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Jan 14, 2017 6:39 AM

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What I need for max the skills of the Servants I want:
Jack, Saber ALter, Lancelot Saber, Mordred, Kuro, Enkidu, Rider Kintoki, Loli Jalter,Santa Alter, AssSensei, Shiki, Fran, Marth Ruler and Mashu.




http://fgosimulator.webcrow.jp/
Jan 14, 2017 8:39 AM

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Oct 2015
2107
^ I feel you, friend. The cubes can be bought in the shop, if I recall well.
Since I just finished Pluribus Unum, I can't access the chains needed for my Enkidu yet since apparently we get this item at Babylon :/ At least, I finally reached Camelot ! I hope it's not as difficult as I heard it was.
Jan 14, 2017 9:17 AM
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468
Nyarlathothep said:
^ I feel you, friend. The cubes can be bought in the shop, if I recall well.
Since I just finished Pluribus Unum, I can't access the chains needed for my Enkidu yet since apparently we get this item at Babylon :/ At least, I finally reached Camelot ! I hope it's not as difficult as I heard it was.

Check the missions in the wiki beforehand to make sure you grab the right support and party, then you'll probably do fine.
Jan 14, 2017 9:20 AM

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15857
Genkii said:
kei78 said:
Dt complain
Roll for hassan-O, got Backstab by Stheno...

Heh, I spent 400quartz and got spooked by Sthenos, Carmilla and Kiritsugu. Then got Sanzou, Astofol, Beowulf and Rama. 3 spooked Assassins. That when I knew to stop. King Hassan has deemed me unworthy.

Jan 14, 2017 9:48 AM

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Genkii said:
kei78 said:
@Genkii

Do Brower + Brolin work well with Xuanzang if spam NP with black grail CE?


Three test runs each with different CE; All done in Level 60 Assassin daily:

[Ascended Black Holy Grail]
NP damage = 295k on Carmilla
**Overall NP Generation = Fair
**Damage + Pressure = Moderate. Damage is good and can follow up with another if played right.

[Ascended Miyu]
First chance NP: 73k
Second chance NP: 130k (+Waver buff)
Third chance NP: 110k (+Merlin buff -Waver buff)

NP>A>A = 55% NP Generation.
A>Q>A = 75% NP Generation
**Overall NP Generation = Really good
**Damage + Pressure = Good. Can keep firing off NPs within 2-4 turns.

[Ascended Prisma Cosmos]
A>A>A = 70%. 90% in 2 turns (No skills used)
106% in 3 turns. (No skills used)
A>A>A = 106% to 200% with NP generation skill.
NP damage = 157k on Carmilla.
**Overall NP Generation = Amazing
**Damage + Pressuring = High. Your NP gauge charges insanely fast. Ready within 1-3 turns.

Notes:
*Wow I actually really like Prisma Cosmos on her, she just keeps getting so much charge along with team Art combo and her own AAA cards.
*There's potential to make her fire a sickening consecutive amount of NPs but I don't think Waver and/or Merlin are the teammates to do it. Or maybe they are and I didn't utilize them correctly.
*She cannot one-shot Carmilla without Waver or Merlin's attack buffs. (NP level 2)

Conclusion:
It's alright, nothing TOO amazing. There's better alternatives imo. If her Overcharge simply increased her damage instead then I'd strongly recommend this for boss fighting. If her NP card was an Art she'd be stupidly good.
thx for the analysis
bruh
Jan 14, 2017 10:33 AM

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2107
Frostbite_ said:
Nyarlathothep said:
^ I feel you, friend. The cubes can be bought in the shop, if I recall well.
Since I just finished Pluribus Unum, I can't access the chains needed for my Enkidu yet since apparently we get this item at Babylon :/ At least, I finally reached Camelot ! I hope it's not as difficult as I heard it was.

Check the missions in the wiki beforehand to make sure you grab the right support and party, then you'll probably do fine.


Shanks for the advice :D I actually did check that before, but I began recently to be more strategic, since I just discoverred about class triangles. I was relying too much on my Lancer and Sabers without thinking much more about it xD
Jan 14, 2017 10:52 AM

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Nyarlathothep said:
Frostbite_ said:

Check the missions in the wiki beforehand to make sure you grab the right support and party, then you'll probably do fine.


Shanks for the advice :D I actually did check that before, but I began recently to be more strategic, since I just discoverred about class triangles. I was relying too much on my Lancer and Sabers without thinking much more about it xD

If you have a pretty good Archer and Herc, you'll be fine. Just make sure to see the enemy icons on the quests before attempting them and get an appropriate party.

A quick rant tho.
It truly says something about F/GO's difficulty when you start needing to learn the most fundamental rule in the game to continue winning at the last third portion of it.
Some of that is certainly due to the power creep in the game, for sure, but i remember only needing to think about team combinations, skills and exploiting pattern weakness in events, prior to Camelot. And even then, Raiko, Herc and support Archoria made 95% of the chapter laughably easy.
Jan 14, 2017 11:38 AM

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7489
ssjokg said:
What I need for max the skills of the Servants I want:
Jack, Saber ALter, Lancelot Saber, Mordred, Kuro, Enkidu, Rider Kintoki, Loli Jalter,Santa Alter, AssSensei, Shiki, Fran, Marth Ruler and Mashu.




http://fgosimulator.webcrow.jp/

I'm not insane enough to 10/10/10 every servant I like. Only the ones I really really love. You're better off with 6/6/6.
Jan 14, 2017 11:51 AM

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2107
astroprogs said:
Nyarlathothep said:


Shanks for the advice :D I actually did check that before, but I began recently to be more strategic, since I just discoverred about class triangles. I was relying too much on my Lancer and Sabers without thinking much more about it xD

If you have a pretty good Archer and Herc, you'll be fine. Just make sure to see the enemy icons on the quests before attempting them and get an appropriate party.

A quick rant tho.
It truly says something about F/GO's difficulty when you start needing to learn the most fundamental rule in the game to continue winning at the last third portion of it.
Some of that is certainly due to the power creep in the game, for sure, but i remember only needing to think about team combinations, skills and exploiting pattern weakness in events, prior to Camelot. And even then, Raiko, Herc and support Archoria made 95% of the chapter laughably easy.


Good Archer .. I borrow Archer Gilgamesh all the time to one of my friends, he must win so many friendship points because of me Haha By myself, I have Orion but I can't ascend her any more than 70 yet, so I rather use my Ko-Gil instead xD It's probably a dumb thing to do, but since I didn't manage to have his adult self, I kinda want to grail ascend him.
Yeah, noticed that too.

About your rant .. I think it says even more about the game when someone who sucks at videogames such as me manages to go that far Haha
I think they made it that easy to avoid players to quit out of frustration for not managing to continue, which is something I could totally do. Players must be enough frustrated by gacha, they wouldn't add that
Jan 14, 2017 1:40 PM
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Nyarlathothep said:
^ I feel you, friend. The cubes can be bought in the shop, if I recall well.
Since I just finished Pluribus Unum, I can't access the chains needed for my Enkidu yet since apparently we get this item at Babylon :/ At least, I finally reached Camelot ! I hope it's not as difficult as I heard it was.
Chains are in camelot.
Jan 14, 2017 2:29 PM

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Aug 2015
127
I just downloaded 2Face on Android for FGO, so I can manage 3 accounts now :D




Jan 14, 2017 9:58 PM

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15857
Nyarlathothep said:
astroprogs said:

If you have a pretty good Archer and Herc, you'll be fine. Just make sure to see the enemy icons on the quests before attempting them and get an appropriate party.

A quick rant tho.
It truly says something about F/GO's difficulty when you start needing to learn the most fundamental rule in the game to continue winning at the last third portion of it.
Some of that is certainly due to the power creep in the game, for sure, but i remember only needing to think about team combinations, skills and exploiting pattern weakness in events, prior to Camelot. And even then, Raiko, Herc and support Archoria made 95% of the chapter laughably easy.


Good Archer .. I borrow Archer Gilgamesh all the time to one of my friends, he must win so many friendship points because of me Haha By myself, I have Orion but I can't ascend her any more than 70 yet, so I rather use my Ko-Gil instead xD It's probably a dumb thing to do, but since I didn't manage to have his adult self, I kinda want to grail ascend him.
Yeah, noticed that too.

About your rant .. I think it says even more about the game when someone who sucks at videogames such as me manages to go that far Haha
I think they made it that easy to avoid players to quit out of frustration for not managing to continue, which is something I could totally do. Players must be enough frustrated by gacha, they wouldn't add that

The upcoming Dango event is the perfect opportunity for you to max Orion, then. She's a top-tier Archer, so she should be your highest priority for now as you'll really need her to finish fights in Camelot without them dragging too Mich.
Ko-Gil is one of the few 3*s who are worth Grail Ascending, so I'dsay go for it.

If you face any problem, don't hesitate to post tour Servants and we'll try to help you through it :D
Jan 15, 2017 12:01 AM

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2254
Même 5* ranking updated.

Jeanne will end under 5.0 by summer...
bruh
Jan 15, 2017 2:34 AM

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2107
^ I don't really see why people say Ruler is useless or even weak, I think she's a good Servant, she's among the ones I prefer borrowing as a Support. She can protect against enemies NP, that's so helpful

astroprogs said:
Nyarlathothep said:


Good Archer .. I borrow Archer Gilgamesh all the time to one of my friends, he must win so many friendship points because of me Haha By myself, I have Orion but I can't ascend her any more than 70 yet, so I rather use my Ko-Gil instead xD It's probably a dumb thing to do, but since I didn't manage to have his adult self, I kinda want to grail ascend him.
Yeah, noticed that too.

About your rant .. I think it says even more about the game when someone who sucks at videogames such as me manages to go that far Haha
I think they made it that easy to avoid players to quit out of frustration for not managing to continue, which is something I could totally do. Players must be enough frustrated by gacha, they wouldn't add that

The upcoming Dango event is the perfect opportunity for you to max Orion, then. She's a top-tier Archer, so she should be your highest priority for now as you'll really need her to finish fights in Camelot without them dragging too Mich.
Ko-Gil is one of the few 3*s who are worth Grail Ascending, so I'dsay go for it.

If you face any problem, don't hesitate to post tour Servants and we'll try to help you through it :D


Dango event? (Sounds like "Django" xD)What will that be about? :o I see. I actually had added her in my team with Ko-Gil to play Camelot, since there will probably be a lot of Sabers.
Well, when I checked on various places which 3* Servants were worth it, he wasn't among the most popular choices, which let me wonder. Imma do that then, I think he will be very useful.

Shanks a lot for your kindness :D
Jan 15, 2017 2:40 AM
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468
Nyarlathothep said:
^ I don't really see why people say Ruler is useless or even weak, I think she's a good Servant, she's among the ones I prefer borrowing as a Support. She can protect against enemies NP, that's so helpful

astroprogs said:

The upcoming Dango event is the perfect opportunity for you to max Orion, then. She's a top-tier Archer, so she should be your highest priority for now as you'll really need her to finish fights in Camelot without them dragging too Mich.
Ko-Gil is one of the few 3*s who are worth Grail Ascending, so I'dsay go for it.

If you face any problem, don't hesitate to post tour Servants and we'll try to help you through it :D


Dango event? (Sounds like "Django" xD)What will that be about? :o I see. I actually had added her in my team with Ko-Gil to play Camelot, since there will probably be a lot of Sabers.
Well, when I checked on various places which 3* Servants were worth it, he wasn't among the most popular choices, which let me wonder. Imma do that then, I think he will be very useful.

Shanks a lot for your kindness :D

I don't know what the event is about, but dango is a japanese sweet iirc and I think it's about Artemis, so I can think of a couple different meanings.
Jan 15, 2017 4:31 AM

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Nyarlathothep said:
^ I don't really see why people say Ruler is useless or even weak, I think she's a good Servant, she's among the ones I prefer borrowing as a Support. She can protect against enemies NP, that's so helpful



There are many ways to protect from NP these days which make her rather obsolete. 1 of her skills gives stars and the other 2 only works on servants plus its success rate isn't very high. That's not very useful. Why protect from NP when you can just kill the enemy before they do it? The best offense is the best defense. Compared to her Avenger counterpart, she's a joke.

Jan 15, 2017 4:49 AM

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Frostbite_ said:
I don't know what the event is about, but dango is a japanese sweet iirc and I think it's about Artemis, so I can think of a couple different meanings.


It seems yummy :3 What makes you think it'll be about her? Do you know when the event will be?
Jan 15, 2017 5:04 AM

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15857
It's a rerun event. The first run was the second event after the game launch. The first was the Nero festival, which we got a rerun of a while ago.
Orion (Artemis) is the main star of the event, where you'll get the story as to why the hell is the famouse manly man Orion is just so... busty, and you collect dangos, so you can get a good view of Artemis in a towel a pretty good CE from the shop.
The event starts 18/1 and lasts for a week.
It alse features the best CE of Rin in the game, and that's an objectively objective fact.

The best 3*s you can GA are Cu, Taiga, Ko-Gil, Euryale and Koutaru. The few that you'll get little value, relatively, from are Medusa, Medea and Proto-Cu. The rest are waste of grails, unless they're someone you just love, in that case it's the best waste ever.
astroprogsJan 15, 2017 5:13 AM
Jan 15, 2017 6:56 AM

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2107
^ I'm more interested in knowing why there is a cute little bear with her :3
If they make reruns of events, maybe it means they'll make a rerun of the Fate Zero event. There is an item I need that I apparently could only get in this event.
Anyway, that sounds interesting. It seems they often make events, maybe like once a month or so.

Great ! Already used a grail on Ko-Gil : Since it seems he's among the best, and I love him, I guess it was the best thing to do :D
Jan 15, 2017 7:37 AM

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15857
Nyarlathothep said:
^ I'm more interested in knowing why there is a cute little bear with her :3
If they make reruns of events, maybe it means they'll make a rerun of the Fate Zero event. There is an item I need that I apparently could only get in this event.
Anyway, that sounds interesting. It seems they often make events, maybe like once a month or so.

Great ! Already used a grail on Ko-Gil : Since it seems he's among the best, and I love him, I guess it was the best thing to do :D

The question should be: Why is there a half-naked girl with him (Orion)?
HE is the Servant you summon, not her lol


Collab events are huge, so the chance of them ever repeating is extremely slim. We could get new ones with new stories at some point, but i don't think they'll ever repeat a collab event they did before.

This is a good opportunity to reflect on all the past events. The other events that should get reruns and maybe storyline continuation at some point IMO are:

1. GUDAGUDA/Order AKA the best event ever, NOBU~, hopefully followed by the most anticipated "GUDAGUDA/Order II". Seeing how they didn't make Okita available in the last NY gacha hints that they could be getting ready for this one.

2. Saber Wars I, followed by Saber Wars II.

3. Valentine event AKA "Matthewgate", followed by the Valentine 2017 event.

4. Da Vinci and The 7 Counterfeit Heroic Spirits AKA Jeanne Alter's Bizarre, Sad And Kinda Heartwarming Adventure, followed by, hopefully, a continuation of one of the best relationships in the game.


5. Summer 2016 was a huge two-part event, so they'll most likely skip the rerun and skip directly into "Summer 2017" with maybe a few added requirements to get Assassin Scathach and a pre-event gacha for the 2016 Servants. We better have swimsuit Nero this time, ya hear me, DW?


All in all, 2017 seems to be a good year for F/GO, and that's without considering the new original events they must be planning to have.
Jan 15, 2017 8:52 AM
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468
astroprogs said:
Nyarlathothep said:
^ I'm more interested in knowing why there is a cute little bear with her :3
If they make reruns of events, maybe it means they'll make a rerun of the Fate Zero event. There is an item I need that I apparently could only get in this event.
Anyway, that sounds interesting. It seems they often make events, maybe like once a month or so.

Great ! Already used a grail on Ko-Gil : Since it seems he's among the best, and I love him, I guess it was the best thing to do :D

The question should be: Why is there a half-naked girl with him (Orion)?
HE is the Servant you summon, not her lol

Ah, young love. A crazy stalker goddess who is technically supposed to be a virgin forever and an insane hunter that murdered hundreds of animals on a whim.
(define "heroic" again?)
Jan 15, 2017 9:35 AM

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2107
astroprogs said:
Nyarlathothep said:
^ I'm more interested in knowing why there is a cute little bear with her :3
If they make reruns of events, maybe it means they'll make a rerun of the Fate Zero event. There is an item I need that I apparently could only get in this event.
Anyway, that sounds interesting. It seems they often make events, maybe like once a month or so.

Great ! Already used a grail on Ko-Gil : Since it seems he's among the best, and I love him, I guess it was the best thing to do :D

The question should be: Why is there a half-naked girl with him (Orion)?
HE is the Servant you summon, not her lol


Collab events are huge, so the chance of them ever repeating is extremely slim. We could get new ones with new stories at some point, but i don't think they'll ever repeat a collab event they did before.

This is a good opportunity to reflect on all the past events. The other events that should get reruns and maybe storyline continuation at some point IMO are:

1. GUDAGUDA/Order AKA the best event ever, NOBU~, hopefully followed by the most anticipated "GUDAGUDA/Order II". Seeing how they didn't make Okita available in the last NY gacha hints that they could be getting ready for this one.

2. Saber Wars I, followed by Saber Wars II.

3. Valentine event AKA "Matthewgate", followed by the Valentine 2017 event.

4. Da Vinci and The 7 Counterfeit Heroic Spirits AKA Jeanne Alter's Bizarre, Sad And Kinda Heartwarming Adventure, followed by, hopefully, a continuation of one of the best relationships in the game.


5. Summer 2016 was a huge two-part event, so they'll most likely skip the rerun and skip directly into "Summer 2017" with maybe a few added requirements to get Assassin Scathach and a pre-event gacha for the 2016 Servants. We better have swimsuit Nero this time, ya hear me, DW?


All in all, 2017 seems to be a good year for F/GO, and that's without considering the new original events they must be planning to have.


The real question should be : How does her dress not fall from her?
My theory is that she uses the same magic as the one that makes her fly, so that the dress flies with her.

Is it possible to have only him fight and send her away, then? :D

What were Saber Wars about?
I'm pretty sure they'll make another Valentine's Day event. I think they will also make events related to new Fate animes coming this year, like maybe it'll be possible to get Vlad as Lancer or Chiron or Semiramis if they do some Fate Apocrypha event.
Jeanne d'Arc in a relationship? The way I always saw her, the mere thought of it seems ridiculous xD
They should think about their female players instead and add swimsuit Gilgamesh instead :3

Frostbite_ said:
Ah, young love. A crazy stalker goddess who is technically supposed to be a virgin forever and an insane hunter that murdered hundreds of animals on a whim.
(define "heroic" again?)


Lol Even Jack the Ripper is there, so I think she's rather okay-ish for the definition in comparison
Jan 15, 2017 11:01 AM

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About saber wars, there are actually 16 Saberfaces (i Am still missing Okita...)
I wouldn't be surprise Mysterious Sailor X to be the free 4* (they already gave us Jailer)

I would not be surprised either if Mhx is coming Back in gacha with New animation and interlude...

But they Will need to star a new 5*...
who would be the 5*? Saber lion? Vénus Nero? Mordred alter? mysterious arturia lancer oneechan Z? Kamikaze magical Jeanne? Okita alter???

...
THERE ARE TOO MANY SABERFACES!
And I support Mhx!
bruh
Jan 15, 2017 11:35 AM

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20098
Frostbite_ said:
astroprogs said:

The question should be: Why is there a half-naked girl with him (Orion)?
HE is the Servant you summon, not her lol

Ah, young love. A crazy stalker goddess who is technically supposed to be a virgin forever and an insane hunter that murdered hundreds of animals on a whim.
(define "heroic" again?)
Lets not talk about how the vast majority of heroes are just murderers, rapists etc ect.
Jan 15, 2017 11:52 AM
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Jul 2016
468
ssjokg said:
Frostbite_ said:

Ah, young love. A crazy stalker goddess who is technically supposed to be a virgin forever and an insane hunter that murdered hundreds of animals on a whim.
(define "heroic" again?)
Lets not talk about how the vast majority of heroes are just murderers, rapists etc ect.

true enough, but my point stands, lol
the definition of "heroic" is really fucked up in the nasuverse
Jan 15, 2017 11:55 AM

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2254
ssjokg said:
Frostbite_ said:

Ah, young love. A crazy stalker goddess who is technically supposed to be a virgin forever and an insane hunter that murdered hundreds of animals on a whim.
(define "heroic" again?)
Lets not talk about how the vast majority of heroes are just murderers, rapists etc ect.

Technically speaking, only mashu, mozart, illya and kuro (as servant), andersen, shakespear, nursery rhyme, helena, edison and tesla are not murderer
maybe sanzou too.

Jailter is guilty of possibly put us all in jail...


marie antoinette and da vinci cause indirectly lot of death
bruh
Jan 15, 2017 12:01 PM

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20098
Frostbite_ said:
ssjokg said:
Lets not talk about how the vast majority of heroes are just murderers, rapists etc ect.

true enough, but my point stands, lol
the definition of "heroic" is really fucked up in the nasuverse
I am actually talking about real history and mythology.
Jan 15, 2017 12:08 PM
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468
ssjokg said:
Frostbite_ said:

true enough, but my point stands, lol
the definition of "heroic" is really fucked up in the nasuverse
I am actually talking about real history and mythology.

yeah, but we don't have a throne of heroes that decides the stuff
in our universe, they don't have to be considered heroes
Jan 15, 2017 12:12 PM

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2107
OMG We need Saber Lion in the game o:


kei78 said:
ssjokg said:
Lets not talk about how the vast majority of heroes are just murderers, rapists etc ect.

Technically speaking, only mashu, mozart, illya and kuro (as servant), andersen, shakespear, nursery rhyme, helena, edison and tesla are not murderer
maybe sanzou too.

Jailter is guilty of possibly put us all in jail...


marie antoinette and da vinci cause indirectly lot of death


Well, it's like in Prisma Illya when they mention killing some persons to save more. Shirou also killed persons, to save more. Their definition of a hero is probably .. Someone famous Lol But also maybe someone who had some positive influence, the way they see it.
Jan 15, 2017 12:14 PM

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20098
Frostbite_ said:
ssjokg said:
I am actually talking about real history and mythology.

yeah, but we don't have a throne of heroes that decides the stuff
in our universe, they don't have to be considered heroes
Well too bad because they ARE considered heroes. Well Frankenstein's monster isnt but you get my point.

Orion, Heracles, Ajax, Alexander, Odysseas etc by our standards are murderers, thiefs, rapists etc. Yet we do consider them heroes.
Jan 15, 2017 12:17 PM
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468
ssjokg said:
Frostbite_ said:

yeah, but we don't have a throne of heroes that decides the stuff
in our universe, they don't have to be considered heroes
Well too bad because they ARE considered heroes. Well Frankenstein's monster isnt but you get my point.

Orion, Heracles, Ajax, Alexander, Odysseas etc by our standards are murderers, thiefs, rapists etc. Yet we do consider them heroes.

I'm fairly certain most people don't even know Orion and Ajax. Odysseus and Heracles I can kinda give you, but I'm not sure if people consider Alexander a hero if they do know him.
(also, not everyone considers those people heroes)
Frostbite_Jan 15, 2017 12:37 PM
Jan 15, 2017 12:36 PM

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20098
Frostbite_ said:
ssjokg said:
Well too bad because they ARE considered heroes. Well Frankenstein's monster isnt but you get my point.

Orion, Heracles, Ajax, Alexander, Odysseas etc by our standards are murderers, thiefs, rapists etc. Yet we do consider them heroes.

I'm fairly certain most people don't even know Orion and Ajax. Odysseus and Heracles I can kinda give you, but I'm not sure if people consider Alexander a hero if they do know him.
(also, not every considers those people heroes)
It's not about "everyone'. It is about "a lot".

It is the same in Nasuverse.

Tell me how many westerners know about Amaterasu/Tamamo, solely from history and no videogames and anime. But in Japan a nation of 127 million people know them.

Alexander is still considered as a hero here in Greece. A hero that "spread greek culture to barbaric lands".What destruction and bloodbaths he caused dont matter.

The Argonautica is an "epic" about some "heroes" going to a far away land and stealing a king's treasure, his daughter, and killing his son.All of them are heroes.
But then when Medea gets her revenge she isnt a heroine .

In Iliad, the greeks are clearly the bad guys but everyone cheers for them when they read the story.I mean kids and people that dont really analyze stuff.

People of legend are heroes simply because their epics and tales say they were.Or they arent simply because those tales say there arent.
Jan 15, 2017 12:40 PM
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468
ssjokg said:
Frostbite_ said:

I'm fairly certain most people don't even know Orion and Ajax. Odysseus and Heracles I can kinda give you, but I'm not sure if people consider Alexander a hero if they do know him.
(also, not every considers those people heroes)
It's not about "everyone'. It is about "a lot".

It is the same in Nasuverse.

Tell me how many westerners know about Amaterasu/Tamamo, solely from history and no videogames and anime. But in Japan a nation of 127 million people know them.

Alexander is still considered as a hero here in Greece. A hero that "spread greek culture to barbaric lands".What destruction and bloodbaths he caused dont matter.

The Argonautica is an "epic" about some "heroes" going to a far away land and stealing a king's treasure, his daughter, and killing his son.All of them are heroes.
But then when Medea gets her revenge she isnt a heroine .

In Iliad, the greeks are clearly the bad guys but everyone cheers for them when they read the story.I mean kids and people that dont really analyze stuff.

People of legend are heroes simply because their epics and tales say they were.Or they arent simply because those tales say there arent.

To be fair, in the Iliad half the people on each side are assholes. Paris did seduce a married woman and then basically kidnapped her. Not exactly a great way to start a relationship. Some people in Troy were nice, sure, but some people in the greek army were nice as well and just forced into the war.
Anyway, yeah, the people that are called heroes are pretty dubious in most cases, though there are some real heroes in the mix.
Jan 15, 2017 12:48 PM

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They're actually considered famous historical/mythical figures who achieved a great thing or two. Nobody actually considered any of them "heroes", in that specific meaning of the word.
Ancient folklore likes to wank all kinds of strong/influential figures, but that's really all there's to it. It's the ancient mind of "Strong=Just and Heroic". I mean, freaking look at Zeus.

The people who actually can qualify as "heroes" IMO are, ironically enough, those who have the "Pioneer of the Stars" skill in the Nasuverse.

Nyarlathothep said:

What were Saber Wars about?

A Star Wars parody where "The Dark Side" is "Saberface" and "Light Sabers" are "Ahoges", featuring Lily and her mentor Mysterious Heroine X who go on an adventure to rid the universe of the evil of the Saberface and maybe eat some junk food in the process.
astroprogsJan 15, 2017 12:56 PM
Jan 15, 2017 12:49 PM

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Frostbite_ said:

To be fair, in the Iliad half the people on each side are assholes. Paris did seduce a married woman and then basically kidnapped her. Not exactly a great way to start a relationship. Some people in Troy were nice, sure, but some people in the greek army were nice as well and just forced into the war.
Anyway, yeah, the people that are called heroes are pretty dubious in most cases, though there are some real heroes in the mix.

Well when I compare a seduction to an ancient world war army march the later seems worse.
Jan 15, 2017 12:52 PM
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ssjokg said:
Frostbite_ said:

To be fair, in the Iliad half the people on each side are assholes. Paris did seduce a married woman and then basically kidnapped her. Not exactly a great way to start a relationship. Some people in Troy were nice, sure, but some people in the greek army were nice as well and just forced into the war.
Anyway, yeah, the people that are called heroes are pretty dubious in most cases, though there are some real heroes in the mix.

Well when I compare a seduction to an ancient world war army march the later seems worse.

Yeah, sure, that's true, but then Troy didn't give Helen back when they were asked for her. Which tells you basically everything you need to know about how cool those guys were.
"Oh, hey, this guy kidnapped the wife of a powerful king which ends up giving us absolutely no political or economic benefit. Do we give her back and fuck over one person which may lead to us getting some favours or start a war for two people?"
Yeah, good call there.
Jan 15, 2017 1:04 PM

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ssjokg said:
The Argonautica is an "epic" about some "heroes" going to a far away land and stealing a king's treasure, his daughter, and killing his son.All of them are heroes.
But then when Medea gets her revenge she isnt a heroine .


Medea is still in the game as an "Heroic spirit", as there are legends about her. Honestly, we can't blame her for what she did, I sympathized with her feelings when I read a play about her. It's just that the way she took her revenge was horrible.


It's all about how those persons are in stories. What I say may be spoilerish, so sorry for that, but in Fate Apocrypha, Caster has the ability to create Noble Phantasms, since writing stories was his thing when he was alive. He doesn't really qualify as a hero himself, but there are still stories around him.

astroprogs said:
Nyarlathothep said:

What were Saber Wars about?

A Star Wars parody where "The Dark Side" is "Saberface" and "Light Sabers" are "Ahoges", featuring Lily and her mentor Mysterious Heroine X who go on an adventure to rid the universe of the evil of the Saberface and maybe eat some junk food in the process.


It seemt interesting
Jan 15, 2017 1:05 PM

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Frostbite_ said:
ssjokg said:

Well when I compare a seduction to an ancient world war army march the later seems worse.

Yeah, sure, that's true, but then Troy didn't give Helen back when they were asked for her. Which tells you basically everything you need to know about how cool those guys were.
"Oh, hey, this guy kidnapped the wife of a powerful king which ends up giving us absolutely no political or economic benefit. Do we give her back and fuck over one person which may lead to us getting some favours or start a war for two people?"
Yeah, good call there.
I never said they were smart.
If you think about how they were defeated, it just shows what dorks they were. Or Homer was just a hack.
Jan 15, 2017 1:06 PM

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Nyarlathothep said:
ssjokg said:
The Argonautica is an "epic" about some "heroes" going to a far away land and stealing a king's treasure, his daughter, and killing his son.All of them are heroes.
But then when Medea gets her revenge she isnt a heroine .


Medea is still in the game as an "Heroic spirit", as there are legends about her. Honestly, we can't blame her for what she did, I sympathized with her feelings when I read a play about her. It's just that the way she took her revenge was horrible.


It's all about how those persons are in stories. What I say may be spoilerish, so sorry for that, but in Fate Apocrypha, Caster has the ability to create Noble Phantasms, since writing stories was his thing when he was alive. He doesn't really qualify as a hero himself, but there are still stories around him.

I wasnt talking about the Universe of Fate.

And most people dont really sympathize with her.Well the new wave of feminist will probably do.
Jan 15, 2017 1:10 PM

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Heroic spirits don't have to be heroes. There, problem solved.
Jan 15, 2017 1:13 PM

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Nyarlathothep said:

Medea is still in the game as an "Heroic spirit", as there are legends about her. Honestly, we can't blame her for what she did, I sympathized with her feelings when I read a play about her. It's just that the way she took her revenge was horrible.


Actually, she's in the game as distorted HSs like Medusa. We also have the "Anti-Hero" like J.Alter, Jack and several others. The Throne stores legacy and myth, good and bad.
astroprogsJan 15, 2017 1:16 PM
Jan 15, 2017 1:19 PM

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ssjokg said:
Nyarlathothep said:


Medea is still in the game as an "Heroic spirit", as there are legends about her. Honestly, we can't blame her for what she did, I sympathized with her feelings when I read a play about her. It's just that the way she took her revenge was horrible.


It's all about how those persons are in stories. What I say may be spoilerish, so sorry for that, but in Fate Apocrypha, Caster has the ability to create Noble Phantasms, since writing stories was his thing when he was alive. He doesn't really qualify as a hero himself, but there are still stories around him.

I wasnt talking about the Universe of Fate.

And most people dont really sympathize with her.Well the new wave of feminist will probably do.


It's surely because of the way Seneca wrote her story, but I remember feeling really sad for her when I read this. Just imagine sacrificing everything for the man you love. Then someday, he leaves you for a young girl who barely did anything for him in comparison. Of course, in the meantime, you had your own family with him ... I don't think you need to be a feminist to be able to understand that.
Well, Medea is totally fucked up, but Jason was a real asshole with her too.

astroprogs said:
Nyarlathothep said:

Medea is still in the game as an "Heroic spirit", as there are legends about her. Honestly, we can't blame her for what she did, I sympathized with her feelings when I read a play about her. It's just that the way she took her revenge was horrible.


Actually, she's in the game as distorted HSs like Medusa. We also have the "Anti-Hero" like J.Alter, Jack and several others. The Throne stores legacy and myth, good and bad.


What's The Throne?
NyarlathothepJan 15, 2017 1:23 PM
Jan 15, 2017 1:23 PM

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When I say new wave of feminists I mean those that hate all men just because.
They dont even need a reason to like Medea.
Jan 15, 2017 1:33 PM

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Nyarlathothep said:
astroprogs said:


Actually, she's in the game as distorted HSs like Medusa. We also have the "Anti-Hero" like J.Alter, Jack and several others. The Throne stores legacy and myth, good and bad.


What's The Throne?

The Throne of Heroes, where all heroic spirits are stored outside space&time. It's all explained in the VN.
Jan 15, 2017 1:55 PM

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ssjokg said:
When I say new wave of feminists I mean those that hate all men just because.
They dont even need a reason to like Medea.


Oh, I see. Well, I do think anyone can relate to her somehow since it can happen to anyone to be treated like crap by someone they helped, which is, like I said in another thread an investment which in the end would there be revealed to be vain.

ShinsoPriest said:
Nyarlathothep said:


What's The Throne?

The Throne of Heroes, where all heroic spirits are stored outside space&time. It's all explained in the VN.


Oooooh ! I remember that ! Shanks :D
Jan 15, 2017 2:52 PM

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Type-Moon lore can be convoluted af. Best not to think TOO rigidly about it as ANYTHING can have a spin or an exception to the rule. Just as the Holy Grail isn't really a Holy Grail. A Master isn't always just someone that issue orders and support (hello Souichirou Kuzuki!) or Archer class is really made up of Archers (pfft).

Nasu will wake up a new morning and be like "I have an idea!" and will forget about the rules he established and retcon or make a new plot hole to his universe just because it's creative and will give people the tingles.

And yes, third wave feminism sucks.
Jan 15, 2017 3:08 PM
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ssjokg said:
Frostbite_ said:

Yeah, sure, that's true, but then Troy didn't give Helen back when they were asked for her. Which tells you basically everything you need to know about how cool those guys were.
"Oh, hey, this guy kidnapped the wife of a powerful king which ends up giving us absolutely no political or economic benefit. Do we give her back and fuck over one person which may lead to us getting some favours or start a war for two people?"
Yeah, good call there.
I never said they were smart.
If you think about how they were defeated, it just shows what dorks they were. Or Homer was just a hack.

I heard Homer never existed, so technically he wasn't really smart.
Genkii said:
Type-Moon lore can be convoluted af. Best not to think TOO rigidly about it as ANYTHING can have a spin or an exception to the rule. Just as the Holy Grail isn't really a Holy Grail. A Master isn't always just someone that issue orders and support (hello Souichirou Kuzuki!) or Archer class is really made up of Archers (pfft).

Nasu will wake up a new morning and be like "I have an idea!" and will forget about the rules he established and retcon or make a new plot hole to his universe just because it's creative and will give people the tingles.

And yes, third wave feminism sucks.

Just because they're correct doesn't mean they're right.
Jan 15, 2017 3:14 PM

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Frostbite_ said:
ssjokg said:
I never said they were smart.
If you think about how they were defeated, it just shows what dorks they were. Or Homer was just a hack.

I heard Homer never existed, so technically he wasn't really smart.
Genkii said:
Type-Moon lore can be convoluted af. Best not to think TOO rigidly about it as ANYTHING can have a spin or an exception to the rule. Just as the Holy Grail isn't really a Holy Grail. A Master isn't always just someone that issue orders and support (hello Souichirou Kuzuki!) or Archer class is really made up of Archers (pfft).

Nasu will wake up a new morning and be like "I have an idea!" and will forget about the rules he established and retcon or make a new plot hole to his universe just because it's creative and will give people the tingles.

And yes, third wave feminism sucks.

Just because they're correct doesn't mean they're right.

Well till they prove that....

That sentence is true tho.Even if it is just a fansub.
Jan 15, 2017 9:48 PM

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Someday we Will have Che Guevara, hittler, Kim Jong il, putin, funny Vamp, Mao Zedong, Einstein etc as servant
bruh
Jan 15, 2017 10:11 PM

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kei78 said:
Someday we Will have Che Guevara, hittler, Kim Jong il, putin, funny Vamp, Mao Zedong, Einstein etc as servant

You're doing that on purpose, aren't you?
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