Satyr_icon said: EfiChan said: I think exactly the other way around. People call movies from 2010 old and don't tend to watch them unless they're on TV. Of course, it doesn't no one ever enjoys new things, but yeah, As time pass by, things are forgotten. That's not really true. Just take the IMDB top 250 for instance: https://www.imdb.com/chart/top There are 158 old movies as opposed to 92 21st century movies (give it or take). Among the top10 there's even a 50s movie, with decent watch count (almost 600k). That doesn't mean that people watch more old movies, but that yeah, people still watch them a lot alright, and they certainly don't stop at 2010 in movies. Not to say every single "best movies" list is always swarmed with old movies, and even favourite movies polls (like this one) as well. Of course, that doesn't mean things don't go out of fashion. New movies are still more watched than old movies (as it is natural: when movies went from mute to sound film, and from black&white to coloured, of course, the latter became the norm), but that doesn't mean the old gets completely forgotten. And not only as reminiscence: the new is ALWAYS and CONSTANTLY tipping their hats to the old. Just look at movies like The Artist, shot as a black&white and silent film, or Drive, with its 80s neo-noir aesthetics (both from 2011). Damn, Stranger Things is a phenomenon among everyone and their grandma and it's totally ripped off from 80s TV shows and movies. I'd say it's the complete opposite. The old is more relevant than ever nowadays. And even if the general public does not consume proper old stuff (as it always is, since the general public is less knowledgeable, and prone to only follow trends), there's really no reason to believe old stuff will be utterly forgotten. Human beings are naturally hoarders when it comes to the past. That's the only reason people keep old protographs. I think taking movies from the last decade vs previous 50-60 years... that's not really fair. As in 50 years, the do more than 10. And again, of course, there are classics. Even in books, peopel still read The Three Musketeers and The Count of Monta Cristo and Jane Eyre and Sherlock Holmes. But other old stories... aren't really even sold anymore. Same with movies. many of them are hard to find, even if you want. OP didn't say all hyped animes won't be remembered but in general. So yeah, not all of them will survive time. Look, some didn't even survive after their end. |
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Satyr_icon said: @Gorochu I didn't use the IMDb list to prove anything, only to demonstrate that people still watch a lot of old movies. My point was made through the rest of my post, which you ignored. IMDb's anime list still has quite a few old anime, as does MAL, especially when you look at user count with the latter. Both Cowboy Bebop and Evangelion were rated by 500k people. There's no reason to believe they (and everyone else who doesn't have a MAL account and like those anime) will just forget it exists because some time passes. It's silly to think like that, especially when 80s anime aesthetics are all the rage again with hipsters and electronic music subcultures. Now and then I see a new video with some lo-fi hip hop and scenes from old anime in the background. How can anyone say those have been forgotten when those videos always have a fuckton of views? I mean, why do you believe old anime will be forgotten in the first place, I gotta ask? I don't understand, since I haven't seen one sensible reason until now, especially when we had Devilman Crybaby last year and Dororo this year. The industry is CONSTANTLY borrowing from the past and bringing old franchises to new life. What makes you believe they are being forgotten? They will be forgotten because there will be more and more new anime coming out and new generations won't be interested in old anime. Only a few will be interested in old anime. My point is just because there are lots of people watching old classic movies that does not mean the same can be applied to anime medium. Here's a more reliable ranking not base on rating but rather how many people watching it. Forget about the IMDB top anime link I prove earlier, that one is rating, not viewership. https://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=bypopularity As you can see, most of them are modern. Doesn't matter how much old anime they borrow from because they too will be forgotten once the show is over. FYI, Devilman Crybaby popularity is at 317.Sure, there are exception for old classic anime like Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion, Code Geass, TTGL, FMA:Brotherhood which will be remembered but those are in minority as EfiChan pointed out. You can't use Cowboy Bebop and Evangelion to generalize the entire old anime. |
Papa_ScorchJan 26, 2019 3:03 AM
| Timeless settings will never be obsolete. |
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| @Gorochu dude, did you actually read my post? Because all you did was repeat everything I say. Of course new stuff will be more popular than the old. That's obvious, and I said exactly that in my post, but that doesn't mean they will be completely forgotten. As you said, a few people will always look for old stuff: that alone means they won't be forgotten. It doesn't matter that Devilman wasn't as popular: it made a lot of people look out for the old source. Just as Megalobox made a lot of people look out for Ashita no Joe, just last year as well, and Jojo made people look out for the old manga, and Dororo will probably do the same. As long as there are those people, it's asinine to say they will be forgotten. And saying that "they will be forgotten once the show is over" is not really an argument, as you don't really have anything to prove it, and it doesn't seem to be true. People are still talking about Devilman to this day, even the old ones. Go Nagai is still revered among the industry and his influence doesn't seem to be going out anytime soon. As I said, 80s aesthetics are all the rave now again. As of yet, you haven't given any palpable reason as to why these anime will be forgotten, other than "well they are not as popular so they will be forgotten". Heavily marketed AAA productions will always be more popular than the old stuff which relies mostly on mouth to mouth advertising and nostalgia, sometimes a studio wanting to profit with it, but that doesn't really make for a good argument that they will simply disappear, especially now with the internet and the ease to download stuff at a click of the mouse. EfiChan said: I think taking movies from the last decade vs previous 50-60 years... that's not really fair. As in 50 years, the do more than 10 The point is not the number of old movies vs new ones. This is not a competition. You said old movies are being forgotten and people don't even watch movies older than 2010 unless on TV. I just used the number on the list to demonstrate that this is simply not true, especially nowadays with the internet that old movies are all the rave again, and people are rediscovering stuff like Tarkovsky and Bergman. EfiChan said: But other old stories... aren't really even sold anymore. Again, you are wrong at that. A lot of stories that aren't considered classics or aren't even that well known among people are still being sold. I myself read a lot of those. And even then, there's the internet to look for the stuff you don't find printed. Of course some really obscure novel written in the 50s that only had 10 copies printed will be forgotten, but that work just as well for a modern novel which doesn't meet sales, nor the critics palate. That isn't a matter of being old or new, but being good. Just think of the gaming scene, and the impact emulation had on it, and you'll understand that saying the old will be forgotten just because it is old does not make any sense. EfiChan said: So yeah, not all of them will survive time. Look, some didn't even survive after their end. Of course not. Not everything will survive time, just as it has always been since the beginning of history. I never said everything will survive time, but that the classics and influential anime will. There's no reason to think stuff like Akira or Ghost in the Shell will simply disappear because they are old. But what's your point, then? |
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| if anime graphics advance too much compared to current anime then probably yes however i highly doubt it, cuz we have pretty good art nowadays |
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Satyr_icon said: @Gorochu dude, did you actually read my post? Because all you did was repeat everything I say. Of course new stuff will be more popular than the old. That's obvious, and I said exactly that in my post, but that doesn't mean they will be completely forgotten. As you said, a few people will always look for old stuff: that alone means they won't be forgotten. It doesn't matter that Devilman wasn't as popular: it made a lot of people look out for the old source. Just as Megalobox made a lot of people look out for Ashita no Joe, just last year as well, and Jojo made people look out for the old manga, and Dororo will probably do the same. As long as there are those people, it's asinine to say they will be forgotten. And saying that "they will be forgotten once the show is over" is not really an argument, as you don't really have anything to prove it, and it doesn't seem to be true. People are still talking about Devilman to this day, even the old ones. Go Nagai is still revered among the industry and his influence doesn't seem to be going out anytime soon. As I said, 80s aesthetics are all the rave now again. As of yet, you haven't given any palpable reason as to why these anime will be forgotten, other than "well they are not as popular so they will be forgotten". Heavily marketed AAA productions will always be more popular than the old stuff which relies mostly on mouth to mouth advertising and nostalgia, sometimes a studio wanting to profit with it, but that doesn't really make for a good argument that they will simply disappear, especially now with the internet and the ease to download stuff at a click of the mouse. EfiChan said: I think taking movies from the last decade vs previous 50-60 years... that's not really fair. As in 50 years, the do more than 10 The point is not the number of old movies vs new ones. This is not a competition. You said old movies are being forgotten and people don't even watch movies older than 2010 unless on TV. I just used the number on the list to demonstrate that this is simply not true, especially nowadays with the internet that old movies are all the rave again, and people are rediscovering stuff like Tarkovsky and Bergman. EfiChan said: But other old stories... aren't really even sold anymore. Again, you are wrong at that. A lot of stories that aren't considered classics or aren't even that well known among people are still being sold. I myself read a lot of those. And even then, there's the internet to look for the stuff you don't find printed. Of course some really obscure novel written in the 50s that only had 10 copies printed will be forgotten, but that work just as well for a modern novel which doesn't meet sales, nor the critics palate. That isn't a matter of being old or new, but being good. Just think of the gaming scene, and the impact emulation had on it, and you'll understand that saying the old will be forgotten just because it is old does not make any sense. EfiChan said: So yeah, not all of them will survive time. Look, some didn't even survive after their end. Of course not. Not everything will survive time, just as it has always been since the beginning of history. I never said everything will survive time, but that the classics and influential anime will. There's no reason to think stuff like Akira or Ghost in the Shell will simply disappear because they are old. But what's your point, then? Cause we don't talk about classical. As other media doesn't survive time, most things from 2010's won't survive it. That's all. |
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Still-a-Casual said: You forget that there's anime that are the faces for certain genres, newcomers are immediately recommended these anime when asking for something to watch. For example, do you think Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood will be forgotten in 2030? I highly doubt it. The same can be said for Death Note, Steins;Gate, Code Geass, even freakin Toradora. They're the faces of their genres (thriller, Sci-fi, Mecha, Romcom) and they still retain their popularity despite being released years ago, gaining new fans each year. And let's not even talk about the classics like Cowboy Bebop and NGE. Those anime will always be known due to their impact on anime. And those anime will eventually be replace with new faces, lets not forget that there will be more persons interested in the current anime than the old one, that is certain. The reason for that is because the current anime will be the ones that everyone will be talking about. Apollo18 said: Classics are classics- like with film, music, or any other medium, people will watch old stuff if the quality is good enough. Anime as a medium (like all mediums) took a while to reach proper maturity; Average people still watch Hollywood films from the 30s/40s (like someone else mentioned- Wizard of Oz, Casablanca, Citizen Kane, etc), but rarely films from the 1910s and 20s, becasue Hollywood film-making only really reached maturity around the mid-30s. In the same way, anime only reached real maturity in the 80s (some people may put it earlier or later, maybe even back to the 60s, but whatever. Its my comment, my opinion). So, like you'll still get hardcore film buffs watching silent films from 1915, but most people will only watch movies from the 30s or later, there'll always be hardcore anime fans watching b&w Toei stuff from the 60s, but there will always be many more average anime fans watching Akira, or Grave of the Fireflies, or NGE or GitS (as well as classics from later eras.). (That said, I wouldn't really call myself a "hardcore anime fan"- I'm a pretty casual, dub-watching pleb, but I've recently been watching 'Sabu and Ichi' from 1968, and it's fucking amazing. Not really as easy to watch as say, Totoro, or even Dirty Pair or Ninja scroll, but still amazing. https://myanimelist.net/anime/5997/Sabu_to_Ichi_Torimono_Hikae Like I said- people will always watch quality stuff, however old it is) Again, you are talking about the minority, the majority will only watch the current stuff, you know the ones that are being talk about all over social media, because people follow trend. That is the reality, and that is what the majority is going for. HisokaxMeruem said: thats stupid to assume, most anime will get a remake like most of them are getting now, fruits basket, dororo, boogiepop and many more to come. Nostalgia sells. Duh, remakes to please the new anime fans, because they are not interested to watching old out dated anime, just like video game remake. My point is without the remakes most of them are dead, and most anime wont even get remakes, only a select few will get that privilege. And remakes also don't always do well. So yeah, my point stands. |
keragammingJan 26, 2019 11:59 AM
| As long as I watched them it's okay :D |
 "I want to show that woman the true Yoshikage Kira. I want her to hear how I feel deep inside. That I want to take your slender neck into these hands and strangle you to death." |
| We remember anime from the 90s. Over the 12 year span from 1988 to 2000, I can list a few still highly acclaimed anime: Akira, Neon Genesis Evengelion, Legends of the Galactic Heroes, Ghost in the Shell, Great Teacher Onizuka, Cowboy Beblop. Lets skip 12 years from now to the year 2031, span from 31 to 19 years ago will now become 2000 to 2012. What will we remember? I'll start by listing six: Death Note, Code Geass, Naruto, One Piece, Monster, Mushishi, Steins Gate. Will we remember more? How is the availability of the internet gonna impact this? It all makes for an interesting discussion. |
| Check out my custom anime list theme here: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1768732 |
Apollo18 said: keragamming said: Again, you are talking about the minority, the majority will only watch the current stuff, you know the ones that are being talk about all over social media, because people follow trend. That is the reality, and that is what the majority is going for. Your perception of what "the majority" is watching varies depending who you're hanging out with. You think "everyone" only watches current-season stuff, but there have been dozens of people in this thread saying "well, no. I watch decades-old stuff all the time". You're going off your gut feeling, confusing it with fact. The MAL "most popular" list may not be perfect, but it's the closest thing we have to an objective list of what English-speaking anime fans watch, and number one anime on that list (and the most watched anime on MAL iirc) is 10 years old (FMA-B), and less than half of the top 20 are <5yo, with shows going back to the 80s, just in the top 10. (And if you're going to say "Pffff, the MAL list is bullshit!!" that's fine- IF you can come up with some other, better, more objective source of what anime fans watch. But just saying "Pfft, the MAL list is bullshit.... so I'm just gonna rely 100% on my totally made-up gut feeling instead..." doesn't really cut it) Most watch anime on MAL is actually Death Note. FMA-B is at 4. Here is the list of most view anime on MAL. https://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=bypopularity Only 2 pre 2000 anime in the top 50 which are Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop. |
Papa_ScorchJan 26, 2019 10:40 PM
Apollo18 said: keragamming said: Again, you are talking about the minority, the majority will only watch the current stuff, you know the ones that are being talk about all over social media, because people follow trend. That is the reality, and that is what the majority is going for. Your perception of what "the majority" is watching varies depending who you're hanging out with. You think "everyone" only watches current-season stuff, but there have been dozens of people in this thread saying "well, no. I watch decades-old stuff all the time". You're going off your gut feeling, confusing it with fact. The MAL "most popular" list may not be perfect, but it's the closest thing we have to an objective list of what English-speaking anime fans watch, and number one anime on that list (and the most watched anime on MAL iirc) is 10 years old (FMA-B), and less than half of the top 20 are <5yo, with shows going back to the 80s, just in the top 10. (And if you're going to say "Pffff, the MAL list is bullshit!!" that's fine- IF you can come up with some other, better, more objective source of what anime fans watch. But just saying "Pfft, the MAL list is bullshit.... so I'm just gonna rely 100% on my totally made-up gut feeling instead..." doesn't really cut it) Correction fmab is the 4th most popular anime on mal, dude I never said all the old anime will be forgotten, as you see in my title I said most, fmab is not only of the most popular anime on mal but it is also the top anime on mal, so it will definitely get a lot of attention just because of that, and it is one of the most recommended anime to new anime watcher, so it is really not surprising. Also those persons that are watching old anime and not following the current ones are the minority, a you see 100 users saying they are focusing on watching old anime and you think it is the majority? You think more persons currently are watching evangellion, cowboy bebop, sailor moon etc than the new anime that are being watch by millions of fans each season? How does that make any sense to you? We have to go way down to #39 in popularity to find a anime in the 90s which is one piece that started in 1999, but again, what you brought up does not refute my statement. Also this is not gut feelings it is common sense, tell me this do you think most people are playing final fantasy 7 ps1 game more than the current games or any games 10 years ago? Absolutely not! Not to mention it is easily accessible on any devices, but most person except the old gamers or new gamers that are interested in going back in time to play some classic game, all of which are the minority, most persons are not like that. This is literally the case for every entertainment medium. We are in the age of the internet, streaming where we have access to millions of entertainment medium and it is impossible to read,watch and listen to them all, not to mention new tv shows, anime etc comes out at a much faster pace than in the past, so for most people there is no time to relive the past or to even care about it enough to go back check it out because what is happening now is more important to them. It is probably why a lot of people don't like history classes for example. I still think you missed the overall point here, most anime will be forgotten like for example 100 persons sending resume to a company and you know which one will make it out of all the generic ones that has been sent to that company? The ones that stands out from the rest or the few special ones that stands out from the rest. |
keragammingJan 26, 2019 11:33 PM
Apollo18 said: keragamming said: Correction fmab is the 4th most popular anime on mal, dude I never said all the old anime will be forgotten, as you see in my title I said most, fmab is not only of the most popular anime on mal but it is also the top anime on mal, so it will definitely get a lot of attention just because of that, and it is one of the most recommended anime to new anime watcher, so it is really not surprising. Also those persons that are watching old anime and not following the current ones are the minority, a you see 100 users saying they are focusing on watching old anime and you think it is the majority? You think more persons currently are watching evangellion, cowboy bebop, sailor moon etc than the new anime that are being watch by millions of fans each season? How does that make any sense to you? We have to go way down to #39 in popularity to find a anime in the 90s which is one piece that started in 1999, but again, what you brought up does not refute my statement. Also this is not gut feelings it is common sense, tell me this do you think most people are playing final fantasy 7 ps1 game more than the current games or any games 10 years ago? Absolutely not! Not to mention it is easily accessible on any devices, but most person except the old gamers or new gamers that are interested in going back in time to play some classic game, all of which are the minority, most persons are not like that. This is literally the case for every entertainment medium. We are in the age of the internet, streaming where we have access to millions of entertainment medium and it is impossible to read,watch and listen to them all, not to mention new tv shows, anime etc comes out at a much faster pace than in the past, so for most people there is no time to relive the past or to even care about it enough to go back check it out because what is happening now is more important to them. It is probably why a lot of people don't like history classes for example. I still think you missed the overall point here, most anime will be forgotten like for example 100 persons sending resume to a company and you know which one will make it out of all the generic ones that has been sent to that company? The ones that stands out from the rest or the few special ones that stands out from the rest. "I still think you missed the overall point here, most anime will be forgotten like for example 100 persons sending resume to a company and you know which one will make it out of all the generic ones that has been sent to that company? The ones that stands out from the rest or the few special ones that stands out from the rest." Maybe you're right and I am missing the point- because I'm not sure what you're trying to say. What you're saying is the case for every medium, every era, ever. Film, music, games, anime, whatever. New releases get lots of hype and views, (but 99% it's disposable, and that once-hyped, once-new release will be basically forgotten in 18 months). But then you have the "classics", which won't have as many people watching them RIGHT NOW as the amount of people watching the latest seasonal Isekai crap, but many more people have seen the classic *at some point*, and we know people will go back to the classic in 5 or ten years time, when then latest seasonal crap is long forgotten. I don't understand what else you'd expect? You think it's a revelation that there's more people watching 2019 anime in 2019, than there are people watching 1993 anime in 2019? But all that doesn't mean the old stuff is "forgotten"- if a 1993 anime is considered a "classic" now, it'll continue to be considered "a classic", and people will keep going back to it, just like they do now. People don't just watch *one* anime. And they don't just ONLY watch latest, seasonal anime or ONLY watch 20yo classics. Like people have always done, they'll *mostly* watch more current stuff, but with most people, every now and then they'll go back to something from 10, 20, 30 years ago. Same as people have always done. Yes, they may *mostly* watch recent releases, but that doesn't mean the old stuff is "forgotten". And that isn't some new trend- it's the same way people have always been. ( Or did you think that in 1993 everyone was watching anime from the 1967 and ignoring 1993 releases?) That is the point, it is not a new trend. The 2010s will eventually be the new 1990s classic, you have to keep in mine the outdated animation etc that will not be pleasing to the eyes of new fans. Now remake is a solution to get new anime fans to watch the old outdated looking one's. |
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