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May 9, 2008 11:45 AM

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AnimusNathan said:
Warll said:

Guess what that is not how it works. Anything is legal until a law says it is not, same goes for your rights. So please you show me the law, Canadian no duh, which contradicts what I said.


Ok...actually, you're right. BUT IT STILL ISNT LEGAL IN THE US OR AUSTRALIA OR THE EUROPEAN UNION.


Watching streams is legal because the uploader is solely responsible. You'd know that if you read a streaming site's terms of service. You are wrong. Get over it.
May 9, 2008 11:46 AM
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Flame_Haze said:
Yes it is legal in the U.S. to watch streams. I can't speak for other countries.


No streaming is the same as downloading. I don't care if I look like an idiot over the Canada thing, I'm still definitely sure it's illegal in the US too pirate.

May 9, 2008 11:47 AM
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Shiranai said:


Watching streams is legal because the uploader is solely responsible. You'd know that if you read a streaming site's terms of service. You are wrong. Get over it.


Yea the upload is the responsibility of the uploader, not Youtube or Crunchyroll. However you're still viewing it illegally. You tell me too know what I'm talking about, and yet you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

May 9, 2008 11:47 AM
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Shiranai said:


Watching streams is legal because the uploader is solely responsible. You'd know that if you read a streaming site's terms of service. You are wrong. Get over it.


Yea the upload is the responsibility of the uploader, not Youtube or Crunchyroll. However you're still viewing it illegally. You tell me too know what I'm talking about, and yet you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

May 9, 2008 11:47 AM

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AnimusNathan said:
Flame_Haze said:
Yes it is legal in the U.S. to watch streams. I can't speak for other countries.


No streaming is the same as downloading. I don't care if I look like an idiot over the Canada thing, I'm still definitely sure it's illegal in the US too pirate.


Try using to instead of too. Watching streams is not pirating.
May 9, 2008 11:49 AM

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AnimusNathan said:
Flame_Haze said:
Yes it is legal in the U.S. to watch streams. I can't speak for other countries.


No streaming is the same as downloading. I don't care if I look like an idiot over the Canada thing, I'm still definitely sure it's illegal in the US too pirate.


Its not the same as downloading. Yes, its illegal to pirate, but the uploader for the streamed videos is responsible for the content, not the viewer. Go read up on your laws and the terms of service on some streaming sites before continuing your blather.
May 9, 2008 11:50 AM

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AnimusNathan said:
Shiranai said:


Watching streams is legal because the uploader is solely responsible. You'd know that if you read a streaming site's terms of service. You are wrong. Get over it.


Yea the upload is the responsibility of the uploader, not Youtube or Crunchyroll. However you're still viewing it illegally. You tell me too know what I'm talking about, and yet you obviously don't know what you're talking about.


But its not against the law to view it. You can't be persecuted. Thus, the loophole.
May 9, 2008 11:52 AM
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Shiranai said:

Its not the same as downloading. Yes, its illegal to pirate, but the uploader for the streamed videos is responsible for the content, not the viewer. Go read up on your laws and the terms of service on some streaming sites before continuing your blather.


I got four letters for you: DMCA. You make a temporary copy of streamed material in your RAM/HD etc. and thus is still liable too laws of the DMCA.

This is my victory.

May 9, 2008 11:52 AM

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Shiranai said:
8GaugeBrett said:
Flame_Haze said:
Well you see fansubs are doing something called killing the anime industry. Not stopping them means an eventual total annihilation of the anime industry or just a couple of "guaranteed" safe shows that will sell well in Japan's market but not elsewhere.


It is killing the FOREIGN anime industry, but it really only cuts into the export profit margins of the domestic Japanese anime industry. If you honestly think that native speakers are waiting every night just so they can get a copy of their favorite new show with subtitles they can't even read then you've gotta be brain damaged. Also this notion that anime companies are producing new shows that will ONLY sell well in a foreign market, but not domestically, is absolutely ludicrous.


People are downloading the raws in Japan in lieu of paying for the channels that they air on with TV as well as not buying the DVDs. Of course, Japan is already taking this matter into hand.


Yes, those are people getting the raws, but he specifically states that this problem created by Fansubbers - NOT - raw providers. If he had said it was the raw providers that were causing the downfall of the whole anime industry then his argument might hold water.

But even so, you can domestically download "raws" of shows like "The Sapranos", "Rome", "Sex in the City" and the like instead of buying the season dvds here in the US. However, we've only seen an increase in the dvd purchases of these shows in the past few years, so I am not sure how much effect these raws really have on the overall "pay-per-view" premium channel entertainment industry. Also if you have to pay for the individual channels that these shows are broadcasted on in Japan then why the hell do they still have advertisements in them? It sounds to me like the whole system needs to be overhauled.

The US TV based entertainment industry's primary source of revenue is through commercial advertisements and the occasional product placements. I guess the Japanese do things much differently, but I can only assume that Pizza Hut is paying the producers of Code Geass something to have C.C. whore out there product.



May 9, 2008 11:53 AM

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8GaugeBrett said:
Shiranai said:
8GaugeBrett said:
Flame_Haze said:
Well you see fansubs are doing something called killing the anime industry. Not stopping them means an eventual total annihilation of the anime industry or just a couple of "guaranteed" safe shows that will sell well in Japan's market but not elsewhere.


It is killing the FOREIGN anime industry, but it really only cuts into the export profit margins of the domestic Japanese anime industry. If you honestly think that native speakers are waiting every night just so they can get a copy of their favorite new show with subtitles they can't even read then you've gotta be brain damaged. Also this notion that anime companies are producing new shows that will ONLY sell well in a foreign market, but not domestically, is absolutely ludicrous.


People are downloading the raws in Japan in lieu of paying for the channels that they air on with TV as well as not buying the DVDs. Of course, Japan is already taking this matter into hand.


Yes, those are people getting the raws, but he specifically states that this problem created by Fansubbers - NOT - raw providers. If he had said it was the raw providers that were causing the downfall of the whole anime industry then his argument might hold water.

But even so, you can domestically download "raws" of shows like "The Sapranos", "Rome", "Sex in the City" and the like instead of buying the season dvds here in the US. However, we've only seen an increase in the dvd purchases of these shows in the past few years, so I am not sure how much effect these raws really have on the overall "pay-per-view" premium channel entertainment industry. Also if you have to pay for the individual channels that these shows are broadcasted on in Japan then why the hell do they still have advertisements in them? It sounds to me like the whole system needs to be overhauled.

The US TV based entertainment industry's primary source of revenue is through commercial advertisements and the occasional product placements. I guess the Japanese do things much differently, but I can only assume that Pizza Hut is paying the producers of Code Geass something to have C.C. whore out there product.


You are correct.
May 9, 2008 11:56 AM

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Raw providers are the source of the fansubs and they must be stopped to end it.

Edit 1:

@Damoizgod: I never want to fall to your lowly level of insults.

Loopholes are legal.

@Talamare: I don't want points from someone who doesn't understand anything.

@AnimusNathan: Your a troll. like Demoizgod.
Flame_HazeMay 12, 2008 4:28 AM
May 9, 2008 11:59 AM

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AnimusNathan said:
Shiranai said:

Its not the same as downloading. Yes, its illegal to pirate, but the uploader for the streamed videos is responsible for the content, not the viewer. Go read up on your laws and the terms of service on some streaming sites before continuing your blather.


I got four letters for you: DMCA. You make a temporary copy of streamed material in your RAM/HD etc. and thus is still liable too laws of the DMCA.

This is my victory.


You're not even concerned with facts, are you? You just want to win some stupid dispute.

A temporary copy. The loophole stands.
May 9, 2008 12:01 PM

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Animus...this isn't a competition...just state what u know and keep the ball rollin..
May 9, 2008 12:01 PM

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Flame_Haze said:
Raw providers are the source of the fansubs and they must be stopped to end it.

AnimusNathan everything you say has no merit.

you say all the time, that they must be stoped, but you self watch things from these people... its like fighting against something you make use of... it just doesnt make sense to me what you are doing... if you were only watching anime only self buyed I would say nothing.. but you watch also ongoings and its 100% you havent buyed them
May 9, 2008 12:01 PM

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Flame_Haze said:
Raw providers are the source of the fansubs and they must be stopped to end it.

Again many other people have posted to counter this. You are gravely naive if you think it can be stopped. Just look at the Warez scene, they've survived and will continue to do so.
Flame_Haze said:
AnimusNathan everything you say has no merit.


If that is true then it should be easy enough for you to truly counter it to our satisfaction.
May 9, 2008 12:04 PM
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Shiranai said:


You're not even concerned with facts, are you? You just want to win some stupid dispute.

A temporary copy. The loophole stands.


Obviously you aren't concerned with the facts. Go read up on the laws of the DMCA since I'm too lazy too copypaste it all. It's illegal. End of the line for you buddy. Loopholes don't exist.

IT IS A COMPETITION. A COMPETITION TOO SEE WHO IS RIGHT. AND I AM THE OVERALL VICTOR. Mwhahahahahahaha!

May 9, 2008 12:06 PM

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this is becoming pointless...flame keeps repeatin the same stuff...raw providers must be stopped...and eventhough he is usin their "Service" he doesn't care. ...no matter what any1 else says...i don't think his opinion will change...it looks like some of you are givin more effort than he is and thus are wasting more time than he is...if this were a battle ....he'd win
May 9, 2008 12:06 PM
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Flame_Haze said:
Raw providers are the source of the fansubs and they must be stopped to end it.

AnimusNathan everything you say has no merit.


You're just upset that I've conquered your puny nation of cowardice and lies. Sure, sometimes I'm wrong. You can't be sure that you're right all the time. But I'm not going too sitback and not say what I think just because I might be wrong. Sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong. I won't really find out until I fight for it. And in this case I am right and you are succumbing and relying on the most desperate strategy: simple, meaningless attacks.

May 9, 2008 12:07 PM

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AnimusNathan said:


IT IS A COMPETITION. A COMPETITION TOO SEE WHO IS RIGHT. AND I AM THE OVERALL VICTOR. Mwhahahahahahaha!


Actually, you're just a troll. The uploader is responsible for the content. This includes that 'temporary copy'.
May 9, 2008 12:08 PM
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bluecorp said:
this is becoming pointless...flame keeps repeatin the same stuff...raw providers must be stopped...and eventhough he is usin their "Service" he doesn't care. ...no matter what any1 else says...i don't think his opinion will change...it looks like some of you are givin more effort than he is and thus are wasting more time than he is...if this were a battle ....he'd win


Only in his mind. The true battle occurs when the un-involved view it. And I'm sure that right now those who aren't posting see me as the true winner.

Even if some of you say it isn't a battle too be correct, you still post in defiance and trying too make yourself seem correct and try too change others opinion. I'm just more honest about it.

May 9, 2008 12:09 PM

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lol... what a quick burn.."you're just a troll." priceless
May 9, 2008 12:10 PM
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Shiranai said:


Actually, you're just a troll. The uploader is responsible for the content. This includes that 'temporary copy'.


Nice desperate measure attack. But that "uploader is responsible" part only has too do with copyright claims from companies like Viacom. It means simply that Youtube isn't responsible for that content, the uploader is. It has nothing too do with people who stream it, especially knowing it's copyrighted content.


May 9, 2008 12:10 PM

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"H.R.2281
Digital Millennium Copyright Act (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)

`Sec. 1309. Infringement

`(a) ACTS OF INFRINGEMENT- Except as provided in subsection (b), it shall be infringement of the exclusive rights in a design protected under this chapter for any person, without the consent of the owner of the design, within the United States and during the term of such protection, to--

`(1) make, have made, or import, for sale or for use in trade, any infringing article as defined in subsection (e); or

`(2) sell or distribute for sale or for use in trade any such infringing article.

`(b) ACTS OF SELLERS AND DISTRIBUTORS- A seller or distributor of an infringing article who did not make or import the article shall be deemed to have infringed on a design protected under this chapter only if that person--

`(1) induced or acted in collusion with a manufacturer to make, or an importer to import such article, except that merely purchasing or giving an order to purchase such article in the ordinary course of business shall not of itself constitute such inducement or collusion; or

`(2) refused or failed, upon the request of the owner of the design, to make a prompt and full disclosure of that person's source of such article, and that person orders or reorders such article after receiving notice by registered or certified mail of the protection subsisting in the design.

`(c) ACTS WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE- It shall not be infringement under this section to make, have made, import, sell, or distribute, any article embodying a design which was created without knowledge that a design was protected under this chapter and was copied from such protected design.

`(d) ACTS IN ORDINARY COURSE OF BUSINESS- A person who incorporates into that person's product of manufacture an infringing article acquired from others in the ordinary course of business, or who, without knowledge of the protected design embodied in an infringing article, makes or processes the infringing article for the account of another person in the ordinary course of business, shall not be deemed to have infringed the rights in that design under this chapter except under a condition contained in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (b). Accepting an order or reorder from the source of the infringing article shall be deemed ordering or reordering within the meaning of subsection (b)(2).

`(e) INFRINGING ARTICLE DEFINED- As used in this section, an `infringing article' is any article the design of which has been copied from a design protected under this chapter, without the consent of the owner of the protected design. An infringing article is not an illustration or picture of a protected design in an advertisement, book, periodical, newspaper, photograph, broadcast, motion picture, or similar medium. A design shall not be deemed to have been copied from a protected design if it is original and not substantially similar in appearance to a protected design.

`(f) ESTABLISHING ORIGINALITY- The party to any action or proceeding under this chapter who alleges rights under this chapter in a design shall have the burden of establishing the design's originality whenever the opposing party introduces an earlier work which is identical to such design, or so similar as to make prima facie showing that such design was copied from such work.

`(g) REPRODUCTION FOR TEACHING OR ANALYSIS- It is not an infringement of the exclusive rights of a design owner for a person to reproduce the design in a useful article or in any other form solely for the purpose of teaching, analyzing, or evaluating the appearance, concepts, or techniques embodied in the design, or the function of the useful article embodying the design."
May 9, 2008 12:11 PM

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AnimusNathan said:
Shiranai said:


Actually, you're just a troll. The uploader is responsible for the content. This includes that 'temporary copy'.


Nice desperate measure attack. But that "uploader is responsible" part only has too do with copyright claims from companies like Viacom. It means simply that Youtube isn't responsible for that content, the uploader is. It has nothing too do with people who stream it, especially knowing it's copyrighted content.



The viewers aren't responsible either. Show me the thing that states otherwise.
May 9, 2008 12:11 PM

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AnimusNathan said:
Warll said:

Guess what that is not how it works. Anything is legal until a law says it is not, same goes for your rights. So please you show me the law, Canadian no duh, which contradicts what I said.


Ok...actually, you're right. BUT IT STILL ISNT LEGAL IN THE US OR AUSTRALIA OR THE EUROPEAN UNION.

I'm sorry but just because it is illegal for a whole seven percent of the world's citizens does not mean you can address it as "illegal" without mentioning where this statement is true. After all I don't know whether you've realized this but the internet is made up of much more then The US of A.
May 9, 2008 12:12 PM
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Warll said:

I'm sorry but just because it is illegal for a whole seven percent of the world's citizens does not mean you can address it as "illega"l without mentioning where this statement is true. After all I don't know whether you've realized this but the internet is made up of much more then The US of A.


Yea... I live in Canada. And I mentioned Europe, Australia, and the US. I'm not sure what you're trying too get at. I thought it was illegal in Canada due too copyright laws made decades earlier. But now they say it's passively fine. I've yet too see that from any other country. And the USA has the DMCA.

May 9, 2008 12:14 PM

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chryseis said:

`(g) REPRODUCTION FOR TEACHING OR ANALYSIS- It is not an infringement of the exclusive rights of a design owner for a person to reproduce the design in a useful article or in any other form solely for the purpose of teaching, analyzing, or evaluating the appearance, concepts, or techniques embodied in the design, or the function of the useful article embodying the design."

Could a case not be made for fansubs that they are for the purpose of teaching the Japanese language?
May 9, 2008 12:15 PM

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Chryseis posted the DMCA and I see nothing that concerns viewing it without distributing being against the law.
May 9, 2008 12:15 PM
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chryseis said:
"H.R.2281
Digital Millennium Copyright Act (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)


And for those of you who want too argue with me, streaming is considered* "making" a copy of it.

EDIT: fixed considered*

May 9, 2008 12:16 PM

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I am shocked and outraged, how dare they do such a thing to the ppl that spread anime to the world, hmph



May 9, 2008 12:16 PM
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Warll said:

Could a case not be made for fansubs that they are for the purpose of teaching the Japanese language?


Yea, and that guy I killed... I mean I didn't really kill him. I was just holding a knife and it happened too interact with his body and slip into him.

May 9, 2008 12:19 PM

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AnimusNathan said:
Warll said:

Could a case not be made for fansubs that they are for the purpose of teaching the Japanese language?


Yea, and that guy I killed... I mean I didn't really kill him. I was just holding a knife and it happened too interact with his body and slip into him.

How if I remember my law & Order right that happens to fall under man slaughter. Which there just happens to be a law against.
May 9, 2008 12:19 PM
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Warll said:
AnimusNathan said:
Warll said:

Could a case not be made for fansubs that they are for the purpose of teaching the Japanese language?


Yea, and that guy I killed... I mean I didn't really kill him. I was just holding a knife and it happened too interact with his body and slip into him.

How if I remember my law & Order right that happens to fall under man slaughter. Which there just happens to be a law against.


Well that sucks.

May 9, 2008 12:19 PM

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AnimusNathan said:
chryseis said:
"H.R.2281
Digital Millennium Copyright Act (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)


And for those of you who want too argue with me, streaming is considering "making" a copy of it.

No it isn't....thats funny how you say that!
May 9, 2008 12:20 PM

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AnimusNathan said:
Warll said:

Could a case not be made for fansubs that they are for the purpose of teaching the Japanese language?


Yea, and that guy I killed... I mean I didn't really kill him. I was just holding a knife and it happened too interact with his body and slip into him.


Entirely different law. Manslaughter is manslaughter, even if its unintentional.
May 9, 2008 12:20 PM

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AnimusNathan said:
bluecorp said:
this is becoming pointless...flame keeps repeatin the same stuff...raw providers must be stopped...and eventhough he is usin their "Service" he doesn't care. ...no matter what any1 else says...i don't think his opinion will change...it looks like some of you are givin more effort than he is and thus are wasting more time than he is...if this were a battle ....he'd win


Only in his mind. The true battle occurs when the un-involved view it. And I'm sure that right now those who aren't posting see me as the true winner.

Even if some of you say it isn't a battle too be correct, you still post in defiance and trying too make yourself seem correct and try too change others opinion. I'm just more honest about it.


I'd say your winning but my opinion is one sided. [Still mad at my burn on the first page]

I don't see fansubbing stopping anytime soon.
US companies spend millions (a guess) into trying to stop torrents and have not succesed.
I doubt the anime conpanies have as much money to waste (IMO) on trying to stop uploaders.

Forgive my grammar in advance
RoxkisMay 9, 2008 12:25 PM
May 9, 2008 12:20 PM
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Keiichi_Morisato said:

No it isn't....thats funny how you say that!


Yep, and your name is Joseph.

May 9, 2008 12:23 PM

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AnimusNathan said:
Keiichi_Morisato said:

No it isn't....thats funny how you say that!


Yep, and your name is Joseph.
Oh! Damn I didnt know that !

But seriously.... fan subs will never die...there will always be ways to share anime!

May 9, 2008 12:25 PM

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AnimusNathan said:
chryseis said:
"H.R.2281
Digital Millennium Copyright Act (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)


And for those of you who want too argue with me, streaming is considered* "making" a copy of it.

EDIT: fixed considered*


That copy is only active as long as the streamed video is being streamed and it leaves the computer as soon as the connection is cut off. You may consider it a copy, but it could be considered otherwise by a court. If this held to things besides anime such as those online news casts, you could be persecuted for them as well. Sorry, but that wouldn't hold up in court.
May 9, 2008 12:28 PM
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Shiranai said:


That copy is only active as long as the streamed video is being streamed and it leaves the computer as soon as the connection is cut off. You may consider it a copy, but it could be considered otherwise by a court. If this held to things besides anime such as those online news casts, you could be persecuted for them as well. Sorry, but that wouldn't hold up in court.


So If I make a pirated copy VHS tape and then throw it out after viewing it, it isn't illegal? Sure it may not hold up in court, but laws tend too be very "stretchy" in court. Like that email spammer who went too prison for 10 years. It's still illegal by definition too make the copy.

EDIT: Gotta go. Will reply later. Having fun.

May 9, 2008 12:31 PM

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Shiranai said:
AnimusNathan said:
chryseis said:
"H.R.2281
Digital Millennium Copyright Act (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)


And for those of you who want too argue with me, streaming is considered* "making" a copy of it.

EDIT: fixed considered*


That copy is only active as long as the streamed video is being streamed and it leaves the computer as soon as the connection is cut off. You may consider it a copy, but it could be considered otherwise by a court. If this held to things besides anime such as those online news casts, you could be persecuted for them as well. Sorry, but that wouldn't hold up in court.


Except when your viewing those news casts you've been given permission to view them, provided your viewing them on the station's site or watching them on TV.
May 9, 2008 12:31 PM

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here's some interesting YouTube ToS...


4. General Use of the Website—Permissions and Restrictions

YouTube hereby grants you permission to access and use the Website as set forth in these Terms of Service, provided that:

A. You agree not to distribute in any medium any part of the Website, including but not limited to User Submissions (defined below), without YouTube's prior written authorization.

B. You agree not to alter or modify any part of the Website, including but not limited to YouTube's Embeddable Player or any of its related technologies.

C. You agree not to access User Submissions (defined below) or YouTube Content through any technology or means other than the video playback pages of the Website itself, the YouTube Embeddable Player, or other explicitly authorized means YouTube may designate.

D. You agree not to use the Website, including the YouTube Embeddable Player for any commercial use, without the prior written authorization of YouTube. Prohibited commercial uses include any of the following actions taken without YouTube's express approval:

* sale of access to the Website or its related services (such as the Embeddable Player) on another website;
* use of the Website or its related services (such as the Embeddable Player), for the primary purpose of gaining advertising or subscription revenue;
* the sale of advertising, on the YouTube website or any third-party website, targeted to the content of specific User Submissions or YouTube content;
* and any use of the Website or its related services (such as the Embeddable player) that YouTube finds, in its sole discretion, to use YouTube's resources or User Submissions with the effect of competing with or displacing the market for YouTube, YouTube content, or its User Submissions. (For more information about prohibited commercial uses, see our FAQ.)

E. Prohibited commercial uses do not include:

* uploading an original video to YouTube, or maintaining an original channel on YouTube, to promote your business or artistic enterprise;
* using the Embeddable Player to show YouTube videos on an ad-enabled blog or website, provided the primary purpose of using the Embeddable Player is not to gain advertising revenue or compete with YouTube;
* any use that YouTube expressly authorizes in writing.

(For more information about what constitutes a prohibited commercial use, see our FAQ.)

F. If you use the YouTube Embeddable Player on your website, you must include a prominent link back to the YouTube website on the pages containing the Embeddable Player and you may not modify, build upon, or block any portion of the Embeddable Player in any way.

G. If you use the YouTube Uploader, you agree that it may automatically download and install updates from time to time from YouTube. These updates are designed to improve, enhance and further develop the Uploader and may take the form of bug fixes, enhanced functions, new software modules and completely new versions. You agree to receive such updates (and permit YouTube to deliver these to you) as part of your use of the Uploader.

H. You agree not to use or launch any automated system, including without limitation, "robots," "spiders," or "offline readers," that accesses the Website in a manner that sends more request messages to the YouTube servers in a given period of time than a human can reasonably produce in the same period by using a conventional on-line web browser. Notwithstanding the foregoing, YouTube grants the operators of public search engines permission to use spiders to copy materials from the site for the sole purpose of and solely to the extent necessary for creating publicly available searchable indices of the materials, but not caches or archives of such materials. YouTube reserves the right to revoke these exceptions either generally or in specific cases. You agree not to collect or harvest any personally identifiable information, including account names, from the Website, nor to use the communication systems provided by the Website (e.g. comments, email) for any commercial solicitation purposes. You agree not to solicit, for commercial purposes, any users of the Website with respect to their User Submissions.

I. In your use of the website, you will otherwise comply with the terms and conditions of these Terms of Service, YouTube Community Guidelines, and all applicable local, national, and international laws and regulations.

J. YouTube reserves the right to discontinue any aspect of the YouTube Website at any time.
5. Your Use of Content on the Site

In addition to the general restrictions above, the following restrictions and conditions apply specifically to your use of content on the YouTube Website.

A. The content on the YouTube Website, except all User Submissions (as defined below), including without limitation, the text, software, scripts, graphics, photos, sounds, music, videos, interactive features and the like ("Content") and the trademarks, service marks and logos contained therein ("Marks"), are owned by or licensed to YouTube, subject to copyright and other intellectual property rights under the law. Content on the Website is provided to you AS IS for your information and personal use only and may not be downloaded, copied, reproduced, distributed, transmitted, broadcast, displayed, sold, licensed, or otherwise exploited for any other purposes whatsoever without the prior written consent of the respective owners. YouTube reserves all rights not expressly granted in and to the Website and the Content.

B. You may access User Submissions solely:

* for your information and personal use;
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C. User Comments are made available to you for your information and personal use solely as intended through the normal functionality of the YouTube Service. User Comments are made available "as is", and may not be used, copied, reproduced, distributed, transmitted, broadcast, displayed, sold, licensed, downloaded, or otherwise exploited in any manner not intended by the normal functionality of the YouTube Service or otherwise as prohibited under this Agreement.

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May 9, 2008 12:31 PM

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Sep 2007
608
AnimusNathan said:
Shiranai said:


That copy is only active as long as the streamed video is being streamed and it leaves the computer as soon as the connection is cut off. You may consider it a copy, but it could be considered otherwise by a court. If this held to things besides anime such as those online news casts, you could be persecuted for them as well. Sorry, but that wouldn't hold up in court.


So If I make a pirated copy VHS tape and then throw it out after viewing it, it isn't illegal? Sure it may not hold up in court, but laws tend too be very "stretchy" in court. Like that email spammer who went too prison for 10 years. It's still illegal by definition too make the copy.

EDIT: Gotta go. Will reply later. Having fun.


Entirely different. Here's an example: http://www.scifi.com/rewind/?sid=32855

That is a copyrighted show. It is only meant to be streamed on that site. Now if what you're saying is true, since a temporary copy is made, you're breaking copyright laws. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
May 9, 2008 12:32 PM

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Jan 2008
11
in terms of a VHS...if u dispose of it correctly...there would be no proof....
bluecorpMay 9, 2008 8:13 PM
May 9, 2008 12:34 PM

Offline
Sep 2007
65
AnimusNathan said:
Shiranai said:


That copy is only active as long as the streamed video is being streamed and it leaves the computer as soon as the connection is cut off. You may consider it a copy, but it could be considered otherwise by a court. If this held to things besides anime such as those online news casts, you could be persecuted for them as well. Sorry, but that wouldn't hold up in court.


So If I make a pirated copy VHS tape and then throw it out after viewing it, it isn't illegal? Sure it may not hold up in court, but laws tend too be very "stretchy" in court. Like that email spammer who went too prison for 10 years. It's still illegal by definition too make the copy.

EDIT: Gotta go. Will reply later. Having fun.


You have a right to use your VCR or DVR to tape/copy from your TV. As well in many places, Canada for one, you have a right to make backups of your media. So, basically what I'm saying is how exactly is this VHS illegal?
May 9, 2008 1:18 PM
Offline
Oct 2007
289
i hope they get out soon XD it's not like they've done anythin serious like plan a terrorist attack they broke some simple laws lol
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May 9, 2008 1:48 PM
Offline
Jul 2007
1335
*attempts to read through the entire thread*

CONCLUSION: THIS THREAD IS:

May 9, 2008 1:50 PM
Offline
Jun 2007
273
AnimusNathan said:
Find me a law that says its legal too do so. Otherwise it's still piracy.
That was a bit naive since it is, as people have said, the other way around, but as it happens...

It's not a law, but a treaty.

I, under article 10.1 of the ECHR, have the right to "receive information without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers" (see below).

This isn't a "loophole", but a basic Human Right. The intent of the treaty is to make it impossible for governments to limit the spread of ideas. To make sure the right is absolute, the definition of "idea" is extremely broad. You have to take a more than casual look at 20th century European history to understand why, but I'll give you a few hints: world war 2, cold war, prosecution, dictatorships.

Under article 10.2, individual nations may can limit 10.1 with their own legislation, but I doubt many have or will. Legislation that limits 10.1 must serve a higher purpose, such as national security, public safety, etc (see below).

I live in Europe, so my ass is covered and I'm downloading away without fear of prosecution. I believe there's a similar treaty that has been signed by most "free" nations. Do your own research and find it or apply for European Citizenship !!! :-p

---FYI---
The Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, also known as the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)

Article 10 – Freedom of expression
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
rkrempelMay 9, 2008 2:55 PM
May 9, 2008 3:14 PM

Offline
Oct 2007
829
accela said:
*attempts to read through the entire thread*

CONCLUSION: THIS THREAD IS:



You sir, have just solved the mystery of...whatever these people are talking about :P
May 9, 2008 3:18 PM

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Jul 2007
915
Flame_Haze said:
Canned Dogs says they was one of the most popular. http://zepy.momotato.com/2008/05/09/police-arrest-3-people-that-shared-anime-on-share/

This is a blow to fansubs and if things continue fansubs will be hurt overall and that's a good thing. Once people can't get their free anime fix anytime they want they will either buy dvds, only watch it on tv/adultswim fix etc., from their friends collections, or stop watching anime all together.


You're the biggest damn hypocrite I've ever seen in my life. You watch Code Geass R2, Kanokon, and more (which are only available in English via fansub), and have the audacity to be an ungrateful brat to the very people who let you watch the shows you do. It's quite easy to say you can live without fansubbed anime, but the fact that you bitch about people fansubbing shit when YOU fucking use what they sub is just disgraceful.

Also, just because you stream anime off of an legal site, doesn't make watching copyrighted material legal. In fact, that's the whole fucking issue with torrenting. Bittorrent itself is a legal program, just like youtube is a legit website, but downloading copyrighted material is NOT legal, the same as streaming copyrighted material is NOT legal no matter who uploads it.
All the mods fucking blow on this website except Kaiserpingvin, Cloudy-Sky, Baman and aero. PM me if you're actually good and I left you out.

Oh, rule 8...

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