Sword Art Online II Episode 9 Discussion

Takuan_Soho said:


A further example of how hatred makes people stupid.

SAO has sold over 2 million volumes, any "aspiring writer" would be well advised to pay attention to how this story was written to learn why.

Then again that is why there is so much hatred out there towards this work. The writer initially was just another "aspiring writer", but he published his works online and got millions of people to read them, the "aspiring writers" here can only get the fellow "aspiring writers" to read their drivel. Must hurt.

And while the point of writing isn't necessarily sales, my guess would be none of the haters are going to ever be appreciated for their "art" as well. Nothing more pathetic then a whipped cur whining about success.

Oh, and yes, he does write better than you.

Botato said:
It amazes me how the "flaws" of SAO II all start and stop at "omg girl fell in love with Kirito this is harem shit."
Yeah, because making a girl fall in love with the main character (which is totally reasonable in most cases) in a romance show makes an otherwise fine anime a piece of shit.

Quirkiness101 said:
That's not entirely fair. You could make equally solid complaints about the dialogue and plot choices. I agree that what you mentioned makes up the bulk of complaints, but there are definitely others.

Botato said:
It amazes me how the "flaws" of SAO II all start and stop at "omg girl fell in love with Kirito this is harem shit."
Yeah, because making a girl fall in love with the main character (which is totally reasonable in most cases) in a romance show makes an otherwise fine anime a piece of shit.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
Leaving aside whether the show has other problems, if a show has problems, why would the choice of genre excuse them? If someone consistently thought that romance shows are bad, wouldn't it make sense for them to criticize SAO II for it too?

I mean, nobody is forcing the author to write romance. He could use other genres if he wanted to.

Botato said:
Then that person shouldn't watch romance.

Botato said:
By your logic, no writer should ever write romance if I think romance is bad.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
Completely irrelevant to whether the show is bad. Maybe he is watching for parody, reviewing, or to check out the general level of shows nowadays.

No. By my logic, it would be consistent for you to think that writers should avoid romance if you think romance is bad.

Or what? Do you want people to write shows you think are bad, other than for parody? That makes sense.

Theodoricos said:


Spoiler-tagged synopsis details for Sinon from MAL:


You were sayin'? :P

Theodoricos said:


Kidnapped, restrained, defeated and dying - it's all the same. The point is that she needs her man to come save her. Did you watch the ending of the last episode?

Theodoricos said:


Sure, there's an in-lore explanation for it, but that's just the excuse to have Kirito STILL be as powerful as fuck regardless of the game he's in. I mean - come on - apparently, he's the ONLY one who had previous experience with SAO or other games similar to it? He's the ONLY one who could defeat that game with the cowboy and win the prize money? The only one to really make use of a lightsaber? And also, apparently, he's also the ONLY one who can ride a motorcycle? "Oh, Kirito-kun, you're amazing! No one is ever able to ride these!" (And he's also the only one who played racing games extensively enough to be able to drive one, apparently. His own words.)

Theodoricos said:


I think you're the one who needs to rewatch the anime. See episode three's ending again, please.

Reyxe said:
Wut, again. Sugou wasn't friendzoned, Asuna hated him. Also, the guy is not friendzoned, he's just too pushy due to jealousy.

Theodoricos said:


Already in first point. ^^

Theodoricos said:
Tell me again how my arguments are bullshit? Did I touch a nerve there?

Theodoricos said:


I already said so at the end of my post. It's because it never fails to amuse me - it's just so bad that it's good. My friends and I have even thought of several ideas for SAO drinking games. Each time Kirito succeeds at something completely on his own, for example, or each time a "strong" girl is chickified and in need of his help.

ssjokg said:
Same complaints all over again as if SAO is the most deep and psychological anime out there and had to follow certain qualities.
At this point it is just complaining for the sake of it.

Meanwhile series like Persona 4 dont even get 1/10 of the shit SAO takes.Too much swag there for criticism to work.

ssjokg said:
Same complaints all over again as if SAO is the most deep and psychological anime out there and had to follow certain qualities.
At this point it is just complaining for the sake of it.

Meanwhile series like Persona 4 dont even get 1/10 of the shit SAO takes.Too much swag there for criticism to work.

Botato said:
That's retarded.

You don't complain about water being water.
You don't complain about romance being romance.
And you most certainly should not expect writers to not write romance stories just because you think they are bad.

It doesn't matter if it's consistent or not, it is still retarded. You are going into a show that has romance, you shouldn't complain about it. If, for example, a certain show was not supposed to be a comedy, yet has nothing but jokes and silly moments all the time, then complaining about comedy would be valid.

Botato said:
And you most certainly should not expect writers to not write romance stories just because you think they are bad.

hyperknees91 said:


Persona 4 has game fans mainly. It wasn't a great anime by any stretch, but it was certainly leagues above SAO.

Though they both have a problem of having absolutely terrible villains. Unless your talking about the golden anime, in which case yeah thats just fanservice dribble so it's hardly worth mentioning in the first place.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
So if you write a bad show on purpose, it becomes immune to criticism. Err... okay, suit yourself, but don't expect me to follow that arbitrary rule.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
This is probably why some people give 10s to shows with the reasoning, "It's bad, but it's a shounen show, so it matched expectations." ...Yeah, makes sense. Let's give bad shows a quota for free top ratings.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
The water comparison is bad because nature isn't a person. Otherwise, it would make perfect sense to complain about the properties of water (relative to their current location) if your house got obliterated by a flood.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
Expect in what sense? Thinking that it's likely? No. Thinking that it would be better? Sure.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
You should want more things that are good and fewer things that are bad.

Reyxe said:
@TheDeeds you're like those gamers "THERE'S NOTHING BETTER THAN OLD GAMES, NEW GAMES SUCKS, YOU SUCK, EVERYTHING SUCKS, OLD GAMES FTW"... cmon, pls.

Reyxe said:
You're to serious as if this was rocket science or something, it's anime, it's made for enjoyment and nobody is going to give you a prize for rating "objectivily".

TheDeedsOfMen said:
I don't get where you get the nostalgia factor from. Since when have I been easy on old things?

If the enjoyment I get from a show is laughing at it, I'm going to be honest about it.

Besides, I think the people with different criteria for shows that are intentionally bad are the ones who are making things needlessly complicated.

If a show is bad, you call it bad.
If a show is good, you call it good.

Not rocket science.

ssjokg said:
No I am talking about the protagonist who is miles above Kirito in perfection(same from all party members after their shadow loses), the harem, and it basically has everything SAO is hated for except that this time it is a SMT game adaptation.I havent seen Golden.
Having mostly game fans isnt an excuse.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
I don't get where you get the nostalgia factor from. Since when have I been easy on old things?

TheDeedsOfMen said:
If the enjoyment I get from a show is laughing at it, I'm going to be honest about it.

Besides, I think the people with different criteria for shows that are intentionally bad are the ones who are making things needlessly complicated.

If a show is bad, you call it bad.
If a show is good, you call it good.

Not rocket science.

Botato said:
Do you even understand what I am saying?
Your logic is retarded because it is ignorant. What you're saying is it is perfectly fine to claim that Series A is shit because it is listed as romance, without actually watching it, since you know, romance is bad apparently. And then when you watch it, you proceed to complain about what it is supposed to be. You expect to have romance in it, you don't complain that it has romance. Whether the romance in it is bad or good is a different story, that's what one should be discussing.

Saying something is bad simply because it is romance/shounen/whatever is close minded and stupid.

Botato said:
The fuck are you talking about?
You don't complain about water simply because it is water. But you can complain about water flooding your house and wrecking it. Two entirely different things.

Botato said:
In a no one gives a crap about a random dude's preferences in entertainment media sense. There are many different genres to suit everyone.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
But I never said that you should think romance is categorically bad before watching. Every show should stand on its own. You're the one who is not judging a show as a standalone work if you use "but it's romance" as an excuse to ignore flaws.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
I also never said shounen is bad simply because it's shounen. Read what I wrote more carefully.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
But the water wrecked your house because it has certain physical and chemical properties. If your house had faced a gust of air, the situation would be different. Just like romance is often bad because of its properties.

It's not that complicated, seriously.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
Well, I was never talking about that, so what was the problem?

Reyxe said:
If someone enjoyed a series rated 1/5, he did and that's it, I don't feel like bashing the show just cause I hated it, if someone asks me "did you like SAO?" then I would say yea and the reasons I liked it and that's it, just cause my taste its different, doesn't mean it's a bad show.

ssjokg said:
Kirito's game experience(his perfection) is treated like a joke as well.

And where does the "too seriously" come from?From Kirito's random talks about VR vs real world? That's not GitS stuff, and it isnt even for the reader to think about it but for the chars themselves, there is no real message there.

You know very well that all problems would be solved even if he wasnt OP,just like in most shounen series, only difference is that we wouldnt need "training eps" for that to happen.Other series just delay the inevitable,SAO ends it quickly.

P4's chars are always together and developing their bonds goes 100% along with the plot.
In SAO it is Kirito and the arc's secondary MC.

TheDeedsOfMen said:


Then you misunderstood what that means. I wrote that I've seen enough anime to start getting tired of the same tropes. Old age of a show was never a factor.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
Err, so what's the problem then? I think some shows are bad, and I have reasons to think so. Or do you think only positive comments should be allowed?

ssjokg said:
Kirito's game experience(his perfection) is treated like a joke as well.

And where does the "too seriously" come from?From Kirito's random talks about VR vs real world? That's not GitS stuff, and it isnt even for the reader to think about it but for the chars themselves, there is no real message there.

You know very well that all problems would be solved even if he wasnt OP,just like in most shounen series, only difference is that we wouldnt need "training eps" for that to happen.Other series just delay the inevitable,SAO ends it quickly.

P4's chars are always together and developing their bonds goes 100% along with the plot.
In SAO it is Kirito and the arc's secondary MC.

P4's chars are always together and developing their bonds goes 100% along with the plot.
In SAO it is Kirito and the arc's secondary MC.

Botato said:
That's what you implied and how your logic works. "Romance is always bad so it's okay to complain about it in romance shows" is basically what you said, so it doesn't really matter whether you watch it or not if you think all romance is bad simply because it is romance. You are claiming that romance itself is a flaw, which it certainly isn't.

And the original post I made I was talking about people complaining simply because romance exists, not whether it is bad or not.

Are we even on the same page?

I am saying that water itself isn't inherently bad. Same thing with romance. I am talking about the simple fact that these things exist.

Now if water destroyed your house, that water is bad. If the romance was flawed, then it is bad. But saying they are bad for no reason or simply generalizing that ALL is bad for no reason is what one shouldn't do.

Botato said:
That's the impression I got from reading it.

Botato said:
What you said: Writers shouldn't write romance because it is bad.
What I said: You should NOT expect them to agree with you.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
Okay, I'll try to explain better.

Even if you can't call a romance show categorically bad before watching, you can still say that romance shows tend to be bad based on your experience. And why do they tend to be bad? It's linked to the nature of romance, much like water acting the way it does is linked to the nature of water. I'm saying that it's hard to write intelligent things about something that tends to be an emotional response, often strongly based on the reproductive urge that exists in the genetic code. Therefore, you often get that person X falls for person Y for pretty superficial reasons. Can this happen in real life? Sure, but it doesn't necessarily make it interesting to read about.

Reyxe said:


Why are you even watching anime? if you find a shounen anime bad, then that means each shounen is bad because "your personal experience" says so? lawl.

Same with every single romance anime out there, PERSONALLY, Sukitte ii Na Yo is pure shit. Watched the anime and each time I think about it, I get goosebumps on how bad it was, yet I don't go on the internet "oh, this is shoujo, its probably shit" cause I've read some that are actually pretty good, along with romance and even Shonen.

If you are going to watch anime while thinking about how shit was the last one, then don't.

TheDeedsOfMen said:
Okay, I'll try to explain better.

Even if you can't call a romance show categorically bad before watching, you can still say that romance shows tend to be bad based on your experience. And why do they tend to be bad? It's linked to the nature of romance, much like water acting the way it does is linked to the nature of water. I'm saying that it's hard to write intelligent things about something that tends to be an emotional response, often strongly based on the reproductive urge that exists in the genetic code. Therefore, you often get that person X falls for person Y for pretty superficial reasons. Can this happen in real life? Sure, but it doesn't necessarily make it interesting to read about.

hyperknees91 said:


Not really, I've never gotten the vibe that it was treated as a joke. Not in the same fashion the other characters I've listed are. They might comment about it every once in awhile, but that's hardly the same thing.

Being non op would certainly help, as it would make it seem like Kirito had to put in genuine effort to overcome his struggles rather than having natural in born talent. Yes training arcs are the typical fashion in shounen manga, but they don't have to be. Berserk, Fate/Stay Night, Battle Royale have no training arcs and they work pretty well (I know battle royale is a seinen, but it's also a fellow survival story). Regardless, build up and character development are usually given in them is why. Both are important story telling devices, SAO skips out on both of these which makes all the conflicts seem trite in comparison.

The message has nothing to do with the tone. Everything that happens in SAO is basically done in a serious fashion (albeit childish). It takes itself too seriously because of how melodramatic it tries to make everything. Also being overly pretentious is one of its traits as well yes. And indeed, the author is trying to deliver a message, if that wasn't the intent he would never express it as such. He just is so simple minded with his message that it comes off as ignorant.



And there you go, that's part of the problem. Why introduce characters if your just going to mostly throw them away in the following arc? It's far too Kirito focus, a character who isn't even very interesting in the first place. Why even keep Kirito while your at it? Why not just start a new story with two new characters per arc if that was the approach the author was going to go for.

His friends always comment on his skills and ways of fighting sometimes in a similar way some of the bashing we have seen in threads.They also commented on his relationship with others although just barely.You cant callone a joke and the other dismiss it as "not the same fashion".

FSN is a bad example since
.
And that's really subjective some people dont need them to feel any tension.You can call them newbies or 16 years old teenagers(not saying you did) but as we have seen in the threads some,not all of course, feel that the chars go through trouble.

Do you mean that killing people through means of entertainment shouldnt be treated too seriously?"Melodramatic" is a word everyone uses lately in every case of drama they dont like.
The only message he tries to deliver is he own personal view on VR and its effects on real life.There is no real basis for most of it,so he can write almost anything he likes, but that doesnt make it pretentious especially when Reki himself doesnt make it a big deal himself outside of his work.

Botato said:
Well, okay. That's not what I was originally talking about though.

Also "intelligent" isn't indicative of quality or of whether you will like the show or not. Not always anyway.

Quirkiness101 said:
Damn DeedsofMen, you're even a harder ass grader than me. No 9s and only one 10 after 64 series :S

Edit: Considering you rated NGNL and SAO as 1s I can't imagine what would happen if you watched an actual dogshit anime (like Pupa)

Btw, anyone have any idea when crunchyroll will have subs up for the new episode?

Reyxe said:


42 minutes from now. Usually it gets end subbed first, you would need 10 minutes more if you see spanish subbed.

Quirkiness101 said:
Damn DeedsofMen, you're even a harder ass grader than me. No 9s and only one 10 after 64 series :S

Edit: Considering you rated NGNL and SAO as 1s I can't imagine what would happen if you watched an actual dogshit anime (like Pupa)

TheDeedsOfMen said:
I suppose I can't go into negatives, so I could rework the ratings. Cunning plan to give SAO the respectable 3/10?

Speaking of NGNL, that's one show I think is worse than SAO, actually.

Snow_Dust said:
This episode was kinda boring most of the time. But I liked it in overall.
And why Sinon thinks that she's the only one who has dark and troubled past and talks with Kirito angrily like that. She keeps telling him that she "hates him" and that "he doesn't know anything about her", when she doesn't really know shit about him either. Kinda thoughtless. But I still can understand both of them.

Reyxe said:
@TheDeeds you're like those gamers "THERE'S NOTHING BETTER THAN OLD GAMES, NEW GAMES SUCKS, YOU SUCK, EVERYTHING SUCKS, OLD GAMES FTW"... cmon, pls.

You're to serious as if this was rocket science or something, it's anime, it's made for enjoyment and nobody is going to give you a prize for rating "objectivily".