renders said: u are just a butthurt person,some animes are better in dub,like baccano,cowboy bebop,etc xD Suuure. |
yokaii said: I'm not really bothered by this, since I don't really watch these shows, and the dubbing seems perfectly fine for most 'adult' shows. What I do mind is that they're making a U.S. live action of Death Note. Just .. why? For the monies.  |
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InsaneMooseCat said: Hey! I'm just getting into the MAL forums, and I just want to hear your opinions on something that really annoys me. Its when americans come along and turn good anime bad. For example, Dragonball. Dragonball used to be good, but then they came along, censored it all and used it for children. They basically, took it, took a massive crap on it and then put it on children's channels. Also, with the over-enthusiastic child friendly voices on Pokemon and Sonic's voice in the animated sonic the hedgehog really annoys me. I'd love to hear your opinions, if you love it or hate it. This is all merely my opinion. :D As far as dubbing the shows.....I don't have a problem with it since i watch both dubs and subs anyway with no problems. So it doesn't bother me much. As an anime fan it makes me smile to see the industry strive in such a foreign continent. It makes me feel like the world has opened it's eyes to how much entertainment the anime universe can provide. Much better than Hollywood Blockbusters.....Don't get me wrong......I love watching movies, however compared to the storytelling and visuals that anime can provide then movies are really shadowed by anime's potential. To the point however, i do agree with you on that when someone like 4kids (the only licensor i know of), does the dubbing of a show and over-editing then yes it just makes it bad. Avatar the Last Airbender would have been good if it had not been for all of the workarounds needed because of the age group the show was targeted at. It's story wasn't bad, and the character development was nicely done i think. If it had a bit more mature elements then it would've been golden. Dragonball series....This is the big one....and Pokemon....Those are the major examples on why stuff like that shouldn't be allowed for American broadcast. If licensors are so afraid of it let FUNimation take the job....Sure they have censored SOME stuff....But the majority of their content comes out pretty raw and untouched aside from English translation. (aside from Nudity). All in all, i don't think bringing anime to America is a bad thing....But don't ruin it with overly-censoring needless things, and if you're going to do that then just don't touch the series...Let someone who has the balls to distribute it if you can't handle it. That's the way i see it. |
TheFactSheet said: well if there's a rant i can make about american anime invasion its voice acting. i dont like the sense of other nationalities trying the fck hard of their way to dubbed characters out of their reach. they just technically killed the drama or the scenes and making everything a joke. japanese anime characters should talk as japanese and not english thus keeping the story natural, original and realistic... honestly, subtitles are way better. preserve the originality and not destroying it. japanese folks knows whats best for their great products. well just my opinion for this topic... (anyway, as a hard coded otaku, the word cartoons is for american animation only, and anime is exclusively for japanese animation use only) I could go into such detail as to how arrogant this comment is.....But i'd rather not waste my time. |
| I just feel bad for those here in America that couldn't see DBZ and GT uncut with jap ost. |
Frdrz said: I just feel bad for those here in America that couldn't see DBZ and GT uncut with jap ost. Well, honestly now i wouldn't even watch Dragonball Z if it was aired uncut.....I loved it as a kid....But there are many more animes that i enjoy watching a lot more than i iever did Dragonball Z. Still though, i let my nephews watch anime on my Netflix all the time. My twelve year old Nephew loves Highschool of the Dead, and my other two Nephews....think one is nine and the other is seven, they like Elfen Lied and Inuyasha. Letting them watch shows like those have never had any adverse effects on them. Ofcourse they go outside and act like their favorite characters but is there really anything wrong with that? I just think that the United States censors things needlessly. |
Ahri said: I just think that the United States censors things needlessly. I agree with you 100%. We're so sensitive about things like violence these days, but I grew up watching slasher flicks when I was only 5. I'm not stupid enough to actually -do- it, so why do you have to censor me from it? Japan has the right idea - kids can handle a little bit of violence. It's really not that big of a deal. |
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SecretDuckie said: Ahri said: I just think that the United States censors things needlessly. I agree with you 100%. We're so sensitive about things like violence these days, but I grew up watching slasher flicks when I was only 5. I'm not stupid enough to actually -do- it, so why do you have to censor me from it? Japan has the right idea - kids can handle a little bit of violence. It's really not that big of a deal. It's because no one can do anything without some sort of logical meaning to it. It's them trying to put logic behind why something happened, and in many cases it comes to blaming any entertainment medium the person convicted used. It's a rough estimate. Reminds me when someone tried to get the Burnout series banned in the states because "It taught people how to crash cars". If you're seriously this worried about people learning to crash cars from a video game then i'm afraid to tell you but you've got bigger issues to deal with my friend. |
| Eh. Between the American kid with a Naruto headband and the Japanese man buying up naughty schoolgirl figurines, I can't tell which I want to strangle more. I wish the industry didn't have to focus on either of them, but then I'd be the one paying. |
NyuuuuSaaaan said: Eh. Between the American kid with a Naruto headband and the Japanese man buying up naughty schoolgirl figurines, I can't tell which I want to strangle more. I wish the industry didn't have to focus on either of them, but then I'd be the one paying. Do you also react in a similar way when watch a sporting event and see a guy painted head-to-toe in his favorite team's colors? Well, the team nor sport is focused on that extreme fan but they won't deny him access to the arena or not let him enjoy the sport just because he is too much of a fan. They, just like anime producers, have no control over how much of a fan a person becomes. There isn't even a correlation between the two. |
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Ahri said: SecretDuckie said: Ahri said: I just think that the United States censors things needlessly. I agree with you 100%. We're so sensitive about things like violence these days, but I grew up watching slasher flicks when I was only 5. I'm not stupid enough to actually -do- it, so why do you have to censor me from it? Japan has the right idea - kids can handle a little bit of violence. It's really not that big of a deal. It's because no one can do anything without some sort of logical meaning to it. It's them trying to put logic behind why something happened, and in many cases it comes to blaming any entertainment medium the person convicted used. It's a rough estimate. Reminds me when someone tried to get the Burnout series banned in the states because "It taught people how to crash cars". If you're seriously this worried about people learning to crash cars from a video game then i'm afraid to tell you but you've got bigger issues to deal with my friend. Censored or not, my parents still didn't let me watch Pokemon until I was in high school because of the Columbine Incident. I still sneaked into my parents' room to play Doom everyday since I was 4. I'm still a sweet little schoolgirl. America just has too many groups to offend. I understand that there is a limit to what is appropriate to show children, but not everything has to be completely watered down to nothing. For adults, I really don't see what the big deal is. I'd feel better about censored anime if American TV was held to the same standard. Every American show is insulting with the cheap comedy that they expect me to laugh at and over-the-top R scenes in just about everything. Meh. Anime maybe has more Pagan influence, but it's much cleaner from what I've seen. /shrugs. at least from what I can tell from stepping into a room with a TV on some local channel every seldom while... |
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Cathedral said: Ahri said: SecretDuckie said: Ahri said: I just think that the United States censors things needlessly. I agree with you 100%. We're so sensitive about things like violence these days, but I grew up watching slasher flicks when I was only 5. I'm not stupid enough to actually -do- it, so why do you have to censor me from it? Japan has the right idea - kids can handle a little bit of violence. It's really not that big of a deal. It's because no one can do anything without some sort of logical meaning to it. It's them trying to put logic behind why something happened, and in many cases it comes to blaming any entertainment medium the person convicted used. It's a rough estimate. Reminds me when someone tried to get the Burnout series banned in the states because "It taught people how to crash cars". If you're seriously this worried about people learning to crash cars from a video game then i'm afraid to tell you but you've got bigger issues to deal with my friend. Censored or not, my parents still didn't let me watch Pokemon until I was in high school because of the Columbine Incident. I still sneaked into my parents' room to play Doom everyday since I was 4. I'm still a sweet little schoolgirl. America just has too many groups to offend. I understand that there is a limit to what is appropriate to show children, but not everything has to be completely watered down to nothing. For adults, I really don't see what the big deal is. I'd feel better about censored anime if American TV was held to the same standard. Every American show is insulting with the cheap comedy that they expect me to laugh at and over-the-top R scenes in just about everything. Meh. Anime maybe has more Pagan influence, but it's much cleaner from what I've seen. /shrugs. at least from what I can tell from stepping into a room with a TV on some local channel every seldom while... Exactly, it's just the channels that decide to pick up anime. IE Cartoon Network (Not adultswim), WB <----- This one is just murder, and Nickelodeon....Even though the only one that airs there is Avatar, but still.....Avatar needs more mature themes and it'd be awesome. If you can have a child go through their ENTIRE life without ever hearing a curse word, then i'll have just won the lottery thirty times in a row. That being said, i don't think it's right for parents to shelter their children. That teaches them nothing, and it's just the easy way out. Just teach them based on the content that they are watching....It's really not that hard. My entire family, cousins included were all raised on being allowed to watch anything we liked.....There would be the occasional boob scene and the boys were told to look away but the parents didn't really care if they did or not. It was more of a joke than anything. The only thing that we were kept from is actual porn.....and that's fine with me....Not really something i'm interested in anyways, and keeping kids away from THAT material actually holds merit. I have a feeling in the near future we'll see more leniency on what is censored on tv, we're already seeing it already with cartoons able to use the word "sucks" now. With Adventure time getting a lot past the censors too and it's still pretty popular with kids and adults alike, it wouldn't be surprising to see stuff like that. Still however, even with that....We're still not at a good point when it comes to unnecessary censorships. This is just my opinion though. |
Anime_Name said: I don't mind sports fans since I don't deal with them often, nor do they affect my hobbies. But I suppose there is a line where excitement starts to look silly to me if I don't get the subject, or annoying if I dislike it. There's a matching line on the other end and I've crossed it splendidly. If I was the kind of person that can get hyped up over other people playing sports, I'd probably be more excited about anime too so your example is lost on me.Do you also react in a similar way when watch a sporting event and see a guy painted head-to-toe in his favorite team's colors? Well, the team nor sport is focused on that extreme fan but they won't deny him access to the arena or not let him enjoy the sport just because he is too much of a fan. They, just like anime producers, have no control over how much of a fan a person becomes. There isn't even a correlation between the two. But anyway, I do think there's a correlation between the industry and the fans. If I don't get the kind of anime I want, it's because people like me don't pay much, right? Otaku, on the other hand, pay, and that's why a lot of stuff is suited to their taste. Likewise, I'm sure a lot of American companies do what they do because it's just more profitable that way so buying stuff you like would probably help more than complaining about stuff you don't. That's one of the points I was making (complete with an example). The other is my opinion on the matter, which is that there's problems on both sides of the Pacific anyway so I don't feel like complaining about America in particular. |
NyuuuuSaaaan said: Anime_Name said: I don't mind sports fans since I don't deal with them often, nor do they affect my hobbies. But I suppose there is a line where excitement starts to look silly to me if I don't get the subject, or annoying if I dislike it. There's a matching line on the other end and I've crossed it splendidly. If I was the kind of person that can get hyped up over other people playing sports, I'd probably be more excited about anime too so your example is lost on me.Do you also react in a similar way when watch a sporting event and see a guy painted head-to-toe in his favorite team's colors? Well, the team nor sport is focused on that extreme fan but they won't deny him access to the arena or not let him enjoy the sport just because he is too much of a fan. They, just like anime producers, have no control over how much of a fan a person becomes. There isn't even a correlation between the two. But anyway, I do think there's a correlation between the industry and the fans. If I don't get the kind of anime I want, it's because people like me don't pay much, right? Otaku, on the other hand, pay, and that's why a lot of stuff is suited to their taste. Likewise, I'm sure a lot of American companies do what they do because it's just more profitable that way so buying stuff you like would probably help more than complaining about stuff you don't. That's one of the points I was making (complete with an example). The other is my opinion on the matter, which is that there's problems on both sides of the Pacific anyway so I don't feel like complaining about America in particular. I get what you're coming from....But if my significant other would like to dress up or go to a cosplay convention then i'm all for it. Otherwise i just feel uncomfortable and out of place, i'd need them there with me if i'm going to do that. But with them there, i feel really excited and it's a lot of fun as long as i'm in their company. That's the way i see it at least. Otherwise it's not all that fun, and really tiring making the costumes. |
| I dont get whats the big problem with censoring and all that because the people who really care about that stuff just find the uncut/original versions on the net |
darkninj12 said: I dont get whats the big problem with censoring and all that because the people who really care about that stuff just find the uncut/original versions on the net Well, there's the legality issue there. With more and more draconian regulations being pushed by governments, sooner or later, there's no more options. |
| Editing the shows to make it more suitable for kids is actually a smart move. After all, as kids I think we all LOVED Yu-Gi-Oh! and DBZ dubbed. The American OSTs and scripts made us love these shows as kids. It is because of that, that we grew up and are now able to look up the original versions! The only reason why the people complaining even know what anime is, is because of those edited shows! In fact, I will even go so far as to say that had I watched DBZ, and Yu-Gi-Oh with their original soundtracks as a kid, I with my 9-year-old attention span would have went straight to sleep. Never mind subtitled. deadleeserious said: Yu-gi-oh! is. They totally butchered that one. Not really. There is a reason it became the sensation it was. They did a lot right with Yugioh. They improved it for their intended audience and the result was actually pretty enjoyable. Verdale said: InfiniteRyvius said: UnrealPie said: I felt the same way with Death Note. What are you talking about? The line "I'll take this potato chip, AND EAT IT!!" line was the best performance ever obvs. You don't get that in sub that's for sure. HAHAHA. That's hilarious. I'm so glad I never watched the dubbed version of Death Note. I would have been thinking of it as a comedy the entire time. OK I was gonna leave this alone with the first DN dub jab but this last post kind of pissed me off. The Death Note english dub is a prime example of great superlative dubbing. Every character sounds how they should sound. Light's voice in particular, sounds just as intense and emotional as the manga character should sound; he makes his seiyu counterpart sound dull and boring by comparison. And the "Potato chip" line was the literal translation. The line was cheesy and nonsensical and would have sounded cheesy no matter what. And don't even get me started on the amazing job L's english voice actor and the others did. The DN dub is amazing, you guys honestly don't know what you're missing and you my friend, missed out on one of the best dubs ever. |
Armiga21 said: So basically because kid's are stupid, it's justification. Sorry, no, it's not. If a kid needs beautifully orchestrated music replaced with 4Kids shitty stock library of synthesized rap/rock, then that's their problem, and I doubt anyone in the fandom would miss them as a fan. Well, first of all; let me get this out of the way. 1. It is my understanding that anime that 4Kids licenses is typically..well...for kids anyway. It would be different if they were butchering Haibane Renmie, or Lain; more adult-orientated shows or shows that require profound thought. But don't kid yourself. If people are getting upset over the editing of kids shows, then maybe they wouldn't be missed as fans anyway. Armiga21 said: If a kid needs beautifully orchestrated music replaced with 4Kids shitty stock library of synthesized rap/rock You are demonizing 4Kids tracks and putting original scores on an unrealistically high pedestol. That's not to say that many Japanese scores aren't beautiful or that there aren't shitty 4Kids tracks. But there have been instances where "shitty stock" stuff actually created their own charm and fit nicely in their anime. Here is an example of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk7X1SDFM2A Armiga21 said: If you have to edit a show so much as to remove dozens of episodes and arcs, fuse episodes together to make up for all the stuff you removed, and overall change everything in the show. Then clearly the show isn't for them in the first place. EDIT: Again, I cannot think of a single example of this occurring in more.."serious" shows. If you are referring to things like Digimon or Pokemon then my reaction is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4VbOHvaPRc These are freakin Kids shows you are getting worked out over. And the irony is that they are likely the reason you, or a substantial part of the fanbase became fans in the first place. -Kid watches edited Pokemon or Digimon whatever. -Kids grows up few years later. - Fondly remembers watching Digimon as a kid. -Goes on internet looks it up. -Finds and watches original version with subtitles. -Gets into more anime. -Becomes a full fledged fan Where is the problem? |
Dayon1Jun 25, 2012 2:04 PM
| It's certainly not something I take kindly to. The same could be said of any director thinking a brand will be an easy sell and end up completely neglecting what made something special for its fans in the first place. |
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Armiga21 said: That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. Yes, 4Kids gets kids shows, but what constitutes a kids show in Japan is very different than one in America. That's why Bleach is currently airing on Adult Swim. It's a kid's show, but to air it uncut it has to air on an adult channel in America. Everything that 4Kids has aired is a Kids show. Armiga21 said: Considering kids shows like Naruto, Dragonball Z, One Piece and Bleach make up most of the western anime fandom, I think they actually will be missed. Most anime fans enjoy at least one of those shows, and kicking them out would be pretty stupid. These are entry-level shows. Things that people should start on. However, many people unfortunately do not leave the generic "shonen" bubble. If all somebody watches is Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, DBZ, at the exclusion of all else, then I even hesitate to call them an anime fan. They are ruining the fandom and I wouldn't miss them. That's not to say that I don't love watching good old DBZ from time to time. But for serious watching? You gotta grow up, dude. A quick look at your anime list confirms what I suspected; And the fact that you are 7 years my senior is kind of worrying. You desperately need to leave the shonen bubble. (Keep in mind, by "shonen" I am referring to the stereotypical/ generic action shows. There are many anime that may technically classify as "shonen" but whose content suggest otherwise.ie: FMA, Black Butler, Kenshin etc...) Armiga21 said: Here's a scene edited out of the 4Kids dub with very nice music to it. And I am not bashing the original music like you are the doing to the 4Kids one. I know it, and it sounds great. My favorite Japanese track is the transformation theme. I am saying the 4Kids track does have its own merits as well. Armiga21 said: You do realize you have an avatar of a kids show, right? You seem awfully dismissive about a show I presume you really like enough to make an avatar out of. Writing something off a 'a kids show, who cares' not only showcases your own close-minded ignorance, but it proves you can't be reasoned with if you refuse to consider the subject matter worth talking about fairly. Yes I do realize it. My point is not simply "Its a Kids show, who cares". My point is "It's a Kids show. The edits are for Kids. Kids love it. They later become fans. Who cares" And if their goal is to make Japanese anime into something American kids can love..Well from what I've seen, they are doing a great job at that. Armiga21 said: As for your argument of 'it got people into anime'. Good for it. That doesn't excuse the practice, though; no more than it's acceptable to kill a bunch of people in order to open up a bunch of new jobs for the unemployed. Not to mention we're talking about a market 10-20 years ago in the 90s. Nowadays, those kinds of dubs are obsolete. Kids get into anime through sites like Crunchyroll, which airs anime uncut. However, they still butcher the few anime they air on TV. OK. I just hope you realize that without those edited shows, a big portion of this thread; hell a big portion of MAL would be empty today. Armiga21 said: Kids get into anime through sites like Crunchyroll, which airs anime uncut. OK then tell me; what makes them search for Crunchyroll in the first place? |
| Could be |
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Everything that 4Kids has aired is a Kids show. But you are ignoring what the sentence is saying. Kids show in Japan frequently doesn't match up with what's a kids show in America. Naruto and Bleach worked fine at night on Cartoon Network but Naruto was completely not suited for Disney, thus the fans whining and Naruto's inevitable cancellation. . Same goes for the anime 4Kids picks up, some shows are okay and can work will others have to be changed so much they either fail or alienate anyone who isn't 5 years old. |
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Anime_Name said: Everything that 4Kids has aired is a Kids show. But you are ignoring what the sentence is saying. Kids show in Japan frequently doesn't match up with what's a kids show in America. Naruto and Bleach worked fine at night on Cartoon Network but Naruto was completely not suited for Disney. Same goes for the anime 4Kids picks up, some shows are okay and can work will others have to be changed so much they either fail or alienate anyone who isn't 5 years old. OK fair enough. I acknowledge that their selection is probably not perfect and it is possible a few shows that shouldn't be acquired, are. However I am skimming through their list of shows it looks like most of them do fit their demographic. |
Dayon1Jun 25, 2012 3:11 PM
Enjolras1830 said: me being a muisc gut the worst things US dubbers is murder the Music for DBZ to SM to Pocket monsters aomg so many others get there OST Mangled Just Cuse the US have no idea of what anison is [ oh yes they do DoCo Usa any one] Well....Yeah...But those series are old as dirt......It's quite rare to see the OST misplaced in an English licensed anime. They keep to the OST as far as i'm concerned. |
Armiga21 said: Just being on the internet. We're in a new era of technology. Surfing the internet has ranked higher than watching TV on studies about what people do in their free time. Where were used to channel surf, we now surf the web; and anime is everywhere on the web. Anime no longer needs television, despite all those people who whined and argued Toonami is needed to 'bring in fresh people'. Maybe in the pre-internt/2000s days, but not now. Have you never been through those "How did you get into anime" polls/threads? Armiga21 said: Every show picked up by 4Kids was butchered heavily. Every show. It's not open for debate. Even if it 'fits their demographic' they had to heavily alter it in order to do so. The shows are heavily edited; a fact that I never denied. What I said is that the shows that 4Kids "butchers" are (more often than not) KIDS shows to begin with. It would be generous to even say they were for 12 year olds. How does it feel knowing that you are in your 20s, but yet watch shows aimed that kids half your age? I hope you realize that you would be laughed at in Japan. Armiga21 said: Also, you're incredibly pretentious if you berate people for watching shounen. The real people we could do without in this fandom is people like you, who think they're better anime fans because they watch one show as opposed to another, as if there's some kind of tangible difference. If you could actually prove why one show is 'more anime' than another go ahead. I don't even know where to start.. Do you know why anime is not taken very seriously? Here is my take on it. There are a few major stereotypes as to what anime is. The first one is that it is all kids stuff. Anime is for kids. It is just cartoons of characters powering up, fighting, battling enemies, getting stronger, card games, tournaments, and so on. People don't know about Darker Than Black, about Lain, about EVA, about FMA, or any of that. When you say anime, people automatically think "Pokemon" or "Naruto". In other words, what we identify as the shounen genre. This is the very image that is perpetuated by people like you. When people ask you what you watch, you probably tell them one of your kiddy shows. They look it up, and thus the stereotype is continued. Without people like you, its possible that anime would be more popular; or at least treated with more respect. Imagine if the mainstream knew about Death Note? Or Darker Than Black? Or Clannad? Even Elfen Lied! Anime worth their time? Imagine how many people would fall in love these shows....fall in love with anime like we have?! I guarantee you anime would be a hit! Who knows, maybe Hollywood would get involved and we would see more quality dubs and less 4Kids-style ones? But as long as people like you keep enforcing the shonen image and spreading your kids shit, anime isn't going anywhere; forcing the rest of us to keep quiet or subtle about our hobby and prevent the fanbase from increasing with adults. Thanks. |
Armiga21 said: SecretAgent194 said: OK then tell me; what makes them search for Crunchyroll in the first place? Just being on the internet. We're in a new era of technology. Surfing the internet has ranked higher than watching TV on studies about what people do in their free time. Where were used to channel surf, we now surf the web; and anime is everywhere on the web. Anime no longer needs television, despite all those people who whined and argued Toonami is needed to 'bring in fresh people'. Maybe in the pre-internt/2000s days, but not now. Saying anime doesn't need television is an ignorant statement.Sure,anime online is great to satisfy this generation of fans,but how will the next generation of fans become fans & will the amount of new anime fans be enough to stabilize the industry then?I highly doubt the amount of people who became fans through word of mouth or just randomly wondering around on the internet will be good for the industry. The internet isn't a good way to get NEW people into anime since it might work only 1 out of 10 of the time.Plus,what exactly makes think that lot of average people are randomly searching up anime online.I'm pretty sure most people(in general) probably don't even know it's existence.And of the group that those know of it's existence,I bet a smaller amount are actually anime fans. TV is need for well-needed exposure.Airing anime or even anime commercials on TV networks with a good following will give it more exposure.The amount of people who could become interested in anime after seeing anime on TV is higher than the amount of people randomly wandering on the internet because not EVERYONE uses the internet for leisure.People do other stuff with their lives as well. |
| My Devianart Oh & Space Brothers is still the best anime ever,in my opinion.Even when competing with Attack on Titan. |
Enjolras1830 said: Ahri said: Enjolras1830 said: me being a muisc gut the worst things US dubbers is murder the Music for DBZ to SM to Pocket monsters aomg so many others get there OST Mangled Just Cuse the US have no idea of what anison is [ oh yes they do DoCo Usa any one] Well....Yeah...But those series are old as dirt......It's quite rare to see the OST misplaced in an English licensed anime. They keep to the OST as far as i'm concerned. Old as Dirt no all of them were made in my life time [ DBGT had close to a proper tanaltion og its proper op] why not Z or DB when they had been odnt just not in the US Not to menation the US even censor smoe manga Narutaru any one They were made in my lifetime as well. However i still think they are still old, and poor examples to use this day in age. Things have changed dramatically. |
SecretAgent194 said: Have you never been through those "How did you get into anime" polls/threads? Nope, and it doesn't matter. How old are the people in those polls? The people who grew up before the internet and watched anime on TV? Or current 8 year olds? Chances are they aren't the 8 year olds people claim get into anime through anime on TV. The shows are heavily edited; a fact that I never denied. What I said is that the shows that 4Kids "butchers" are (more often than not) KIDS shows to begin with. It would be generous to even say they were for 12 year olds. How does it feel knowing that you are in your 20s, but yet watch shows aimed that kids half your age? I hope you realize that you would be laughed at in Japan. Considering most of those shows are the mainstream kind, not really. Shows like One Piece, Detective Conan, Shin-chan, Pokemon, and the like are kid shows, yes, but they're enjoyed by people of all ages and are watched by the whole family. In Japan, mom, dad, and little Hiroshi tune in to watch Conan solve brutal murder mysteries every week. After all, 88% of the people who watch One Piece are over 18. Little kids are actually the minority.  I don't even know where to start.. Do you know why anime is not taken very seriously? Yeah.. about that... You list Death Note, Eva, and Fullmetal Alchemist.. those are all kids shows. Death Note ran in the same shounen magazine as Naruto and Yu-Gi-Oh did. They're all aimed at the same audence. Darker Than Black is the only adult show you listed, but just because it's aimed at adults doesn't mean it's better suited for adults. K-ON was also aimed at adults, and I'm sure even you would admit kids stuff like Conan/Naruto/FMA is more 'adult' than that show. You're basically saying "my kid show is better than your kid show" by trashing Naruto in favor of Death Note and FMA. The real reason anime isn't as big in America is because it's animated, it's a simple as that. America does not take animation seriously. If you tried to air adult anime on primetime Fox or ABC it would sink faster than the Titanic. The meanstream isn't going to care about animated dramas like Monster, because animation is for kids in America, plain and simple. No one is hurting anime's image in America, and nothing people do are going to change the public's minds that animation is primarily for children. Getting mad at people who watch shounen won't help. Jeddy017 said: Saying anime doesn't need television is an ignorant statement.Sure,anime online is great to satisfy this generation of fans,but how will the next generation of fans become fans & will the amount of new anime fans be enough to stabilize the industry then?I highly doubt the amount of people who became fans through word of mouth or just randomly wondering around on the internet will be good for the industry. Actually it is. Despite anime being less prevelant on TV, the fanbase still continues to grow. Anime conventions continue to increase in size every year, as so fansites and forums. More or more web space is being dedicated and about anime now. I can tell you right now, the majority of Naruto and Bleach fans were not watching the Disney and Adult Swim broadcast. They're part of the millions of people reading the scanlations and watching the fansubs. Only the little kids and causal non-fans watched the stuff on TV. All anime on TV is for these days is for poorly dub merchandise shows. Sort of like all the people who say anime is dying in America.. no, it's not. Licensing companies may die out, but most people don't buy anime. They torrent it and watch it online. All anime companies could die out and anime would still have the same size fanbase. It's not going anywhere. The TV and DVD market is irrelevant. |
OddjokeJun 25, 2012 7:30 PM
Armiga21 said: Jeddy017 said: Saying anime doesn't need television is an ignorant statement.Sure,anime online is great to satisfy this generation of fans,but how will the next generation of fans become fans & will the amount of new anime fans be enough to stabilize the industry then?I highly doubt the amount of people who became fans through word of mouth or just randomly wondering around on the internet will be good for the industry. Actually it is. Despite anime being less prevelant on TV, the fanbase still continues to grow. Anime conventions continue to increase in size every year, as so fansites and forums. More or more web space is being dedicated and about anime now. I can tell you right now, the majority of Naruto and Bleach fans were not watching the Disney and Adult Swim broadcast. They're part of the millions of people reading the scanlations and watching the fansubs. Only the little kids and causal non-fans watched the stuff on TV. All anime on TV is for these days is for poorly dub merchandise shows. Sort of like all the people who say anime is dying in America.. no, it's not. Licensing companies may die out, but most people don't buy anime. They torrent it and watch it online. All anime companies could die out and anime would still have the same size fanbase. It's not going anywhere. The TV and DVD market is irrelevant. If the anime fanbase is the same size 20 years from now,then you're right.Anime on the internet is better than anime on TV.FYI,by generations I meant decades for now,not a year or 2. So you're telling me people became fans through reading scanslation or watching fansubs of Naruto & Bleach,even though most may never have had previous knowledge or care of them,without ever have seeing them on TV.I thought most started out as "Only the little kids and causal non-fans watched the stuff on TV" then became fans because of how much they like what they saw on TV. As for the last paragraph,nice to see how much you actually care about the American anime industry & how much money it gives to Japan for anime. |
| My Devianart Oh & Space Brothers is still the best anime ever,in my opinion.Even when competing with Attack on Titan. |
| You all put very interesting points forward! The thing I have to say is its the fact that 4kids etc, are the ones making people think that only that is anime. A massive population of the dumb take the things they see on the TV ane believe it instantly, so if the only anime that is showed on TV is Pokemon, one piece and other animes that they have dubbed and butchered until they become nothing but another crappy morning cartoon for kids.They lose their meaning, and they die. So people believe that the animes that have been murdered and mutilated by 4kids are anime, and there is nothing else apart from that. Anyway, keep your views coming people! I've just read through them all and I'm in awe of the responses I'm getting. :D P.S Armiga21 and Ahri have made some of the most awesome points so far. Kudos.) :3 |
 |
| Well, to be fair some anime can be aired on normal kid TV(K-ON! being a example), without much editing. The censoring you're talking about is the network's fault. I can guarantee FOX wouldn't mind Mirai Nikki(Well, this would not be their first choice just an example) if they aired it(Just bleep fuck), and they would show the violence that was censored in Japan's version. Of course like someone else stated, they won't get any money off of it. They would have to promote the shit out of it to do so, which they're not going to do with the risk that is known as anime. Plus in most anime that is censored in Japan from what I'VE seen, Japan cares more about censoring blood than nudity & language. Vice versa in America's case. Censoring nudity & cursing takes priority over someone getting their brains splattered from a gun shot. Neither of their censoring makes sense quite frankly. |
AltaceJul 30, 2012 4:54 PM
 |
| I don't mind, I don't watch them. But this could bring the watchers to the "real" anime if they get interested. |
Armiga21 said: After all, 88% of the people who watch One Piece are over 18. I refuse to believe or accept this. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| More people >50 watch it than <18? It's a conspiracy I say. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| Well, One piece has been going for quite a long time. It's not surprising that they want to know how the story ends when they began it in their teens. So it makes sense for most of them to be 18 and older. |
 |
| Anything animated in America is seen as a kiddy show, lots of people won't even give it a chance. And if it's not a kiddy show, then obviously it's "Weird Japanese Porn". The only real choice a channel has if it wants to successfully release an anime is to go the kids route, and that means dumbed down, watered down stories that are fit for the Saturday morning block. Its easier to water down a show than risk being charged 250k per violation or having parent-lobby groups suing you into the ground for inappropriate content (Cats and Mice doing war reenactments is A-OK but god forbid you air violence with actual physical consequences) Sure there's adult swim and Toonami but even those are restricted to what they can feasibly license and air successfully. There's no real chance of American tv airing anime the way most of the anime fandom likes it, because most of the anime fandom doesn't watch network TV. There's no way to gauge a market if the audience just imports. It's a catch 22. We want better anime on American TV but can't get it, so we ship (stream/download) it in. But all of the time and money we spend shipping it in means we go under the major TV radar. |
| I personally don't care much what they do with the anime they air in America, the kids don't want to watch it with subtitles anyway. Unfortunately I'll agree with the censoring violence though, I don't even get it we air shows like South Park which have showed some very blatant, violent, and sexual content. Anyways I think this is a rather appropriate thread to discuss - American animation, pretty much disregarded amongst anime fans, and for perhaps an understandable reason. But when push comes to shove, America does make better animated series for kids (Batman: The Animated Series being the pinnacle of awesomeness). Also the rise of animated comedies can only be seen as a good thing, I mean they're seriously hilarious Americanized comedy tv series such as Archer and Venture Bros (and quite a few others) that are funnier than any Japanese anime I've seen. So putting all of that together I'd really like to say America is a distant #2 when it comes to animation, but we're not out of the game. What I'd really love to happen in to future is to see American writers/directors/producers/studios step up to the plate and churn out some good drama animation in the same league as Japanese anime. I mean why not right? Perhaps one day we will see a unique blend of Americanized anime that even us die-hard otakus can be proud of. And when it comes down to it I think there is definitely an untapped market for actual American drama animation series if somebody would just get it done. |
LayedBackJul 30, 2012 6:57 PM
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