| Sucks for them. But maybe if the quality of 90% anime wasnt so shit and generic people would buy it. I bought the rebuild of evangelion movies in Bly ray because they weren't over priced and had flawless animation. |
| tfw no gf tfw i keep getting the banhammer on here tfw Koleare keeps banning me every other day tfw I'm misunderstood by le mod |
| some good news anime streaming subscription (Neon Alley and Crunchyroll) will come to PS3 soon -> http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/64718-anime-streaming-services-coming-to-ps3 although its not a japanese initiative though, americans maximizes the potential of internet for profit again, but still good news that anime can gain more profit from this move |
| Thanks for posting this, it's really a sad state of affairs and I personally am extremely appreciative to the grunts who keep the train moving and provide us with anime despite not getting much in return. About pirating, it's nowhere near as bad as it's been made out to be. They're a metric freakin' ton of downloaders who DO buy anime AFTER they have already seen it (ITS CALLED EXPOSURE!) so they know they aren't wasting their hard earned money on something they might not even like at all. The simple fact is times are tough, everywhere. I'd also like to add, not everyone is fortunate enough to even be able to physically work to afford anime. What about those of us who are disabled and literally would have no way to watch anime if they were forced to buy everything. Just bringing it up because I bet most people don't even consider things like that, I happen to be disabled and pirating improves my quality of life in a big way. I do still make an effort to buy 2-3 series a year, but that's my limit. But basically that's just my sob story a lot of people are in similar situations. What I'm really saying here is downloading is perfectly fine thing to do ethically as long as you do contribute when you can safely afford to do so. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| The guilt is driving me to go get a Crunchyroll subscription now... |
| Harems don't exist in America. If one guy is constantly surrounded by beautiful girls, then he's probably the gay friend. |
| Well... This has certainly made my decision to import the six LE Air DVDs much easier. In all honesty, most of the points I would have brought up have already been made so I won't repeat them. I tend to use torrenting as my 'Television' (ie. watch them once to see if I like them), then I buy my favourites on DVD/Bluray. Or in the case of my favourite, import any limited edition extras I can get my hands on :3 I think if those who pirated exclusively started to get interested in having a physical collection of their favourites we'd get the best of both worlds. Piracy would still exist, but in turn that would help exposure and at the same time people would be buying their favourites. Great thread by the way; I went and read through every post. |
| Well, damn. Sucks to be working for them, then. I don't see how piracy affects working conditions, but I do see how it affects the shows they make. The fanatics always buy the ecchi moeblob, while the rest either don't care or just download illegal copies. Thus, the TV air waves are saturated with such. If they're gonna die, they're gonna die. If they're slaving away making lame shit for people who have no social skills instead of making awesome shit that everyone wants to buy, then they might as well give it a rest and move on to something else. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
| tx for sharing. not even sure what to say. its like a minefield. |
| It's their fault because hey have lousy marketing and selling models. Piracy or whatever isn't their problem. Incompetence and close mindedness is. Maybe they should close so more broad minded companies take their place. They try to sell their shit to a small market first of all, they don't even try to utilize the quality and uniqueness of their protract and sell it around the world. Not only that but they don't even want others to be bothering with their works. Idiots. But to make things worse they don't even try to expand their base of customers inside their own country or trying to change some bad conceptions. This companies have problems because they are run by close-minded fools with little ability and ideas. Is nothing more than bad management and companies with bad management close. Let them close, nothing will be destroyed. Anime will never stop because it's a medium of art, there will always be someone making them. New smarted and better folks may end-up taking their place who know how to sell their products and utilize the new age. |
| 1. The studios should be more open to net and the legal sites (at least the big ones and especially in Japan, but Funi and CR aren't off the hook either) cut the region lock, this a global market and 2013, we should be allowed to legally stream raws at least 5 years ago if even that. Don't want foreign piracy, let the foreigners stream raws. Same thing for CR, let more countries be able to stream legally. 2. Prices for anime in Japan are too high, If they were 40-45 US/vol, I would be able to buy twice as much, just imagine their wallets when I imported 4-6 anime a season instead of just 1-3. 3. Expand your customer base in Japan, if you had more customers, you have more sales and more sales can cut the prices in half. Also, don't just advertise your anime to just the hardcore fan, get the casuals engaged as well, think of how K-ON fared, it fared well because it got all types of fans interested. |
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| Thanks for sharing, really liked the read. Puts some things in perspective, but not everything was a big shock really. |
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| Thanks for translating. Interesting stuff. I will admit that I do pirate anime. But only if the series I want is either unlicensed (so I can't buy it subbed) or if I'm not sure about the series. Even then if it's a series I really love I'll buy it after pirating (like with Zero no Tsukaima. Which was really damn expensive...) But yeah, this is all really shitty. That people don't take their work seriously at all, and that the companies can't afford to pay them enough to support their families is insanity. They need some sort of plan to stablize the industry. |
Shuhan said: Makes me feel bad about torrenting, but not enough to stop. |
| Hmm...the next time I get into some more money I will spend it on anime dvds! >:O |
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| I don't think Japanese animation industries are shrinking because of the Western piracy. There were barely or no markets for anime in the Western world since early year 2000s because almost all Western anime fans prefer downloading fan-subs rather than actually buying them from licensing companies. Yes. I'm talking about "digital piracy" which is in fact ridiculously high in the "internet advanced" nations like US and Europe. Which is far more prevalent than countries like China famous for their traditional "bootleg piracy". Japanese media industry in general is always supported by its own people. This is just like how most Japanese prefer to purchase PS3 rather than Xbox360. I wonder the reason why anime in declining is it because Japanese had lost interests for their own stuff? |
nekovisionFeb 9, 2013 8:20 PM
| that sucks for the anime developers |
| RRRRRRRRRR |
ibrahim2712 said: So he's making $300,000 dollars a year and he's complaining...?? It's actually closer to $30,000. Not a bad salary, but to support a family of four on that while havig to worry about the potential of losing your work at any moment, I can see where the disdain comes from. |
Ghost-Lightning said: It's actually closer to $30,000. Not a bad salary, but to support a family of four on that while havig to worry about the potential of losing your work at any moment, I can see where the disdain comes from. Oh oops thats my fault, I put in 3,000,000 divided by 9 instead of 90, if that's the case then shit that's very very little.... |
| Not trying to target you specifically, but what you wrote her pretty much summed up the consensus I'm seeing in this thread and was the most concise as well, so here goes: Hoppy said: 1. The studios should be more open to net and the legal sites (at least the big ones and especially in Japan, but Funi and CR aren't off the hook either) I'm not 100% sure what you're going for here, but if you're saying that Japanese companies need to rely on streaming more (like how Crunchyroll and Funimation have their own little streaming services), then we're ignoring a bigger picture. A big chunk of anime revenue comes from sponsorship from the stations they air on (the anime airs during some otherwise shitty time slot, and the anime gets a time to air...a win-win of sorts). Allowing for streaming (and note that I'm talking about within Japan for the Japanese viewership) seems like it'll remove some of the exclusivity of watching it on TV since no one will have to stay up till "otaku o'clock" to catch their animu and consequently, a smaller sponsorship award (since less people will be inclined to watch on that channel anymore). But the biggest problem is this: remember that, even in Japan, the otaku fanbase is pretty small, so even if they did stream online, people could expect outrageously high prices (at least, as far as streaming subscription fees go) since it'd still pretty much be the otaku folk that use that type of service. At least with a physical distribution method, there's more of an incentive to buy at a higher prices since you have a physical boxset (with all the extras they tend to come with). All the same, I do agree that Japan should slowly adapt to an ever growing technological and online world, it just isn't as easy and smart a transition as some tend to think it is. And Crunchyroll and Funimation try their best, I'd say. To even get a show legally, the streaming company has to pay a license fee for the show. If they don't think that a show will be very popular (based on past license acquisitions, etc.), they won't buy it. It's just smart economics. Indeed, I wish they could have every show out there, but they wouldn't survive as a business like that. cut the region lock, this a global market and 2013, we should be allowed to legally stream raws at least 5 years ago if even that. Don't want foreign piracy, let the foreigners stream raws. Same thing for CR, let more countries be able to stream legally. Region locking is indeed a dated concept, but it has its purpose (at least for Japan). As we all know, 99% of American releases have a Japanese (and possibly English track), but are sold at an infinitely lower price than in Japan. So imagine the havoc if the Japanese otaku simply bought their anime for virtually nothing and shipped it to Japan? That'd destroy the entire market concept they have going! Thus, the need for region locking. With that said, I do think that companies are losing a lot when they region lock Europeans and the like from being able to buy anime. That's a pretty big base there. As far as streaming raws, I'm not sure why you think that's a given. For instance, I can't stream my local over-the-air Fox Channel or ABC channel or UPN over the net, so why should it be any different for Japan? I think that would tie back into the Japanese TV stations wanting viewers watching it during airtime (for the ads and viewership count) more than just for the fans that'll probably not even buy it anyway. And I always hate it when people make the statement about Crunchyroll making shows available to more places. When a company buys a license, they get a license for a particular region. So when Crunchyroll buys the license to a show (let's say, Toradora), they have to pay some fee for every region they release it too. The fee will vary dfepending on the show, but imagine this situation: Crunchyroll has 50 subscribers from Mali who each pay $7.95 per month for a subscription. But the fee to be able to legally stream it to the Mali folks is $2,000. Do you see the discrepancy there? So much money would be lost that it isn't worth the investment. Indeed, it's unfair to those who live in more "remote" or less anime popular (i.e. outside the U.S.), but that's just the way the business works. It's not like Crunchyroll takes a big map and says "hehe, what countries are we going to exclude this time?! HAHAHA!!!" 2. Prices for anime in Japan are too high, If they were 40-45 US/vol, I would be able to buy twice as much, just imagine their wallets when I imported 4-6 anime a season instead of just 1-3. No one expects you to buy the anime from Japan. Unless you really want to import (or if the series is unavailable where you live), then you can but still. For the reasons already stated (niche audience, few buyers, high production costs, low demand), the prices must remain high. But in the states, you can buy cheap anime from Funmation for like $20 bucks for an entire season both dubbed and subbed or you can throw in a bit more for Sentai, Aniplex, or NIS premium releases (I just bough the premium AnoHana set from NIS for like $52 and it comes with this cute book and case and it was totally worth the cost). 3. Expand your customer base in Japan, if you had more customers, you have more sales and more sales can cut the prices in half. Also, don't just advertise your anime to just the hardcore fan, get the casuals engaged as well, think of how K-ON fared, it fared well because it got all types of fans interested. I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't know if anime could be more advertised to the masses than it is in Japan. Anime promos (and not the ecchi or weird ones) air all the time and you see little promotions on the streets and in stores every so often (no, I'm not talking Akihabara level promos). Also, probably even more so than in the West, people in Japan see otaku and their beloved anime as something of a stinch to their culture. So for a lot of people, it seems they already want to stay away from that culture as much as they can. |
AndyRayyFeb 9, 2013 10:33 PM
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| Read this a while back it is sad. I try and buy when I can, but most of the time I can't even afford what Funi and Sentai asks for unfortunely. I probably won't be able to import for a long time too and when that time comes it will probably only be for Gundam, Code Geass, and any other mech show from Sunrise that comes with subs on the blu-rays. xD |
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character lol! xD" |
| The funny thing is, they were actually ranting about it in their works. Like the one in Kiddy Girl-and; when Di-air amazed when seeing the sunshine for the first time "What are you? someone working in the animation industry?" The irony is, most people enjoying their work would pass that as a joke. |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
| it was a long read but it was honestly worth it...even before reading this I did buy my anime n manga the ones I loved the most. I don't get ppl who just don't buy atleast there most fav animes n then just say I am a fan of this series its just ridiculous..i will never forget the VA who did Kurama from yu yu hakusho came to my con and she gets pd so little to voice act like 500 a month is crazy. but all in all even if the industry was doin amazing ppl should still keep purchasing the animes they love its not just the right thing to do but the noble thing to do |
| Anime/Manga Gives Heart To The World <3 http://www.youtube.com/user/lust4lyfe101 |
| great read,pretty sad yet people don't care they will continue with their piracy anyway the guy is complaining a little too much,no work place is perfect there will always be weird people and stresfull days get used to it |
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| This was an interesting read, but I have to say that the situation is by no means unique to anime industry. At least in Europe we're still in recession, and most companies are living very lean times. Imo, no one whose job isn't entirely secure is in the mood to throw very much money into anything that doesn't ultimately benefit them. The quote the OP posted described the situation from the writer's perspective nicely, but I was left wondering why anyone would post such a thing without thinking up possible solutions to the issues the industry is having. Seriously, the world is changing, and the ones that will survive the tough years are those who are willing to change with it. The way I see it, the reliance on dvd/bd sales is the thing the industry will need to abandon. Digital copies that don't clutter your home are the way forward imo, and the longer the industry hesitates on embracing digital streaming, bying, rental services etc., the further into the swamp it'll sink. The above is from the perspective of someone who has never lived in Japan, so I don't know if Japanese anime fans are into digital as much as people around here, but globally digital is a much better option than importing physical goods. Crunchy and Funi are on the right track, I just hope one day I'll be able to buy subbed anime digitally from the studios that made them. I can dream, right :P |
| ...Wow. I just had to necro this after reading that entire post. It was amazing. It was honest. Now I feel all the more better than I have a CrunchyRoll subscription. My paltry amount given per month probably amounts to little, but it's the sum of all those paltry amounts that make CrunchyRoll the anime streaming site it is today. I think the depressing part, however, is that I also pirate my anime. I could throw some excuses like "since it isn't aimed for america, I'm not actually hurting the industry," but honestly I feel like that argument is pretty shit now. I'm getting free entertainment; entertainment that cost the souls of entire production teams to make. I have no say in the matter whether there's "too much moe, battle shounens are all the same, why can't they do this, etc." Obviously piracy isn't going to stop. Free-flow of information is one of the defining attributes of the Internet. But for crap's sake, when/if you have the money, at least buy a copy of your favorite anime someday. Until then, keep pirating I suppose. But pirate with a guilty conscience. |
| Only Anime I buy are my top 10 favorites, and the absolute classics(nearly everything on the old toonami)... That way I'm supporting what I like, while potentially helping to bring down the stuff I feel indifferent about. |
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| That was a actually very interesting and nice to read, very sad, but all the more inspirational. Never knew these people had it that bad and sacrificed so much just to create anime. Lol, now I love anime even more xD |
MellowJello said: Obviously piracy isn't going to stop. Free-flow of information is one of the defining attributes of the Internet. But for crap's sake, when/if you have the money, at least buy a copy of your favorite anime someday. I like this stance better than the two extremes, ie. 'Don't pirate anything' or 'I'm never spending money on anime'. Personally I'm very interested to see what that new streaming site will be like. I've forgotten what it was called but it was a Japan-based site aiming to stream things to an international market. Now that anime studios have finally embraced the fact that there is decent international demand for their product, I'm hoping they start generating a lot more revenue and in turn more shows. Also, I'll have to read that first post again, but from what I can remember, it was very long -_- I'll do it another time. |
| It's important to remember that availability does affect piracy. This is being rectified, of course, with Funimation, CrunchyRoll, and the upcoming Daisuki service (or whatever). So it seems like Japanese companies are slowly realizing this. There's still kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy about it all, though. Piracy affects sales, but then again $600 Gurren Lagann BluRay box sets are going to make piracy seem like a better option. The whole situation's kinda fucked up. |
I’m just excited to see my Lord and Savior, Baphomet, represented in such glorious Italian stone. I do hope his eyes gaze upon me and that my allegiance is recognized. |
| I'm also interested the jap streaming site. If you remember what its called please tell! or if anyone knows what it's called, thanks in advance. |
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miereneronaile said: For the particular streaming site, we have no clue (since it's not out yet). My yearly CrunchyRoll subscription is only $60/yr (the price of a triple-a video game), so I have no complaints if the cost is higher than that.Kamio-chan said: MellowJello said: Obviously piracy isn't going to stop. Free-flow of information is one of the defining attributes of the Internet. But for crap's sake, when/if you have the money, at least buy a copy of your favorite anime someday. I like this stance better than the two extremes, ie. 'Don't pirate anything' or 'I'm never spending money on anime'. Personally I'm very interested to see what that new streaming site will be like. I've forgotten what it was called but it was a Japan-based site aiming to stream things to an international market. Now that anime studios have finally embraced the fact that there is decent international demand for their product, I'm hoping they start generating a lot more revenue and in turn more shows. Also, I'll have to read that first post again, but from what I can remember, it was very long -_- I'll do it another time. Id pay quite a bit to a streaming site hosted by the people who MAKE the anime. How much do the current legal streaming sites cost ?? Original link for it is here: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=564043&show=0 |
etatau said: It's important to remember that availability does affect piracy. This is being rectified, of course, with Funimation, CrunchyRoll, and the upcoming Daisuki service (or whatever). So it seems like Japanese companies are slowly realizing this. There's still kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy about it all, though. Piracy affects sales, but then again $600 Gurren Lagann BluRay box sets are going to make piracy seem like a better option. The whole situation's kinda fucked up. Another thing the article has left out is Bootlegging and Counterfeiting. Sure, piracy is a big deal today to the industry. But that doesn't stop the other two as well. Especially, if you are an avid collector. And I know, it focusing on Anime. However, model kits, figures, soundtrack, artbook and etc.... also plays a roll on the industry as well. |
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etatau said: the upcoming Daisuki service (or whatever). That's the site I was talking about. It's not available as of yet, but it's in the works and I'm very keen to see what becomes of it. And yes, Mellow's got the right link. |
| Welcome to the world of art - the companies win, the creators lose. |
| This reminds me of that arc in Paranoia Agent, I guess they were speaking the truth after all I can't speak on expirence but I think the best root for an artist is to sell on his own instead of joining a company that cuts his profits into pieces, but of course then there comes the hardships of advertising and protecting your rights |
| sexual incest in nisomonogatari - no one bats an eye romance incest in SAO - everyone loses their minds |
gargS said: apatch3 said: Welcome to the world of art - the companies win, the creators lose. Please elaborate yourself. Capitalism kills art, in the end only the most mass produced stuff is funded, most true art goes unnoticed. Some people say we should blame consumers for this trend - well yes consumers do play a part in rallying around cliches and tropes but it's the production companies and publishers that aim to BREED a group of consumers that are predictable so it's a two way process. |
| Maybe this has already been said. You seem to believe that we are all from the US. Many of Crunchyroll's titles aren't even available where I live, and I refuse to support a website that so blatantly discriminates against many countries. That's for Crunchy - now why don't I buy DVDs? My monthly salary is 190 EUR. Less than 2400 EUR per year. The costs of living are the same as in the rest of Europe, save for the internet and phone flat-rates which are ridiculously cheap compared to the rest of the world. Everything else, fuel, electricity, heating, food are the same as in cities where the average salary is five times what I get. I wake up every day at 4 to get to work, but am grateful for even having a job. So no, I don't give a shit about people who (a) make more money than me (even taking the fact that it's Tokyo into account) and (b) on a job they chose. Many other pirates are the same. Downloads do not translate into lost profit. There were even studies on this, Japanese studies. According to these, downloads are the equivalent of renting a movie (no, producers do not get any significant money from rental stores). Most people download to watch, not to collect. |
| I don't really believe in what the OP sad as hi started with "In every single aspect, there just isn't enough money." as average anime companies earn quite alot so this shouldn't be the case. |
The real world is past the virtual world is future. |
wukp said: I don't really believe in what the OP sad as hi started with "In every single aspect, there just isn't enough money." as average anime companies earn quite alot so this shouldn't be the case. But a huge profit of the money goes elsewhere. Animation is ridiculously expensive. |
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| Ahhh I feel like my dream's being shattered away :'D |
 |
Kiraly said: Maybe this has already been said. You seem to believe that we are all from the US. Many of Crunchyroll's titles aren't even available where I live, and I refuse to support a website that so blatantly discriminates against many countries. That's for Crunchy - now why don't I buy DVDs? My monthly salary is 190 EUR. Less than 2400 EUR per year. The costs of living are the same as in the rest of Europe, save for the internet and phone flat-rates which are ridiculously cheap compared to the rest of the world. Everything else, fuel, electricity, heating, food are the same as in cities where the average salary is five times what I get. I wake up every day at 4 to get to work, but am grateful for even having a job. So no, I don't give a shit about people who (a) make more money than me (even taking the fact that it's Tokyo into account) and (b) on a job they chose. Many other pirates are the same. Downloads do not translate into lost profit. There were even studies on this, Japanese studies. According to these, downloads are the equivalent of renting a movie (no, producers do not get any significant money from rental stores). Most people download to watch, not to collect. Ok let's be simple about this. Is piracy bad? Yes. Is it going to stop? No. Simple as that. You can't go into a "Prohibition" in the same way you couldn't make Alcohol illegal in the US xD. |
| A great protagonist once said, "It's only overpowered if you can't return the favor!" |
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