I'm holding out for the dub

NyaMV said:
Do you really think dub make it better simply by being in English? I think you lose a lot of information with the translation itself, dub is worse because you lose the original tone and emotions of the anime. This applies to all languages different from japanese I think. But that's just my opinion.

(Sorry for my bad English, I'm not a native speaker)

-SP- said:
Facial expressions in Anime are created based on the Japanese script not the "English dub" version. Dubs are usually poorly translated so they can make the voice fit with the characters facial expression. I no longer watch dubs because of this and that is why subs are superior.

Tenderizer17 said:
I should have known people like you would reply to a thread like this.

Anyway, they may change the translations to match the facial expressions of characters. However, you forget that anime sucks, so the facial expressions of characters rarely even change anyway. Also, the facial expressions are designed for people who comprehend Japanese, not people who read subtitles. What you read in the subtitles might not match what the facial expressions express because of the different word order in Japanese.

I think I need to edit my thread to avoid getting replies like yours.

-SP- said:

After a certain point, you subconsciously start to match the subs with facial expressions. This is how one can focus on the anime and not just the subs. At this point I can't even tell they are speaking Japanese, because I automatically translate everything in my head. You should have expected this kind of reply from the moment you wrote this topic, by no means am I bashing on you. I was a dub only viewer until last year and lived by the slogan "If it's not dubbed, then there is no point in watching it" because of this I dropped many Anime. I was simply letting you know why I don't hold out for dubs anymore and what my thoughts were on the matter. I couldn't care any less about your views, since enjoy-ability is different for everyone, and doesn't affect me.

Tenderizer17 said:
@NyaMV I am a native english speaker, and having the dialogue spoken in a language I speak natively is preferable to having it spoken in a language I do not speak at all. That's why it's good when a show's in english.

There are two issues with your argument about loss of quality.
1. Actually, the dub of Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun has a lot more of the original quality than the sub. The comedy absolutely doesn't work with subtitles, and the comedy is a VERY large portion of the show's appeal.
2. Subtitles take a way a lot more of the authors intentions than you may think. The timing is changed by having dialogue on the screen all at once, the order of words is normally different, the voice acting is harder to appreciate, the culture is foreign and are attention is drawn away from the animation. Some of these aren't fixed by dubbing, but the point is that you're never going to get 100% of the creators intentions either way. The experience a japanese person has with anime is going to be different than the experience of someone from outside Japan. Even if you learn the language you'd still not understand many cultural references, and you'd still probably internally translate it into english before you process it.

Anyway, that's enough of a general sub/dub debate because these arguments never get anywhere. I like both dubs and subs, and that's exactly how it should be.

ss4chris said:
you started this sub/dub debate. don't start something you know you cant finish

ss4chris said:
The Nozaki-kun dub was horrible. Sub was def better.

Tenderizer17 said:

and they're dubs aren't

Adome said:

For a English language aficionado your grammar sure is poor.

Tenderizer17 said:
I didn't start this exact debate. First I said that the Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun dub is immensely better than the sub (which is true) and responded to someone arguing against my views, and someone calling into question my character. I did not start this debate.

Also just to be clear, I ended the debates because it's like arguing with someone who thinks the earth is 6000 years old. There's no convincing them. I could keep up my argument if I needed, but it would be a waste of time because the argument would drag on forever without an end in site.
How much of the dub have you seen and which version did you see first?

UkRs said:
u can always watch the show when the dub comes out.. i myself am a dub guy.. if a show has been dubbed then dub.. if not then sub.. even if the dub version is horrible.. i really don't mind.. cuz VA are just one part of anime.. they don't make an anime worse or good.. a lot of other thing do...

Tenderizer17 said:
@ss4chris
All I said is that because the dub of Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun specifically was far better than the sub, and because this seems remarkably similar to that anime, I thought it best to hold out for a dub of this.

Granted, this would be an attack against sub-only viewers by default. However saying I started this argument is like saying a black person started an argument with a racist just by existing.

Tenderizer17 said:
I actually think, that the dub is essentially an entirely different show. Yeah, maybe only the voice acting (and script and timing) changes, but the voice acting is very important to building characters, and japanese voice acting doesn't build character as well as english voice acting. The timing changes can affect comedy (which is another area where dubs usually win) and the script affects our perception of the depth (which is an area where subs typically win). So essentially, dubbing changes the quality of the characters, depth of the writing and effectiveness of the comedy which are all pretty big changes. Neither sub nor dub wins on all fronts though. The only exceptions would probably be really arthousy anime like Serial Experiments Lain and Neon Genesis Evangelion where the accuracy of the script is more important than the quality of the experience.

ss4chris said:
The Dub of Nokzai Kun was horrible compared to the original. Like soo bad. Just compared the ratings and sales.

ss4chris said:
I'll actually agree with you that dub feels like its taking on a diff show than the original. which again is a mark against your debate that dub or better than sub

EVA for example. People complain that SHinji is a whiny character and i agreed when i was younger and i saw but when i got older and i saw the original I saw a different side to SHinji. Someone whos afraid and wants to be accepted by his father and others. as opposed to the dub portraying him as a spoiled and whinny kid.

The dub doesn't know how to keep the original on track and goes off on its own tangent. Maybe you prefer stuff like that and thats why you prefer dub to sub

Tenderizer17 said:
I've seen both the dub and the sub of Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun from start to finish. For this reason I'm well equipped to compare the two. Normally, you end up disliking the version you watch second, however I ended up greatly preferring the dub despite watching it second. The voices fit the characters really well, especially the voice for Nozaki, and the comedy is much better executed in the dub.

Also, do you have any source for these ratings and sales that supposedly suggest the sub is better. Although data on the sales would be useless because if the sales are low that's no reason to believe it's because of the dub (because there are many other factors to consider). So it's only the ratings that'd mean anything. I said that Neon Genesis Evangelion is a worthwhile exception for anyone who follows the dub-only rule. I agree that the dub of evangelion isn't good and a complete deviation from the original.

However there are also times when these deviations make the show better. The Madoka Magica has some slight script deviations that make the script a lot better. The dub of Madoka Magica is a better show than the sub.

I also consider the subs a wholly different show to an international viewer than they are to a japanese viewer. Cultural references will go unnoticed, the subtitles will distract from the visuals, the timing of jokes is disrupted and characterisation is less effective.

Basically, I'm saying that neither the dub nor sub is innately more faithful to the original than the other. They both have their drawbacks and there isn't a one size fits all solution.

ss4chris said:
you seem to be a dub fanatic. lol.

the voice don't fit the chars at all unless you like bad voice acting/ don't know good from bad voice acting in the first place.

Tenderizer17 said:
This is by the same studio and director as Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun, and seems stylistically similar. The difference in enjoyability between the dub and sub of Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun cannot be overstated. I'd score the sub a 2/10 and dub a 10/10.

Even though the chances are slim that the situation would be the same, I am without question watching the dub.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Tenderizer17 said:
This is by the same studio and director as Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun, and seems stylistically similar. The difference in enjoyability between the dub and sub of Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun cannot be overstated. I'd score the sub a 2/10 and dub a 10/10.

Even though the chances are slim that the situation would be the same, I am without question watching the dub.

Anyone else feel the same way?
What are the odds we'll be getting a dub?
When could we expect a dub?

BTW: I know the dub is being made by Sentai Filmworks, and they're dubs aren't of a quality as reliable as Fumination or Aniplex. However, the quality of the dub isn't important, it's more important that the dub makes things better simply by being in english.

EDIT: Sub elitists, please don't reply and use this thread to propagate your views.

EDIT2: I watched the first episode, and it seems this show is strong enough to hold up even without a dub. It'll probably be better with a dub, but I can always watch the dub afterwards.

EDIT3: After watching three episodes, I have determined that it isn't strong enough to hold up without a dub. However, I'm also not so sure a dub will improve things as much as I expect. Either way, I'm coming back a year from now when a dub is released.

Tenderizer17 said:
This is by the same studio and director as Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun, and seems stylistically similar. The difference in enjoyability between the dub and sub of Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun cannot be overstated. I'd score the sub a 2/10 and dub a 10/10.

Even though the chances are slim that the situation would be the same, I am without question watching the dub.

Anyone else feel the same way?
What are the odds we'll be getting a dub?
When could we expect a dub?

BTW: I know the dub is being made by Sentai Filmworks, and they're dubs aren't of a quality as reliable as Fumination or Aniplex. However, the quality of the dub isn't important, it's more important that the dub makes things better simply by being in english.

EDIT: Sub elitists, please don't reply and use this thread to propagate your views.

EDIT2: I watched the first episode, and it seems this show is strong enough to hold up even without a dub. It'll probably be better with a dub, but I can always watch the dub afterwards.

EDIT3: After watching three episodes, I have determined that it isn't strong enough to hold up without a dub. However, I'm also not so sure a dub will improve things as much as I expect. Either way, I'm coming back a year from now when a dub is released.

Tenderizer17 said:
This is by the same studio and director as Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun, and seems stylistically similar. The difference in enjoyability between the dub and sub of Monthly Girls Nozaki-kun cannot be overstated. I'd score the sub a 2/10 and dub a 10/10.

Even though the chances are slim that the situation would be the same, I am without question watching the dub.

Anyone else feel the same way?
What are the odds we'll be getting a dub?
When could we expect a dub?

BTW: I know the dub is being made by Sentai Filmworks, and they're dubs aren't of a quality as reliable as Fumination or Aniplex. However, the quality of the dub isn't important, it's more important that the dub makes things better simply by being in english.

EDIT: Sub elitists, please don't reply and use this thread to propagate your views.

EDIT2: I watched the first episode, and it seems this show is strong enough to hold up even without a dub. It'll probably be better with a dub, but I can always watch the dub afterwards.

EDIT3: After watching three episodes, I have determined that it isn't strong enough to hold up without a dub. However, I'm also not so sure a dub will improve things as much as I expect. Either way, I'm coming back a year from now when a dub is released.

Interrrrrpetgyu said:
I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night.