| So the only cute things are in this world is girly clothes, high heels, and long girly hair ? Wtf is with these people who are telling that he likes only cute things. He just wants to cross dress as a girl and that fact doesn't go away. These kind of thing are always there for people who are keep living in a dream of fairytale, in real life if someone tries to do things just like makoto, he will surely be a target of bulling, harrasment,abusement and every bad thing that can happen to a person. |
Aru_Kun07Jul 19, 11:56 PM
 Hello Aru is here |
Reply to RobertBobert
@traed Otokonoko has long been a real quasi-subculture in Japan. With its analogues for women who “love everything masculine” or people who do not want to limit themselves to genders at all. But this is still a question beyond identities. All these people may have completely different reasons for their lifestyle.
| @RobertBobert Yeah there can be different reasons. Do you have a source on people actually identifying with it outside of cosplayers? Since that was what I read before. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
Reply to traed
@RobertBobert
Yeah there can be different reasons. Do you have a source on people actually identifying with it outside of cosplayers? Since that was what I read before.
Yeah there can be different reasons. Do you have a source on people actually identifying with it outside of cosplayers? Since that was what I read before.
| @traed This is actually a very old thing that is easy to google. For example, Kotaku wrote about this back in 2011. Visual kei especially popularized this and you can find many musicians in it who live the "female role" while maintaining a male identity like Hizaki or Mana. The only caveat is that otokonoko is more of an otaku/millennial slang, people outside of Akihabara or Harajuku won't throw it around so easily I guess. But on topic, yes, I know of at least three otokonokos who either directly identified as transgender or implied it. |
 |
RobertBobert said: This is actually a very old thing that is easy to google. For example, Kotaku wrote about this back in 2011. Visual kei especially popularized this and you can find many musicians in it who live the "female role" while maintaining a male identity like Hizaki or Mana. The only caveat is that otokonoko is more of an otaku/millennial slang, people outside of Akihabara or Harajuku won't throw it around so easily I guess. But on topic, yes, I know of at least three otokonokos who either directly identified as transgender or implied it. Ah not very surprising. I knew that was a thing just I didnt know they called it otokonoko since some language blog kinda lead me to think it only applied to cosplayers. But uh it was difficult to hear over the voice over so i didnt quite catch it actually being said and a lot of context there was in entertainment which makes it a bit less clear if it is an entertainment thing like drag or broader in usage of the term otokonoko. But yeah closest term in English to otokonoko is gender queer I think which focuses less on identity and more on presentation. Aru_Kun07 said: So the only cute things are in this world is girly clothes, high heels, and long girly hair ? Wtf is with these people who are telling that he likes only cute things. He just wants to cross dress as a girl and that fact doesn't go away. These kind of thing are always there for people who are keep living in a dream of fairytale, in real life if someone tries to do things just like makoto, he will surely be a target of billing, harrasment,abusement and every bad thing that can happen to a person. Makoto also likes stationary and plushies and just kawaii stuff in general like food prepared to look cute. Kawaii culture originated from stationary supplies in the 70s first |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
Reply to traed
RobertBobert said:
This is actually a very old thing that is easy to google. For example, Kotaku wrote about this back in 2011. Visual kei especially popularized this and you can find many musicians in it who live the "female role" while maintaining a male identity like Hizaki or Mana. The only caveat is that otokonoko is more of an otaku/millennial slang, people outside of Akihabara or Harajuku won't throw it around so easily I guess. But on topic, yes, I know of at least three otokonokos who either directly identified as transgender or implied it.
This is actually a very old thing that is easy to google. For example, Kotaku wrote about this back in 2011. Visual kei especially popularized this and you can find many musicians in it who live the "female role" while maintaining a male identity like Hizaki or Mana. The only caveat is that otokonoko is more of an otaku/millennial slang, people outside of Akihabara or Harajuku won't throw it around so easily I guess. But on topic, yes, I know of at least three otokonokos who either directly identified as transgender or implied it.
Ah not very surprising. I knew that was a thing just I didnt know they called it otokonoko since some language blog kinda lead me to think it only applied to cosplayers. But uh it was difficult to hear over the voice over so i didnt quite catch it actually being said and a lot of context there was in entertainment which makes it a bit less clear if it is an entertainment thing like drag or broader in usage of the term otokonoko. But yeah closest term in English to otokonoko is gender queer I think which focuses less on identity and more on presentation.
Aru_Kun07 said:
So the only cute things are in this world is girly clothes, high heels, and long girly hair ?
Wtf is with these people who are telling that he likes only cute things. He just wants to cross dress as a girl and that fact doesn't go away.
These kind of thing are always there for people who are keep living in a dream of fairytale, in real life if someone tries to do things just like makoto, he will surely be a target of billing, harrasment,abusement and every bad thing that can happen to a person.
So the only cute things are in this world is girly clothes, high heels, and long girly hair ?
Wtf is with these people who are telling that he likes only cute things. He just wants to cross dress as a girl and that fact doesn't go away.
These kind of thing are always there for people who are keep living in a dream of fairytale, in real life if someone tries to do things just like makoto, he will surely be a target of billing, harrasment,abusement and every bad thing that can happen to a person.
Makoto also likes stationary and plushies and just kawaii stuff in general like food prepared to look cute. Kawaii culture originated from stationary supplies in the 70s first
| @traed Queer is more strongly associated with LGBTQ issues and, as far as I know, has a less clear reputation among older generations, so I think it all depends on the case. But yes, the main problem in the study is that despite the old traditions of theatrical travesty in Western culture, the Japanese are much more accustomed to playing with social gender roles. Third gender, Takarazuka, Kabuki, etc. |
|
Reply to traed
RobertBobert said:
This is actually a very old thing that is easy to google. For example, Kotaku wrote about this back in 2011. Visual kei especially popularized this and you can find many musicians in it who live the "female role" while maintaining a male identity like Hizaki or Mana. The only caveat is that otokonoko is more of an otaku/millennial slang, people outside of Akihabara or Harajuku won't throw it around so easily I guess. But on topic, yes, I know of at least three otokonokos who either directly identified as transgender or implied it.
This is actually a very old thing that is easy to google. For example, Kotaku wrote about this back in 2011. Visual kei especially popularized this and you can find many musicians in it who live the "female role" while maintaining a male identity like Hizaki or Mana. The only caveat is that otokonoko is more of an otaku/millennial slang, people outside of Akihabara or Harajuku won't throw it around so easily I guess. But on topic, yes, I know of at least three otokonokos who either directly identified as transgender or implied it.
Ah not very surprising. I knew that was a thing just I didnt know they called it otokonoko since some language blog kinda lead me to think it only applied to cosplayers. But uh it was difficult to hear over the voice over so i didnt quite catch it actually being said and a lot of context there was in entertainment which makes it a bit less clear if it is an entertainment thing like drag or broader in usage of the term otokonoko. But yeah closest term in English to otokonoko is gender queer I think which focuses less on identity and more on presentation.
Aru_Kun07 said:
So the only cute things are in this world is girly clothes, high heels, and long girly hair ?
Wtf is with these people who are telling that he likes only cute things. He just wants to cross dress as a girl and that fact doesn't go away.
These kind of thing are always there for people who are keep living in a dream of fairytale, in real life if someone tries to do things just like makoto, he will surely be a target of billing, harrasment,abusement and every bad thing that can happen to a person.
So the only cute things are in this world is girly clothes, high heels, and long girly hair ?
Wtf is with these people who are telling that he likes only cute things. He just wants to cross dress as a girl and that fact doesn't go away.
These kind of thing are always there for people who are keep living in a dream of fairytale, in real life if someone tries to do things just like makoto, he will surely be a target of billing, harrasment,abusement and every bad thing that can happen to a person.
Makoto also likes stationary and plushies and just kawaii stuff in general like food prepared to look cute. Kawaii culture originated from stationary supplies in the 70s first
| @traed in the end he is still cross dressing. |
Hello Aru is here |
Reply to Bastiono
I think it's pretty clear that he identifies as male. He may not like that locker at school for his for his 'girly uniform' and such, but he's not kicking and screaming about having to appear male at home.
Episode 3 showed that he has his dad on his side, so he effectively had the choice to be recognized as female, but chose not to, as opposed to Ryuuji who seems to be conflicted.
Personally, I had a lesser degree of the same thing in highschool, just because I favor 'girly' things and reject what's seen as manly, doesn't change the fact that I'm not ashamed to identify as male
Episode 3 showed that he has his dad on his side, so he effectively had the choice to be recognized as female, but chose not to, as opposed to Ryuuji who seems to be conflicted.
Personally, I had a lesser degree of the same thing in highschool, just because I favor 'girly' things and reject what's seen as manly, doesn't change the fact that I'm not ashamed to identify as male
| @Bastiono The fact he has to deal with not being able to present femininely at home doesn't make it clear how he identifies. Considering he's labeled a boy/male by default on account of his biological sex, I would argue it's not clear at all unless we're privy to a nuanced conversation about identity/dysphoria, but I would expect this to be a series that doesn't even consider that side of the equation, as is the norm. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Reply to Tomara
So much nonsense and speculation.. Read the manga or watch the anime entirely first and then make your own conclusions instead of projecting yourself and your own personal values on a fictional character before the show is even finished. Also someone mentioned that the author told in social media that Makoto just likes girly things, shouldn't we just trust author in this and not the Twitter-mindset?
| @Tomara It's perfectly OK to speculate about what might happen in a series, many people enjoy that. You want people to read the source material or watch the entire anime before having any thoughts about it? Even worse, you want people to follow the logic of spoilers given by the author rather than having their own thoughts/opinions about a show while watching it? |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
| *sigh* This is bothering and upsetting how western people are weirdly obsessed with trans. Both who hates them and wants them. They will dial literally every situation into 'trans topic'. It's not the first time media starts the theme of 'repressive society gender norms' and people go ahead and make it a trans theme. They can exist at the same time, but it's still a separate issue and people who want trans rep push any other variation and problem away despite canon not giving them that option. Makoto was clearly bothered by those boys comment of him 'playing basketball with girls'. He identifies as a boy and dislikes it being ignored. He likes cute things, he likes feminine things, but the society does not accept him the way he is. It makes it a problem for a cis boy not fitting the forces norms of what he is *supposed* to look like and do. It's a society problem that forces strict gender binary on people. Making it shameful for boys liking 'girl things/hobbies/colors' and vice versa. And I would really appreciate if queer people do not support gender binary 'but in the other way'. It's honestly dishearteing how they support this oppression when it benefits them. They hate when society forces girls to present their identity with girly things only, but then turn around and label every guy liking girly things as transwoman. |
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