| @filifjonkan @inim @KainiusTheGreat @whiteflame55 New thread for Fruits Basket 2019 starting Friday. |
23feanorDec 8, 2021 7:32 AM
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| Definitely excited, one of those shows I’ve been meaning to get to for the longest time. |
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| I'm down! I tried watching this when it was released but the manga inspired art style really turned me off of it. I need to suck it up and give it a go. Quick question: What's the usual viewing schedule? One episode a night/week? I'm a dirty, dirty binge watcher so I have to ask or I'll have all 3 seasons finished in 2 or 3 days lol |
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KainiusTheGreat said: I'm down! I tried watching this when it was released but the manga inspired art style really turned me off of it. I need to suck it up and give it a go. Quick question: What's the usual viewing schedule? One episode a night/week? I'm a dirty, dirty binge watcher so I have to ask or I'll have all 3 seasons finished in 2 or 3 days lol We usually watch one episode per day posting whenever you want in this thread. Also we all have irl stuff so no pressure to post if you're busy. Just post when you can. If you do want to watch ahead that's no problem but please don't post comments or spoilers ahead of the scheduled episode for that day. I know that @inim sometimes won't post for a few days when he's busy then binge watches a few episodes and post his thoughts for them in one go. Glad to have you all along. |
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| Hello, Hope you're all doing well today. Along with Chihayafuru, Fruits Basket is a shoujo series I've heard a lot about, especially over the last few years as the new version has completed the adaption of the manga and revived/redone the original Fruits Basket anime from 2001, with much acclaim looking at the reviews and scores. Interesting fact, the english dub cast reprised many of their roles from the original show in the 2019 version. Going into the show i don't know anything but what we're told in the synopsis so going in blind. Onto episode 1. Straight away i like the detailed art style, although as @KaiuniusTheGreat mentioned the character styles have a 90's large eyes design. Our main heroine, Tooru is voiced in the english dub by Laura Bailey, who is familiar from previous group watches including Amber from Darker Than Black & Schrodinger from Hellsing and more recently for me, Nodaka from K-On!! and Evangeline from Negima?! First episodes are important and this one was good. I'm not going to bash on Noein too much, but I care more about this show, the story and characters after this one episode than after watching the entirety of Noein. So we have a homeless sweet damsel in distress, Tooru, and the supernatural tale of the Zodiac. I saw Etotama last year and that helped flesh out the Zodiac story for me and how the cat got screwed by the rat, so I know the tale. A lot of romance will have the main love interest introduced very early on, but sometimes it's unclear which one is the main love interest. Not knowing this show i wonder whether it'll be the cat Souma guy (due to Tooru's affinity for the cat in the tale of the Zodiac) or will it be rat Souma guy, ie overcoming her dislike of someone. My bet is the rat Souma guy, just a prediction, see how right I am later on. Overall I quite liked that first episode and am looking forward to the next one, a positive sign for a new show. Have a good day. |
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| I’ll try to keep up this time around so I can do the similar episode-by-episode review. Episode 1 looks about as good as I’ve seen for an SoL anime. Introducing the MC in a way that isn’t too heavy-handed while giving us good reasons to care about her (recent tragedy yielding a positive attitude and a strong work ethic with somewhat self-destructive results) without digging too deep into her past, introducing other important characters through moments that subtly (in some cases not so subtly) hint at what they’re hiding, and finding an organic way for their stories to overlap and initiate what I’m guessing is one of the main underlying elements of the show. Obviously, the ending will complicate things, and it’s just the right amount of spice and intrigue to add as a cliffhanger. All done rather well, and while the animation takes cues from the original show, it’s sharp and vibrant in its own right. Looking forward to seeing how this story element gets explained and also how their animal forms will inform their personalities and behaviors going forward. |
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| Episode 1 CinderellaTooru is a hard-working, piss poor ditz girl who lost her single parent, her foster home, and even her tent. At school, she's bullied by the rich and arrogant school idol, and hangs around with the social misfits and freaks. But she has a heart of gold, is an excellent cook, apologizes a lot, and is kind and friendly to everybody. Meet a classic shoujo heroine. Tooru is picked up by three mysterious bishis and ends up living under their (Japanese style) mansion roof. The house is located on real estate so big the occasional land-slide hardly gets noticed. We don't talk about money much, we own enough of it. In a not-so-subtle exposition dump we learn the story of the rat and the cat, and how the former tricked the latter into being excluded from the 12 Chinese zodiac animals. The grey haired (nudge, nudge, wink. wink) bishi gets a monologue on how stupid cats are. In the final scene, two of the three bishis turn into a grey rat and an orange-brown cat. Bishounen. Check. Parental Abandonment. Check. Dear Mother in Heaven. Check. Under One Roof. Check. Highschool. Check. Forecast: Reverse Harem building up, 3/12 +1 members reported in for duty. Sooooo. This will not be my usual elitist fringe watch, this is big fat mainstream. Is it bad? Not at all, that's what I love about our group watches. The show is also 20 years younger than my usual 4:3 diet, with nice production values. Even the mandatory super-deformed comedy scenes are done really well. Studio TMS is in the business since 1947, so that part is 100% professional. No questions, your honor. The 1 billion Yen question now is: am I entertained, beyond mildly arrogant and sarcastic dissection of the show's elements? Did they assemble it well enough so something special can rise out of the ordinary? So far, yes. I didn't feel bored for a second and the show was over long before I felt it should be. Pacing is good, the melodrama is self-aware and thick but broken by smart humor. The side characters are stereotypes, but the speed and precision at which they are characterized is remarkable. For example the psycho girl by a kitchen knife scene, Tooru's single mon, the Highschool idol leader of the sadistic pack, and so on. They seriously managed to introduce over half a dozen characters in one episode with enough twist to add a little extra to them. Then there are the three bishi bros, mysterious and clearly individuals. As it should be in a well sorted harem, something for everybody. They all look a bit alike and need hair color coding to be recognizable, but given there likely will be 13 (zodiac + rat) of them ... fair enough. Chekov's gun is used a lot, e.g. when the rat recovers Tooru's picture of her mom and refuses to tell her how he did it. And of course the whole exposition dump leading to the final cat vs rat scene was well prepared and motivated. Overall: I'm well out of my comfort zone and that's good. The show is well written within it's target group wish-fulfillment limits, fast moving, self-aware, funny but avoiding slapstick (yay!) and delivers what's on the tin. Looking forward to more Pretty WomanFruits Basket episodes. |
inimDec 10, 2021 2:21 PM
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| Hello, It seems like episode 1 went down well. Most of the anime stories concerning the Chinese Zodiac have been interesting for me, maybe it's because it's a mythology I don't know as well as say the Greek or Roman pantheon of gods. @inim Cinderella Tooru and Pretty Woman made me chuckle. You're right it does have that type of vibe, but to be expected from a mainstream shoujo. I did enjoy Noein, but i didn't want to immediately watch the next episode until we got onto the final arc. I also like trying shows that are out of my comfort zone now and then, you never know until you watch something yourself. @filifjonkan the Zodiac is Chinese construction although with most things it travelled to Japan a long time ago and is well known there also. Episode 2. So the Souma clan are all imbued with animal spirits, which causes them to transform when touched by someone of the opposite sex, hmmm, that's going to make romantic development harder than normal. Good thinking author, lol, will really slow down the "when do Tooru and xxx kiss" questions. They can't, unless Tooru is a closet furry. Next revelation, Tooru may have her memories of the Souma clan and their abilities erased. Tension increased. I imagine given this is a shoujo, this will happen whenever the romantic plot reaches its peak, will she remember her love for rat/cat guy or another Souma we haven't met yet, a bit like Golden Time. Will love overcome all, that kind of thing. And in the next development cat Souma transfers to the same school. My bet is that Tooru and cat and rat guy will be in a love triangle and cat guy will win. Purely because of the chat about "when somebody loves you cat Souma, what will you do" with dog Souma. Laying the foundation for later devlopment. Another good episode and all the players in place. Have a good day all. |
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| Not too much to say about Episode 2. It builds on the character of Kyo (the orange cat) in ways that make him more than just a try hard who wants desperately to defeat Yuki for as yet unexplained reasons. He clearly hasn't experienced spending time with those outside of his family for quite some time, which makes him a loner who struggles with interactions, particularly with women (though that's at least somewhat understandable given his transformation). He's your basic tsundere archetype with a bit of something mysterious thrown in that has yet to be explained. I'm liking how this is developing so far. They're keeping the focus rather narrow in this episode, giving more time to examine single characters after a rather expansive introduction. I'll be intrigued to see how they handle this for the others who are far more stable. |
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| Episode 2 establishes a love triangle with Tooru and extends the rivalry between Rat and Cat Souma. Dog Souma is established as a fairly mature, manager type voice of reason and neutral party. The most time is spent on Cat, who is emotionally stunted (finds it hard to express himself emotionally) and awkward towards girls. Tooru Freud analyzes that in no time, and now will have plenty of opportunity to nurture every shoujo protagonist's helper syndrome. Cat has a heart of gold, all he needs is a loving woman's touch to remove the rough edges right? She's a self-proclaimed cat girl and even had sympathy for the mythological cat, how much better is an in the flesh bishi version for a 16 y/o girl? Exactly. Conveniently the emotionally and socially bedraggled Cat enters another trope, when he becomes the transfer student in Tooru's class. Thus operation waif will take place under the malevolent idol's watch. We all know those spoiled bitches want all the nice toys, so there's plenty of room for romantic rivalry over the Cat, intrigue and other bitch character driven shenanigans. The Rat is developed as strong and smart, yet somewhat arrogant. In the story convenience department we learn about the option of controlled partial amnesia, which is a trope I really hate. It's one of the cheapest and laziest tricks in the book of lazy writers, but alas, it will be used in this story. I just hope advisedly. Overall: Development focuses on the mains, and more exposition dump (animal form, induced amnesia, clan boss for final decisions) is done. Basic conflicts are set up by Mr. Chekov. Let's see how it unfolds, so far not much plot development happened. No surprise for episode 2/64, of course. |
inimDec 11, 2021 10:33 AM
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| Episode 3 has full focus on the chemistry of our three main characters. The show isn't tagged "psychological" but it should. Dr. Tooru Freud once more in inner monologue analyzes Cat and Rat, and why they superficially hate each other. She has more talks with them, as usual while walking. Cat wants to be part of the group, while Rat wants to be left alone. Rat socializes well but when somebody wants to get closer and honest he panics and is inept to bond. Cat doesn't socialize well at all but once he's accepted turns out to be a warm and caring person. Fire and ice, orange air and gray hair. I start to understand what people love about the show, it's this detailed and fairly interesting armchair psychology. The latter isn't meant in a derogatory way, and count me in as armchair psychology fan. Especially when it's not rubbed into your face like here. There's also a meta-level, which is Tooru's Dear Mother in Heaven who comments her comment - nice directorial trick. On the story front, Rat rejects the romantic approach of a classmate, who in the final scene finds his home. We briefly meet another zodiac animal from the ED, the blonde fetish shouta in thigh-highs so popular in reverse harems. The three German sentences this rabbit boy trap utters are J-mangled but otherwise correct. Another trope is pulled, the high school culture festival an we'll see him again there. Overall: Very well done psycho-gram of the two male leads, and Tooru is further established as a highly emphatic and mindful analyst of emotions. I'm pleasantly surprised how quickly the trope ridden first two episodes were put aside and an interesting story sets in. |
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| After watching Episode 3, I think I'm getting a better idea of what the engine is that will drive the progression of the story through the series: namely, Tooru's insights into the men around her leading to them opening up bit by bit. I appreciate that this is only happening in small stages so far, and that Tooru's naivete leads to some of these revelations being made in a way that seems a bit childish at first, but has a lot more meaning if you squint at it. The story isn't focusing in on a single character in this episode, but rather a character trait (a flaw, perhaps) that both unites and separates Kyo and Yuki. Not much of a shocker to see that the very things that make them appear to be opposites in terms of social behaviors are driven by somewhat similar misunderstandings and personal hang-ups. Given how little she understands about the family dynamic at large, it's clear that she's only seeing part of the picture and we can expect to get more fragments of the picture going forward, perhaps as we learn more about Shigure. Also, the gentleman that Tooru runs into towards the beginning of the episode, given his rather eccentric appearance and speech (believe that was German), will almost certainly become important in future episodes, probably as another part of the Zodiac. Seems that there is some bread-crumbing of new characters being added to the mix, which should shake things up a bit. Still enjoying the progression of the series. The character dynamics are clearly where this series thrives. |
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| Hello, Hope you're all doing well this Sunday. I've had a relaxing morning watching Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with Jerry Seinfeld on Netflix, i love good comedians and could watch them all day just chatting (in fact just finished all 9 seasons of Seinfeld sitcom recently and absolutely loved it, better than Friends imho). Anyway, onto episode 3 and Tooru Freud Cinderella as @inim so aptly labels her. A lot of wistful looking into the distance shots in the OP, but quite like the sad tone of the song. Early prediction, Cat says he always loses to Rat and is always in his shadow desperately striving to catch up. I wonder if in the matter of love, ie with Tooru, Cat will end up the winner this time, and Tooru's love will be a prize beyond comparison to all the other loses he's suffered. Just that feeling from what we're hearing in these very early episodes. Ok so we're getting more complexity in the inter personal relationships. We learn Rat is actually jealous of Cat and that's why they both fight. The talk about what makes people kind between Tooru and Rat in the vegetable patch, 'it's not inherent but learned' was well phrased, @inim already mentioned Tooru referencing her deceased mothers comment and it is a good narrative tool that doesn't seem unnatural. Looks like we met the Rabbit Souma when Tooru bumped into him, i thought it was a her at first (aren't some of the Zodiac female?). This show is really growing on me and agree with above comments that I can see why it's so highly praised by everyone that's seen it. I can see both Cat and Rat falling hard for Tooru very soon, she's a pretty amazing person with a special outlook on life (i know she's a fictional character but I've met more than few rare people with a similar outlook at a young age after going through hardship and one trait they all share is humble modesty). Funny in her talk about how people are like rice balls with plums on their back, and she's the same, she finds it hard to accept compliments and can't see how kind, insightful and caring she herself is. Have a good day. |
23feanorDec 12, 2021 4:54 AM
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23feanor said: I'm afraid he's not, this is still a reverse harem show. And just like a male's harem has to contain certain archetypes (tsundere, loli, girl next door, childhood friend, onee-san etc.) there are similar stereotypes in reverse harems. from what I've seen: tsundere, shota, the leader type, the bad boy, the romantic emo, the sports ace, the artist, the genius etc. Why would women be any different when it comes to wish-fulfillment and protecc instincts? The latter may be even stronger than in males. I haven't seen this many reverse harems, but when I did there was a shota fetish boy in them, often attributed with the "teddy bear" item in his possession. And like lolis, they are often aged up canonically, but still behave like children. Goes together well with the prodigy / genius stereotype as well.Looks like we met the Rabbit Souma when Tooru bumped into him, i thought it was a her at first (aren't some of the Zodiac female?). https://myanimelist.net/character/367/Momiji_Souma https://myanimelist.net/character/79543/Kanato_Sakamaki https://myanimelist.net/character/20/Mitsukuni_Haninozuka https://myanimelist.net/character/67753/Zeno https://myanimelist.net/character/19286/Shouichirou_Yukimura https://myanimelist.net/character/552/Shin 23feanor said: Yes, it's educational TV for somebody who is no stranger to stunted emotions and social ineptness. That's one of the reasons why I watch more than my fair share of josei/shoujo shows. They tend to "explain emotions" in ways I can understand, and this show seems to be really good at it. This show is really growing on me and agree with above comments that I can see why it's so highly praised by everyone that's seen it. |
inimDec 12, 2021 5:27 AM
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| @inim I've never really understood the male shota, accompanied with his teddy bear, do any girls watching shoujo find that stereotype actually attractive beyond being cute and adorable? Well there's always a shota hentai coming out every now and then, so some guys must like it (i suppose being young and having sexy older women forcefully fuck you has got to be a decent power trip, particularly for a young inexperienced male), but do the girls i wonder? Am glad you've picked up Kings Ranking, I've heard some good reports but am going to wait till it's finished then watch the english dub, so will be useful to hear your thoughts. |
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23feanor said: That's a question you should direct to your 3D waifu. My layman theory pretty much equates loli and shota appeal. Both send contradicting messages of "lewd" and "protecc" simultaneously, driving the opposite gender's brain chemistry to wild neuro transmitter fireworks. The other aspect in this show is sexualization, it mildly does so. E.g. why the lowest button on shirts in the ED is open in some shots without need, exposing the belly button? In my take it's just the equivalent of the mid-riff for females. Cross-dressing is a well known female fetish, an this show combines shota with it. Overall, this show doesn't go as far as becoming "female ecchi", but some elements like the open button and a cross-dressing shota qualify as fan service. They still need to sell DVDs and figurines, lol.I've never really understood the male shota, accompanied with his teddy bear, do any girls watching shoujo find that stereotype actually attractive beyond being cute and adorable? Well there's always a shota hentai coming out every now and then, so some guys must like it (i suppose being young and having sexy older women forcefully fuck you has got to be a decent power trip, particularly for a young inexperienced male), but do the girls i wonder? 23feanor said: I've started it prematurely for two reasons. First, German dub is released simultaneously, so no need to wait (will do that for e.g. 86S2 where the dub is delayed). Second I wanted to have seen this for my AOTY decision, as it gets so much praise.I Am glad you've picked up Kings Ranking, I've heard some good reports but am going to wait till it's finished then watch the english dub, so will be useful to hear your thoughts. Verdict: The hype is deserved, this show is radically different from standard anime in the same way Made in Abyss, Kaiba or Girl's Last Tour are. It looks like a Western kids show, but is mature. It also is void of stereotypes by not having black-white hero vs. villain patterns. All characters are humans with their intrinsic motivation who do good and bad things depending on what their drivers require. The character of Kage is completely genuine and used as if it wasn't - they don't make a big deal out of the fact it's really a new idea. And finally, a mute-deaf protagonist and the constant use of (correct!) sign language isn't that odinary either. Just 4 eps in, it's clear this is not your usual anime. It's mature without being edgy. It still has violence and death, it's not hiding how brutal a medieval world is. It feels like a fairy tale for adults, in kids character design. Certainly headed for an 8 or better if it can keep up. |
inimDec 12, 2021 5:59 AM
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| King’s Ranking, Vivy: Fluorite Eye’s Song, Heike Monogatari, Megalobox: Nomad and Mushoku Tensei are the five I most regret not watching this year, but I hope to rectify some of those sooner rather than later if I get the time. The only ones that have really impressed me so far were Odd Taxi and To Your Eternity, should’ve made some better choices for my watchlist this year. The frustrating part is that all of them aside from Mushoku Tensei were early additions to my watchlist, but since they are only available on Funimation and that’s pretty much the sole streaming service I don’t have, I set them aside for other choices. |
whiteflame55Dec 12, 2021 8:27 AM
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whiteflame55 said: King’s Ranking, Vivy: Fluorite Eye’s Song, Heike Monogatari, Megalobox: Nomad and Mushoku Tensei are the five I most regret not watching this year, but I hope to rectify some of those sooner rather than later if I get the time. The only ones that have really impressed me so far were Odd Taxi and To Your Eternity, should’ve made some better choices for my watchlist this year. The frustrating part is that all of them aside from Mushoku Tensei were early additions to my watchlist, but since they are only available on Funimation and that’s pretty much the sole streaming service I don’t have, I set them aside for other choices. Out of that list that I've seen, I would highly recommend Mushoku Tensei and Vivy. Mushoku is getting better and better and this 2nd cour is a masterpiece and I don't use that term lightly, it's a high 10/10. I won't gush too much here but it's high fantasy like Record of Lodoss War (or record of Grancrest War) but with first class writing and character development with care and attention to the animation, background and world building that I've never seen before (apparently pre-production took over 3 years). Vivy was similarly awe inspiring and looked even better than MT, but sci-fi instead of fantasy, i gave Vivy a high 9/10. Can't recommend picking these shows up asap strongly enough. Odd Taxi I still need to watch and have it on my high priority ptw list. |
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23feanor said: Out of that list that I've seen, I would highly recommend Mushoku Tensei and Vivy. Mushoku is getting better and better and this 2nd cour is a masterpiece and I don't use that term lightly, it's a high 10/10. I won't gush too much here but it's high fantasy like Record of Lodoss War (or record of Grancrest War) but with first class writing and character development. Vivy was similarly awe inspiring and looked even better than MT, but sci-fi instead of fantasy, i gave Vivy a high 9/10. Can't recommend picking these shows up asap strongly enough. Odd Taxi I still need to watch and have it on my high priority ptw list. Appreciate the insight. Both Mushoku Tensei and Vivy are the priorities on that list, King’s Ranking being close behind. As soon as I’m done finally watching Erased (it’s been great so far - halfway through), they’re next. As for Odd Taxi, it’s my pick for AOTY, and while my field of view is limited by not having watched these, I think it will remain my pick. It’s quickly become one of my absolute favorites, and well worth the watch. The dialogue is among the best I’ve seen, very Tarantino-esque, and it handles an all anthropomorphic animal cast in a way that is entirely distinct from Beastars. |
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whiteflame55 said: I've put up a quick ranking of all my 2021 watches (inkl.shorts and movies) here:https://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=872133 in the hope it maybe useful. It's not written in stone, just a quick cut/paste job on my completed list an +/-1 point is always subject to discussion.23feanor said: Out of that list that I've seen, I would highly recommend Mushoku Tensei and Vivy. Mushoku is getting better and better and this 2nd cour is a masterpiece and I don't use that term lightly, it's a high 10/10. I won't gush too much here but it's high fantasy like Record of Lodoss War (or record of Grancrest War) but with first class writing and character development. Vivy was similarly awe inspiring and looked even better than MT, but sci-fi instead of fantasy, i gave Vivy a high 9/10. Can't recommend picking these shows up asap strongly enough. Odd Taxi I still need to watch and have it on my high priority ptw list. Appreciate the insight. Both Mushoku Tensei and Vivy are the priorities on that list, King’s Ranking being close behind. As soon as I’m done finally watching Erased (it’s been great so far - halfway through), they’re next. As for Odd Taxi, it’s my pick for AOTY, and while my field of view is limited by not having watched these, I think it will remain my pick. It’s quickly become one of my absolute favorites, and well worth the watch. The dialogue is among the best I’ve seen, very Tarantino-esque, and it handles an all anthropomorphic animal cast in a way that is entirely distinct from Beastars. Most of the titles both of you listed are in my top 10 as well, with the prominent exception of Vivy and Jobless Reincarnation 2. I know how much @23feanor enjoyed them, and it's perfectly. understandable. Production values are flawless for both, writing top-tier for mainstream. Yet, I'm that guy who tends to expect that high values from a big budget production, which means if they are "just" perfectly animated and professionally written that's a 5/10 in their class. I'd add To Your Eternity to that group as well very similar logic. Anyway, all three ended up in the 6.x/10 range, so they are above average popcorn. For 7/10 a show either needs to push it's genre's limits or add "edge". Just perfect isn't good enough for me. Don't hate me for that way of thinking, please. |
inimDec 12, 2021 11:48 AM
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inim said: I've put up a quick ranking of all my 2021 watches (inkl.shorts and movies) here: https://myanimelist.net/blog/inim in the hope it maybe useful. It's not written in stone, just a quick cut/paste job on my completed list an +/-1 point is always subject to discussion. Most of the titles both of you listed are in my top 10 as well, with the prominent exception of Vivy and Jobless Reincarnation 2. I know how much @23eanor enjoyed them, and it's perfectly. understandable. Production values are flawless for both, writing top-tier for mainstream. Yet, I'm that guy who tends to expect that high values from a big budget production, which means if they are "just" perfectly animated and professionally written that's a 5/10 in their class. I'd add To Your Eternity to that group as well very similar logic. Anyway, all three ended up in the 6.x/10 range, so they are above average popcorn. For 7/10 a show either needs to push it's genre's limits or add "edge". Just perfect isn't good enough for me. Don't hate me for that way of thinking, please. Appreciate the frank analysis. I found To Your Eternity to be a pretty solid entry all around, though I can respect your thinking on it. Totally agree with your placement of Scissor Seven S3, which I enjoyed immensely, and it looks like we're agreed that Odd Taxi was fantastic, so you won't get any hate from me (not that you would if you disagreed, but there it is). I'll get to Heike Monogatari and Nomad at some point. I knew the first was good when I saw the crew behind it. I enjoyed the first season of Megalobox even if it's waned a bit in my memory, and I've heard that the second is an improvement. I'll get to both of them soon enough. |
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| @23feanor My favorite sad blue haired robot girl in a dystopia (aka Vivy's imouto) this year was https://myanimelist.net/anime/40778/Planetarian__Snow_Globe and I wonder if you bothered to have a look at her. I'm curious how that show compares for you. Note on the sequel: The original ONA has just her story while the movie is a sequel but contains the ONA nearly completely in flashbacks. Hard to say what is the preferred sequel to the Snow Globe prequel. @whiteflame55 I'm a fan of Joe and by that virtue enjoyed Megalo Box S1. It didn't blow me out of the water though. S2 did, it shifts up two gears over S1. So if you already liked that one, S2 should leave you speechless. |
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| @inim Planetarian Snow Globe is on my medium ptw list and I'm likely to pick up sooner rather than later as it's only 1 episode OVA (there are plenty of times I want to pick up a 1, 2 or 3 ep OVA for something different). The character design reminds me heavily of Chino from GochiUsa. Sounds like an interesting watch. Hopefully will get it ticked off over this winter. |
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| @23feanor (sorry for meandering trough the 2021 anime landscape.) Mushoku Tense S2: That's a tough call for rating, and I'm unsure where to take this discussion. It's a strong contender for the top 10 and made #2 on anidb for a good reason. Animation quality, degree of detail in the world building, backgrounds, fluidity and quality of animation are movie grade. Not a single (cost saving) super-deformed moment and almost no stills. This wasn't cheap. I'm glad your 10/10 made me look into it, it definitely is top 10 material. Here's why I still can't add it to AOTY 2021. What kept echoing in my head is your label high fantasy. To preempt the answer: it's still isekai. It's different from Lodoss Senki here. The protagonist is OP, has memories and know-how from the modern world, and has no social or political goal. This makes the whole thing an action adventure isekai, without the political, military, social and economic aspect of high fantasy. On a scale from Lord Of The Rings and Game of Thrones world building down to Conan the Barbarian (all high fantasy) it's closer to Conan. The lush world is a backdrop and creates external events, but frankly the story isn't about it. It's still about otaku wish-fulfillment power fantasies so typical for isekai. What I agree on is that it's the version with the highest production values I've ever seen. Yet, medieval fantasy isekai can overcome this setting, as seen in 12 Kingdoms, Escaflowne, Grimgar or Strange Dawn. The way Mushoku Tensei S2 uses it's world is the same Star Wars uses it. The many races and high detail reminded me a lot of the bar scenes in that Sci-Fi fairy tale. In a weird way it shares that with an unexpected similar approach: Interspecies Reviewers. Yet a lush backdrop for a simple otaku rags to riches story doesn't make the story better. Maybe there will be more, but 4 episodes in no serious character development is in sight. No true interaction with the world beyond fighting smugglers and other villains of the week / arc. What is growing is the harem and the thankful inhabitants of the world. Which is precisely what a power fantasy is about. The development displayed is loner otaku to socially accepted lady's guy. There is no inner conflict in it, no motivation other than selfishness. Another comparison is Avatar,which also has a unique,detailed and well developed world. Yet, it's story still is a colonial Pocahontas power fantasy. Which why the movie was forgotten quickly. I explicitly don't judge the "pervert" part of the character, others filled forums with that. I've seen shows far more extreme than that. It's merely a facet of wish-fulfillment in my book when the character gets away with creepy behavior. It pays to live in a medieval world, I hope he has fun. Especially as a harem lead and chick magnet without a cause. Overall: The world definitely holds up to high fantasy standards, the characters and story do not. |
inimDec 12, 2021 12:57 PM
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| @inim it's definitely an isekai with it's degenerate protagonist and harem aspects, but the world building has been richer than Honkuzi: Ascendance of a Bookworm and that's praise indeed. In terms of character development, hold your judgement until later in the series. I liked S1 but loved this season, last episode was mind blowing, especially the gods, but don't want to spoil anything so won't say more. If i had to summarise it so far I would say it's an isekai wish fulfilment anime but with some of the most in depth, well crafted and outstanding world building I've ever seen. I'm a huge LoTR fan and the lengths this show has gone to to keep credibility, different languages (people have to learn they don't 'magically' understand other races as so often happens in anime for the ease of plot and story progression) is admirable. In respect to political, economic, social and military aspects, I'm happy to wait and see. Rudy is young and this story is a long one. I'm sure we'll see all these topics covered in due time. We've already seen many different social living groups (demon tribe, Roxy's people, Doldia tribe of beast-people to mention a few) and they all have convincing social structures. I had some misgivings about our MC, but was wondering if the story would have been better if we had the human from Slime isekai, the upstanding guy that becomes a slime, and I don't think so. I think seeing the former person, now rudy grow and learn will be an interesting experience, not too mention it chimes with all the incel otakus watching and reading the series, ie the original target audience. I am biased though, this is peak anime for me, although I wasn't sure how the series would progress. |
23feanorDec 12, 2021 12:59 PM
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| @23feanor I fully agree with your take. From what you write we've seen the same show and the same story progression. We just put the weights differently when it comes to compile that into a rating. In defense of Honkuzi I have to say that one episode of this costs more than a whole season of the Bookworm probably. I still rated Myne higher than Rudeus. Reincarnation has time for good pacing and show don't tell because it has the budget. Unfortunately "tell" is a lot cheaper than "show" in visual media and it's not always the incompetence of the director / writer if boring exposition dumps have to be used. I have absolutely no complaints about the direction and visual story telling in Reincarnation. Like everything else they are very professional and used well. Which makes the story so tightly woven and buys the time better spent on details and characters. Reincarnation does everything right here. Your most important point I totally agree with is: This is peak anime. Yes, it is. Anime's favorite genre currently is isekai and this is the perfect isekai (in terms of production). My fly in the ointment is that it fully lives the trope, without a real attempt to deconstruct or show self-awareness. I'm quite sure this has been discussed in the production team, and they decided not to break the perfect illusion. So yes, peak escapism, which is a value in and by itself and valid goal for media. And hard to achieve, don't think it's easy todo pitch perfect wish-fulfillment :) Star Wars is all about it and easily a 10/10 franchise. That said: I still think this can go as high as 8/10. My comparison here would be AoT which has ratings between 5 and 7 from me. Both share the high production values, the "peak of it's genre" status (which is mecha for AoT,j ust don't tell the fans), and the blockbuster attitude. Both shows deliver without wasting time on 2nd thoughts like deconstruction. They are so to say "the originals others can deconstruct later". Both shows are immersive AF. Another example. Just because Cardcaptor Sakura (CSS) is the pitch perfect classic Magical Girl show doesn't make it bad, quite the opposite. It's not deconstructing anything, it's just perfect at what it puts on the tin. What also speaks in favor of Reincarnation is the simple truth that just like you I'm a sucker for fantasy. The amazing insight from this discussion for me is this: I don't know what to do with a pitch perfect mainstream show in a genre I like it seems. Your "it's peak anime" is a valuable reminder that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. This one will keep me thinking more than many "intellectual" anime. Which probably is a good sign. And to go back to the thread subject: Fruits Basket has a similar feeling about it. |
inimDec 12, 2021 1:36 PM
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| @inim it's funny, i had some similar peeves about the show as you, annoyed that they chose an incel otaku as main character but some stuff happens in the next few eps that have addressed some of my issues and if they continue will lead to genuine character development, However, wish fulfilment anime it undoubtably is, even wrapped in a glorious fantasy world. |
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23feanor said: I went into the cesspool the show's forums are and informed myself. You are right, this is a show with a perspective of ~100 episodes so we haven't seen 80% of it. They seem to take time for the slow buildup and characterization of MC's bad old habits. They just enjoy them a bit too much, lol.In respect to political, economic, social and military aspects, I'm happy to wait and see. Rudy is young and this story is a long one. I'm sure we'll see all these topics covered in due time. We've already seen many different social living groups (demon tribe, Roxy's people, Doldia tribe of beast-people to mention a few) and they all have convincing social structures. Thanks for the heads up, things slowly fall into their places. Who had thought that an isekai required this much research to enjoy. |
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| Hello, @inim i was re-reading our discussion from yesterday and agree that Myne (or Mine, they kept changing the spelling iirc) is a better MC than Rudy, so far anyway, my opinion may change later on as Rudy has grown somewhat in this 2nd cour, but i certainly identify more with Myne than Rudy. I was trying to imagine if a Myne character was the MC of Reincarnation (ie a voracious devourer of knowledge set loose in a fantasy world with abilities and a healthy body), the only downside no harem and ecchi, but an interesting thought experiment nonetheless. You make some good points, sometimes you have to take some anime at face value for what they are, 'a cigar is a cigar' or 'it does what is says on the tin'. Anyway onto episode 4. So we meet a female member of the Souma clan, Kagura, who we think is a cute, shy girl until she punches Cat straight in the face. And she's a member of Zodiac who can hug the male Souma's, plus she thinks Cat is her future husband, so obstacle number 1 for Tooru x Cat romance. Wow is Kagura a crazy, funny yandere. We learn Tooru hasn't had her first love yet, nudge nudge wink wink. Kagura is a Boar, or little piggy. Slow, steady and fun. Have a good day. |
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| Episode 4 introduces a new character into the mix (though, if we’re being honest, it’s more that it fleshes out a character who was just barely introduced at the end of episode 3) who is in love with our cat character and extremely jealous of our beloved MC. Some of the usual tropes ensue to a certain degree as we watch this new girl commit a substantial amount of property damage (feeling pretty bad for Shigure, tbh - he doesn’t have a dog in this fight but his house takes the brunt of it), with our new girl Kaguya flitting between doting girlfriend and a violent yangire (just learned that one, but it feels a little more appropriate than yandere in this context). It’s honestly hard to believe that Kyo is the one trained in martial arts by an expert when he keeps getting his ass solidly handed to him. All of that would just be normal fare for a show like this if not for the heart at its core. Kaguya really does love Kyo, and obsessed though she might appear, she’s really just trying to win his affection in grounded ways, like making a meal he will love. Kyo doesn’t respond well to that, partially because he’s Kyo (pretty sure he just doesn’t get the concept of romance in general), partially because she keeps physically assaulting him (in the PG sense, never goes full yandere), and partially because he just doesn’t feel like he can open up to anyone and be his authentic self. Even in a short conversation with Tooru, we see glimpses of something authentic that isn’t defined by how he feels about others (his love of martial arts) that he immediately regrets revealing because he thinks it’s boring to have brought it up. Like a cat, he bristles when others approach him and pull him out of his comfort zone as Kaguya regularly does, but can be appreciative when he can come to them. Anyway, that’s enough character analysis for this episode. I can’t say that I figured out what Kaguya would be based on her personality, but the boar was an intriguing choice, and now that we know there are 3 women in the Zodiac, things should remain pretty dynamic as we get more of them introduced to us. The loophole that they present with regards to physical contact (that they don’t transform when interacting with others within the Zodiac) is intriguing and they don’t seem to understand why it doesn’t happen. It will definitely complicate any relationship Tooru seeks going forward, as this fact will always yield questions of “am I really the best choice for this person?” as a meaningful question, particularly as there is a sort of “meant to be” nature to this. Add to that this “true form” business, which seems rather serious, and we’ve got some real intrigue going here. Looking forward to the next entry. |
whiteflame55Dec 13, 2021 8:31 AM
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| Episode 4 thanks to @whiteflame55 for introducing me to the new weeb word yangire. The Japanese components are "yan" (batshit) and "gire" (crazy) and it refers to a split personality psycho bitch with violent outbursts her dere personality can't remember seconds after the psychotic manic explosion happened (ICD-10 F25.0). Add a boar-derline personality (rim shot!) for good measure (ICD-10 F60.31). We also learn that there's no part of a Japanese house that can't be fixed with duct tape and rice paper. Boar-chan is madly (rim shot^2!) in love with Cat since they grew up as childhood friends. And after she threatened him to confess to her using two knifes they are engaged since Kindergarten, at least in what is left of her mind. Being so lousy a martial arts expert he gets beaten up easily by a little girl, Cat officially agrees. What other choice he has to stay out of hospital. I consider Boar a comic relief character mainly. While she technically is part of the love polygon Tooru-Cat I don't expect serious problems for the heroine here. The show is not dark and melodramatic enough for School Days or Onee-sama e degrees of mad love. Dr. Tooru Freud has two analytic sessions this episode. One is on rooftop with Cat, where she learns he can have euphoric emotions while talking about his martial arts training. She diagnoses a shy smile below his stoic expression - how lyrical. The other treatment is for Boar-chan and uses the proven "talk while you walk" method on the way home from the supermarket. It show's her dere side to improve the contrast to her rampant yangire personality seen before. I'm not sure Tooru has a cure for F25.0, that's organic. For sure she'll try and her patient is not under treatment for long. Overall: A comedic episode with a lot of slapstick humor. To which I'm usually allergic, but here it was done well and original enough to make an old grump like myself smile. The show continues to brim with tropes yet subverts them immediately so they don't annoy. Good writing. |
inimDec 13, 2021 10:07 AM
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| Hello, Episode 5 and reading your comments @filifjonkan I have never heard of this game "Fruits Basket". If my daughter is half as considerate and kind as Tooru I'll consider my job successful. Wow shitty step family but gramps cuts them down to size with some biting comments "nasty and unpleasant but they're family, so what can I do", you go gramps. Another moving episode. So Tooru is now officially a member of the Souma household. I've got a feeling this show is going to have me in bits by the end. Have a good day. |
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| Episode 5 was very interesting with the focus being placed on Tooru this time and how, by always putting others before herself, she can sometimes put herself in situations where she is depressed or even outright maligned by those around her. Case in point, her family members are dicks. Her female cousin is just frustrating, but her aunt actively had her tailed by a PI because… I guess Tooru’s mother went through a rebellious phase, one that may even have been violent? Not sure what made her suspicious of Tooru herself, or why going to live in a different house when no other option was available makes the comparison plausible, but that’s an intense invasion of privacy based on next to nothing, apparently all for the sake of protecting her son’s reputation. Not that he needs it - the guy is clearly fucked up when he has the gall to suggest they any of the men Tooru was living with took advantage of her. The shit-eating grin and mocking tone really sell this guy as scum in a way that vastly exceeds the other members of her family. Even her aunt, though she’s doing it for the wrong reasons, may be concerned for her to some degree, but he deserves every inch of what’s coming to him. And then, the best dude appears to mete out some much needed justice. There have been many good dudes in this series, but it took one gesture and a single line of dialogue to elevate Tooru’s grandfather to the best. Reminds me a bit of the grandmother from Summer Wars, though he doesn’t need a bladed weapon to hammer his point home. We all knew what Tooru would choose, but she needed to make the choice for herself. It’s frustrating to see that she’s unwilling to defend herself against her own family, though that may change going forward. Her grandfather kept calling her Kyoko, which was not a mistake on his part - he clearly sees a bit of her mother in her, and unlike her aunt, he likes what he sees and wants to nurture it. He knows that, though she puts on a smile, Tooru isn’t happy living with them, or at least that those around her would make her life a living hell, and he wants to give her a chance to thrive. Maybe we’ll see a more assertive Tooru in the future, one who isn’t afraid to tell others what she wants and even clap back at those who are unkind to her. She’s often protected by friends and loved ones, but seems unwilling to defend herself. It was also a solid bit of development on the part of Kyo and Yuki, both of whom decide they want her to stay, but wait until she makes that decision for herself (doing a bit of stalking in the process, but it’s the thought that counts). In that way, though I love that we are now presented with the reason for the titular fruits basket, it’s not quite accurate. She wasn’t just chosen by others, though that is true. She chose for herself as well, joining the eclectic fruits basket of her found family as a willing participant rather than being dragged in at the beck and call of others. Anyway, this one’s my favorite of the first 5 episodes. Good stuff to chew on. |
whiteflame55Dec 14, 2021 6:21 AM
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| Episode 5 gives Tooru's backstory with her aunt's foster family. Tooru is not treated well and fairly by them with the exception of her slightly senile grandfather. The aunt accuses her of living with men, suggests criminal behavior, badmouth Tooru's mom, and even paid a detective to observe Tooru. Her cousins bitch and complain about having to share a room with her and other mean small hostilities. This is not a family, this is a hostile cesspool. Still Tooru tries to be kind, apologetic, friendly and takes all blame even when it's not justified. Eventually her grandpa slaps her cousin after a vile accusation and openly stands in for Tooru. Backdrop to this all is Tooru leaving the zodiac mansion because her family#s home is sufficiently renovated. The scene described happens after she moved in, unintentionally observed by Cat and Rat. The two take Tooru with them again, after making it clear to the aunt family they suck. Grandpa support it, he's strongly on Tooru's side. So eventually Tooru has a de-facto new family. the Zodiacs. Under one roof scenario cemented and justified. Overall: This was serious family drama, almost no comedy tis episode except grandpa using a wrong name as running gag. The show is using the full range and does melodrama very well this episode (*sob*). |
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| Hello, Hope you're all well today. Firstly a thank you to @whiteflame55 for your engagement and comments, I'm sure @inim and @filifjonkan appreciate your insights as much as I do. Episode 6. So we meet 2 new members of the Souma family, one half German-half Japanese cute shota, who I'm guessing is the Bunny Zodiac. And yes in the next scene we discover he is a bunny. I like Tooru's friends, Wave girl and Punk gyaru. What's the betting that the cap, Tooru's momento belonged to Cat or Rat. "Deserves the moon but would never ask for it", said Rat about Tooru, then we see Dog meeting another yet unidentified Souma, a thin lady, who tells Dog "i know, i always ask for the moon". Foreshadowing future intrigues with Tooru and the Zodiac. This show has a way of feeling like not much is happening, or the usual anime stuff, school festival, friends coming over etc but in the background and dialogue there is a lot of hidden comments dropped here and there, a trail of breadcrumbs for the story. Have a good day. |
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| My pleasure, @23feanor. It’s nice to be able to discuss ongoing series like this. Onto episode 6. This one seems to be setting up for some bigger trouble down the road. We are reintroduced to the young blonde German member of the Zodiac (who is appropriately the rabbit), as well as an older figure who everyone seems nervous about, which doesn’t immediately get explained. He has a bit of a cold demeanor, but his actions speak more to a sort of doting older sibling. It isn’t until we’re told why Tooru shouldn’t be alone with him that things get ominous: he’s responsible for somehow removing or altering the memories of previous people who discovered their secrets. In that regard, he’s not putting on a facade - he’s still the doting older brother figure, but he’s clearly willing to do whatever it takes to keep their secrets. That being said, it’s hard to imagine a scenario where he has invited Tooru over just to repeat the process. There will probably be some intense discussion where he will decide whether she warrants such a response. Maybe she’ll have a similar effect on him as on the others, though I suspect she will have more trouble with this one. Some other, smaller scenes set up big confrontations as well. As @23feanor already pointed out, that scene with what is probably one of the two remaining unknown female Zodiac members hints at what is likely to be confrontation between Tooru and this mysterious woman who exhibit two sides of the same coin - Tooru the one who deserves the moon and won’t ask for it, and this woman who will ask for the moon but perhaps may not deserve it. Whether she will be a figure for Tooru to learn from or the source of future disruptions to her life remains to be seen. After the emotional heights of the last episode, this one felt a bit muted. It did have a solid bit with Tooru’s friends come over to the house to appraise her found family and to sleep over (appreciate that it didn’t include much in the way of fanservice - this was a serious scene after all). They clearly care for her and are concerned about these people that have dropped into her life taking their place, but soon realize that they fulfill a role in Tooru’s life that is separate from theirs, one that they can be trusted with holding. Whether that remains the case going forward is an open question, but given both her family and friends now approve of her accommodations, the story can build on those relationships without questioning their existence as much as they have. It’s a good launching point for the next several episodes, and I’m interested to see where it goes. |
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| Episode 5 extends the circle of known zodiac animal characters, deepens Tooru's friendship with Wavegirl and Thuggirl, and is the most fan service savvy episode so far. It's hard to describe an actual plot, but a lot more happens compared to mere slice of life. This type of writing isn't seen too often, from what I've seen Honey & Clover, Genshiken or Kuragehime come to mind. It's a lot more like a living sociogram a there isn't much of an external driver, theme, goal or threat. It's people having interpersonal relations developing and small events. The events are: the introduction of the family doctor Souma (zodiac: not yet revealed) and the Japano-German Rabbit shota. The doctor is a mysterious and somewhat dark appearance, and he is in charge of wiping out memories. The rabbit, as expected, behaves cheerful, over-sugared and childish. Then there's a sleepover of Wavegirl and Thuggirl, who become friends of the Zodiac family. Tooru at night tells a childhood story in which she got lost and was guided by a mysterious boy with a baseball cap. Which she as been seen to keep as an artifact of her first childhood love, as she confesses. Thus we got three more characters with backstories to explore: Rabbit, Amnesia Doc, and Cap Boy. As for the tropes, we see less and less of them, the character driven drama takes over. I've hardly seen a culture festival in an anime in which the event itself was unimportant. They checked the box but it wasn't more than a backdrop. Well played. Overall: I'd argue the show now officially qualifies for the "ensemble cast" tag. The episode was quite typical for this, and as usual well written and directed. The show is very versatile in it's story elements and techniques. Prediction: next stop tragedy, the doctor's phone call at the end was quite unsettling and mysterious. |
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whiteflame55 said: There was quite a bit of fan service in the episode, cross dressing Rat, shota Rabbit, and Rat even pulled a mildly deconstructive fan service joke on roof top. This is shoujo, and they are not interested in bare chested ladies or low camera angles. Girl sleepover fan service would be male gaze, I don't expect to see that in this series. Compare to Kaleido Star, which could be male gaze fan service paradise with all it's athletic circus girls in stage outfits. Not one male gaze shot in it. Expect bare chested bishis rather, as seen on rooftop when Rat changed cloth.sleep over (appreciate that it didn’t include much in the way of fanservice - this was a serious scene after all). |
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| @inim point taken. I'm more thinking about this from the male gaze rather than the female one, and that's clearly not the right way to be looking at this series. |
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| Hello, Onto episode 7. So the possible threat we were shown at the end of the last episode turns out to be a dire warning from Hatori (Zodiac as yet unknown), who warns Tooru that being close to the Souma family (i noticed it was spelt Soma on the front gate?) will only bring her pain in the end. We learn of Hatori's tragic connection to a past girlfriend and fiancee who had her memories wiped after Akito attacked him. Aktio and the Souma clan and their curse clearly have heavy real life implications for anyone who gets close. Hatori's stance in not blaming Akito must be based on a feeling of guilt towards Akito, therefore Akito must bear some terrible burden as part of the Zodiac curse. Does that entitle him to be an ass and prevent other members of the Souma family from being happy though? I'm sure Tooru freud will get to the bottom of that question in due time. So Hatori is a seahorse, hmmm, i had no idea there was a seahorse member of the Zodiac, or is he like Cat and not an official member. That Akito needs a smack in the mouth, another emotional backstory seeing Kana and Hatori. Tooru would never smack him in the mouth, but hug him and be understanding, maybe she will melt Akito's cold heart. So Tooru does indeed bring a small ray of sunshine into Hatori's life and wins him over. Old style Japanese homes, with paper sliding doors must be freezing in the winter, no wonder they love kotasu's. We have thick brick walls and central heating and I'm still cold all wrapped up in a jumper. I can't imagine living in a place with paper and plaster walls only and no central heating. Have a good day. |
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23feanor said: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeahorsesAreDragonsSo Hatori is a seahorse, hmmm, i had no idea there was a seahorse member of the Zodiac, or is he like Cat and not an official member. These odd features have led it to be associated with Eastern Dragons. According to some legends a seahorse is a baby dragon, and thus seahorses are often tied to dragons. Like Dinosaurs Are Dragons, this is largely an Eastern culture trope: most notably, the Japanese word for seahorse, "tatsu-no-otoshigo", literally means "dragon's bastard child." Maybe it's just me, but Hatori's appearance and character reminded me of Fafnir from Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. From the entry's "anime and manga" specific comment on Fruits Basket: |
inimDec 16, 2021 4:23 AM
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| Keeping this one short today due to time constraints. Episode 7 gives us some welcome backstory on the Souma clan and its leadership, perhaps giving us some insight into why our lead trio have decided not to live in the compound. Clearly, the power dynamics with Akito have yielded some… disquieting results that explain Hatori’s cold demeanor, particularly with the loss of his the woman he planned to marry. I can see that he’s trying to be happy for her, but in some ways, he seems to be trying to convince himself of that. It’s clearly hard on him to watch her have a happy life with no memories of him while he carries all of their experiences with him. Perhaps to some degree, he’ll have to learn the same lesson that Tooru is: to want things for himself and not just for others. Akito would still stand in the way, of course, so he will eventually have to confront the character he says he doesn’t blame for losing her from his life (don’t quite get why not, but his ties to family may be part of the problem here, as may be a respect for authority that may come from other elements of his backstory). Super sweet moment at the end where Tooru gives the same answer to his question that his girl gave to him, though not unexpected. It’s a little trope-y, sure, but incredibly endearing nonetheless. I know we’ve mentioned this before, but even when it’s leaning into tropes, this series really manages to do something with them that makes them feel uniquely authentic. I will say that one of the sweeter moments in this - when Tooru tells the rabbit Zodiac member that despite only knowing him for a short time, she still treasures him like the central 3 and he seems deeply touched by that - really capitalized on the kind of person she is and how that affects those around her. It’s a bit of darkness wrapped in sweetness this episode and I’m here for it. |
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