| Good point. It was produced by a Korean though, which is probably why it made its way on to MAL. I will agree that there is a lot of the same thing in anime, moe series in particular, but there is also a lot of series well versed in different stories, genres, ideas, subjects, characterization, plot, animation, style, etc. Anime isn't all the same, and I hope you'll agree that only the likes of Hayao Miyazaki, Makoto Shinkai and other Japanese animators/directors are able to create such wonderfully animated works of art. Other countires have yet to really push the limits of cel-animation like Japan have. Also, when I said original I was referring more to the stlye, as that is mainly what anime is recognised for. I disagree. While I am not the biggest fan of Advent Children, I do recognise its stunning animation. However, WALL-E is far more advanced and will definitely stand the test of time much longer. The styles in Japanese animation aren't all the same, as you say. Avatar was created in America however, not in Japan. So it isn't an anime. Simple. There really is no argument against it. Ah sorry. My avatar is a fanart of Asuka from Neon Genesis Evangelion. |
ToukaNov 24, 2009 4:44 AM
| 1. If we stick to the traditional anime definition (anime = animation made in Japan) than indeed there is no argument that would make Avatar an anime. Even if we stretch the definition to asian animation (like some do) the fact that it was outsourced to Korea (and therefore animated by people who animate anime) is a moot point and some may or may not accept it as anime, but it is not a strong argument. 2. I on the other hand suggest that animation shouldn't be classified by country but by style. There is nothing wrong with having a term for japanese animation. What is wrong is that this term is wrongfully associated to some kind of superior animation. And by this anything not made in Japan is obscured no matter how good it may be. Let's say X is a brilliant director with a brilliant idea for an animated show in this style. But he is let's say from Europe. No matter how good the show is or how much it looks like a veritable anime by the traditional definition it will not be considered an anime because he was born in the wrong place on the planet.It will never be able to achive the same popularity as a show made in japan because it is rejected by the anime community. Other communities will also reject it because it looks like anime. And therefore it will be unnoticed by many people because it is considers in a way similar to a half daemon all because it was made in the wrong place. That is why I say we should classify animation on style not place of origin. 3. What do you disagree? That was exactly my point. AC ain't got nothing on WALL-E. WALL-E is just more memorable.I think there was a misunderstanding here. I gave this example because it kind of relates to point 2. I have asked a few people in the anime community in my country and: 1. Few heard oh WALL-E; 2. Those who saw it said it was great; 3. It took a bit of convincing to watch it for those who didn't knew about it. 4. There are also really great western animated shows. If we limit ourselves to the 2D realistic style there just to name a few: Gargoyles, Star Wars: Clone Wars(the one from 2003 not the new CGI one), Samurai Jack, The Disney Clasics or even Justice League. Of course western studios excel at deformed animation but i won't make a list here too. 5. Do you have a link for that fanart? |
alexvodaNov 24, 2009 6:36 PM
| It doesn't matter if it was animated in Korea or not. It originated in America, the idea was conceived in America, it was created in America. The Americans employed Koreans to work for them, as many television producers do. If the Americans did not first come up with the idea, write the script, draw the storyboards, design the characters and plan the episodes the Koreans would have nothing to work with. You're free to define anime as whatever you want, it doesn't bother me. However, I'm sure the Japanese, or any other country for that matter, do not want anyone else stealing their heritage. If your country invented a well known medium I'm sure you wouldn't like other countries imitating that medium and claiming it to be the real thing. We're going well beyond the point though - why are we even talking about this? Anime is generally defined by place of origin, and I am just stressing that Avatar is not an anime simply because it originated in America. Ah, I do apologise. Seems I misread your post again. For some reason I thought you said WALL-E ain't got nothing on Advent Children. Also, just encase you got the wrong idea - I myself am not rejecting Avatar just because it looks like an anime. I'm not rejecting it at all. If it was on the MAL database it would be in my top five, no doubt. It's a fantastic series and anyone who does reject it because it looks like an anime but isn't is a damn fool. I don't think anyone does though, as the popularity shows. It is hugely popular, more so than a lot of anime series, among anime fans and in general. Here is the fanart. Here is another you may be interested in. Same artist. |
ToukaNov 25, 2009 1:29 AM
| Hey! Everybody!! Do you consider this anime? http://myanimelist.net/anime/7423/The_Tales_of_Rien_Village_#1 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1wrfr_the-tales-of-rien-village-1_shortfilms And I am sure I can find many more like it. Is the traditional definition of anime still valid? Would we rather have animation categorized by country or by style? I highly doubt that people who call themselves anime fans are fans of something like that. Either we should call ourselves realistic animation(or something like that, we should find a term) fans or continue calling ourselves anime fans and redefine the term anime (and call japanese animation just japanese animation). |
| and another one like the one above http://myanimelist.net/anime/7505/Knyacki! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHPpaNpqMnI |
| I hope I'm not reviving a dead thread. ^^;;; Anyway, I'm signing... I understand that Avatar is technically not an anime, but if that's the case, why is OEL on the site? I mean, if "I Luv Halloween" can be on here, and bears absolutely no resemblance to manga AT ALL, why can't Avatar be included? |
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Touka said: that's not the one i was talking about. The manga was added ages ago (here) and there isn't an anime. i was referring to the volumes that TokyoPop had already released. there are 8 volumes now. i too believe anime should be defined by style, a style that has its origins in Japan. location should NOT be the only factor. it's unjust. i wholly agree with the points that alexvoda posted. |
GenieGin13Jan 2, 2010 8:52 AM
GenieGin13 said: that's not the one i was talking about. i was referring to the volumes that TokyoPop had already released. those should count as "manga." Actually, I disagree with you there. That was a "cine-manga", which doesn't really count as a manga at all. If that was added then the Hannah Montana, High School Musical, and Lizzie McGuire cine-mangas would have to be added too, and I honestly doubt anybody would want THOSE on here. D: (That being said, I STILL don't understand what OEL is doing on this site... DX) |
| |
| yes it's technically a "cine"-manga.... just because it's a manga based on a show ....it's a still a manga with anime art |
Touka said: You're free to define anime as whatever you want, it doesn't bother me. However, I'm sure the Japanese, or any other country for that matter, do not want anyone else stealing their heritage. If your country invented a well known medium I'm sure you wouldn't like other countries imitating that medium and claiming it to be the real thing. We're going well beyond the point though - why are we even talking about this? Anime is generally defined by place of origin, and I am just stressing that Avatar is not an anime simply because it originated in America. Anime first came about when Japanese people began to experiment with techniques that were born in the West. It's not something they came up with without being influenced by any outside medium. It was influenced by American animation, they got the idea from us. So if they got the idea from us, what's the difference with us borrowing back? And I have a question(not directed at you really, Touka), if Avatar isn't allowed on this site because it wasn't created and animated by born-and-bred Japanese people despite it being heavily influenced by anime, why doesn't this site exclude anything but anime in its purest form? By that I mean English dubbed anime. There are always little things(and by little I don't mean unimportant, I mean nuances and subtleties)that get lost in translation, and English voices with American sensibilities make inevitable subtle changes to the characters which in a way changes their personality and what they are seen as by the audience, so why not remove that American influence? Avatar isn't "anime", but it's like a cousin to the genre. I don't see why it shouldn't be included. |
| No, I gave that little speech because I don't think Avatar should be added. :D Yeah, I sign. ^^ |
| (signs) :) |
| "Where will a newborn go from here? The net is vast and infinite" - Motoko Kusanagi |
| I know its probably to late.... BUT I SIGN! :D Looooove Avatar sooo much! :) |
 |
| *signs* I believe they now took down the Avatar manga as well, which I find weird. People that are saying it resembles no similarities to anime might want to do some more research before commenting :) |
| My avatar is from Kowarekake no Orgel. Please stop asking. |
Armiga21 said: Anti-signing It's not made in Japan, it doesn't belong here. It's nothing like anime. End of story. There's plenty of other shows that are less anime on here already, why not one more? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be on here. *signs* |
Armiga21 said: Anti-signing It's not made in Japan, it doesn't belong here. It's nothing like anime. End of story. Weeaboo. |
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Armiga21 said: Anti-signing It's not made in Japan, it doesn't belong here. It's nothing like anime. End of story. Right. http://myanimelist.net/anime/6156/Pleasant_Goat_and_Big_Big_Wolf_(Movie) |
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Armiga21 said: xlovingprodigyx said: People that are saying it resembles no similarities to anime might want to do some more research before commenting :) Maybe you should do some research :) This show isn't liked in Japan, so not even the people who made anime care about it. I did not say anything about Japan liking the show nor if people who made anime care about it. However, please do tell me where you read that the whole area of Japan dislikes this show in the first place, because right now it sounds like you're saying random things to somewhat back up your argument. Even if that was somehow true, that doesn't even help your argument as to why it resembles nothing like anime. |
| My avatar is from Kowarekake no Orgel. Please stop asking. |
| I don't really consider Avatar anime, but it is based heavily on japanese anime, the animation style, as well as various asian cultures, so If its on MAL I think its perfectly reasonable. I'll sign. :) |
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| I'll sign too :D |
| "If it's your wish, I will follow you everywhere, Even if your throne crumbles, And your shiny crown turns to rust, Even if the bodies pile up endlessly, Above the bottomless pile corpses, Beside you as you lie softly down, I will be.....Until i hear the words "check Mate." ♥ |
| I searched for ages til i found out that Avatar isn't "real Anime". Didn't even occur to me ;) *signed* |
| I actually will be glad if there will be all kinds of cartoons on MAL but it will probably be against the name of the site at least, so actually i don't think it will hurt anyone to add avatar here. *signed* |
| But if the arrow is straight And the point is slick It can pierce through dust No matter how thick... |
Avatar has zero to do with Japan and was animated in Korea and America. Yet there are plenty of Korean animated series that are accepted on this website as are Korean and Chinese comics. |
sauveterreApr 11, 2012 4:34 PM
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| Christopher D. Berning Avatar is an anime bring it too MAL |
| I would sign it but, it really isn't an anime. I would love to have it on my list but it just isn't an anime. So I will not sign. |
 |
| Oh god yes, The Last Airbender... *signed* Haven't started LoK yet, going to soon. |
| One death today is a tragedy, but when hundreds of thousands die fighting for their country, it's just another statistic. |
| Signed |
I hope you'll agree that only the likes of Hayao Miyazaki, Makoto Shinkai and other Japanese animators/directors are able to create such wonderfully animated works of art. I know this is part of an old post... but I, personally, hate Miyazaki... especially after Ponyo... which was even stated to be inspired by The Little Mermaid. Japanese Animation is FREQUENTLY inspired by America. It's unfair to discriminate based on official "origin" alone. If you look up "anime" on Wikipedia (I'm using Wikipedia because one could argue it holds popular knowledge/opinion despite it being slightly unreliable at times): Anime is the Japanese abbreviated pronunciation of "animation." In English-speaking countries, anime refers to a style of animation originating in Japan, characterized by colorful graphics and often featuring themes intended for an adult audience. The intended meaning of the word 'anime' sometimes varies, depending on the context. In Japan, the term anime does not specify an animation's nation of origin or style; instead, it serves as a blanket term to refer to all forms of animation from around the world. It then goes on to express the style (design), effect/technique, story themes... etc. Meaning it is REASONABLE to define anime by style... giving "Japanimation"-inspired animation some acknowledgement. In all honesty, some Asian-made "anime" is trash in comparison. In style, plot, and everything... So comparing Avatar to films by Miyazaki is kind of an irrelevant argument. I think it SHOULD be added... whether or not you fully AGREE to it as an "anime" (depending on the definition you're using...) it's close enough (and demanded enough) that it wouldn't harm anything or anyone to put it up there as an option. It airs on anime-hosting websites... It's appreciated by much of the same fan-base... You don't have to personally acknowledge it if it really bothers you so immensely. I mean, I don't know how anyone would sleep at night knowing it was added to the database. Gosh. :/ I'd sign, but I'm pretty sure this thread is deceased. |
| Sure, I'd sign the petition. I'd also like to add the new Thundercats to this list since it's being done by Studio 4°C which IS a Japanese animation house...aka, the do anime there. |
| What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about? |
BadLuckTuck said: I'll post. Avatar was amazing, and they let other American anime on this site. They've let other American anime on MAL? Then they sure as hell have to add AVATAR! Best American Anime that I know! EVER! I sign! |
| Ok, finished reading all 5 pages. I recognize the argument that the production origin in not japan or it's neighbors. But i think that avatar and the legend or korra would be nice additions to MAL. America has more immigrants than "natives" (which i realize is a silly point to most) But I think of anime as a national thing and also as a cultural thing just like I call rubios tea even through it don't come from the tea plant. *Signed* |
| ~ * my number is 3 * ~ _._ : l 'o' ( ; _-_ : ( T.T &: .~. : P >.< |
| I'll sign because Avatar is an AMAZING TV series |
 |
| Avatar isn't an anime. But I'll sign, I love it too much... the anime word must know of it. |
BadLuckTuck said: I'll post. Avatar was amazing, and they let other American anime on this site. ... they let other American Anime? then FUCK this should add Avatar! I sign my name Edit: oh... I already posted here once LOL xD |
waalex11 said: What are these American anime on here? Btw, there's no such thing as American anime.BadLuckTuck said: I'll post. Avatar was amazing, and they let other American anime on this site. ... they let other American Anime? then FUCK this should add Avatar! I sign my name Edit: oh... I already posted here once LOL xD desfires said: Yeah because it gets added or asked why it isn't added every day.Wow, they even wrote in their FAQ that they won't add Avatar... Fuck it, this show has to be recognized by the anime scene! I'll sign! I wonder if the original poster still updates the number of people signing. There are 5 pages already, but when I look at the list at the first page, it seems to be such a little number of peope... Do you want the site to recognize it as an anime? Because that will never happen. |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
| Signed |
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