your name.
See also on Reddit !! NOTE THIS WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS OF PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING !! =ONLY FOR THOSE WHO'VE SEEN THE MOVIE= To start off, i'll make some controversial comments on Makoto Shinkai as a director. Shinkai is someone who makes extremely abstruse plot-lines which are usually quite difficult to decode and understand, while keeping the focus on the simpler character stories and the visuals. Though his films may not all have been great, i don't recall any of them having been at all riddled with holes or lazy unsolvable contrivances. I am a person who isn't good at much, but if there is anything i can confidently say i'm an expert at, it is solving unanswered questions. I am trained in a form of reasoning called retroduction; it is a form of inverse logic - negating everything you know or think you know, and then studying what remains to find the fundamental. I am not an analyst nor an opinion driven person, but rather prefer a panscopic (all-inclusive) approach in philosophy (philosophy actually means true-understanding/wisdom-seeking). Pretentious-looking introductions aside, i will be doing technical analysis for this and drawing philosophical conclusions... This movie came out, and let's face it, it took the world by storm. Initially everyone was praising the bejesus out of it, and then people started getting bothered by the technical flaws, and that lead to the bandwagon effect reducing public opinion. At first i thought that this movie was designed where it was goal-focused on emotional set piece and neglected more technical details of its construction, that is until someone said something in a podcast i was listening to, which made my brain explode. They said that it was like a dream-state. Then it hit me: most of the movie is is happening in a dream. ...Now i know that sounds like the typical fairy-tail cop-out explanation "it was all a dream" but bear with me. Though i should point out that japanese DO like the romanticism of such ideas. • • • For starters i should address the very first scene after the opening. If you didn't notice, this is an exact copy of when they bump into eachother on the train. Mitsuha throws the braided thread that was woven (the movie continuously analogizes time as a thread which is woven into patterns), and upon passing the thread she had woven (the time she's woven) to Taki, that is when the bond is made and the "body swap" begin for her, however the time gap delay's Taki's end starting by 3 years, relative to the time from around when she started weaving the thread in the movie. A quick note on the time travel: there is only one time, this is NOT a many-worlds interpretation, and it is not a world-rewrite type either, this is the alinear predestination type... i will explain this later. I will also explain later why i put "body swap" in quotations. Time notation for japan is 年(year, 月(month), 日(day), and then day of the week (月/火/水/木/金/土/日)曜日. Body(Mind) 【9月3日？曜日 (extrapolated)】 In the very first scene is already 3 years later Taki waking up as Mitsuha, and not too long before Mitsuha goes looking for Taki and eventually bumping into him on the train. 【9月4日？曜日 (on tv, comet proxy date is 10月4日)】 The following day, Mitsuha is back to normal, having been unaware of her prior day of Taki supplanting her consciousness with his own. She comments on having had a dream of someone else's life, meaing she'd already experienced the following scene. 【2016年9月5日月曜日】 After the Kagura Dance and Kuchikamizake, Mitsuha wakes up in Taki's body. "Hen no yume (strange dream)," Mitsuha says. The phone rings, and has no year on it, though it does display monday. The classroom door has 2016 on it, but not visible from Taki(Mitsuha)'s perspective outside the door. She continues to make comments about it being a dream. 【2016年9月6日火曜日 (extrapolated)】 Taki sees the feminine powers text. He has the braided thread on his wrist. Normal state. 【2016年9月13日火曜日】 Taki flips back a day to look at the 12th on his phone, because Mitsuha walked Miki home. September 13th is a tuesday in 2016. Normal state. 【9月13日金曜日】 Mitsuha flips back a day to look at 12th (thursday) on her phone because Taki made a scene. September 13 is a friday in the year 2013. Normal state. They realize they're switching places. The music montage ensues. They realize that sleep is the cause. Memory is hazy after waking up, indicating memory loss. A random detail you might not have noticed, they changed the colour schemes in eachothers' phones. 【9月14日土曜日 (on tv)】 Mitsuha(Taki) comes down the stairs in school uniform, thinking it's a school day, but it's saturday (meaning it must be the 14th, not the 24th). Hitoha(grandma) talks about "Musubi" which sounds a lot like Dao(Tao). She explains that Musubi is the interweaving of threads, and also elected to mention that drinking ir also Musubi, which is referring to the flow or Dao, which is relative to time if intertwined. They put the Kuchikamizake into the shrine. Grandma says it's half of Mitsuha. Taki expresses not knowing of the comet. Grandma says, "Mitsuha, you're dreaming right now, aren't you?" I noticed the TV only showed specific dates for the comet updates, and those dates all appear to be on normal state days, meaning Taki never saw the news update on the comet. The mentions of dreaming kep popping up, and Hitoha(grandma) asking Mitsuha(Taki) if (s)he's dreaming is the first reality break. Also, if you were paying attention, the comet has never been present in the sky over Tokyo in Taki's time. Mitsuha never noticed the comet missing, because she was so enamoured by Tokyo, and Taki wasn't aware of its existence. Mitsuha says, "Ii na, imagoro futari wa issho ka (How nice, so they must be together now)..." Indicating she doesn't realize that the switches aren't simultaneous. They didn't see the years, just as we didn't. They didn't second-glance at the calendars because the viewers didn't either; the mind only read the number unless they paused the frame. This hereby replicates the nature of dreams (and reality in a way too frankly), is that you do not perceive what you are not aware exists. You could be in a grocery store staring right at what you're looking for, but be scanning back and forth never seeing it. In the nature of a dream, you only are aware of what is relevant to the dream, even if it is a lucid dream. I believe that the days of the week were merely put there for the watchers who have very keen eyes and are likely to spot things that most people wouldn't, certainly not on the first watch through. And this is the abstrusity of Makoto Shinkai's directoral style. A good story gives plenty of little clues, and increases the apparentness of the clues on the approach to the twist. Different people of different keenness will notice at different times as the movie progresses, or think they know but aren't confirmed yet in their minds - this is an investment tactic to suck you in. Mitsuha has her hair cut and seems to see the comet split, this whole day never happened, and by the clang of the bell... 【2016年10月2日日曜日】 Date. He tries calling Mitsuha, then a red herring on Mitsuha's phone ringing to trip you up. You get the spectacle of Tiamat, and then ohnoes, number cannot be reached. Taki starts dedicating his time to find Mitsuha by the scenery. They meet the people in the coffee shop who mention that it is Itomori. They realize that that is where the comet hit. Note that they did not say anything about deaths. This is where retroductive reasoning shines, you can learn a lot from what is NOT said or shown vs what is said or shown. THe town is destroyed as expected, and the school is intact. Fujii(glasses) says, "Surely you remember that disaster that took hundreds of lives 3 years ago!" Showing a scene with the coffee shop follow smoking, so misdirect you into thinking he said it, but ultimately this statement is more like a rumor. Taki is unaware of deaths, and the phone starts corrupting into random symbols and deleting itself, fading like your memory of a dream after you wake up. 【2016年10月21日金曜日】 News articles say over 500 dead or missing, and this is after the death concept has been invoked into his lucid mind. The line where grandma mentions the dreaming is said once again. At this point, dream and reality ar actually unclear, despite it giving the impression of being solidly real. We are made aware of the wrist band which he has had on the entire time, even in earlier scenes, the thread that Mitsuha made and was keeping their times intertwined. The thread represents time, meaning she gave him her time. Taki goes to the caldera to find the shrine, the last hope of anything left of Mitsuha, something to confirm and connect with her existence. He clearly seems to remember about Musubi, meaning he also remembers Musubi to be drinking as well. So, here's a question, why does he still remember all of this so well? Because he's dreaming still. Taki takes a swig of Mitsuha's wonderful saliva-sake, and really goes down the rabbit hole... Upon drinking the kuchikamizake, the time/mind of the thread (fragment) given to him, combined with the sake (half), he gets interconnected with Mitsuha's entire life, and to the comet, which is connected with the potential end of her life. The significance of Hitoha(grandma) taking her in, is that she teaches Mitsuha how to weave time. The scene of the comet hitting the ground is all a fabrication of Taki's fears within the psychedelic trance, we see again the day where she sees the comet splinter and the clang of the bell. Taki is able to interact with Mitsuha outside of the normal exact 3-year gap because of becoming closer entwined with her time, and as before, went to ONE DAY PRIOR to the braided thread being contacted. If you hadn't noticed by now, the "body swaps" seem to happen the day prior to when Taki wore the braided thread; this is emphasized by the always flipping one day back on the calendars before. Hitoha(grandma) remembers having the strange dreams as a child, though she forgets who it was (because it was a dream). When she learned to weave time, she must have connected her thread with someone and gotten involved. That said, her case would not have been correlated with any comet events, and would have been mundane. The "body swapping" is probably connected hereditary and happens every generation or so, but is not correlated to comet events except for on the dates the comet actually interacts with earth. One could hypothesize that this time weaving was actually first entangled and discovered by a comet event, making Tiamat the original weaver of time. When studying ancient mythology, comets have always been units to measure timespans between cosmic events, including disaster: the first seeing of a comet is the initiation of timekeeping of that element. "Treasure the experience, because dreams fade away after you wake up," another reference by dear old granny. She doesn't believe the comet striking, because that's beyond even her experience. Taki sets off to save the town, and her friends see her cut hair for the first time, because the dream of her being her and watching the comet fragment splinter never really happened. The clang of the bell shows that that whole prior red herring scene with her having cut hair and seeing the comet fall was actually just in Taki's dream when he drank the kuchikamizake. Yotsuha mentions how Mitsuha went to Tokyo (which would have been when she bumped into him on the train and handed him the braided thread (time) in the beginning. Once again we have a "body swap" one day prior, and the completion of the loop, which begins with the thread contact on the train, and ends with the kuchikamizake, but intertwines everything else. Every switch has been 1 day prior, because there was a 1 day gap between the kuchikamizake and the impact; the kuchikamizake putting Taki to sleep into a dream. Mitsuha is again in Taki's body, after having drank the kuchikamizake. She gets injected with the intertwined dream from Taki and the comet etc, and believes she died from it, but it never really happened. Actually there is one factor that complicates it, and that being from the point of the kuchikamizake until the comet hit, which may have a duality timeline in it, making the dream of the impact not totally fictional, but rather a rebound effect like in the kuchikamizake scene of the comet hitting causing like water, causing a drop to rebound upward, this being the projection of the comet hitting and killing them. The rebound comes back to the kuchikamizake part which is directly parallel to the scene where Mitsuha gives Taki the braided thread, which explains the 3 year gap, and is the original contact of the thread of Musubi with the surface of the existential. They meat on the mountain top, no literally, but through time and mind, within the dreams themselves. Kataware-doki; the dawn/dusk, the transition from one to the other. The point in which the water drop retrogrades in its motion, and begins its return to the surface. They are able to meet eachother because their minds are crossing paths through time. Alto the point in which they realize that the thread is time, and Taki returns it to Mitsuha, giving back her time (he's present in HER time when they are together. The dream ends; he begins forgetting, because he woke up. Mitsuha continues on to save herself in order to meet Taki. Because of the time cross and sharing mind, Mitsuha holds onto the memory of both herself and Taki, as Taki had gained the memories of both upon drinking the kuchikamizake, which was the period of the drop ascending from the surface, and kataware-doki being the crest, and now Mitsuha gets both on the descent. This whole period is the time-crunch limbo, like a game of jacks or otedama, where you must pick up as many things as possible while the ball is in the air. The comet hits Mitsuha's home, probably exactly where the braided thread (time) was first woven. Another red herring to make you think they didn't make it in time and that the 500+ dead was real. 5 years of normalcy pass for Taki, and 8 years for Mitsuha. Taki feels like he's been longing to find someone, there's a german word for this: sehnsucht. They keep searching for something they can't remember, until finally finding eachother. My theory is that the "body swapping" is not a literal mechanical swapping, but an asynchronous astral projection. When one goes to sleep, they dream of the whole day as the other, and then wake up as being the other, which was dreamt in the other's sleep. 1 night's dream = 1 day's possession. The reasoning for this is that it sends home the dream concept; dream time goes much faster than real time. Why is the dream concept necessary? Because of memory. When you wake from a dream, you only remember it for a short while and it is a difficult struggle to hold onto it, and even momentary distraction can let it slip away entirely. This is the whole concept behind Your Name, because remembering the name of the other when the dream ends will be painfully difficult and potentially impossible. In the end, they meet up, and ask if they know eachother, because it's like they've met in a dream. That is exactly what happened, in a dream. The timeline never changed, the whole scenario was an entanglement of time and mind, which ultimately lead to the escape of the townspeople, and to the connecting of the braided string which intertwined their dreams, spirits, and time, and made the hard-loop, which is an alinear predestination. Now the timeline works without rewrites or alternate realities, because Mitsuha never died in the first place. This entire scenario was because Taki THOUGHT Mitsuha died from the comet fragment, and went through the whole process in order to save her. Mitsuha was always alive, because she gave him the braided thread to him and started his journey to save her. If time is a weaving of thread, or water, then the entire movie's flow of time is like a thread woven around a droplet hitting the surface of the body of water (drop impact); a pulse perturbation in the continuum. Exactly as depicted in the sequence when Taki drinks the kuchikamizake.  Edit: GenesisAria said: I might add something about the time stuff and the concerns people have about the contrivance factor; having expertise in time i can give some insight here... See if you think about it, the way time works, for there to be a non-paradoxical alinear timeline, absolutely nothing can go wrong, because it's a closed loop, it's self-defining. Likewise my dream explanation makes sense because they HAD to be quasi-lucid and obliviously missing the years and not thinking about the dates (hence the confusion on a weekend), because if they didn't, it could have changed everything, resulting in Mitsuha never giving the braided thread (opening the time loop) to Taki, and Mitsuha would have died. There's a difference between a lazy convenient contrivance, and a necessary force-constraint (the only accurate term for this it the greek word ananke; for example, you can't go for a walk without first standing up). Basically, it's a stroke of absurd luck that they happened to both be completely oblivious, else Mitsuha would have died. And that's why this story was told, BECAUSE it was exceptional, not because it was ordinary or probable. People accuse Makoto Shinkai of style over substance, when in reality, his substance has so much esoteric depth to it, that most people don't even fully grasp what is going on. Rather than too much visuals, his issue is not making his stories more accessible to the less witted public, and is where he excelled this time around, making a story that is comprehensible on various levels by viewers of varying sharpness. I will say again, Makoto Shinkai's fault is excessive esotericism, not excessive visuals. Makoto Shinkai said: ' ' So with all of that combined I felt like, when I set out to make this movie, I really wanted to incorporate elements of comedy as well as unpredictability for the audience. In doing so, I came up with this very complex timeline narrative structure. At that point, I didn't necessarily feel like understanding the complex structure and timeline was necessary for the audience. If anything, I wanted to shift the focus to the relationship between the two main characters, our protagonist and romantic interest. In doing so, I think that understanding the complexities of the timeline wasn't most important in achieving the comedy and unpredictability I was going for. ' ' http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2016-12-20/interview-makoto-shinkai/.110150 All of that said there is one irredeemable scientific issue with this entire story, and that is the comet fragment itself. I could also go into the nature of how this alinear time knot thing could sill work when in the real world time is not a medium and cannot be travelled through, but that would be a very long trip down a very deep rabbit hole of arcane ontology. To keep it simple, we'll say that for effect, it makes sense descriptively (in the same sense that dimensions are misconceptions). I sincerely doubt Makoto Shinkai knows the true metaphysical nature of time, so i wouldn't expect that to be part of his story. I would be overthinking if i went down that road. Makoto Shinkai's time fluctuations are created by the comet, the weaving of the threads, and the kuchikamizake. Their family's time abilities may have been created thousands of years ago by the comet itself, hence the narrative comparable to how the ancients used comets as time-keeping tools between major events. All my references to mythology and Daoism are speculative comparisons based on my knowledge, he may have included them because of those ideas, and it may have been unintentional. I adore this movie immeasurably, i used to think it was a work of poetic contrivances, and i was absolutely joyous to truly delve into it and fully discovery its secrets, and to find out how wrong i truly was about it. This has been an anime-philosophical reassessment, and thank you for spending the time to read this. -- GensisAria |
GenesisAriaAug 11, 2017 9:02 PM
❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| If anyone would like to share this elsewhere, or would like to make a youtube video for it, please let me know in a PM! |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| If you write my summary of that wall of text i would discuss. |
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| Well, a comet probably couldn't release a shockwave strong enough to produce a crater anyway. It's too unconsolidated and would disintegrate in the upper atmosphere rather than explode. As for the timeline part, I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole. |
Jex said: Based on what? Compared to what?This is one of the most pretentious overthought things I've read. Protip: the story gave me the answers; i didn't pull them out of my ass and impose them onto what i was watching like people tend to do, that's called overthinking. What i did was not overthinking. Swagernator said: That was the summary.If you write my summary of that wall of text i would discuss. Brb said: Tunguska, Chelyabinsk, countless other cases tell you you're very much mistaken. They airburst with nuclear yield. You should study the actual cases. Here is an example of an analysis of the Chelyabinsk event. They'd have to make it very close to the ground to make a significant crater, but it's possible. Electrical arcing can also form craters, ironically the electrically created craters in labs are more accurate to the appearance of real craters than any of the NASA-related cannon tests. Point was that it's not a reliable model, and it was a minor point anyways, that's why i put it in a spoiler.Well, a comet probably couldn't release a shockwave strong enough to produce a crater anyway. It's too unconsolidated and would disintegrate in the upper atmosphere rather than explode. Brb said: Why not?As for the timeline part, I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole. |
GenesisAriaAug 8, 2017 5:42 AM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: Jex said: Based on what? Compared to what?This is one of the most pretentious overthought things I've read. Swagernator said: That is the summary.If you write my summary of that wall of text i would discuss. Brb said: Tunguska, Chelyabinsk, countless other cases tell you you're very much mistaken. They airburst with nuclear yield. You should study the actual cases. Here is an example of an analysis of the Chelyabinsk even.Well, a comet probably couldn't release a shockwave strong enough to produce a crater anyway. It's too unconsolidated and would disintegrate in the upper atmosphere rather than explode. Well those are meteors, not comets. Shinkai's comet is not a plausible meteor as it involved nucleus splitting, a trait unique to comets, also, vapour trails, which makes it a comet rather than a meteor. Comets have an s.g. of 0.6~0.9, low magnetism (which makes splitting possible, since they are unconsolidated gas, vapour and dust). The Tunguska incident is considered more likely to be a meteor rather than a comet. Though incidentally, the curvature of the comet is more plausible for a meteor due to its trajectory (a comet's would be more linear rather than curved) so it falls on neither one anyway. GenesisAria said: Brb said: Why not?As for the timeline part, I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole. Relativity isn't my kind of thing, and discussing the hows and whatnot of that is a notch higher, so I'll pass on that one.Plus theoretical spacetime geometries was the last thing I heard of that and that shit boggles me. I mean just look at the working model: time dilation and spatial displacement (or meta since the mind does not take up space) and then you'd have to cover how the backwards travel happened, diverging then converging frames of reality and tons more. Best leave it to fiction mechanics. Edit, I mean asteroid, not meteor (it would have been a meteor either way). |
BrbAug 8, 2017 6:04 AM
Brb said: Funny you should mention that, because none of this is relativity at all, and SR/GR are not quite correct anyways, they're approximations which ElectroMagnetic Retardation theory can get more accurate and without reifying space as something that doing things.Relativity isn't my kind of thing, and discussing the hows and whatnot of that is a notch higher, so I'll pass on that one.Plus theoretical spacetime geometries was the last thing I heard of that and that shit boggles me. I mean just look at the working model: time dilation and spatial displacement (or meta since the mind does not take up space) and then you'd have to cover how the backwards travel happened, diverging then converging frames of reality and tons more. Best leave it to fiction mechanics. See the whole time thing here, it cheats, it gets away with it by being a closed loop. It's not actually reverse "time travel" because it's only mind that's traversing, not physical things (in reality, time is determined by the motion and change of physical things, a byproduct), but they do it in such a way that the whole process is like a temporal "quantum entanglement". This one period in time is blown open like a cross-section, and because it's self-contained, it can retrograde as well. Note that quantum entanglement doesn't mean magically connected particles, it refers to observing different parts of the same wave front at different locations.  It's really hard to explain, but it's a concept i came up with years ago when i was trying to think of how to justify the whole multiple-clones attack thing like in Blades of Time, as a plausible possibility for the clones attack, by not rewinding, but placing a relative anchor, and then circling around it like a torus converging at the point of singularity, returning to than anchor repeatedly until letting go and returning to normal time. GenesisAria said: If you look at my water drop diagram, i explained that the period in which they are dead is a reflection. a holographic projection by the process of the drop, real, but not actually part of the real timeline. Enough to give the impression that time changed, but didn't, but also allowing that apparent alternate reality to not be magically from nowhere, because it all happens in that gap between the giving of the beaded thread, and the drinking of the kuchikamizake, which is when time was split open and showed all kinds of things - why the memories could switch places etc. When it comes to non-euclidean geometry in optics, you can get all kinds of effects that result in inverse images and other illusions, in which the brain could easily fill in the gaps of interpretation, giving a false conclusion. The irony ofc being that projection of beyond the physical that never happened, seeing that is exactly WHY it never happened. Note that is me explaining in semi-scientific terms something that Shinkai probably just saw intuitively. |
GenesisAriaAug 8, 2017 3:37 PM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
aiem said: The year is not displayed on their phones, they didn't pay attention to the day of the week, because they got confused when it wasn't a school day etc... They were living lives completely off their schedules based on what tomorrow is.There still wouldn't be a fix to that biggest Frodo moment of how they could miss the year so bad. My suspension of disbelief would only go so far. And again with the dream explanation, they may have been literally unable to perceive the year, because it would have broken the time loop. See, non-paradoxical timey shit requires a lot of fucky perceptual glitches. I've actually experimented with this myself, trying to change a random premonition (sometimes confused with dejavu) moment of waving my hand in a certain way in front of the screen. Let me tell you it doesn't work. If you had changed it, you would never have seen it, therefore you wouldn't have had to change it. Same with time shit, it ANYTHING was different, Mitsuha may never have given Taki the braided thread (time) in the first place. They were oblivious because it was a force constraint of the time plot and outcome. That's why it seems overly contrived, and it would in the real world. Without the specific chain of "coincidences" happening in a certain way and certain order, the whole incident wouldn't have happened in the first place. Basically, it's a stroke of absurd luck that they happened to both be completely oblivious, else Mitsuha would have died. And that's why this story was told, BECAUSE it was exceptional, not because it was ordinary or probable. @Ezekiel You should see this too, seeing as you mentioned the contrivance factor. There's a difference between convenient contrivance, and force-constraint or necessary contrivance (the greek word for that is ananke). |
GenesisAriaAug 9, 2017 5:58 PM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
aiem said: It seems you also missed the meaning for the dream thing... They dream of being in eachothers' bodies, and by doing so project their minds into eachothers' bodies, like an astral projection: a transmission. When one dreams of being in the other body, the mind is transmitted to that body in the same way as a dream. When it happens as a lucid dream, regardless of the body doing real things, it's easy to confuse reality from dream, and it's also possible for perceptive elements to be added or subtracted by subconscious. It was more than clearly established that dreaming = remembering, and forgetting = waking up.Also it wasn't a dream as they were actively participating in the events. Because if it was a dream, Mitsuha wouldn't be able to actively influence Taki's present days. Remember that there were changes in his relationship because of what Mitsuha has done. Call it a time slipper in a sense but not a dreamer. it was reality. |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
aiem said: No, you're still missing it... Just because the switching was in a dream, DOES NOT MEAN DIDN'T HAPPEN. The stwitches were real, but they're not literally, they dream of being in eachothers' bodies, and while dreaming, they actually control the waking body of the other while asleep at home.GenesisAria said: It seems you also missed the meaning for the dream thing... They dream of being in eachothers' bodies, and by doing so project their minds into eachothers' bodies, like an astral projection: a transmission. When one dreams of being in the other body, the mind is transmitted to that body in the same way as a dream. When it happens as a lucid dream, regardless of the body doing real things, it's easy to confuse reality from dream, and it's also possible for perceptive elements to be added or subtracted by subconscious. It was more than clearly established that dreaming = remembering, and forgetting = waking up. I didn't miss that point. It's at this point that they were unsure of how it was. They described it to be a dream like stance. But clearly when having those memos exist they were not dreaming. Again. There's a clear boundary between reality and dreams here so your argument doesn't necessarily cover the problems the movie had with it's concept. A night = B day B night = A day When they're both sleeping, they're just sleeping, when they wake up they are seemingly in eachothers' bodies, but remember it's TIME TRAVEL, the night sleep is when controlling the day body, they don't control the body during the day, because their body is being controlled. |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: Brb said: Funny you should mention that, because none of this is relativity at all, and SR/GR are not quite correct anyways, they're approximations which ElectroMagnetic Retardation theory can get more accurate and without reifying space as something that doing things.Relativity isn't my kind of thing, and discussing the hows and whatnot of that is a notch higher, so I'll pass on that one.Plus theoretical spacetime geometries was the last thing I heard of that and that shit boggles me. I mean just look at the working model: time dilation and spatial displacement (or meta since the mind does not take up space) and then you'd have to cover how the backwards travel happened, diverging then converging frames of reality and tons more. Best leave it to fiction mechanics. See the whole time thing here, it cheats, it gets away with it by being a closed loop. It's not actually reverse "time travel" because it's only mind that's traversing, not physical things (in reality, time is determined by the motion and change of physical things, a byproduct), but they do it in such a way that the whole process is like a temporal "quantum entanglement". This one period in time is blown open like a cross-section, and because it's self-contained, it can retrograde as well. Note that quantum entanglement doesn't mean magically connected particles, it refers to observing different parts of the same wave front at different locations. It's really hard to explain, but it's a concept i came up with years ago when i was trying to think of how to justify the whole multiple-clones attack thing like in Blades of Time, as a plausible possibility for the clones attack, by not rewinding, but placing a relative anchor, and then circling around it like a torus converging at the point of singularity, returning to than anchor repeatedly until letting go and returning to normal time. GenesisAria said: If you look at my water drop diagram, i explained that the period in which they are dead is a reflection. a holographic projection by the process of the drop, real, but not actually part of the real timeline. Enough to give the impression that time changed, but didn't, but also allowing that apparent alternate reality to not be magically from nowhere, because it all happens in that gap between the giving of the beaded thread, and the drinking of the kuchikamizake, which is when time was split open and showed all kinds of things - why the memories could switch places etc. When it comes to non-euclidean geometry in optics, you can get all kinds of effects that result in inverse images and other illusions, in which the brain could easily fill in the gaps of interpretation, giving a false conclusion. The irony ofc being that projection of beyond the physical that never happened, seeing that is exactly WHY it never happened. Note that is me explaining in semi-scientific terms something that Shinkai probably just saw intuitively. GenesisAria said: Brb said: Funny you should mention that, because none of this is relativity at all, and SR/GR are not quite correct anyways, they're approximations which ElectroMagnetic Retardation theory can get more accurate and without reifying space as something that doing things.Relativity isn't my kind of thing, and discussing the hows and whatnot of that is a notch higher, so I'll pass on that one.Plus theoretical spacetime geometries was the last thing I heard of that and that shit boggles me. I mean just look at the working model: time dilation and spatial displacement (or meta since the mind does not take up space) and then you'd have to cover how the backwards travel happened, diverging then converging frames of reality and tons more. Best leave it to fiction mechanics. See the whole time thing here, it cheats, it gets away with it by being a closed loop. It's not actually reverse "time travel" because it's only mind that's traversing, not physical things (in reality, time is determined by the motion and change of physical things, a byproduct), but they do it in such a way that the whole process is like a temporal "quantum entanglement". This one period in time is blown open like a cross-section, and because it's self-contained, it can retrograde as well. Note that quantum entanglement doesn't mean magically connected particles, it refers to observing different parts of the same wave front at different locations. It's really hard to explain, but it's a concept i came up with years ago when i was trying to think of how to justify the whole multiple-clones attack thing like in Blades of Time, as a plausible possibility for the clones attack, by not rewinding, but placing a relative anchor, and then circling around it like a torus converging at the point of singularity, returning to than anchor repeatedly until letting go and returning to normal time. Yeah, this here is why I'd prefer not to touch on that subject. It's a fixed timeline travel(based on the thread, which happened already prior to the events) yet at the same time there's a closed loop due to Taki's future actions. Hypothetically it could be two things (a parallel and a fixed time travel) or two types existing in the same universe? Eh fuck it, this is too hypothetical for me. |
Brb said: The scene where it actually hits with them all there for the story's red hering, would have been when Taki drank the kuchikamizake, as we saw it all happen then. The only way for that to work without magical impossible time paradoxes, is if that was a probabalistic image projected via reflection - ie what would have happened to her time had he not drank the kuchikamizake. That whole scene is where the time gets really knotted and clusterfucked, and where you see glimpses of other things which the mind can fill in the blanks an give false impressions and so on... Making that other reality not a real reality but a mental image - an image he needed to see or else he wouldn't have gone to try and save the town.It's a fixed timeline travel(based on the thread, which happened already prior to the events) yet at the same time there's a closed loop due to Taki's future actions. Hypothetically it could be two things (a parallel and a fixed time travel) or two types existing in the same universe? Eh fuck it, this is too hypothetical for me. You could say there were 2 realities, but the part where it seemed to kill them was only really scene in particular bits, and he used that bell sound to connect the scene with the dream thing (and with that how the time lines would have been out of sync to where Mitsuha would have been gone from Itomori, and in Tokyo with a new phone, so Taki unable to call her from the walk bridge, and the switches not happening anymore because he was already a few days past the 3-year gap from the impact time) it shows it's more likely it was something he merely saw in the kuchikamizake psychedelic trip.. |
GenesisAriaAug 10, 2017 4:27 PM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| How do you explain the list of 500 names dead or missing? Yes you said it could be either - but in a later scene it is stated that nobody was dead and only 104 persons were wounded. So first why would I speak of "dead or missing" if i only meant missing? And second, why would she be on that list of missing persons if she was with everyone in the evacuated school? Just because you are part of a natural disaster doesn't mean they say you are "missing" only because you are now living in tokio - she and all the oher persons on that list would have been identified. I liked the movie, but it doesn't seem like a perfect time loop. Maybe they shouldn't have brought the list in it |
Arcos said: How do you explain the list of 500 names dead or missing? Yes you said it could be either - but in a later scene it is stated that nobody was dead and only 104 persons were wounded. So first why would I speak of "dead or missing" if i only meant missing? And second, why would she be on that list of missing persons if she was with everyone in the evacuated school? Just because you are part of a natural disaster doesn't mean they say you are "missing" only because you are now living in tokio - she and all the oher persons on that list would have been identified. I liked the movie, but it doesn't seem like a perfect time loop. Maybe they shouldn't have brought the list in it It is a perfect loop, it's just not a simple loop. The scene of the dead etc is most likely when Taki was still dreaming, hence he was remembering about Mitsuha etc still. Seeing the messages disappear from the phone was your first clue that it was not reality. The messages wouldn't corrupt and delete themselves unless he was losing memory of it and it was fading, because he was realizing that something wasn't real. The DREAM of seeing all of Itomori die to the meteor is necessary or else Taki would not have been able to help save them, and told Mitsuha about it, BUT at the same time it cannot be physically what actually happens because time rewrites don't make sense and it is unnecessary for this movie, because the more realistic option is still applicable. @Mariecat1 The first picture is not mine, it's official. The water drop diagram is for people to spread anywhere they like. I'm still not positive if i should have the kataware-doki on the separate drop and the dream as the reflection, or the dream as the separate drop and kateware-doki as the tip of the connected part that goes up... edit: i fixed it up a bit. |
GenesisAriaAug 11, 2017 8:59 PM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: Arcos said: How do you explain the list of 500 names dead or missing? Yes you said it could be either - but in a later scene it is stated that nobody was dead and only 104 persons were wounded. So first why would I speak of "dead or missing" if i only meant missing? And second, why would she be on that list of missing persons if she was with everyone in the evacuated school? Just because you are part of a natural disaster doesn't mean they say you are "missing" only because you are now living in tokio - she and all the oher persons on that list would have been identified. I liked the movie, but it doesn't seem like a perfect time loop. Maybe they shouldn't have brought the list in it It is a perfect loop, it's just not a simple loop. The scene of the dead etc is most likely when Taki was still dreaming, hence he was remembering about Mitsuha etc still. Seeing the messages disappear from the phone was your first clue that it was not reality. The messages wouldn't corrupt and delete themselves unless he was losing memory of it and it was fading, because he was realizing that something wasn't real. The DREAM of seeing all of Itomori die to the meteor is necessary or else Taki would not have been able to help save them, and told Mitsuha about it, BUT at the same time it cannot be physically what actually happens because time rewrites don't make sense and it is unnecessary for this movie, because the more realistic option is still applicable. So does this mean he didn't have memos in the first place in reality or how would he lose them later? I mean even if he forgot about all of this, he would have checked his Phone and saw some messages from the past and would be wondering what this was about. |
| @Arcos The memos are real, they didn't actually delete from his phone... ...or maybe the memos might have been just in their heads (representative of their memories), i never thought about that. But when they were looking at the crater, they definitely weren't real. That actually adds another layer, to say they never actually swapped bodies, they just dreamt of eachother's memories, and by doing so became like the other for a day. That's a bit deeper down the rabbit hole than even i intend to go with it haha. I just wanted to clear up the plot holes people kept accusing the movie of. I'd have to get an opportunity to talk to Shinkai about it all before making any too far-reaching inferences or speculations. |
GenesisAriaAug 12, 2017 4:34 AM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: @Arcos The memos are real, they didn't actually delete from his phone... ...or maybe the memos might have been just in their heads (representative of their memories), i never thought about that. But when they were looking at the crater, they definitely weren't real. That actually adds another layer, to say they never actually swapped bodies, they just dreamt of eachother's memories, and by doing so became like the other for a day. That's a bit deeper down the rabbit hole than even i intend to go with it haha. I just wanted to clear up the plot holes people kept accusing the movie of. I'd have to get an opportunity to talk to Shinkai about it all before making any too far-reaching inferences or speculations. Still thinking that it is not a loop - there are to many indicators that the death of the 500 people really happend. Mitsuha also said that "she saw it with her own eyes" when she was asked if the comet would really split - there is also no indicator that taki dreamt his own life (saying he did is just like saying he is actually in coma and nothing of the movie really happens - it is a excuse with no evidence) other than the disappering of the memos - and much other things disappered as well, so one could say that the force of fate destroys all evidence (like him forgetting the name of her after saying it 3 times - if i revoke a dream in my memory shortly after i awake, i will remember it because i revoked it in a wake state - and that would also be true for taki saying misuha 3 times, forgetting nearly instantly after that is more likly to be a fate force that let him forget). I think even it is not a loop (and imo it isn't - the beginning of the movie just showed the nearly end of the anime and therefore the second timeline) your theory explains the most so called "plot holes" so it is still good. I just don't think it is a perfect loop - many films don't work with loops so one could not just think it is a loop just because it is the most logical approach (Steins Gate Time travel didn't worked with time loops either - maybe the last one did but besides that). The existence of a "fate force" is also realistic in this setting, when supernatural elements are in it anyway. |
ArcosAug 12, 2017 5:02 PM
| @Arcos No supernatural elements are at play, this is science fiction. Steins;Gate time travel is an old fashioned style that's also broken and paradoxical. it's interesting BECAUSE it's paradoxical, but it resides in that limbo zone where quantum mysticism has come up with pseudo-explanations that don't actually mean anything. You aren't listening to anything i said lol. it's all half dream have real. The dreams have real effects on reality, but nobody knew or mentioned the Itomori incident until they were already on the trip investigating it. Granted that's a convenience, but that's the point, it was conveniently avoided so as to not suggest it beforehand. Taki always had the braided thread that Mitsuha gave to him before the comet fell. He wore it the day after the "body switches" every time that i can recall, meaning it may have triggered the switches on the prior day. If mitsuha ever died, she wold never have been able to give that braided thread to Taki in the first place. it wouldn't have magically been there, he remembers someone giving it to him years ago. There is no magical unicorn bs making things go away or change/correct reality, there's no Time Police. The very first scene in the opening of the movie after the intro is that VERY scene (followed by waking up for the first time switched), hence OPENING THE LOOP. Everything in the movie can be explained by the movie without inferring anything that is not mentioned, described, or depicted. That means inexplicable timeline-fixing magic is not necessary. |
GenesisAriaAug 14, 2017 2:16 AM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: If mitsuha ever died, she wold never have been able to give that braided thread to Taki in the first place. it wouldn't have magically been there, he remembers someone giving it to him years ago. There is no magical unicorn bs making things go away or change/correct reality, there's no Time Police. Now you just don't make sense anymore - because she gave the thread to him a day BEFORE the comet would have crushed itomie - why would it be magically "there" if she was still alive at that time? Ofcourse she could have given it to him, even if she died in the first timeline GenesisAria said: Everything in the movie can be explained by the movie without inferring anything that is not mentioned, described, or depicted. That means inexplicable timeline-fixing magic is not necessary. Taki dreaming his own life is never in any way indicated - claiming that is just that, a claim and not a fact - just like the so called "time fixing magic" which is in my opinion still the better option because obviously some "magic" also must have caused the bodyswitch in the first place. |
Arcos said: Nope you're right, that's a hole in my argument, i wasn't thinking.GenesisAria said: Now you just don't make sense anymore - because she gave the thread to him a day BEFORE the comet would have crushed itomie - why would it be magically "there" if she was still alive at that time? Ofcourse she could have given it to him, even if she died in the first timelineIf mitsuha ever died, she wold never have been able to give that braided thread to Taki in the first place. it wouldn't have magically been there, he remembers someone giving it to him years ago. There is no magical unicorn bs making things go away or change/correct reality, there's no Time Police. GenesisAria said: Everything in the movie can be explained by the movie without inferring anything that is not mentioned, described, or depicted. That means inexplicable timeline-fixing magic is not necessary. Taki dreaming his own life is never in any way indicated - claiming that is just that, a claim and not a fact - just like the so called "time fixing magic" which is in my opinion still the better option because obviously some "magic" also must have caused the bodyswitch in the first place. The dreaming thing was implied CONSTANTLY through the movie. The "body switching" was called a dream at every turn it was noticed/discovered. The whole forgetting plot device is BECAUSE of it being a dream, because you experience accelerated forgetting when you awake from a dream. When they were sauntering their way to finding eachother after the whole thing ended, it's again described as them thinking they met in a dream. What i was saying is that the reality in which Mitsuha dies can't be a physical reality, it can only be a virtual reality, else you have to invoke time-fixing magic and break the whole dream thing. The time fixing explanation requires the dream analogy to be just poetic symbolism, and for there to be an invoked inexplicable magic. The dream explanation is realistically plausible and more concise. |
GenesisAriaAug 14, 2017 2:58 AM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: The dreaming thing was implied CONSTANTLY through the movie. The "body switching" was called a dream at every turn it was noticed/discovered. The whole forgetting plot device is BECAUSE of it being a dream, because you experience accelerated forgetting when you awake from a dream. Then you would say that the whole trip to itomie was a dream as well (meaning 1: Taki dreaming his own life and 2: that the trip never happend in reality) - but it sure wasn't because it is even mentioned 5 years later. The forceful forgetting happend to both - Taki and Misuha (who also forget takis name while she was on her way to her father) - and that was for sure not a dream, but if you revoke your memory in a wake state you will sure as hell not forget a simple name like "taki." So how do you explain that other than a mystical force? Or do you say that even the whole town rescue was a dream as well and never happend? Come on, you can do better than that - your opening post proved it. If your theory with the loop however needs some explaination like "it was all a dream but at the same time not really but also a dream" then you might reconsider on this part, because it is not plausible to say it was all a dream and at the same time wasn't. And don't get me wrong, ofcourse maybe the one could have dreamt the experience of the other and vice versa but that doesn't mean it did not also happen in reality. GenesisAria said: What i was saying is that the reality in which Mitsuha dies can't be a physical reality, it can only be a virtual reality, else you have to invoke time-fixing magic and break the whole dream thing. The time fixing explanation requires the dream analogy to be just poetic symbolism, and for there to be an invoked inexplicable magic. The dream explanation is realistically plausible and more concise. But there IS magic in this anime - how would you explain the meeting on the mountain between the two - where one or both of them obviously time traveld for a short time - and please don't say that this was also just a dream of both of them - because mizuha got a physical item in this scene (the thread which she also wears in the last scene of the movie - so it sure as hell wasn't a dream on this mountain). Just please don't deny the magical force of this movie - because it is obvious that it is there. |
Arcos said: I already said it though, forgetting is waking up. You forget once you wake up. The parts with the investigation of the books may never have happened. Or maybe it did and he was filtering it all, again confusing the dream with the reality. As far as the town rescue i can't speak for that because it was cut off at what seemed like a failure, because they were out of time...GenesisAria said: The dreaming thing was implied CONSTANTLY through the movie. The "body switching" was called a dream at every turn it was noticed/discovered. The whole forgetting plot device is BECAUSE of it being a dream, because you experience accelerated forgetting when you awake from a dream. Then you would say that the whole trip to itomie was a dream as well (meaning 1: Taki dreaming his own life and 2: that the trip never happend in reality) - but it sure wasn't because it is even mentioned 5 years later. The forceful forgetting happend to both - Taki and Misuha (who also forget takis name while she was on her way to her father) - and that was for sure not a dream, but if you revoke your memory in a wake state you will sure as hell not forget a simple name like "taki." So how do you explain that other than a mystical force? Or do you say that even the whole town rescue was a dream as well and never happend? Come on, you can do better than that - your opening post proved it. If your theory with the loop however needs some explaination like "it was all a dream but at the same time not really but also a dream" then you might reconsider on this part, because it is not plausible to say it was all a dream and at the same time wasn't. And don't get me wrong, ofcourse maybe the one could have dreamt the experience of the other and vice versa but that doesn't mean it did not also happen in reality. The dream is just the analogy. An astral projection is never 100% vivid, it's unclear or details are lost or confused just like any dream, though it's called an astral projection because it permits observation of things outside the normal realm of observation, say something written facing up atop a tall shelf. It's a dream but not a dream, because it isn't literally a dream but rather it's LIKE a dream. Arcos said: Magic doesn't exist, it's nought but a trick of the mind. They saw eachother in the dream on the crater rim because that would have been the first time they were actually dreaming eachother's lives at the same time, and their paths were crossing, entangling, the point in which the water drop peaked, and the upward momentum meets the downward momentum in a near stand-still for just a moment, like the transition period of the sun with the horizon.GenesisAria said: What i was saying is that the reality in which Mitsuha dies can't be a physical reality, it can only be a virtual reality, else you have to invoke time-fixing magic and break the whole dream thing. The time fixing explanation requires the dream analogy to be just poetic symbolism, and for there to be an invoked inexplicable magic. The dream explanation is realistically plausible and more concise. But there IS magic in this anime - how would you explain the meeting on the mountain between the two - where one or both of them obviously time traveld for a short time - and please don't say that this was also just a dream of both of them - because mizuha got a physical item in this scene (the thread which she also wears in the last scene of the movie - so it sure as hell wasn't a dream on this mountain). Just please don't deny the magical force of this movie - because it is obvious that it is there. Maybe i'm wrong and Shinkai intended it to be a rewrite... but with a little digging it definitely seems like it's not necessary. Sometimes artists can exceed their own intentions. |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| I'd be worried if you need anyone to explain you any underlying meanings from this movie, as it was a spoon-feed fest. Particularly if for one reason or another you happened to go through the experience twice. |
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| @Lordwen It's not underlying meanings, the meanings are generally straight forward (given you know your japanese subjects). People griped about the "not noticing the date" and "the time travel doesn't make sense" etc etc. Here's a video about meaning stuff for whoever wants: |
GenesisAriaAug 14, 2017 12:17 PM
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: By underlying I don't mean hidden meanings either. I'm not a fan of that sort of viewing experience and I do appreciate when you can catch up with most things in a natural way. Of course, leaving aside the exposition some creators are seemingly fond of as if distrusting their audience's capacity to understand things without it. @Lordwen It's not underlying meanings, the meanings are generally straight forward (given you know your japanese subjects). People griped about the "not noticing the date" and "the time travel doesn't make sense" etc etc. Here's a video about meaning stuff for whoever wants: |
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| And there we go again, die-hard fanboys and fangirls defending their favorite anime and looking for excuses for all the plot holes. Most of your arguments are invalid and subjective, this post isn't objectively right. I'm not buying your excuses and many people won't do either. My forum avatar is my answer to any question you have regarding why I don't buy your arguments (if you even care though). You disregard every counter-argument and you're looking for ways to make this overrated movie look like perfection. Don't forget, even Gintama isn't perfect. Everything has flaws. Have a nice day. You're not expert at answering unanswered questions. |
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| @Tarun999 more or less. |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| @Lankard Wherever i looked, i saw Taki wearing the string on his wrist the day after a switch event, even if there's days or weeks in between swaps, he always had it on afterwords, from what i could recall. Like he would look at his phone and be like 'omg' because of whatever Mitsuha wrote, and he'd have the string on his wrist. Thus i proposed the switch happens the day before aka during sleep, as it fits with the dream thing, and everything else. |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| @Lankard Well yes, it is . . . the "miracle" is that their dreams aligned and their consciousnesses synchronized across the time gap (as in, instead of happening while asleep, it happens while awake and at the same time, instead of dreaming about day. In the process of reversal of something, there's always a "focal point" in which the flux hits a zero net change for a short period. The reason why it's the dream, is as it repeatedly showed, you could see that each of them was standing there alone, but they could "see" eachother. |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| This is one of the most deluded and ridiculous threads I've ever read. |
| The only answer you will ever need that answers all questions you may have for this film: A wizard did it. |
| The poor spelling and grammar in the OP just confused me more. |
| Hey my grammar isn't that bad, though i'm a very liberal scribe. I don't recall any spelling errors unless i types the wrong word accidentally a couple times, in which case, feel free to point them out. |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: Brb said: Funny you should mention that, because none of this is relativity at all, and SR/GR are not quite correct anyways, they're approximations which ElectroMagnetic Retardation theory can get more accurate and without reifying space as something that doing things.Relativity isn't my kind of thing, and discussing the hows and whatnot of that is a notch higher, so I'll pass on that one.Plus theoretical spacetime geometries was the last thing I heard of that and that shit boggles me. I mean just look at the working model: time dilation and spatial displacement (or meta since the mind does not take up space) and then you'd have to cover how the backwards travel happened, diverging then converging frames of reality and tons more. Best leave it to fiction mechanics. See the whole time thing here, it cheats, it gets away with it by being a closed loop. It's not actually reverse "time travel" because it's only mind that's traversing, not physical things (in reality, time is determined by the motion and change of physical things, a byproduct), but they do it in such a way that the whole process is like a temporal "quantum entanglement". This one period in time is blown open like a cross-section, and because it's self-contained, it can retrograde as well. Note that quantum entanglement doesn't mean magically connected particles, it refers to observing different parts of the same wave front at different locations. It's really hard to explain, but it's a concept i came up with years ago when i was trying to think of how to justify the whole multiple-clones attack thing like in Blades of Time, as a plausible possibility for the clones attack, by not rewinding, but placing a relative anchor, and then circling around it like a torus converging at the point of singularity, returning to than anchor repeatedly until letting go and returning to normal time. GenesisAria said: If you look at my water drop diagram, i explained that the period in which they are dead is a reflection. a holographic projection by the process of the drop, real, but not actually part of the real timeline. Enough to give the impression that time changed, but didn't, but also allowing that apparent alternate reality to not be magically from nowhere, because it all happens in that gap between the giving of the beaded thread, and the drinking of the kuchikamizake, which is when time was split open and showed all kinds of things - why the memories could switch places etc. When it comes to non-euclidean geometry in optics, you can get all kinds of effects that result in inverse images and other illusions, in which the brain could easily fill in the gaps of interpretation, giving a false conclusion. The irony ofc being that projection of beyond the physical that never happened, seeing that is exactly WHY it never happened. Note that is me explaining in semi-scientific terms something that Shinkai probably just saw intuitively. Maybe that's why Your Name is also a technical masterpiece and Shinkai is a master artist... XD |
TheAceofFuture said: herrokan said: This is one of the most deluded and ridiculous threads I've ever read. Deus said: And there we go again, die-hard fanboys and fangirls defending their favorite anime and looking for excuses for all the plot holes. Most of your arguments are invalid and subjective, this post isn't objectively right. I'm not buying your excuses and many people won't do either. My forum avatar is my answer to any question you have regarding why I don't buy your arguments (if you even care though). You disregard every counter-argument and you're looking for ways to make this overrated movie look like perfection. Don't forget, even Gintama isn't perfect. Everything has flaws. Have a nice day. You're not expert at answering unanswered questions. And we're at it again, ignorant guys viewing a beautiful piece of art as a bs commercial. 😒 Seriously if u don't agree, then tell us what's a better objective explanation to this movie's concepts. Its because of u fools that MAL community suffers from... (even though it have vast diversities of fans from worldwide) Grow up, dude and please learn some manners and wisdom to appreciate others generous contributions to society. 😒 You're reviving a dead thread. I'm not going to waste time on ignorant person who calls me foolish without logical basis and uses cancerous emojis TWICE in ONE comment. I humbly request that you get lost and do not quote my old replies again. |
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TheAceofFuture said: It's not exactly a masterpiece, and i can't say for certain what i discovered was intentional... Shinkai himself said it was incomplete, and i can see what he means.Maybe that's why Your Name is also a technical masterpiece and Shinkai is a master artist... XD @Deus facepalm. a thread with a topic such as this doesn't technically need to die. perhaps a chill pill and a realisation that life is too short to get worked up for pointless reasons. |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. 🔗CosmoGenesis Project “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” “A truth seeker has no patience for BS.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| That's okay buddy. Perfect anime doesn't exist. Kimi no Nawa is still a decent film. |
GenesisAria said: TheAceofFuture said: It's not exactly a masterpiece, and i can't say for certain what i discovered was intentional... Shinkai himself said it was incomplete, and i can see what he means.Maybe that's why Your Name is also a technical masterpiece and Shinkai is a master artist... XD @Deus facepalm. a thread with a topic such as this doesn't technically need to die. perhaps a chill pill and a realisation that life is too short to get worked up for pointless reasons. Nobody cares. Slap your face more, maybe you will realize something yourself. |
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| I gave your wall of text a chance since I rated it 10/10 myself. I'm really amazed and glad to find this article. All in all, I'd say it's neat and readable. |
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