How the f*ck do Users tolerate digital shit with jitters, Judders, and Stutters without getting a headache?
| This is a genuine question out of curiosity, not a fucking “piracy is bad” sermon. lol So here’s what I don’t understand. A lot of anime... especially old shit... was never meant to be born digital in the fucking 1st place. Film sources, analog masters, DVD-era authoring, telecine shenanigans, you name it... Then the shit gets ripped, processed, upscaled, deinterlaced by someone’s cousin’s GPU, and released into the wild public domain. The result? Background pans that vibrate like they’ve had too much fucking caffeine. Camera motions that twitch like a crack whore that just shoved two pound of coke up their nose... and every second the video is thinking really fucking hard about each frame as if it's struggling to translate Nihongo into "Pig Latin". Characters gliding across the screen in that “this is technically fucking motion”, kind of way where you know this shit isn't happening, if one were actually enjoying the shit on an Official Physical source. And people just… watch the shit? For hours? Even entire seasons? I’m honestly, sometimes impressed when I hear people admit they have consumed shit that I know would just looks like crap digitally. Because one notices this shit, the brain refuses to unsee the fucker. It’s like the anime equivalent of driving a 4-cylinder car with one flat tire and an exhaust pipe constantly farting thick clouds of soot, blinding ones visibility even two feet away... sure, the car technically drives, but every second is a reminder that the shit is broken. After a while, one would think ones eyes would strain and their head would eventually go... “yeah, no, we’re fucking done with this shit now”. So I’m curious:
I’m not claiming everyone should fucking obsess over encodes or motion handling. I just can’t wrap my head around how broken panning and stuttering doesn’t pull more people out of the experience, especially when one is spending/wasting their free time watching shit that is broken. Where do you land?
Again I am genuinely curious about this shit... Feel free to share your thoughts. |
ColourWheel10 hours ago
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valico said: Humans are extremely adaptable. You should get it. I mean, we watched fuzzy, noisy movies on VHS, crappy static-covered TV broadcasts, and hyper compressed 120px resolution videos online back in the day. You watch what is available and accessible, and you learn to ignore or tolerate the downsides of what you get. All things considered, HD rips with framerate jitters are a pretty minor complaint compared to some of the stuff my parents paid for back in the day from official releases. “People adapt” doesn’t explain animation complaints. All this shit does is explains tolerance. lol If adaptation solved everything, nobody would ever say “this episode looked janky”. Yet those fucking complaints exist constantly, even from people who don’t know or care why the shit is broken, they even feel it. As an example some of my real life friends that torrent their shit constantly say so when I have recommend shit to them in the past, only to resort to letting them borrow physical copies I own. Once a friend said they couldn't stand watching "Slayers". I was like... "WTF? You can't stand watching Slayers?"... After that I let them borrow my DVDs and they ended fucking loving the shit so much, they even went out and bought the shit eventually themselves. lol VHS was fuzzy. Bad encodes are unstable. One is a vibe, the other is motion having a fucking panic attack. I even still own a bunch of Bootlegs from the early 90s. I can easily tolerate that shit over some crap that was never meant to be digitally converted in the 1st place. lol My impression, some people don’t notice, some tune it out, and some of us can’t unsee it once the brain goes “yeah no, this shit ain’t fucking right”. lol |
ColourWheelYesterday, 1:02 PM
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| you're acting like official home release discs aren't shit, ask a dragon ball fan or a satelight anime fan, noein and the like are unwatchable |
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| Digital artwork isn't hard to make, you just need to be patient to create it. |
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Catalano said: you're acting like official home release discs aren't shit, ask a dragon ball fan or a satelight anime fan, noein and the like are unwatchable Dragon Ball, Noein, Satelight stuff… some could get a migraine just trying to sit through one episode, sure. But that’s a different beast. That’s “source material is broken.” What I’m talking about is when the video itself has a nervous fucking breakdown... shaky pans, jittery motion, frames fighting each other like they’re in a mosh pit. It’s like the difference between: --Riding a bumpy old cart down a dirt road (official disc hell) - Riding a brand-new sports car whose wheels are doing the cha-cha (HD rip motion hell) Both are fucking annoying, but one makes your brain scream “STOP LOOKING AT THIS SHIT”, even if the characters are perfectly drawn. That’s why some of us notice, can’t unsee it, and quietly mourn the days when motion actually obeyed fucking physics. lol |
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| I always assumed the jerky movements of the background was jitter from VHS tape movement. I actually have old VHS tapes of anime, and watched them regularly until 10 years ago, and the picture quality is better I guess, it's more stable BUT you get these horizontal lines, if the tapes are really old the colors will get washed out; and a lot of the ones I see on Youtube are so ancient and obscure that I assume the quality is the best available. I can sort of tell many of them were video taken of it playing on a TV- which will definitely make the colors look washed out. I have never watched 'hours and hours' of quality that poor since at least the 90s when everything was 4:3 and you took what you could get. |
SuperAdventure said: I always assumed the jerky movements of the background was jitter from VHS tape movement. I actually have old VHS tapes of anime, and watched them regularly until 10 years ago, and the picture quality is better I guess, it's more stable BUT you get these horizontal lines, if the tapes are really old the colors will get washed out; and a lot of the ones I see on Youtube are so ancient and obscure that I assume the quality is the best available. I can sort of tell many of them were video taken of it playing on a TV- which will definitely make the colors look washed out. I have never watched 'hours and hours' of quality that poor since at least the 90s when everything was 4:3 and you took what you could get. Haha, yeah, what you’re seeing likely isn’t “VHS magic” doing a jitter dance for fun... that shit seem more like the classic tape + VCR combo fucking failing spectacularly. lol Think of it like this: - Old tape = the magnetic particles are partying too hard for decades. Colors fade, contrast dips, noise shows up like static ghosts. - Shitty or old VCR = the mechanical head is hungover. Tracking goes sideways, horizontal lines appear, and pans wobble like they’re doing the cha-cha. Put them together and you get the “ancient anime on YouTube” look... jittery background, washed-out colors, a little nausea if you stare too long. A perfectly fine tape on a healthy VCR? Stable, old looking but watchable. A bad tape, a hungover VCR, or both? Instant twitchy chaos. Basically, the video is tripping over its own feet while trying to run a fucking marathon. lol Watching VHS tapes would be fucking horrible, if the VCR didn't have a good tracking knob. Like trying to watch an old TV with an antenna and not trying to adjust the signal to get the best picture possible. lol |
ColourWheelYesterday, 1:23 PM
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| Example 1 is pretty bad. but examples 2 and 3 are barely noticeable to me, although I still can see it. Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal steaming sites. I convinced myself that it must be a problem with the source and not the encode and there's just nothing I can do about it. |
ColourWheel said: Does this stuff genuinely not register for some viewers? Well, considering I have no idea what you're talking about... |
| その目だれの目？ |
| I shit fuck ass damn hell cancer notice the shit fuck out of it. It is pretty fucking shit ass damn hell fucking easy to shit ass not fucking pay shit fuck attention to fucking it. I just fucking shit tune it the fuck ass out, shit. |
UhOhFanOfTouhouYesterday, 2:19 PM
| how hard is it to watch anime without complaining about how it looks like? |
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| if by "tolerate" you mean they don't complain about it online in the form of 5000 word essays where every third word is either "shit" or "fuck", then I'd say they probably have better things to do with their lifes than rant about bad digitalizations of old random OVAs nobody watches. |
| I fucking stream my goddamn anime on a nigger-rigged fucking Thinkpad laptop not really giving a shit what the fucking anime looks like as long as it's fucking watchable. If I fucking loved it like a French whore then I fucking torrent a better quality version or buy some goddamn DVDs to add to my fucking collection. |
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Reply to krautnelson
if by "tolerate" you mean they don't complain about it online in the form of 5000 word essays where every third word is either "shit" or "fuck", then I'd say they probably have better things to do with their lifes than rant about bad digitalizations of old random OVAs nobody watches.
| @krautnelson how did you know the OP's post contains 5,000 words? His post may be long, but I don't think it is 5,000 words long. Also, there is plenty of good anime to watch, and the old content is usually of good visual quality, contrary to what the OP states. |
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| Sometimes it's the only way one can watch an old series nowadays either pirated or not. In some cases it's because a series way to watch it was through recorded TV. But sometimes it's just a matter of looking for a better rip if there's one available, usually BD versions which tend to not have problems, but still, there are some BD rips that look poor even with relatively modern series. I am looking at you Aria and Hidamari Sketch S1. |
 MOKUSHI KUSHIMO SHIMOKU KUMOSHI MOSHIKU SHIKUMO. |
Lucifrost said: ColourWheel said: Does this stuff genuinely not register for some viewers? Well, considering I have no idea what you're talking about... This comes off more as denial. lol valico said: ColourWheel said: “People adapt” doesn’t explain animation complaints. All this shit does is explains tolerance. lol Your entire post is asking how people tolerate issues resulting from digital rips. I don't know why you're suddenly bringing up animation complaints. Because these complaints are inherently tied to how the animation looks. This also isn’t just “how do people tolerate bad rips” it’s about why broken motion doesn’t pull more people out of the experience. When someone says “this episode looked janky” or “the animation felt off”, they’re reacting to motion, timing, and cadence... even if they don’t know the fucking technical cause. “People adapt” explains why some viewers tolerate those issues anyway. It doesn’t explain why others immediately notice and complain, because animation isn’t just drawings... the shit is drawings in motion. If the motion breaks, the animation breaks. So I’m not moving any goal post here. Animation complaints are directly downstream of the same fucking thing. lol valico said: ColourWheel said: My impression, some people don’t notice, some tune it out, and some of us can’t unsee it once the brain goes “yeah no, this shit ain’t fucking right”. lol So you do get it. lol Besides, even the raw films of plenty of classic anime will suffer from jitters just as the result of the animation cels shifting slightly during imaging as they swap out layers. I think that's part of the reason why it's easy to ignore the digitization jitters - often times a perfect rip will still have jitters from the inconsistencies that occurred in the production process. So basically everyone should be somewhat attuned to ignoring or at least accepting unintended motion in anime. And this is kinda the crux... you constantly see people bitch and whine about production quality... claiming if animation looks like shit. But those same people will happily watch shit with crushed blacks, smeared detail, and motion that looks like it’s buffering emotionally. Fidelity gets ignored, but production always gets blamed. Titles that look beautiful if the Users, who act hardcore about this medium, likely would inherently have a different opinion about their experience, if they actually took the time to watch a decent quality on official physical media. Which tells me this isn’t about people adapting to everything equally... it’s about what the brain flags as “wrong enough to complain about”. Timing and movement trip that alarm way faster than resolution or noise ever will. So yeah, people adapt… but very selectively. And animation complaints are where that selectivity leaks out like a wet turd. UhOhFanOfTouhou said: I just fucking shit tune it the fuck ass out, shit. At least you fucking answered the fucking question. lol krautnelson said: if by "tolerate" you mean they don't complain about it online in the form of 5000 word essays where every third word is either "shit" or "fuck", then I'd say they probably have better things to do with their lifes than rant about bad digitalizations of old random OVAs nobody watches. Users don’t have to use words like “shit” or “fuck,” sure... but let’s not pretend that’s the line being crossed in online anime discourse. People bitch and whine about this medium constantly... they just usually do it in drive-by one-liners while using colourful words to explain the shit. lol The reason you don’t see many 5,000-word posts isn’t restraint or superior priorities... it’s attention span. Most people either don’t want to read that much or don’t care enough to write the shit. Writing something dense doesn’t take half a day... the shit generally takes about as long as it does to reading it. And the funny part is... people do complain... just selectively. As I said before, Users tear into production quality, stiff animation, bad timing… while completely ignoring fidelity issues that crush the experience. That alone tells you this isn’t “everyone adapts to everything”, it’s what the brain decides is worth flagging as fucking wrong. lol So yeah, call it tolerance if you want. I’d call it selective perception. Same complaints, different formats... and apparently different patience for word counts. This entire reply right here that I have typed in real time... took a total of 3 minutes and this is from am old and broken fucker dealing with severe carpal tunnel that has to use ergonomic keyboard to even type a full sentence these days. eblf2013 said: Sometimes it's the only way one can watch an old series nowadays either pirated or not. In some cases it's because a series way to watch it was through recorded TV. But sometimes it's just a matter of looking for a better rip if there's one available, usually BD versions which tend to not have problems, but still, there are some BD rips that look poor even with relatively modern series. I am looking at you Aria and Hidamari Sketch S1. I don't disagree with most of that... sometimes it genuinely is the only way to watch shit for some people, especially if all someone does is consume ripped shit. I’m not pretending everyone has a magic pristine sources sitting on their shelves. Where things go sideways, from my perspective, is that people have become incredibly conditioned to ignore fidelity problems altogether. Motion issues get blamed on “bad animation”, while broken cadence, crushed detail, or jittery pans from a bad rip just get accepted as “that’s how it looks”. like this guy says... CtFishBone said: It’s pretty easy. I just watch it and have fun. Dude in the above quote obviously has such a low bar for fidelity and that's fine... The dude answered the fucking question too. lol But the shit has gotten bad enough that people are even noticing it on new material, which @GrumbleDango pointed out here: GrumbleDango said: Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal streaming sites. And even when better versions do exist... proper DVD and BDs copies being sold at reasonable prices even used, better transfers, even in the West... It's just a lot of fans don’t bother hunting them down or paying for them. Not because they can’t, but because the bar has dropped to “does it play?” and that standard has bled straight into real-time digital releases. So yeah, sometimes there truly isn’t a better option. But a lot of the time there is... and people just don’t care enough to look, even while bitching and whining about other aspects of animation quality in general. |
ColourWheel9 hours ago
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Reply to ColourWheel
Lucifrost said:
Well, considering I have no idea what you're talking about...
ColourWheel said:
Does this stuff genuinely not register for some viewers?
Does this stuff genuinely not register for some viewers?
Well, considering I have no idea what you're talking about...
This comes off more as denial. lol
valico said:
Your entire post is asking how people tolerate issues resulting from digital rips. I don't know why you're suddenly bringing up animation complaints.
ColourWheel said:
“People adapt” doesn’t explain animation complaints. All this shit does is explains tolerance. lol
“People adapt” doesn’t explain animation complaints. All this shit does is explains tolerance. lol
Your entire post is asking how people tolerate issues resulting from digital rips. I don't know why you're suddenly bringing up animation complaints.
Because these complaints are inherently tied to how the animation looks.
This also isn’t just “how do people tolerate bad rips” it’s about why broken motion doesn’t pull more people out of the experience. When someone says “this episode looked janky” or “the animation felt off”, they’re reacting to motion, timing, and cadence... even if they don’t know the fucking technical cause.
“People adapt” explains why some viewers tolerate those issues anyway. It doesn’t explain why others immediately notice and complain, because animation isn’t just drawings... the shit is drawings in motion. If the motion breaks, the animation breaks.
So I’m not moving any goal post here. Animation complaints are directly downstream of the same fucking thing. lol
valico said:
So you do get it. lol
Besides, even the raw films of plenty of classic anime will suffer from jitters just as the result of the animation cels shifting slightly during imaging as they swap out layers. I think that's part of the reason why it's easy to ignore the digitization jitters - often times a perfect rip will still have jitters from the inconsistencies that occurred in the production process. So basically everyone should be somewhat attuned to ignoring or at least accepting unintended motion in anime.
ColourWheel said:
My impression, some people don’t notice, some tune it out, and some of us can’t unsee it once the brain goes “yeah no, this shit ain’t fucking right”. lol
My impression, some people don’t notice, some tune it out, and some of us can’t unsee it once the brain goes “yeah no, this shit ain’t fucking right”. lol
So you do get it. lol
Besides, even the raw films of plenty of classic anime will suffer from jitters just as the result of the animation cels shifting slightly during imaging as they swap out layers. I think that's part of the reason why it's easy to ignore the digitization jitters - often times a perfect rip will still have jitters from the inconsistencies that occurred in the production process. So basically everyone should be somewhat attuned to ignoring or at least accepting unintended motion in anime.
And this is kinda the crux... you constantly see people bitch and whine about production quality... claiming if animation looks like shit.
But those same people will happily watch shit with crushed blacks, smeared detail, and motion that looks like it’s buffering emotionally. Fidelity gets ignored, but production always gets blamed. Titles that look beautiful if the Users, who act hardcore about this medium, likely would inherently have a different opinion about their experience, if they actually took the time to watch a decent quality on official physical media.
Which tells me this isn’t about people adapting to everything equally... it’s about what the brain flags as “wrong enough to complain about”. Timing and movement trip that alarm way faster than resolution or noise ever will.
So yeah, people adapt… but very selectively. And animation complaints are where that selectivity leaks out like a wet turd.
UhOhFanOfTouhou said:
I just fucking shit tune it the fuck ass out, shit.
I just fucking shit tune it the fuck ass out, shit.
At least you fucking answered the fucking question. lol
krautnelson said:
if by "tolerate" you mean they don't complain about it online in the form of 5000 word essays where every third word is either "shit" or "fuck", then I'd say they probably have better things to do with their lifes than rant about bad digitalizations of old random OVAs nobody watches.
if by "tolerate" you mean they don't complain about it online in the form of 5000 word essays where every third word is either "shit" or "fuck", then I'd say they probably have better things to do with their lifes than rant about bad digitalizations of old random OVAs nobody watches.
Users don’t have to use words like “shit” or “fuck,” sure... but let’s not pretend that’s the line being crossed in online anime discourse. People bitch and whine about this medium constantly... they just usually do it in drive-by one-liners while using colourful words to explain the shit. lol
The reason you don’t see many 5,000-word posts isn’t restraint or superior priorities... it’s attention span. Most people either don’t want to read that much or don’t care enough to write the shit. Writing something dense doesn’t take half a day... the shit generally takes about as long as it does to reading it.
And the funny part is... people do complain... just selectively. As I said before, Users tear into production quality, stiff animation, bad timing… while completely ignoring fidelity issues that crush the experience. That alone tells you this isn’t “everyone adapts to everything”, it’s what the brain decides is worth flagging as fucking wrong. lol
So yeah, call it tolerance if you want. I’d call it selective perception. Same complaints, different formats... and apparently different patience for word counts.
This entire reply right here that I have typed in real time... took a total of 3 minutes and this is from am old and broken fucker dealing with severe carpal tunnel that has to use ergonomic keyboard to even type a full sentence these days.
eblf2013 said:
Sometimes it's the only way one can watch an old series nowadays either pirated or not. In some cases it's because a series way to watch it was through recorded TV.
But sometimes it's just a matter of looking for a better rip if there's one available, usually BD versions which tend to not have problems, but still, there are some BD rips that look poor even with relatively modern series. I am looking at you Aria and Hidamari Sketch S1.
Sometimes it's the only way one can watch an old series nowadays either pirated or not. In some cases it's because a series way to watch it was through recorded TV.
But sometimes it's just a matter of looking for a better rip if there's one available, usually BD versions which tend to not have problems, but still, there are some BD rips that look poor even with relatively modern series. I am looking at you Aria and Hidamari Sketch S1.
I don't disagree with most of that... sometimes it genuinely is the only way to watch shit for some people, especially if all someone does is consume ripped shit. I’m not pretending everyone has a magic pristine sources sitting on their shelves.
Where things go sideways, from my perspective, is that people have become incredibly conditioned to ignore fidelity problems altogether. Motion issues get blamed on “bad animation”, while broken cadence, crushed detail, or jittery pans from a bad rip just get accepted as “that’s how it looks”.
like this guy says...
CtFishBone said:
It’s pretty easy. I just watch it and have fun.
It’s pretty easy. I just watch it and have fun.
Dude in the above quote obviously has such a low bar for fidelity and that's fine... The dude answered the fucking question too. lol
But the shit has gotten bad enough that people are even noticing it on new material, which @GrumbleDango pointed out here:
GrumbleDango said:
Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal streaming sites.
Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal streaming sites.
And even when better versions do exist... proper DVD and BDs copies being sold at reasonable prices even used, better transfers, even in the West... It's just a lot of fans don’t bother hunting them down or paying for them. Not because they can’t, but because the bar has dropped to “does it play?” and that standard has bled straight into real-time digital releases.
So yeah, sometimes there truly isn’t a better option. But a lot of the time there is... and people just don’t care enough to look, even while bitching and whining about other aspects of animation quality in general.
ColourWheel said: This comes off more as denial. lol Like I care if you believe me or not, lol. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Lucifrost said: ColourWheel said: This comes off more as denial. lol Like I care if you believe me or not, lol. The irony, you cared enough to post it on my thread. lol |
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Reply to ColourWheel
Lucifrost said:
Like I care if you believe me or not, lol.
ColourWheel said:
This comes off more as denial. lol
This comes off more as denial. lol
Like I care if you believe me or not, lol.
The irony, you cared enough to post it on my thread. lol
| @ColourWheel I did that because I thought you made the thread looking for answers. It's not my problem you don't like the answer you got. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| Having VRR & a monitors refresh rate be divisible by the frame rate of the footage helps eliminate it completely. |
Lucifrost said: @ColourWheel I did that because I thought you made the thread looking for answers. It's not my problem you don't like the answer you got. Saying “I have no idea what you’re talking about” isn’t an answer, especially when laid shit out so even a twelve-year-old could follow shit. lol Fine, let me dumb it down even more... animation -> flipbook. Each picture doesn't line up. lol |
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With what I said "looking poor" I am not referring to the quality of animation, but rather, the HD releases looking badly made. The lineart looks blurry or with chromatic aberration. There's just something off with how everything looks there. |
MOKUSHI KUSHIMO SHIMOKU KUMOSHI MOSHIKU SHIKUMO. |
Glordit said: Having VRR & a monitors refresh rate be divisible by the frame rate of the footage helps eliminate it completely. VRR and matching your monitor’s refresh rate to the footage can eliminate some of the shit but not all... that’s the technical fix but it can also make shit look worse. That's like taking a banana that is smeared with vomit then trying to wipe it clean with just a paper towel. You are still consuming vile biological waste, might even still taste it, and it could potentially even make the banana taste worse. lol But that doesn’t really explain why some viewers notice broken motion while others don’t. Even without perfect hardware, some brains are wired to flag timing and movement as “wrong” instantly, while others just ignore it. So yeah, VRR can address the symptoms, but it doesn’t change the underlying selective perception that makes people bitch and whine about the shit in the first place. eblf2013 said: With what I said "looking poor" I am not referring to the quality of animation, but rather, the HD releases looking badly made. The lineart looks blurry or with chromatic aberration. There's just something off with how everything looks there. Ah, I see what you mean... you’re not bitching and whining about the animation itself, just how the HD release looks. Totally fair. Blurry lines, chromatic aberration, crushed detail… the irony about that shit too is a fidelity issue, while not about the motion or production quality. And that’s exactly part of the pattern I’m talking about... people will notice something “off” in how the animation moves and complain about that immediately, but often completely ignore these fidelity issues that crush the experience just as badly. that shit is just selective perception in action most of the time, I guess. lol |
ColourWheel10 hours ago
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Reply to ColourWheel
Lucifrost said:
@ColourWheel
I did that because I thought you made the thread looking for answers. It's not my problem you don't like the answer you got.
@ColourWheel
I did that because I thought you made the thread looking for answers. It's not my problem you don't like the answer you got.
Saying “I have no idea what you’re talking about” isn’t an answer, especially when laid shit out so even a twelve-year-old could follow shit. lol
Fine, let me dumb it down even more... animation -> flipbook. Each picture doesn't line up. lol
| @ColourWheel I'm sorry you didn't understand my answer. Perhaps you'll understand if I tell you I never noticed the jitters, judders, and stutters you're complaining about. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Lucifrost said: @ColourWheel I'm sorry you didn't understand my answer. Perhaps you'll understand if I tell you I never noticed the jitters, judders, and stutters you're complaining about. Thanks for clarify that shit. Basically the solution to motion issues is apparently blindness for some. lol Just because your brain hasn’t flagged the jitters, judders, and stutters as “wrong” doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Some people notice immediately, some tune it out, and some of us can’t unsee it once the alarm goes off. The fact that you never noticed just proves my point about selective perception, not that the problem isn’t fucking there. lol |
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Reply to ColourWheel
Lucifrost said:
@ColourWheel
I'm sorry you didn't understand my answer. Perhaps you'll understand if I tell you I never noticed the jitters, judders, and stutters you're complaining about.
@ColourWheel
I'm sorry you didn't understand my answer. Perhaps you'll understand if I tell you I never noticed the jitters, judders, and stutters you're complaining about.
Thanks for clarify that shit. Basically the solution to motion issues is apparently blindness for some. lol
Just because your brain hasn’t flagged the jitters, judders, and stutters as “wrong” doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Some people notice immediately, some tune it out, and some of us can’t unsee it once the alarm goes off. The fact that you never noticed just proves my point about selective perception, not that the problem isn’t fucking there. lol
| @ColourWheel I'm just being honest about my experience. You don't seem very grateful, even though you said "thanks." |
| その目だれの目？ |
| Thankfully most modern fan encodes look pretty good after decades of us learning how to do it and don't have these problems to a noticeable degree, when it's an old dvd source a lot of that stuff is already present before the encode happens and sometimes will get fixed in the process, but it's not always possible. But with stuff that was done a while back you kind of just take what you can get and get excited when something new gets released in better quality. The best is an official hd rescan, (though I would argue a lot of the ones that have been coming out of Japan for the last 2 years are a bit over sharpened, but that's totally subjective) since you lose a lot of the fidelity of 16 mm film print unless it's in 1080p or something equivalent in an analog format, which only a special kind of ld supported and no anime was ever transferred to it, up until blu-ray all home video transfers were a degradation from the source material in this regard. BDs are generally encoded without error, so it remains available in the best possible quality even when it goes out of print, as it generally happens since it's a boutique market. I seriously can't imagine anyone not being able to tell the difference between the actual animation and something that's gone wrong with the transfer, or alternatively even the photography, maybe if they don't have a clue about what the actual animation pipeline entails and it's just a big black box to them, but I think most people can at least conceptualize the difference between properties of the sequences of drawings, like the actual timing, spacing, posing, layouts vs how the camera is moving, visual artifacts that may pop up, what the colors are like, grain levels and such. |
Lucifrost said: ColourWheel said: Thanks for clarify that shit. Basically the solution to motion issues is apparently blindness for some. lol Just because your brain hasn’t flagged the jitters, judders, and stutters as “wrong” doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Some people notice immediately, some tune it out, and some of us can’t unsee it once the alarm goes off. The fact that you never noticed just proves my point about selective perception, not that the problem isn’t fucking there. lol @ColourWheel I'm just being honest about my experience. You don't seem very grateful, even though you said "thanks." Your personal approval isn’t necessary. lol If that’s your experience, consider it a metaphorical participation trophy. lol |
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ColourWheel said: Then the shit gets ripped, processed, upscaled, deinterlaced by someone’s cousin’s GPU, and released into the wild public domain. (Official online releases have the problem too. Watching it with a projector (tubes tv too) or moving away from the tv, and hoping flipping motion smoothing on off on off will solve it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esTLYyaGlZE |
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| Oh the 24fps movie standard is an absolute disaster if you don't know how to deal with it. And it's not just an old anime issue, present day movies are all exactly as bad. There is really only one solution, and that's more fps! Unfortunately the only movie with a real 60fps bluray release was Gemini man, and that movie sucks. But TVs can take in a native 24fps signal, and then interpolate it with relatively little artifacts. Also as far as old anime is concerned, it's kind of a wonder you can even find some of these with relative ease... If you really want to watch something, you can't exactly be picky, even if the quality sucks. 240p makes anime more authentic anyway, amirite? |
Reign_of_Floof said: Thankfully most modern fan encodes look pretty good after decades of us learning how to do it and don't have these problems to a noticeable degree, when it's an old dvd source a lot of that stuff is already present before the encode happens and sometimes will get fixed in the process, but it's not always possible. But with stuff that was done a while back you kind of just take what you can get and get excited when something new gets released in better quality. The best is an official hd rescan, (though I would argue a lot of the ones that have been coming out of Japan for the last 2 years are a bit over sharpened, but that's totally subjective) since you lose a lot of the fidelity of 16 mm film print unless it's in 1080p or something equivalent in an analog format, which only a special kind of ld supported and no anime was ever transferred to it, up until blu-ray all home video transfers were a degradation from the source material in this regard. BDs are generally encoded without error, so it remains available in the best possible quality even when it goes out of print, as it generally happens since it's a boutique market. I seriously can't imagine anyone not being able to tell the difference between the actual animation and something that's gone wrong with the transfer, or alternatively even the photography, maybe if they don't have a clue about what the actual animation pipeline entails and it's just a big black box to them, but I think most people can at least conceptualize the difference between properties of the sequences of drawings, like the actual timing, spacing, posing, layouts vs how the camera is moving, visual artifacts that may pop up, what the colors are like, grain levels and such. Yeah, I get what you’re saying... older sources are inherently fucked before anyone even touches them, and fan encodes or rescans can only do so much. Which is Totally fair. The shit was literally never meant to be digitally converting in the 1st place. But again… people will bitch about animation timing, stiff motion, or “janky” scenes instantly, yet happily marathon a rip that looks like it got smeared with pixel paste, crushed blacks, and vomit-colored gradients. lol It’s like, sure, I’ll take what I can get… but why settle for slop when better slop exists somewhere else? Selective perception is wild which is why I am exploring this topic... brains flag motion first, fidelity second. While I don't personally deal with this shit, because anything older than when most Users were still shitting in their diapers, I personally go out of my way to find the shit on official physical copies if I really want to watch it. So yeah, some tolerate old ripped disasters not because they can’t notice, but because the bar has been lowered so far that “it plays” is considered a fucking win. lol Bottom line... people can celebrate modern rescans and HD releases all they want, but don’t act like everyone suddenly ignoring crushed detail, jitter, and color chaos is some kind of enlightenment. Some brains just went full blindfold. As you can tell by some replies. lol ColourWheel said: Then the shit gets ripped, processed, upscaled, deinterlaced by someone’s cousin’s GPU, and released into the wild public domain. (Official online releases have the problem too. Watching it with a projector (tubes tv too) or moving away from the tv, and hoping flipping motion smoothing on off on off will solve it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esTLYyaGlZE This was already addressed here by @GrumbleDango GrumbleDango said: Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal steaming sites. Reign_of_Floof said: Thankfully most modern fan encodes look pretty good after decades of us learning how to do it and don't have these problems to a noticeable degree, when it's an old dvd source a lot of that stuff is already present before the encode happens and sometimes will get fixed in the process, but it's not always possible. But with stuff that was done a while back you kind of just take what you can get and get excited when something new gets released in better quality. The best is an official hd rescan, (though I would argue a lot of the ones that have been coming out of Japan for the last 2 years are a bit over sharpened, but that's totally subjective) since you lose a lot of the fidelity of 16 mm film print unless it's in 1080p or something equivalent in an analog format, which only a special kind of ld supported and no anime was ever transferred to it, up until blu-ray all home video transfers were a degradation from the source material in this regard. BDs are generally encoded without error, so it remains available in the best possible quality even when it goes out of print, as it generally happens since it's a boutique market. I seriously can't imagine anyone not being able to tell the difference between the actual animation and something that's gone wrong with the transfer, or alternatively even the photography, maybe if they don't have a clue about what the actual animation pipeline entails and it's just a big black box to them, but I think most people can at least conceptualize the difference between properties of the sequences of drawings, like the actual timing, spacing, posing, layouts vs how the camera is moving, visual artifacts that may pop up, what the colors are like, grain levels and such. Yeah, I get what you’re saying... older sources are inherently fucked before anyone even touches them, and fan encodes or rescans can only do so much. Which is Totally fair. The shit was literally never meant to be digitally converting in the 1st place. But again… people will bitch about animation timing, stiff motion, or “janky” scenes instantly, yet happily marathon a rip that looks like it got smeared with pixel paste, crushed blacks, and vomit-colored gradients. lol It’s like, sure, I’ll take what I can get… but why settle for slop when better slop exists somewhere else? Selective perception is wild which is why I am exploring this topic... brains flag motion first, fidelity second. While I don't personally deal with this shit, because anything older than when most Users were still shitting in their diapers, I personally go out of my way to find the shit on official physical copies if I really want to watch it. So yeah, some tolerate old ripped disasters not because they can’t notice, but because the bar has been lowered so far that “it plays” is considered a fucking win. lol Bottom line... people can celebrate modern rescans and HD releases all they want, but don’t act like everyone suddenly ignoring crushed detail, jitter, and color chaos is some kind of enlightenment. Some brains just went full blindfold. As you can tell by some replies. lol ColourWheel said: Then the shit gets ripped, processed, upscaled, deinterlaced by someone’s cousin’s GPU, and released into the wild public domain. (Official online releases have the problem too. Watching it with a projector (tubes tv too) or moving away from the tv, and hoping flipping motion smoothing on off on off will solve it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esTLYyaGlZE This was already addressed here by @GrumbleDango GrumbleDango said: Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal steaming sites. JaniSIr said: Also as far as old anime is concerned, it's kind of a wonder you can even find some of these with relative ease... If you really want to watch something, you can't exactly be picky, even if the quality sucks. 240p makes anime more authentic anyway, amirite? This is something that boggles my mind... If people are truly so hardcore about this medium, why the fuck they don't spend the extra money on a proper official release on physical media to enjoy the shit they claim to love this shit so much? The other day I was talking to a friend about "Lost Universe", immediately I asked them what physical release did they watch the shit on... "Was is the ADV or The Right Stuff International release?", they just said it was a ripped copy off the internet... I shrugged and then asked their opinion, They said they didn't like it. I then asked if it the obvious question "Did it look broken?" they said "Yes". The shit can be bought in their original volumes for chump change these days. I even let my friend borrow my own copies of the Anime. Their opinion of the series drastically changed after that shit. lol |
ColourWheel9 hours ago
|
deg said: this is only a problem for old anime videos that is rendered in 24fps and below because afaik today videos can be rendered to variable fps up to 30fps and more with frame generation aka frame interpolation Except when they don't lol GrumbleDango said: Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal steaming sites. Using @GrumbleDango's quote to now to frequently highlight this shit. lol |
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Reply to ColourWheel
Reign_of_Floof said:
Thankfully most modern fan encodes look pretty good after decades of us learning how to do it and don't have these problems to a noticeable degree, when it's an old dvd source a lot of that stuff is already present before the encode happens and sometimes will get fixed in the process, but it's not always possible. But with stuff that was done a while back you kind of just take what you can get and get excited when something new gets released in better quality. The best is an official hd rescan, (though I would argue a lot of the ones that have been coming out of Japan for the last 2 years are a bit over sharpened, but that's totally subjective) since you lose a lot of the fidelity of 16 mm film print unless it's in 1080p or something equivalent in an analog format, which only a special kind of ld supported and no anime was ever transferred to it, up until blu-ray all home video transfers were a degradation from the source material in this regard. BDs are generally encoded without error, so it remains available in the best possible quality even when it goes out of print, as it generally happens since it's a boutique market.
I seriously can't imagine anyone not being able to tell the difference between the actual animation and something that's gone wrong with the transfer, or alternatively even the photography, maybe if they don't have a clue about what the actual animation pipeline entails and it's just a big black box to them, but I think most people can at least conceptualize the difference between properties of the sequences of drawings, like the actual timing, spacing, posing, layouts vs how the camera is moving, visual artifacts that may pop up, what the colors are like, grain levels and such.
Thankfully most modern fan encodes look pretty good after decades of us learning how to do it and don't have these problems to a noticeable degree, when it's an old dvd source a lot of that stuff is already present before the encode happens and sometimes will get fixed in the process, but it's not always possible. But with stuff that was done a while back you kind of just take what you can get and get excited when something new gets released in better quality. The best is an official hd rescan, (though I would argue a lot of the ones that have been coming out of Japan for the last 2 years are a bit over sharpened, but that's totally subjective) since you lose a lot of the fidelity of 16 mm film print unless it's in 1080p or something equivalent in an analog format, which only a special kind of ld supported and no anime was ever transferred to it, up until blu-ray all home video transfers were a degradation from the source material in this regard. BDs are generally encoded without error, so it remains available in the best possible quality even when it goes out of print, as it generally happens since it's a boutique market.
I seriously can't imagine anyone not being able to tell the difference between the actual animation and something that's gone wrong with the transfer, or alternatively even the photography, maybe if they don't have a clue about what the actual animation pipeline entails and it's just a big black box to them, but I think most people can at least conceptualize the difference between properties of the sequences of drawings, like the actual timing, spacing, posing, layouts vs how the camera is moving, visual artifacts that may pop up, what the colors are like, grain levels and such.
Yeah, I get what you’re saying... older sources are inherently fucked before anyone even touches them, and fan encodes or rescans can only do so much. Which is Totally fair. The shit was literally never meant to be digitally converting in the 1st place.
But again… people will bitch about animation timing, stiff motion, or “janky” scenes instantly, yet happily marathon a rip that looks like it got smeared with pixel paste, crushed blacks, and vomit-colored gradients. lol
It’s like, sure, I’ll take what I can get… but why settle for slop when better slop exists somewhere else? Selective perception is wild which is why I am exploring this topic... brains flag motion first, fidelity second. While I don't personally deal with this shit, because anything older than when most Users were still shitting in their diapers, I personally go out of my way to find the shit on official physical copies if I really want to watch it. So yeah, some tolerate old ripped disasters not because they can’t notice, but because the bar has been lowered so far that “it plays” is considered a fucking win. lol
Bottom line... people can celebrate modern rescans and HD releases all they want, but don’t act like everyone suddenly ignoring crushed detail, jitter, and color chaos is some kind of enlightenment. Some brains just went full blindfold. As you can tell by some replies. lol
ColourWheel said:
Then the shit gets ripped, processed, upscaled, deinterlaced by someone’s cousin’s GPU, and released into the wild public domain.
Then the shit gets ripped, processed, upscaled, deinterlaced by someone’s cousin’s GPU, and released into the wild public domain.
(Official online releases have the problem too.
Watching it with a projector (tubes tv too) or moving away from the tv, and hoping flipping motion smoothing on off on off will solve it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esTLYyaGlZE
This was already addressed here by @GrumbleDango
GrumbleDango said:
Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal steaming sites.
Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal steaming sites.
Reign_of_Floof said:
Thankfully most modern fan encodes look pretty good after decades of us learning how to do it and don't have these problems to a noticeable degree, when it's an old dvd source a lot of that stuff is already present before the encode happens and sometimes will get fixed in the process, but it's not always possible. But with stuff that was done a while back you kind of just take what you can get and get excited when something new gets released in better quality. The best is an official hd rescan, (though I would argue a lot of the ones that have been coming out of Japan for the last 2 years are a bit over sharpened, but that's totally subjective) since you lose a lot of the fidelity of 16 mm film print unless it's in 1080p or something equivalent in an analog format, which only a special kind of ld supported and no anime was ever transferred to it, up until blu-ray all home video transfers were a degradation from the source material in this regard. BDs are generally encoded without error, so it remains available in the best possible quality even when it goes out of print, as it generally happens since it's a boutique market.
I seriously can't imagine anyone not being able to tell the difference between the actual animation and something that's gone wrong with the transfer, or alternatively even the photography, maybe if they don't have a clue about what the actual animation pipeline entails and it's just a big black box to them, but I think most people can at least conceptualize the difference between properties of the sequences of drawings, like the actual timing, spacing, posing, layouts vs how the camera is moving, visual artifacts that may pop up, what the colors are like, grain levels and such.
Thankfully most modern fan encodes look pretty good after decades of us learning how to do it and don't have these problems to a noticeable degree, when it's an old dvd source a lot of that stuff is already present before the encode happens and sometimes will get fixed in the process, but it's not always possible. But with stuff that was done a while back you kind of just take what you can get and get excited when something new gets released in better quality. The best is an official hd rescan, (though I would argue a lot of the ones that have been coming out of Japan for the last 2 years are a bit over sharpened, but that's totally subjective) since you lose a lot of the fidelity of 16 mm film print unless it's in 1080p or something equivalent in an analog format, which only a special kind of ld supported and no anime was ever transferred to it, up until blu-ray all home video transfers were a degradation from the source material in this regard. BDs are generally encoded without error, so it remains available in the best possible quality even when it goes out of print, as it generally happens since it's a boutique market.
I seriously can't imagine anyone not being able to tell the difference between the actual animation and something that's gone wrong with the transfer, or alternatively even the photography, maybe if they don't have a clue about what the actual animation pipeline entails and it's just a big black box to them, but I think most people can at least conceptualize the difference between properties of the sequences of drawings, like the actual timing, spacing, posing, layouts vs how the camera is moving, visual artifacts that may pop up, what the colors are like, grain levels and such.
Yeah, I get what you’re saying... older sources are inherently fucked before anyone even touches them, and fan encodes or rescans can only do so much. Which is Totally fair. The shit was literally never meant to be digitally converting in the 1st place.
But again… people will bitch about animation timing, stiff motion, or “janky” scenes instantly, yet happily marathon a rip that looks like it got smeared with pixel paste, crushed blacks, and vomit-colored gradients. lol
It’s like, sure, I’ll take what I can get… but why settle for slop when better slop exists somewhere else? Selective perception is wild which is why I am exploring this topic... brains flag motion first, fidelity second. While I don't personally deal with this shit, because anything older than when most Users were still shitting in their diapers, I personally go out of my way to find the shit on official physical copies if I really want to watch it. So yeah, some tolerate old ripped disasters not because they can’t notice, but because the bar has been lowered so far that “it plays” is considered a fucking win. lol
Bottom line... people can celebrate modern rescans and HD releases all they want, but don’t act like everyone suddenly ignoring crushed detail, jitter, and color chaos is some kind of enlightenment. Some brains just went full blindfold. As you can tell by some replies. lol
ColourWheel said:
Then the shit gets ripped, processed, upscaled, deinterlaced by someone’s cousin’s GPU, and released into the wild public domain.
Then the shit gets ripped, processed, upscaled, deinterlaced by someone’s cousin’s GPU, and released into the wild public domain.
(Official online releases have the problem too.
Watching it with a projector (tubes tv too) or moving away from the tv, and hoping flipping motion smoothing on off on off will solve it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esTLYyaGlZE
This was already addressed here by @GrumbleDango
GrumbleDango said:
Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal steaming sites.
Actually I see that shit all the time even on the new stuff on legal steaming sites.
JaniSIr said:
Also as far as old anime is concerned, it's kind of a wonder you can even find some of these with relative ease...
If you really want to watch something, you can't exactly be picky, even if the quality sucks.
240p makes anime more authentic anyway, amirite?
Also as far as old anime is concerned, it's kind of a wonder you can even find some of these with relative ease...
If you really want to watch something, you can't exactly be picky, even if the quality sucks.
240p makes anime more authentic anyway, amirite?
This is something that boggles my mind... If people are truly so hardcore about this medium, why the fuck they don't spend the extra money on a proper official release on physical media to enjoy the shit they claim to love this shit so much? The other day I was talking to a friend about "Lost Universe", immediately I asked them what physical release did they watch the shit on... "Was is the ADV or The Right Stuff International release?", they just said it was a ripped copy off the internet... I shrugged and then asked their opinion, They said they didn't like it. I then asked if it the obvious question "Did it look broken?" they said "Yes". The shit can be bought in their original volumes for chump change these days. I even let my friend borrow my own copies of the Anime. Their opinion of the series drastically changed after that shit. lol
| @ColourWheel Who are these people though? I think it's more likely that the people who don't care about visual quality or notice it also don't care about the animation quality or notice it, while the people who care about the animation would also care about the quality of the transfer and other visual elements. If it's just about generalized complaints about old anime being poorly animated, that's more of an a priori conception based on people thinking that animation is like computer graphics rather than anything observational, or based around cherrypicking or very limited exposure. It's just noise that's not worth paying attention to or thinking about too much. Not only that, but as other users have mentioned, sometimes things go wrong right at the film source, there isn't much you can do about that scene in Govarian where the cameraman is photographing his hand during the shot.  |
Reign_of_Floof said: @ColourWheel Who are these people though? I think it's more likely that the people who don't care about visual quality or notice it also don't care about the animation quality or notice it, while the people who care about the animation would also care about the quality of the transfer and other visual elements. If it's just about generalized complaints about old anime being poorly animated, that's more of an a priori conception based on people thinking that animation is like computer graphics rather than anything observational, or based around cherrypicking or very limited exposure. It's just noise that's not worth paying attention to or thinking about too much. Not only that, but as other users have mentioned, sometimes things go wrong right at the film source, there isn't much you can do about that scene in Govarian where the cameraman is photographing his hand during the shot. Classic shit... “who are these people?” question. Well, let me give you a concrete example... people like @GrumbleDango on this very thread, who have noticed janky motion even on modern legal streaming releases. These aren’t keyboard warriors inventing problems out of fucking thin air... these are brains wired to flag timing, spacing, and motion as wrong, even if the lineart is technically clean. Meanwhile, there are plenty of folks who marathon ripped copies that look like they were smeared with pixel paste and vomit-colored gradients and never bat fucking eye. for some reason. They’re not idiots either... their brains just never flagged the fidelity issues as “worth noticing” the shit. lol So yes, sometimes the “noise” you describe is people projecting limited experience, a priori conceptions, or cherry-picking. Other times, it’s just selective perception in action... motion and cadence trip the alarm first, resolution and color fidelity second. That’s why you can see bitching and whining about “bad animation” while the underlying transfer is actually sometimes fucking worse. lol And sure, sometimes the problem is the source... a cameraman flubbing a shot or the film itself having imperfections. Nothing you can do about that shit. But what’s fascinating is that brains decide which problems to care about first, and the pattern repeats across decades of releases. That’s who these people are... selectively observant, some times hyper-aware, some blissfully oblivious. lol People debate about fucking petty shit like story, filler, or what ever else someone pulls out of their ass... and when someone like me brings up a fidelity topic I was already expecting to be mocked from online ego jockeys (not saying you are one). lol valico said: Are people actually making these claims about "animation" being bad when they're noticing motion jitters and fraction-of-a-second timing issues, or are you doing thewiru's thing where you fabricate a hypothetical reality based on your own personal biases toward your perspective? Because it seems like you're misinterpreting vapid claims of "bad animation" and applying that common hollow criticism to a relatively minor issue which almost more than likely to be unnoticed by most people, and all seemingly in the interest of presenting your obsession with physical media as the should-be-preferred option. @Valico Oh, we’re doing the “everything is a personal obsession fantasy” take now? lol Just to clarify... I’m not fabricating hypothetical realities here. There are people who notice motion issues and timing hiccups separate from the lineart or overall animation quality. Case in point: @GrumbleDango earlier in this thread noticed jank on modern legal streaming releases. That’s not my “bias toward physical media” speaking... that’s selective perception in action. Some brains flag timing and motion instantly... others never notice it at all. And yes, some of those people also care about fucking fidelity like me enough to hunt down official releases for the full experience. That’s literally how you can see a series go from “meh” on a ripped copy to “actually decent” once viewed on proper physical media. This isn’t me pushing a personal crusade... it’s observing a pattern that’s been consistent across decades now. So the “vapidity” you’re imagining? Mostly inaction or ignorance masking as indifference. People do complain about motion issues, but because selective perception is selective, they often misattribute or ignore fidelity problems entirely. That’s the exact phenomenon I’ve been fucking pointing out... not fabricating shit here, just painfully observable. lol deg said: @ColourWheel huh? im sure many westerners or people on rich countries have tv with motion smoothing aka frame generation anyway so this is not a big problem Even a Sony Bravia can’t fix shit that is broken. You saying... "im sure" already speaks volumes that you are just speculating. Otherwise you would have given a definitive answer confirming the shit. lol Some brains notice the broken motion instantly... some just hope a TV magic box will sweep it under the rug. Neither changes reality. lol You also saying "this is not a big problem" just tells me how so many don't give a crap about fidelity anymore. |
ColourWheel8 hours ago
|
ColourWheel said: Noticed, but just don't give a shit? Yeah, I think this applies to me. Usually I don't think it's that big of a deal. lol If it's a problem with the torrent, and I think it's too annoying to continue, I usually compare and contrast with others. Oftentimes it's just a problem that came up during the encoding process and can be easily rectified with another release. From my experience it doesn't seem to be that prevalent among newer releases. Though whether that's because the uploaders got better or because the encoding process became easier, I don't think I'm qualified enough to say. lol If the options are "tolerate the minor grievance(s)" and "buy the physical copy and hope it's better," I'm always going to opt for the former. lol |
Reply to ColourWheel
Reign_of_Floof said:
@ColourWheel
Who are these people though? I think it's more likely that the people who don't care about visual quality or notice it also don't care about the animation quality or notice it, while the people who care about the animation would also care about the quality of the transfer and other visual elements. If it's just about generalized complaints about old anime being poorly animated, that's more of an a priori conception based on people thinking that animation is like computer graphics rather than anything observational, or based around cherrypicking or very limited exposure. It's just noise that's not worth paying attention to or thinking about too much.
Not only that, but as other users have mentioned, sometimes things go wrong right at the film source, there isn't much you can do about that scene in Govarian where the cameraman is photographing his hand during the shot.
@ColourWheel
Who are these people though? I think it's more likely that the people who don't care about visual quality or notice it also don't care about the animation quality or notice it, while the people who care about the animation would also care about the quality of the transfer and other visual elements. If it's just about generalized complaints about old anime being poorly animated, that's more of an a priori conception based on people thinking that animation is like computer graphics rather than anything observational, or based around cherrypicking or very limited exposure. It's just noise that's not worth paying attention to or thinking about too much.
Not only that, but as other users have mentioned, sometimes things go wrong right at the film source, there isn't much you can do about that scene in Govarian where the cameraman is photographing his hand during the shot.
Classic shit... “who are these people?” question. Well, let me give you a concrete example... people like @GrumbleDango on this very thread, who have noticed janky motion even on modern legal streaming releases. These aren’t keyboard warriors inventing problems out of fucking thin air... these are brains wired to flag timing, spacing, and motion as wrong, even if the lineart is technically clean.
Meanwhile, there are plenty of folks who marathon ripped copies that look like they were smeared with pixel paste and vomit-colored gradients and never bat fucking eye. for some reason. They’re not idiots either... their brains just never flagged the fidelity issues as “worth noticing” the shit. lol
So yes, sometimes the “noise” you describe is people projecting limited experience, a priori conceptions, or cherry-picking. Other times, it’s just selective perception in action... motion and cadence trip the alarm first, resolution and color fidelity second. That’s why you can see bitching and whining about “bad animation” while the underlying transfer is actually sometimes fucking worse. lol
And sure, sometimes the problem is the source... a cameraman flubbing a shot or the film itself having imperfections. Nothing you can do about that shit. But what’s fascinating is that brains decide which problems to care about first, and the pattern repeats across decades of releases. That’s who these people are... selectively observant, some times hyper-aware, some blissfully oblivious. lol
People debate about fucking petty shit like story, filler, or what ever else someone pulls out of their ass... and when someone like me brings up a fidelity topic I was already expecting to be mocked from online ego jockeys (not saying you are one). lol
valico said:
Are people actually making these claims about "animation" being bad when they're noticing motion jitters and fraction-of-a-second timing issues, or are you doing thewiru's thing where you fabricate a hypothetical reality based on your own personal biases toward your perspective?
Because it seems like you're misinterpreting vapid claims of "bad animation" and applying that common hollow criticism to a relatively minor issue which almost more than likely to be unnoticed by most people, and all seemingly in the interest of presenting your obsession with physical media as the should-be-preferred option.
Are people actually making these claims about "animation" being bad when they're noticing motion jitters and fraction-of-a-second timing issues, or are you doing thewiru's thing where you fabricate a hypothetical reality based on your own personal biases toward your perspective?
Because it seems like you're misinterpreting vapid claims of "bad animation" and applying that common hollow criticism to a relatively minor issue which almost more than likely to be unnoticed by most people, and all seemingly in the interest of presenting your obsession with physical media as the should-be-preferred option.
@Valico
Oh, we’re doing the “everything is a personal obsession fantasy” take now? lol
Just to clarify... I’m not fabricating hypothetical realities here. There are people who notice motion issues and timing hiccups separate from the lineart or overall animation quality. Case in point: @GrumbleDango earlier in this thread noticed jank on modern legal streaming releases. That’s not my “bias toward physical media” speaking... that’s selective perception in action. Some brains flag timing and motion instantly... others never notice it at all.
And yes, some of those people also care about fucking fidelity like me enough to hunt down official releases for the full experience. That’s literally how you can see a series go from “meh” on a ripped copy to “actually decent” once viewed on proper physical media. This isn’t me pushing a personal crusade... it’s observing a pattern that’s been consistent across decades now.
So the “vapidity” you’re imagining? Mostly inaction or ignorance masking as indifference. People do complain about motion issues, but because selective perception is selective, they often misattribute or ignore fidelity problems entirely. That’s the exact phenomenon I’ve been fucking pointing out... not fabricating shit here, just painfully observable. lol
deg said:
@ColourWheel huh? im sure many westerners or people on rich countries have tv with motion smoothing aka frame generation anyway so this is not a big problem
@ColourWheel huh? im sure many westerners or people on rich countries have tv with motion smoothing aka frame generation anyway so this is not a big problem
Even a Sony Bravia can’t fix shit that is broken. You saying... "im sure" already speaks volumes that you are just speculating. Otherwise you would have given a definitive answer confirming the shit. lol
Some brains notice the broken motion instantly... some just hope a TV magic box will sweep it under the rug. Neither changes reality. lol
You also saying "this is not a big problem" just tells me how so many don't give a crap about fidelity anymore.
| @ColourWheel Yeah, but concretely, who are the people(or, where are the posts) that both complain about "animation quality" while not noticing transfer issues? Do you have any examples? |
Reign_of_Floof said: @ColourWheel Yeah, but concretely, who are the people(or, where are the posts) that both complain about "animation quality" while not noticing transfer issues? Do you have any examples? The “who are these people?” question. lol Let’s get concrete. Already pointed to @GrumbleDango from this very thread multiple times... literally calling out janky motion on modern legal streaming releases. This is someone whose brain is hardwired to scream “this timing is wrong!” even if the lineart is technically clean. Now, contrast that with the endless parade of posts across MAL, Reddit, and random forums where someone happily marathon-rips a copy that looks like it was smeared with pixel paste, vomit-colored gradients, and crushed blacks, yet they’ll instantly complain the “animation looks stiff” or “janky.” The transfer itself? Invisible to them. It’s like watching a turd coated in glitter and only noticing that the sparkle isn’t perfectly aligned. lol So yeah, the posts exist... you just are reading them apparently, even in this thread. The pattern is hilariously consistent... motion triggers the brain’s alarm first, fidelity and color accuracy second. People rage about “bad animation”, but if you slid them an official Blu-ray with proper contrast and line clarity, their heads would probably explode. That’s who "these" people are... selectively observant, sometimes hyper-aware, sometimes blissfully oblivious... the perfect mix for decades of anime discourse chaos. And the kicker? Even when the source itself is a a fucking dumpster fire... flubbed shots, jittery film prints, or a cameraman photographing his own fucking hand... brains still decide which mistakes to care about first. That’s the “magic” of selective perception. lol |
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deg said: @ColourWheel i have tried apps like lossless scaling and svp before so i know it works but i do not have a tv with motion smoothing but they are similar technology thats why im sure it solves it too And have you actually compared that shit to an official physical releases to confirm it? Because I don’t know about you, but I’ve got multiple copies of the same series from different distributors just to double-check shit sometimes to see what’s actually off. Sure, what you’re doing might seem acceptable, but that shit isn't fixing shit. What you are actually doing is just making it acceptable to your brain. lol |
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Reply to ColourWheel
Reign_of_Floof said:
@ColourWheel
Yeah, but concretely, who are the people(or, where are the posts) that both complain about "animation quality" while not noticing transfer issues? Do you have any examples?
@ColourWheel
Yeah, but concretely, who are the people(or, where are the posts) that both complain about "animation quality" while not noticing transfer issues? Do you have any examples?
The “who are these people?” question. lol Let’s get concrete. Already pointed to @GrumbleDango from this very thread multiple times... literally calling out janky motion on modern legal streaming releases. This is someone whose brain is hardwired to scream “this timing is wrong!” even if the lineart is technically clean.
Now, contrast that with the endless parade of posts across MAL, Reddit, and random forums where someone happily marathon-rips a copy that looks like it was smeared with pixel paste, vomit-colored gradients, and crushed blacks, yet they’ll instantly complain the “animation looks stiff” or “janky.” The transfer itself? Invisible to them. It’s like watching a turd coated in glitter and only noticing that the sparkle isn’t perfectly aligned. lol
So yeah, the posts exist... you just are reading them apparently, even in this thread. The pattern is hilariously consistent... motion triggers the brain’s alarm first, fidelity and color accuracy second. People rage about “bad animation”, but if you slid them an official Blu-ray with proper contrast and line clarity, their heads would probably explode.
That’s who "these" people are... selectively observant, sometimes hyper-aware, sometimes blissfully oblivious... the perfect mix for decades of anime discourse chaos. And the kicker? Even when the source itself is a a fucking dumpster fire... flubbed shots, jittery film prints, or a cameraman photographing his own fucking hand... brains still decide which mistakes to care about first. That’s the “magic” of selective perception. lol
| @ColourWheel You didn't go concrete though, GrumbleDango noticed the transfer but never complained about the animation in those anime, that's a concrete example that contrasts with the hypotheticals. ColourWheel said: Now, contrast that with the endless parade of posts across MAL, Reddit, and random forums where someone happily marathon-rips a copy that looks like it was smeared with pixel paste, vomit-colored gradients, and crushed blacks, yet they’ll instantly complain the “animation looks stiff” or “janky.” How often do people post both the exact version they watched plus those critiques? That's the part you are linking up yourself. Inevitably some such people exist, sure. But is this actually an omnipresent issue, is there actual evidence for that? |
valico said: I'm aware people notice that stuff. Even I notice that stuff, though it doesn't bother me, because I understand some sacrifices are made when digitizing old anime or watching compressed streams. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about you pushing this idea that people are claiming shows are low quality or "badly animated" based on something as minor as framerate conversion jitters. I see it as you’re missing the fucking point. I’m not claiming everyone suddenly thinks a show is “badly animated” because of frame-rate conversion hiccups. That’s not the shit here. The thing I’m pointing out is selective perception... brains flag motion first, fidelity second. Some people notice jank and timing issues immediately, some don’t, and some just tune the shit out. The examples I’ve given... like @GrumbleDango noticing janky motion even on modern legal releases... aren’t about nitpicking minor digitization artifacts. They’re real observations where motion and cadence actually stand out as fucking “off”, independent of lineart, layouts, or color fidelity. Sure, minor conversion jitters happen and some shrug them off… but what fascinates me is how often people will bitch and whine about “bad animation” while completely ignoring crushed blacks, smeared detail, or color chaos in the transfer itself. That’s the pattern, not some fucking fabricated scenario. lol |
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