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Aug 14, 2017 11:52 PM
#251
zealith7 said: I think you're the one who fails to accept the fact that he could be wrong at all. I won't get into it, but try thinking about it a little.Grey-Zone said: Dunno man. I tried my best to explain but you don't quite get what I'm talking about. Oh well. zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: Definitely, those kind of people don't really help all too much, SJWs can be frustrating, but essentially what I don't understand is why you are more frustrated by those harmless people who just want to stroke their own ego compared to people who are effectively oppressing minorities also just to stroke their ego, except in this case it's scarier and shadier, because it involves domination and coming out on top, a more violent and regressive kind of behavior.zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Newhopes said: How would she/he be a racist if they're white themselves? They're being overly critical and angsty, not racist. They're far from insane, on the other end of the spectrum, they're angry and don't know what to do about it because of their feelings of empathy. Stripesu said: zealith7 said: Stripesu said: The whole thing about villainifying white males is what got a lot of them this whiny and uncomfortable in the first place. Using generalizations to fight generalizations won't ever work out especially if the opposing group or so to speak in this scenario is extremely powerful.zealith7 said: A lot of you really are beyond help. As a human, as soon as you think about yourself as being a part of a certain group of people, you get the urge to constantly defend them and be biased, which limits your ability to think objectively and fairly and only look at small scale victories rather than universal. Likewise, with any of these pointless groups (race is obviously included as a group, although a social construct, it's very real) you also have to establish an enemy or outsider group, as the binding force that really brings your community together since it's fueled by a lack of understanding and fear of the unknown. Curiosity, fear, disdain till it evolves to hatred, and like with how you might have the urge to defend your own people, you have the urge to attack others. This whole "Nazi's are bad? B-but ANTIFA" thing is wrong because that's fundamentally the wrong approach to take to the conversation, if you did your own research or thought about it both groups are essentially different, not two sides of the same coin at all. The fact that there are these supremacists and that they have an extremely flawed way of thinking, and the fact that they feel safe coming out in rallies publicly is something to be WORRIED about, as a human being, because anyone that confident in their views and beliefs and lacking any kind of empathy can't be convinced otherwise easily, and is regressive for us as society in general. I know some of you who read this may subconsciously get defensive or offended to a small degree although I haven't flamed or ridiculed anyone or any group in particular, or taken "sides", and have just expressed some worried thoughts. In my opinion, as a human, it is your duty to fight that discomfort, think about what you don't know, learn more, contemplate what's right and wrong by yourself and never reach a final answer. The only way to elevate above these stupid trivial namecalling and hatred that's been going about since the beginning of humanity, in my opinion, is to make your empathy your ego and set love as your underlying objective about every action you take, not so much literally, but if you get what I mean you'll get it, otherwise you won't. And with that I'll end this cheesy but honest rant of mine and I hope you all have a great day. EDIT: I'm sure not a lot of people will get what I'm saying, but as long as you read what I have to say and have that in your memory, and if it made you question your beliefs about absolutely anything whether "you're left" or "you're right", I consider it a success. Youre free to disagree, as long as there's thought before disapproval. c u Fact of the matter is I don't think people who want to harm or genocide other peoples existence based on their color, orientation, background should be breathing air. The white privilege in this thread is rampant. Not that I am suprised. I understand in what perspective you're looking at. Trust me I do. But there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who thinks they can terrorize and oppress people into submission of these basic human right views. Lets just say. It's no shock that white males were the absolute majority at that march. And it says something. Know your privilege. Thanks for actually typing a coherent statement. The only way to the effectively change someone in this case would be to make them think for themselves, instead of pointing fingers at them. That rarely works out in a one to one mother to son relationship, so why would it here, among absolute strangers, hurting their ego when you have absolutely no power or control over them? I don't want to rant about everything else currently being talked about in this thread ideally, so I'm just going to cut it short and say that you have to see the people you feel so strongly against as people and find an empathetic way of telling them why they're wrong. As a person of white skin. When I hear statements towards "white people". I know they aren't talking about me. Basically what you're saying is that social media presented these "white males" with their shit and history, they got upset about things like "the history behind their confederate flags" or "things the main stream media doesn't cover such as cops beating and shooting black people". And they got uncomfortable. Sorry buddy but if you feel the need to whine and cry because YOU personally feel victimized over your privileged life style, I don't feel bad. These are also mostly grown ass men. Which makes it worse. And this is a example of the insane far left, nothing more than big bundles of hateful racists. Racism is subjugating a "group" of people based on superficial unimportant and false BS, basically. She isn't really doing that. Fuck I really didn't want to start going off on my tangents It's incredibly patronizing. It's implying that the targets of discrimination need a "shield" against those evil people that are discriminating against them. It's basically treating the discriminated groups as helpless children. It's no different from conceding the argument to racists that the discriminated groups are "below" the oppressors. Basically, it's an ideological battle between two groups who think themselves as superior compared to the discriminated group about who gets to decide the treatment of the discriminated group with the two choices being them either becoming second-class humans, or them entering in a relationship similar to drug seller and drug addict. In a way the "defenders of the oppressed" are worse than the actual oppressors. This pseudo-logic is a step above what the others have done. You've attempted thought. But the issue was, you attempted it with the intention of reaching the conclusion that the defenders of oppressors are worse than...the oppressors themselves(?) in the first place, which is why it ended up so flawed. Of course one group has an advantage in society over the other, if you're looking race wise, so it isn't a battle of equals. It is about population, political strength and influence, education and wealth, objective things, that YOU as a person should not feel bad about, but that still exist. Obviously standing up for those minorities can be done wrong, but as I said earlier in another message, it's approached with the intent of caring. You won't see a black or Mexican person feeling bad or angry about some feminists who stand up for them. That doesn't make sense. People who don't stand in the position of the oppressed can't say that the oppressed aren't being oppressed. The people defending the oppressed (just think about that statement, unless it's a flat out lie there's no WAY it's a negative thing) do so not for any personal gain. The oppressors, meanwhile, are and always will be the worst thing in a situation literally revolving around oppression. I tried my best to get my point through, and at this point any argument anyone has for me can be debunked from one of my earlier posts, honestly. Oh, but I don't mean that helping discriminated groups in itself is a bad thing. But the process HAS TO include concrete plans for helping the discriminated groups standing on their own feet from the very beginning, else it will be as it is now and such plans are pushed back endlessly with the excuse of "first wanting to completely eradicate racism", which history has shown is a bad idea, because it creates a long-term dependency, which is not, I asssume, the true, original intent of the people wanting to help those groups. In other words, if you already treat them like "children" of society, then at least take responsibility to the very end and make sure you help them grow into "adults" of society. I can honestly say that I admire people who actually do that, as it's one of the greatest contributions to society one can possibly make and it's definitly not an easy thing to do. However I have no sympathy at all for those who only seem to care about the immidiete symptoms of discrimination and stroke their own egos (i.e. "virtue signaling") for taking care of that without adressing the root cause, i.e. the people generally known as "Social Justice Warriors". Yes, you don't have to view one group being perfect and the other being horrible, it's okay to criticize both, and I feel like in this situation I couldn't care less what people like SJWs do because while they might be insufferable it initially stems from good intent and sensitivity, and I know that SJWs don't have a frightening amount of power, influence, or truly violent or regressive visions for the future. You're free to criticize them, but you should also acknowledge the other end of the spectrum, the reason this thread was started, and criticize that more than the pro left. Not because of which side you support but because of which is more destructive and harmful. The reason why I find SJWs most problematic out of all is because they essentially hijacked the "help the discriminated groups"-camp and any kind of reasonable disagreements with them is often met with accusations of some "-ism" because they aren't thinking about long-term solutions, but rather short-term gratification of caused by the delusion of "having done something good", all based on some ambiguous moral codex. So admiting that they are wrong would make them losing this "hero-like" feeling, i.e. it causes cognitive dissonance. If it was only up to that they could just be ignored, but the SJW's biggest "sin" is implanting the beliefs into the discriminated groups that they are their "heroes in shining armor" who they should rely on to protect them. It's only natural that the SJWs would say that, because the feeling of "being a hero" is what primarily motivates them to do all that in the first place. But as I just explained, it should be the opposite, i.e. the discriminated groups should become independent as individuals and not need to rely on others like that. That's what makes SJWs so troublesome to deal with, because to get them out of the way you have to deny their delusional "calling", which will most definitly lead to unreasonable reactions, because no one likes experiencing cogntivite dissonance. DateYutaka said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Newhopes said: How would she/he be a racist if they're white themselves? They're being overly critical and angsty, not racist. They're far from insane, on the other end of the spectrum, they're angry and don't know what to do about it because of their feelings of empathy. Stripesu said: zealith7 said: Stripesu said: The whole thing about villainifying white males is what got a lot of them this whiny and uncomfortable in the first place. Using generalizations to fight generalizations won't ever work out especially if the opposing group or so to speak in this scenario is extremely powerful.zealith7 said: A lot of you really are beyond help. As a human, as soon as you think about yourself as being a part of a certain group of people, you get the urge to constantly defend them and be biased, which limits your ability to think objectively and fairly and only look at small scale victories rather than universal. Likewise, with any of these pointless groups (race is obviously included as a group, although a social construct, it's very real) you also have to establish an enemy or outsider group, as the binding force that really brings your community together since it's fueled by a lack of understanding and fear of the unknown. Curiosity, fear, disdain till it evolves to hatred, and like with how you might have the urge to defend your own people, you have the urge to attack others. This whole "Nazi's are bad? B-but ANTIFA" thing is wrong because that's fundamentally the wrong approach to take to the conversation, if you did your own research or thought about it both groups are essentially different, not two sides of the same coin at all. The fact that there are these supremacists and that they have an extremely flawed way of thinking, and the fact that they feel safe coming out in rallies publicly is something to be WORRIED about, as a human being, because anyone that confident in their views and beliefs and lacking any kind of empathy can't be convinced otherwise easily, and is regressive for us as society in general. I know some of you who read this may subconsciously get defensive or offended to a small degree although I haven't flamed or ridiculed anyone or any group in particular, or taken "sides", and have just expressed some worried thoughts. In my opinion, as a human, it is your duty to fight that discomfort, think about what you don't know, learn more, contemplate what's right and wrong by yourself and never reach a final answer. The only way to elevate above these stupid trivial namecalling and hatred that's been going about since the beginning of humanity, in my opinion, is to make your empathy your ego and set love as your underlying objective about every action you take, not so much literally, but if you get what I mean you'll get it, otherwise you won't. And with that I'll end this cheesy but honest rant of mine and I hope you all have a great day. EDIT: I'm sure not a lot of people will get what I'm saying, but as long as you read what I have to say and have that in your memory, and if it made you question your beliefs about absolutely anything whether "you're left" or "you're right", I consider it a success. Youre free to disagree, as long as there's thought before disapproval. c u Fact of the matter is I don't think people who want to harm or genocide other peoples existence based on their color, orientation, background should be breathing air. The white privilege in this thread is rampant. Not that I am suprised. I understand in what perspective you're looking at. Trust me I do. But there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who thinks they can terrorize and oppress people into submission of these basic human right views. Lets just say. It's no shock that white males were the absolute majority at that march. And it says something. Know your privilege. Thanks for actually typing a coherent statement. The only way to the effectively change someone in this case would be to make them think for themselves, instead of pointing fingers at them. That rarely works out in a one to one mother to son relationship, so why would it here, among absolute strangers, hurting their ego when you have absolutely no power or control over them? I don't want to rant about everything else currently being talked about in this thread ideally, so I'm just going to cut it short and say that you have to see the people you feel so strongly against as people and find an empathetic way of telling them why they're wrong. As a person of white skin. When I hear statements towards "white people". I know they aren't talking about me. Basically what you're saying is that social media presented these "white males" with their shit and history, they got upset about things like "the history behind their confederate flags" or "things the main stream media doesn't cover such as cops beating and shooting black people". And they got uncomfortable. Sorry buddy but if you feel the need to whine and cry because YOU personally feel victimized over your privileged life style, I don't feel bad. These are also mostly grown ass men. Which makes it worse. And this is a example of the insane far left, nothing more than big bundles of hateful racists. Racism is subjugating a "group" of people based on superficial unimportant and false BS, basically. She isn't really doing that. Fuck I really didn't want to start going off on my tangents It's incredibly patronizing. It's implying that the targets of discrimination need a "shield" against those evil people that are discriminating against them. It's basically treating the discriminated groups as helpless children. It's no different from conceding the argument to racists that the discriminated groups are "below" the oppressors. Basically, it's an ideological battle between two groups who think themselves as superior compared to the discriminated group about who gets to decide the treatment of the discriminated group with the two choices being them either becoming second-class humans, or them entering in a relationship similar to drug seller and drug addict. In a way the "defenders of the oppressed" are worse than the actual oppressors. This pseudo-logic is a step above what the others have done. You've attempted thought. But the issue was, you attempted it with the intention of reaching the conclusion that the defenders of oppressors are worse than...the oppressors themselves(?) in the first place, which is why it ended up so flawed. Of course one group has an advantage in society over the other, if you're looking race wise, so it isn't a battle of equals. It is about population, political strength and influence, education and wealth, objective things, that YOU as a person should not feel bad about, but that still exist. Obviously standing up for those minorities can be done wrong, but as I said earlier in another message, it's approached with the intent of caring. You won't see a black or Mexican person feeling bad or angry about some feminists who stand up for them. That doesn't make sense. People who don't stand in the position of the oppressed can't say that the oppressed aren't being oppressed. The people defending the oppressed (just think about that statement, unless it's a flat out lie there's no WAY it's a negative thing) do so not for any personal gain. The oppressors, meanwhile, are and always will be the worst thing in a situation literally revolving around oppression. I tried my best to get my point through, and at this point any argument anyone has for me can be debunked from one of my earlier posts, honestly. Oh, but I don't mean that helping discriminated groups in itself is a bad thing. But the process HAS TO include concrete plans for helping the discriminated groups standing on their own feet from the very beginning, else it will be as it is now and such plans are pushed back endlessly with the excuse of "first wanting to completely eradicate racism", which history has shown is a bad idea, because it creates a long-term dependency, which is not, I asssume, the true, original intent of the people wanting to help those groups. In other words, if you already treat them like "children" of society, then at least take responsibility to the very end and make sure you help them grow into "adults" of society. I can honestly say that I admire people who actually do that, as it's one of the greatest contributions to society one can possibly make and it's definitly not an easy thing to do. However I have no sympathy at all for those who only seem to care about the immidiete symptoms of discrimination and stroke their own egos (i.e. "virtue signaling") for taking care of that without adressing the root cause, i.e. the people generally known as "Social Justice Warriors". im sorry if you think the very idea of Social Justice[ if upu look up its real dfernintion] and not the deferntion them sort f people as the right an dthe fake left then you are a fool imo The "warriors" in Social Justice Warriors clearly shows that this is a satirical term for people who are EXCESSIVELY obsessed with Social Justice. It's NOT a slight against "Social Justice" in itself. Eh...but like I said earlier, honestly who cares? Minorities aren't dumb by default, they won't be brainwashed by "SJWs" because everyone has their own ego. The only reason for them to agree with these "SJWs" is because they don't view them as a threat, and feel like they are justly represented. The things you mentioned that these "SJW" should be faulted for aren't actually harmful, they might not be right but they are things you can let go of. Social justice is originally an actually noble concept, even if it has been twisted or manipulated I can't see how it would be worse still than the actual "oppressors". That's like in a fantasy anime world, if there was a kingdom ruled under tyranny, where people were unhappy and the poor suffered, the people who together formed a rebellion to overthrow the rulers did so using not so great methods and did horrible stuff themselves would still not be worse than the ruling party, because the scale of control, the reason for doing what they do are all completely different. The rebelling party was only started because something was initially wrong right? In the same sense, these SJWs, who are white but hold a disdain for other groups of white people, like Stripesu would absolutely not if there wasn't an initial valid reason. Because who wants to hate people from their own race/gender/ethnicity/etc if there wasn't a valid reason for it that forced them to look past their ego? Maybe some parts of my analogy was terrible, I'm not great at that stuff, just had to think of something relatable to get my point across. Don't overthink it, just the core similarity about the two situations is what I'm talking about. If it was only about discrimination itself it would be fine, but the discriminated groups are often isolated by only interactiving among themselves and tend not to be in good shape economically. For example, the whole arguments involving "racial inequality" keep the focus of the discussions on race and how people should feel guilt and shame or pride just for having a certain skin color. That will never fix the problems of isolation and economic low for black people, simply because they are treated like some "spcial case that requires special care" instead of being treated individually as a human being. DateYutaka said: Grey-Zone said: DateYutaka said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: Definitely, those kind of people don't really help all too much, SJWs can be frustrating, but essentially what I don't understand is why you are more frustrated by those harmless people who just want to stroke their own ego compared to people who are effectively oppressing minorities also just to stroke their ego, except in this case it's scarier and shadier, because it involves domination and coming out on top, a more violent and regressive kind of behavior.zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Newhopes said: How would she/he be a racist if they're white themselves? They're being overly critical and angsty, not racist. They're far from insane, on the other end of the spectrum, they're angry and don't know what to do about it because of their feelings of empathy. Stripesu said: zealith7 said: Stripesu said: The whole thing about villainifying white males is what got a lot of them this whiny and uncomfortable in the first place. Using generalizations to fight generalizations won't ever work out especially if the opposing group or so to speak in this scenario is extremely powerful.zealith7 said: A lot of you really are beyond help. As a human, as soon as you think about yourself as being a part of a certain group of people, you get the urge to constantly defend them and be biased, which limits your ability to think objectively and fairly and only look at small scale victories rather than universal. Likewise, with any of these pointless groups (race is obviously included as a group, although a social construct, it's very real) you also have to establish an enemy or outsider group, as the binding force that really brings your community together since it's fueled by a lack of understanding and fear of the unknown. Curiosity, fear, disdain till it evolves to hatred, and like with how you might have the urge to defend your own people, you have the urge to attack others. This whole "Nazi's are bad? B-but ANTIFA" thing is wrong because that's fundamentally the wrong approach to take to the conversation, if you did your own research or thought about it both groups are essentially different, not two sides of the same coin at all. The fact that there are these supremacists and that they have an extremely flawed way of thinking, and the fact that they feel safe coming out in rallies publicly is something to be WORRIED about, as a human being, because anyone that confident in their views and beliefs and lacking any kind of empathy can't be convinced otherwise easily, and is regressive for us as society in general. I know some of you who read this may subconsciously get defensive or offended to a small degree although I haven't flamed or ridiculed anyone or any group in particular, or taken "sides", and have just expressed some worried thoughts. In my opinion, as a human, it is your duty to fight that discomfort, think about what you don't know, learn more, contemplate what's right and wrong by yourself and never reach a final answer. The only way to elevate above these stupid trivial namecalling and hatred that's been going about since the beginning of humanity, in my opinion, is to make your empathy your ego and set love as your underlying objective about every action you take, not so much literally, but if you get what I mean you'll get it, otherwise you won't. And with that I'll end this cheesy but honest rant of mine and I hope you all have a great day. EDIT: I'm sure not a lot of people will get what I'm saying, but as long as you read what I have to say and have that in your memory, and if it made you question your beliefs about absolutely anything whether "you're left" or "you're right", I consider it a success. Youre free to disagree, as long as there's thought before disapproval. c u Fact of the matter is I don't think people who want to harm or genocide other peoples existence based on their color, orientation, background should be breathing air. The white privilege in this thread is rampant. Not that I am suprised. I understand in what perspective you're looking at. Trust me I do. But there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who thinks they can terrorize and oppress people into submission of these basic human right views. Lets just say. It's no shock that white males were the absolute majority at that march. And it says something. Know your privilege. Thanks for actually typing a coherent statement. The only way to the effectively change someone in this case would be to make them think for themselves, instead of pointing fingers at them. That rarely works out in a one to one mother to son relationship, so why would it here, among absolute strangers, hurting their ego when you have absolutely no power or control over them? I don't want to rant about everything else currently being talked about in this thread ideally, so I'm just going to cut it short and say that you have to see the people you feel so strongly against as people and find an empathetic way of telling them why they're wrong. As a person of white skin. When I hear statements towards "white people". I know they aren't talking about me. Basically what you're saying is that social media presented these "white males" with their shit and history, they got upset about things like "the history behind their confederate flags" or "things the main stream media doesn't cover such as cops beating and shooting black people". And they got uncomfortable. Sorry buddy but if you feel the need to whine and cry because YOU personally feel victimized over your privileged life style, I don't feel bad. These are also mostly grown ass men. Which makes it worse. And this is a example of the insane far left, nothing more than big bundles of hateful racists. Racism is subjugating a "group" of people based on superficial unimportant and false BS, basically. She isn't really doing that. Fuck I really didn't want to start going off on my tangents It's incredibly patronizing. It's implying that the targets of discrimination need a "shield" against those evil people that are discriminating against them. It's basically treating the discriminated groups as helpless children. It's no different from conceding the argument to racists that the discriminated groups are "below" the oppressors. Basically, it's an ideological battle between two groups who think themselves as superior compared to the discriminated group about who gets to decide the treatment of the discriminated group with the two choices being them either becoming second-class humans, or them entering in a relationship similar to drug seller and drug addict. In a way the "defenders of the oppressed" are worse than the actual oppressors. This pseudo-logic is a step above what the others have done. You've attempted thought. But the issue was, you attempted it with the intention of reaching the conclusion that the defenders of oppressors are worse than...the oppressors themselves(?) in the first place, which is why it ended up so flawed. Of course one group has an advantage in society over the other, if you're looking race wise, so it isn't a battle of equals. It is about population, political strength and influence, education and wealth, objective things, that YOU as a person should not feel bad about, but that still exist. Obviously standing up for those minorities can be done wrong, but as I said earlier in another message, it's approached with the intent of caring. You won't see a black or Mexican person feeling bad or angry about some feminists who stand up for them. That doesn't make sense. People who don't stand in the position of the oppressed can't say that the oppressed aren't being oppressed. The people defending the oppressed (just think about that statement, unless it's a flat out lie there's no WAY it's a negative thing) do so not for any personal gain. The oppressors, meanwhile, are and always will be the worst thing in a situation literally revolving around oppression. I tried my best to get my point through, and at this point any argument anyone has for me can be debunked from one of my earlier posts, honestly. Oh, but I don't mean that helping discriminated groups in itself is a bad thing. But the process HAS TO include concrete plans for helping the discriminated groups standing on their own feet from the very beginning, else it will be as it is now and such plans are pushed back endlessly with the excuse of "first wanting to completely eradicate racism", which history has shown is a bad idea, because it creates a long-term dependency, which is not, I asssume, the true, original intent of the people wanting to help those groups. In other words, if you already treat them like "children" of society, then at least take responsibility to the very end and make sure you help them grow into "adults" of society. I can honestly say that I admire people who actually do that, as it's one of the greatest contributions to society one can possibly make and it's definitly not an easy thing to do. However I have no sympathy at all for those who only seem to care about the immidiete symptoms of discrimination and stroke their own egos (i.e. "virtue signaling") for taking care of that without adressing the root cause, i.e. the people generally known as "Social Justice Warriors". Yes, you don't have to view one group being perfect and the other being horrible, it's okay to criticize both, and I feel like in this situation I couldn't care less what people like SJWs do because while they might be insufferable it initially stems from good intent and sensitivity, and I know that SJWs don't have a frightening amount of power, influence, or truly violent or regressive visions for the future. You're free to criticize them, but you should also acknowledge the other end of the spectrum, the reason this thread was started, and criticize that more than the pro left. Not because of which side you support but because of which is more destructive and harmful. The reason why I find SJWs most problematic out of all is because they essentially hijacked the "help the discriminated groups"-camp and any kind of reasonable disagreements with them is often met with accusations of some "-ism" because they aren't thinking about long-term solutions, but rather short-term gratification of caused by the delusion of "having done something good", all based on some ambiguous moral codex. So admiting that they are wrong would make them losing this "hero-like" feeling, i.e. it causes cognitive dissonance. If it was only up to that they could just be ignored, but the SJW's biggest "sin" is implanting the beliefs into the discriminated groups that they are their "heroes in shining armor" who they should rely on to protect them. It's only natural that the SJWs would say that, because the feeling of "being a hero" is what primarily motivates them to do all that in the first place. But as I just explained, it should be the opposite, i.e. the discriminated groups should become independent as individuals and not need to rely on others like that. That's what makes SJWs so troublesome to deal with, because to get them out of the way you have to deny their delusional "calling", which will most definitly lead to unreasonable reactions, because no one likes experiencing cogntivite dissonance. DateYutaka said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Newhopes said: How would she/he be a racist if they're white themselves? They're being overly critical and angsty, not racist. They're far from insane, on the other end of the spectrum, they're angry and don't know what to do about it because of their feelings of empathy. Stripesu said: zealith7 said: Stripesu said: The whole thing about villainifying white males is what got a lot of them this whiny and uncomfortable in the first place. Using generalizations to fight generalizations won't ever work out especially if the opposing group or so to speak in this scenario is extremely powerful.zealith7 said: A lot of you really are beyond help. As a human, as soon as you think about yourself as being a part of a certain group of people, you get the urge to constantly defend them and be biased, which limits your ability to think objectively and fairly and only look at small scale victories rather than universal. Likewise, with any of these pointless groups (race is obviously included as a group, although a social construct, it's very real) you also have to establish an enemy or outsider group, as the binding force that really brings your community together since it's fueled by a lack of understanding and fear of the unknown. Curiosity, fear, disdain till it evolves to hatred, and like with how you might have the urge to defend your own people, you have the urge to attack others. This whole "Nazi's are bad? B-but ANTIFA" thing is wrong because that's fundamentally the wrong approach to take to the conversation, if you did your own research or thought about it both groups are essentially different, not two sides of the same coin at all. The fact that there are these supremacists and that they have an extremely flawed way of thinking, and the fact that they feel safe coming out in rallies publicly is something to be WORRIED about, as a human being, because anyone that confident in their views and beliefs and lacking any kind of empathy can't be convinced otherwise easily, and is regressive for us as society in general. I know some of you who read this may subconsciously get defensive or offended to a small degree although I haven't flamed or ridiculed anyone or any group in particular, or taken "sides", and have just expressed some worried thoughts. In my opinion, as a human, it is your duty to fight that discomfort, think about what you don't know, learn more, contemplate what's right and wrong by yourself and never reach a final answer. The only way to elevate above these stupid trivial namecalling and hatred that's been going about since the beginning of humanity, in my opinion, is to make your empathy your ego and set love as your underlying objective about every action you take, not so much literally, but if you get what I mean you'll get it, otherwise you won't. And with that I'll end this cheesy but honest rant of mine and I hope you all have a great day. EDIT: I'm sure not a lot of people will get what I'm saying, but as long as you read what I have to say and have that in your memory, and if it made you question your beliefs about absolutely anything whether "you're left" or "you're right", I consider it a success. Youre free to disagree, as long as there's thought before disapproval. c u Fact of the matter is I don't think people who want to harm or genocide other peoples existence based on their color, orientation, background should be breathing air. The white privilege in this thread is rampant. Not that I am suprised. I understand in what perspective you're looking at. Trust me I do. But there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who thinks they can terrorize and oppress people into submission of these basic human right views. Lets just say. It's no shock that white males were the absolute majority at that march. And it says something. Know your privilege. Thanks for actually typing a coherent statement. The only way to the effectively change someone in this case would be to make them think for themselves, instead of pointing fingers at them. That rarely works out in a one to one mother to son relationship, so why would it here, among absolute strangers, hurting their ego when you have absolutely no power or control over them? I don't want to rant about everything else currently being talked about in this thread ideally, so I'm just going to cut it short and say that you have to see the people you feel so strongly against as people and find an empathetic way of telling them why they're wrong. As a person of white skin. When I hear statements towards "white people". I know they aren't talking about me. Basically what you're saying is that social media presented these "white males" with their shit and history, they got upset about things like "the history behind their confederate flags" or "things the main stream media doesn't cover such as cops beating and shooting black people". And they got uncomfortable. Sorry buddy but if you feel the need to whine and cry because YOU personally feel victimized over your privileged life style, I don't feel bad. These are also mostly grown ass men. Which makes it worse. And this is a example of the insane far left, nothing more than big bundles of hateful racists. Racism is subjugating a "group" of people based on superficial unimportant and false BS, basically. She isn't really doing that. Fuck I really didn't want to start going off on my tangents It's incredibly patronizing. It's implying that the targets of discrimination need a "shield" against those evil people that are discriminating against them. It's basically treating the discriminated groups as helpless children. It's no different from conceding the argument to racists that the discriminated groups are "below" the oppressors. Basically, it's an ideological battle between two groups who think themselves as superior compared to the discriminated group about who gets to decide the treatment of the discriminated group with the two choices being them either becoming second-class humans, or them entering in a relationship similar to drug seller and drug addict. In a way the "defenders of the oppressed" are worse than the actual oppressors. This pseudo-logic is a step above what the others have done. You've attempted thought. But the issue was, you attempted it with the intention of reaching the conclusion that the defenders of oppressors are worse than...the oppressors themselves(?) in the first place, which is why it ended up so flawed. Of course one group has an advantage in society over the other, if you're looking race wise, so it isn't a battle of equals. It is about population, political strength and influence, education and wealth, objective things, that YOU as a person should not feel bad about, but that still exist. Obviously standing up for those minorities can be done wrong, but as I said earlier in another message, it's approached with the intent of caring. You won't see a black or Mexican person feeling bad or angry about some feminists who stand up for them. That doesn't make sense. People who don't stand in the position of the oppressed can't say that the oppressed aren't being oppressed. The people defending the oppressed (just think about that statement, unless it's a flat out lie there's no WAY it's a negative thing) do so not for any personal gain. The oppressors, meanwhile, are and always will be the worst thing in a situation literally revolving around oppression. I tried my best to get my point through, and at this point any argument anyone has for me can be debunked from one of my earlier posts, honestly. Oh, but I don't mean that helping discriminated groups in itself is a bad thing. But the process HAS TO include concrete plans for helping the discriminated groups standing on their own feet from the very beginning, else it will be as it is now and such plans are pushed back endlessly with the excuse of "first wanting to completely eradicate racism", which history has shown is a bad idea, because it creates a long-term dependency, which is not, I asssume, the true, original intent of the people wanting to help those groups. In other words, if you already treat them like "children" of society, then at least take responsibility to the very end and make sure you help them grow into "adults" of society. I can honestly say that I admire people who actually do that, as it's one of the greatest contributions to society one can possibly make and it's definitly not an easy thing to do. However I have no sympathy at all for those who only seem to care about the immidiete symptoms of discrimination and stroke their own egos (i.e. "virtue signaling") for taking care of that without adressing the root cause, i.e. the people generally known as "Social Justice Warriors". im sorry if you think the very idea of Social Justice[ if upu look up its real dfernintion] and not the deferntion them sort f people as the right an dthe fake left then you are a fool imo The "warriors" in Social Justice Warriors clearly shows that this is a satirical term for people who are EXCESSIVELY obsessed with Social Justice. It's NOT a slight against "Social Justice" in itself. im sorry what was that huge thing with sargon wanting to ban Social Justice study in higher education im sorry i though the fake left/ new right like sargon are anti censorship banning any thing is cenorship imo There is a difference between Social Justice as a concept in general (usually based on one's own individual beliefs, for better or worse) and Social Justice that is "taught" to people with a certain set of "standards" that condemns any kind of "wrongthink" or "diverging views" and opposes critical thinking in general. If you want higher education that deals with moral standards - that exists under the term "ethics". DateYutaka said: Grey-Zone said: zodd0 said: omfgplzstop said: White privilege is a racist idea. You are saying that having a certain skin color makes you complicit with and/or a beneficiary of racism. No, unlike you I actually know what white privilege is. Once again, we can't really have a discussion about it until you have read up on it and understand what it is. And we both know that won't happen. "White privilege" is a meaningless term, that is politically and ideologically motivated and that did not lead to a constructive discussion, ever. In the first place the causality of the concept has never been proven, i.e. it's as unscientific as it gets. It's just as fallacious a concept as the whole "average of IQ is lower for blacks than whites because they are dumber" bullshit from the racist people or the "70 cents per dollar gender gap" delusion. as tradnation lefteit i aks my se this every day what the fuck as happened ot the left in the west yes social libertarianism is one of the most old fashion leftist ideals hwnce whhu i call people like sargon fake left there as fare form social libertarian as possiable thye aspose more right wing views than social libertarian ones Why do you always have to bring up Sargon of Akkad? While I agree with SOME of the things he says, I am not him and I don't understand why you bring him up all the time. hes the most promnate voice on the fake left while all the rightes hes chums ith miuns uzalu amit there right wing alot of the fake left do not and most of them claim ot be social libertarian/cultrual libertarian withc there not since there all statist down ot key Maybe you should instead just stop obsessing about the whole "left" and "right" thing. People interpret it however it's convenient for them anyway. I said what was needed to be said already. Like literally everything. Either people didn't read, understand or just chose to ignore what I wrote, I assume. And I don't think I can bother arguing again since no one really wants to accept the fact that they could be wrong at all. |
Rinth said: Every opinion is not equal. Some opinions are simply made out of shit. nasuverse > your favorite anime |
Aug 14, 2017 11:54 PM
#252
Yomiyuki said: He said I hate all Muslims because I'm a right-wing jew a while back. Identity politics are really quite garbage. And yes, I'm talking to you too.DrGeroCreation said: nice job taking what i said out of context. Nico- said: Pretty sure Yomiyuki is Latino. What are you going to do next, call him a race traitor for not hating white people? Here he talks about his love of white culture and how he wouldn't marry a Mexican girl. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1650777 Yomiyuki said: the cultures that i appreciate and admire the most were 9/10 times created and developed by whites. as well as the vast majority of music, literature, and other arts that i like. a mexican is a mexican. background doesn't matter. and that thread was about race mixing, i don't plan on marrying a mexican girl, but i don't mean that i would be heavily against it. i've even made countless posts about how much i dislike the euro-mexicans that discriminate heavily against mestizos, which btw is even more common and accepted than white-on-black discrimination in the U.S. |
Rinth said: Every opinion is not equal. Some opinions are simply made out of shit. nasuverse > your favorite anime |
Aug 14, 2017 11:59 PM
#253
spuukiebuugi said: Altairius said: The guy who drove his car through people was having his car hit by baseball bats just before doing so. Your excuse again smells like bullshit. The fact that he had his car in the middle of a crowd was suspicious enough in the first place, the motive seems crystal clear to me. Or are you just sad that your little nazi cronies are being as violent as antifa? I'm sure you would have been real careful if your car was being attacked by Nazis with bats. Watch, the court will determine it's manslaughter at most, and the media will just move on from the story. Antifa explicitly supports and commits violence constantly, even against reporters. I listen to the main guys on the Alt Right, and they constantly say "don't do anything illegal". The fact that you're pretending there is some equivalence proves you're not some "fair centrist". |
Aug 15, 2017 12:06 AM
#254
Altairius said: spuukiebuugi said: Altairius said: The guy who drove his car through people was having his car hit by baseball bats just before doing so. Your excuse again smells like bullshit. The fact that he had his car in the middle of a crowd was suspicious enough in the first place, the motive seems crystal clear to me. Or are you just sad that your little nazi cronies are being as violent as antifa? I'm sure you would have been real careful if your car was being attacked by Nazis with bats. Watch, the court will determine it's manslaughter at most, and the media will just move on from the story. Antifa explicitly supports and commits violence constantly, even against reporters. I listen to the main guys on the Alt Right, and they constantly say "don't do anything illegal". The fact that you're pretending there is some equivalence proves you're not some "fair centrist". Why did he even go near the crowd in the first place is what the real question is. |
Aug 15, 2017 12:09 AM
#255
omfgplzstop said: Yomiyuki said: He said I hate all Muslims because I'm a right-wing jew a while back. Identity politics are really quite garbage. And yes, I'm talking to you too.DrGeroCreation said: Nico- said: Yomiyuki is a white Mexican (Mexican of European descent) that dislikes brown Mexicans (mestizos) and possibly other non whites. There is nothing incorrect about Bacardi-x-Cola calling Yomiyuki a white person considering he is a white person and heavily enjoys white culture. The fact that he is also latino doesn't make him not white.Pretty sure Yomiyuki is Latino. What are you going to do next, call him a race traitor for not hating white people? Here he talks about his love of white culture and how he wouldn't marry a Mexican girl. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1650777 Yomiyuki said: the cultures that i appreciate and admire the most were 9/10 times created and developed by whites. as well as the vast majority of music, literature, and other arts that i like. a mexican is a mexican. background doesn't matter. and that thread was about race mixing, i don't plan on marrying a mexican girl, but i don't mean that i would be heavily against it. i've even made countless posts about how much i dislike the euro-mexicans that discriminate heavily against mestizos, which btw is even more common and accepted than white-on-black discrimination in the U.S. i thought that was swirly that told you that. identity politics are necessary in some way when the need arises. the left does this very wrongly, and i'd say some of the right in the U.S. have more understandable reasons for using them, but not as badly as europe has. the right also takes hits from people like andrew anglin poisoning legitimate right wing movements, so this spurs on people accusing them of identity politics too. though im not sure if you mean that i use identity politics and it's bad? |
 Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places But we're trash, you and me We're the litter on the breeze We're the lovers on the streets Just trash, me and you It's in everything we do It's in everything we do |
Aug 15, 2017 1:22 AM
#256
Yomiyuki said: nah, swirly thinks i'm an american zionist who wants to kill palestinian children iircomfgplzstop said: Yomiyuki said: DrGeroCreation said: nice job taking what i said out of context. Nico- said: Yomiyuki is a white Mexican (Mexican of European descent) that dislikes brown Mexicans (mestizos) and possibly other non whites. There is nothing incorrect about Bacardi-x-Cola calling Yomiyuki a white person considering he is a white person and heavily enjoys white culture. The fact that he is also latino doesn't make him not white.Pretty sure Yomiyuki is Latino. What are you going to do next, call him a race traitor for not hating white people? Here he talks about his love of white culture and how he wouldn't marry a Mexican girl. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1650777 Yomiyuki said: the cultures that i appreciate and admire the most were 9/10 times created and developed by whites. as well as the vast majority of music, literature, and other arts that i like. a mexican is a mexican. background doesn't matter. and that thread was about race mixing, i don't plan on marrying a mexican girl, but i don't mean that i would be heavily against it. i've even made countless posts about how much i dislike the euro-mexicans that discriminate heavily against mestizos, which btw is even more common and accepted than white-on-black discrimination in the U.S. i thought that was swirly that told you that. identity politics are necessary in some way when the need arises. the left does this very wrongly, and i'd say some of the right in the U.S. have more understandable reasons for using them, but not as badly as europe has. the right also takes hits from people like andrew anglin poisoning legitimate right wing movements, so this spurs on people accusing them of identity politics too. though im not sure if you mean that i use identity politics and it's bad? no, they are not. Identity politics are not necessary. They create divisiveness and phantoms. Focus on values. The reason I don't want open borders for Israel is not because I only want it to have jews in it, I don't. I have friends who are not jewish, I could not care less about their ethnicity. I don't want open borders because the countries surrounding us contain populations whose hatred for us and desire to destroy the country are polling at astounding percentages, and also because of the fact that jews specifically have been persecuted throughout history over and over again and it's led me to be very paranoid about losing the jewish majority that makes Israel a safe haven for jews. So I don't want groups that are not jewish to become the majority only because I'm terrified of history repeating itself, regardless of likelihood. America is the best country for jews alongside (and possibly more than) israel, for example, because of its values, not because it was "created by whites." It's fine if you think whites are the ones who came up with these values and should be credited for them (which could be false depending on your definition of "whites" and where you think the values came from, but I won't get into it), but to value their whiteness over those values is sheer asininity. Other whites created it in the past, not all whites are the whites who created them, and the kinds of people who would try to take credit for those values because of their ethnicity would certainly not be capable of creating them. I care about jewish culture, so i'll defend it based on its values, not because it's the culture of the jews. I'm not going to deny any non-jewish person the right to appreciate it or benefit from it. that'd be the same as saying non-japanese have no right to or cannot appreciate japanese culture. Again, I fear groups that are not jewish in Israel becoming the majority only because anti-semitism (a value/idea) never seems to go away. Kind of similar to other derivatives of Marxism like identity politics. I specifically fear Muslim groups, because very large numbers of Muslims have declared outright they want to murder jews or impose muslim law on Israel. Their values are at odds with my own, which can be summed up as a belief in maximum freedom from coercion by others and in the pursuit of truth. But I don't judge any individual based on their ethnicity or what they identify as, only based on their values and ideas, and I'd much rather be fighting anti-semitism than Muslims. I do mean that, but I don't mean that you use it to the same extent as some other people--I haven't paid enough attention to know whether that's true. I'm guilty of succumbing to tribalism too sometimes. Acknowledging one group of people is statistically more likely to do something is not identity politics. The latter tries to confine people to their group. white nationalists either forget that the people responsible for a lot of horrors throughout history were also white or pretend that they weren't, i.e. altairius excusing 20th century stuff with "jewish bolshevism." and you know it's pointless to argue about it (don't worry altairius, i'll probably still type up a response to some of the other stuff you said) because their ideology has completely consumed their thought process. even if i explained to him that israel was not given to jews by anyone and that the early zionists fought and suffered heavy casualties for it, he will insist that it was given to them by white people and that i'm distorting history. Or he'll find another excuse for why jews managed to build and maintain a civilization despite massive obstacles without being "white," probably involving aid from "white countries"--nevermind that the US actually supported the Arabs in 1956 and only started interfering in favor of Israel in 1973--because the Arabs were trained and supplied by the Soviets and also because Nixon feared a desperate Israel going nuclear. I agree with you that the right takes hits when the media tries to associate them with people like Anglin. That's a byproduct of identity politics, and it's one of the things helping movements like white nationalism grow by, for example, driving some people to defend what they think is the "alt-right" in a kneejerk reaction. I think it's ironic considering the alt-right openly rejects constitutional conservatism. but yeah, bottom line is that you should unite under values, not race. those kinds of characteristics are pretty meaningless if you don't convince yourself that race denotes values, which is identity politics or neo/cultural marxism and has led, like any other iteration of marxism--and by that i mean the idea of different classes, oppressors and oppressed--to many catastrophes. |
omfgplzstopAug 15, 2017 1:42 AM
Rinth said: Every opinion is not equal. Some opinions are simply made out of shit. nasuverse > your favorite anime |
Aug 15, 2017 1:32 AM
#257
Nico- said: Bacardi-x-Cola said: I've been proven wrong, clearly white people like @Yomiyuki rule the world so I'll stop trying, my dumbass has nothing worth saying, so I'll stfu,hopefully I can find a place for myself before Kim kills us all. Oh wait...  Pretty sure Yomiyuki is Latino. What are you going to do next, call him a race traitor for not hating white people? DUH! Fucking spic can't hate white people!? That idiot, that gringo needs to learn some sense. |
Aug 15, 2017 1:52 AM
#258
omfgplzstop said: but yeah, bottom line is that you should unite under values, not race. those kinds of characteristics are pretty meaningless if you don't convince yourself that race denotes values, which is identity politics or neo/cultural marxism and has led, like any other iteration of marxism--and by that i mean the idea of different classes, oppressors and oppressed--to many catastrophes. The problem is when only whites do that and every other race shows zero indication of doing so, in general. Who wins, the team that only passes to their own team, or the team who passes at random? This sort of collectivist mindset might be less natural for whites, but a lot of them move toward the Alt Right as a defensive posture. |
Aug 15, 2017 1:55 AM
#259
| sink coulr does not = race that s fact |
| "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine" When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one For the Union makes us strong |
Aug 15, 2017 2:14 AM
#260
| why won't they just arrest all of them, this is just sick. |
Aug 15, 2017 2:57 AM
#261
Altairius said: I don't disagree with all of that. The point remains, though, that you should not exclude blacks who share your values just because a large portion of other blacks don't. Thomas Sowell is a figure I have immense respect for and share values with, I would not be able to come across him and benefit from his work if he was distanced from western civilization or western civilization distanced itself from him. omfgplzstop said: but yeah, bottom line is that you should unite under values, not race. those kinds of characteristics are pretty meaningless if you don't convince yourself that race denotes values, which is identity politics or neo/cultural marxism and has led, like any other iteration of marxism--and by that i mean the idea of different classes, oppressors and oppressed--to many catastrophes. The problem is when only whites do that and every other race shows zero indication of doing so, in general. Who wins, the team that only passes to their own team, or the team who passes at random? This sort of collectivist mindset might be less natural for whites, but a lot of them move toward the Alt Right as a defensive posture. You won't benefit from rejecting the people at the top because of the people at the bottom if those people at the bottom aren't bothering you, and there will always be people at the bottom who suffer from the same issues, even if a certain population suffers more often. I don't think you'd benefit from rejecting all jews and their contributions because a lot of them believe in leftism either. In the first place, societies are not advanced by a majority of their population. It's always a minority that makes the most progress. And crime seems to be solved by handling the same things--crime enforcement, segregation and a lack of a proper family structure, as a few examples. Besides--the black community agrees with the right on a lot more than they do with the left, if you look at polls. It's only this asinine idea of rampant racism that is constantly pandered to (also by whites) that they support and pushes them towards the rest of it, and you see the same happen with a lot of women supporting or defending feminism because they think it speaks for them. Then there's stuff like the Flynn effect which I already mentioned--since absolute usefulness/abstract problem solving skills are growing in modernized societies, I don't think it should matter if you're lower on average if you're still high enough to be useful. Assuming I accept your premise that blacks have lower IQ than "whites," accepting your definition of whites, on average due to solely genetics, which is a messy subject I won't get into (or maybe later), as well as that IQ is the sole predictor of your value to a society. The argument I respect the most from you is the ethnic diversity results in conflict one, but it's precisely why I think people should unite under common values of individualism instead of separating into groups. I bring up the Druze a lot, and they're a tiny community so idk how good an example they are, but there's no violent conflict between them and the jewish population because they believe in the same values of human rights, and any small conflicts I might he unaware of are far outweighed by their contribution to society. The reason I strongly oppose multiculturaism and negligent border policies are that they do not assert you must share the country's values. They don't demand you assimilate. This creates conflict and hurts those important values. By the way, I'm not at all against individuals having pride in their ethnicity or heritage, I think it can be fun and nice and everything--I like jewish heritage and think it's really cool that jews have been involved in so much or have this history of persecution and survived, and even feel connected to that history because of how Israel's treated. But I utterly and completely object to letting it define who you are, or who anyone else is. |
omfgplzstopAug 16, 2017 4:18 AM
Rinth said: Every opinion is not equal. Some opinions are simply made out of shit. nasuverse > your favorite anime |
Aug 15, 2017 3:41 AM
#262
Aynyan said: why won't they just arrest all of them, this is just sick. Maybe because they had permition to march and didn't caused riots and general violance that trash like antifa and blm usually does. |
Aug 15, 2017 4:02 AM
#263
| This is distracting us from the real topic we should be discussing, the fact that some SICK FUCKS don't enjoy pineapples on their pizza.Those are the real scum of the earth. |
  ｍａｌ'ｓ ＣＹＢＥＲ ｒａｃｃｏｏｎ ＣＹＢＥＲ ｂｏｏｐ ! ｆｒｏｍ ｔｈｅ ｄｉｓｔａｎｔ ｙｅａｒ ｏｆ ２０２６ ｔｈｅＣＹＢＥＲ ｐｏｌｉｃｅ ａｒｅ ａｆｔｅｒ ｍｅ ! |
Aug 15, 2017 4:18 AM
#264
koolkai_123 said: nice memeThis is distracting us from the real topic we should be discussing, the fact that some SICK FUCKS don't enjoy pineapples on their pizza.Those are the real scum of the earth. i appreciate it |
Rinth said: Every opinion is not equal. Some opinions are simply made out of shit. nasuverse > your favorite anime |
Aug 15, 2017 5:51 AM
#265
This pic is fucking great. Actually good video from vice. |
LJohnAug 15, 2017 6:14 AM
Aug 16, 2017 10:46 AM
#266
omfgplzstop said: Yeah that response won't do. I've assessed the situation, I don't have a personal or emotional bias, I've gone through sources, I've heard the opinions of the intellectuals and the delusionals, your reply doesn't enlighten me to new truths at all.zealith7 said: I think you're the one who fails to accept the fact that he could be wrong at all. I won't get into it, but try thinking about it a little.Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: Definitely, those kind of people don't really help all too much, SJWs can be frustrating, but essentially what I don't understand is why you are more frustrated by those harmless people who just want to stroke their own ego compared to people who are effectively oppressing minorities also just to stroke their ego, except in this case it's scarier and shadier, because it involves domination and coming out on top, a more violent and regressive kind of behavior.zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Newhopes said: How would she/he be a racist if they're white themselves? They're being overly critical and angsty, not racist. They're far from insane, on the other end of the spectrum, they're angry and don't know what to do about it because of their feelings of empathy. Stripesu said: zealith7 said: Stripesu said: The whole thing about villainifying white males is what got a lot of them this whiny and uncomfortable in the first place. Using generalizations to fight generalizations won't ever work out especially if the opposing group or so to speak in this scenario is extremely powerful.zealith7 said: A lot of you really are beyond help. As a human, as soon as you think about yourself as being a part of a certain group of people, you get the urge to constantly defend them and be biased, which limits your ability to think objectively and fairly and only look at small scale victories rather than universal. Likewise, with any of these pointless groups (race is obviously included as a group, although a social construct, it's very real) you also have to establish an enemy or outsider group, as the binding force that really brings your community together since it's fueled by a lack of understanding and fear of the unknown. Curiosity, fear, disdain till it evolves to hatred, and like with how you might have the urge to defend your own people, you have the urge to attack others. This whole "Nazi's are bad? B-but ANTIFA" thing is wrong because that's fundamentally the wrong approach to take to the conversation, if you did your own research or thought about it both groups are essentially different, not two sides of the same coin at all. The fact that there are these supremacists and that they have an extremely flawed way of thinking, and the fact that they feel safe coming out in rallies publicly is something to be WORRIED about, as a human being, because anyone that confident in their views and beliefs and lacking any kind of empathy can't be convinced otherwise easily, and is regressive for us as society in general. I know some of you who read this may subconsciously get defensive or offended to a small degree although I haven't flamed or ridiculed anyone or any group in particular, or taken "sides", and have just expressed some worried thoughts. In my opinion, as a human, it is your duty to fight that discomfort, think about what you don't know, learn more, contemplate what's right and wrong by yourself and never reach a final answer. The only way to elevate above these stupid trivial namecalling and hatred that's been going about since the beginning of humanity, in my opinion, is to make your empathy your ego and set love as your underlying objective about every action you take, not so much literally, but if you get what I mean you'll get it, otherwise you won't. And with that I'll end this cheesy but honest rant of mine and I hope you all have a great day. EDIT: I'm sure not a lot of people will get what I'm saying, but as long as you read what I have to say and have that in your memory, and if it made you question your beliefs about absolutely anything whether "you're left" or "you're right", I consider it a success. Youre free to disagree, as long as there's thought before disapproval. c u Fact of the matter is I don't think people who want to harm or genocide other peoples existence based on their color, orientation, background should be breathing air. The white privilege in this thread is rampant. Not that I am suprised. I understand in what perspective you're looking at. Trust me I do. But there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who thinks they can terrorize and oppress people into submission of these basic human right views. Lets just say. It's no shock that white males were the absolute majority at that march. And it says something. Know your privilege. Thanks for actually typing a coherent statement. The only way to the effectively change someone in this case would be to make them think for themselves, instead of pointing fingers at them. That rarely works out in a one to one mother to son relationship, so why would it here, among absolute strangers, hurting their ego when you have absolutely no power or control over them? I don't want to rant about everything else currently being talked about in this thread ideally, so I'm just going to cut it short and say that you have to see the people you feel so strongly against as people and find an empathetic way of telling them why they're wrong. As a person of white skin. When I hear statements towards "white people". I know they aren't talking about me. Basically what you're saying is that social media presented these "white males" with their shit and history, they got upset about things like "the history behind their confederate flags" or "things the main stream media doesn't cover such as cops beating and shooting black people". And they got uncomfortable. Sorry buddy but if you feel the need to whine and cry because YOU personally feel victimized over your privileged life style, I don't feel bad. These are also mostly grown ass men. Which makes it worse. And this is a example of the insane far left, nothing more than big bundles of hateful racists. Racism is subjugating a "group" of people based on superficial unimportant and false BS, basically. She isn't really doing that. Fuck I really didn't want to start going off on my tangents It's incredibly patronizing. It's implying that the targets of discrimination need a "shield" against those evil people that are discriminating against them. It's basically treating the discriminated groups as helpless children. It's no different from conceding the argument to racists that the discriminated groups are "below" the oppressors. Basically, it's an ideological battle between two groups who think themselves as superior compared to the discriminated group about who gets to decide the treatment of the discriminated group with the two choices being them either becoming second-class humans, or them entering in a relationship similar to drug seller and drug addict. In a way the "defenders of the oppressed" are worse than the actual oppressors. This pseudo-logic is a step above what the others have done. You've attempted thought. But the issue was, you attempted it with the intention of reaching the conclusion that the defenders of oppressors are worse than...the oppressors themselves(?) in the first place, which is why it ended up so flawed. Of course one group has an advantage in society over the other, if you're looking race wise, so it isn't a battle of equals. It is about population, political strength and influence, education and wealth, objective things, that YOU as a person should not feel bad about, but that still exist. Obviously standing up for those minorities can be done wrong, but as I said earlier in another message, it's approached with the intent of caring. You won't see a black or Mexican person feeling bad or angry about some feminists who stand up for them. That doesn't make sense. People who don't stand in the position of the oppressed can't say that the oppressed aren't being oppressed. The people defending the oppressed (just think about that statement, unless it's a flat out lie there's no WAY it's a negative thing) do so not for any personal gain. The oppressors, meanwhile, are and always will be the worst thing in a situation literally revolving around oppression. I tried my best to get my point through, and at this point any argument anyone has for me can be debunked from one of my earlier posts, honestly. Oh, but I don't mean that helping discriminated groups in itself is a bad thing. But the process HAS TO include concrete plans for helping the discriminated groups standing on their own feet from the very beginning, else it will be as it is now and such plans are pushed back endlessly with the excuse of "first wanting to completely eradicate racism", which history has shown is a bad idea, because it creates a long-term dependency, which is not, I asssume, the true, original intent of the people wanting to help those groups. In other words, if you already treat them like "children" of society, then at least take responsibility to the very end and make sure you help them grow into "adults" of society. I can honestly say that I admire people who actually do that, as it's one of the greatest contributions to society one can possibly make and it's definitly not an easy thing to do. However I have no sympathy at all for those who only seem to care about the immidiete symptoms of discrimination and stroke their own egos (i.e. "virtue signaling") for taking care of that without adressing the root cause, i.e. the people generally known as "Social Justice Warriors". Yes, you don't have to view one group being perfect and the other being horrible, it's okay to criticize both, and I feel like in this situation I couldn't care less what people like SJWs do because while they might be insufferable it initially stems from good intent and sensitivity, and I know that SJWs don't have a frightening amount of power, influence, or truly violent or regressive visions for the future. You're free to criticize them, but you should also acknowledge the other end of the spectrum, the reason this thread was started, and criticize that more than the pro left. Not because of which side you support but because of which is more destructive and harmful. The reason why I find SJWs most problematic out of all is because they essentially hijacked the "help the discriminated groups"-camp and any kind of reasonable disagreements with them is often met with accusations of some "-ism" because they aren't thinking about long-term solutions, but rather short-term gratification of caused by the delusion of "having done something good", all based on some ambiguous moral codex. So admiting that they are wrong would make them losing this "hero-like" feeling, i.e. it causes cognitive dissonance. If it was only up to that they could just be ignored, but the SJW's biggest "sin" is implanting the beliefs into the discriminated groups that they are their "heroes in shining armor" who they should rely on to protect them. It's only natural that the SJWs would say that, because the feeling of "being a hero" is what primarily motivates them to do all that in the first place. But as I just explained, it should be the opposite, i.e. the discriminated groups should become independent as individuals and not need to rely on others like that. That's what makes SJWs so troublesome to deal with, because to get them out of the way you have to deny their delusional "calling", which will most definitly lead to unreasonable reactions, because no one likes experiencing cogntivite dissonance. DateYutaka said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Newhopes said: How would she/he be a racist if they're white themselves? They're being overly critical and angsty, not racist. They're far from insane, on the other end of the spectrum, they're angry and don't know what to do about it because of their feelings of empathy. Stripesu said: zealith7 said: Stripesu said: The whole thing about villainifying white males is what got a lot of them this whiny and uncomfortable in the first place. Using generalizations to fight generalizations won't ever work out especially if the opposing group or so to speak in this scenario is extremely powerful.zealith7 said: A lot of you really are beyond help. As a human, as soon as you think about yourself as being a part of a certain group of people, you get the urge to constantly defend them and be biased, which limits your ability to think objectively and fairly and only look at small scale victories rather than universal. Likewise, with any of these pointless groups (race is obviously included as a group, although a social construct, it's very real) you also have to establish an enemy or outsider group, as the binding force that really brings your community together since it's fueled by a lack of understanding and fear of the unknown. Curiosity, fear, disdain till it evolves to hatred, and like with how you might have the urge to defend your own people, you have the urge to attack others. This whole "Nazi's are bad? B-but ANTIFA" thing is wrong because that's fundamentally the wrong approach to take to the conversation, if you did your own research or thought about it both groups are essentially different, not two sides of the same coin at all. The fact that there are these supremacists and that they have an extremely flawed way of thinking, and the fact that they feel safe coming out in rallies publicly is something to be WORRIED about, as a human being, because anyone that confident in their views and beliefs and lacking any kind of empathy can't be convinced otherwise easily, and is regressive for us as society in general. I know some of you who read this may subconsciously get defensive or offended to a small degree although I haven't flamed or ridiculed anyone or any group in particular, or taken "sides", and have just expressed some worried thoughts. In my opinion, as a human, it is your duty to fight that discomfort, think about what you don't know, learn more, contemplate what's right and wrong by yourself and never reach a final answer. The only way to elevate above these stupid trivial namecalling and hatred that's been going about since the beginning of humanity, in my opinion, is to make your empathy your ego and set love as your underlying objective about every action you take, not so much literally, but if you get what I mean you'll get it, otherwise you won't. And with that I'll end this cheesy but honest rant of mine and I hope you all have a great day. EDIT: I'm sure not a lot of people will get what I'm saying, but as long as you read what I have to say and have that in your memory, and if it made you question your beliefs about absolutely anything whether "you're left" or "you're right", I consider it a success. Youre free to disagree, as long as there's thought before disapproval. c u Fact of the matter is I don't think people who want to harm or genocide other peoples existence based on their color, orientation, background should be breathing air. The white privilege in this thread is rampant. Not that I am suprised. I understand in what perspective you're looking at. Trust me I do. But there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who thinks they can terrorize and oppress people into submission of these basic human right views. Lets just say. It's no shock that white males were the absolute majority at that march. And it says something. Know your privilege. Thanks for actually typing a coherent statement. The only way to the effectively change someone in this case would be to make them think for themselves, instead of pointing fingers at them. That rarely works out in a one to one mother to son relationship, so why would it here, among absolute strangers, hurting their ego when you have absolutely no power or control over them? I don't want to rant about everything else currently being talked about in this thread ideally, so I'm just going to cut it short and say that you have to see the people you feel so strongly against as people and find an empathetic way of telling them why they're wrong. As a person of white skin. When I hear statements towards "white people". I know they aren't talking about me. Basically what you're saying is that social media presented these "white males" with their shit and history, they got upset about things like "the history behind their confederate flags" or "things the main stream media doesn't cover such as cops beating and shooting black people". And they got uncomfortable. Sorry buddy but if you feel the need to whine and cry because YOU personally feel victimized over your privileged life style, I don't feel bad. These are also mostly grown ass men. Which makes it worse. And this is a example of the insane far left, nothing more than big bundles of hateful racists. Racism is subjugating a "group" of people based on superficial unimportant and false BS, basically. She isn't really doing that. Fuck I really didn't want to start going off on my tangents It's incredibly patronizing. It's implying that the targets of discrimination need a "shield" against those evil people that are discriminating against them. It's basically treating the discriminated groups as helpless children. It's no different from conceding the argument to racists that the discriminated groups are "below" the oppressors. Basically, it's an ideological battle between two groups who think themselves as superior compared to the discriminated group about who gets to decide the treatment of the discriminated group with the two choices being them either becoming second-class humans, or them entering in a relationship similar to drug seller and drug addict. In a way the "defenders of the oppressed" are worse than the actual oppressors. This pseudo-logic is a step above what the others have done. You've attempted thought. But the issue was, you attempted it with the intention of reaching the conclusion that the defenders of oppressors are worse than...the oppressors themselves(?) in the first place, which is why it ended up so flawed. Of course one group has an advantage in society over the other, if you're looking race wise, so it isn't a battle of equals. It is about population, political strength and influence, education and wealth, objective things, that YOU as a person should not feel bad about, but that still exist. Obviously standing up for those minorities can be done wrong, but as I said earlier in another message, it's approached with the intent of caring. You won't see a black or Mexican person feeling bad or angry about some feminists who stand up for them. That doesn't make sense. People who don't stand in the position of the oppressed can't say that the oppressed aren't being oppressed. The people defending the oppressed (just think about that statement, unless it's a flat out lie there's no WAY it's a negative thing) do so not for any personal gain. The oppressors, meanwhile, are and always will be the worst thing in a situation literally revolving around oppression. I tried my best to get my point through, and at this point any argument anyone has for me can be debunked from one of my earlier posts, honestly. Oh, but I don't mean that helping discriminated groups in itself is a bad thing. But the process HAS TO include concrete plans for helping the discriminated groups standing on their own feet from the very beginning, else it will be as it is now and such plans are pushed back endlessly with the excuse of "first wanting to completely eradicate racism", which history has shown is a bad idea, because it creates a long-term dependency, which is not, I asssume, the true, original intent of the people wanting to help those groups. In other words, if you already treat them like "children" of society, then at least take responsibility to the very end and make sure you help them grow into "adults" of society. I can honestly say that I admire people who actually do that, as it's one of the greatest contributions to society one can possibly make and it's definitly not an easy thing to do. However I have no sympathy at all for those who only seem to care about the immidiete symptoms of discrimination and stroke their own egos (i.e. "virtue signaling") for taking care of that without adressing the root cause, i.e. the people generally known as "Social Justice Warriors". im sorry if you think the very idea of Social Justice[ if upu look up its real dfernintion] and not the deferntion them sort f people as the right an dthe fake left then you are a fool imo The "warriors" in Social Justice Warriors clearly shows that this is a satirical term for people who are EXCESSIVELY obsessed with Social Justice. It's NOT a slight against "Social Justice" in itself. Eh...but like I said earlier, honestly who cares? Minorities aren't dumb by default, they won't be brainwashed by "SJWs" because everyone has their own ego. The only reason for them to agree with these "SJWs" is because they don't view them as a threat, and feel like they are justly represented. The things you mentioned that these "SJW" should be faulted for aren't actually harmful, they might not be right but they are things you can let go of. Social justice is originally an actually noble concept, even if it has been twisted or manipulated I can't see how it would be worse still than the actual "oppressors". That's like in a fantasy anime world, if there was a kingdom ruled under tyranny, where people were unhappy and the poor suffered, the people who together formed a rebellion to overthrow the rulers did so using not so great methods and did horrible stuff themselves would still not be worse than the ruling party, because the scale of control, the reason for doing what they do are all completely different. The rebelling party was only started because something was initially wrong right? In the same sense, these SJWs, who are white but hold a disdain for other groups of white people, like Stripesu would absolutely not if there wasn't an initial valid reason. Because who wants to hate people from their own race/gender/ethnicity/etc if there wasn't a valid reason for it that forced them to look past their ego? Maybe some parts of my analogy was terrible, I'm not great at that stuff, just had to think of something relatable to get my point across. Don't overthink it, just the core similarity about the two situations is what I'm talking about. If it was only about discrimination itself it would be fine, but the discriminated groups are often isolated by only interactiving among themselves and tend not to be in good shape economically. For example, the whole arguments involving "racial inequality" keep the focus of the discussions on race and how people should feel guilt and shame or pride just for having a certain skin color. That will never fix the problems of isolation and economic low for black people, simply because they are treated like some "spcial case that requires special care" instead of being treated individually as a human being. DateYutaka said: Grey-Zone said: DateYutaka said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: Definitely, those kind of people don't really help all too much, SJWs can be frustrating, but essentially what I don't understand is why you are more frustrated by those harmless people who just want to stroke their own ego compared to people who are effectively oppressing minorities also just to stroke their ego, except in this case it's scarier and shadier, because it involves domination and coming out on top, a more violent and regressive kind of behavior.zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Newhopes said: How would she/he be a racist if they're white themselves? They're being overly critical and angsty, not racist. They're far from insane, on the other end of the spectrum, they're angry and don't know what to do about it because of their feelings of empathy. Stripesu said: zealith7 said: Stripesu said: The whole thing about villainifying white males is what got a lot of them this whiny and uncomfortable in the first place. Using generalizations to fight generalizations won't ever work out especially if the opposing group or so to speak in this scenario is extremely powerful.zealith7 said: A lot of you really are beyond help. As a human, as soon as you think about yourself as being a part of a certain group of people, you get the urge to constantly defend them and be biased, which limits your ability to think objectively and fairly and only look at small scale victories rather than universal. Likewise, with any of these pointless groups (race is obviously included as a group, although a social construct, it's very real) you also have to establish an enemy or outsider group, as the binding force that really brings your community together since it's fueled by a lack of understanding and fear of the unknown. Curiosity, fear, disdain till it evolves to hatred, and like with how you might have the urge to defend your own people, you have the urge to attack others. This whole "Nazi's are bad? B-but ANTIFA" thing is wrong because that's fundamentally the wrong approach to take to the conversation, if you did your own research or thought about it both groups are essentially different, not two sides of the same coin at all. The fact that there are these supremacists and that they have an extremely flawed way of thinking, and the fact that they feel safe coming out in rallies publicly is something to be WORRIED about, as a human being, because anyone that confident in their views and beliefs and lacking any kind of empathy can't be convinced otherwise easily, and is regressive for us as society in general. I know some of you who read this may subconsciously get defensive or offended to a small degree although I haven't flamed or ridiculed anyone or any group in particular, or taken "sides", and have just expressed some worried thoughts. In my opinion, as a human, it is your duty to fight that discomfort, think about what you don't know, learn more, contemplate what's right and wrong by yourself and never reach a final answer. The only way to elevate above these stupid trivial namecalling and hatred that's been going about since the beginning of humanity, in my opinion, is to make your empathy your ego and set love as your underlying objective about every action you take, not so much literally, but if you get what I mean you'll get it, otherwise you won't. And with that I'll end this cheesy but honest rant of mine and I hope you all have a great day. EDIT: I'm sure not a lot of people will get what I'm saying, but as long as you read what I have to say and have that in your memory, and if it made you question your beliefs about absolutely anything whether "you're left" or "you're right", I consider it a success. Youre free to disagree, as long as there's thought before disapproval. c u Fact of the matter is I don't think people who want to harm or genocide other peoples existence based on their color, orientation, background should be breathing air. The white privilege in this thread is rampant. Not that I am suprised. I understand in what perspective you're looking at. Trust me I do. But there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who thinks they can terrorize and oppress people into submission of these basic human right views. Lets just say. It's no shock that white males were the absolute majority at that march. And it says something. Know your privilege. Thanks for actually typing a coherent statement. The only way to the effectively change someone in this case would be to make them think for themselves, instead of pointing fingers at them. That rarely works out in a one to one mother to son relationship, so why would it here, among absolute strangers, hurting their ego when you have absolutely no power or control over them? I don't want to rant about everything else currently being talked about in this thread ideally, so I'm just going to cut it short and say that you have to see the people you feel so strongly against as people and find an empathetic way of telling them why they're wrong. As a person of white skin. When I hear statements towards "white people". I know they aren't talking about me. Basically what you're saying is that social media presented these "white males" with their shit and history, they got upset about things like "the history behind their confederate flags" or "things the main stream media doesn't cover such as cops beating and shooting black people". And they got uncomfortable. Sorry buddy but if you feel the need to whine and cry because YOU personally feel victimized over your privileged life style, I don't feel bad. These are also mostly grown ass men. Which makes it worse. And this is a example of the insane far left, nothing more than big bundles of hateful racists. Racism is subjugating a "group" of people based on superficial unimportant and false BS, basically. She isn't really doing that. Fuck I really didn't want to start going off on my tangents It's incredibly patronizing. It's implying that the targets of discrimination need a "shield" against those evil people that are discriminating against them. It's basically treating the discriminated groups as helpless children. It's no different from conceding the argument to racists that the discriminated groups are "below" the oppressors. Basically, it's an ideological battle between two groups who think themselves as superior compared to the discriminated group about who gets to decide the treatment of the discriminated group with the two choices being them either becoming second-class humans, or them entering in a relationship similar to drug seller and drug addict. In a way the "defenders of the oppressed" are worse than the actual oppressors. This pseudo-logic is a step above what the others have done. You've attempted thought. But the issue was, you attempted it with the intention of reaching the conclusion that the defenders of oppressors are worse than...the oppressors themselves(?) in the first place, which is why it ended up so flawed. Of course one group has an advantage in society over the other, if you're looking race wise, so it isn't a battle of equals. It is about population, political strength and influence, education and wealth, objective things, that YOU as a person should not feel bad about, but that still exist. Obviously standing up for those minorities can be done wrong, but as I said earlier in another message, it's approached with the intent of caring. You won't see a black or Mexican person feeling bad or angry about some feminists who stand up for them. That doesn't make sense. People who don't stand in the position of the oppressed can't say that the oppressed aren't being oppressed. The people defending the oppressed (just think about that statement, unless it's a flat out lie there's no WAY it's a negative thing) do so not for any personal gain. The oppressors, meanwhile, are and always will be the worst thing in a situation literally revolving around oppression. I tried my best to get my point through, and at this point any argument anyone has for me can be debunked from one of my earlier posts, honestly. Oh, but I don't mean that helping discriminated groups in itself is a bad thing. But the process HAS TO include concrete plans for helping the discriminated groups standing on their own feet from the very beginning, else it will be as it is now and such plans are pushed back endlessly with the excuse of "first wanting to completely eradicate racism", which history has shown is a bad idea, because it creates a long-term dependency, which is not, I asssume, the true, original intent of the people wanting to help those groups. In other words, if you already treat them like "children" of society, then at least take responsibility to the very end and make sure you help them grow into "adults" of society. I can honestly say that I admire people who actually do that, as it's one of the greatest contributions to society one can possibly make and it's definitly not an easy thing to do. However I have no sympathy at all for those who only seem to care about the immidiete symptoms of discrimination and stroke their own egos (i.e. "virtue signaling") for taking care of that without adressing the root cause, i.e. the people generally known as "Social Justice Warriors". Yes, you don't have to view one group being perfect and the other being horrible, it's okay to criticize both, and I feel like in this situation I couldn't care less what people like SJWs do because while they might be insufferable it initially stems from good intent and sensitivity, and I know that SJWs don't have a frightening amount of power, influence, or truly violent or regressive visions for the future. You're free to criticize them, but you should also acknowledge the other end of the spectrum, the reason this thread was started, and criticize that more than the pro left. Not because of which side you support but because of which is more destructive and harmful. The reason why I find SJWs most problematic out of all is because they essentially hijacked the "help the discriminated groups"-camp and any kind of reasonable disagreements with them is often met with accusations of some "-ism" because they aren't thinking about long-term solutions, but rather short-term gratification of caused by the delusion of "having done something good", all based on some ambiguous moral codex. So admiting that they are wrong would make them losing this "hero-like" feeling, i.e. it causes cognitive dissonance. If it was only up to that they could just be ignored, but the SJW's biggest "sin" is implanting the beliefs into the discriminated groups that they are their "heroes in shining armor" who they should rely on to protect them. It's only natural that the SJWs would say that, because the feeling of "being a hero" is what primarily motivates them to do all that in the first place. But as I just explained, it should be the opposite, i.e. the discriminated groups should become independent as individuals and not need to rely on others like that. That's what makes SJWs so troublesome to deal with, because to get them out of the way you have to deny their delusional "calling", which will most definitly lead to unreasonable reactions, because no one likes experiencing cogntivite dissonance. DateYutaka said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Grey-Zone said: zealith7 said: Newhopes said: How would she/he be a racist if they're white themselves? They're being overly critical and angsty, not racist. They're far from insane, on the other end of the spectrum, they're angry and don't know what to do about it because of their feelings of empathy. Stripesu said: zealith7 said: Stripesu said: The whole thing about villainifying white males is what got a lot of them this whiny and uncomfortable in the first place. Using generalizations to fight generalizations won't ever work out especially if the opposing group or so to speak in this scenario is extremely powerful.zealith7 said: A lot of you really are beyond help. As a human, as soon as you think about yourself as being a part of a certain group of people, you get the urge to constantly defend them and be biased, which limits your ability to think objectively and fairly and only look at small scale victories rather than universal. Likewise, with any of these pointless groups (race is obviously included as a group, although a social construct, it's very real) you also have to establish an enemy or outsider group, as the binding force that really brings your community together since it's fueled by a lack of understanding and fear of the unknown. Curiosity, fear, disdain till it evolves to hatred, and like with how you might have the urge to defend your own people, you have the urge to attack others. This whole "Nazi's are bad? B-but ANTIFA" thing is wrong because that's fundamentally the wrong approach to take to the conversation, if you did your own research or thought about it both groups are essentially different, not two sides of the same coin at all. The fact that there are these supremacists and that they have an extremely flawed way of thinking, and the fact that they feel safe coming out in rallies publicly is something to be WORRIED about, as a human being, because anyone that confident in their views and beliefs and lacking any kind of empathy can't be convinced otherwise easily, and is regressive for us as society in general. I know some of you who read this may subconsciously get defensive or offended to a small degree although I haven't flamed or ridiculed anyone or any group in particular, or taken "sides", and have just expressed some worried thoughts. In my opinion, as a human, it is your duty to fight that discomfort, think about what you don't know, learn more, contemplate what's right and wrong by yourself and never reach a final answer. The only way to elevate above these stupid trivial namecalling and hatred that's been going about since the beginning of humanity, in my opinion, is to make your empathy your ego and set love as your underlying objective about every action you take, not so much literally, but if you get what I mean you'll get it, otherwise you won't. And with that I'll end this cheesy but honest rant of mine and I hope you all have a great day. EDIT: I'm sure not a lot of people will get what I'm saying, but as long as you read what I have to say and have that in your memory, and if it made you question your beliefs about absolutely anything whether "you're left" or "you're right", I consider it a success. Youre free to disagree, as long as there's thought before disapproval. c u Fact of the matter is I don't think people who want to harm or genocide other peoples existence based on their color, orientation, background should be breathing air. The white privilege in this thread is rampant. Not that I am suprised. I understand in what perspective you're looking at. Trust me I do. But there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who thinks they can terrorize and oppress people into submission of these basic human right views. Lets just say. It's no shock that white males were the absolute majority at that march. And it says something. Know your privilege. Thanks for actually typing a coherent statement. The only way to the effectively change someone in this case would be to make them think for themselves, instead of pointing fingers at them. That rarely works out in a one to one mother to son relationship, so why would it here, among absolute strangers, hurting their ego when you have absolutely no power or control over them? I don't want to rant about everything else currently being talked about in this thread ideally, so I'm just going to cut it short and say that you have to see the people you feel so strongly against as people and find an empathetic way of telling them why they're wrong. As a person of white skin. When I hear statements towards "white people". I know they aren't talking about me. Basically what you're saying is that social media presented these "white males" with their shit and history, they got upset about things like "the history behind their confederate flags" or "things the main stream media doesn't cover such as cops beating and shooting black people". And they got uncomfortable. Sorry buddy but if you feel the need to whine and cry because YOU personally feel victimized over your privileged life style, I don't feel bad. These are also mostly grown ass men. Which makes it worse. And this is a example of the insane far left, nothing more than big bundles of hateful racists. Racism is subjugating a "group" of people based on superficial unimportant and false BS, basically. She isn't really doing that. Fuck I really didn't want to start going off on my tangents It's incredibly patronizing. It's implying that the targets of discrimination need a "shield" against those evil people that are discriminating against them. It's basically treating the discriminated groups as helpless children. It's no different from conceding the argument to racists that the discriminated groups are "below" the oppressors. Basically, it's an ideological battle between two groups who think themselves as superior compared to the discriminated group about who gets to decide the treatment of the discriminated group with the two choices being them either becoming second-class humans, or them entering in a relationship similar to drug seller and drug addict. In a way the "defenders of the oppressed" are worse than the actual oppressors. This pseudo-logic is a step above what the others have done. You've attempted thought. But the issue was, you attempted it with the intention of reaching the conclusion that the defenders of oppressors are worse than...the oppressors themselves(?) in the first place, which is why it ended up so flawed. Of course one group has an advantage in society over the other, if you're looking race wise, so it isn't a battle of equals. It is about population, political strength and influence, education and wealth, objective things, that YOU as a person should not feel bad about, but that still exist. Obviously standing up for those minorities can be done wrong, but as I said earlier in another message, it's approached with the intent of caring. You won't see a black or Mexican person feeling bad or angry about some feminists who stand up for them. That doesn't make sense. People who don't stand in the position of the oppressed can't say that the oppressed aren't being oppressed. The people defending the oppressed (just think about that statement, unless it's a flat out lie there's no WAY it's a negative thing) do so not for any personal gain. The oppressors, meanwhile, are and always will be the worst thing in a situation literally revolving around oppression. I tried my best to get my point through, and at this point any argument anyone has for me can be debunked from one of my earlier posts, honestly. Oh, but I don't mean that helping discriminated groups in itself is a bad thing. But the process HAS TO include concrete plans for helping the discriminated groups standing on their own feet from the very beginning, else it will be as it is now and such plans are pushed back endlessly with the excuse of "first wanting to completely eradicate racism", which history has shown is a bad idea, because it creates a long-term dependency, which is not, I asssume, the true, original intent of the people wanting to help those groups. In other words, if you already treat them like "children" of society, then at least take responsibility to the very end and make sure you help them grow into "adults" of society. I can honestly say that I admire people who actually do that, as it's one of the greatest contributions to society one can possibly make and it's definitly not an easy thing to do. However I have no sympathy at all for those who only seem to care about the immidiete symptoms of discrimination and stroke their own egos (i.e. "virtue signaling") for taking care of that without adressing the root cause, i.e. the people generally known as "Social Justice Warriors". im sorry if you think the very idea of Social Justice[ if upu look up its real dfernintion] and not the deferntion them sort f people as the right an dthe fake left then you are a fool imo The "warriors" in Social Justice Warriors clearly shows that this is a satirical term for people who are EXCESSIVELY obsessed with Social Justice. It's NOT a slight against "Social Justice" in itself. im sorry what was that huge thing with sargon wanting to ban Social Justice study in higher education im sorry i though the fake left/ new right like sargon are anti censorship banning any thing is cenorship imo There is a difference between Social Justice as a concept in general (usually based on one's own individual beliefs, for better or worse) and Social Justice that is "taught" to people with a certain set of "standards" that condemns any kind of "wrongthink" or "diverging views" and opposes critical thinking in general. If you want higher education that deals with moral standards - that exists under the term "ethics". DateYutaka said: Grey-Zone said: zodd0 said: omfgplzstop said: White privilege is a racist idea. You are saying that having a certain skin color makes you complicit with and/or a beneficiary of racism. No, unlike you I actually know what white privilege is. Once again, we can't really have a discussion about it until you have read up on it and understand what it is. And we both know that won't happen. "White privilege" is a meaningless term, that is politically and ideologically motivated and that did not lead to a constructive discussion, ever. In the first place the causality of the concept has never been proven, i.e. it's as unscientific as it gets. It's just as fallacious a concept as the whole "average of IQ is lower for blacks than whites because they are dumber" bullshit from the racist people or the "70 cents per dollar gender gap" delusion. as tradnation lefteit i aks my se this every day what the fuck as happened ot the left in the west yes social libertarianism is one of the most old fashion leftist ideals hwnce whhu i call people like sargon fake left there as fare form social libertarian as possiable thye aspose more right wing views than social libertarian ones Why do you always have to bring up Sargon of Akkad? While I agree with SOME of the things he says, I am not him and I don't understand why you bring him up all the time. hes the most promnate voice on the fake left while all the rightes hes chums ith miuns uzalu amit there right wing alot of the fake left do not and most of them claim ot be social libertarian/cultrual libertarian withc there not since there all statist down ot key Maybe you should instead just stop obsessing about the whole "left" and "right" thing. People interpret it however it's convenient for them anyway. I said what was needed to be said already. Like literally everything. Either people didn't read, understand or just chose to ignore what I wrote, I assume. And I don't think I can bother arguing again since no one really wants to accept the fact that they could be wrong at all. Yeah, very informative documentary for sure. |
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