Sound! Euphonium (light novel)
| @VersoSciolto |
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| @SaucyShamrock Just to clarify somethings: I didn't assume it was a platonic confession/relationship. I said the gif is an example of platonic treatment by almost all of the audience just because it was between two girls. Shuichi argument was used to get the het shippers understand what I am/was talking about. Don't you think that they would be celebrating right now if kumiko had used the same words for him disregarding the context? I think kumiko may have meant it platonically or she may have meant it romantically. |
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-Frank- said: @SaucyShamrock Just to clarify somethings: I didn't assume it was a platonic confession/relationship. I said the gif is an example of platonic treatment by almost all of the audience just because it was between two girls. Shuichi argument was used to get the het shippers understand what I am/was talking about. Don't you think that they would be celebrating right now if kumiko had used the same words for him disregarding the context? I think kumiko may have meant it platonically or she may have meant it romantically. Still confused. So you're saying almost everyone assumed that Kumiko didn't mean it romantically? I don't know if that's true. She could have meant it either way, but I personally think there is a more compelling argument to be made for a romantic interest. |
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| Are you serious? I thought it was obvious from context. It's not even about them being same sex. If you watched their relationship throughout the series you can see why she said that and why she broke down like that. If Kumiko had romantic feelings for Asuka it would have been more obvious and shown in plain sight. Stop trying to ship them. lol |
SaucyShamrock said: Still confused. So you're saying almost everyone assumed that Kumiko didn't mean it romantically? I don't know if that's true. She could have meant it either way, but I personally think there is a more compelling argument to be made for a romantic interest. I read people's comments in the episode thread and I know the majority just brushed it off as platonic. VersoSciolto said: Maybe rephrased as: ...almost everyone is more likely to assume that Kumiko didn't mean it romantically, whereas in a similar scene when words like that are spoken between a boy and a girl ...almost everyone is more likely to assume that it was meant romantically.... Also what Verso said above^. Most of the anime viewers just don't see girls as love interest to other girls as compared to how they see boys being love interest to girls. They just don't consider that possibility even after seeing yuri couples in other animes. So I wondered why that is and made this thread to look for their reasons as to why they don't see any substance in such scenes between two girls and take it as just a teaser or a phase. Also to get them to think about it. If Asuka was a male senpai and kumiko had said the same words in the same context then would it still be platonic to you? If yes okay, if not then your reasons for thinking the same. I am not counter arguing I am just curious about your reasons in case it is the latter. This thread is not about shipping the two as OP clarified but why is one romantic and the other platonic? what differs the two in your - general audience eyes? |
HijaziJan 21, 2017 10:55 AM
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| It seems pretty clear that the show has yuri undertones, pretty much from the first few episodes. I don't think scenes like this are for nothing: Asuka is extremely touchy with Kumiko and she often jokes about her love confessions. Reina is also very touchy with Kumiko and Kumiko allows is, seemingly even welcomes it. Sure, Reina, Kumiko, and Asuka aren't exactly typical characters. It could be written off as the unusual part of their personality. But I think that's lame. They're already unusual. Why include those moments; to drive the point home? I mean, people call it "yuri-bait" for a reason. There are clearly yuri moments in it. The question stands as to why and what they mean. You could posit that they're just fanservice, bait, or touches of comedy/weirdness, but I think you could also make a good case that they really do show that there is more than meets the eye. Ask yourself, what does it feel like when Kumiko is so uneasy around Reina? Why does she care? Why does she want to help her? Why does Kumiko hate Asuka, but then turn around to "love" her? I tend to stray away from intentional fallacies, but given that there is so much disagreement on it, I've actually changed my mind and I think this is a failure in writing. The ambiguity of what is happening between these characters is coming from a lack of insight into how they feel. |
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SaucyShamrock said: I tend to stray away from intentional fallacies, but given that there is so much disagreement on it, I've actually changed my mind and I think this is a failure in writing. The ambiguity of what is happening between these characters is coming from a lack of insight into how they feel. I forgot to add that the comments in the last episode thread take that particular farewell scene as platonic and nothing more. I think that this failure in writing is intentional on kyoani's part - you know why. Anime Kumiko may be a legit yuri character but Reina is certainly not (she could be bi but my instincts doubt it) and I don't know about Asuka. |
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-Frank- said: SaucyShamrock said: I tend to stray away from intentional fallacies, but given that there is so much disagreement on it, I've actually changed my mind and I think this is a failure in writing. The ambiguity of what is happening between these characters is coming from a lack of insight into how they feel. I forgot to add that the comments in the last episode thread take that particular farewell scene as platonic and nothing more. I think that this failure in writing is intentional on kyoani's part - you know why. Anime Kumiko may be a legit yuri character but Reina is certainly not (she could be bi but my instincts doubt it) and I don't know about Asuka. The farewell was platonic? Seriously? No way. There was way too much emotion. I'm still not certain about Reina. She does so many confusing things that if she didn't have this immature crush on Taki-sensei, I would say 100% that she's into Kumiko. Either that, or she has a twisted sense of humour to toy with Kumiko like that. However, I do think that Kumiko is in love with Asuka. Short-form, the turnaround she had from disliking her to loving her was way too fast. You'd expect such a reaction from someone who you have been friends with for a long time, or alternatively, someone you've just recently fallen in love with. The emotion is just too intense. I don't remember exactly how many times Kumiko has cried, but it was at least twice with Asuka, and those are couple of the most emotional moments I can recall in the series. |
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SaucyShamrock said: -Frank- said: I forgot to add that the comments in the last episode thread take that particular farewell scene as platonic and nothing more. I think that this failure in writing is intentional on kyoani's part - you know why. Anime Kumiko may be a legit yuri character but Reina is certainly not (she could be bi but my instincts doubt it) and I don't know about Asuka. The farewell was platonic? Seriously? No way. There was way too much emotion. I'm still not certain about Reina. She does so many confusing things that if she didn't have this immature crush on Taki-sensei, I would say 100% that she's into Kumiko. Either that, or she has a twisted sense of humour to toy with Kumiko like that. However, I do think that Kumiko is in love with Asuka. Short-form, the turnaround she had from disliking her to loving her was way too fast. You'd expect such a reaction from someone who you have been friends with for a long time, or alternatively, someone you've just recently fallen in love with. The emotion is just too intense. I don't remember exactly how many times Kumiko has cried, but it was at least twice with Asuka, and those are couple of the most emotional moments I can recall in the series. I think its pushing it to see Kumiko and Asuka as a thing. Asukas arc parallels with Kumikos sisters and Asuka is going through almost the same situation Kumikos sister did. This is part of the reason Kumiko wanted to help. Then Kumiko warmed up to Asuka the most right as she was about to graduate, which is why she was upset and told Asuka her feelings. She felt she wasted a lot of time that could have been spent with her, she was openly stating her regret. The whole spending the first part of the year disliking her statement. It was also clear Asuka was in more of a odd place then before in the show at then end of season 2 due to the emotions she had to deal with between playing for her dad, and putting up with her mom. Thats where most of her new emotions came from not a sudden love for Kumiko. As for Kumiko and Reina, the community always has its yuri goggles on so general consensus does not hold much weight in a discussion like this but I think its clear that Reina and Kumiko could be a thing. You dont have to do much overreaching to see it either. She likes Taki sure, but who cares? Honestly its not a huge part of the show. She had a few moments talking to him and the longest bit of the show focusing on these two was as far as I interrupted it the conclusion to this arc and her feelings for him after visiting his wifes grave. Kumikos narration said she never spoke of him again, nor was her performance any longer affected. Kumiko and Reina being a thing does not mean that in episode 1 of the next season they should be making out, it just means that there is a genuine pathway for them to be together with more storytelling. Which there is most certainly with what they have built between them now. |
Reikuo said: SaucyShamrock said: The farewell was platonic? Seriously? No way. There was way too much emotion. I'm still not certain about Reina. She does so many confusing things that if she didn't have this immature crush on Taki-sensei, I would say 100% that she's into Kumiko. Either that, or she has a twisted sense of humour to toy with Kumiko like that. However, I do think that Kumiko is in love with Asuka. Short-form, the turnaround she had from disliking her to loving her was way too fast. You'd expect such a reaction from someone who you have been friends with for a long time, or alternatively, someone you've just recently fallen in love with. The emotion is just too intense. I don't remember exactly how many times Kumiko has cried, but it was at least twice with Asuka, and those are couple of the most emotional moments I can recall in the series. I think its pushing it to see Kumiko and Asuka as a thing. Asukas arc parallels with Kumikos sisters and Asuka is going through almost the same situation Kumikos sister did. This is part of the reason Kumiko wanted to help. Then Kumiko warmed up to Asuka the most right as she was about to graduate, which is why she was upset and told Asuka her feelings. She felt she wasted a lot of time that could have been spent with her, she was openly stating her regret. The whole spending the first part of the year disliking her statement. It was also clear Asuka was in more of a odd place then before in the show at then end of season 2 due to the emotions she had to deal with between playing for her dad, and putting up with her mom. Thats where most of her new emotions came from not a sudden love for Kumiko. As for Kumiko and Reina, the community always has its yuri goggles on so general consensus does not hold much weight in a discussion like this but I think its clear that Reina and Kumiko could be a thing. You dont have to do much overreaching to see it either. She likes Taki sure, but who cares? Honestly its not a huge part of the show. She had a few moments talking to him and the longest bit of the show focusing on these two was as far as I interrupted it the conclusion to this arc and her feelings for him after visiting his wifes grave. Kumikos narration said she never spoke of him again, nor was her performance any longer affected. Kumiko and Reina being a thing does not mean that in episode 1 of the next season they should be making out, it just means that there is a genuine pathway for them to be together with more storytelling. Which there is most certainly with what they have built between them now. Well, I don't think I've said Kumiko and Asuka are a thing. To me, it seems very possible, but we just don't know what Asuka is thinking most of the time. I'd have to re-watch the show since I didn't catch that strong of a parallel between Kumiko's sister and Asuka, but you could be right. I think there may be something there. Also, Reina's love for Taki-sensei is a big deal. You should care because it's the main driving force behind her ambition. It is why she acts more mature than she should and why she wants to be "special." She wants to prove herself not to other school kids, but to Taki-sensei. It's a major part of the show. I may be getting my details mixed up, but I think Reina still cared a lot after finding out his wife died. She still "confessed" her love to him and I don't know if she ever moved on. |
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Reikuo said: ... How would you see this same farewell scene if asuka was a male? Platonic? Romantic? in between? |
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-Frank- said: Reikuo said: ... How would you see this same farewell scene if asuka was a male? Platonic? Romantic? in between? It would never have happened. They would have used different wording, the same way they would have in real life. |
Reikuo said: It would never have happened. They would have used different wording, the same way they would have in real life. But I meant it with the same wordings and with the same previous interactions as happened in the anime except asuka is now a male. Something like this: I am saying to myself after watching it>"That last farewell scene doesn't strike as romantic (as it should) even when such and such words were used/said. Let us substitute asuka with a male and replay it (with the same kumiko's statements). Hmm . . . it gets romantic now alright.< Now why is that is where I was stuck. ;-; I just want to know where you are coming from in your (platonic or romantic) interpretation of the original farewell and ^this supposed one? |
HijaziJun 21, 2017 4:40 AM
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-Frank- said: About what Kumiko said to Asuka: If the same words were to be said to Shuichi or to a guy, i.e a male recipient, by Kumiko then most of us would have interpreted it as romantic love. I just wanna know your take on these: why the former is platonic to you? why the later is romantic in your eyes? Kumiko clearly comes to see Asuka as a surrogate of her sister. Unless we are saying that Kumiko loves her sister romantically, this ship makes no sense. East Asia has a different culture. Just because it might be interpreted as yuri here doesn't mean it's intended as such. |
Hijazi said: Reikuo said: It would never have happened. They would have used different wording, the same way they would have in real life. But I meant it with the same wordings and with the same previous interactions as happened in the anime except asuka is now a male. Something like this: I am saying to myself after watching it>"That last farewell scene doesn't strike as romantic (as it should) even when such and such words were used/said. Let us substitute asuka with a male and replay it (with the same kumiko's statements). Hmm . . . it gets romantic now alright.< Now why is that is where I was stuck. ;-; I just want to know where you are coming from in your (platonic or romantic) interpretation of the original farewell and ^this supposed one? Take your time. For me its all about what im actually viewing. Sure you could rewrite this scene word for word and use it as the ending to some romantic story of some sort but thats not whats going on here. You have to use context. For example Asuka invited Kumiko over to her house and they hung out in her room, two girls doing that and a guy and a girl doing that are two separate things. This would be a big moment for a guy to be invited into a girls bedroom regardless if anything happened. So just by switching genders your automatically granting something that is nothing major, a girl being invited to another girls house and hanging out in her bedroom, to something quite major. The reason I point that out is because again if you swap the gender and rerun the whole season then the ending, with changes, could be a confession but absolutely nothing was out of the ordinary between two female friends and what happened. Asuka was just not a friend but she was someone Kumiko looked up too, everyone in the class did, but it was more impactful to Kumiko since Asuka played the euphonium. In addition to all that, you would have to completely ignore the Reina situation which by all accounts is much deeper and intimate then anything Kumiko and Asuka had. |
ReikuoApr 21, 2017 8:40 AM
Reikuo said: ... I get your point. So won't persue you anymore xD. You explained with an easy to get scenario. There is not a like button or I would have liked your post. :) But will make just a small comment that if the girl being invited has a crush on the girl inviting then it is something significant (perhaps equivalent to inviting a guy over?) just like kuzu no honkai. I know that is not the case in Hibiki of course. |
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