Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
New
What did you think of this episode?
DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
Pages (2) « 1 [2]
Dec 7, 2017 1:57 PM
Offline
Dec 2017
2
Hello, i Really do have some questions about this Overall very Good Episode.

First of all i didn't understand Why vermouth organized the Party at the Ship in the First Place??? Sending the letter to shinichi, but adressing it to conan meant that she already knew that conan and shinichi are the same person. If she wanted to Split conan from haibara, she still would have been forced to deal with professor agasa, so that's no reasoning for the party!!!

And why did conan care about the party anyway, even to the Point where he extra called heiji for help? I mean he already knew that vermouth will try to kidnap haibara.

Why did heiji disguise as shinichi? I just can't find any reason to how that contributed to conan's plan.

Last but not least: Why did she invite shinichi and Mouri And told Vodka to observe the party? Did she try to lure shinichi out although she appereantly knew his Secret anyway and kept conan's True identity a Secret in the end anyway???

Lots of questions regarding the Ship part and the Overall reasoning of vermouth to organize that party.

I Hope i overlooked the answer to these questions auf that you guys Can end my headache!!!
Dec 8, 2017 8:50 PM
Offline
May 2017
96
Maroof-Gmbh said:
Hello, i Really do have some questions about this Overall very Good Episode.

First of all i didn't understand Why vermouth organized the Party at the Ship in the First Place??? Sending the letter to shinichi, but adressing it to conan meant that she already knew that conan and shinichi are the same person. If she wanted to Split conan from haibara, she still would have been forced to deal with professor agasa, so that's no reasoning for the party!!!

And why did conan care about the party anyway, even to the Point where he extra called heiji for help? I mean he already knew that vermouth will try to kidnap haibara.

Why did heiji disguise as shinichi? I just can't find any reason to how that contributed to conan's plan.

Last but not least: Why did she invite shinichi and Mouri And told Vodka to observe the party? Did she try to lure shinichi out although she appereantly knew his Secret anyway and kept conan's True identity a Secret in the end anyway???

Lots of questions regarding the Ship part and the Overall reasoning of vermouth to organize that party.

I Hope i overlooked the answer to these questions auf that you guys Can end my headache!!!

I will answer your question to the best of my knowledge of this episode. From what I remember vermouth had the boat party to lure conan and the main cast away from haibara, she needed everyone gone to get haibara to come out and Agasa wouldn't really be able to do much even if he knew at the time (I can't remember if he did or not).
Conan cared about the boat party because he wanted to make sure everyone who went was safe, which meant he wanted heiji to go instead of Shinichi so be could protect haibara, mislead vodka in thinkin Shinichi is still dead and face off with vermouth.
Heiji disguised as Shinichi because technically Shinichi was invited not Heiji (if i remember that correctly maybe both were), and Conan needed him to be Shinichi to make vermouth unaware that haibara wasn't haibara.
She wanted Shinichi and Mouri there to be away from haibara, in doing so she needed Vodka to look over the boat party to kill someone if needed. She is implied to know that Conan and Shinichi are the same person and was hoping to get him away from Haibara to kidnap her, and she is keeping his identity a secret from the organization because she feels indebted to him for saving her life, maybe something to do with Yukiko, or (this my own theory) she isn't completely evil and wants to see if Conan can actually bring down the organization and she will possibly help him later on if it looks like he will be successful. I hope this helped you.
Dec 8, 2017 9:34 PM
Offline
Dec 2017
2
Pichufreak100 said:
Maroof-Gmbh said:
Hello, i Really do have some questions about this Overall very Good Episode.

First of all i didn't understand Why vermouth organized the Party at the Ship in the First Place??? Sending the letter to shinichi, but adressing it to conan meant that she already knew that conan and shinichi are the same person. If she wanted to Split conan from haibara, she still would have been forced to deal with professor agasa, so that's no reasoning for the party!!!

And why did conan care about the party anyway, even to the Point where he extra called heiji for help? I mean he already knew that vermouth will try to kidnap haibara.

Why did heiji disguise as shinichi? I just can't find any reason to how that contributed to conan's plan.

Last but not least: Why did she invite shinichi and Mouri And told Vodka to observe the party? Did she try to lure shinichi out although she appereantly knew his Secret anyway and kept conan's True identity a Secret in the end anyway???

Lots of questions regarding the Ship part and the Overall reasoning of vermouth to organize that party.

I Hope i overlooked the answer to these questions auf that you guys Can end my headache!!!

I will answer your question to the best of my knowledge of this episode. From what I remember vermouth had the boat party to lure conan and the main cast away from haibara, she needed everyone gone to get haibara to come out and Agasa wouldn't really be able to do much even if he knew at the time (I can't remember if he did or not).
Conan cared about the boat party because he wanted to make sure everyone who went was safe, which meant he wanted heiji to go instead of Shinichi so be could protect haibara, mislead vodka in thinkin Shinichi is still dead and face off with vermouth.
Heiji disguised as Shinichi because technically Shinichi was invited not Heiji (if i remember that correctly maybe both were), and Conan needed him to be Shinichi to make vermouth unaware that haibara wasn't haibara.
She wanted Shinichi and Mouri there to be away from haibara, in doing so she needed Vodka to look over the boat party to kill someone if needed. She is implied to know that Conan and Shinichi are the same person and was hoping to get him away from Haibara to kidnap her, and she is keeping his identity a secret from the organization because she feels indebted to him for saving her life, maybe something to do with Yukiko, or (this my own theory) she isn't completely evil and wants to see if Conan can actually bring down the organization and she will possibly help him later on if it looks like he will be successful. I hope this helped you.


Thank you very much!!! That Confirms my assumptions and makes for the Most part a lot of sense :D (they didn't mention those explanations specifically)
Tbh though it still is weird to me, because the professor could have just driven haibara to the Hospital if he didn't Wait in the Forest, but i guess vermouth was more confident in dealing with him than with shinichi.
So again Thank you for you're very helpful answer!
Maroof-GmbhDec 8, 2017 9:37 PM
Mar 5, 2019 1:49 PM
Nekogirl~

Offline
Mar 2014
3005
best ep so far really loved it


Mar 26, 2019 4:47 PM

Offline
Sep 2011
438
During the first one hour, I was like "meeh this is getting annoying, another unnecessary murder, i need more BO stuff." But second part was absolutely wicked. Some huge pieces are brought together. That revelations about Vermouth was shocking.

Wish there could be more Gin scenes though, that guy still is a complete mystery. At least we learnt he doesnt remember the names and faces of the people he killed but of course, this info alone doesnt feel enough at all after all these years. Also, that would be nice to see Calvados' face too. That Akai just assuming he commited suicide was not realistic.

That the murderer, which Shinchi and Ran encountered in New York was actually Vermouth, was really unexpected. This brings so many questions. Besides, thanks to them saved her ass back in New York, Vermouth kept Conan alive despite having a clear chance to kill or hostage him. Well, I didn't really like that part much. So many BO members have already been assassinated due to their questionable loyalty/uselessness/knowing too many things. So naturally we, the watchers of the anime, is expecting the remaining members of the organisation to be the real, cruel, smartest, callous ones. But seems like Vermouth is not black enough. It would have been much nicer to see if Conan could find a way out and run away instead.
ember-moonMar 27, 2019 9:53 AM
Mar 27, 2019 12:13 AM

Offline
May 2018
12400
bulk_density said:
But seems like Vermouth is not black enough. It would have been much nicer to see if Conan could find a way out and run away instead.

Vermouth being not as murderous as Gin and having her own agenda which is a bit different than BO's is a plot point not just convenience for the MC.
May 10, 2019 3:05 PM

Offline
Apr 2014
596
Epic and mind blowing.
"You don't become Hokage in order to be acknowledged by the village.
The one who is acknowledged by everyone, is the one who becomes Hokage."
Uchiha Itachi, Naruto Shippuden
Sep 28, 2019 5:26 PM
Offline
Aug 2019
16
Loooooovvvvvveeeeddd iiiit but I'm curious on one thing though.. is this canon?
Sep 30, 2019 11:50 PM

Offline
May 2018
12400
Kdranime said:
is this canon?

Yes it is.
You can see here - https://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Anime .
All episodes that don't have "TV Original" in the "Manga source" column are canon.

Also the 21-th movie - The Crimson Love Letter.
Recently the manga confirmed that the events in it are canon.
(Most of the movies are non canon but sometimes give hints about canonic stuff.)
alshuSep 30, 2019 11:54 PM
Mar 1, 2020 11:56 AM

Offline
May 2015
239
It was a fantastic episode. Yeah the POV kept switching a lot but that made the puzzle all the more interesting to piece together. Hopefully in the future Conan will actually corner the Black Organization. He got so close but outsmarted by Vermouth.
Sep 3, 2020 11:31 PM
Offline
Oct 2016
26
Amazing episode!

The murder part was a bit flaky though. Are you really going to tell me it all hinged on

- a magic sleeping gas that strong enough to knock somebody out in a non-enclosed bathroom stall, but not strong enough to knock out the person who released it or others in the same bathroom?
- Somebody not realizing that they are wearing a giant mask containing a microphone, a speaker, a transmitter, a reciever, big enough to cover a tie, and not even brush against it while drinking a cocktail
- glass not getting brushed off of shoes when running all about a ship, climbing rope but getting brushed off when standing on wood


Pretty weak murder, but the pacing and reveals were great for the rest of the episode!
May 12, 2021 11:38 PM

Offline
Jan 2016
646
What a crazy episode this was! So much to unpack here. I freaking knew the bandaged person pretending to be Shinichi was actually Heiji, but when he removed his bandages I got tricked again into thinking it was actually Shinichi.
The Vermouth twist and Jodie twist was insane. The fact that they looked so similar in the dark scenes got us good. I knew Dr.Araide has something to do with this because they put him in the OP and it literally gave it away which was so stupid for the anime producers to do, but I guess the twist was that this wasn’t the real Araide. And ofc Conan, Haibara and Ran all were unconscious during the important parts and half the things that happened won’t be seen by them which irks me. *Also remember kids, you can’t trust anyone now because they could all be Vermouth.*

Anyway, idk how I can go back to the average murder episodes now. I need more canon plot!
 
Oct 16, 2021 6:43 PM
Offline
Jul 2018
561867
Yeah, no way the guy wouldn't notice the werewolf mask.
But besides the not-so-great reasoning from the ship murder, really good episode!
removed-userOct 16, 2021 6:47 PM
Mar 5, 2022 11:35 AM
Offline
Jul 2020
468
Really awesome chills all around
Mar 16, 2022 11:41 PM
Offline
Feb 2022
48
El mwjor especial de todos
Mar 21, 2022 7:22 AM
Offline
Jun 2020
214
Holy hell that plot twists are amazing. Didn't expect anything at all.
I thought I knew who's who but no.... what an amazing episode. The best one so far
May 12, 2022 8:01 PM

Offline
Nov 2021
495
HOLY MOLY PEPEEONI!! That was a lot to take! I was wrong all this time.
I genuinely thought Ms. Jodie and Vermouthwhatsoever are the same people!! I was so sure about that! and apart from that, Ms. Jodie is an FBI agent! Never thought of that. I was right about The dude being related to Ms. Jodie but not like that. They are both agents!

To defeat a huge organization, u need help from lots of people and I am glad Conan asked for help. Heiji being disguised had me surprised. Cuz I thought Conan took a pill...
So many twists! had me wth for seconds!


Sep 10, 2022 8:53 AM
Offline
Apr 2015
1
biggest early development
Sep 17, 2022 11:26 AM
Offline
Aug 2022
3
This is the best Black Organization episode I've ever watched!
Jul 11, 2023 6:17 AM

Offline
Oct 2021
116
OK, 
wtfffffffffffffffffff.

Mannn this was insane. I hearby declare this show a masterpiece
Aug 25, 2023 11:35 AM

Offline
Nov 2017
726
WOW this episode is AMAZING! There is a lot of action and revelation and I had always believed that Jodie-sensei was one of the antagonists, but it turns out that she isn't! So, I'm really glad that she's a protagonist! As for the story involving Jodie and Vermouth! 😍 It's the best episode so far!
Nov 13, 2023 10:35 PM
Offline
Aug 2021
35
Literally this is the best Conan episode so far in the series
May 29, 2024 7:31 PM

Offline
Jul 2020
738
WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!! What an outstanding episode!!! Easy 10/10 and probably the best of the whole series.

The case in the first half was fairly typical, although with the added intensity of Haibara's ongoing killing, Conan and Ran's disappearance and the re-emergence of Shinichi. I did pick the wolf mask guy as the killer because of the bathroom scene but the whole explanation of the switching mask was a little much for me to guess.

The second hour was just pure perfection! So Jodie and Akai are actually FBI agents working to take out the Black Organization whilst the American actors were actually Vermouth. It also seems Vermouth has the ability to remain youthful and was behind the killing of Jodie's parents. I was suspicious of I Dr. Araide since he first showed back up but I didn't realise he had become an entirely new person! I also had figured that Akai was good since they showed him as an FBI back in the flashback case, but honestly I had no idea about Jodie. I do find it extremely interesting that Vermouth isn't totally loyal to the Black Organization, by choosing to keep Conan's identity a secret.

For now it seems like everyone knows Haibara's identity, but only Vermouth knows Conan's outside of the usual friends of Shinichi. No clue how they are going to keep safe with Haibara working with them given the Black Organization will presumably be back for her soon. I also am hoping that the FBI will be back working with Conan and company in future episodes because they are really interesting characters and are even more so now that we have begun to find out a bit more about them.

These specials are becoming the highlights of the whole series. Looking forward to watching the next one.
InfinityDude88May 29, 2024 7:35 PM
Sep 5, 2024 8:24 PM
Offline
Jul 2024
62
Insane number of plot twists and a pretty satisfying conclusion to the Vermouth arc. Only downside is the upcoming episodes look terrible in comparison.
Sep 17, 2024 8:29 AM

Offline
Oct 2021
1687
That was an absolute masterpiece of an episode, those plot twist after twist was insane like dammm how throughly shinichi made those plan and backup plan for it. Vermouth and jodie confrontation was epic but shuichi akai coming up in right time while blasting that shotgun through vermouth was was legendary. The way vermouth acted toward conan feels like we're on a ride to see more of these two's relationship especially with that silver bullet thing.... nonetheless this episode was way beyond epic, a movie experience even. 5/5
Dec 20, 2024 5:15 AM
Offline
Nov 2022
445
God I feel like I'm the only one who disliked this. If someone were to take away all the scenes where it's basically just a 10 minute stare off with each other this movie would've been only 1 hour long. I mean, how long does it take to kill someone with a gun and also miss so horrendously? & the plot twists were just random and half of them were predictable, they just kept pulling a "AHA! But instead..!" moment just for the sake of it, y'know there is such a thing as *too* many plot twists. Don't get me started on Haibara just running to the scene with no prior plan and her wishfully thinking that the BO would just "let the others go", and instead take her? Is this a make a wish foundation bro? Why would a dangerous organization just let people who know about them go?. The action in this movie was so painfully slow, you can really tell when they don't want to kill any important character because they kept stretching the talking scenes and the intervals between those were so long and for what. Oh and btw, wth was that murder plan in the ship all about? I could literally forgive the part where he somehow didn't know he had a wolf mask on but what about when the wolf mask was taken off of him while he was 100% awake, he didn't feel the weight of it being taken off??. And to top it all off, Jodie and Vermouth keeping pictures of Ran/Shinchi/Haibara on their wall and or mirrors? What is the thought process? Do they just not realize that they are people who might be getting investigated at any time? Omg so many inconsistencies and suspense plot for no reason. No wonder the anime has 1k episodes, they realized they can milk this by doing things painfully slow, and not even a good type of slow where things actually seem logical.
Dec 20, 2024 5:37 PM
Offline
Jun 2021
657
Reply to ZZZ111000
God I feel like I'm the only one who disliked this. If someone were to take away all the scenes where it's basically just a 10 minute stare off with each other this movie would've been only 1 hour long. I mean, how long does it take to kill someone with a gun and also miss so horrendously? & the plot twists were just random and half of them were predictable, they just kept pulling a "AHA! But instead..!" moment just for the sake of it, y'know there is such a thing as *too* many plot twists. Don't get me started on Haibara just running to the scene with no prior plan and her wishfully thinking that the BO would just "let the others go", and instead take her? Is this a make a wish foundation bro? Why would a dangerous organization just let people who know about them go?. The action in this movie was so painfully slow, you can really tell when they don't want to kill any important character because they kept stretching the talking scenes and the intervals between those were so long and for what. Oh and btw, wth was that murder plan in the ship all about? I could literally forgive the part where he somehow didn't know he had a wolf mask on but what about when the wolf mask was taken off of him while he was 100% awake, he didn't feel the weight of it being taken off??. And to top it all off, Jodie and Vermouth keeping pictures of Ran/Shinchi/Haibara on their wall and or mirrors? What is the thought process? Do they just not realize that they are people who might be getting investigated at any time? Omg so many inconsistencies and suspense plot for no reason. No wonder the anime has 1k episodes, they realized they can milk this by doing things painfully slow, and not even a good type of slow where things actually seem logical.
@ZZZ111000
Did you predict :
- Vermouth was Araide ?
- Vermouth was the serial killer saved by Shinichi and Ran ?
- Sharon and Chris were the same person ?


That's the type of plot twist that explains why DC is so long and it just started.
Dec 21, 2024 12:28 AM
Offline
Nov 2022
445
Reply to groudonvert
@ZZZ111000
Did you predict :
- Vermouth was Araide ?
- Vermouth was the serial killer saved by Shinichi and Ran ?
- Sharon and Chris were the same person ?


That's the type of plot twist that explains why DC is so long and it just started.
@groudonvert Hello again haha, Vermouth being Araide was my first guess because I felt as if they were trying to trick us a lot by putting Jodie/Vermouth back to back and Araide had so little mention as a character either way. Yeah, I didn't predict the other two (can't catch them all). The plot twists seemed like just information being given not actual twists, you obviously knew these scenes were going to be mentioned at a later time so that already ruins half of the surprise. All in all, it's whatever, one episode won't ruin my liking for the series ヾ( ̄▽ ̄)
Dec 21, 2024 5:36 AM
Offline
Jun 2021
657
Reply to ZZZ111000
@groudonvert Hello again haha, Vermouth being Araide was my first guess because I felt as if they were trying to trick us a lot by putting Jodie/Vermouth back to back and Araide had so little mention as a character either way. Yeah, I didn't predict the other two (can't catch them all). The plot twists seemed like just information being given not actual twists, you obviously knew these scenes were going to be mentioned at a later time so that already ruins half of the surprise. All in all, it's whatever, one episode won't ruin my liking for the series ヾ( ̄▽ ̄)
@ZZZ111000
Sheron = Chris is something you can see coming (in theory).
Same for the serial killer (at the end of the New York case, Conan in the present was suspicious there was something fishy.
Feb 10, 1:21 AM
Offline
Feb 2021
1
best ep wver watch
Apr 28, 3:16 AM

Offline
Dec 2024
174
It's been a long time since we had an episode dedicated to the Black Organization, especially a 2-hour special.

I had high expectations for this episode, considering its length.

Ran and Sonoko disguising themselves as Gin and Vodka at the beginning of the episode was hilarious.

I knew Haibara would do something reckless, but at least Ran stepped up as a big sister for her. I hope Haibara gets better later on.

As for Vermouth, I thought she was around 24-26, but it turns out she's an old hag, bruh. However, I have to admit she carried this episode. I also think she has a crush on Kudo and a soft spot for Ran.

Regarding Jodie, I already knew she was an FBI member, so that wasn't a surprise.

I don't think Ran can see Conan and Haibara in a normal way anymore; she'll act suspicious from now on.

This episode didn't provide enough information to understand the organization's motives. At least for now, it's not sufficient.

Even if Kudo got antibiotics for the drugs, I don't think it will be over as long as this organization exists.
May 23, 11:43 AM
Offline
Mar 2023
1
This is the best episode after 344, lots of plot twists, it's the best.
May 30, 2:01 PM
Offline
Dec 2022
3
finally some real action and so many twists>.< love this 2 hour episode 😘🤌🏻
Sep 2, 10:24 AM

Offline
Aug 2016
1021
Splendid special episode, and I completely understand most of it, but I’m left with one big question, Why exactly did Sharon call Shinichi “the silver bullet she’s been waiting for to take the Black Organization down in one shot”? Isn’t she a member of the Black Organization herself? Then why say that?

Does she not actually like what she does? If so, why did she get involved in the first place? I understand not being able to leave, since she’d probably face the same treatment as Shiho, the marvelous traitor treatment. But still, if she didn’t like it, why join in the first place? I genuinely don’t get it.

Or is she just depressed like Shiho for some reason? If anyone has an explanation, I’d really appreciate it. Other than that, I’m glad we finally got Jodie’s backstory, but that would put Sharon in her mid-thirties, since she was already an adult when Jodie was but a child.
Pages (2) « 1 [2]

More topics from this board

Poll: » Detective Conan Episode 494 Discussion

Fronzel - Feb 5, 2012

10 by ZZZ111000 »»
6 hours ago

Poll: » Detective Conan Episode 493 Discussion

Fronzel - Feb 4, 2012

6 by ZZZ111000 »»
7 hours ago

Poll: » Detective Conan Episode 492 Discussion

IntroverTurtle - Dec 17, 2013

5 by ZZZ111000 »»
7 hours ago

Poll: » Detective Conan Episode 455 Discussion

Fronzel - Dec 17, 2011

5 by Skuvan »»
Yesterday, 4:01 AM

Poll: » Detective Conan Episode 491 Discussion

Tendou-kun - Aug 6, 2013

11 by ZZZ111000 »»
Yesterday, 1:42 AM
It’s time to ditch the text file.
Keep track of your anime easily by creating your own list.
Sign Up Login