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Why is it so hard to make genuine connection and friendships these days?

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Is it harder to make friends and genuine connections today than before?
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Jan 18, 5:02 AM

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Jul 2013
12188
I don't think it is hard to make genuine friendship these days. You just need to make friends with the right people.
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https://theendofindustrialcivilization.blogspot.com/?m=1
Jan 18, 7:43 AM
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Jul 2018
561913
Reply to Vasdeferens
@PeripheralVision i mean, sure, there are some niche situations where a genuinely likeable person struggles with forming human connection due to due to certain disorders, but i think that's only applicable to small minority of people who are lonely these days. since op didn't mention having any condition like that, it is fair to assume that what i said applies to him.

and here's the thing, when i said that i'm speaking from personal experience, i was referring to both myself being an unlikable person and the fact that i've spent a lot of time doomscrolling on online forums full of people like myself, such as subreddits full of lonely people or 4chan boards like /r9k/. interacting with people like that made it abundantly clear to me that people such as myself are friendless and alone simply because there's hardly any reason to be friends with us. we're neurotic, hard to relate to, have specific and unusual interests, and are socially inept. why would one want to be friends with such a person?

i also don't buy into a lot of mental disorders actually being real. there's a direct correlation between what psychology deems to be a disorder and what society deems normal behavior. stuff like homosexuality was once considered a disorder for no reason other than the fact that society disliked homosexuals. and it wasn't rigorous research that helped psychologists come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not a disorder, they simply stopped calling it a disorder because society started accepting homosexuals. that's just one random example. one of the things that supposedly makes something a disorder is whether or not it causes mental suffering, which i find hilarious. of course if society discriminates against certain people, they will end up suffering. it wasn't them being different that caused their suffering, but rather it was being discriminated against by society that caused them suffering. i think many (but not all) disorders work the same way. if society were more accommodating towards people with certain disorders, you would likely find that they no longer experience as much distress, and if they no longer experience that much distress, then is it truly a disorder? remember, distress and deviance are two of the 5ds of psychology.

but anyhow, all of that is just hypothetical. i don't actually think normal people have an obligation to accept people who aren't normal. here's a story of my own. i started working this summer because my mother got tired of me being a useless neet for several years. when i started working, i was initially placed in a position where i had to talk to my coworkers several times a day. there was a lot of friendly small talk involved between my coworkers. they tried to make friendly small talk with me as well, but they all sooner or later came to the conclusion that there was something innately wrong with me. i had weird mannerisms such as not making eye contact and hiding my face, i couldn't hold a conversation about normal topics because i knew nothing about them since all my knowledge comes from doomscrolling 24/7, i couldn't relate to any of them and none of them could relate to me, i'm stupid and i often misunderstood what they were asking me, i'm ashamed of myself so i often times gave them vague and nondescript answers about myself as a person because i feared judgment, i struggle to speak my native language because i spend all my free time on english (my native language is not english) sites, i have a very flat and monotone voice which puts people off, i'm unattractive physically which puts people off even more, etc. i could go on all day of all the things that were wrong with me and i honestly don't believe that my coworkers were wrong for eventually not wanting to associate with me. it's understandable why they would eventually avoid me. i was always very bad socially and years of social isolation as a neet made things even worse to the point where i think i'm beyond repair. i tried my hardest to talk to them but i couldn't. luckily, they later moved me to a different position that hardly involves any interaction. i just work by myself now and only have to talk to my boss very briefly like once a week. i will try to keep this job for as long as i can because i'd probably have a panic attack if i had to have a job that involves talking to people again. this whole experience made me feel like i'm not even a human being anymore. it made me feel terrible, but i still don't hold any resentment towards anyone because as you said, you have to offer something of value to someone to form meaningful relationships with them. i have nothing to offer. i ultimately just drag people down because i'm simply not normal. i have nobody to blame other than myself. i certainly won't blame stupid meme disorders for it.

with all of this in mind, i have chosen to isolate myself from everyone for the rest of my life. i will never seek any sort of human connection ever again, neither online or offline. the only person i will talk to properly in real life is my mother, and once she passes, i'll truly be alone. i will try to fill the void by posting stupid shit on online forums, doomscrolling, and consooming anime and video games, although doing that progressively getting harder due to my very shortening attention span. i'm not going to pretend that this doesn't hurt me emotionally because it does, but i think i can eventually rewire my brain to not crave any human connection. that's what i'm hoping for at least. i haven't had friends since the age of 12 and i'm still alive, so it must be possible.

anyway, i don't know why the fuck i wrote all this. everything i said probably sounds straight up idiotic. you can probably make a copypasta out of this.
@Vasdeferens

I agree on this. Adhd and autism are called "disorders", because the majority of people can't relate to someone with really passionate interests and different thinking patterns and ways of perceiving your environmental input in a more intense manner.
Also society makes it hard to fit into it, then it turns around and says it's only your fault. Although some modern parts of psychology are critizing this too, as much as they critized queerness as a "disorder" and I feel sorry for neurodivergent and queer people alike, who internalized a lot of hatred for not being "normal". As long it's not hurting someone, trying to force someone to normality only comes from a place of learned comformity.

As soon as we are useful for science and art tho, since lot of the "excentric" scientists and artists of the past and present, are believed they have been neurodivergent, suddenly the majority of people views the way your mind works, as useful.
A lot of people I know from university are for not neurotypical, but as long as you are contributing academically or with art etc., suddenly it's seen as a gift.

I disagree tho that people on 4chan can't find friends in their daily life, because they are "weird". If people are living on the countryside, yes maybe, but not finding a small group of other weird people you get along with among hundred of thousands and millions of people is nearly impossible... aside of course having anxiety to the point of not living the house anymore.
Users of 4chan are often just wildly misogynistic and everything else most people don't wish to have in their life.

I usually go to places where people share my interests, most niche interests are not that niche if you get to know the right people, and get along especially well with neurodivergent women and afab people.
Aside two autistic cis men I know in real life I really value (three if you include a former professor), they are often just talking over you and take pride in not caring for and hurting people.
A female friend had a partner, he yelled at her often and said "autistic people don't have control over their feelings" (sorry, bullshit), yet he never yells at his boss in his well-paying programming job, because he doesn't want to lose his job. Where does that sudden self-control stems from. She left him and now he apparantly tells everyone nobody likes autistic people, because he doesn't have friends either.

The nd female assigned people I've known are often very different to this, care for people and take more accountibility for their actions.
They were not coddled into infantilizing themselves and never taking accountability like lot of moms do with their autistic sons.
It's crazy, as a kid I've been told by a mom to be nice to her "poor" little, autistic boy, who pulled my hair and just insulted everyone in the worst way possible a couple of times a day. Ah yes, I just will let him do that lmao.

It's a complicated topic. Society per se is unfair to neurodivergent people (aside those who contribute something that is seen as useful or noteworthy) and makes it hard to fit in, but I've experienced it especially with autistic men that they were coddled since they had been a toddler and don't respect other people's boundaries and don't care for people, or are holding incredibly spiteful opinions about most people and certain groups of people just for being born like they are and not hurting anyone with their existence, which is hypocritic in itself.
Acceptance is always a two-way street. You don't have to immerge into society to the point of losing who you are, but everyone is hold to the same standard of being a decent human being.
removed-userJan 18, 8:09 AM
Jan 18, 8:01 AM
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Jul 2018
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@Vasdeferens There is not always a clear demarcation between disorder, disability, and the wide range of normality. Things like shyness are "normal", but can simultaneously be crippling, as are having niche interests or different communication styles. As for myself, I almost never go on a second or third date because there is a divergent set of interests between me and the people I am interested in. You cannot simply be a kind and reasonably good looking person and expect every relationship, platonic or otherwise, to fall into your lap.

Connection means so much more than that, and some people will be more "alone" (Not necessarily lonely) by virtue of these difference. Connections are rarer.

As LOB has stated before, they are a person who maintains certain types of friendships where they only talk to those friends a few times a year, and not everyone is interested in that type of friendship. I will call this a difference in communication, and truthfully one I am also partial towards. I agree that being extroverted does lend itself better to knowing more people and having more friendships, but extroversion should not be confused with kindness anymore than introversion or shyness with a lack thereof.

I am not trying to dismiss your life story and your experiences, which to be honest I barely skimmed through, but in my experience being nice, and by that I mean genuinely being kind and caring, is very important, but most people are not so bereft so as to want to be bombed with love in the absence of geeking out over the hobbies and sharing that with someone else. You can be kind and still weird, and people aren't going to be interested or even recognize that kindness over weirdness. It is unfortunate, in that case

I don't appreciate music, so I do not often date people where music is incredibly important to them but books aren't. I have difficulty interpreting verbalized language so I want someone who can communicate in a way that may be more text-based but still open to real-world experience.
Jan 18, 8:14 AM

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Sep 2018
14152
It depends on your looks. As you age it generally becomes more difficult since looks decline. The popular people are always the most attractive. The friendless are always sub fives. I would distinguish coworkers/classmates are not active friends. They are there by circumstance. If you visit them outside those hours you could call it friendship.
Jan 18, 8:34 AM
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Jul 2018
561913
Reply to removed-user
@Vasdeferens There is not always a clear demarcation between disorder, disability, and the wide range of normality. Things like shyness are "normal", but can simultaneously be crippling, as are having niche interests or different communication styles. As for myself, I almost never go on a second or third date because there is a divergent set of interests between me and the people I am interested in. You cannot simply be a kind and reasonably good looking person and expect every relationship, platonic or otherwise, to fall into your lap.

Connection means so much more than that, and some people will be more "alone" (Not necessarily lonely) by virtue of these difference. Connections are rarer.

As LOB has stated before, they are a person who maintains certain types of friendships where they only talk to those friends a few times a year, and not everyone is interested in that type of friendship. I will call this a difference in communication, and truthfully one I am also partial towards. I agree that being extroverted does lend itself better to knowing more people and having more friendships, but extroversion should not be confused with kindness anymore than introversion or shyness with a lack thereof.

I am not trying to dismiss your life story and your experiences, which to be honest I barely skimmed through, but in my experience being nice, and by that I mean genuinely being kind and caring, is very important, but most people are not so bereft so as to want to be bombed with love in the absence of geeking out over the hobbies and sharing that with someone else. You can be kind and still weird, and people aren't going to be interested or even recognize that kindness over weirdness. It is unfortunate, in that case

I don't appreciate music, so I do not often date people where music is incredibly important to them but books aren't. I have difficulty interpreting verbalized language so I want someone who can communicate in a way that may be more text-based but still open to real-world experience.
@PeripheralVision

I think you misunderstood something there. ^^'
I too don't want to have superficial friendships, they just happen with 9/10 people I talked to at parties, cons etc and feel rather guilty I don't talk to them more often although both parties want to (but at the same time they too want their alone time as much as I do), and only talk to a small group of friends regularly.
That's what I meant by "charisma makes people talking to you, it doesn't make friendships."
removed-userJan 18, 10:51 AM
Jan 18, 9:11 AM
Demon Goddess

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Aug 2012
2593
Reply to Tawaney
@Exhumatika Be fckin for real, you can have genuine face-to-face connections that fall apart due to many different reasons of which I think you already know. It has no reflection upon him. Secondly, what makes you think it won't last? If you don't ever try you won't know. You're just trying to be a jerk.
@Tawaney I mean he's not wrong I agree. My best friend and I been friends for 17 years. The connection is surface level now the genuine feels real but fake at the same.
Jan 18, 1:10 PM

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Oct 2022
333
Reply to MissHeed
@Tawaney I mean he's not wrong I agree. My best friend and I been friends for 17 years. The connection is surface level now the genuine feels real but fake at the same.
@MissHeed It was still genuine he's insinuating that it never was and that trying is pointless because it might not last. Like what.
Jan 18, 1:24 PM
Cat Hater

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Feb 2017
9906
Reply to Tawaney
@MissHeed It was still genuine he's insinuating that it never was and that trying is pointless because it might not last. Like what.
@Tawaney

Your main mistake is trying to understand a doomer and likely a troll, who is posting from what is probably his 3rd or 4th account on this website based on my memories. exhumatika's post was never meant to make sense - just bring negativity.
Jan 18, 1:32 PM
Demon Goddess

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Aug 2012
2593
Reply to Tawaney
@MissHeed It was still genuine he's insinuating that it never was and that trying is pointless because it might not last. Like what.
@Tawaney Most genuine friendships hardly go down that route. He's Slavic I'm Mexican our stances on friendship very far apart.
Jan 18, 1:55 PM

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Oct 2022
333
Reply to 149597871
@Tawaney

Your main mistake is trying to understand a doomer and likely a troll, who is posting from what is probably his 3rd or 4th account on this website based on my memories. exhumatika's post was never meant to make sense - just bring negativity.
@149597871 Incorrect, he may not have fed me but his friend sure did. If it brought negativity then I pointed it out nobody is winning or losing here. I think your concern is false.
Jan 19, 5:30 AM
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Jul 2018
561913
Reply to removed-user
@PeripheralVision

I think you misunderstood something there. ^^'
I too don't want to have superficial friendships, they just happen with 9/10 people I talked to at parties, cons etc and feel rather guilty I don't talk to them more often although both parties want to (but at the same time they too want their alone time as much as I do), and only talk to a small group of friends regularly.
That's what I meant by "charisma makes people talking to you, it doesn't make friendships."
LittleOwlbear said:
I think you misunderstood something there. ^^'
I too don't want to have superficial friendships, they just happen with 9/10 people I talked to at parties, cons etc and feel rather guilty I don't talk to them more often although both parties want to (but at the same time they too want their alone time as much as I do), and only talk to a small group of friends regularly.
That's what I meant by "charisma makes people talking to you, it doesn't make friendships."


Ah, I see. I meant like in the context of my statement that some people are fine with wanting to communicate more or to communicate less. There is not a highly specific standards of what friendships should be due to the high variably in human personality and temperament, wants and needs. I do think it depends. Actually asked a prospective date recently about this very topic.

I could understand Vasdeferen's position if he is an external observer looking at other people, from two angles. Firstly, people merely being friendly with one another, and though this is not friendship, it can influence the second aspects of assumptions, which is partly rooted in projection of an ideal.I certainly assumed and projected onto people, thinking they must have it better I do on a few superficial traits. Being a beautiful white person, for example, biases me heavily

Certainly I have been thought to have more friends than I actually do, and I think outward appearance and behavior could influence that assumption. We ask ourselves, or may be biased to ask ourselves, "How can they not have friends". We generally share an image of the ideal and successful person, or at least one aspect thereof. Social media has influenced this, with people posting pictures of themselves rock-climbing and then studying music all while attending Harvard, the appearance of breadth and depth that I argue could be considered charisma.

Not that I don't think you are not aware of this sempai, but I do believe that society has largely conflated being extroverted, or charismatic, and all associated traits like an ivy-league education as being an inherently good trait to have, as a purveyor of other positive qualities (Inteligence, kindness, etc) and by extension introversion is bad or has its issues, and Vas may have done the same. I don't think being outwardly nice means anything when it comes to forging meaningful relationships.
Jan 19, 5:46 AM
SuperEdgeLordGo

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Feb 2014
1370
Yes, because I am an introvert who was adopted by extroverts his whole life
Jan 19, 5:48 AM

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Nov 2017
830
90% of it is probably my own social ineptitude, but sometimes you just can't help but feel like a third wheel. I don't know how to get past that. I'd definitely like to make new friends IRL.
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