anime awesome to it feeling a bit chore-ish each time is Hachiman's personality In season 1, Hachiman was awesome. I loved his personality. But in season 2 and 3, he just felt dead. Season 1 was interesting and entertaining. But seasons 2 and 3 were interesting but not entertaining. And thats because of Hachiman's personality, how likeable he was in season 1 as compared to the other seasons. So, you like an edgy teen personality? Good for you I think. But for a story to move forward you need character development. If he stayed the same annoying edgy teen nothing would change. Or perhaps he would be left behind by his peers since they would be the ones changing. I guess the saying is true, then. People really like edgy complain-y characters. This just doesn`t vibe with me. In season 1 he is basically a 4chan incel, I mean, without the inherit hate of all woman, he still liked his sister. Hachiman was edgy in season 1? not from what I remembered when I rewatched it a couple of months back. Just because a person does not have a dead-personality does not mean he is automatically edgy. |
NakolHira said: First of all, no other girls except Yui and Yukino had any romantic interests in Hachimann. This type of setting is normal and most famously used by Monogatari series, where there were only two girls who would have wanted to date him - Senjougahara and Hanekawa. Yet Monogatari's overall plot is much more problematic than Oregairu, but one thing was sure that both the narrative and the characters had only suggested for a love triangle when it comes to romance. Same as Oregairu. You are bringing Kirito's harem here, literally every other girls want to fuck him. I understand Kirito has no interest in other girls, but those girls need his dick every single time. Secondly, Hachiman has this persuasion skill from S1. He convinced a huge amount of fans to feed on his bullshit, like how they start to believe "Youth is a lie" "Nobody loves me" or whatever, his amazing skills in convincing others just doesn’t stay within the screen. I already brought out how he convinced others to go with his plan, or simply people accepted his plan (Summer camp, Cultural festival, Sports festival, SCP election arc, hayama running event, chocolate making event, S2 final episode) Not to memtion the genuine episode, just right after Yukino told him to stay away from club, he came back with the strange-most request that even he was getting emotional when speaking up the request, yet people were convinced to go with his doing. You are saying, his action always leads upto more negative consequences, I agree. Even in S3 that is true. Arranging the fake prom caused troubles to lots of people, including him and the game club. Most importantly, he even went "cringe" mode when he had to join rap battle with Tamanawa. He was a complete different person, like once he used to hate doing unnecessary works but now doing this even people asked him to stop. Prom2 had more serious problems, lacking of money and time. They are still in debt (calculating the debt in last part of final episode).Convincing Yukimama was another thing where he had to something any teenager wouldn’t do in front of their respected dults - making a scene where it seems he is blackmailing her,even Hiratsuka sensei sitting beside him was about to stop him sensing what he was about do. It could have easily turned into something worse only if Yukimama didn’t realise Hachiman's reason. I already mentioned how every important side characters excluding Haruno believed Hachiman is in love with Yukino, where Haruno with her cynical outlook saw this as something not so genuine or simple codependency. So, yes, each and every persuasion of him had negative consequences. You said solving request without having any negative consequences fits with someone like Hayama. Just telling you, Hachiman is now more normy han Hayama himself, Hayama doesn’t have a gf where Hachiman has one. Hayama still has to live fulfilling everyone's expectation except his own. Hayama's way ended up hurting him the most as he failed to protect what he holds dear most to his heart. Hachiman is selfish,negative consequences do not matter as long as people who do matter to him are happy with his doing. Finally, just reminding you, Yukino was the first to challenge their relationship back in SCP election arc. She was the first who wanted to prove their relationship isn’t as fragile as others, that it wouldn’t break even after service club is gone. Nobody told her to challenge, she herself believed it and did it. But what happened? Hachiman and Yui wasn’t ready to believe it. They went as far as they could go to shut down Yukino's plan without thinking what she was thinking. Not only that, after SCP election arc ended, Yui and Hachiman were coming to service club only to save their face, they were living with the so called superficial relationship that Hachiman used to hate. Yui supported him in this way. Ultimately, in the shopping mall, when Yukino told him the exact same line that Hachiman had said before to Hayama "If this only is required for our relationship to fall apart, maybe it wasn’t never strong likely" This made Hachiman realising his mistake that he was doing from S2 beginning, how he appeared only-to-talk but none-to-prove. Just saying, Yukino with the tremendous mental pressure she has been through, was the first to take a step up to their relationship and confront its shape but she was stopped everytime by Hachiman and Yui. It’s cruel to blame her when she was the first to take the initiative. If Haruno never tried to interven, specially in the chocolate making event, Yukino should have succeeded in giving Hachiman chocolates and confront her feelings the way you wanted, even if Yui tried to antagonise her. About why she didn’t confront her feelings until Hachiman came, I already explained it. From her perspective, Hachiman was enjoying being with Yui, and she was suffering from her insecurities about her ownself. Unlike Yui, she didn’t want to step in for someone who is seen to be more comfortable around other girl. She is kind, she always has been. And it’s not that rare in our worlds too, one individual wouldn’t just step in knowing the other is seen to be in a relationship. Well obviously, except Yui. And don't put unnecessary importance to genuine thing. Hachiman remained vague about it, Yukino didn’t understand but was trying to understand it (by Yui's definition presented in the rejection scene,simply trying would fill in the gaps between not knowing and understanding) and Yui didn’t even want it cz it doesn’t benefit her. If just "not lying" is called genuine, then Hachiman already contradicted with his genuine by simply telling lies to himself and feeding others to it. It's all part of his defence mechanism, where he used it not to get hurt again. Just think, by the end of series he believed he didn’t even gain this genuine. Series ended with apparently Hachiman saying he didn’t get this one thing he desired for. So it isn’t THAT important to hold into. The actual point of genuine scene is that he was able ask something personal and selfish to those two persons. And what triggers this event is the exact day before where Yukinoshita told him to take a break from club. It is just, Hachiman didn’t want to lose connection with her, even with making excuses at that time. First of all at the minimum Iroha was interested in him. How many guys do you think a girl like her knows, out of all of them why do you think she picks him to go on mock dates and help her out with things? Moreover in a monologue she explicitly states if he asked her out she would accept if he asked her out. Her and Yui are significantly more aggressive than the girls in SAO even before Kirito and Asuna got together (until Alice came along). There's also Saki who's interest is more up to debate, but hey you can also make that argument for members of Kirito's harem as well. The persuasion skills you are talking about isn't Hachiman's in-world skills. The fans that "feed on his bullshit", aka the otakus that buy merch and LN, are just people who relate to this due to their own social isolation. That's a nod to the writer's depiction of the character, not the character's persuasion skills within the setting. Remember the literal premise of the show is that due to his social trauma he came up with the genuine/superficial theory to cope and justify his situation. Guess in all that time when he was keeping minimum contact with people he was reading self help books on how to persuade people. Maybe he can recommend some of those to me so I can become a superhuman negotiator as well. For S3 you are mixing up solution and goal. For example, in the festival arc his solution on the rooftop with the committee president is pointing out harsh things to her with the goal of getting her to the auditorium. In the school trip arc his solution to the goal of preventing Tobi's confession is his own "confession" which makes him look like an ass and for people not in the know to treat him awkwardly. In S3 his solution to getting people to help with this goal of prom 2 resulted in... people helping him? What sort of negative consequence is that? If they didn't help him then he would have to get somebody else to do the work or do it himself. No, in S3 there were only positive consequences to go along with his superhuman persuasion skills. Your point about Yukino taking the initiative in S2 just strengthens my point about her bad development in S3. In her own way she was someone that was unafraid to confront the unknown. This again fits into her personality as a blunt and no bullshit type of person. See in your previous post you said Yukino couldn't take the initiative because of her family issues, and now you are saying it's because of Yui? I've been saying the entire time it's because of both. However here again you have the order backwards. After the S2 finale nothing was set in stone yet. Hachiman didn't start spending a lot of time with Yui until AFTER Yukino came to the conclusion that Yui was better for him. At this time she had the opportunity to tell him her true feelings but chose to uncharacteristically lie by omission. Instead of being her usual direct self she decided to lie, cry, and mope. That's out of character for her and part of my issue with the ending. Finally, the pursuit of what's "genuine" is extremely important to the series. It's the main motivator to Hachiman and it's what attracted him to Yukino (alongside her beauty of course). Although "genuine" is never fully defined, throughout the story we see subtle changes with how Hachiman interacts with each character as his interpretation of it changes. Yukino might not be fully aware of the concept but that's because her approach to life already is what Hachiman considered to be "genuine". That's why her break from it at the most crucial moment was such a disappointing development. |
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