| Please be serious? This is a real question! State the fact and how it was a plot hole! Cuz to me Naruto doesn't. |
koleareAug 5, 2014 1:30 AM
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Kazi9 said: All people saying it does are just biased Not like a thread like this will have civil discussion but this is a terrible way to start the thread. OT: So far none. There is two minor inconsistencies that I'm aware of, but nothing much. |
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| This thread is begging for manga spoilers. cupc already started it -_- |
| ''We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think?'' - Uchiha Itachi |
| This show has one of the most one can think of. |
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judals said: highlight them then.This show has one of the most one can think of. |
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| All of'em? Nah. But here are some, 1) The Jinchuuriki seal being at its weakest during childbirth yet they insist on choosing a female Jinchuuriki. 2) Sage mode requiring perfect balance of natural energy. Perfect. 100%. So "imperfect" mode makes no sense other than trying to show how cooler Naruto is. 3) All the dire situations Jiraiya was put in, never attempted to use sage mode once, until the writer decided to pull the mode out his ass. Sannin Battle, Itachi's return. Never. 4) Naruto's age at the beginning of the Genin exam. 5) Few episodes ago, Kyuubi threw Kakashi into the Kamui dimension, rendering intangibility of Obito completely pointless, yet he decided to get out anyway. Question: Are Mangekyou aware of what happens in their Kamui dimension? |
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judals said: Obito is the one that teleported back so Kakashi just followed him back. I don't understand what you are asking by that question.All of'em? Nah. 5) Few episodes ago, Kyuubi threw Kakashi into the Kamui dimension, rendering intangibility of Obito completely pointless, yet he decided to get out anyway. Question: Are Mangekyou aware of what happens in their Kamui dimension? |
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DrGeroCreation said: judals said: Obito is the one that teleported back so Kakashi just followed him back. I don't understand what you are asking by that question.All of'em? Nah. 5) Few episodes ago, Kyuubi threw Kakashi into the Kamui dimension, rendering intangibility of Obito completely pointless, yet he decided to get out anyway. Question: Are Mangekyou aware of what happens in their Kamui dimension? Question is WHY? They had him cornered. Kakashi on the inside, everyone else on the outside, his power = pointless. no intangibility. |
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judals said: You make a good point that would of been a good strategy but there is probably a limit to how long you can stay in the Kamui pocket dimension. Plus that would be risky because if Kakashi had run out of the Kyuubi's borrowed chakra there would be a possibility that he wouldn't be able to return.DrGeroCreation said: Obito is the one that teleported back so Kakashi just followed him back. I don't understand what you are asking by that question. Question is WHY? They had him cornered. Kakashi on the inside, everyone else on the outside, his power = pointless. no intangibility. |
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DrGeroCreation said: judals said: You make a good point that would of been a good strategy but there is probably a limit to how long you can stay in the Kamui pocket dimension.Question is WHY? They had him cornered. Kakashi on the inside, everyone else on the outside, his power = pointless. no intangibility. Doesn't seem like it as Obito kept Torune? Or Fu inside as hostage, and if Obito had a say in who comes in and out regarding Kakashi's kamui, which is the same dimension, they'd not be able to get in in the first place.) |
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judals said: 4) Naruto's age at the beginning of the Genin exam. Maybe I have forgotten something, what is wrong with that? |
danae17 said: judals said: 4) Naruto's age at the beginning of the Genin exam. Maybe I have forgotten something, what is wrong with that? Same age as everyone else yet repeated the exam more than once, so he was eligible to try at an earlier age? |
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judals said: I forgot about Torune but as I said Kakashi might not of been able to return if he had run out of the kyuubi's chakra. Also you have to take into account Kakashi is not as proficient in the use of kamui as Obito.DrGeroCreation said: You make a good point that would of been a good strategy but there is probably a limit to how long you can stay in the Kamui pocket dimension. Doesn't seem like it as Obito kept Torune? Or Fu inside as hostage, and if Obito had a say in who comes in and out regarding Kakashi's kamui, which is the same dimension, they'd not be able to get in in the first place.) |
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DrGeroCreation said: judals said: I forgot about Torune but as I said Kakashi might not of been able to return if he had run out of the kyuubi's chakra. Also you have to take into account Kakashi is not as proficient in the use of kamui as Obito.Doesn't seem like it as Obito kept Torune? Or Fu inside as hostage, and if Obito had a say in who comes in and out regarding Kakashi's kamui, which is the same dimension, they'd not be able to get in in the first place.) Already taken care of, Kamui shuts off after a maximum of 5 minutes, plenty of time to stay and take care of him, with a guaranteed comeback? It's a no-brainer. |
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Obito isn't that weak that Kakashi could finish him in a mere 5 minutes. Even without Kamui Obito has very strong genjutsu which was strong enough to be able to control the fox plus he has shodaime's cells. Also when was it said kamui shuts off in 5 minutes? |
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judals said: danae17 said: Maybe I have forgotten something, what is wrong with that? Same age as everyone else yet repeated the exam more than once, so he was eligible to try at an earlier age? Yes you are right, I didn't remember that. I don't think he would rush into doing the exam younger because he was completely unskilled in the beginning. Maybe he could repeat the exam in less than a year from the previous one? I highly doubt it though. Your other points are good, I agree with almost all of them. |
DrGeroCreation said: Obito isn't that weak that Kakashi could finish him in a mere 5 minutes. Even without Kamui Obito has very strong genjutsu which was strong enough to be able to control the fox plus he has shodaime's cells. Also when was it said kamui shuts off in 5 minutes? Obito has shown a great tendency to get owned whenver people are on both ends of kamui. Whether they can beat him or not is really not relevant, it's a fact that Obito minus intangibility is a much easier target than Obito with the ability. So it's very stupid of them not to go for it, especially since they DID go for it, but for some /noreason decided to "plot out." danae, I recall it was a year interval. |
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| I don't really care though |
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| Why are people calling it a plot hole that Naruto can when it is no different from what Madara and a bunch of other characters were doing before? |
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judals said: As I said before it was risky for Kakashi to do that . Plus Madara entered the fight so that strategy wouldn't of been the best to use anymore. Naruto, Bee etc. would of been too preoccupied with Madara for the strategy to work.DrGeroCreation said: Obito isn't that weak that Kakashi could finish him in a mere 5 minutes. Even without Kamui Obito has very strong genjutsu which was strong enough to be able to control the fox plus he has shodaime's cells. Also when was it said kamui shuts off in 5 minutes? Obito has shown a great tendency to get owned whenver people are on both ends of kamui. Whether they can beat him or not is really not relevant, it's a fact that Obito minus intangibility is a much easier target than Obito with the ability. So it's very stupid of them not to go for it, especially since they DID go for it, but for some /noreason decided to "plot out." |
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DrGeroCreation said: judals said: As I said before it was risky for Kakashi to do that . Plus Madara entered the fight so that strategy wouldn't of been the best to use anymore. Naruto, Bee etc. would of been too preoccupied with Madara for the strategy to work.Obito has shown a great tendency to get owned whenver people are on both ends of kamui. Whether they can beat him or not is really not relevant, it's a fact that Obito minus intangibility is a much easier target than Obito with the ability. So it's very stupid of them not to go for it, especially since they DID go for it, but for some /noreason decided to "plot out." Why not? It was established that Kakashi was more of a distraction, and so what if Madara is there, so now an invincible immortal... and an intangible body? That's not something to go for when "preoccupied", it's all the more reason to at least disable one of them somehow. Also it's not a strategy that would take time. Kakashi's in, they're out. Madara being there makes it harder either way, so why not make it easier? |
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| Naruto doesn't have a plot hole. The plot hole has Naruto. |
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Madara is a greater threat than Obito so it's obvious Naruto and co would focus on defeating him instead of Obito. For the strategy to be effective Kakashi has to seriously injure Obito and force him to retreat to the real world so that Naruto and co could finish him off. That wasn't the case because Naruto, Bee etc. were focusing on defeating Madara. |
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| Obito is equally a threat if he's intangible. It was also, established, that kakashi at his state was only a hindrance to them, so having him there is both benefictial to the team and in order to, somehow, someway incapacitate obito. Madara being a bigger threat does not negate that they can't just ignore obito. Whatever Madara is, whatever threat is there, it exists either way, and having them use this advantage makes it at least easier, especially since Kakashi was only making them further lose focus, as shown, to the point where Kyuubi himself threw him inside. |
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judals said: No he isn't. Even with Kamui Obito before he became the Obito is equally a threat if he's intangible. It was also, established, that kakashi at his state was only a hindrance to them, so having him there is both benefictial to the team and in order to, somehow, someway incapacitate obito. Madara being a bigger threat does not negate that they can't just ignore obito. Whatever Madara is, whatever threat is there, it exists either way, and having them use this advantage makes it at least easier, especially since Kakashi was only making them further lose focus, as shown, to the point where Kyuubi himself threw him inside. was no match for Naruto in BM . Kamui just allowed him to avoid Naruto's attacks. If they had continued with the strategy Madara would of easily owned Naruto , Bee and extracted the 9tails and 8 tails in no time at all. |
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DrGeroCreation said: judals said: No he isn't. Even with Kamui Obito before he became the Obito is equally a threat if he's intangible. It was also, established, that kakashi at his state was only a hindrance to them, so having him there is both benefictial to the team and in order to, somehow, someway incapacitate obito. Madara being a bigger threat does not negate that they can't just ignore obito. Whatever Madara is, whatever threat is there, it exists either way, and having them use this advantage makes it at least easier, especially since Kakashi was only making them further lose focus, as shown, to the point where Kyuubi himself threw him inside. was no match for Naruto in BM . Kamui just allowed him to avoid Naruto's attacks. If they had continued with the strategy Madara would of easily owned Naruto , Bee and extracted the 9tails and 8 tails in no time at all. But you just said Kamui isn't the only attack? And if it is, or not, not being able to match Naruto, as you said, would greatly improve their chances as they could just cancel his intangibility. And again, make Naruto more focused by not forcing him to protect Kakashi, from Madara, Obito...and the Juubi. |
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I know he has other attacks but the point is that he was no match for Naruto in BM before he became the . Of course it would of improved their chances but Madara was the bigger fish to fry. I don't see how it would of made Naruto more focused because he could worry that Obito could kill Kakashi in the kamui pocket dimension. |
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| Again, because whatever threat applies to kakashi in Kamui, is just Obito, and outside, is everything. There is no "bigger fish to fry"... this is war, they can't just say "Madara is more dangerous, so we have to completely take everything else out of account." Like I said, Madara is a constant here.... under whichever circumstance we talk about, he's still the same threat. This strategy facilitates dealing with Obito, who's also a threat, but can be more easily dealt with, using this. |
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judals said: The thing is though Madara isn't going to just stand around while they carry out the strategy. Even in war there are priorities. Madara was the immediate threat not Obito.Again, because whatever threat applies to kakashi in Kamui, is just Obito, and outside, is everything. There is no "bigger fish to fry"... this is war, they can't just say "Madara is more dangerous, so we have to completely take everything else out of account." Like I said, Madara is a constant here.... under whichever circumstance we talk about, he's still the same threat. This strategy facilitates dealing with Obito, who's also a threat, but can be more easily dealt with, using this. |
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| 1. He won't be standing around wither way but... 2. Obito won't be either if they ignore him for Madara 3. I'm not saying they have actively focus on Obito and defeating him while side stepping madara, but whatever plan they have in order to deal with Obito, WHILE facing the bigger threat, would be more efficient if he were, you know, tangible. Ironically the plan happened already so its feasibility is obvious to them. So facts are: They gotta deal with them simultaneously Obito is easier to deal with, kakashi being inside Team naruto can focus more (stated and shown by them) if kakashi were inside It just screams "do it" |
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The plan happened when Madara hadn't arrived as yet. It makes more sense for Naruto and co to focus on Madara first and foremost and ignore Obito for a while because (a) he has the means of defeating them (b) if he extracts the 8 tails and 9 tails they (Naruto and Bee)would die |
DrGeroCreationJun 12, 2014 3:58 PM
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| if naruto had to repeat 2 years in the ninja academy, why is he the same age as the others in his class? |
DrGeroCreation said: The plan happened when Madara hadn't arrived as yet. It makes more sense for Naruto and co to focus on Madara first and foremost and ignore Obito for a while because (a) he has the means of defeating them (b) if he extracts the 8 tails and 9 tails they would die Where was Madara? Iirc he was there. And you mean it's better to focus on madara and ignore obito instead of the opposite, but neither are good. They can't afford to ignore either. Just because Madara has more power doesnt mean Obito can't also kill them. So in order to really focus on madara, they need to deal with obito. "Ignoring" someone who is trying to kill is a way to 100% die. |
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judals said: Madara was fighting the kages at another location before he came to fight Naruto and Bee. I agree they can't afford to ignore either but Madara is after them using his strongest jutsus to beat them into submission and extract the 8 tails and 9 tails. While Obito is busy fighting Kakashi. Also Madara stood the far greater chance of defeating them and extracting the 8 tails and 9 tails. The main focus had to be on defeating Madara, Tobi's defeat could come after.DrGeroCreation said: The plan happened when Madara hadn't arrived as yet. It makes more sense for Naruto and co to focus on Madara first and foremost and ignore Obito for a while because (a) he has the means of defeating them (b) if he extracts the 8 tails and 9 tails they would die Where was Madara? Iirc he was there. And you mean it's better to focus on madara and ignore obito instead of the opposite, but neither are good. They can't afford to ignore either. Just because Madara has more power doesnt mean Obito can't also kill them. So in order to really focus on madara, they need to deal with obito. "Ignoring" someone who is trying to kill is a way to 100% die. |
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JD2411 said: if naruto had to repeat 2 years in the ninja academy, why is he the same age as the others in his class? he used genjutsu or smth |
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tsudecimo said: I think it's bad because of how early on it wasJD2411 said: if naruto had to repeat 2 years in the ninja academy, why is he the same age as the others in his class? he used genjutsu or smth most long running shows tend to have plotholes appearing later on and not in the first 3 episodes. It's like Kishimoto didn't think it through |
| Think what through. What does it matter if his age doesn't match. Like what ''damage'' did that cause the actual story, and characters? I mean I could argue against it, but I don't care because of how insignificant it is. Better a minor inconsistency in the beginning, than an actual plot hole in the middle of the story, or close to the end. |
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judals said: All of'em? Nah. But here are some, 1) The Jinchuuriki seal being at its weakest during childbirth yet they insist on choosing a female Jinchuuriki. 2) Sage mode requiring perfect balance of natural energy. Perfect. 100%. So "imperfect" mode makes no sense other than trying to show how cooler Naruto is. 3) All the dire situations Jiraiya was put in, never attempted to use sage mode once, until the writer decided to pull the mode out his ass. Sannin Battle, Itachi's return. Never. 4) Naruto's age at the beginning of the Genin exam. 5) Few episodes ago, Kyuubi threw Kakashi into the Kamui dimension, rendering intangibility of Obito completely pointless, yet he decided to get out anyway. Question: Are Mangekyou aware of what happens in their Kamui dimension? 1. Jinchuuriki are usually hated and thought of as demons, most people wouldn't want to slam a woman who they think is a demon. And besides, jinchuuriki would usually be safe during childbirth as long as there is someone who is skilled at fuinjutsu by their side. No one could've predicted that Obito would've attacked as she was giving birth. 2. Who knows, not enough information on Sage Mode to make that judgement. 3. Yeah, totally, let's just sit down for a few minutes so we can enter Sage Mode. Meanwhile Itachi and Kisame have cut off Naruto's limbs and ran off with him. 4.We don't know how the Genin Exams work. Maybe academy students can attempt the exam as much times as they want. There really isn't enough information on it for you to make that judgement. 5. Who knows. I was wondering this myself. JD2411 said: Was it ever stated that you have to repeat the whole year if you failed the exam? I was under the impression that you can re-attempt that genin exam as much as you want. tsudecimo said: I think it's bad because of how early on it washe used genjutsu or smth most long running shows tend to have plotholes appearing later on and not in the first 3 episodes. It's like Kishimoto didn't think it through But I'm a Narutard, what do I know. YorozuyaGinSan said: I wonder this myself. I don't get how people can be surprised when he does something multiple other characters have done, especially after seeing him Why are people calling it a plot hole that Naruto can when it is no different from what Madara and a bunch of other characters were doing before? |
MinagatachiJun 12, 2014 6:10 PM
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DrGeroCreation said: judals said: Madara was fighting the kages at another location before he came to fight Naruto and Bee. I agree they can't afford to ignore either but Madara is after them using his strongest jutsus to beat them into submission and extract the 8 tails and 9 tails. While Obito is busy fighting Kakashi. Also Madara stood the far greater chance of defeating them and extracting the 8 tails and 9 tails. The main focus had to be on defeating Madara, Tobi's defeat could come after.Where was Madara? Iirc he was there. And you mean it's better to focus on madara and ignore obito instead of the opposite, but neither are good. They can't afford to ignore either. Just because Madara has more power doesnt mean Obito can't also kill them. So in order to really focus on madara, they need to deal with obito. "Ignoring" someone who is trying to kill is a way to 100% die. 1. Nope, Madara was there, you're probably thinking about during the obito reveal, he came around that time. He was definitely there few episodes ago. 2. Like I said, they can't afford to "focus" on one. And even if they did, facts are dealing with Obito, knocking him back every time he tries to attack, not necessarily "focusing on him or beating him completely", and sensing Kakashi inside as to not worry about him as much, all contribute to said focus. I really dont see how that's hard to grasp. Naruto attacks Madara, obito is at his back, he tries to knock him away to stay focused on madara, cant touch obito, knock-away fails, obito stabs him, he dies. Or he manages to block it, but is now occupied with obito, because he cant jus ignore him, and Madara kills him. Or he'd simply resume fighting him off if kamui was useless and he or someone else could get rid of obito for a while, in order to focus on Madara |
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| Mina 1) and they base it on that? Well it failed, so the weakest link could have been easily eliminated, if they did choose a male jinchuuriki. 2) any ifs ands, or buts to "perfect" is oxymoronic, that's all there is to it. 3) he can do it fast no? Or knock them back a few and do it. 4) yet we know he was eligible sooner than anyone, the so-called "loser". |
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Yeah Madara came during the Obito reveal he wasn't there before. He was fighting the kages before he came. Obito was mainly focused on fighting Kakashi because Madara said he would go after Naruto and Bee. Madara and Obito never used any fighting strategy like that to take down Naruto. Also I don't think it's possible to sense or communicate with someone if he or she is in the kamui dimension while the other person is in the real world. |
DrGeroCreationJun 12, 2014 11:00 PM
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| You're talking way back, rewatch 363, Madara was there and they did use this anti kamui strategy, and it worked, and madara didn't hinder it. It's also common senss not to ignore an enemy. They have to fight them simultaneously. Neither would take a backseat. And that again, is beyond the point. They need to use this strategy to improve their chances, be it fight madara or obito. All this does is weaken one member. Your claim that they might lose focus is refuted by the fact that they can easily deal with obito now, and the show itself establishing that kakashi inside = more focus. |
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judals said: In 363 Obito wasn't using kamui against them, he and Madara were using the ten tails to attack. It's chapter 629 when Obito mainly focused on fighting Kakashi You're talking way back, rewatch 363, Madara was there and they did use this anti kamui strategy, and it worked, and madara didn't hinder it. It's also common senss not to ignore an enemy. They have to fight them simultaneously. Neither would take a backseat. And that again, is beyond the point. They need to use this strategy to improve their chances, be it fight madara or obito. All this does is weaken one member. Your claim that they might lose focus is refuted by the fact that they can easily deal with obito now, and the show itself establishing that kakashi inside = more focus. so Kakashi would of been wasting time in the kamui pocket dimension. It made sense for him to return. |
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DrGeroCreation said: judals said: In 363 Obito wasn't using kamui against them, he and Madara were using the ten tails to attack. It's chapter 629 when Obito mainly focused on fighting Kakashi You're talking way back, rewatch 363, Madara was there and they did use this anti kamui strategy, and it worked, and madara didn't hinder it. It's also common senss not to ignore an enemy. They have to fight them simultaneously. Neither would take a backseat. And that again, is beyond the point. They need to use this strategy to improve their chances, be it fight madara or obito. All this does is weaken one member. Your claim that they might lose focus is refuted by the fact that they can easily deal with obito now, and the show itself establishing that kakashi inside = more focus. so Kakashi would of been wasting time in the kamui pocket dimension. It made sense for him to return. Pretty sure Obito used kamui, kyuubi asked to take control of naruto. Then threw him inside Kamui. Obito gets almost hit by naruto, uses kamui, gets hig by kakashi on the other side. |
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| I'm going to say something spoilerish but obito commented on the fact that kakashi didn't want to kill him... Read chap 629 from page ten! |
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| I can't really call this a plot hole but this is mine. Naruto can't even give a scratch to Obito even in his BM, Minato beat the hell out of Obito in his second try, and then they say Naruto has surpassed Minato? about the Kakashi get thrown into Kamui dimension. Kurama clearly said "I give him my chakra, he can get back whenever he want" so there's no good reason for kakashi to get out, and about Madara will back Obito up or something, even though Kakashi is outside or inside, if the opponent is Madara it doesn't mean shit. and while Kakashi is inside he land a few punch instead of Raikiri. and don't say he doesn't have enough chakra, he done a lot of thing after get out right? that's mean he still got a lot of chakra that Kurama give left. |
tr1ckst3rJun 13, 2014 9:30 AM
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judals said: That happened in episode 362 not 363. In episode 363 Obito stopped using Kamui to fight Naruto and he and Madara were using the ten tails to attack. After that he mainly focused on fighting Kakashi in the kamui pocket dimension (this hasn't been shown in the anime yet). Obito obviously knew that Kakashi and co could counter him so he stopped using kamui to avoid attacks thus there was no need to continue using the strategy.DrGeroCreation said: In 363 Obito wasn't using kamui against them, he and Madara were using the ten tails to attack. It's chapter 629 when Obito mainly focused on fighting Kakashi so Kakashi would of been wasting time in the kamui pocket dimension. It made sense for him to return. Pretty sure Obito used kamui, kyuubi asked to take control of naruto. Then threw him inside Kamui. Obito gets almost hit by naruto, uses kamui, gets hig by Kakashi on the other side. |
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| Why did Kakashi take two years to tell how Naruto's shadow clones worked? Jaraiya had him for 2 years and didn't know this much? The time skip really urked me when Kakashi was still teaching him newer shit... I just found it confusing. |
noonealive said: Kakashi always knew how his clones worked.Why did Kakashi take two years to tell how Naruto's shadow clones worked? Jaraiya had him for 2 years and didn't know this much? The time skip really urked me when Kakashi was still teaching him newer shit... I just found it confusing. |
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DrGeroCreation said: noonealive said: Kakashi always knew how his clones worked.Why did Kakashi take two years to tell how Naruto's shadow clones worked? Jaraiya had him for 2 years and didn't know this much? The time skip really urked me when Kakashi was still teaching him newer shit... I just found it confusing. I'm sure he did but he didn't tell him he could train faster with them until he came back from training with Jaraiya which ultimately makes Jaraiya's training seem less significant. |
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