Could one of the internet's least loved anime be remade into an anime of the year contender?

literaturenerd said:
I think the answer is answer is definitely yes. Here is what would need to be changed.


1. Pacing. Elfen Lied needed more episodes to tell the story it wanted. The OVA didn't even have time to explain the part of the manga it was adapting such as why Lucy and her new friend Aiko were on the run. Mayu's psychological suffering and gradual recovery from sexual assault aren't given the time such a serious subject deserves. We don't get to know Lucy as well as we should. Since the anime really wants to redeem Lucy, the audience needs to actually see the extent of her remorse and desire to change and repent. Around 70% of people who watch Elfen Lied end the series thinking Lucy is an absolute evil cunt and Kouta was VERY wrong for being so forgiving. The zoo episode and orphanage episode were a REALLY good start, but we needed more of that. The internet LOVES Vegeta. The internet LOVES the transgender vampire noble from Let the Right One in, who kills over 7,000 people in 300 years just to live forever. The internet loves Omniman. The internet overwhelmingly HATES Lucy and you're accused of being a stupid 12-year-old goth girl if you don't hate her. There's really no reason for this. It shouldn't be that hard with just a little more time to make Lucy more likeable to general audiences.

2. Underage nudity. Made in Abyss has even more of this than Elfen Lied and the internet doesn't care. However, Made in Abyss doesn't show nipples because it was made after 2010 when Japan passed a law about underage nudity in manga and anime. The scenes themselves aren't problematic. It's really all about how they're shot and framed. Mayu and Nana are bonding together while bathing and Nana is able to experience a soothing bath for the first time in her horrible life of suffering. That's a good scene. Nana and Mayu could be wearing towels. We could show them from the shoulders up, we could put in more steam. Any of those would work. In one scene, Lucy has just killed a family and is now walking around their house naked and taking food from their fridge. This is a chilling scene because it shows just how detached Lucy has become and how far she's going in her mind to convince herself that she's not killing "real" people or that her actions are somehow justified. This is effective because walking around naked is something you would only do in your own house when you're completely comfortable and feel like you own it. Was it necessary to show her little 10-year-old nipples? No, it wasn't!

3. Cousin marriage is fully legal in Japan and not looked down upon as that unusual. Most non-Japanese don't realize this. In the manga, Yuka is Kouta's love interest because she was always going to be the girl he ended up with. In the anime, Kouta was always going to end up with Lucy and Yuka is just there because she was in the manga. The Love Triangle angle doesn't really help the anime in any way. I would keep Yuka but give her a much smaller role. She cares about Kouta and feels bad for what happened to him. However, she's not in love with him and doesn't constantly beat him out of jealousy. The remake could still keep the sub-plot where Lucy murders Kouta's family in a blind rage because her paranoia makes her believe that Kouta lied to her in order to hurt her and in reality, loves Yuka. However, in the remake it would simply show the extreme extent of Lucy's paranoia. Kouta and Yuka don't actually love each other in the romantic sense at all.

4. Elfen Lied sort of feels "Western" so people tend to forget it's Japanese. There are some moments of sub-text that are supposed to be obvious to the viewers but are often lost on non-Japanese. "Why the FUCK did they just take a naked, injured girl home? Why not take her immediately to the hospital?" That's a question that everyone in America has about Elfen Lied. The reason is that Japan is a culturally conservative country that cares a lot about personal honor and shame. If they brought Nyuu directly to the hospital all bloody and naked, everyone would assume that she was assaulted and raped. Unfortunately, rape victims are often blamed in Japan and people think "They must have been doing something to ask for it!". If everyone thought she was raped it would be very disgraceful for her family and hurt her chances of ever getting married. That's why it was Yuka who said she should be taken home, cleaned up, and given new clothes. Another example is when Mayu neatly lines up her sandals before wading into the ocean. In Japan, that's actually a sign that she intends to commit suicide by drowning. A remake could add notes explaining some of this cultural sub-text.


Those are the MAIN problems with Elfen Lied. If you just fixed those 4 problems, the series wouldn't be a punching bag. It would be completely acceptable to like Elfen Lied. An example of a minor problem would be the animation. It's Studio Arms, which means it looks pretty cheap in places and it was clearly made on a budget. It had some highly talented staff members like Umetsu and Kanbe, but it's clear this wasn't a Madhouse production. The least we can do is keep poor Lucy's boobs on-model during the episodes Umetsu wasn't lead animator. The last minor issue has to do with tone. The manga is categorized partially as both a comedy and an echii, but the anime wants to take itself more seriously. So, some of the slapstick scenes like Yuka walking in on Kouta changing Nyuu and hitting him don't belong in the anime. Nyuu pissing herself on-screen in the first episode wasn't needed. We can safely remove that scene and not lose anything important.

literaturenerd said:
Anime taste is highly subjective, but some these arguments I'm just baffled by.

1. Lucy is the anti-hero and main protagonist of Elfen Lied. As far as the anime is concerned, the viewers ARE supposed to be on her side by the end of show, despite all the evil shit she's done. That's what a redemption story is. That's the entire point of the kind of story that the anime wanted to tell. You can still hate Lucy and that's fine. You're entitled to love or hate any character in any piece of media. However, when you say Lucy wasn't supposed to be likable, you're going directly against the stated aim of the anime director. That's an objectively wrong statement.

2. Not all nudity is equal. This is the reason the Japanese government actually passed an entire fucking law on this topic. There are plenty of people who wouldn't be able to enjoy Made in Abyss if it was made in 2003 and had more loli nipples and ass shots. Modern anime audiences have standards of what constitutes acceptable nudity and Elfen Lied due to its age is in violation of those standards. A remake would allow people to enjoy the series without being put off this issue.

3. The anime didn't pair Kouta with Lucy because the manga wasn't finished. The anime did it because it would be a more interesting couple, better reflect the core themes of the series, and not be shit. Who cares about pissing off the manga fans? The manga is fucking terrible, and it has never had many fans. The anime despite all its flaws was a cult classic of its day with hundreds of thousands of fans around the world.

4. There's a difference between explaining plot elements and themes and explaining cultural sub-text. Personally, I think it should fall to the individual to interpret what happened in an episode of any given anime. Yet, millions of people watch videos and read articles attempting to explain shows like Evangelion and Lain. "This is actually what this represented. The series never explains, but I think Kaji was a triple agent. Lain is actually about X". Explaining the cultural sub-text behind not taking Nyuu directly to the hospital would answer a question that a LOT of people had. Not because those people are stupid or weren't paying attention, but because unless you live in Japan or have a lot of knowledge about Japanese culture, there is no way you would know that. Same with the sandals example. That's not a custom anywhere outside of Japan and there's no reason to expect non-Japanese to know that. Thus, a note would be helpful.

You keep bringing up "edgy" and "stupid" but there's nothing about Elfen Lied's story conceptually that means it HAS to be edgy or stupid. This is a matter of execution. Shinsekai Yori is a young adult novel with objectively terrible world building, massive plot holes, and conceptually is REALLY stupid. Yet, because it fully commits and takes itself seriously, it's a pretty good anime. It asks some interesting questions. It has emotionally powerful scenes. etc. Even if Elfen Lied did have concepts that are just flat out stupid, it could still a be good show and hell even a smart show. Galactic Heroes has a premise that depends on using 17th century battle formations and 2D tactics like pincer formations in fucking outer space where you could just move along the Z axis and completely negate that strategy. There are INCREDIBLY stupid things that happen in that show, yet everyone sees it as a brilliant show...and it honestly is.

VeryGhoul said:
Can we have a tldr for those who are too lazy to read this?

titodacat said:

huh, well I never would've expected someone to compare elfen lied, a dumb fun show, to from a new world a legitimately great show. idk what you mean plot holes, the show follows people who don't know everything so of course the audience isn't going to either.

1. ok, youre fundamentally wrong on what Lucy is. Lucy is supposed to be the lesser of all the evils, you probably will be on her side then she does some fucked up shit and she's now not looking good. in the end of the show/manga, you probably will be on her side, but iirc the anime never makes a good case for you wanting to be on her side other than her dog getting killed(imo the only scene that actually holds up to this day).

2. japan never caters to outside of japan, so why woukd they go out of their way to make a show more appealing to us westerners? sure we think loli nips are weird but we aren't going to change how japan is. I'd recommend you watch the shows that are inspired by elfen lied if you want more western appeals, like stranger things. adding/removing nips is not going to change the much edgier side of this story. that will be the reason people don't watch.

3. my guy you clearly don't pay attention to how bad adaptations work. it doesn't matter how shit the manga is, people get offended when it doesn't follow it. I agree romance sucks in this show, it would be better if it wasn't in it. but if they have to add in romance then go stupid and make it incest.

4. there's this thing called translator notes, this is when the translators explain something that is common in japan but no where else. this is very common when the show references something that isn't prevalent, I don't think elfen lied had anything that needed this treatment.

I mean yes it is about a naked chick dismembering people with invisible arms, it has rape, children killing/getting killed, children being molested. you can not make it not edgy without significantly altering how the story and characters are and at that point just make a new show instead of forcing it to be an elfen lied remake. it would be like them remaking akame ga kill with the manga ending. the whole reason people remember akame now is that it had a ballsy ending with killing everyone off, with the manga quickly being forgotten about. the same thing will happen with elfen lied without the edgy fun.

literaturenerd said:


I recommend some quick fixes to make a flawed but overly hated anime that has potential and lacks execution into a genuinely beloved classic. I then get into a prolonged argument with someone that has the correct opinions on which anime are considered good and bad, but operates on a logic that is alien to me. I also suspect a language barrier.

Dublis91 said:
My man here thought Im gonna read all that

KP_SENSEI said:
The very appeal of the story was bad and cringey,they will have to change everything in order for people to like it.

literaturenerd said:


I recommend some quick fixes to make a flawed but overly hated anime that has potential and lacks execution into a genuinely beloved classic. I then get into a prolonged argument with someone that has the correct opinions on which anime are considered good and bad, but operates on a logic that is alien to me. I also suspect a language barrier.

VeryGhoul said:

I wanted a tldr for your argument but whatever. I don’t think this really needs a remake. It has become a classic. The only reason this gets hate is because it’s popular and it also has tits and gore so for whatever reason it must be bad (same shit happens with Devilman crybaby where they just ignore everything and focus on the gore and porn of the first few episodes). I don’t think this anime is a masterpiece but it’s still enjoyable

literaturenerd said:
I think the answer is answer is definitely yes. Here is what would need to be changed.


1. Pacing. Elfen Lied needed more episodes to tell the story it wanted. The OVA didn't even have time to explain the part of the manga it was adapting such as why Lucy and her new friend Aiko were on the run. Mayu's psychological suffering and gradual recovery from sexual assault aren't given the time such a serious subject deserves. We don't get to know Lucy as well as we should. Since the anime really wants to redeem Lucy, the audience needs to actually see the extent of her remorse and desire to change and repent. Around 70% of people who watch Elfen Lied end the series thinking Lucy is an absolute evil cunt and Kouta was VERY wrong for being so forgiving. The zoo episode and orphanage episode were a REALLY good start, but we needed more of that. The internet LOVES Vegeta. The internet LOVES the transgender vampire noble from Let the Right One in, who kills over 7,000 people in 300 years just to live forever. The internet loves Omniman. The internet overwhelmingly HATES Lucy and you're accused of being a stupid 12-year-old goth girl if you don't hate her. There's really no reason for this. It shouldn't be that hard with just a little more time to make Lucy more likeable to general audiences.

2. Underage nudity. Made in Abyss has even more of this than Elfen Lied and the internet doesn't care. However, Made in Abyss doesn't show nipples because it was made after 2010 when Japan passed a law about underage nudity in manga and anime. The scenes themselves aren't problematic. It's really all about how they're shot and framed. Mayu and Nana are bonding together while bathing and Nana is able to experience a soothing bath for the first time in her horrible life of suffering. That's a good scene. Nana and Mayu could be wearing towels. We could show them from the shoulders up, we could put in more steam. Any of those would work. In one scene, Lucy has just killed a family and is now walking around their house naked and taking food from their fridge. This is a chilling scene because it shows just how detached Lucy has become and how far she's going in her mind to convince herself that she's not killing "real" people or that her actions are somehow justified. This is effective because walking around naked is something you would only do in your own house when you're completely comfortable and feel like you own it. Was it necessary to show her little 10-year-old nipples? No, it wasn't!

3. Cousin marriage is fully legal in Japan and not looked down upon as that unusual. Most non-Japanese don't realize this. In the manga, Yuka is Kouta's love interest because she was always going to be the girl he ended up with. In the anime, Kouta was always going to end up with Lucy and Yuka is just there because she was in the manga. The Love Triangle angle doesn't really help the anime in any way. I would keep Yuka but give her a much smaller role. She cares about Kouta and feels bad for what happened to him. However, she's not in love with him and doesn't constantly beat him out of jealousy. The remake could still keep the sub-plot where Lucy murders Kouta's family in a blind rage because her paranoia makes her believe that Kouta lied to her in order to hurt her and in reality, loves Yuka. However, in the remake it would simply show the extreme extent of Lucy's paranoia. Kouta and Yuka don't actually love each other in the romantic sense at all.

4. Elfen Lied sort of feels "Western" so people tend to forget it's Japanese. There are some moments of sub-text that are supposed to be obvious to the viewers but are often lost on non-Japanese. "Why the FUCK did they just take a naked, injured girl home? Why not take her immediately to the hospital?" That's a question that everyone in America has about Elfen Lied. The reason is that Japan is a culturally conservative country that cares a lot about personal honor and shame. If they brought Nyuu directly to the hospital all bloody and naked, everyone would assume that she was assaulted and raped. Unfortunately, rape victims are often blamed in Japan and people think "They must have been doing something to ask for it!". If everyone thought she was raped it would be very disgraceful for her family and hurt her chances of ever getting married. That's why it was Yuka who said she should be taken home, cleaned up, and given new clothes. Another example is when Mayu neatly lines up her sandals before wading into the ocean. In Japan, that's actually a sign that she intends to commit suicide by drowning. A remake could add notes explaining some of this cultural sub-text.


Those are the MAIN problems with Elfen Lied. If you just fixed those 4 problems, the series wouldn't be a punching bag. It would be completely acceptable to like Elfen Lied. An example of a minor problem would be the animation. It's Studio Arms, which means it looks pretty cheap in places and it was clearly made on a budget. It had some highly talented staff members like Umetsu and Kanbe, but it's clear this wasn't a Madhouse production. The least we can do is keep poor Lucy's boobs on-model during the episodes Umetsu wasn't lead animator. The last minor issue has to do with tone. The manga is categorized partially as both a comedy and an echii, but the anime wants to take itself more seriously. So, some of the slapstick scenes like Yuka walking in on Kouta changing Nyuu and hitting him don't belong in the anime. Nyuu pissing herself on-screen in the first episode wasn't needed. We can safely remove that scene and not lose anything important.

literaturenerd said:
To be fair, I never said the show itself should stop and explain cultural references directly to the audience . I thought that would be a useful for the special features section of a future remake dvd/Bluray. Perhaps I didn’t explain that clearly enough. Tito operates under the assumption that the only appeal is the tits and gore, EL is an inherently trash show, the original fandom were all retards, and it got popular for basically no reason but couldn’t today. Current fans are more enlightened having been shown the way by such towering intellectuals as Thatanimesnob and Digibro. Tito also either being deliberately obtuse or truly doesn’t understand that Elfen Lied’s original fandom are mostly people who liked aspects such as the dark romance, psychological drama, and redemption framework, so would perhaps enjoy a more polished version of our beloved cult classic. In fact, it would be theoretically possible to make a remake that allows more general audiences to experience what the original fandom got out of the show. Then again, Tito and I fundamentally disagree on virtually every aspect of media and our thinking patterns and logic are so fundamentally different that any conversation between us is futile.

titodacat said:

the tldr for the argument was me telling him neutering the tits and gore would be taking away what the show is known for. I also was telling him that a show doesn't need to explain every little thing so everyone is on the same page, it shouldnt treat the audience like idiots. his example was explaining what the shoes on the beach meant suicide but the show never explained that. he also wanted Lucy to be more likable, which I stated would not benefit the show at all since everyone in the show is supposed to be shitty. he wanted less edge, less psycho Lucy, less SA and sexual acts involving children. my main point was if youre gonna change everything you might as well just make a whole new product


I'm with you saying this show doesn't need a remake since it is a product of the time it was made, if it was made now it would absolutely bomb, alienating the old fans of elfen lied and not being special enough to grab the attention of new fans.

literaturenerd said:
I think the answer is answer is definitely yes. Here is what would need to be changed.


1. Pacing. Elfen Lied needed more episodes to tell the story it wanted. The OVA didn't even have time to explain the part of the manga it was adapting such as why Lucy and her new friend Aiko were on the run. Mayu's psychological suffering and gradual recovery from sexual assault aren't given the time such a serious subject deserves. We don't get to know Lucy as well as we should. Since the anime really wants to redeem Lucy, the audience needs to actually see the extent of her remorse and desire to change and repent. Around 70% of people who watch Elfen Lied end the series thinking Lucy is an absolute evil cunt and Kouta was VERY wrong for being so forgiving. The zoo episode and orphanage episode were a REALLY good start, but we needed more of that. The internet LOVES Vegeta. The internet LOVES the transgender vampire noble from Let the Right One in, who kills over 7,000 people in 300 years just to live forever. The internet loves Omniman. The internet overwhelmingly HATES Lucy and you're accused of being a stupid 12-year-old goth girl if you don't hate her. There's really no reason for this. It shouldn't be that hard with just a little more time to make Lucy more likeable to general audiences.

2. Underage nudity. Made in Abyss has even more of this than Elfen Lied and the internet doesn't care. However, Made in Abyss doesn't show nipples because it was made after 2010 when Japan passed a law about underage nudity in manga and anime. The scenes themselves aren't problematic. It's really all about how they're shot and framed. Mayu and Nana are bonding together while bathing and Nana is able to experience a soothing bath for the first time in her horrible life of suffering. That's a good scene. Nana and Mayu could be wearing towels. We could show them from the shoulders up, we could put in more steam. Any of those would work. In one scene, Lucy has just killed a family and is now walking around their house naked and taking food from their fridge. This is a chilling scene because it shows just how detached Lucy has become and how far she's going in her mind to convince herself that she's not killing "real" people or that her actions are somehow justified. This is effective because walking around naked is something you would only do in your own house when you're completely comfortable and feel like you own it. Was it necessary to show her little 10-year-old nipples? No, it wasn't!

3. Cousin marriage is fully legal in Japan and not looked down upon as that unusual. Most non-Japanese don't realize this. In the manga, Yuka is Kouta's love interest because she was always going to be the girl he ended up with. In the anime, Kouta was always going to end up with Lucy and Yuka is just there because she was in the manga. The Love Triangle angle doesn't really help the anime in any way. I would keep Yuka but give her a much smaller role. She cares about Kouta and feels bad for what happened to him. However, she's not in love with him and doesn't constantly beat him out of jealousy. The remake could still keep the sub-plot where Lucy murders Kouta's family in a blind rage because her paranoia makes her believe that Kouta lied to her in order to hurt her and in reality, loves Yuka. However, in the remake it would simply show the extreme extent of Lucy's paranoia. Kouta and Yuka don't actually love each other in the romantic sense at all.

4. Elfen Lied sort of feels "Western" so people tend to forget it's Japanese. There are some moments of sub-text that are supposed to be obvious to the viewers but are often lost on non-Japanese. "Why the FUCK did they just take a naked, injured girl home? Why not take her immediately to the hospital?" That's a question that everyone in America has about Elfen Lied. The reason is that Japan is a culturally conservative country that cares a lot about personal honor and shame. If they brought Nyuu directly to the hospital all bloody and naked, everyone would assume that she was assaulted and raped. Unfortunately, rape victims are often blamed in Japan and people think "They must have been doing something to ask for it!". If everyone thought she was raped it would be very disgraceful for her family and hurt her chances of ever getting married. That's why it was Yuka who said she should be taken home, cleaned up, and given new clothes. Another example is when Mayu neatly lines up her sandals before wading into the ocean. In Japan, that's actually a sign that she intends to commit suicide by drowning. A remake could add notes explaining some of this cultural sub-text.


Those are the MAIN problems with Elfen Lied. If you just fixed those 4 problems, the series wouldn't be a punching bag. It would be completely acceptable to like Elfen Lied. An example of a minor problem would be the animation. It's Studio Arms, which means it looks pretty cheap in places and it was clearly made on a budget. It had some highly talented staff members like Umetsu and Kanbe, but it's clear this wasn't a Madhouse production. The least we can do is keep poor Lucy's boobs on-model during the episodes Umetsu wasn't lead animator. The last minor issue has to do with tone. The manga is categorized partially as both a comedy and an echii, but the anime wants to take itself more seriously. So, some of the slapstick scenes like Yuka walking in on Kouta changing Nyuu and hitting him don't belong in the anime. Nyuu pissing herself on-screen in the first episode wasn't needed. We can safely remove that scene and not lose anything important.

Abajur said:
Just so no one jumps to conclusions: underage nudity and sexual acts in anime and manga are still very much legal in Japan and most other places.