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| That Kaien and Ichigo look alike was and were probably related was speculated even before the speculations that his mother was a quincy started. It still doesnt make sense that Ichigo had to fight him instead of Hichigo.What was the point of having to beat/subdue your zanpakuto? @Sephirous I dont hink the studio would actually care about the inconsistencies. |
Jim_Heart said: .......really?I knew it that Bleach has one of the most epic plot in manga history ... fuck to people who keep calling Bleach after Aizen VS Final Getsuga Tenshou was only new idea that Kubo got for make this manga longer, Kubo Tite had been scheming all of this from the beginning story please ... Anyway, I quite liked the plot twist this time around. |
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| Way to Kubo, that was actually an awesome plot twist! Looks like he's been taking lessons from M. Night Shamamalama-kun |
| i think that when Kubo began bleach he must've wrote the ending down on paper and then started writing/drawing the first chapter. also, allot of people saw it coming but it was still epic to see it on page And it now makes sense why SS tried to kill the Quincy after what Juha did in his teens. I mean just look at him, no wonder SS raged...he stole ALL their women ffs |
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ssjokg said: It still doesnt make sense that Ichigo had to fight him instead of Hichigo.What was the point of having to beat/subdue your zanpakuto? Because Whitey back then was....well....evil and wanted to eat Ichigo. Old Man Bach might be representation of Bach, but he is still part of who Ichigo is, part of his power and he clearly expressed a wish to protect Ichigo. Old Man Bach IS representation of Quincy Powers, but he is not "evil", per say, he has just been taking role of Zangetsu, till Ichigo is ready to face the real Zangetsu, who was far more intent on just eating Ichigo alive than teaching him. Since Humans, pluses are the opposites of Hollows, Ichigo's quincy side was exactly what was protecting him from White devouring him. But in the end both Old Man and White were part of the whole that is Ichigo. This just simply means that White, since Ichigo managed to subdue him and balance him out before, will be taking the role of Zangetsu, while Old Man Bach will be taking a role of quincy powers, showcasing Ichigo how to use quincy powers and at the same time giving insight into Juuha Bach's own past and nature. |
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Sephirous said: if zangetsu isn't the true form of his zanpakuto , then why the hell did ichigo had to fight him to get the bankai ? and why couldn't he use bankai when zangetsu was released from him by muramasa .... and now ichigo has quincy, fullbring ,soul reaper and hollow powers and yet his quincy power is the one in charge.. damn it now we have to wait till next chapter to hear the story from zangetsu. This! Yeah, what the frak? And also, old man Zangetsu appeared for Ichigo during the fight against Kenpachi, and Yoruichi stated that when you see your Zanpakutou ouside your inner world, than you are ready for the bankai. So, if the old man is the quincy power, why did he appear for the bankai training? Kubo, I get the feeling you screwed up something. Okay, stay calm, maybe something about this will be revealed, like some other inconsistencies, I will jsut have to wait for it. BTW, everyone freaks out about old man Zangetsu's true colors, but what about the other plot twist? The hollow, that bit Ichigo's mother was "artificially made from piling up shinigami souls", the same way this smith guy make Asauchis. And makes Zanpakutou for shinigami. So......... The Zanpakutou, the shinigamis' weapon, the sword is made from a hollow made from shinigami souls? Eeek! That's sick! |
| Boring start, good end. |
SasAlexander said: Sephirous said: if zangetsu isn't the true form of his zanpakuto , then why the hell did ichigo had to fight him to get the bankai ? and why couldn't he use bankai when zangetsu was released from him by muramasa .... and now ichigo has quincy, fullbring ,soul reaper and hollow powers and yet his quincy power is the one in charge.. damn it now we have to wait till next chapter to hear the story from zangetsu. This! Yeah, what the frak? And also, old man Zangetsu appeared for Ichigo during the fight against Kenpachi, and Yoruichi stated that when you see your Zanpakutou ouside your inner world, than you are ready for the bankai. So, if the old man is the quincy power, why did he appear for the bankai training? Kubo, I get the feeling you screwed up something. Okay, stay calm, maybe something about this will be revealed, like some other inconsistencies, I will jsut have to wait for it. BTW, everyone freaks out about old man Zangetsu's true colors, but what about the other plot twist? The hollow, that bit Ichigo's mother was "artificially made from piling up shinigami souls", the same way this smith guy make Asauchis. And makes Zanpakutou for shinigami. So......... The Zanpakutou, the shinigamis' weapon, the sword is made from a hollow made from shinigami souls? Eeek! That's sick! While not real "Zangetsu", Old Man is still manifestation of Ichigo's power. The thing is , Ichigo's power can't be defined as' "shinigami" or as a "zanpakuto". Its a mix and match of shinigami, hollow and quincy stuff. Since whole arcs before showcased that Ichigo's power is a whole composed of smaller parts that need to be balanced, its simply one facet of Ichigo's power teaching Ichigo to use the other. Its still part of who Ichigo is. as for asauchi part - wrong. We don't know HOW Nimaya makes them exactly, but simply Aizen was trying to replicate it, it seems, for whatever reason, which kind of makes sense since he wanted to create Kings Key, a royal guard and that's all in powers and who you are. And he succeeded on with Ichigo. Also there's a strong implication that Aizen was aware of Bach's existence and counted Bach as an enemy too, considering WHEN he started his experiments. I foresee Ichigo getting Aizen's help in near future when they need to face Bach(and soul king afterward, most likely, as we still do not know what led to the whole quincy/shinigami war as there's strong implication that what we know is nothing more but a propaganda by "victors" of the said war, as both sides had their own reasons to do it) |
AhenshihaelJun 5, 2013 6:16 AM
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| I have a feeling those guards are somehow linked to Ichigo's powers considering the one looks like the final getsuga tenshou |
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| After reading the Mangastream translation everything makes more sense now lol. |
NJZanDatsu said: After reading the Mangastream translation everything makes more sense now lol. ^Holy shit, yeah! It actually makes a lot more sense now with Mangastream's translation. So his actual zanpakutou is is his hollow while Juha Bach was actually his quincy powers. Well my mind is blown. I'm now curious with the connection between Zangetsu and Engetsu... |
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| Can't believe this was so thought out! Kubo is delivering hard this last arc, can't wait til the next chapter o:! |
| potato. |
Adviel said: this actually makes sense good one Kubo sunn-amps said: Glad to see the connection wasn't just coincidence. Better than last weeks chapter. And loads of people already thought Zangetsu looked like Bach or w/e, so it's not that big a surprise. Dat chibi Ichigo and hollow ichigo <3 |
"Wait for the signal, and I'll meet you after dark" |
| So it turned out a bunch of people mentioning the similarity in look between Yhwach and Zangetsu turned out to be right. I(and probably others too) also was right in guessing Zangetsu was manifested or at least helped along by the Quincy powers Ichigo never knew he had and that the new Asauchi would be his real sword. I like the way this is going! Naruto is turning into a piece of shit but I'm glad Bleach is still rockin'! |
to those thinking this is asspull: Old Man teaching Ichigo what's essentially a reishi manipulation as early as chapter 69. Of course shinigami do the same, but the way Zangetsu is shown doing it is very reminiscent of quincies moreso than SHinigami. |
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| Hmm. Looks cool i guess. |
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Scheherazade1007 said: j0x said: Hawaiian420 said: If you guys think this is some super plot twist, and didn't see this coming when we first saw Juha, then you really don't pay attention much when you read manga. agreed!!! Kubo's character design look the same for a lot of character. It's like saying Masaki is related to Matsumoto with no other basis than them looking alike. It's not about 'not paying attention', it's that we can't base a character relation on them look similar anymore. When it's stated that they look similar it's one thing, when you only assume they are looking similar through Kubo's drawing style, it's another. Up to now, there was no set relation between Zangetsu and Bach so this was still a wild guess and acting like it was obvious is pretty much retarded. not really. theres a huge difference between characters like masaki and matsumoto's faces looking similar when theres no hints of foreshadowing or significant story around them, and characters like zangetsu(young juha bach) and juha bach.. there's no way there was going to be no relation between them based on looks. if it was left like that with no explanation, it would be hilarious. |
| "Yo dude, the guy you've been chillin all that time was the final boss all along." "... What." "No, you see, Zangetsu kinda resembles the Quincy King, therefore they are the same person." Was Kubo's intent to make me laugh my ass off with this "twist"? Cause if it was, then he fucking succeded. |
Arashi89Aug 25, 2018 1:33 PM
| PLOT HOLES EVERYWHERE FUCKING EVERYWHERE |
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| I laughed out loud for a straight 5mins after I read about the Ywach/Zangetsu plot-twist. Although, I still don't understand it anything. the actual F is happening. Is zangetsu bad or good? I'd rather sleep for a week than wait, what a cliffhanger. |
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| So, the asauchis are created from dead shinigamis, I wonder how the soul society can accept this. If the old man is the Ichigo's powers of Quincy, why did he fight him to learn his bankaï ? But I understand why Ichigo's hollow becomes strong as soon as his powers of shinigami grow up. |
| You can try to rationalize it all you want but the truth of the matter is old man "zangetsu" WAS ichigo's zanpakuto spirit throughout this entire manga up until this recent arc when kubo decided to change his character. He taught ichigo shikai. He synced up with ichigo to defeat kenpachi. He manifested during his bankai training. And again in a younger form while learning final getsuga. "White" however has done nothing but act like how all other inner hollows were said to, trying to take over as the lead consciousness. What makes it even more frustrating is that ichigo's quincy blood was supposed to be completely dormant throughout this story, but yet Old man "zangetsu" was there at the forefront within ichigo's soul since day 1... Whatever, It's kubo's story and he's free to do what he wants with his characters i guess. He can make Don Kanoji the spirit king in the next chapter if he wanted to and we would all just have to run with it lol. |
kizu-kunJun 5, 2013 8:36 AM
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| Wow I knew for a long time that was coming since Zangetsu looked so much like Juha Bach. But I didn't expect Zangetsu to be his Quincy power. |
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| Zangetsu are Ichigo's Quincy powers... okay. Why the hell did he pretend to be his shinigami powers? I'm guessing he somehow over-powered Ichigo's true shinigami powers, the inner hollow, and made those abilities look like his own... but WHY?!?! Why not just tell Ichigo the truth, "you're a Quincy... here's your traditional white military uniform... throw away those black rags... I'm gonna teach you something called blut now". It's not like he needed to trick Urahara or Yoruichi or Isshin into teaching him shinigami-stuff too, they probably already knew about him... I think. Damnit, does this mean Zangetsu is still inside of him, hiding from the hail of questions that are about to come... ready to give Ichigo his Quincy power-up... a few years too late? Why didn't Zangetsu reveal this earlier? |
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GirlScoutCookies said: PLOT HOLES EVERYWHERE FUCKING EVERYWHERE ^This. |
If your stomach feels weak then my work here is done.  |
kizu-kun said: You can try to rationalize it all you want but the truth of the matter is old man "zangetsu" WAS ichigo's zanpakuto spirit throughout this entire manga up until this recent arc when kubo decided to change his character. He taught ichigo shikai. He synced up with ichigo to defeat kenpachi. He manifested during his bankai training. And again in a younger form while learning final getsuga. "White" however has done nothing but act like how all other inner hollows were said to, trying to take over as the lead consciousness. What makes it even more frustrating is that ichigo's quincy blood was supposed to be completely dormant throughout this story, but yet Old man "zangetsu" was there at the forefront within ichigo's soul since day 1... Whatever, It's kubo's story and he's free to do what he wants with his characters i guess. He can make Don Kanoji the spirit king in the next chapter if he wanted to and we would all just have to run with it lol. Well he did throw hints at us. And he was never able to use much power because his powers were sealed. |
| A little joke who is this guy on the picture ? http://www.mangareader.net/94-54486-11/bleach/chapter-409.html kizu-kun said: You can try to rationalize it all you want but the truth of the matter is old man "zangetsu" WAS ichigo's zanpakuto spirit throughout this entire manga up until this recent arc when kubo decided to change his character. He taught ichigo shikai. He synced up with ichigo to defeat kenpachi. He manifested during his bankai training. And again in a younger form while learning final getsuga. "White" however has done nothing but act like how all other inner hollows were said to, trying to take over as the lead consciousness. What makes it even more frustrating is that ichigo's quincy blood was supposed to be completely dormant throughout this story, but yet Old man "zangetsu" was there at the forefront within ichigo's soul since day 1... Whatever, It's kubo's story and he's free to do what he wants with his characters i guess. He can make Don Kanoji the spirit king in the next chapter if he wanted to and we would all just have to run with it lol. In the last chapter Nimaiya Oetsu said the hollow inside Ichigo's soul is his zanpakuto. Maybe thanks to his powers of quincy Ichigo succeeded to materialise, his zanpakuto (the hollow) in a shape of sword like Juha Bach did against Yamamoto. (chapter 510) http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/510/16 Zangetsu didn't teach Ichigo his shikaï, he only said his name and Ichigo invoked it, that's all. |
| Right... Zangetsu - Ichigo's zanpakuto throughout the series so far but not the "true" one Zangetsu is the representation of Ichigo's quincy lineage The sword ichigo has been using now is still a zanpakuto so why cant Zangetsu teach him the shikai and bankai? As long as its a zanpakuto, there will be a shikai and bankai. Just because it aint the true one doesnt mean his psuedo one cant be used like others :L |
| . . . Mind = Blown Unlike Naruto that is getting bad every chapter.. |
amenboy972 said: ^We have go with this explanation NOW, but my point was that prior to this arc old man zangetsu's character was the zanpakuto spirit and nothing else, but the author has apparently decided to change that fact. There was no foreshadowing that zangestu was something other than ichigo's zanpakuto, which leads me to believe that this change in character was not planned back then. A little joke who is this guy on the picture ? http://www.mangareader.net/94-54486-11/bleach/chapter-409.html kizu-kun said: You can try to rationalize it all you want but the truth of the matter is old man "zangetsu" WAS ichigo's zanpakuto spirit throughout this entire manga up until this recent arc when kubo decided to change his character. He taught ichigo shikai. He synced up with ichigo to defeat kenpachi. He manifested during his bankai training. And again in a younger form while learning final getsuga. "White" however has done nothing but act like how all other inner hollows were said to, trying to take over as the lead consciousness. What makes it even more frustrating is that ichigo's quincy blood was supposed to be completely dormant throughout this story, but yet Old man "zangetsu" was there at the forefront within ichigo's soul since day 1... Whatever, It's kubo's story and he's free to do what he wants with his characters i guess. He can make Don Kanoji the spirit king in the next chapter if he wanted to and we would all just have to run with it lol. In the last chapter Nimaiya Oetsu said the hollow inside Ichigo's soul is his zanpakuto. Maybe thanks to his powers of quincy Ichigo succeeded to materialise, his zanpakuto (the hollow) in a shape of sword like Juha Bach did against Yamamoto. (chapter 510) http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/510/16 Zangetsu didn't teach Ichigo his shikaï, he only said his name and Ichigo invoked it, that's all. |
kizu-kunJun 5, 2013 10:25 AM
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| I am actually intrigued by this revelation, good job Kubo. Naruto this week was just random power ups and just a feel good chapter. Why is it weird that Ichigo looks like Kaien? During his father's flashback it was revealed that Isshin is a Shiba, meaning Ichigo and Kaien are relatives. Isn't it normal for relatives to look like each other? As for Ichigo battling the old man, during the numerous cut scenes of his inner world it was shown that the old man absorbed Shirosaki into him, so technically Ichigo was still fighting Zangetsu the sword. The only thing I was puzzled about was Ichigo shown no signs of Quincy powers until this arc, if his Quincy power (the old man) was that dominant you would expect the Quincy powers to leak out multiple times. From this chapter, from the forging scene the blade looked white and how the swordsmith talked about the Asauchi being white is it possible that Ichigo's new sword would be pure white like Rukia's sword? If that's the case that would be a big change. |
DestinyFateJun 5, 2013 10:15 AM
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| Question. If this Zangetsu isn't Ichigo's real zanpakuto spirit, does his bankai look similar to what Zangetsu is wearing. Also, why did Ichigo's real zanpakuto spirit decide to let an impostor take his place? And even say that he (the real spirit) didn't have a name and play the role of Ichigo's hollow form. For anyone who says that the real spirit is just a hollow form THEN who IS Ichigo's real spirit? From the beginning Zangetsu has been with Ichigo from the start teaching him shikai and bankai. For starters: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v13/c113/9.html This indicates that Ichigo was using Zangetsu power the whole time. When Ichigo was learning his bankai through Yoruichi, the fake is the one that manifested to fight Ichigo not the hollow/real spirit. (And I use real spirit very loosely since we don't even know what his role is now or if that even is his real zanpakuto spirit.) In this training to get his bankai, shouldn't his "real" zanpakuto spirit manifested and not this fake? Ichigo's hollow side is undoubtedly from the hollow that Aizen created that bit Misaki then exploded and fused with her. So where is Ichigo's real spirit? |
If your stomach feels weak then my work here is done. |
 If that was Bach's younger form, then what's tensa zangetsu? (baby form? lol) Anyway, can't wait for chan-Ichi's new sword. More like, I want to see his hollow form talking again. |
| Also, Don Kanonji for spirit king! |
If your stomach feels weak then my work here is done. |
DestinyFate said: Which unlike Bleach didnt just create "plot twists" that had no foreshadowing or werent speculated by readers.I am actually intrigued by this revelation, good job Kubo. Naruto this week was just random power ups and just a feel good chapter. Why is it weird that Ichigo looks like Kaien? During his father's flashback it was revealed that Isshin is a Shiba, meaning Ichigo and Kaien are relatives. Isn't normal for relatives to look like each other? Nobody said that it is weird(I am referring to the 2 posts that I know that mentioned Kaien.) |
| This is not a plot twist. There's a reason why Juha and Zangetsu looked alike. |
| kubo is kuboing is again |
ssjokg said: DestinyFate said: Which unlike Bleach didnt just create "plot twists" that had no foreshadowing or werent speculated by readers.I am actually intrigued by this revelation, good job Kubo. Naruto this week was just random power ups and just a feel good chapter. Why is it weird that Ichigo looks like Kaien? During his father's flashback it was revealed that Isshin is a Shiba, meaning Ichigo and Kaien are relatives. Isn't normal for relatives to look like each other? Nobody said that it is weird(I am referring to the 2 posts that I know that mentioned Kaien.) My bad, I guess I worded it wrongly. They were talking about the character designs have no indication to the plot or something like that, but by revealing that Isshin is a Shiba should explain why they look alike. If anything it was a foreshadowing that Ichigo could be related to the Shiba? |
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PandaAssassin said: As for why Ichigo could only use Quincy powers till after he broke Kirge's cage... is a different matter... Number of Shinigami Ichigo fought before this: gazillion. Number of Hollows Ichigo fought before this: gazillion. Number of Quincies Ichigo fought before this: really zero jaggered-grimjow said: GirlScoutCookies said: PLOT HOLES EVERYWHERE FUCKING EVERYWHERE ^This. harr harrr, let's speak in terms we do not understand, we so smart Bleach has yet to have a "plothole". kizu-kun said: You can try to rationalize it all you want but the truth of the matter is old man "zangetsu" WAS ichigo's zanpakuto spirit throughout this entire manga up until this recent arc when kubo decided to change his character. Except there's nothing in the manga that goes against this twist, and MULTIPLE scenes that fit in foreshadowing this. Multiple characters said that something is OFF with Ichigo's powers and bankai. Ichigo's fighting style IS pretty much throwing arrows at people instead of shooting them. Shirosaki refered to himself as TRUE Zangetsu multiple times calling the Old Man a fake. Both Tesai and Urahara had a horrible reaction to Ichigo's training. The first "Old Man Zangetsu" did when meeting Ichigo was teaching him reishi manipulation. Why would Shirosaki use the sword's main ability first before even Ichigo and why would "Old MAn Zangetsu" never do those things? Ichigo's FGT is pretty much identical to leitz stilt. kizu-kun said: He taught ichigo shikai. He synced up with ichigo to defeat kenpachi. He manifested during his bankai training. And again in a younger form while learning final getsuga. "White" however has done nothing but act like how all other inner hollows were said to, trying to take over as the lead consciousness. What makes it even more frustrating is that ichigo's quincy blood was supposed to be completely dormant throughout this story, but yet Old man "zangetsu" was there at the forefront within ichigo's soul since day 1... And yes representation of Ichigo's power taught him how to use his powers. and? One part of his power took the role of a teacher during the time when the other part was kind of evil. hungry_bunny said: Damnit, does this mean Zangetsu is still inside of him, hiding from the hail of questions that are about to come... ready to give Ichigo his Quincy power-up... a few years too late? Why didn't Zangetsu reveal this earlier? Simple - Beucase Ichigo did NOT KNOW, Zangetsu could not either - Remember how the first time Old Man says his name, it comes out as garbled static? ssjokg said: Which unlike Bleach didnt just create "plot twists" that had no foreshadowing or wer I am sorry, man, but stop. Aspulls is the only thing Narutoe has ever done since I don't know then, since LOLZOMBIES? Earlier? actually earlier considering every storyline with Saucegay had those. Bleach at least makes sense and doe snot make you want to pull your own eyes out. |
AhenshihaelJun 5, 2013 10:27 AM
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| Explains the resemblance but I'm still a little confused. Kudos Kubo, I guess. |
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