Baman said: Jrittmayer said: But that's just the natural way of things when everything is available for free online. People won't waste their money on a random title, especially not when it's so damned expensive. Of course, it is another matter entirely in Japan where you could just check the stuff out on TV first, but without that ability, we're forced to either download it illegally or gamble our money on whatever looks flashy. And I see absolutely no reason to do the latter.Thats kind of the problem, the attitude of fans that they don't have to give the industry money for watching anime unless THEY feel like it..... In the end, we only resort to piracy because it is efficient and and cheap. We don't owe the industry anything at all, they're the ones trying to sell their product, so it goes without saying that they should be working to provide us with proper service. They should make us want to pay them by making affordable quality products, realising them efficiently and sweetening the deal somehow to make it more tempting than piracy. Trying to crack down on piracy is an exercise in futility, and will only serve to alienate them from their consumers. And I absolutely agree with you. Piracy is too easy and too convenient, and best of all free. They've tried making it harder, and less convenient but ideally a better way is to make the legal route EASIER and MORE convenient, kinda like iTunes has done with music. Trouble is, the anime industry is NOT the movie or music industry, especially in the states and other regions outside Japan. It's a niche market and that alone makes it much harder for them to be profitable. Thats no excuse NOT to try and find ways to reach consumers that don't involve suing them, but, like the guy in this video said, we can't just keep taking and taking and expect everything to be hunky dory. |
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Baman said: But that's just the natural way of things when everything is available for free online. People won't waste their money on a random title, especially not when it's so damned expensive. Of course, it is another matter entirely in Japan where you could just check the stuff out on TV first, but without that ability, we're forced to either download it illegally or gamble our money on whatever looks flashy. And I see absolutely no reason to do the latter. In the end, we only resort to piracy because it is efficient and and cheap. We don't owe the industry anything at all, they're the ones trying to sell their product, so it goes without saying that they should be working to provide us with proper service. They should make us want to pay them by making affordable quality products, realising them efficiently and sweetening the deal somehow to make it more tempting than piracy. Trying to crack down on piracy is an exercise in futility, and will only serve to alienate them from their consumers. I hear exactly what you're saying; I know there are frustrations to be had with the industry. But when you say "we don't owe the industry anything at all," I just cannot understand what's going through your head. How can someone with 10,000+ posts in an anime community honestly say this? How can someone who's watched 100+ days of anime honestly say this? Look, the answer is simple: 1. Budget some portion of your income to anime -- i.e., the amount of money you would spend on anime in a world without piracy. Anime notwithstanding, it's fiscally responsible to have a budget anyway. 2. Download or illegally stream as much anime as you can; fill your hard drive to the brim with as much pirated material as you can possibly watch. 3. Spend the entirety your anime budget on whatever you feel is most deserving of it, based on the pirated anime you watched. Imports, licensed anime, merchandise, whatever. It doesn't matter if you pay $75 for 3 episodes; your budget is measured in dollars, not number of products. The amount of apathy and cynicism from some people isn't just frightening, it's baffling. Is the industry's distribution model perfect? Far from it! Is piracy bad? Far from it! -- and it should be clear from the steps above that I think piracy is a wonderful thing. But putting $0 into the industry's revenue is doing more harm than good. |
360justin said: First of all please let's stop this silly PIRACY = STEALING bs. It's just factually wrong on every level. And this is the main reason why sopa and pipa start happening people doing piracy if the bills went into full affect everyone would be forced to buy dvds or blu-rays but I'm willing to bet its the same idiotic people that would still do it with sopa in affect they will just have to face major jail time, but right now that is not the case but look at all the file hosts thats been shut down recently, how long is people going to sail on their boat and pirate every piece of item they can find? When would the stealing actually stop, whats so hard about supporting the animes you like.? And secondly who gives a shit about SOPA and all that crap, that's still not enough to stop piracy. Jail time? Yea right. And even if you happen to live in an Orwellian tyranny state like that (I don't), there's still loads of ways to evade it. TOR, Private trackers, over 9000 proxies and what have you. And if sites keep getting shut down, then they'll just relocate to a more progressive nation that doesn't try to ban freedom on the internet, whether that's here in Scandinavia or in some backwards African country that doesn't give a shit or a place like China where copyright is not in the dictionary. Hakuromatsu said: Come on now, take a look at what the industry as a hole keeps pumping out. Sure there are gems in between the refuse, and a lot of that I either have, plan to or want to buy if they would let me, but that's because I happen to like those series and want them for my collection, not because I feel any responsibility to support the industry. It's a dog eat god world, and I'll do whatever benefits me the most, even illegal stuff if I can get away with it, and that's not exactly hard here.I hear exactly what you're saying; I know there are frustrations to be had with the industry. But when you say "we don't owe the industry anything at all," I just cannot understand what's going through your head. How can someone with 10,000+ posts in an anime community honestly say this? How can someone who's watched 100+ days of anime honestly say this? And again, I'll put the blame on the industry. Get rid of all that pants-on-head retarded region blocking so I can order stuff from the US that's not available here for example. No way I'm going to buy those Utena dvd boxes when I probably won't be able to play them in most of my machines, and though I'm actually kind of tempted to buy the LoGH collection from Japan, the massive price coupled with region blocking and no subs doesn't exactly convince me. Also, yes lol, it does matter if I waste 75$ on three measly episodes. Assuming of course the series in question has more than that. I've got enough expensive hobbies already and for that price I could get a game, a regiment of Stormvermin or a couple of Gundam kits. Really, it wouldn't even cross my mind to pay for small dvds like that for such prices, if there's not a full season box set, then count me out. Which is really annoying when a lot of older series are pretty much impossible to track down in boxes like that. |
| I don't share similar views with Baman, but I don't disagree with his mindset. He's being extremely practical. All of us on this forum are anime fans regardless of how we view the material. To be frank, none of us owe the industry at all. It's a business, and businesses are there to make money. I agree that the current physical media for anime stateside is extremely lacking for one reason or another, and since those are disagreeable to what we as fans might want (better price points, more episodes per media, collectibles, etc) we should avoid supporting formats that we find bad so that the practice doesn't continue in the future. If everyone started buying Blurays with 2 episodes each on them like hotcakes, I highly doubt that a business would want to lower their profit margin by giving fans more episodes for less. I'm sure most of us remember how many times EVA was re-released stateside in the '2 episodes per tape/cd/dvd/whatever' format. But I think that if we find a format that is actually agreeable, we should support it. I've found the format that I like, which is online streaming, so I am supporting it. I wouldn't want to press my opinion on someone else and say that this should be the new standard, but I will implore that if you find something that is agreeable to your tastes to please support it. At least that way the industry can get a more accurate representation of what will and will not work in our particular market. We are not Japan, so we should consider alternative forms of distribution. |
ciddypoo said: But I think that if we find a format that is actually agreeable, we should support it. I've found the format that I like, which is online streaming, so I am supporting it. I wouldn't want to press my opinion on someone else and say that this should be the new standard, but I will implore that if you find something that is agreeable to your tastes to please support it. At least that way the industry can get a more accurate representation of what will and will not work in our particular market. We are not Japan, so we should consider alternative forms of distribution. I agree with this wholeheartedly (I don't want my last post to be misconstrued as "you're not a true anime fan if you don't shell out $75 for three episodes"). Money spent on a Crunchyroll (or whatever) subscription still makes its way to the industry. |
ciddypoo said: Absolutely. When I find 26 episode DVD boxes for 5-600 kr or movies for the same prices as most normal DVDs, I don't mind it at all. The only problem there is availability, as a lot of the ones I would buy aren't anywhere to be seen and are usually region blocked if I find them online. But I think that if we find a format that is actually agreeable, we should support it. I've found the format that I like, which is online streaming, so I am supporting it. I wouldn't want to press my opinion on someone else and say that this should be the new standard, but I will implore that if you find something that is agreeable to your tastes to please support it. And if there's region blocking present, I just take that as an implicit message that they don't want to sell their stuff to me and would prefer that I pirate instead, so that's what I do. |
And again, I'll put the blame on the industry. Get rid of all that pants-on-head retarded region blocking so I can order stuff from the US that's not available here for example. No way I'm going to buy those Utena dvd boxes when I probably won't be able to play them in most of my machines, and though I'm actually kind of tempted to buy the LoGH collection from Japan, the massive price coupled with region blocking and no subs doesn't exactly convince me. Region coding is bigger than the anime industry and not something the anime industry can circumvent, even if they wanted to. |
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Anime_Name said: Aye, I was more thinking the DVD and entertainment industry in general.Region coding is bigger than the anime industry and not something the anime industry can circumvent, even if they wanted to. |
Baman said: Anime_Name said: Aye, I was more thinking the DVD and entertainment industry in general.Region coding is bigger than the anime industry and not something the anime industry can circumvent, even if they wanted to. I assume its because of various licensing issues for various regions or something right? But I mean, if you're not planning on releasing in overseas just make it region free! PS3 games do it, so why not BD's as well? I've imported quite a few PS3 games because they work on my system, money they would not have seen had the games not been region free! |
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Just an idea You don't have to change your viewing habits to support the industry. You don’t have to sacrifice any quality. Keep getting your fansubs. Just... after downloading, if you liked it, pay something back. Think of it as buying something in fair exchange for what you've already seen. Liked that anime enough to give it an 8/10? Alright, buy something from the company for $20. Only liked it as much as a 6? Alright, buy a $10 thing. Can't find anything decent to buy for that cheap? Alright, watch 3 more seasons of anime and buy a $50 thing, paying back all at once. Don't worry about any of the kinks in what you buy (region blocks, official subs, etc.) because you're just paying them back for what you've already seen (and might rewatch later via fansubs), not actually for the product you're buying. And of course, there's no reason to pay much (or anything) for crappy anime. Feel free to only support the studios that create the good stuff. Fun fact: If we keep taking without giving, anime will deteriorate, and we'll get crappier quality and quantity every year, and our favorite studios will die. Jrittmayer said: Right, so you probably hate my suggestion above, but it's a middle-ground suggestion for peeps that rarely/never pay back anything... which is probably around 90%.Thats kind of the problem, the attitude of fans that they don't have to give the industry money for watching anime unless THEY feel like it..... It's like walking into a restauraunt, eating a pizza then not paying for it because it wasn't worth it. -Solo said: A charity is something where you give and don't get anything back. But if we download/stream and don't give anything back, aren't WE being the charity? It's not a charity if we give money because we get stuff from them (even if we get it indirectly through fansubs, remember who MADE it).This thread is making me look at anime companies like they are some type of charity that needs donations instead of an actual business. Baman said: Expanding on Jrittmayer's pizza example: Assume pizza is only made in Japan (anime). Sure, people try to imitate it worldwide, but it's nowhere near the same (American cartoons). But Japanese pizza shops suck: they're inefficient, they're expensive, but the pizza's so damn good that a bunch of fans gathered together to take that pizza and distribute it easily and efficiently worldwide (fansubbers). Fansubbers are not evil; they just want to share their love for Jap pizza worldwide, to exhume it from obscurity. Now fansubbers don't know how to make that pizza; they only know how to box it up ("translate") and distribute it, so if Jap shops fall... well, there goes Jap pizza. But because of people eating free pizza fansubs and not paying anything back, the quality and selection of Jap pizza deteriorates. In the end, we only resort to piracy because it is efficient and and cheap. We don't owe the industry anything at all So Baman, you're saying it's okay to get fansubbed pizza for free, and we don't owe the Jap pizza shops anything? You know, the people that actually MADE that pizza? Yes, the pizza those Jap shops directly sell have region-blocking and other nonsense, but it doesn’t matter: you've already eaten their pizza through fansubbers. Just buy from them for the sake of paying for what you already ate and might continue to eat via fansubs (rewatching). And of course, no need to pay the shops that sold crappy pizza much, or at all. Now pizza's easy to make. Imagine just how difficult, just how many people you need, just how much effort is required… to make one anime. |
FauxAznFeb 25, 2012 10:54 AM
| Like I said before the anime community is a joke and the fan subbers are way off in terms of translating utw is probably would be the best of the best if in all possible I wish they can sub every show but oh well. |
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| An alternative to the idea I proposed in the first paragraph of my previous post: For those really lacking in the money department, here's an excellent, minimal-effort suggestion that a friend posted elsewhere depicting how he currently supports anime outside of buying: IllConstruct said: ...whenever I grab the newest fansubbed episode of a series, I pop open that series' simulcast link in my bookmark tab and scrub through the stream, loading all of the ads in the background while my fansub downloads. That way, it's as if I watched the episode perfectly legally; there's practically no difference at all since all of the ad revenue is there. And I don't have to deal with grainy quality or questionable subs (though, honestly, the overall quality of the stream is perfectly acceptable). And the nice thing is, this requires so little additional effort; it's easy to remember since I only do it when I'm in the process of downloading the episode itself. Crunchyroll usually offers simulcasted episodes a week behind for non-subscribers, but that's no problem: I just load last week's episode while watching this week's. And pretty much every series is simulcasted! I've been doing this for about two years now, so all those views and ads must have added up to something measurable. Along the same lines, whenever I'm doing homework or something where my computer is idling, I will run (again, non-ad blocked) streams in the background for series' that were only available legally after I watched them. For instance, all of Cross Game is available on Hulu, so over the course of a semester or so, I managed to stream all 50 episodes while doing miscellaneous things. Again, I would argue that there's no discernible difference and even though my contribution is little, I still look at it as something meaningful. ...I do what I can. I'm a lazy bastard, so it's hard for me to be bothered to do anything, but I just can't ignore contributing to something I love so dearly when it's so damn easy. |
FauxAznFeb 26, 2012 6:42 PM
FauxAzn said: Just an idea You don't have to change your viewing habits to support the industry. You don’t have to sacrifice any quality. Keep getting your fansubs. Just... after downloading, if you liked it, pay something back. Think of it as buying something in fair exchange for what you've already seen. Liked that anime enough to give it an 8/10? Alright, buy something from the company for $20. Only liked it as much as a 6? Alright, buy a $10 thing. Can't find anything decent to buy for that cheap? Alright, watch 3 more seasons of anime and buy a $50 thing, paying back all at once. Don't worry about any of the kinks in what you buy (region blocks, official subs, etc.) because you're just paying them back for what you've already seen (and might rewatch later via fansubs), not actually for the product you're buying. And of course, there's no reason to pay much (or anything) for crappy anime. Feel free to only support the studios that create the good stuff. Fun fact: If we keep taking without giving, anime will deteriorate, and we'll get crappier quality and quantity every year, and our favorite studios will die. Jrittmayer said: Right, so you probably hate my suggestion above, but it's a middle-ground suggestion for peeps that rarely/never pay back anything... which is probably around 90%.Thats kind of the problem, the attitude of fans that they don't have to give the industry money for watching anime unless THEY feel like it..... It's like walking into a restauraunt, eating a pizza then not paying for it because it wasn't worth it. -Solo said: A charity is something where you give and don't get anything back. But if we download/stream and don't give anything back, aren't WE being the charity? It's not a charity if we give money because we get stuff from them (even if we get it indirectly through fansubs, remember who MADE it).This thread is making me look at anime companies like they are some type of charity that needs donations instead of an actual business. Baman said: Expanding on Jrittmayer's pizza example: Assume pizza is only made in Japan (anime). Sure, people try to imitate it worldwide, but it's nowhere near the same (American cartoons). But Japanese pizza shops suck: they're inefficient, they're expensive, but the pizza's so damn good that a bunch of fans gathered together to take that pizza and distribute it easily and efficiently worldwide (fansubbers). Fansubbers are not evil; they just want to share their love for Jap pizza worldwide, to exhume it from obscurity. Now fansubbers don't know how to make that pizza; they only know how to box it up ("translate") and distribute it, so if Jap shops fall... well, there goes Jap pizza. But because of people eating free pizza fansubs and not paying anything back, the quality and selection of Jap pizza deteriorates. In the end, we only resort to piracy because it is efficient and and cheap. We don't owe the industry anything at all So Baman, you're saying it's okay to get fansubbed pizza for free, and we don't owe the Jap pizza shops anything? You know, the people that actually MADE that pizza? Yes, the pizza those Jap shops directly sell have region-blocking and other nonsense, but it doesn’t matter: you've already eaten their pizza through fansubbers. Just buy from them for the sake of paying for what you already ate and might continue to eat via fansubs (rewatching). And of course, no need to pay the shops that sold crappy pizza much, or at all. Now pizza's easy to make. Imagine just how difficult, just how many people you need, just how much effort is required… to make one anime. I love how much you expanded on that pizza metaphor. I got a good laugh out of that XD As to your idea, I think its an interesting way of approaching it. |
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| With most of the main dubbing companies shutting down and Funimation recycling voice actors over and over and over. Ya id say its dying. |
| lol @ img bbcode not working, mal is such a great site |
| The R1 industry won't die anytime soon, but it will be inevitable they will eventually. We will still have streaming sites like Crunchyroll and Niconico to satisfy our anime needs legally when the rest of the companies collapse. Although I'd rather own something I love physically so I won't have to worry about buffer problems or expired streams, but I'm not paying no $400~$800 for just 13-26 episodes unless I absolutely loved it like future Code Geass and Gundam series which is probably going to be the only anime series I would pay that much for if they are subbed properly. |
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character lol! xD" |
| I don't really buy anime, but I do buy anime merchandise, like official shirts and figures. Does that count? |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
-Solo said: I don't really buy anime, but I do buy anime merchandise, like official shirts and figures. Does that count? Of course it does! Merchandise supports the industry just as much as (if not, more than) buying physical media. Point is, buying stuff, period, will help. Well, just so long as they're not bootlegs. |
| well, I also do buy merchandise and manga, but I see that Im not doing enough. Ill take his advice and check out crunchyroll every now and then.. Id really love to buy more anime, but as mentioned before, the prices are insane. |
FauxAzn said: But still, the inefficiency in the distribution is the industry's fault, not ours. So Baman, you're saying it's okay to get fansubbed pizza for free, and we don't owe the Jap pizza shops anything? You know, the people that actually MADE that pizza? Yes, the pizza those Jap shops directly sell have region-blocking and other nonsense, but it doesn’t matter: you've already eaten their pizza through fansubbers. Just buy from them for the sake of paying for what you already ate and might continue to eat via fansubs (rewatching). And of course, no need to pay the shops that sold crappy pizza much, or at all. And sure, I probably would think like you describe if this pizza was the alpharius-omegon of entertainment, but it isn't. The anime industry produce some gems now and then but like any other entertainment industry, the most is crud hardly worth watching and certainly not worth paying for. So even if I fuel the industry, who's to say that money will contribute to making more stuff that I enjoy? Going by the pizza analogy, it would be like enjoying two out of fifty pizzas on the menu (and not knowing exactly when they even bothered making them) and then throwing money into the shop in the hopes of seeing another good one coming along. Sure, I would support an ongoing series or franchise, I've already bought most of GiTS, and if say, Game of Thrones started relying on DVD sales to stay afloat, I'd definitely buy the boxes to ensure the next seasons would be produced. But this is still a bit different than just supporting the industry no matter what it produce, indeed, the latter would only be detrimental to the overall quality of the products. |
Baman said: FauxAzn said: But still, the inefficiency in the distribution is the industry's fault, not ours. So Baman, you're saying it's okay to get fansubbed pizza for free, and we don't owe the Jap pizza shops anything? You know, the people that actually MADE that pizza? Yes, the pizza those Jap shops directly sell have region-blocking and other nonsense, but it doesn’t matter: you've already eaten their pizza through fansubbers. Just buy from them for the sake of paying for what you already ate and might continue to eat via fansubs (rewatching). And of course, no need to pay the shops that sold crappy pizza much, or at all. And sure, I probably would think like you describe if this pizza was the alpharius-omegon of entertainment, but it isn't. The anime industry produce some gems now and then but like any other entertainment industry, the most is crud hardly worth watching and certainly not worth paying for. So even if I fuel the industry, who's to say that money will contribute to making more stuff that I enjoy? Going by the pizza analogy, it would be like enjoying two out of fifty pizzas on the menu (and not knowing exactly when they even bothered making them) and then throwing money into the shop in the hopes of seeing another good one coming along. Sure, I would support an ongoing series or franchise, I've already bought most of GiTS, and if say, Game of Thrones started relying on DVD sales to stay afloat, I'd definitely buy the boxes to ensure the next seasons would be produced. But this is still a bit different than just supporting the industry no matter what it produce, indeed, the latter would only be detrimental to the overall quality of the products. Totally off topic but Game of Thrones comes out on Bluray next week :D Only $35 on amazon ;) |
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Baman said: Of course. There’s no point in throwing money at the industry haphazardly, and as you say, while it might help quantity, it would hurt overall quality. I guess I wasn’t clear enough with my suggestion above, but I meant only (or mostly) supporting the stuff you liked. Buying merch or media for the anime you just enjoyed, and supporting the studio that produced it. Not paying for all 50 pizza boxes.But this is still a bit different than just supporting the industry no matter what it produce, indeed, the latter would only be detrimental to the overall quality of the products. Of course there’s no guarantee that our money will result in more good stuff, but the only other alternative of not paying anything only leads to the demise of one of our favorite molds of entertainment. Otherwise, if you buy from a studio in thanks for that awesome title you just saw, that studio stays in business. And when it’s time for them to make more anime, they will look at which titles were most profitable. With more people paying back for stuff they downloaded & enjoyed: the artistic, the original, the tear-jerking, the mind-bending, the strong or unique characters, the epic stories… or whatever we end up paying most for, studios will create more with all that in mind. This way, overall quality and quantity increases. Again, my suggestion was to pay after, not before, which solves many of the problems expressed in this thread. Anime’s too expensive / I’m too poor? Fine, set your own price. Streaming sites have shit quality and physical media comes with crap subs or region blocking? Fine, watch via fansubs, but purchase stuff for the ones you enjoyed, possibly in proportion to your enjoyment. But please, don't simply take the blue pill. "But I'm just one person! Surely whatever I contribute won't help THAT much" How much money would it be if everyone who thought this way pitched in even a dollar per series? This isn't American voting where your one vote barely counts (considering the Electoral College). And unlike movies, this isn't some popular, gazillion dollar industry we're talking about here. Anime is still a niche pleasure, and our support is a HUGE buttress. |
FauxAznFeb 29, 2012 2:13 PM
| I pay for Crunchyroll, and I usually buy the few DVD's that are released here in the middle of nowhere, SO I am not losing my sleep. |
shiroto said: No really, you are doing more than enough, please don't feel pressured to do more. This thread is mostly for those who just plain ignore and neglect, not for awesome people like you, shiroto. Again, if all the naysayers pitched in even a dollar per series...well, I also do buy merchandise and manga, but I see that Im not doing enough. Ill take his advice and check out crunchyroll every now and then.. Id really love to buy more anime, but as mentioned before, the prices are insane. Jrittmayer said: Hah, yeah, I was having a bit too much fun with it and consciously went overboard. And like a song that never leaves your head, my stomach ended up ordering some stuffed crust afterwards. Almost literally: I'm sure the guy on the other end heard some rumbling.I love how much you expanded on that pizza metaphor. I got a good laugh out of that XD |
FauxAznMar 1, 2012 8:23 AM
| interesting topic, though many people seem to be forgetting a small detail...if you really want to contribute...order it straight from Japan..I do...Im not supporting greedy bastards who overprice their imports just because there are only few distributions active outside Japan. True ordering something straight from the source is expensive but guess once or twice per year will suffice for now. I don't mean it like every corporation importing anime is bad, but I smell something fishy behind the whole concept, I know that for anime culture to expand you need overseas distribution, but that's business...and as we all know business is damn tough battlefield not everytime a dream come true. |
kain361Mar 1, 2012 8:47 AM
| Great video great post. Unfortunately I'm poor and I know no friends that watches anime, of course I can spread online but I'm lazy, I'm sorry, but I REALLY appreciate other people's efforts. |
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IllConstruct said: -Solo said: I don't really buy anime, but I do buy anime merchandise, like official shirts and figures. Does that count? Of course it does! Merchandise supports the industry just as much as (if not, more than) buying physical media. Point is, buying stuff, period, will help. Well, just so long as they're not bootlegs. Nope you're wrong. 90% of the anime merch is from japanese companies Especially figures. region 1 anime dvds are from companies over here. |
| lol @ img bbcode not working, mal is such a great site |
kain361 said: interesting topic, though many people seem to be forgetting a small detail...if you really want to contribute...order it straight from Japan..I do...Im not supporting greedy bastards who overprice their imports just because there are only few distributions active outside Japan. True ordering something straight from the source is expensive but guess once or twice per year will suffice for now. I don't mean it like every corporation importing anime is bad, but I smell something fishy behind the whole concept, I know that for anime culture to expand you need overseas distribution, but that's business...and as we all know business is damn tough battlefield not everytime a dream come true. Actually, it seems to me that buying a 200$ - 400$ DVD set from Japan will cost a lot more than a 70$ set from FUNi (for example), and that's the suggested retail price, they're even lower when you actually do buy them. Aniplex decided to put out a 400$ import of Fate/Zero but even that is actually less than the price in Japan. As for me, I buy everything I watch, while I know it helps the industry I can't really claim I do it for noble reasons. I just prefer to own the physical media. |
| My reviews of Code Geass, my favorite series: Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 My Anime Viewing Blog Part I |
| I took both pills simultaneously, had a terrible diarrhea for the rest of the day. :( |
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xxangelchanxx said: IllConstruct said: -Solo said: I don't really buy anime, but I do buy anime merchandise, like official shirts and figures. Does that count? Of course it does! Merchandise supports the industry just as much as (if not, more than) buying physical media. Point is, buying stuff, period, will help. Well, just so long as they're not bootlegs. Nope you're wrong. 90% of the anime merch is from japanese companies Especially figures. region 1 anime dvds are from companies over here. When I said 'the industry', I meant the entire industry. It doesn't matter which side of the pond profits just as long as someone is making that money. And yes, it supports the Japanese industry much more directly, which is what fans who are kind of 'meh' towards the Western market want anyway: to support their creators in as a direct a method as they can. So yes, buy all the things! |
IllConstruct said: When I said 'the industry', I meant the entire industry. It doesn't matter which side of the pond profits just as long as someone is making that money. And yes, it supports the Japanese industry much more directly, which is what fans who are kind of 'meh' towards the Western market want anyway: to support their creators in as a direct a method as they can. So yes, buy all the things! Who cares what 'industry' you are talking about? The topic is the death of the American industry, not the Japanese one. The Japanese one might be down 10 percent or so on the whole but many companies are still making tons of money from TV, videos, toys, games, figures, and all the other stuff. American distributors only have either manga or anime sales to make their money off of. Those sales are pretty bad considering manga has to compete against comic books and anime has to compete against shows that can actually get on TV to advertise the video releases. |
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| Almost had me convinced for a moment to buy more anime. This situation is very interesting though, whether the industry will become stronger or weaker from this experience will be a valuable lesson to learn from. |
Arch-Defender said: Actually it costs more money here than in Japan. Right now to import Fate/Zero from Amazon Japan it's about $337 (Excluding international shipping costs.). Back in December it was like $355. Rightstuf's price is $370 ($380 for international customers.), so its $33 more to order it from Rightstuf than to import it from Amazon Japan. The exchange rate just keeps getting better right now. The second Blu-ray box may cost much less as Aniplex and Rightstuf set the price around what the Amazon Japan discount is.Aniplex decided to put out a 400$ import of Fate/Zero but even that is actually less than the price in Japan. Anyway...He does know most of his stuff, but on his topic with the Japanese industry, that industry is still doing well. They can survive without foreign sales (As it's just gravy.). You'd be shocked at how little American sales for example contribute to them. Without us, it would shrink, but stay around. Also, found the article he cited for a decrease in revenue. It's from 2010, so it doesn't really reflect how it's doing now. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-08-19/research-firm/anime-studios-revenues-down-for-2nd-year Take a look at this (Note that this includes also stuff that we in the West don't refer to as anime such as Disney films.). http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-09-18/report/domestic/intl-animation-market-in-japan-grew-5.8-percent-in-10 Then there's this. The industry there now continues to get better, especially with how 2011 was a record-breaking year. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-07-21/anime-makes-up-57-percent-of-blu-ray-sales-in-japan-in-1st-half-of-2011 As of like December, I now frequently look at sales statistics, and not that many shows are under the breaking even line (You need to sell like 3,000 copies of each volume at Japanese prices to break even on an anime at the usual production costs of $100,000-$200,000 per episode (As of 2009, probably higher now.).). Every season there's always going to be the winners and (Money) losers, but that's how things go. Take a look around at how many volume 1's sold. http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showpost.php?p=1972151&postcount=5 Also a post on how some titles from this season are expected to sell. http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showpost.php?p=1977730&postcount=217 So in conclusion, while anime companies in Japan aren't swimming in money (Except maybe Shaft and Aniplex with how Madoka Magica and Bakemonogatari have performed, and soon Nisemonogatari.), it's doing quite well. Though the part of TV is true. For years, for the vast majority of shows, there is no ad revenue to speak of. Those shows usually are in debt by the time the show is done airing until the BD's/DVD's come out. Goes to show how anime in general is a niche market in Japan. As for the Western industry, yeah it's definitely dying. A 35% drop in sales between 2009 and 2010, not a good sign at all. [url]http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-04-15/america-2009-anime-market-pegged-at-us$2.741-billion[/url] When JETRO puts out a new report in 2013 (They do it every two years.), I wonder how things will have changed. I wonder how much Aniplex USA's imports have affected the market's revenue. |
BigOnAnimeMar 2, 2012 11:21 PM
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Anime_Name said: Who cares what 'industry' you are talking about? The topic is the death of the American industry, not the Japanese one. The Japanese one might be down 10 percent or so on the whole but many companies are still making tons of money from TV, videos, toys, games, figures, and all the other stuff. American distributors only have either manga or anime sales to make their money off of. Those sales are pretty bad considering manga has to compete against comic books and anime has to compete against shows that can actually get on TV to advertise the video releases. Tons of money? Maybe relative to the Western market, but not anywhere near enough to make any tangible progess; the industry has been stagnant for awhile now. I'll admit that it's highly cyclical, so this may be a natural period of ebb and flow, but there's no hurt in pointing out that it's stagnant NOW, in spite of whether or not it will potentially pick back up later. Yes, the Western market is in more need of money, but why would I stop people who actually want to contribute and love their merch? Again, someone's making money and that's significant in this very niche market. The point is to contribute in whatever way you feel is best for you. When the alternative is to walk down that oh-so-easily-traversable path of not contributing at all like so many do, I'd be glad to see people give something rather than the typical apathetic shoulder-shrug. Again, just the fact that that question about merch was even asked in the first place proves that some people just don't know enough, which shows the importance of raising awareness. And yeah, okay, true, I'd love to see all of that merch income diverted to the Western market instead. :P |
IllConstructMar 3, 2012 2:15 AM
| I'd start buying more Anime again but majority of what is released here is stuff I am really not interested in buying, such as HOTD. Release all Natsume Yuujinchou here, and I'd happily throw my money at them. |
| Point taken. Some things: - Pizza analogy was hilarious but went too far, that it became a poor analogy fast. Actually, it was a poor analogy but I get what you mean. -Anime industry is definitely not dying. That is an exaggeration. Japanese animation industry will have to be faced with a massive dwindling number of otakus before that happens or Japanese people actually not watching animation on their telly. When numerous shutdowns of Japanese animation studios happen then I would start thinking that perhaps it is dying. Somehow I get the feeling that the Japanese just plainly love their animations. -With the appeal, it does seem more like charity but you are right. When you have the resources, go for the ones you want. Just take note : the target audience are mostly kids/students - therefore no jobs, no money. Ask Daddy? Meh-be. -The American companies engaged in bringing anime ARE dwindling in numbers. They are in a business with a niche audience. Business rules/factors abide. That will always be the thing with any business. Put out 50 crappy pizzas...er, I mean anime and the 7 (optimistic estimate) good ones would not float that anime boat even if the supporters buy like crazy. The alternative ways to give back are interesting. I concur. I'm sold. I will start at once. |
| ANN's The Anime Economy should help give people an idea of how fragile this market is (And also this can help maybe finally get rid of the "Anime is extremely overpriced!" mentality.). http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-05 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-07 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-09 Yeah, it's not dying, but considering it's a niche market both here (Here in North America it definitely is dying.) and in Japan, it can die much easier than something like video games which are mainstream. |
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| Interesting reads. Thanks for posting. |
BigOnAnime said: ANN's The Anime Economy should help give people an idea of how fragile this market is (And also this can help maybe finally get rid of the "Anime is extremely overpriced!" mentality.). http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-05 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-07 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-09 Yeah, it's not dying, but considering it's a niche market both here (Here in North America it definitely is dying.) and in Japan, it can die much easier than something like video games which are mainstream. Anime is not considered niche in Japan because it is one of the most profitable entertainment options there(All of which are pricey but that matches the cost of living in Japan). It's not in danger of dying there nor will it die easily. |
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| i see a lot of posts on this with people coming up with excuses to why they did not buy their shows... neither do i, but if you notice what he mentioned in the video is that you dont actually have to buy anything to support the anime =/ wonderful sites like hulu exist so that you can watch it free and the anime company can still get paid *and its all thanx to advertising... there i said it... advertising isa good thing* |
maladox said: Thanks for pointing that out. I guess the alternative solutions I posted were more for those (like me) who deplore the quality and selection of online streams, in comparison to downloaded fansubs. Even the rare HD stream doesn't seem half as crisp as a downloaded 720p/1080p.i see a lot of posts on this with people coming up with excuses to why they did not buy their shows... neither do i, but if you notice what he mentioned in the video is that you dont actually have to buy anything to support the anime =/ wonderful sites like hulu exist so that you can watch it free and the anime company can still get paid *and its all thanx to advertising... there i said it... advertising isa good thing* |
| In my city there isnt a lot of anime to buy. The only ones are either movies, ovas or just pokemon ep. I would buy an anime that i liked if there was any. |
| http://myanimelist.net/animelist/LuckyMango http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/LuckyMango Feel free to comment on my profile for anime recommendations. Ill try my best to help! Remember don't message me. Comment! |
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