Hunter x Hunter (2011) Episode 20 Discussion

x5exotic said:


Umm, no? Sure it's the same franchise. But in no way is the new version obliged to be exactly like the original. This thread discusses how good this episode was as a standalone product and/or as an adaptation of the manga.
You want to compare the versions. Absolutely, but do it on a thread that doesn't read "DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS EPISODE" then you can say it's a "bad argument". Thankyouverymuch.

PS: When I say don't compare it's not necessarily someone bashing the new one for the sake of the old one, it could be the other way around too. Hence my mock comment that made "some guy" here butthurt >.>



@Stormgoddess


I'm sorry wasn't it you that felt the need to check my channel to see what other animes I watch in order to brag about how many animes you watched?
And wasn't it you that was talking like your comments were facts? Yep it was :)
So, who's trolling here?
I never praised this anime this much(unless you STILL don't see the sarcasm in my previous comment), where did you get that? your way of repeating the word "troll" shows how insecure you are when it comes to being called that yourself. Just because you call someone a troll doesn't make your side of the argument stronger, Mr. Facts.

Sincerely, a guy who doesn't have to watch tons of pointless anime in order to have an opinion and doesn't need to make it a fact to feel good about himself. :D

Kamuki said:


It would be fine if you are actually discussing Hunter x Hunter 2011 and not bashing it like you claim to not be doing. At the very least don't make people think you are by posting ridicule like this.

"they're finally starting to learn how to make an anime"

Solkiskey said:


Comparing how this episode was done in the 1999 version to the 2011 version is essentially discussing about the episode. By your logic, we wouldn't be allowed to say that the adaptaton is faithful nor compare this material to its adaptation, the manga.

It's not because the show has different art and direction that they shouldn't be compared, in fact, they should. If they were the same, then it'd be kinda pointless and I would agree with you. Especially since they're the same series with 2011 remake being more faithful to the manga since the manga wasn't that far into the story back then in 1999. Essentially, we're discussing about how the 2011 version is progressing compared to 1999's progression, which is perfectly fine.

Mephz said:
I did not like that they skipped most of the fights like that. I wanted to see Hisoka vs Kurapika for example, especially most of the dialogue from the manga. It was also supposed to be the first fight, not Gon's fight. So I really hated the first half of this episode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5aDPg-NrSA&feature=related

Second part was done well though, no complains about Illumi really. Overall decent.

Mephz said:
I did not like that they skipped most of the fights like that. I wanted to see Hisoka vs Kurapika for example, especially most of the dialogue from the manga. It was also supposed to be the first fight, not Gon's fight. So I really hated the first half of this episode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5aDPg-NrSA&feature=related

noonealive said:


Actually the next arc is sort of fun, but the arc right after is really going to set the pace for York shin.

Mephz said:
well the dialogue I was especially referring to was what Satoshi said about Gon's father. They skipped that. I checked the manga and it's indeed there. I was clearly mistaken about the order of the fights though, recalled wrongly.

That does not mean I like it though, imo 1999 anime version > the manga in this case.

ankifeather said:


If you look in the preview for the next episode, you can see Satoz and Gon continuing their conversation, so it is obvious the animators moved Satoshi's talk about Ging to the next episode because showing it this episode would mean they have to end in the middle of Killua's fight which would be a bad place to end.

ankifeather said:


If you look in the preview for the next episode, you can see Satoz and Gon continuing their conversation, so it is obvious the animators moved Satoshi's talk about Ging to the next episode because showing it this episode would mean they have to end in the middle of Killua's fight which would be a bad place to end.

Solkiskey said:


That's a bad argument. While Naruto and Bleach are completely unrelated to HxH 2011, HxH 1999 is part of the same franchise, thus, it is normal to hear people comparing the new version to the older version.

Ollyx2OxenFree said:


This


Although I hate when people compare and complain about how "bad" this version is compared to the original one, it's going to happen. I've had very little complaints from this version even though the original was cool because of the darker atmosphere and added content because I still love this version. It's the highlight, as far as anime goes, for my week. We should focus more on this version but of course hunter x hunter veterans are going to compare/complain.

DivineTrinity said:
Finally they had a great tone for one of these episodes. One of the reasons why I love HxH so much. :D All my worries are all wash away and now I just have to sit back and wait for the arcs I can't wait to be animated now to come already.

Is the show really not airing the upcoming week? The way they ended the episode actually got to me. I really want to see the next episode and a week break will just be grueling to me now. :(

noonealive said:


Yeah, there is no episode next week because it's a Japanese holiday during that time. So sadly, we have to wait 2 whole weeks. =[]

ankifeather said:

Actually its nothing to do with the holiday, other animes on that day are still broadcasting

It's because NTV got the rights to live broadcast a Japan Marathon race and te race is at the time when HxH is usually shown

x5exotic said:
He was being manipulated, where is the rush in that? He was a bit jealous...what do you want him to do? Attack Gon, leave town and have all his buddies try to retrieve him? Fail and than spend the next 250 episodes trying to bring him back from the dark side? He just thought he should've been higher, they didn't say that he held a grude or anything, and then comes Illumi and does what we see.

punkvolume1 said:
After weeks of enduring the drastic changes from the 1999 version, I finally decided to drop this. I don't want to bitch about it but I just want to point out that this version is really half-assed IMHO, BGM that doesn't fit the scenes, art that is too clean that made it look plain, and cutting scenes from the previous version (I am not really sure if those were fillers, but still, why remove them if they make the anime better?). I guess the main reason I'm dropping this show is the voicing for Illumi which made him sound haughty rather than dark (Yes, I'm an Illumi fan).

AriSky said:

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, given what's to come. I know you have a grudge against those of us who compare the different versions of the series, and you're fully within your right to do so, just as I am within my right to critique.

As for your questions, no, I don't expect Killua to do any of those things. I also didn't expect him to waffle so quickly regarding Gon. What was presented in this version of the series wasn't convincing as to what happened. The character development didn't flow. So many people find it difficult to separate what they know is supposed to happen from what does happen and hence how to feel about individual versions. I'm judging this series by itself and then comparing it to the other versions.

And it's very easy to rush a manipulation. You wouldn't accept it if someone walked up to Leorio out of the blue and told him they had Pietoro and would return him if Leorio became their slave. Yes, there's motivation there, but it needs more than that simple statement. You'd want to know what's going through Leorio's head. How he deliberates. I think what was missing from this version was more insight into Killua's head. The viewer wasn't privvy to even the slightest bit of decision-making that led to his responses to Illumi. There didn't seem to be any lingering emotion that would have led to the murder of Bodoro. Perhaps this came from the softening of Illumi's art.

There's nothing wrong with any of those things on their own, but together they don't add up. And that's the way I see it.

AriSky said:
I think what was missing from this version was more insight into Killua's head. The viewer wasn't privvy to even the slightest bit of decision-making that led to his responses to Illumi. There didn't seem to be any lingering emotion that would have led to the murder of Bodoro. Perhaps this came from the softening of Illumi's art.

Toto_y_Moi said:


To me, it makes little sense to criticize the newer version--especially when it's been a very great adaptation of the manga (it's ratings and merchandising push show how much Japan is enjoying the show) and conveying everything Togashi intended to do with his manga.

ankifeather said:
HunterxHunter 2011 ratings is around 3-5%, which is only average at best.
Its DVD sales, however, have been absymal, which leaves me worried about its future.

ankifeather said:
While its true this adaptation faithfully follows the dialogue and scenes in the manga, that doesn't mean it should escape criticism since it can't follow elements that's not in the manga ie BGM, colour, lighting and animated action. You dont have to watch the 1999 version or even read the manga to evaluate whether the BGM or lighting fits the events. If I am watching an anime where people are dying left and right, I would find bright lighting and cheerful music jarring, and that is a valid criticism on its own without anything to do with the 1999 version.

Even the director and music director admits in interviews they took a 'for kids' orientation for HxH and have received criticisms about the overly playful music and tone, and how they're considering changing the atmosphere in future arcs. It's great they are actually listening to criticisms and you can tell in this episode that they're adding in darker music and blood. People criticise because they actually care about this show and want to see it do good, and it leads to improvements if the animators take them into consideration.

Luminaire said:
I don't want to get into any argument with anyone but I like to come on here and read others reaction to THIS episode and seeing only crap related to the 1999 version and how it's superior blows. I haven't seen the 1999 version and I probably never will, so reading all this crap about it bores me to death. I want to know the reaction of THIS episode, not THIS episode compared to another.

I'm not trying to get between anyone but seriously, 5 pages worth guys? I've got to agree with the guy who said make another thread about comparison. I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near it and all the raging about voices/BGM/lighting/whatever can go in there. However, from a 2011 viewer only, I found this episode to be amazing.

Luminaire said:
I don't want to get into any argument with anyone but I like to come on here and read others reaction to THIS episode and seeing only crap related to the 1999 version and how it's superior blows. I haven't seen the 1999 version and I probably never will, so reading all this crap about it bores me to death. I want to know the reaction of THIS episode, not THIS episode compared to another.

I'm not trying to get between anyone but seriously, 5 pages worth guys? I've got to agree with the guy who said make another thread about comparison. I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near it and all the raging about voices/BGM/lighting/whatever can go in there. However, from a 2011 viewer only, I found this episode to be amazing.

Mephz said:


we don't really care what you want. If you don't want the old series compared to the new one, don't read these threads then. It will happen everytime until greed island arc is over.

Toto_y_Moi said:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-02-04/japanese-animation-tv-ranking-january-23-29

It typically reaches the top 10. I don't think it has fallen below a 3.8% since the series first hit 4%. That means it's doing better than literally every other anime series that started in the Fall and Winter. Though I don't know anything about the DVD sales.


I think you misconstrued the point of that interview. I was the one who translated it, so let me clarify: The director said that the adaptation would be aimed towards children, but this doesn't mean that he was admitting that the older version wasn't. On the contrary--it's very easy to tell that the 1999 series was aimed towards the same audience. Pay attention to the filler in the first 44 episodes. The dialogue is often much more childish than anything you'd find in the Hunter x Hunter manga (and consequently, the 2011 anime series).

And due to technological limitations in animation at the time, fans have misconstrued dark the lighting in the 1999 series to be "a mature, artistic choice" instead of an accident. Look at the colors the series was animated with on cels--the colors are clearly much more vibrant than they are in the series. This is because the 1999 series was animated by photographing these plastic cel sheets; animated series (prior to the advent of digital animation) used to all be done this way and look differently from the creator's intent. You can see examples of this just by looking at cels of any traditionally animated anime series from the same time period.

What the 1999 series ended up being was a series that found an older audience as it continued. It started getting more fans as the series progressed into the the Yorknew City arc. Another common misconception of Hunter x Hunter is that it's a dark series from the beginning. This is a mistake that the director of the 2011 series openly acknowledges. Hunter x Hunter isn't a show that starts off somber and melancholy and dark, but rather one that becomes these things in the middle of its first major arc. It's supposed to be "fun"--look at Togashi's chapter cover pages and volume covers in the beginning of the series: they're cutesy and "childish." Even the art in the manga could be considered as such. But the tone of the series itself changes once Gon sets out into the real world. Despite Togashi's propensity to draw "cute" characters, they often do very serious and grave things. The action is brutal and violent.

The director, Kazuhiro Furuhashi, excels at directing dark works. If you've seen Rurouni Kenshin before, he is to thank for the direction in those fantastic OVAs and the Kyoto arc. However, the manga hadn't progressed very far when he began to helm HxH. I believe that the Heavens Arena arc was close to conclusion. It was definitely still a kid's show (the first 40 episodes or so are almost entirely bloodless), but started pointing towards something darker. Furuhashi thought that Hunter x Hunter had potential and he wanted to take the series in a direction he felt was even deeper than what he had thus far read in the manga.

He was interested in characters like Mito and her conflict in letting Gon go, so he created his own backstory for her (which despite how great it is, unfortunately ended up majorly conflicting with the creator's own). Furuhashi loved Gon's struggle to find his father and wanted to explore what drove him. He saw Killua as a character on the verge of either traveling to the "dark side" and doing "bad" things (ergo, killing) or healing. He was interested in Kurapika's conquest for revenge conflicting with his personal morality and suggests that the character may have even been indoctrinated by his own clan. And Furuhashi wanted to emphasize friendship--the main characters are already all close friends in the 1999 series after episode 7. These were all off-base from the ways in which Togashi wanted to develop his characters; surprisingly ends up focusing on the protagonists' psychologies in a much more unconventional way.

This is not necessarily bad or childish, but it does indicate that Furuhashi didn't recognize the creator's own intent. He doesn't realize his mistake until after the manga's content actually gets dark, at which point he becomes unconcerned with adding a significant amount of his own filler material (it still exists, though in a much more subdued and fitting manner than in the first arc) and solely attempting to enhance the HxH experience through artistry.

Fun Fact: Masashi Kishimoto, creator of Naruto, in particular seems to been influenced largely by the first Hunter x Hunter anime series (the manga as well, though to a lesser extent). This is visible because not only has Kishimoto stated his influences overtly, but also because many of the themes present only in the 1999 animated series make very similar appearances in his own work.

The only people criticizing the tone of the 2011 series are the ones who are either ignorant to the tone of the manga or those who prefer the 1999 series' as the definitive Hunter x Hunter--even more definitive than the manga upon which the show was based. As far as the BGM goes, it has been extremely apt and fitting for a majority of the scenes. Despite liking the old series' soundtrack, I have rarely found the 2011 series' score to be out of place.

mrsticky005 said:
The problem with some of the 1999 fans is that they got things backwards.

They think this 2011 version fails to live up to the 1999 version.

No. No. No.

The 1999 version is the one that fails to stay true to the manga.

It doesn't matter which you LIKE better. That's just your opinion.
But the fact remains, the 2011 version IS more true to the manga.

There are of course parts in the 2011 that differ from the manga
but most of them are due to censoring which was also in the early
episodes of the 1999 version and in case you didn't notice the
2011 version has eased up on the censoring. It probably won't
be as violent as the manga is but neither was the 1999 version...
EVEN at it's most violent the 1999 is not as violent as the manga.

Seriously...the manga is BRUTAL.

But the point still stands that the 2011 version is more true to the manga.
People often complain about the color scheme and the background music
and I imagine many of these people are fans of the 1999 version.
However it is important to remember that the color scheme and music
is what the 1999 director interpreted Hunter x Hunter as.
The 2011 version is simply a different interpretation of color scheme
and music and neither one is necessarily right or wrong. Again,
it's how the director interprets it. Remember folks that manga
is in black and white and without sound.

If you don't get all that then at least get this. This 2011 version was never
meant to be the 1999 version. If you want the 1999 version then watch that.
The 2011 version is meant to be like the manga. So if you must complain,
complain when it fails to live up to the manga. That's what I do.
But thankfully I actually don't have to do it often.

as for the episode itself...

LOVED IT.

scytheboy13 said:
I loved the episode, but did they actually show all the fights in the manga out of curiosity? Or was Gon's "fight" the only one they showed?

Liinah said:
Why the hell did Leorio and Bodoro even fight if they were already qualified? Doesn't make sense, Killua had lost his second chance already, the death of Bodoro could have been avoided.

Kamuki said:

The tournament moves the loser upward when they lose as I'm sure you noticed. Killua did indeed lose twice but he still has another chance. According to the bracket that is.

SeraSera said:

You only compare anime ratings of the same timeslot and channel type to tell whether its good. Many anime airs on late-night timeslot or TX which is not nationally broadcasted like HxH's NTV, but in certain cities only. For these animes, DVD/merchandising sale matters more than ratings, as it will rarely be above 2%. Anime of similar timeslot/channel type to HxH are Onepiece and Toriko which are currently 9-11% and 6-8% respectively. Of course these two have been around longer so their ratings are higher, which is why I didn't say HxH ratings are bad , but average. But NTV has never shown anime in the Hxh timeslot before,while previous variety show can gain a 7+% rating easily, so unless HxH grow to 7% rating by the end of the scheduled 45+ episode, NTV may very well return to variety shows. There's still hope to achieve that since the 1999 version on Fuji averaged 9% ratings.

The by age/gender breakdown ratings of HxH shows that the majority of HxH viewers are 35+ yr old males (4.3 rating), and is weakest in the "Kid"( 1.2 rating) and "20-34 yr-old Male" (0.4 rating) categories. Thus, Madhouse attempt to appeal to Kids isn't quite working yet, have to do something about the 20-34 yr old as they are big market for DVD and currently are relying on the older audience, who unfortunately will be burdened by their memories of the 1999 version.

As you put it yourself, Togashi draws cute characters that do brutal things, and from the first exam there are people dying with heads chopped off and blood flying everywhere. So to me the manga started straight off with 'cute' characters in a brutal and dangerous world already, not after the exam. The only 'fun' exam was the 2nd exam,while the remaining exam all have serious situations. Maintaining Togashi's 'cutesy' design and using a darker tone don't conflict at all, Magica Madoka is a good example of how the two can blend in perfectly. I don't expect the tone to be as sombre and melancholy as the 1999 version, but nor do I expect it to be as cheerful as the 2011 version. My personal interpretation of the manga lies somewhere in between, but just because I don't exactly agree with the tone of the 2011 version doesn't mean I am ignorant of the tone of the manga (which I have read no less than 5 times already). Like i said in my earlier post, I like the darker tone of this episode and hope it keeps up.