Who is the strongest servant in Fate-verse?
sallym613 said: Oh yeah...why does Gil like Avenger? When Angra in the vortex of the mud cried out about who will acknowledge the curse and all the evils of the world in Fate/Zero, etc. Gilgamesh replied that he (the King) would. It was oddly... comforting for him. |
Thess said: I guess you could say it's a similar thing to Gil/Kirei. It all ties up to Kirei's and Gil's motivations in Stay Night but you only ever see why Kirei was so obsessed about the Grail until Heaven's Feel spells it out for you.sallym613 said: Oh yeah...why does Gil like Avenger? When Angra in the vortex of the mud cried out about who will acknowledge the curse and all the evils of the world in Fate/Zero, etc. Gilgamesh replied that he (the King) would. It was oddly... comforting for him. I have to say btw, I still find "All Evils of the World" to be probably one of my favorite Fate/Stay Night songs. Maybe we'll get a Kajiura version in Zero, who knows. |
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Leon-Gun said: That's my favorite, among with EMIYA. I hope we get to hear both. Would be amazing.I have to say btw, I still find "All Evils of the World" to be probably one of my favorite Fate/Stay Night songs. Maybe we'll get a Kajiura version in Zero, who knows. |
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Leon-Gun said: Thess said: sallym613 said: Oh yeah...why does Gil like Avenger? When Angra in the vortex of the mud cried out about who will acknowledge the curse and all the evils of the world in Fate/Zero, etc. Gilgamesh replied that he (the King) would. It was oddly... comforting for him. I guess you could say it's a similar thing to Gil/Kirei. It all ties up to Kirei's and Gil's motivations in Stay Night but you only ever see why Kirei was so obsessed about the Grail until Heaven's Feel spells it out for you. Oh okay. I still dont completely understand why Gil likes Avenger but if you say it's similar to Gil/Kirei, then I assume that you're saying Gil is fascinated with Avenger for some reason? stAtic91 said: Leon-Gun said: That's my favorite, among with EMIYA. I hope we get to hear both. Would be amazing.I have to say btw, I still find "All Evils of the World" to be probably one of my favorite Fate/Stay Night songs. Maybe we'll get a Kajiura version in Zero, who knows. Am I the only one who doesn't find EMIYA theme/song as epic as everyone else seems to think? No matter how many times I have heard it, I just dont get that "epic" feeling :/ Only slightly more if I hear it during VN or anime. (Don't kill me *runs away in case*) I really like "All Evils of the World" though. It's not my top favorite, but I like the feeling of haunting eeriness conveyed in it. |
sallym613 said: Leon-Gun said: Thess said: sallym613 said: Oh yeah...why does Gil like Avenger? When Angra in the vortex of the mud cried out about who will acknowledge the curse and all the evils of the world in Fate/Zero, etc. Gilgamesh replied that he (the King) would. It was oddly... comforting for him. I guess you could say it's a similar thing to Gil/Kirei. It all ties up to Kirei's and Gil's motivations in Stay Night but you only ever see why Kirei was so obsessed about the Grail until Heaven's Feel spells it out for you. Oh okay. I still dont completely understand why Gil likes Avenger but if you say it's similar to Gil/Kirei, then I assume that you're saying Gil is fascinated with Avenger for some reason? stAtic91 said: Leon-Gun said: That's my favorite, among with EMIYA. I hope we get to hear both. Would be amazing.I have to say btw, I still find "All Evils of the World" to be probably one of my favorite Fate/Stay Night songs. Maybe we'll get a Kajiura version in Zero, who knows. Am I the only one who doesn't find EMIYA theme/song as epic as everyone else seems to think? No matter how many times I have heard it, I just dont get that "epic" feeling :/ Only slightly more if I hear it during VN or anime. (Don't kill me *runs away in case*) I really like "All Evils of the World" though. It's not my top favorite, but I like the feeling of haunting eeriness conveyed in it. Do you people think that EMIYA them-kiritsugu version will play during Kirei vs Kiristugu?Maybe a Kajiura version? |
ssjokg said: sallym613 said: Leon-Gun said: Thess said: sallym613 said: Oh yeah...why does Gil like Avenger? When Angra in the vortex of the mud cried out about who will acknowledge the curse and all the evils of the world in Fate/Zero, etc. Gilgamesh replied that he (the King) would. It was oddly... comforting for him. I guess you could say it's a similar thing to Gil/Kirei. It all ties up to Kirei's and Gil's motivations in Stay Night but you only ever see why Kirei was so obsessed about the Grail until Heaven's Feel spells it out for you. Oh okay. I still dont completely understand why Gil likes Avenger but if you say it's similar to Gil/Kirei, then I assume that you're saying Gil is fascinated with Avenger for some reason? stAtic91 said: Leon-Gun said: I have to say btw, I still find "All Evils of the World" to be probably one of my favorite Fate/Stay Night songs. Maybe we'll get a Kajiura version in Zero, who knows. That's my favorite, among with EMIYA. I hope we get to hear both. Would be amazing. Am I the only one who doesn't find EMIYA theme/song as epic as everyone else seems to think? No matter how many times I have heard it, I just dont get that "epic" feeling :/ Only slightly more if I hear it during VN or anime. (Don't kill me *runs away in case*) I really like "All Evils of the World" though. It's not my top favorite, but I like the feeling of haunting eeriness conveyed in it. Do you people think that EMIYA them-kiritsugu version will play during Kirei vs Kiristugu?Maybe a Kajiura version? A Kiritsugu version of Emiya? I would die from epicness overload. |
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ataraxial said: ssjokg said: sallym613 said: Leon-Gun said: Thess said: sallym613 said: Oh yeah...why does Gil like Avenger? When Angra in the vortex of the mud cried out about who will acknowledge the curse and all the evils of the world in Fate/Zero, etc. Gilgamesh replied that he (the King) would. It was oddly... comforting for him. I guess you could say it's a similar thing to Gil/Kirei. It all ties up to Kirei's and Gil's motivations in Stay Night but you only ever see why Kirei was so obsessed about the Grail until Heaven's Feel spells it out for you. Oh okay. I still dont completely understand why Gil likes Avenger but if you say it's similar to Gil/Kirei, then I assume that you're saying Gil is fascinated with Avenger for some reason? stAtic91 said: Leon-Gun said: I have to say btw, I still find "All Evils of the World" to be probably one of my favorite Fate/Stay Night songs. Maybe we'll get a Kajiura version in Zero, who knows. That's my favorite, among with EMIYA. I hope we get to hear both. Would be amazing. Am I the only one who doesn't find EMIYA theme/song as epic as everyone else seems to think? No matter how many times I have heard it, I just dont get that "epic" feeling :/ Only slightly more if I hear it during VN or anime. (Don't kill me *runs away in case*) I really like "All Evils of the World" though. It's not my top favorite, but I like the feeling of haunting eeriness conveyed in it. Do you people think that EMIYA them-kiritsugu version will play during Kirei vs Kiristugu?Maybe a Kajiura version? A Kiritsugu version of Emiya? I would die from epicness overload. Most likely Kajiura's version of it. |
| I dunno, would it fit Kiritsugu? It fits Archer and SHirou due to the way they're set up as the flip sides of the ideal of a "hero" but Kiritsugu doesn't fit that bill. I'm more likely to associate Kiritsugu to a shady kind of theme than an action theme. EMIYA is supposed to give you a sort of "rush" when the action begins, which is fitting for men whose life are shaped by swords. |
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| Emiya remix plays in sound drama. So I expect a remix to play during Kotomine vs Kiritsugu - but I really want to hear 'end of reminiscence' for dat nostalgia Pan151 said: myths of Genesis Also just to correct this, the legend of Gilgamesh is older than anything from the Bible if you're looking at it objectively. |
LostHanyou said: Pan151 said: myths of Genesis Also just to correct this, the legend of Gilgamesh is older than anything from the Bible if you're looking at it objectively. "Genesis" does not necessarily refer to the Genesis described in the Bible. It refers to any myths about creation - could just as well be the story of Imir from the Nords, Pan-Ku from the Chinese, Pandora from the Greeks or Izanami and Izanagi from the Japanese. The old Testament is, anyway, to a great extent, a mis-mash from slightly altered myths from old Mesopotamia (the story of Noah and the Ark for example comes straight from the Epic of- wait for it - Gilgamesh :)). Lilith's myth in partricular is one of the oldest - she was well established as a demonic figure before Gilgamesh's time (in fact iirc they even fought once) |
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Leon-Gun said: I dunno, would it fit Kiritsugu? It fits Archer and SHirou due to the way they're set up as the flip sides of the ideal of a "hero" but Kiritsugu doesn't fit that bill. I'm more likely to associate Kiritsugu to a shady kind of theme than an action theme. EMIYA is supposed to give you a sort of "rush" when the action begins, which is fitting for men whose life are shaped by swords. Sound Drama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6aPk8BHwf0 at 5:58 theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqls64aYUs |
ssjokg said: Hmm, I dunno, I still can't see it, even if they did give it to him. But I guess considering it's an action sequence.Leon-Gun said: I dunno, would it fit Kiritsugu? It fits Archer and SHirou due to the way they're set up as the flip sides of the ideal of a "hero" but Kiritsugu doesn't fit that bill. I'm more likely to associate Kiritsugu to a shady kind of theme than an action theme. EMIYA is supposed to give you a sort of "rush" when the action begins, which is fitting for men whose life are shaped by swords. Sound Drama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6aPk8BHwf0 at 5:58 theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqls64aYUs |
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Leon-Gun said: ssjokg said: Leon-Gun said: I dunno, would it fit Kiritsugu? It fits Archer and SHirou due to the way they're set up as the flip sides of the ideal of a "hero" but Kiritsugu doesn't fit that bill. I'm more likely to associate Kiritsugu to a shady kind of theme than an action theme. EMIYA is supposed to give you a sort of "rush" when the action begins, which is fitting for men whose life are shaped by swords. Sound Drama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6aPk8BHwf0 at 5:58 theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqls64aYUs Hmm, I dunno, I still can't see it, even if they did give it to him. But I guess considering it's an action sequence. Kiritsugu still has some swordiness, even if it's not as blatant as Archer and Shirou. His command seal is a sword and he's the master of Saber... and I don't see why EMIYA can't go with someone who uses guns anyways, especially if they use something badass like his Thompson Contender. |
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ataraxial said: Yeah, I guess I'll just have to wait and see. Pre-judging because of Stay Night's preconceptions isn't fair.Leon-Gun said: ssjokg said: Leon-Gun said: I dunno, would it fit Kiritsugu? It fits Archer and SHirou due to the way they're set up as the flip sides of the ideal of a "hero" but Kiritsugu doesn't fit that bill. I'm more likely to associate Kiritsugu to a shady kind of theme than an action theme. EMIYA is supposed to give you a sort of "rush" when the action begins, which is fitting for men whose life are shaped by swords. Sound Drama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6aPk8BHwf0 at 5:58 theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqls64aYUs Hmm, I dunno, I still can't see it, even if they did give it to him. But I guess considering it's an action sequence. Kiritsugu still has some swordiness, even if it's not as blatant as Archer and Shirou. His command seal is a sword and he's the master of Saber... and I don't see why EMIYA can't go with someone who uses guns anyways, especially if they use something badass like his Thompson Contender. |
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Pan151 said: Lilith's myth in partricular is one of the oldest - she was well established as a demonic figure before Gilgamesh's time (in fact iirc they even fought once) Lilith myth IS recent actually. You're confusing Lilith with Lilitu. They aren't quite the same thing. It was borrowed like a lot was lifted from the Epic. The Epic is called the first hero myth because is one of the oldest chronologically irl. |
Thess said: Pan151 said: Lilith's myth in partricular is one of the oldest - she was well established as a demonic figure before Gilgamesh's time (in fact iirc they even fought once) Lilith myth IS recent actually. You're confusing Lilith with Lilitu. They aren't quite the same thing. It was borrowed like a lot was lifted from the Epic. The Epic is called the first hero myth because is one of the oldest chronologically irl. It is however believed -though not very widely- that Lilitu demons' myths were the origin of Lilith's myths. And, at any rate, almost all ancient cultures have myths about female, vampiric, child-killing demons that tie up with Lilith's modern myth. If they ever introduced her in the franchise they would most probably tie her with Crimson Moon Brunestud anyway, so discussing the exact legends is not that much relevant. Fate does often change parts of the myths anyway - with King Arthur being the prime example. |
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Pan151 said: Thess said: Pan151 said: Lilith's myth in partricular is one of the oldest - she was well established as a demonic figure before Gilgamesh's time (in fact iirc they even fought once) Lilith myth IS recent actually. You're confusing Lilith with Lilitu. They aren't quite the same thing. It was borrowed like a lot was lifted from the Epic. The Epic is called the first hero myth because is one of the oldest chronologically irl. It is however believed -though not very widely- that Lilitu demons' myths were the origin of Lilith's myths. And, at any rate, almost all ancient cultures have myths about female, vampiric, child-killing demons that tie up with Lilith's modern myth. If they ever introduced her in the franchise they would most probably tie her with Crimson Moon Brunestud anyway, so discussing the exact legends is not that much relevant. Fate does often change parts of the myths anyway - with King Arthur being the prime example. What I mean that the myth of Lilith as the first woman (which only became a thing around the 8th century) is more modern than the ancient Gilgamesh tablet. The Lilitu appear first in his epic, but it's his legend first and foremost. It's like Gilgamesh's father, Lugalbanda, he had his legend written after Gilgamesh. So while he is his father, he's not the first hero. That's still Gilgamesh. sallym613 said: Oh okay. I still dont completely understand why Gil likes Avenger but if you say it's similar to Gil/Kirei, then I assume that you're saying Gil is fascinated with Avenger for some reason? We don't know if he likes Avenger's personality, but he acknowledges the existence of all the Evils of the World as part of his kingdom when it wails within the Grail. That's his decision as the king. It doesn't bother him. Although he would probably like him because it's arrogance for a mere human to carry this burden that transcended their humanity (even if he wasn't exactly willing, he came to accept this after all the torture broke him) which is the reason why he likes Saber, Rider and Enkidu. Also why he values Kirei (since he's challenging God in a way to ask his question him in his 'fearless pursuit'). I think what Leon meant is that, while the 'normal' world condemns Angra and Kirei for being born this way. Gilgamesh comes and accepts their existence and encourages them to be themselves. Of course as long they are 'following' him. |
ThessMay 30, 2012 10:17 AM
Thess said: sallym613 said: Oh okay. I still dont completely understand why Gil likes Avenger but if you say it's similar to Gil/Kirei, then I assume that you're saying Gil is fascinated with Avenger for some reason? We don't know if he likes Avenger's personality, but he acknowledges the existence of all the Evils of the World as part of his kingdom when it wails within the Grail. That's his decision as the king. It doesn't bother him. Although he would probably like him because it's arrogance for a mere human to carry this burden that transcended their humanity (even if he wasn't exactly willing, he came to accept this after all the torture broke him) which is the reason why he likes Saber, Rider and Enkidu. Also why he values Kirei (since he's challenging God in a way to ask his question him in his 'fearless pursuit'). I think what Leon meant is that, while the 'normal' world condemns Angra and Kirei for being born this way. Gilgamesh comes and accepts their existence and encourages them to be themselves. Of course as long they are 'following' him. Oh okay I see. So..is it out of Gilgamesh's natural, sadistic nature that he is fascinated with anyone who tries to carry burdens that are way beyond their human limits? Or does he genuinely admire them? Is it also different for each case/individual? Because he treats Rider and Enkidu, and Kirei rather...differently from the way he treats Saber.... Actually now that I think of it, could it also be because they also remind Gil a bit of himself? After all, if I remember the myth behind Gil, he also likes to challenge the gods and do some crazy, dangerous, but "heroic" feats. Well of course, I'm not saying that Gil sees himself as human, but it's just a small similarity that I notice between him and those people... Well anyhow thanks for your explanation. It really helps (: And what do you mean exactly by them 'following' Gil? |
| ^SO long as they acknowledge he's the King and they are his subjects. |
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Leon-Gun said: ^SO long as they acknowledge he's the King and they are his subjects. Oh. Right. |
sallym613 said: Oh okay I see. So..is it out of Gilgamesh's natural, sadistic nature that he is fascinated with anyone who tries to carry burdens that are way beyond their human limits? Or does he genuinely admire them? Is it also different for each case/individual? Because he treats Rider and Enkidu, and Kirei rather...differently from the way he treats Saber.... All those listed have different relationships, IMO: Enkidu was made to complete him. So he's very special. It seems all his relationships are really influenced under the shadow of Enkidu. He surpasses everything he has in the world. All his treasures. All the rest, he might forget or get tired of eventually, Enkidu is forever (so glad his theme song is about his loss of Enkidu). Saber is a little like Enkidu which makes him attracted to her, but she rejects him as King (which Enkidu doesn't as seem in strange fake which is the closest to a characterization for now), so while he admires her as a treasure to possess it seems he can't see her beyond a possession sometimes. That's the lack of respect he has sometimes, it seems he can't regard her as a person. Although this fanart offers a great other explanation (which I also like). Rider is his worthy foe. He aims high, but he's also another king. He respects him as king (while Saber is a ruler too she's a Knight one, which is essentially a servant rather than a conqueror). There can't be two kings. He wants to conquer his kingdom. So he has to lay down the law to punish him. But he totally likes him and respects him and admires him. He might be incompatible to live with him because he'll demand to be an equal, and Gilgamesh accepts no equals aside of Enkidu. Kirei is his subject he deems worthy of his loyalty and his kindness. He will give him the Grail, save his life, ensure his goal, encourage to be happy, also he stayed with him for a decade. This isn't easy to pull off. The king is generous to those who 'serve' him. Kirei managed to never anger him or make him bored with his company. It's like his entire existence effortlessly makes him likable to Gilgamesh. It's because he's deprived of an ego. That's how they can flawlessly act as partners in crime. You can say the three together combined = Enkidu. Also interestingly, all of they have defied Gilgamesh or at least haven't acted like doormats like Tokiomi. Kirei was a smartass and insulted him. He was never bothered with that attitude. The groveling is what he finds boring (which makes sense since Enkidu wrestled him during their first meeting). sallym613 said: Actually now that I think of it, could it also be because they also remind Gil a bit of himself? After all, if I remember the myth behind Gil, he also likes to challenge the gods and do some crazy, dangerous, but "heroic" feats. Well of course, I'm not saying that Gil sees himself as human, but it's just a small similarity that I notice between him and those people... This too. Kirei is similar to Gilgamesh in that he's a force of nature. He was born this way. Gilgamesh is the king because he is. Kirei is evil because he is. I don't think it's a coincidence their significant others (Enkidu and Mrs. Kotomine) died in their arms thinking about their happiness. Kotomine's resolution to question his existence is something that would be approved by him. |
ThessMay 30, 2012 6:25 PM
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Sources saying F/UC is cannon part of nasuverse? Whatever is compiled in the Character Materials is canon. UC not only had the scenarios written by Nasu, but also appears in Fate/Extra Material. BloodRequiem said: And also just because he says he likes the guy and will suck compared to him doesn't mean that he really will lose. He says he's inferior to Lancelot. Period? We're talking about overall edge, it's Lancelot's. BloodRequiem said: Rin never attempted to disrupt the structure of Zelretch with her own prana while KoH requires Lancelot's corrupt prana to soak the weapon therefore disrupting the structure Uh yes, she did? She had to wield it by processing mana (exterior) and making her own to release it. She had fill it with her prana too... BloodRequiem said: supersonic is from 9 bullet revolver narration: I surpass the crashing speed of sound Which still needed Berserker to be BLIND and slower than usual and get distracted to strike? Lancelot and David (from Apocrypha) are the two Servants who would make Gilgamesh and EMIYA hate their lives. Has Archer ever met Lancelot? No. Has Archer ever fought Lancelot? No. So we cannot take his quote as the absolute truth. There is still room for debate. In that fight Zelretch gathered the "mana" type of non characteristic prana in the air, it basically did all the work for her and all she needed to do is to wield and swing We don't know if she used her own "odo" type of prana in the blasts But if she did it would mean that she could use 2nd magic which she can't I'm not saying that other people cannot hold projections, what I means is that Knight of Honour won't work because the projection is maintained by the caster's image. By corrupting it it would sever the ties with Archer so it will no longer be stable. Just like how Archer's weapons disappeared after he got killed by Hercules because the connection is no longer there. Hercules being blind in that fight has no effect on the ability to swing a stone axe-club at mach speed with deadly precision. Except it's not based on his memories. It's from seeing the axe sword in the present as Shirou. There is no basis for assuming that he has Nine Lives stored in his arsenal. If it were, why doesn't he ever use it? Just because he didn't use it for plot related reasons doesn't mean that he can't. He saw Hercules' axe-club in ALL of the routes and by his ability he can replicate anything other than Excalibur (Excalipoor doesn't count), Arondight, Avalon, Caliburn, and Ea out of all the weapons we know. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ssjokg said: Leon-Gun said: I dunno, would it fit Kiritsugu? It fits Archer and SHirou due to the way they're set up as the flip sides of the ideal of a "hero" but Kiritsugu doesn't fit that bill. I'm more likely to associate Kiritsugu to a shady kind of theme than an action theme. EMIYA is supposed to give you a sort of "rush" when the action begins, which is fitting for men whose life are shaped by swords. Sound Drama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6aPk8BHwf0 at 5:58 theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqls64aYUs I don't really care about another version of EMIYA cuz we already have like a bajillion versions of it What I am expecting is this to play when Kiritsugu and Shirou have their little chat under the moonlight and tears will fall like streams I'd also like Tainaka Sachi to sing a song...I mean it's a Fate franchise...you gotta have her sing at least 1 song... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| AH that song. Funny part is that even though that song is like a trademark of Kiritsugu's tranquil death, I always associate it with Saber's dream, since it fits so well into her despair at seeing a battlefield full of her knights all dead because of a civil war she blames herself for. Actually, that's honestly why I can't ever agree with Rider's view of Saber, since he never truly experienced a kingdom falling around him. His knigdom fell AFTER he died, when his generals fought each other for it. I guess to me it's somehing like "you can wag your tongue all you like but if you didn't live it you wouldn't know how you'd react". I'm sure Saber would have accepted things if she had left a stable kingdom behind and it was her sons that destroyed it. Well, we'll see more of Saber's despair soon in thee Zero anime anyway. |
Leon-GunMay 30, 2012 7:35 PM
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Leon-Gun said: AH that song. Funny part is that even though that song is like a trademark of Kiritsugu's tranquil death, I always associate it with Saber's dream, since it fits so well into her despair at seeing a battlefield full of her knights all dead because of a civil war she blames herself for. Actually, that's honestly why I can't ever agree with Rider's view of Saber, since he never truly experienced a kingdom falling around him. His knigdom fell AFTER he died, when his generals fought each other for it. I guess to me it's somehing like "you can wag your tongue all you like but if you didn't live it you wouldn't know how you'd react". I'm sure Saber would have accepted things if she had left a stable kingdom behind and it was her sons that destroyed it. Well, we'll see more of Saber's despair soon in thee Zero anime anyway. Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. I feel like it's a bit too pretty for Kiritsugu, while the delicateness of the melody is perfect for the tragedy of Saber. |
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BloodRequiem said: What I am expecting is this to play when Kiritsugu and Shirou have their little chat under the moonlight and tears will fall like streams I'd also like Tainaka Sachi to sing a song...I mean it's a Fate franchise...you gotta have her sing at least 1 song... Would love to hear Ever-Present Feeling. One of my top music from Fate. Guess we may hear Kajiura's version of it? Would also be nice to hear Tainaka Sachi sing one song but I doubt it will happen. |
BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: Leon-Gun said: I dunno, would it fit Kiritsugu? It fits Archer and SHirou due to the way they're set up as the flip sides of the ideal of a "hero" but Kiritsugu doesn't fit that bill. I'm more likely to associate Kiritsugu to a shady kind of theme than an action theme. EMIYA is supposed to give you a sort of "rush" when the action begins, which is fitting for men whose life are shaped by swords. Sound Drama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6aPk8BHwf0 at 5:58 theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqls64aYUs I don't really care about another version of EMIYA cuz we already have like a bajillion versions of it What I am expecting is this to play when Kiritsugu and Shirou have their little chat under the moonlight and tears will fall like streams I'd also like Tainaka Sachi to sing a song...I mean it's a Fate franchise...you gotta have her sing at least 1 song... I am already crying over here. I know it would be kinda unfitting of thedark atmosphere of FZ but Arata no Yoake would be good for after their chat Leon-Gun said: AH that song. Funny part is that even though that song is like a trademark of the Kiritsuu's tranquil death, I always associate it with Saber's dream, since it fits so well into her despair at seeing a battlefield full of her knights all dead because of a civil war she blames herself for. Actually, that's honestly why I can't ever agree with Rider's view of Saber, since he never truly experienced a kingdom falling around him. His knigdom fell AFTER he died, when his generals fought each other for it. I guess to me it's somehing like "you can wag your tongue all you like but if you didn't live it you wouldn't know how you'd react". I'm sure Saber would have accepted things if she had left a stable kingdom behind and it was her sons that destroyed it. Well, we'll see more of Saber's despair soon in thee Zero anime anyway. Alexander doesnt accept that Arturia wants to change the story of "King Arthur".He believes it's humiliating for her and the ones that followed her.It's the same reason he doesnt want to change his death.You can see it in theri myths.Arthur is said to be in Avalon recovering his wounds and will return as a messiah to lead the British people against their enemies. Alexander's sister Thessalonike turned into a mermaid after her death asking passing ships"Is King Alexander alive?" where the correct answer is " "He lives and reigns and conquers the world" anything else as an answer meant death.Arthur returns(change),Alexander continues.I at least, see it that way. Oh my body isnt ready yet for Saber vs Berserker |
ssjokgMay 30, 2012 7:57 PM
| @ Thess: Oh I never thought of it that way, but it's really interesting what you pointed out. I really enjoyed reading your analysis and comparison between Enkidu and the rest of the others mentioned (Saber, Rider, Kirei and well...Avenger). And the fanfiction adds a nice touch to the whole thing between him, Saber and Enkidu. Makes me want to read Fate/Strange Fake soooo badly. And I'm thinking of re-reading Epic of Gilgamesh too. Also, Gil's theme song = As in the one in Aoi Eir CD titled "Image Song Album - Prayer"? I didn't hear about this until just now from a friend (I got so excited hearing this because I really didn't expect them to make songs dedicated to servants). |
Oh my body isnt ready yet for Saber vs Berserker IKR I'd like to see Arondight animated and Lancelot without the mist. ufotable is gonna blow a fortune animating the details on his armour. Also the fight between these 2 Kiritsugu: Are you kidding me? This son of a bitch just blocked my bullet with his fists Kirei: Why wont this bastard die? I punched his guts out |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
sallym613 said: @ Thess: Oh I never thought of it that way, but it's really interesting what you pointed out. I really enjoyed reading your analysis and comparison between Enkidu and the rest of the others mentioned (Saber, Rider, Kirei and well...Avenger). And the fanfiction adds a nice touch to the whole thing between him, Saber and Enkidu. Makes me want to read Fate/Strange Fake soooo badly. And I'm thinking of re-reading Epic of Gilgamesh too. Also, Gil's theme song = As in the one in Aoi Eir CD titled "Image Song Album - Prayer"? I didn't hear about this until just now from a friend (I got so excited hearing this because I really didn't expect them to make songs dedicated to servants). Here is Gil's song if your interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZbOvRRWRwI&feature=relmfu |
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Ragna92 said: sallym613 said: @ Thess: Oh I never thought of it that way, but it's really interesting what you pointed out. I really enjoyed reading your analysis and comparison between Enkidu and the rest of the others mentioned (Saber, Rider, Kirei and well...Avenger). And the fanfiction adds a nice touch to the whole thing between him, Saber and Enkidu. Makes me want to read Fate/Strange Fake soooo badly. And I'm thinking of re-reading Epic of Gilgamesh too. Also, Gil's theme song = As in the one in Aoi Eir CD titled "Image Song Album - Prayer"? I didn't hear about this until just now from a friend (I got so excited hearing this because I really didn't expect them to make songs dedicated to servants). Here is Gil's song if your interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZbOvRRWRwI&feature=relmfu Thanks a lot Ragna! I have already downloaded the songs, but it really helps to know what the lyrics say :) (Luckily someone on YT translated the lyrics for Gil's theme!) |
sallym613 said: Thanks a lot Ragna! I have already downloaded the songs, but it really helps to know what the lyrics say :) (Luckily someone on YT translated the lyrics for Gil's theme!) Some of those lyrics are a bit wonky (not badly translated but since the Japanese sometimes lacked article and pronouns, they took a liberty to add them and didn't fit sometimes IMO). Like "The only one in this world" is a literal way to translate "forever alone.jpg" metaphor. There's a lot of fanart based on the song. Some cute some sad as heck. |
Thess said: sallym613 said: Thanks a lot Ragna! I have already downloaded the songs, but it really helps to know what the lyrics say :) (Luckily someone on YT translated the lyrics for Gil's theme!) Some of those lyrics are a bit wonky (not badly translated but since the Japanese sometimes lacked article and pronouns, they took a liberty to add them and didn't fit sometimes IMO). Like "The only one in this world" is a literal way to translate "forever alone.jpg" metaphor. There's a lot of fanart based on the song. Some cute some sad as heck. Hmm true. The translation did confuse me on who is being referred to throughout the lyrics (Enkidu or Gil?). It's hard to tell whether the lyrics are told from 1st or 3rd person too. At least I can tell that the song is about Gil's grief over Enkidu. And hopefully there will be better translations online later on? |
sallym613 said: Hmm true. The translation did confuse me on who is being referred to throughout the lyrics (Enkidu or Gil?). It's hard to tell whether the lyrics are told from 1st or 3rd person too. At least I can tell that the song is about Gil's grief over Enkidu. And hopefully there will be better translations online later on? Sent a message so we won't derail :) |
| That Saber vs. Berserker fight was a bit misleading, although the inordinately large prana consumption cost just from revealing and using Arondight should be considered when debating the merits of ZeroZerker. |
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ataraxial said: That Saber vs. Berserker fight was a bit misleading, although the inordinately large prana consumption cost just from revealing and using Arondight should be considered when debating the merits of ZeroZerker. Yeah but dont forget that this wasnt Lancelot's first fight.And even after Kariya took Sakura's first worm, Berserker was forced to use an unusable, due to his class, NP |
| Wait is Gilgamesh in the poll Serious Gil or EGO Gil? And We're talking about Normal Saber or Saber with Avalon? |
Lumathy said: Wait is Gilgamesh in the poll Serious Gil or EGO Gil? And We're talking about Normal Saber or Saber with Avalon? Everyone at their best as long as we have info on their powers. Like SaberxRin or Saber AlterxSakura=No Avalon,SaberxShirou=shitty Saber.Serious Gil,FSN Gil. |
ssjokg said: Lumathy said: Wait is Gilgamesh in the poll Serious Gil or EGO Gil? And We're talking about Normal Saber or Saber with Avalon? Everyone at their best as long as we have info on their powers. Like SaberxRin or Saber AlterxSakura=No Avalon,SaberxShirou=shitty Saber.Serious Gil,FSN Gil. So we're talking about pure power levels here? If so there's really not much to debate. It's obvious Gilgamesh tops the list. Then Saber (with Avalon). Then FSN Berserker. Why does Lancer or Caster or ... even have votes anyway? Sympathy votes? |
Lumathy said: ssjokg said: Lumathy said: Wait is Gilgamesh in the poll Serious Gil or EGO Gil? And We're talking about Normal Saber or Saber with Avalon? Everyone at their best as long as we have info on their powers. Like SaberxRin or Saber AlterxSakura=No Avalon,SaberxShirou=shitty Saber.Serious Gil,FSN Gil. So we're talking about pure power levels here? If so there's really not much to debate. It's obvious Gilgamesh tops the list. Then Saber (with Avalon). Then FSN Berserker. Why does Lancer or Caster or ... even have votes anyway? Sympathy votes? Power levels,NP,ideal starting distances for the fights.Try reading some of the posts.You will see how we decided some fights.It was fun |
ataraxial said: That may be true, but Kariya's just a horrible Master on top of that. I mean, sure, we've never seen Berserker with any other Master, but to judge him only on his merits with Kariya is like judging Saber only with what she can get from Shirou.That Saber vs. Berserker fight was a bit misleading, although the inordinately large prana consumption cost just from revealing and using Arondight should be considered when debating the merits of ZeroZerker. |
| Is Zero Saber (w/ Kerry) > FSN Saber (w/ Shirou)? And how would Zero Gil beat Saber w/ Avalon? I thought Avalon is some imba shield... |
KurogashiJun 26, 2012 2:57 PM
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| Isnt it obvious its Gilgamesh? That guy is so OP'd but epic >_< |
 "Have you ever encounter a wild beast that guarantees to never bite anyone?" ~ Roronoa Zoro |
Kurogashi said: Is Zero Saber (w/ Kerry) > FSN Saber (w/ Shirou)? And how would Zero Gil beat Saber w/ Avalon? I thought Avalon is some imba shield... Yeah Kiritsugu Saber is >Shirou Saber. The user can't attack while in Avalon's special defense. @Deathraver Yeah it's pretty obvious but in character Gil would definitely lose to Archer(Emiya). |
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Kurogashi said: Is Zero Saber (w/ Kerry) > FSN Saber (w/ Shirou)? And how would Zero Gil beat Saber w/ Avalon? I thought Avalon is some imba shield... GOB her when she runs out of prana and have to come out. Tbh Gil didn't even have to use Ea against her in F/SN. And yes Kerry Saber is better than Shirou Saber but in F/SN she would have died from Gae Bolg during her first encounter with Lancer because of D luck... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Can Saber with Avalon beat Berserker(Zero) if he has a proper master? |
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Ragna92 said: Can Saber with Avalon beat Berserker(Zero) if he has a proper master? Avalon can't do shit against Lancelot so it doesn't make much of a difference. She will just get destroyed when she comes out exhausted. I'd imagine Rin Saber to fight on par and Alter dominating. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Ragna92 said: Can Saber with Avalon beat Berserker(Zero) if he has a proper master? I don't think so, she admits herself that he is a better swordsman. And Avalon wouldn't be really that useful in swordfight, aside from being a healing factorand giving a possibility for short break. Unless she used it to shield herself while she charges Excalibur (because I can't imagine Berserker giving her enough time to do it during the battle). After that it is a question of whether Berserker would have enough sanity to realize what's going on and dodge Excaliblast. But aside from the successful Excaliblasting scenario I don't see her winning. |
Trenerka said: Ragna92 said: Can Saber with Avalon beat Berserker(Zero) if he has a proper master? I don't think so, she admits herself that he is a better swordsman. And Avalon wouldn't be really that useful in swordfight, aside from being a healing factorand giving a possibility for short break. Unless she used it to shield herself while she charges Excalibur (because I can't imagine Berserker giving her enough time to do it during the battle). After that it is a question of whether Berserker would have enough sanity to realize what's going on and dodge Excaliblast. But aside from the successful Excaliblasting scenario I don't see her winning. Can she even charge Excalibur while in Avalon? I'm pretty sure she can't. |
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