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| Hmm first of all, yes the Chinese didn't sound quite right and that struck me straight away, but I'm pleased they decided to include it, as it adds to the flavour, and is no worse than them butchering English/French/German. Now, I really loved the atmosphere of the anime, partly because this happens to be my first war-time historical anime that I have watched. As a non-Asian, and someone who knows only a few facts about the pre-war situation in Eastern Asia, it should prove to be an enlightening watch. As will reading the comments on MAL about the historical accuracy, and the debate above has certainly prompted me to look up the period to gain a better understanding. As an anime, the fantastical elements look interesting, as do the characters, and the animation and music are very good. This won't be an excellent show, but I do look forward to seeing how it progresses, and think it will be one of my favourites from this season. And anyway, the (potential?) controversy just makes it even more interesting to watch. However, as posters have said above it must be treated as a fantastical anime WITHIN a historical setting, which will be prone to inaccuracies and bias. Hopefully the researchers for the anime have done their work and produce a roughly accurate background for the more-important action and fantasy to take place in. 3.5/5 |
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| So how about that Inglourious Basterds? |
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| Japan's imperialism was fuckin' gorgeous. Rape of Nanking was an EPIC! I love it! Fuck the chinese communist cunts |
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| Not bad I wonder if this spring 2010's gem so far all the anime that start this April aren't worth the time or the money put in them is you ask me. |
Jon_Naise said: Sadly, It is most likely they will not. Rumour says that there will be appearance of Korean, too. About for 99% of possibility, this anime will have nationalistic and imperialistic approach from Japan, which is bad. Apparently, in asian site other than Japan, this anime is getting attacked even more now, although I totally understand it as being Asian Myself. Hopefully the researchers for the anime have done their work and produce a roughly accurate background for the more-important action and fantasy to take place in. The problem is, if this anime goes with accurate historical background, it will definitely get flamed from 'Japan's side where rightists are in upper side in terms of amount. So, this anime 'MUST' have rightist approach in order to actually sell. |
ringoo4 said: Jon_Naise said: Sadly, It is most likely they will not. Rumour says that there will be appearance of Korean, too. About for 99% of possibility, this anime will have nationalistic and imperialistic approach from Japan, which is bad. Apparently, in asian site other than Japan, this anime is getting attacked even more now, although I totally understand it as being Asian Myself. Hopefully the researchers for the anime have done their work and produce a roughly accurate background for the more-important action and fantasy to take place in. The problem is, if this anime goes with accurate historical background, it will definitely get flamed from 'Japan's side where rightists are in upper side in terms of amount. So, this anime 'MUST' have rightist approach in order to actually sell. It's always nice to see how one side accuses the other of being totally ignoring certain aspects, while being totally stubborn about their own approach as well. Do you even know anything about Japanese politics? Honestly this is an anime. There is no 'imperialistic approach' from the Japanese side nowadays, if at all it's a nationalistic stance, which most countries have in their popular culture. Of course an anime won't go around and portray the main characters as murdering bastards who rape women and children...but that is not the only thing that happened in the 1930's. I think some people should really stop acting like they were around during those times. |
Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| Hell, they want anime that tells their side of the story or is relatively objective? then they can make their own :P it's fairly obvious, if japan have monopol in anime market, it always WILL be full of nationalism. Question is, do i as a viewer, care? Of course not ;) |
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dPsychc said: Japan's imperialism was fuckin' gorgeous. Rape of Nanking was an EPIC! I love it! Fuck the chinese communist cunts Nice trolling...but please don't make this discussion escalate more LOL. I think everyone should wait a few more episodes before continuing this discussion.... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
dPsychc said: Japan's imperialism was fuckin' gorgeous. Rape of Nanking was an EPIC! I love it! Fuck the chinese communist cunts The Chinese were not communist at that time, retard. The leaders of China at that time was the KMT; did you even watch the episode? |
 Thanks, person who gave me this on another site a long time ago, lol. |
guyklc said: dPsychc said: Japan's imperialism was fuckin' gorgeous. Rape of Nanking was an EPIC! I love it! Fuck the chinese communist cunts The Chinese were not communist at that time, retard. The leaders of China at that time was the KMT; did you even watch the episode? LOL obviously he was just trolling.... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| anime is srs fkn biz |
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| All I can say, this season anime discussion = WAR. |
 "A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie." |
Cenedess said: ilikeyouevenmore said: WoofSadaharu said: HA-HA-HA-HAforced laugh.. HA-HA-HA-HA I know XD LULZ, I thought I was the only one xD But wow, this is quite a way to open a big can-of-worms. I'm not going to comment on the history part because.... well, I am not watching this show just for that. Humans are horrible in general & I think we can all agree upon that :/ We all make mistakes -shrug- Putting that aside, I thought this episode was pretty neat. It was a bit boring but the action scenes made up for it. The teleportation part was the coolest though. I wish I could do that :( I also love love love the music score. I'll definitely be checking out the OST when it comes out ♥ |
Bunny-kinsApr 9, 2010 11:02 PM
ringoo4 said: Jon_Naise said: Sadly, It is most likely they will not. Rumour says that there will be appearance of Korean, too. About for 99% of possibility, this anime will have nationalistic and imperialistic approach from Japan, which is bad. Apparently, in asian site other than Japan, this anime is getting attacked even more now, although I totally understand it as being Asian Myself. Hopefully the researchers for the anime have done their work and produce a roughly accurate background for the more-important action and fantasy to take place in. The problem is, if this anime goes with accurate historical background, it will definitely get flamed from 'Japan's side where rightists are in upper side in terms of amount. So, this anime 'MUST' have rightist approach in order to actually sell. Wow! Talk about jumping the gun! (Rumors huh?) Can't blame you much though, i guess the Korean nationalist inside you is over reacting. |
Siva said: More like politic....I hate them to bring up the politic system in this forum.All I can say, this season anime discussion = WAR. ( i think this subject are too sensitive to touch,one false sentence can bring discourtesy to other party ) |
| isit just me or did aoi start closing a door by pulling it inwards (with his "ability"), then in the next cut, he was closing it by pushing it outward? also, i'm very surprised they can infiltrate a headquarter full of chinese men (or anywhere in china for that matter) with that kinda chinese pronunciation edit: ok that mightve sounded confusing so i editted it |
dxthegreatApr 10, 2010 6:19 AM
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| yeah, the chinese was awkward . . . but I like the idea of the show and the animation rocks! Looking forward to the next episode. |
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| This anime's threads will become war because of trolls and hypocrites. If this were instead, a Hollywood movie on how American troops "liberated" Iraq, I'm willing to bet all of you hypocrites who told me that each country has its own propaganda will be more than happy to jump in on the America-bashing. |
Thanks, person who gave me this on another site a long time ago, lol. |
guyklc said: This anime's threads will become war because of trolls and hypocrites. If this were instead, a Hollywood movie on how American troops "liberated" Iraq, I'm willing to bet all of you hypocrites who told me that each country has its own propaganda will be more than happy to jump in on the America-bashing. If it would show the people of Iraq celebrating over their freedom and paint a picture of a now happy country full of blossoming flowers, yes I would criticize it. But if it would just depict what happened from the point of view of the Americans...well at the worst it is one-sided and draws some stupid people in. China and Korea are full of propaganda and nationalistic ideals, too. Not to mention that the president of South-Korea is a right-wing politician...just because it was mentioned that Japan is Oh-so-right. I think some people should step down a bit from portraying themselves as the victims of a horrible crime here, because that is what makes it so hard to take the Asian countries serious in this debate. |
| Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| I just realized that all of this is about BAWWWWW on how history is being portrayed so inaccurately in a fictional work but nobody has mentioned that China is doing the exact same thing right now with Tiananmen Square. |
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seizonsha said: guyklc said: This anime's threads will become war because of trolls and hypocrites. If this were instead, a Hollywood movie on how American troops "liberated" Iraq, I'm willing to bet all of you hypocrites who told me that each country has its own propaganda will be more than happy to jump in on the America-bashing. If it would show the people of Iraq celebrating over their freedom and paint a picture of a now happy country full of blossoming flowers, yes I would criticize it. But if it would just depict what happened from the point of view of the Americans...well at the worst it is one-sided and draws some stupid people in. China and Korea are full of propaganda and nationalistic ideals, too. Not to mention that the president of South-Korea is a right-wing politician...just because it was mentioned that Japan is Oh-so-right. I think some people should step down a bit from portraying themselves as the victims of a horrible crime here, because that is what makes it so hard to take the Asian countries serious in this debate. I think, just to make sure, I will reiterate that so far, it's too early to judge if this anime will be right-wing propaganda. My arguments for the most part, apply to the people who keep telling me to shut up about history, and not so much about the show itself. I will update my views on this show as it progresses. Wasabi said: I just realized that all of this is about BAWWWWW on how history is being portrayed so inaccurately in a fictional work but nobody has mentioned that China is doing the exact same thing right now with Tiananmen Square. Terrible comparison. So just because the Communist Party of China (which I and most overseas Chinese don't even support) committed a massacre back in 1989 (it is 2010 right now), it's OK for Japan to whitewash history? Also, it's LUDICROUS to compare Tiananmen Massacre to Japan's Rape of Nanjing or killings at Shanghai (Shanghai was actually more damaged than Nanjing, but since Shanghai was at war, while Nanjing surrendered, more Chinese hold grudges at Nanjing than in Shanghai). The Communists killed hundreds, at most thousands, in Tiananmen to put down a REBELLION so that China won't be thrown into chaos again. On the other hand, Japan killed HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Chinese lives for FUN, EXPERIMENT, and all the other weird shit you can't possibly imagine. While both should be condemned, the horrors between Tiananmen and Japanese atrocities such as Nanjing just cannot be compared. |
Thanks, person who gave me this on another site a long time ago, lol. |
guyklc said: Terrible comparison. So just because the Communist Party of China (which I and most overseas Chinese don't even support) committed a massacre back in 1989 (it is 2010 right now), it's OK for Japan to whitewash history? Also, it's LUDICROUS to compare Tiananmen Massacre to Japan's Rape of Nanjing or killings at Shanghai (Shanghai was actually more damaged than Nanjing, but since Shanghai was at war, while Nanjing surrendered, more Chinese hold grudges at Nanjing than in Shanghai). The Communists killed hundreds, at most thousands, in Tiananmen to put down a REBELLION so that China won't be thrown into chaos again. On the other hand, Japan killed HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Chinese lives for FUN, EXPERIMENT, and all the other weird shit you can't possibly imagine. While both should be condemned, the horrors between Tiananmen and Japanese atrocities such as Nanjing just cannot be compared. Where did you even get the idea that I was attempting compare two atrocities' to see which one is more super duper evil? My point was you're blasting Japan for whitewashing history and spreading "propaganda" while there are other countries out there doing the exact same thing (ie. China denying Tiananmen Square). Their reasons for denying their respective pieces of history is complete moot. Fact is regardless of whatever reasons they had, it's still an attempt to deny it so. |
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| Well, back to the anime. The fact that what was going on was poorly explained it left a bad taste in my mouth. Apparently some characters have limits to there powers? Do they lose time when they use it? The annoying guy said don't live to fast... The action was awesome either way! |
| OK, I'm done ranting in this thread for now. As ericacsy and many others have pointed out, this is completely derailing from the topic. I will post new rants in future episodes if I feel there is a need to (hopefully, there won't be, but you just can't tell with a setting like this) |
Thanks, person who gave me this on another site a long time ago, lol. |
guyklc said: OK, I'm done ranting in this thread for now. As ericacsy and many others have pointed out, this is completely derailing from the topic. I will post new rants in future episodes if I feel there is a need to (hopefully, there won't be, but you just can't tell with a setting like this) Thank God. The problem with you was that there wasn't any need to YET. I'm afraid how much you will rant when there actually is a need to do it. |
Monad said: guyklc said: OK, I'm done ranting in this thread for now. As ericacsy and many others have pointed out, this is completely derailing from the topic. I will post new rants in future episodes if I feel there is a need to (hopefully, there won't be, but you just can't tell with a setting like this) Thank God. The problem with you was that there wasn't any need to YET. I'm afraid how much you will rant when there actually is a need to do it. Lol! I'm sure when that time comes, i won't be the only one. |
Thanks, person who gave me this on another site a long time ago, lol. |
| Wow, they actually used Mandarin. Well, the speaking was weird and clunky but it's still commendable for actually trying. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| looks good so far :) one of the better series so far... |
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| I really really liked it, possibly the best anime of this season? |
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Hmmm, I'm happy with it. That was intriguing enough to keep me wanting more. |
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Wasabi said: Not to mention about Arab countries abusing their marriage rights to kids nor about how North Korea treats its citizens with brutal police.....Wasabi is right about one thing BAWWWWW and the other thing is fictional work.....it's nor worth going over history in fiction.I just realized that all of this is about BAWWWWW on how history is being portrayed so inaccurately in a fictional work but nobody has mentioned that China is doing the exact same thing right now with Tiananmen Square. |
 In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| Call it of topic, I think it's actually quite relevant since it'll potentially be a major source of contention about this series. To the whole Japan history subject, here's the big issue: How will the series handle the historical source material? Answer: To early to call, jury's still out on that. "This stuff happened 70 years ago, let it go." I'll accept that attitude, people always need to move on from the past. Going off of that, finger pointing calling out who did worse, during what era is stupid. Historical accuracy matters though, sugar coating the horrible things ANY side has done regardless of bias is a terrible way to go. And that leads to my major complaint: "Every country distorts history" - Using that or any other similar argument to show a blatant lack of respect for what happened is absurd. You can assume someone's gonna try and distort history, but for god's sake it'd be retarded to not fight lies. Whether it's the subject of the US and Phillipines or Japan and China in the 1930's I hope whoever handles the subject does so with care. Cause every time history gets white washed we take a step back towards repeating those mistakes. "Japan did horrible things to China" I don't care about that. I do care about the horrible things humans do to each other, back and forth. |
schwegburtApr 11, 2010 12:17 AM
| I know nothing about the intricacies of China/Japan/Korea tensions during this time period, being an ignorant American. Thusly, I will only comment on the coherency of the plot, and all the other mechanics of the episode/show going forward. As such, I don't see what the big fuss is over the show from that standpoint. The production values are high, but as of the first episode, there was little to no effort in introducing the characters outside of their powers, and that worries me a little for a 13 episode show. So far, it feels like they'll have to juggle plot, politics, characters, fantasy, and historical fiction. Part of me feels like this episode was a bit wasted because it went into details about politics without setting up the structure, and then proceeded to do run-of-the-mill infiltration with the flair of telepathic abilities. Then the bad attempts at comedy only further put me off from what was going on. It also doesn't help that all of the characters are very generic in design and quite uninspired from that standpoint. I hope it gets better because I love all the ideas at the core. It has almost every single element that I adore. |
| And yet the heated debate continues....and I think people are slightly off-topic. WHERE ARE FORUM MODERATORS. Please open another topic that discuss this historical debate. this is an EPISODE DISCUSSION. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| ^^I honestly doubt any mods are going in here for modding a historical debate. noteDhero said: I know nothing about the intricacies of China/Japan/Korea tensions during this time period, being an ignorant American. Same here. I'm like "I'm either incredibly uneducated or everybody on MAL is more foreign than I thought." (probably both) Confusing but interesting first episode. I don't know that much Chinese but from the little I do know, even I could tell it was like "what the hell are they saying?" I liked the spy music a lot though. It was confusing for a first episode but entertaining, I'll give it that. Plus, anime-original's are always a good thing. Oh, and HA-HA-HA-HA! |
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| for once, i wish these types of series were more than 13 episodes. it changes from the fan service present in most high-school centric series. |
noteDhero said: I know nothing about the intricacies of China/Japan/Korea tensions during this time period, being an ignorant American. This is why many Chinese/Koreans are upset. It's the coverup and ignoring of atrocities such as these. If Senkou no Night Raid portrays the Japanese in a positive light, a lot of people would be outraged because of such attitude that is prevalent in Japan. Read these foreign accounts. And keep in mind this is just a few foreigners account. These actions occured throughout a city that had surrendered. This wasn't a few bad apples, but pratically the whole Japanese army. 300,000 massacred, 20,000 raped in 6 weeks of occupation in one city alone. All the while they were handing out pamphlets such as this to the chinese citizens which shows japanese soldiers playing with chinese children.  On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. The door was open by the landlord, a Mohammedan named Ha. They killed him immediately with a revolver and also Mrs. Ha, who knelt before them after Ha's death, begging them not to kill anyone else. Mrs. Ha asked them why they killed her husband and they shot her dead. Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. Some soldiers then went to the next room, where Mrs. Hsia's parents, aged 76 and 74, and her two daughters aged 16 and 14. They were about to rape the girls when the grandmother tried to protect them. The soldiers killed her with a revolver. The grandfather grasped the body of his wife and was killed. The two girls were then stripped, the elder being raped by 2–3 men, and the younger by 3. The older girl was stabbed afterwards and a cane was rammed in her vagina. The younger girl was bayoneted also but was spared the horrible treatment that had been meted out to her sister and mother. The soldiers then bayoneted another sister of between 7–8, who was also in the room. The last murders in the house were of Ha's two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword. The seventh and last person in the first row was a pregnant woman. The soldier thought he might as well rape her before killing her, so he pulled her out of the group to a spot about ten meters away. As he was trying to rape her, the woman resisted fiercely ... The soldier abruptly stabbed her in the belly with a bayonet. She gave a final scream as her intestines spilled out. Then the soldier stabbed the fetus, with its umbilical cord clearly visible, and tossed it aside. It's basically as if Germany denied the Holocaust til this day. If they made an animated film that portrayed Nazis in a positive light, wouldn't the Jews be outraged? |
foo82Apr 11, 2010 10:11 PM
| All of that is understandable, and true, but I don't think that has happened in this show yet. I'm not sure, so since I don't want to step on anyone's toes, I'd rather not even speculate. I would, however, like to talk about the merits of the show outside of unfortunate geo-political bias. |
noteDhero said: Exactly on the same train of thoughts....but me I want to see the powers of these people shape up and change things.....I would like that from you all so it will be interesting talking about the changes in the historical context.All of that is understandable, and true, but I don't think that has happened in this show yet. I'm not sure, so since I don't want to step on anyone's toes, I'd rather not even speculate. I would, however, like to talk about the merits of the show outside of unfortunate geo-political bias. |
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| This is just a fuckin anime and some people make it sound like Discovery Channel. |
"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie." |
Siva said: I will agree with you Siva on this one.This is just a fuckin anime and some people make it sound like Discovery Channel. |
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
foo82 said: noteDhero said: I know nothing about the intricacies of China/Japan/Korea tensions during this time period, being an ignorant American. This is why many Chinese/Koreans are upset. It's the coverup and ignoring of atrocities such as these. If Senkou no Night Raid portrays the Japanese in a positive light, a lot of people would be outraged because of such attitude that is prevalent in Japan. [...] It's basically as if Germany denied the Holocaust til this day. If they made an animated film that portrayed Nazis in a positive light, wouldn't the Jews be outraged? It's not a prevelant stream in Japan, just one of many that exist today concerning the history of WW2. Most of my friends from Japan admit that it was horrible what the Japanese military did back then, but it is nothing for which the people of today could be held responsible. It would be like blaming me for what my Great Grandfather did in WW1... And like many people said, so far the anime has taken no steps to actually portray any of both sides as either perfectly good or perfectly evil. Many times when the Nanking Massacre is quoted, people talk of the acts of 'Japan', without even asking what that meant during those days. Also the fact that those acts were all put on trial and the responsible people got the death sentence is highly ignored against the much more famous Nürnberg Trials. Nobody here is trying to say that the rest of East Asia should ignore the fact, that Japan still has fractions which ignore their past, or that they should forget about what happened. But time moves on and while Japan has agreed to a pact that took the ability of opening a war of agression ever again, the rest of East Asia is still pretty much actively fighting and killing among each other... If you look into history as an outsider who is not really connected to any of both sides, it slightly comes across as bigotry. It's like East Asia is trying to make any crime they might have commited and might ever commit vanish against the horror of Nanking. While it was true horror and something that deserved to be punished, Japan and Germany were not the only two military forces whose people used the war as an excuse to wreck havoc...or is it right for an American soldier to decapitate a Japanese and send the skull back home as a souvenir, with the sentence 'Only a dead Jap is a good Jap"?! |
| Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| I checked out this series because of the ridiculously high scores the first episode got on Anime News Network and, while I wasn't wowed by it, I'll definitely keep watching this series. I'm glad the supernatural powers didn't take away from the show's historical setting, plus I can't wait to see whether or not the Rape of Nanjing plays a part in this. |
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foo82 said: noteDhero said: All of that is understandable, and true, but I don't think that has happened in this show yet. I'm not sure, so since I don't want to step on anyone's toes, I'd rather not even speculate. I would, however, like to talk about the merits of the show outside of unfortunate geo-political bias. I understand that. I'm just basically explaining why people would be upset if they portrayed these Japanese as heroes to the people of China. To do so would be pissing on the graves of all those that died. If they were going a fantasy/supernatural route, they could have picked a less controversial setting/timeline. Hell even making up fictitious countries would have been better. Since you UNDERSTAND that, and the anime didn't show anything like that yet WHY ARE PEOPLE TALKING LIKE IT DID!!!!!!!!!!!!! Explaining why people might be upset if the anime shows something like that? Well if my ass shit gold i would have been a rich man. If only. |
| Guys, guys, how about I make a thread for Japanese propaganda/war crimes here? That way, all of you guys who want to rant can rant there, and all of you guys who are interested can go there and read. That way, we won't have to spam this thread up with offtopic historical rants. Final note: I want to say that only a TINY group of war criminals were executed. General Douglas MacArthur pardoned the vast majority of the war criminals (because one, I believe he was racist against the Chinese, he did, after all, proposed to nuke China into oblivion, which got him sacked from President Truman; and two, he needed Japan as America's puppet state, so he can't be too "cruel" to the Japanese); and the other, was an Indian judge by the name of Pal, who was a presiding judge during the war crime trial. He pardoned the Japanese war criminals because he thought it was hypocritical for Westerners to judge Japan based on Imperialism while the Western world was imperialistic as well. Of course, Pal didn't give a shit about the Chinese or Korean people's suffering; he just hated the West so much that he didn't even care if destroying the West meant destroying the Chinese and Koreans. So... the reasons why Chinese and Koreans are so upset are because Japan GOT AWAY WITH MOST OF ITS CRIMES, and not only that, but the vast majority of the world are HELPING Japan in denying her war crimes. |
Thanks, person who gave me this on another site a long time ago, lol. |
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