So it's cool to be a "socially inept otaku"?

Zmffkskem said:
Perhaps it's not that being alone is 'better' but that it is the only practical possibility? It's not like some 'socially inept' person can suddenly develop the inspiration to go socialising for no reason. For whatever reason would (s)he do so? To 'better' themselves?

NicoleB said:
Not really saying that it's easy for someone who has difficulty socialising to easily make friends.

But I generally think that a lot of them don't try or give up being really giving any effort into it.

NicoleB said:
Maybe being a bit harsh but that's how I've seen it. I've seen people like in school who were socially awkward and how some have gone out of their way to try and talk to them and include them into things and how they generally just dont really try.

I'm not saying everyone is like that, but it definitely seems to be a common trait.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not claiming to be right or anything.

JReitan said:
Yes, it is these examples of bad relationships that would benefit better if the person didn't socialize at all.

Don't get me wrong though, socialization is one of the keys to living a human life. It is wrong to think that it is completely unacceptable. A good real life example of someone who benefited greatly from socializing at the minimum level would be Miyamoto Musashi, whom I take for one of my idols in life. At the same time however, I idolize Bruce Lee, who promotes socializing at a great level.

I admit however, that it is indeed mostly the case that it is better for people to socialize more often than not. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't be careful about how or whom he is socializing with.

NicoleB said:


Not really saying that it's easy for someone who has difficulty socialising to easily make friends.

But I generally think that a lot of them don't try or give up being really giving any effort into it.

Maybe being a bit harsh but that's how I've seen it. I've seen people like in school who were socially awkward and how some have gone out of their way to try and talk to them and include them into things and how they generally just dont really try.

I'm not saying everyone is like that, but it definitely seems to be a common trait.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not claiming to be right or anything.

NicoleB said:
Sometimes having a shitty relationship can help you to appreciate what it is that you do have and can lead to better friendships/relationships in the future.

I think it's all part of growing up raelly.

Zmffkskem said:
In other words, in your view they don't deserve social lives.
Just how much effort do you want? What do you mean by trying? Perhaps what they want is friendship on a silver platter, and you can hate it for all you like.

Perhaps they are trying not to 'have friends.'

There's no miracle in this. It's not like if they tried, they would succeed. And failure could be nothing less than devastating. Do you consider such costs to them, and would you pay such a cost?

NicoleB said:
I just don't agree with that.

Sure a bad relationship or friendship can be hurtful, but I don't think it's so bad that you should avoid them completely?

Sometimes having a shitty relationship can help you to appreciate what it is that you do have and can lead to better friendships/relationships in the future.

I think it's all part of growing up raelly.

Zmffkskem said:

The closer the relationship, the shorter the knife required. Betrayal does not leave a nice aftertaste. The cut of a knife that slices off a limb probably would let you 'appreciate' your remaining limbs. For me, I'd scream at the unfairness, perhaps for life.

Zmffkskem said:

The closer the relationship, the shorter the knife required. Betrayal does not leave a nice aftertaste. The cut of a knife that slices off a limb probably would let you 'appreciate' your remaining limbs. For me, I'd scream at the unfairness, perhaps for life.

Lauriet said:
I'm not an otaku or even intermediate level anime fan, and the reason I'm socially inept can't exactly be helped.

People throw around "Otaku" as much as they do "Troll". I don't think you'll be able to stop 'em.



Not exactly work safe.

NicoleB said:
However if you do nothing then you definitely won't succeed.

NicoleB said:


Again this is just being cynical.

So something shitty happened before, that doesn't mean it'll happen again.

Sorry but you just have to be brave then, getting over something that hurts can be difficult, no doubt about that, but it's something that you have to do.

JReitan said:

Sadly, I think such situations exist. For example, if someone were to attempt to take the life of one of my friends, I wouldn't wait for the opportunity to socialize to open itself, I would make taking the offender's life a priority instead.

NicoleB said:
Again this is just being cynical.

So something shitty happened before, that doesn't mean it'll happen again.

Sorry but you just have to be brave then, getting over something that hurts can be difficult, no doubt about that, but it's something that you have to do.

Lubulos said:

This is called Nocebo Effect. The more you think that way, the more proofs you'll find that will strenghten your convinction.

Zmffkskem said:

Success is more difficult than it implies, and success, sometimes, isn't worth the price.

JReitan said:

Yep, Nicole is right on this one. The fact that closer relationships means more horrible consequences as a result of betrayal doesn't call for a need to decrease the amount of socializing one does.

If you're a man, you will accept this fact of life and attack it head on.

Zmffkskem said:
I don't see how being pragmatic and being grounded in reality makes me a cynic.(Actually I guess I do. )

It doesn't need to happen again for those who suffered betrayal to never want to suffer friendship again. Again, cost outweighs benefits. The rational idea is to not 'make friends.'

'Getting over' is not always the recommended decision. Here, I'll just quote Koi Kaze, an incest anime:

Do not judge who is miserable and who is not.

NicoleB said:

Sure, but difficulty doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

NicoleB said:


Mm sorry I'm not really sure how that is relevant here.

That's a rather specific extreme example, which doesn't really have a lot to do with socialising.

Zmffkskem said:


This isn't for unknown rewards as life promises. It's for known rewards placed way below other priorities such as anime/gaming.

I guess you're highly irrational and love paying for overpriced goods and low quality products, because you believe such products are highly helpful and a necessity. Or perhaps you support the producers of such goods. Whatever it is, I'm sure there are people who are rational and pick the most optimal form of consumption which does not include 'making friends.'

JReitan said:
Another would be if a friend goes down a path that is just too low to even talk over. There are plenty of examples you can find simply by reading/watching enough stories.

Zmffkskem said:
Whatever the effect or confirmation bias, you have to admit that the action of thought induces bias. Psychology apparently studies all forms of them, and because humans 'think' they will have such biases.

NicoleB said:
That analogy isn't really very good.

NicoleB said:
Also, you really have no idea where socialising will ever end up, nobody does.

So it'll always be an unknown until you actually do it.

Zmffkskem said:

This alone, is judging their action. You have your own beliefs, and that guides your advice.

Your advice may or may not be applicable. It's very hard to shift your aperture and viewpoint to their side. Unless you do, all of it remains as good as good-looking paper that a lot of society seems to agree with, and thus looks even better.

NicoleB said:


I'm not sure there is ever such a path as that.

But give me an example of what you think is one.

Lubulos said:
The fact that human relationships make you suffer should not stop you from going into them. Sure, it's smart to avoid people in order to not suffer, but life isn't a contest about who is smarter or who suffer the least. You can either curls up like that worm, diminishing your pain, or you can accept pain in life in order to enjoy it more. The fact that life is full of sorrow can't change; your attitude toward it can.
"Forget the risk. Take the fall. If it's what you want, it's worth it all." (TTGL, xD)

NicoleB said:
Can you give me some examples of where people who have completely cut off all forms (or as most as humanely possible) social contact and their lives have become better.

Zmffkskem said:

I'm sorry I can speak for people who can be all sorts of people such as heroes to being a sorry excuse of a homo sapien that they are not 'a man.' This isn't a sexist comment. It's proof of a successful dehumanisation process, when people even fail to recognise the individuality/humanness of others.

Zmffkskem said:

I'm not part of the masochistic crowd. If anything I'm a hedonist

Zmffkskem said:

In fact, why not introduce Buddhism since you want stances:
Forget the risk. Forget the fall. Have no wants. Perhaps then you will be closer to understanding it all.

MADALIAN said:
I've been seeing a lot of people around this forum posing as "otaku", most of them illiterate 12 year-olds. I am not in the position to judge a person who decides to present himself/herself as an otaku, but I can't help but feel a bit bothered when I sometimes notice downright attention seekers taking on the persona of a socially awkward anime/manga/games fan, who doesn't have offline friends and never had a 3d crush. I will not provide you with examples because I don't want to quote & offend someone with my speculations, but they're pretty much everywhere in the General Discussions and Casual Chat boards.

What's more, to associate the "otaku" concept with social awkwardness is neither wrong, nor right, but I have a hunch that the people in question don't belong to either of them.(This phenomenon is similar to the Female Gamer thing: as in, usually when a girl declares to be a girl gamer, "believe it or not", she most probably sucks as a gamer. So I say, when somebody presents themselves as a friendless anime fan, he most probably has friends, but no personality.)

Lubulos said:


Yes, you're an hedonist, but in the true sense of the word, like Epicurus. You always choose to not suffer, which doesn't mean that you follow pleasure.



You know that's impossible, right? You can't suppress your will to live, but you can fake its death. You can want nothing, but you still want. I thought Schopenhauer was outmoded after Nietzsche, but it seems I was wrong, it still has strong supporters like you! :)

Face_Faith said:
Anyway, I get the idea, I mean I can understand why it's annoying, but there's nothing I can do about it, so I accept it...

JReitan said:

I really didn't understand this comment. Can you elaborate on this dehumanization process?

Allecto said:
It may be harsh, but not getting over something is more or less the same as giving up or bending to defeat. If you do nothing about something then nothing will happen. But if you choose to do something, then something good could happen. Eventually a person will draw a line as to how much

Allecto said:
...I know you're trying ever so hard to be a realist, but actually you're revealing yourself to be quite the pessimist when it comes to socialising. A lot of people would call that attitude "defeatist." No offence, but you sound like most of the socially inept people I know in real life who claim to have given up on socialising because after much effort and failure they think they're better off without it. But actually, from an outsider's point of view they weren't trying hard enough from the start or they raised the bar far too high to begin with. From my experience, people like that claim to have proudly "chosen" not to become involved with other people, when actually they just gave up or were too damn lazy to make the effort in the first place.

Lubulos said:
You know that's impossible, right? You can't suppress your will to live, but you can fake its death. You can want nothing, but you still want. I thought Schopenhauer was outmoded after Nietzsche, but it seems I was wrong, it still has strong supporters like you! :)

Zmffkskem said:
Dehumanisation is one of the most interesting processes I've seen. It's used as an explanation(and it sounds legit!) for inhumane acts. If human rights is about placing a minimum of rights accorded to people for being 'human' then dehumanisation is about degrading 'humans' to 'non-humans' or 'things' and thus deserving of no human rights. After all, would you think mass murderers deserve heaven? If no, then perhaps you, the reader, has dehumanised such an actor for a disgusting action.

I related your comment to dehumanisation because it seems to imply that such people do not have the courage a 'normal' human is 'expected to possess. Their status is lowered and so the corresponding outcome as well.(as compared to a 'normal' human, they don't achieve a social life)

JReitan said:

That explanation was much better, lol.

However, what is your stand on "dehumanization"? All I'm saying is that real men should get up and face life. Is there wrong in this?

Zmffkskem said:
That's interesting, but Buddhism doesn't 'want nothing.' (To qualify, I'm probably talking about a specific 'type' of buddhism) As far as I know the teachings actively go against human suffering. It specifically states material wants should be thrown away. I'm not a buddhist, so I can't tell you much more about their stance regarding this, but you might have a fun day with them.

Zmffkskem said:
And so the obvious question: what do we do with non-'real men?' You see, life is a bitch. Things are not simple, and I know you know that by now.

I also don't know too, honestly. Do we throw them away? Do we continue encouraging them? Much of our thoughts might not apply to them. 'Luckily' (or not) they generally form a minority.

NicoleB said:
I'm not sure friendship/socialising counts as a material want.

Zmffkskem said:
Excessive indulgence in socialising would be damaging

JReitan said:
What do we do with them? We encourage them through leadership and guidance. Just like Rider said in Fate/Zero, real kings are leaders that don't focus so much on perfect fairness, unlike Saber.

However, if such men become anti-humane to the point where discussion is not needed anymore, then we kill them.

Day2Dream said:

How is that any different to one religious group trying to convince another group they're wrong. You see the big problem with that? The problem is one group thinks they're more right than the other so they convert them. Encourage? Guidance? Those are just polished words. Your last statement just proves I'm right considering criminals get locked up/killed.

Life itself is hypocrisy. You either join the side that wins or die trying.

Day2Dream said:
You either join the side that wins or die trying.

NicoleB said:


But how exactly? I can't see any reason why this would be the case.

Zmffkskem said:

Bolded.

MADALIAN said:

What's more, to associate the "otaku" concept with social awkwardness is neither wrong, nor right, but I have a hunch that the people in question don't belong to either of them.(This phenomenon is similar to the Female Gamer thing: as in, usually when a girl declares to be a girl gamer, "believe it or not", she most probably sucks as a gamer. So I say, when somebody presents themselves as a friendless anime fan, he most probably has friends, but no personality.)

JReitan said:

I explained why to you before, Nicole. Excessive socialization is a good thing as long as one watches how and whom he socializes with carefully.