Tylaen said: Esquirtit said: I'm just replying anyway to spite you and also to inform you that you did, in fact, ask me how.End this, don't reply. Esquirtit said: then explain how and why it should be removed. If all you say is that it's offensive, then there is no room for understanding and conversation. That's all folks! Oh, maybe I had in mind that you would confess to be a SJW or something. I mean the answer is clear, through SHAMING people. Gotta them to think that through their fault, they are in fact harming someone out there one way or another. |
| poop |
Esquirtit said: I'm aware you've already found your truth, mate. Tylaen said: I'm just replying anyway to spite you and also to inform you that you did, in fact, ask me how. That's all folks! Oh, maybe I had in mind that you would confess to be a SJW or something. I mean the answer is clear, through SHAMING people. Gotta them to think that through their fault, they are in fact harming someone out there one way or another. |
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Tylaen said: Esquirtit said: I'm aware you've already found your truth, mate. Oh, maybe I had in mind that you would confess to be a SJW or something. I mean the answer is clear, through SHAMING people. Gotta them to think that through their fault, they are in fact harming someone out there one way or another. If this is supposed to be sarcasm, reminder you've called lolicons actual pedophiles. |
| poop |
| It'd be nice if more people realized that drawings ≠ real life. |
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Of course, it's important that we, as westerners, understand that we're talking about a completely different culture and that we can't examine anime through the same lens as we would do with other cartoons (BoJack Horseman i.e). But that doesn't mean that just because something it's from a different culture it can't be judged by people outside of it. It also doesn't mean that we can't be happy when we see things that acknowledge the existence and the validity of those minorities I previously talked about. Nah, Japan doesn't need a safe space on an English speaking anime forum protected by white-samurais who'll duel you to the death with their wakizashi and katana at the ready to slay anyone who dares criticize the motherland. Say whatever you want about them and their cartoons. |
iorn said: Or it's because they're normally shit characters that have about three personality traits and only exist to be rescued or pine after a male character. Almost everything on your meager completed list is battle shounen so how would you even know if harem and moe characters lack depth? |
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| @Esquirtit I just hate how they turn "Art can influence reality" to stuff like "Ecchi fans are basically going to be sexual harassers and rapists." It's such an unnuanced, dehumanizing, black and white way to view the topic. I didn't know I was pretty much a barbaric sociopath with no grasp on morality or basic decency. I'm glad they're here to guide me in the right direction. It's just stuff like videogames can desensitize people to violence, sure. But there's a reason that we don't have public shootings every other week in Europe despite having the same fuckin' videogames. It's also more likely that the capitulation to this aspect of American society and how frequently people hear about it as an aspect to their society will be more desensitizing than just dicking around in Grand Theft Auto. Do something about your Gun-Fetishizing conservatives and the role they play in your society before blaming it on media. |
ManabanApr 5, 2020 5:26 PM
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Manaban said: @Esquirtit I just hate how they turn "Art can influence reality" to stuff like "Ecchi fans are basically going to be sexual harassers and rapists." It's such an unnuanced, dehumanizing, black and white way to view the topic. I didn't know I was pretty much a barbaric sociopath with no grasp on morality or basic decency. I'm glad they're here to guide me in the right direction. It's just stuff like videogames can desensitize people to violence, sure. But there's a reason that we don't have public shootings every other week in Europe despite having the same fuckin' videogames. It's also more likely that the capitulation to this aspect of American society and how frequently people hear about it as an aspect to their society will be more desensitizing than just dicking around in Grand Theft Auto. The general concensus in the anime community always seems to have been that ecchi fans were the weirdest. They want to push it further and literally ''cancel'' it by making these retaded accusations. It's straight up bullying and shaming. Older anime fans, newer ones, they all gonna want to distantiate from it more and more as anime grows in popularity. I mean yeah it's mostly the kids who ''naturally'' grew up to be detached from their surroundings who are gonna turn into school shooters because the ones who did it before them were also the isolated kids, it's a trend and their gun culture doesn't help. It's just that mentioning GTA in topics like this is important because according to their logic of how art influences people it should also be heavily censored one way or another. Music too. |
EsquirtitApr 5, 2020 5:25 PM
| poop |
epidemia78 said: iorn said: Or it's because they're normally shit characters that have about three personality traits and only exist to be rescued or pine after a male character. Almost everything on your meager completed list is battle shounen so how would you even know if harem and moe characters lack depth? I'm going to give you two options. Give me a show. Or take your strawman argument and waddle back to whatever conversations you were in. Before I decide to take off my belt and beat you with it. https://youtu.be/dDp4loYY0wA?t=51 |
| I've surpassed your limit! |
iorn said: epidemia78 said: Almost everything on your meager completed list is battle shounen so how would you even know if harem and moe characters lack depth? I'm going to give you two options. Give me a show. Or take your strawman argument and waddle back to whatever conversations you were in. Before I decide to take off my belt and beat you with it. https://youtu.be/dDp4loYY0wA?t=51 https://myanimelist.net/anime/36296/Hinamatsuri Watch the entire thing otherwise you're in no position to judge these characters. |
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epidemia78 said: You picked a fairly feminist-friendly show there mate. I, too, think he should watch it! I'll probably watch it someday too when I feel like it.iorn said: I'm going to give you two options. Give me a show. Or take your strawman argument and waddle back to whatever conversations you were in. Before I decide to take off my belt and beat you with it. https://youtu.be/dDp4loYY0wA?t=51 https://myanimelist.net/anime/36296/Hinamatsuri Watch the entire thing otherwise you're in no position to judge these characters. |
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Tylaen said: I'm going to watch this just so I can trash it. I hope you prove me wrong.epidemia78 said: You picked a fairly feminist-friendly show there mate. I, too, think he should watch it! I'll probably watch it someday too when I feel like it.https://myanimelist.net/anime/36296/Hinamatsuri Watch the entire thing otherwise you're in no position to judge these characters. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: I know of it by proxy of others enjoying it, so I can't vouch for anything but it not being degenerate.Tylaen said: I'm going to watch this just so I can trash it. I hope you prove me wrong.You picked a fairly feminist-friendly show there mate. I, too, think he should watch it! I'll probably watch it someday too when I feel like it. What you qualify as degenerate is your business though. You've some choice words for most things, as far as I can see. No hard feelings if you trash it though. |
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Tylaen said: epidemia78 said: You picked a fairly feminist-friendly show there mate. I, too, think he should watch it! I'll probably watch it someday too when I feel like it.https://myanimelist.net/anime/36296/Hinamatsuri Watch the entire thing otherwise you're in no position to judge these characters. It's the show with the highest concentration of pure, unadulterated moe on my completed list. For the sake of fairness I'll also submit a character from a harem anime for him to analyze and define in three words or less: https://myanimelist.net/character/22306/Chihiro_Kosaka |
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katsucats said: I'm going to watch this just so I can trash it. Isn't that the only reason you ever watch anything? |
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| Something that I am surprised hasn't been mentioned in this thread (that I can see), is that there was some drama recently over the manga Uzaki-chan wa Asobitai! You can read more about the incident here: https://reclaimthenet.org/uzaki-chan-returns-to-promote-japanese-red-cross-blood-drive-despite-offended-twitter-users/ And this guy does a pretty good summary of it in a youtube video: https://youtu.be/U7phNMk7dy4 Basically, the Japanese red cross used Uzaki Chan in one of their poster ads requesting for blood donations. The japanese twitter lost their minds, because Uzaki Chan has... large assets This was a big story in Japan I believe. |
Poker1stApr 5, 2020 6:39 PM
| No media in the realm of fiction is "problematic". The ones with the "problems" are the stupid "this-needs-to-conform-to-my-expectations-and-morals" audience members of purity culture watching said media. Seriously, every time someone describes a show or book as "problematic", I have the urge to bash their head into a hard object. |
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TolkienFan365 said: Well this thread started out okay and then of course most of it has been consumed by the same kind of garbage any thread like this usually ends up in. It always ends up like this, when you have both sides that are so hard grounded in their beliefs reasonable discussion won't last for long. It's especially bad this time because the OP made good points that people were agreeing with, not all of them but at least a decent discussion was able to start before things went downhill. And considering how people feel about topics this in relation to what's going on in society today, it's only expected that things would turn out this way. |
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terminador_2397 said: TolkienFan365 said: Well this thread started out okay and then of course most of it has been consumed by the same kind of garbage any thread like this usually ends up in. It always ends up like this, when you have both sides that are so hard grounded in their beliefs reasonable discussion won't last for long. It's especially bad this time because the OP made good points that people were agreeing with, not all of them but at least a decent discussion was able to start before things went downhill. And considering how people feel about topics this in relation to what's going on in society today, it's only expected that things would turn out this way. Well I don't agree with a lot of what the OP said but they have been respectful as has many posters who I have disagreed with on this topic. It can be an interesting one in terms of an artist's duty, impact of media etc etc. The problem is this is basically a tinderbox ranging from fear of having content they like being slowly phased out or down to personal attacks on identity (which is basically an automatic lose in my opinion). So really any conversation around this usually sucks. I do lean way more to the side that would argue against the idea of problematic media but even those who argue against it often fall into just blind tribalism and paranoia and also attract less than appetizing people. I am just kinda sick of the discussion at this point. |
epidemia78 said: iorn said: I'm going to give you two options. Give me a show. Or take your strawman argument and waddle back to whatever conversations you were in. Before I decide to take off my belt and beat you with it. https://youtu.be/dDp4loYY0wA?t=51 https://myanimelist.net/anime/36296/Hinamatsuri Watch the entire thing otherwise you're in no position to judge these characters. It might just be the sleep deprivation but I'm pretty sure I'm starting to dislike this already. Will sleep, will return. If my feelings are legit and not a product of exhaustion. The aforementioned belt beating will occur |
| I've surpassed your limit! |
Peaceful_Critic said: Setsuei said: I mean if it helps you understand, I messaged someone on Fanpop who said SAO changed them into being full pro romantic incest as they said they realized it was no different from homosexuality. I can show you a screenshot of this through MAL messages(without the name of course) if you don't believe me. Yeah...I understand what you're saying. Its just in my mind it's completely pointless to get offended by something that isn't based in reality, so I have a hard time wrapping my brain around it. I have the exact same reaction when I here about people being offended by certain jokes because to me they're just that...a joke There's a reason why films and movies tend to be a product of their time(even ones that aren't based on reality). Because the person who made it had a certain belief or thought they wanted to portray in the film and other people pick up on it. Films may not play to logic, but it does so via emotion which is strong enough sometimes to make or strengthen beliefs as people don't always do or believe things for logical reasons. There's a reason why even cartoon propaganda is so effective despite never actually making any logical arguments and the same thing is true here. It doesn't need to be obvious for people to consider any possible messaging. For example, Bambi struck conversations about hunting when it came out and still does today(https://www.history.vt.edu/Barrow/Hist2104/readings/bambi.html). The impact media has on people is shown to have several studies that support the idea that it shapes how people view things("Nonetheless, a large body of research has found some support for a general relationship between greater exposure to media presentations of crime and both a public fear of crime and an overestimation of the prevalence of crime") This is further supported by sci-fi items being based on media and turned into IRL products that are usable in the same way. Honestly, a lot of what you said already made sense to me. I can understand the fact that works of fiction can be heavily influenced by the creators personal views and bias. I can even understand how works of fiction can bring certain issues to light and start conversations or spark new ideas. What I don't understand is the people who act like portraying certain acts or themes in a fictional setting is somehow just as bad, or in some peoples opinions worse, than that same act being committed in real life. Personally I don't believe showing acts of slavery in fiction is somehow just as bad as someone being sold into slavery in real life. You can't compare the life of a fictional character to the life of an actual person. If anything, I think it's more "problematic" To avoid addressing these types of things in media. To me doing so would be the same as pretending those problems don't exist in the first place. People often complain about the lack of realism in works of fiction. Well guess what, part of being more "realistic" is is showing the shittier parts of humanity. Yes, I completely agree that some shows and movies don't exactly handle sensitive topics very well. But I also think that people should take the setting into consideration in certain case. A story set in world with monsters and demons and shit roaming around isn't exactly going to follow the same logic as a story set in more realistic setting. Those monsters are going to follow what ever the plot and setting dictate they're suppose to do, which yes, is sometimes going to involve some fucked up stuff that some people will have a hard time watching. So yeah, That's pretty much where I stand on this. Sorry if it's kind of long-winded, but I wanted to make my stance as clear as I possibly could, which I hope I was able to do. It also doesn't help that wasn't able to respond to this as quickly as I would have liked to. |
Setsuei said: What I don't understand is the people who act like portraying certain acts or themes in a fictional setting is somehow just as bad, or in some peoples opinions worse, than that same act being committed in real life. Personally I don't believe showing acts of slavery in fiction is somehow just as bad as someone being sold into slavery in real life. You can't compare the life of a fictional character to the life of an actual person. If anything, I think it's more "problematic" To avoid addressing these types of things in media. To me doing so would be the same as pretending those problems don't exist in the first place. I mean, I think you answered your question there. If you already believe that works of fiction can can spark new conversations and start conversations, it holds the same merit as real life examples in some cases. I think a point of any art is to visualize an idea, some bad, some good, some objectively terrible. Setsuei said: People often complain about the lack of realism in works of fiction. Well guess what, part of being more "realistic" is is showing the shittier parts of humanity. Yes, I completely agree that some shows and movies don't exactly handle sensitive topics very well. But I also think that people should take the setting into consideration in certain case. A story set in world with monsters and demons and shit roaming around isn't exactly going to follow the same logic as a story set in more realistic setting. Those monsters are going to follow what ever the plot and setting dictate they're suppose to do, which yes, is sometimes going to involve some fucked up stuff that some people will have a hard time watching. No one complains about the lack of realism in fiction. Maybe if it was a slice of life? You're right, anime slavery isn't as bad as actual slavery, I can't argue with that. However, I think that they aren't even showcasing the "shittier parts of humanity" these studios are literally making it. Studios are conditioning these weebs to oversexualize loli's |
| youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 73 6f 6d 65 74 68 69 6e 67 73 20 6f 64 64 20 61 62 6f 75 74 20 6d 79 20 70 72 6f 66 69 6c 65 0d 0a |
ohml said: Setsuei said: What I don't understand is the people who act like portraying certain acts or themes in a fictional setting is somehow just as bad, or in some peoples opinions worse, than that same act being committed in real life. Personally I don't believe showing acts of slavery in fiction is somehow just as bad as someone being sold into slavery in real life. You can't compare the life of a fictional character to the life of an actual person. If anything, I think it's more "problematic" To avoid addressing these types of things in media. To me doing so would be the same as pretending those problems don't exist in the first place. I mean, I think you answered your question there. If you already believe that works of fiction can can spark new conversations and start conversations, it holds the same merit as real life examples in some cases. I think a point of any art is to visualize an idea, some bad, some good, some objectively terrible. Setsuei said: People often complain about the lack of realism in works of fiction. Well guess what, part of being more "realistic" is is showing the shittier parts of humanity. Yes, I completely agree that some shows and movies don't exactly handle sensitive topics very well. But I also think that people should take the setting into consideration in certain case. A story set in world with monsters and demons and shit roaming around isn't exactly going to follow the same logic as a story set in more realistic setting. Those monsters are going to follow what ever the plot and setting dictate they're suppose to do, which yes, is sometimes going to involve some fucked up stuff that some people will have a hard time watching. No one complains about the lack of realism in fiction. Maybe if it was a slice of life? You're right, anime slavery isn't as bad as actual slavery, I can't argue with that. However, I think that they aren't even showcasing the "shittier parts of humanity" these studios are literally making it. Studios are conditioning these weebs to oversexualize loli's Really...I've seen several cases of people complaining about the lack of realism in other genres such as sports and romance and even some of the ones less based in reality, so I have to disagree with you on that. I also have to disagree with your other point. I'm not arguing against the fact that anime and manga sexualize female characters, because clearly they do. However, they aren't fully responsible for how people react to this content either. At a certain point personal responsibility comes into account. No one forced them to watch that stuff in the first place, they chose to. The studios take some responsibility for keeping them hooked though. |
| Thread locked. Thread has derailed and turned into a discussion about controversial topics, which will most likely continue due to the nature of the thread topic. + 5. Please refrain from posting thread topics which extend beyond the discussion of anime/manga as an entertainment medium to highly-debated social and/or moral issues. This includes but is not limited to: pedophilia, gender/racial equality, sexual orientation, etc. |
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